boooring.Billions of money and they dont make a fancy shiny lightshow. Heck even a low budget movie makes those displayes more atractive for the noob eye.
There are theories like Higgs' Mechanism, String theories. They are mathematically solid and sound. But in science every theory has to be tested. Only mathematical validity is not enough. But those theories involve complex things and to test those theories we need complex instruments. Certainly it will cost more. There's nothing unusual in it.
What if LHC can detect mass generating particle Higgs' boson? Is it a small benefit? Ask urself.
Peter Higgs is 80 now. His expiry date is near. Since 1964 he's been waiting for his nobel prize. But we hadn't any instrument to test his theory. so no nobel prize for a theory that is not tested to confirm its truth.
If there's no Higgs' boson, It may be exciting for u but very painful for Higgs who would have to die painfully. Developing a mathematical structure for a theory like this is extremely laborious and thought demanding. No one wanna see his labor to be wasted.
I dont understand people who think we should spend money on science. Science brought us understanding and progress. Saying it doesnt deserve funding is denying your own evolution.
I'm so tired to read about people saying "How many millions of dollars has been spent on this, why don't put this millions on education and to combat the hungry and bla bla bla" So the question is, why not those people talking about the millions of dollars that has been spent making wars!!!??
This is what about those persons has to talk.
This experiment can change the world! And we can be witness of this!!!!
Scientists nowadays are like politicians and TV evangelists - looking for funds to support their lifestyle . . . and being an LHC physisist certainly guarantees a well paid career. They want to drive around a nice Mercedes in the Swiss and French Alps (where LHC is) and to feed their ego by making appearances on TV programs and by giving each other Nobel Prizes.
If LHC turns out a big NOTHING then they will find a way to justify spending the money and get even more money for a bigger toy.
Ok, not EVERY country has a Wal-Mart but eventually they will. I have never gone no where that didn't have a Wal-Mart. What we all have to do is just pray that Jesus will protect us from science, but that the scientists will develop ways to get Wal-Marts for poor countries. Perhaps hot pockets in a can so that they don't need freezers or microwaves.
science has provided you with everything u have, without science u would be living in a cave "praying to jesus" that the tigers dont eat you when the magical light in the sky dissappears, any FYI pretty much the entire rest of the world doesnt have a walmart so we can tell you have never ever left north america
Are you saying that as a result of LHC people will make a better ligh bulb? I have a hard time seeing these guys as Thomas Edison.
I do aknowledge that thru science many technological benefits came about but LHC will hardly provide people with any viable technological benefits. They'll claim a few small benefits but perhaps the only real benefit that I could see from this is the improvement / widening of the internet infrastructure - which will be necessary to process their collision data.
No, I don't agree, there is SO much to gain from this in technology as well as fundamental science... This is about some 20 years of work! Think of all the medical technology for example coming from there.
They've been using proton accelerators to destroy tumors for a long time (I think first time proton accelerator was used like this was in 1930s) - so it is nothing new. In fact proton colliders used in such way are far less energetic than LHC - main issue with them is the relative size and cost of proton accelerator vs size and budget of a given hospital - problems which makes such treatment rare . . . and problems which LHC does a very poor job of solving.
You say it wont provide a fundamental change to the way we live but even just the smallest amount of data from this collider could provide huge realizations, if this proves or disproves our current physics model then drastic changes will happen, nanotech, quantum computing, hell even computing with traditional methods could be improved since below the 32nm threshold (todays standard) we begin to observe quantum tunnelling, the data from LHC will help explain why events like this happen
The phenomenon that they are trying to study will not be something that we can manipulate and utilize from technological standpoint. They only say that it will be beneficial but that is propaganda to make people feel better about spending the tax money.
It's like going to the moon. Yes, it was inspirational but there very few real-world-use advantages that came from that experiment which would justify its cost - probably the biggest advantage being the making of better ICBM missiles.
"The phenomenon that they are trying to study will not be something that we can manipulate and utilize from technological standpoint."
You are joking? The very reason that you can surf on the internet is because of CERN. The very reason that you will be surfing very high speed and mass storage is because of LHC. The very reason that new technologies will be invented is because the technologies needed to be invented by CERN. The old TV tubes IS an accelerator.
"Sounds like an excuse to spend your money on a "....
Next time you go to an hospital, you just refuse to go in a X-ray scanner, CT scanner, MR scanner or PET scanner. These technologies are invented through research just like the LHC is doing now. Also remove any internet browser since that is also created by CERN.
I think people who starve should get jobs or move. It makes me mad that in this day and age people cannot afford to just get some hot pockets or something at Wal-Mart. This project is really important so that we can make science discoveries and then maybe invent a time machine so that we can take people who really did starve some food.
I think he was refering to countries where .. there is no such thing as walmart, or hot pockets, countries where there is no running water for example.
Also the LHC has nothing to do with time travel, get your facts straight lol.
I respect that you are actually on the side of science, but for all the wrong reasons i'm afraid lol
I sure am glad you people never had trouble with hunger and health care. I'd like to see you all starve to death or die from something curable but not be able to afford what you need to survive. That is all I'm saying. What would Jesus do with a billion dollars....hypothetically...if there was a child starving and you had the money to feed him or her? Naaaa screw it...we'll spend it on this shit. FUCK YOU ALL. What should our pryorities be?
'THIS SHIT" as you put it, is the shit that leads us to the material sciences discoveries we need in order to feed and shelter those less fortunate.
Instead of burning a billion dollars saving however many lives a billion dollars would currently save, the LHC can and will unlock material sciences which allow us to save that same number of people with only a few million dollars.
The socio and geopolitical economics behind all this are far far more complex then the simple example you put forth
For example, the cost has been $6 billion dollars OVER 25 YEARS, split by 23 countries .. which roughly, hypothetically is like $10 million a year per country.
When you consider that the LHC may lead us to unlimited cheap energy sources, renewable and cheaper agricultural processes, cost effective building materials (to shelter those less fortunate), $10 million a year per country is basically NOTHING.
You have completely overlooked what this investment will bring to humanity
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
fuck hunger, fuck A.I.D.s fuck cancer....we'll spend billions of fucking $s on this shit. What the hell is wrong with the world today. Most people can't get health care most people don't have the $ to buy there kids food or medicine........BUT fuck it we'll spend billions on this.
You dont know what the hell you are talking about. These scientists are creating history! Ask yourself whybillions were spent on the space program? Had it not been for those pioneers, you would have no GPS, no sattelite TV and no solar energy. All inventions that came AFTER the amazing progress that program made.
LHC is doing the same. Discovering new frontiers that may lead to revolutionary scientific discovery for man-kind.
It will be years before enough data has been collected from the QGP to elicit any results.
The very first COLLISION (not just beam circulation) ever conducted in the LHC was undertaken today though (Nov. 23 2009), and there are extrapolated images of the particle distribution in ATLAS available if you google it.
That's right YEARS and even more to create the means to better help those that are hungry or lack medical need. HOW many trillions of dollars have we spend over the last 70 years and YET still people are suffering...how about we help them now. We have yet to do anything....I just don't see the pay~off. And if it does we will be long dead (along with those starving kids) before you can say "told you so" HA....it's quite sad really.
I never said LHC/science is in some way responsible for starving people...And I'm not just talking about giving money to poor countries...I was using it as a metaphor...I'm just saying if I had 5 bucks I could go buy some mentos and a coke and have myself a "science experiment" or I could by a homeless person a cheese burger...do you get it?
WWHOO HHOO!! Here up and get the DATA so I can move forward with my theories :P
jasonmathias 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheIxtlan 2 years ago
boooring.Billions of money and they dont make a fancy shiny lightshow. Heck even a low budget movie makes those displayes more atractive for the noob eye.
Csatrad 2 years ago
As I'm watching this, I can understand how the people felt when watching the moon landing on TV.
rickg22 2 years ago
There are theories like Higgs' Mechanism, String theories. They are mathematically solid and sound. But in science every theory has to be tested. Only mathematical validity is not enough. But those theories involve complex things and to test those theories we need complex instruments. Certainly it will cost more. There's nothing unusual in it.
What if LHC can detect mass generating particle Higgs' boson? Is it a small benefit? Ask urself.
mnhtapu 2 years ago
@mnhtapu I don't know. I'd find it more exciting if the LHC discovered that there is no Higgs' boson :)
rickg22 2 years ago
Peter Higgs is 80 now. His expiry date is near. Since 1964 he's been waiting for his nobel prize. But we hadn't any instrument to test his theory. so no nobel prize for a theory that is not tested to confirm its truth.
If there's no Higgs' boson, It may be exciting for u but very painful for Higgs who would have to die painfully. Developing a mathematical structure for a theory like this is extremely laborious and thought demanding. No one wanna see his labor to be wasted.
mnhtapu 2 years ago
I dont understand people who think we should spend money on science. Science brought us understanding and progress. Saying it doesnt deserve funding is denying your own evolution.
humanoidfloyd 2 years ago
I'm so tired to read about people saying "How many millions of dollars has been spent on this, why don't put this millions on education and to combat the hungry and bla bla bla" So the question is, why not those people talking about the millions of dollars that has been spent making wars!!!??
This is what about those persons has to talk.
This experiment can change the world! And we can be witness of this!!!!
francotealdi 2 years ago 6
Scientists nowadays are like politicians and TV evangelists - looking for funds to support their lifestyle . . . and being an LHC physisist certainly guarantees a well paid career. They want to drive around a nice Mercedes in the Swiss and French Alps (where LHC is) and to feed their ego by making appearances on TV programs and by giving each other Nobel Prizes.
If LHC turns out a big NOTHING then they will find a way to justify spending the money and get even more money for a bigger toy.
konman001 2 years ago
thank you....for articulating my point konman001
bigpooper28 2 years ago
Ok, not EVERY country has a Wal-Mart but eventually they will. I have never gone no where that didn't have a Wal-Mart. What we all have to do is just pray that Jesus will protect us from science, but that the scientists will develop ways to get Wal-Marts for poor countries. Perhaps hot pockets in a can so that they don't need freezers or microwaves.
ihavecrabsfaces 2 years ago
science has provided you with everything u have, without science u would be living in a cave "praying to jesus" that the tigers dont eat you when the magical light in the sky dissappears, any FYI pretty much the entire rest of the world doesnt have a walmart so we can tell you have never ever left north america
USNDonahue 2 years ago
Are you saying that as a result of LHC people will make a better ligh bulb? I have a hard time seeing these guys as Thomas Edison.
I do aknowledge that thru science many technological benefits came about but LHC will hardly provide people with any viable technological benefits. They'll claim a few small benefits but perhaps the only real benefit that I could see from this is the improvement / widening of the internet infrastructure - which will be necessary to process their collision data.
konman001 2 years ago
No, I don't agree, there is SO much to gain from this in technology as well as fundamental science... This is about some 20 years of work! Think of all the medical technology for example coming from there.
jnamadeus 2 years ago
What medical technology????
They've been using proton accelerators to destroy tumors for a long time (I think first time proton accelerator was used like this was in 1930s) - so it is nothing new. In fact proton colliders used in such way are far less energetic than LHC - main issue with them is the relative size and cost of proton accelerator vs size and budget of a given hospital - problems which makes such treatment rare . . . and problems which LHC does a very poor job of solving.
konman001 2 years ago
You say it wont provide a fundamental change to the way we live but even just the smallest amount of data from this collider could provide huge realizations, if this proves or disproves our current physics model then drastic changes will happen, nanotech, quantum computing, hell even computing with traditional methods could be improved since below the 32nm threshold (todays standard) we begin to observe quantum tunnelling, the data from LHC will help explain why events like this happen
USNDonahue 2 years ago
The phenomenon that they are trying to study will not be something that we can manipulate and utilize from technological standpoint. They only say that it will be beneficial but that is propaganda to make people feel better about spending the tax money.
It's like going to the moon. Yes, it was inspirational but there very few real-world-use advantages that came from that experiment which would justify its cost - probably the biggest advantage being the making of better ICBM missiles.
konman001 2 years ago
@konman001
"The phenomenon that they are trying to study will not be something that we can manipulate and utilize from technological standpoint."
You are joking? The very reason that you can surf on the internet is because of CERN. The very reason that you will be surfing very high speed and mass storage is because of LHC. The very reason that new technologies will be invented is because the technologies needed to be invented by CERN. The old TV tubes IS an accelerator.
obaeyens 1 year ago
Sounds like an excuse to spend your money on a jumbojet so that you could eat the "free" bag of peanuts that they give out during the flight
konman001 1 year ago
@konman001
"Sounds like an excuse to spend your money on a "....
Next time you go to an hospital, you just refuse to go in a X-ray scanner, CT scanner, MR scanner or PET scanner. These technologies are invented through research just like the LHC is doing now. Also remove any internet browser since that is also created by CERN.
obaeyens 1 year ago
I think people who starve should get jobs or move. It makes me mad that in this day and age people cannot afford to just get some hot pockets or something at Wal-Mart. This project is really important so that we can make science discoveries and then maybe invent a time machine so that we can take people who really did starve some food.
ihavecrabsfaces 2 years ago
I think he was refering to countries where .. there is no such thing as walmart, or hot pockets, countries where there is no running water for example.
Also the LHC has nothing to do with time travel, get your facts straight lol.
I respect that you are actually on the side of science, but for all the wrong reasons i'm afraid lol
mdma4life 2 years ago
I sure am glad you people never had trouble with hunger and health care. I'd like to see you all starve to death or die from something curable but not be able to afford what you need to survive. That is all I'm saying. What would Jesus do with a billion dollars....hypothetically...if there was a child starving and you had the money to feed him or her? Naaaa screw it...we'll spend it on this shit. FUCK YOU ALL. What should our pryorities be?
bigpooper28 2 years ago
'THIS SHIT" as you put it, is the shit that leads us to the material sciences discoveries we need in order to feed and shelter those less fortunate.
Instead of burning a billion dollars saving however many lives a billion dollars would currently save, the LHC can and will unlock material sciences which allow us to save that same number of people with only a few million dollars.
The socio and geopolitical economics behind all this are far far more complex then the simple example you put forth
mdma4life 2 years ago
For example, the cost has been $6 billion dollars OVER 25 YEARS, split by 23 countries .. which roughly, hypothetically is like $10 million a year per country.
When you consider that the LHC may lead us to unlimited cheap energy sources, renewable and cheaper agricultural processes, cost effective building materials (to shelter those less fortunate), $10 million a year per country is basically NOTHING.
You have completely overlooked what this investment will bring to humanity
mdma4life 2 years ago
How many good things can we achieve if we just get together! :)
ulrichred 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
fuck hunger, fuck A.I.D.s fuck cancer....we'll spend billions of fucking $s on this shit. What the hell is wrong with the world today. Most people can't get health care most people don't have the $ to buy there kids food or medicine........BUT fuck it we'll spend billions on this.
What the HELL !
bigpooper28 2 years ago
You spend your money on what you want and others will spend money how they want. Stop bitching.
RyanB0011 2 years ago
You dont know what the hell you are talking about. These scientists are creating history! Ask yourself whybillions were spent on the space program? Had it not been for those pioneers, you would have no GPS, no sattelite TV and no solar energy. All inventions that came AFTER the amazing progress that program made.
LHC is doing the same. Discovering new frontiers that may lead to revolutionary scientific discovery for man-kind.
acnicolet 2 years ago 2
shut the fuck up
euroalbanian88 2 years ago
I can't wait untill the results are in! I wonder will their bear in visual to go along w/ the collision.
lilJ23fromnyc 2 years ago
It will be years before enough data has been collected from the QGP to elicit any results.
The very first COLLISION (not just beam circulation) ever conducted in the LHC was undertaken today though (Nov. 23 2009), and there are extrapolated images of the particle distribution in ATLAS available if you google it.
mdma4life 2 years ago
That's right YEARS and even more to create the means to better help those that are hungry or lack medical need. HOW many trillions of dollars have we spend over the last 70 years and YET still people are suffering...how about we help them now. We have yet to do anything....I just don't see the pay~off. And if it does we will be long dead (along with those starving kids) before you can say "told you so" HA....it's quite sad really.
bigpooper28 2 years ago
What's sad is that you think that the LHC/science is in some way responsible for starving people.
If you think that you can solve poverty by giving more money to poor countries than you don't understand the problem.
danielsan854 2 years ago
I never said LHC/science is in some way responsible for starving people...And I'm not just talking about giving money to poor countries...I was using it as a metaphor...I'm just saying if I had 5 bucks I could go buy some mentos and a coke and have myself a "science experiment" or I could by a homeless person a cheese burger...do you get it?
And you are sad for not getting it...fuck@ss!
bigpooper28 2 years ago
imagine.. if the OIL companies didnt have all hte battery copyrights.. etc..
This world would be alot different without greed and power...
korjr 2 years ago
So it's working, at last :)))
2010 will be very interesting year, can't wait!
TheOfc100 2 years ago 4