@JohnP6617 That picture is faked by Steven Jones just to prove his fucking believes and to show how much he hates America and how much he likes to mock the 9/11 victims.
@MrSupra7 What about them? What do they indicate? Fuel + Heat + Oxygen burning beneath thousands of tons of rubble for days and weeks... and ... anything else?
@JohnP6617 yea i get that but weren't they not hot enough to melt the steel? wasn't the temp of the fire down by the time of the collapse? and wasn't the fire only 1873 deg F( i think thats what i read from nist)? and please dont treat me like a nut, just wan to have a friendly Q&A
@MrSupra7 What fires were not hot enough to melt what steel? The molten metal, if there was any (and there is no real indication there was), would have occurred in the rubble pile, as the fires burned within for weeks. The fires, stoked by the oxygen coming in under the pile via the subway tunnels, would have had a perfect oven like condition for melting the various metals available. It wouldn't take anything exotic - look at what blacksmiths used to melt steel and other metals.
So what is your point? Are you posting this just to say that one website in particular represents the facts of over 2000 professors, scholars, and scientists? Are you trying to suggest that there were not giant pools of molten metal that burned for months? What is the conspiracy with obvious facts? Explain the molten metal pools. Where might they have come from? Don't even try saying the airplanes because that in itself is a ridiculous argument.
@norfids You'd have to watch the video an have some basic comprehension skills to get my point. The picture was presented as proof of molten metal at Ground Zero. It provides no such proof. As to 200 people with degrees in basket weaving, economics or Native American languages thinking this picture shows firefighters standing in molten metal ... I suppose that would be proof that having a degree doesn't necessarily make you smart.
that photo is clearly fake. trust me. i'm a photography and graphic design major. you couldnt get that close to thermite or molten metal without going blind or burning your face. i know because my dad is a fireman and yes, he was there that day.
Heyy this is the picture explained. - This picture has been changed by conspiracy theorist Steven Jones.
The picture originally shows white where the orange is and is because they were searching the rubble for missing humans from the impact the light comes from a torch that they were shining down into the hole.
This is all explained in one of RKOWENAAS4 's videos you might want to look for it and show it to all of these stupid conspiracy theorists :) -Good Day :)
When I see a well reasoned, logical argument put forth by someone of such stunning intellect, I regret having blocked comments. Certainly such a brilliant mind should be shared with the masses. Unfortunately, there are far too many uneducated morons who, unable to form a coherent thought, prefer to use the space to simply display their poor education and lack of spelling and grammar skills.
I wish the idiot conspiracy theorists would spend their time learning about basic physics before spewing their nonsense. At some point Fact needs to be formulated into their fictional unsubstantiated opinions...
@DobeDobyDo - The conspiracy theorists don't care about or want to hear facts. They know what they know what they know, because they are empowered with special gifts & knowledge.
NOmeansnoFan - Look man, all of this stuff you're bringing up is nothing new. It was new 9 years ago. It was looked at and discussed in extreme detail years ago. All the info is available online. Parroting old Truther theories without checking their validity or the possibility of them having any scientific support or evidence just makes you look foolish. Jesse Ventura is an entertainer, not an investigator. Turn of the tube and do some actual research.
think how stupid some people are...to say "truthers" doctored a photos is just ignorant, anyone making up shit like this is not after the truth, are they? Now, that stated, there is ample evidence of the molten metal, there is video of a backhoe removing it and satellite thermal images confirming the temperatures.
Some nonthinking types on here feel that these temps could be reached by just the accepted elements at hand but there is no way 2000+ could be reached by office materials alone.
@NOmeansnoFAN There is no video of a backhoe removing molten metal. The bucket of a backhoe would melt if it were dipped into a pool of molten metal. The satellite images confirm what we already knew - there were fires burning beneath the rubble.
@NOmeansnoFAN - If you notice, that piece of equipment picks up debris with a claw. Can a claw pick up molten material? No. Is the metal in the picture molten? No. Molten is liquid. The metal being picked up in the picture is solid, not molten, that is why the claw is able to pick it up. Portions of the metal being picked up appear to be red hot.
@NOmeansnoFAN - With the fires beneath the rubble still burning, and no way to get to them to put them out, why would you expect them to not be burning at 8 weeks, or any other time? As long as you have the 3 components of the fire triangle, you will have a fire. There were plenty of all three available within the rubble pile.
Good. I appreciate and respect your response. I like a debate.
You say that you believe they recovered the black boxes. But the government has said that the black boxes didnt survive. These would supply KEY evidence.
There is evidence of molten metal. There was a testimony from a firefighter saying that he saw molten metal flow like "lava." There is also aerial heat signatures which indicate extreme temperatures weeks after the collapse, which, oddly was also under WTC 7.
The black boxes may provide key evidence, or none at all. One possibility is they were recovered and it was decided the CVR contained graphic details deemed potentially too painful for the victims families. If a decision like that were made then, it would be difficult to go back later and say "Oh yeah, we have them."
Further, I doubt the would contain "key evidence". What would such evidence be? American voices saying "Those dumb civilians will never know this is a conspiracy"?
There is almost no evidence of molten metal. Among all the photos and video shot, none show molten metal. There are only a couple of witnesses who claim to have seen molten metal. Eyewitness descriptions are rarely accurate.
There are more witnesses who claim to have heard what sounded like a train - yet there are no conspiracy theorists claiming the buildings were brought down by a train. Why not?
Heat within the rubble pile would be expected. You have to think how an oven works. In the rubble, you have significant fuel, oxygen and heat - the three components required for fire to exist. Fires deep within the rubble pile, burning for days in an enclosed environment, would work as an oven, creating heat greater than that which could be provided by the fuels alone (i.e. burning in an open environment)
The idea molten metal indicates the existence of demolition materials is unfounded. Demolition materials would be spent in the process of bringing down the buildings. Such materials would not continue to exist for minutes after the collapses, much less days.
Oh, by the way. I just figured out your tactic. Because most have one.
You are trying to keep the conversation on HOW the buildings collapsed. The fact is, I cant PROVE it to you. How can I? I wasnt there, and people have not had access to the materials. For some reason, Most of the steel was IMMEDIATELY shipped out of the country to be smelted down.
What I am here to do is provide many inconsistencies and questions. These questions are not proof. But logic has to be deployed at some point....
I don't have a tactic - we're just talking here. I am willing to accept anything which can be supported by some basis in fact.
Most of the steel was not immediately shipped out of the country. The steel needed for evidence was retained and is still in our possession.
The fact that inconsistencies exist in a event like this is no indication of anything. There are no 'rules' for such an unusual event/ Even among something as simple as a common house fire, they are all different.
I think there were a lot of things wrong on 9/11. I don't know if everything "they" said was true - you'd need to clearly define "they".
I know that eyewitness testimony is among the most unreliable sources of accurate information. Ask 10 witnesses to describe the same exact event, and you will always get 10 different answers.
Inconsistencies in statements from different people is an indication of *honesty*. When a group of people make up a lie, they tend to tell the same exact story.
@NOmeansnoFAN - What do you find flawed in the The 9/11 commission report?
Why do you rely on the media as a source. Much of the original, unedited information is (was) available. For example, you were able to read all of the firefighters statements, in entirety, online. I have found the "Truth" movement is far more selective in their quoting, to the point of using partial quotes in order to make it appear someone said something they didn't.
@JohnP6617 no admittance by obl ever. he commended the attackers, is all.
It is the amount of convenience for the am govt and all involved that is questionable. Bush's war agenda, halliburton contracts for cheney, a few billion for silverstien. All a little too convenient.
@NOmeansnoFAN - Our inept government who cannot do anything right, pulled off one of the greatest conspiracies of all time, leaving behind zero evidence. Our government, where a guy can't get his dick sucked without everyone knowing about it, convinced thousands of people involved in the conspiracy to keep quite, even 10 years later. Do you honestly believe that?
@JohnP6617 YES. like how Infragard ™ is hardly known about and they have a website. And how many times did Bill not get caught? This is far too convenient. There are many coincidences that make this story reek. The "magic passport" shit is laughable.
@NOmeansnoFAN - Yes. I agree. People who look at the TONS of paper debris all around Ground Zero, the tons of paper debris flying out from the buildings prior to the collapses, who feel there needed to be magic involved in the passport surviving are truly laughable.
@JohnP6617 so these two passports passed out of a pocket through a exploding cockpit through an exploding building and fall 1000 ft and be relatively unscathed. You are so effin' gullible....not to mention Atta's supposed route was undo-able. The connecting flights did not line up as supposed.
@NOmeansnoFAN - There was one passport. How do you know it was in a pocket?
Have you bothered to look at the types of things that survive plane crashes and explosions, do any research at all, or are you content to simply parrot inane theories which lack even the most basic support?
@JohnP6617 There were a total of four passports recovered from the attacks, and only one was a "magic passport" that survived the actual attack.
Two were recovered from Flight 93, which crashed but did not burn. Another was recovered from the luggage of a hijacker who was on the plane but the luggage wasn't.
The "magic passport" belonged to Satam al Suqami.
Like i said, there are too many questions (key word) Im not the all knowing. Why is the 911 commission a useless peace of shit? Why did bush not testify in public? All simple and founded questions. Why did they not charge bin laden? Why was defence a failure? Why did people get promoted instead of demoted? Why are there around 13 witnesses that give a totally different flight path than the "original story." (including pentagon police)
So what do you "believe" caused WTC 1 and 2 to collapse?
9/11 commission - same as pretty much anything else in government. Why do conspiracy theorists think the government would amazingly become capable when they don't believe the government is capable any other time?
Why did Bush not testify in public - most likely because he was discussing classified information.
Why did they not charge Bin Laden? Dunno. What do you suppose would be accomplished by charging him?
You need to be more specific about what you feel were defense failures.
People getting promoted - that's how the world works. Happens every day.
Every witness gives their own interpretation of 9/11, or any other event. Why do you find it to be unusual?
The cause of the WTC 1 & 2 collapses - design specifics of the buildings, massive structural damage, failing and damaged fireproofing, heat from massive fires, physics.
Why do you only look at WTC 1 and 2. There are inconsistencies throughout the whole day.
First of all, you dont say where the molten steel came from. The fact that its there is enough to be suspicious. I dont claim to have the answers, I say I KNOW the original story is false. I cant tell you what happened, I just know it wasnt supposed to happen like it did.
Black boxes? How is that A MYTH? You sir are simply retarded.. You refuse to delve into certain questions and attack others. Typical.
I have looked at every single available detail regarding the events of 9/11 - some so minute you'd probably not even find them on the conspiracy pages this many years later.
I don't recall saying anything about the black boxes was a myth. I believe they likely survived the collapses and were recovered.
There is no evidence of actual molten steel at Ground Zero. It is unlikely there was molten (i.e. liquid) steel at the site. It is likely there would be red hot steel (as seen in some photos) at the site.
There were fires burning in the massive pile of rubble for days. No doubt the subway tunnels helped provide the necessary oxygen. Do you know how an oven works?
In the Chicago Fire (1871) there were no exotic fuels. If you take a trip to the Chicago Fire Museum, you will see chunks of melted metal recovered from that fire.
"I cant tell you what happened, I just know it wasnt supposed to happen like it did. "
What is your basis for this remark? How do you know it wasn't supposed to happen like it did? Are you a structural engineer? Forensic investigator? Do you have some specific experience with passenger planes crashing into tall buildings? How is it you know this?
Like i said before. There are way too many inconsistancies on 911, some of which you cant answer, which means there is room for question. IF you believe the commission report, you have to be crazy. Why did georgie boy and Cheney meet behind closed doors, not under oath, not transcripted/recorded? HOW IS THIS NORMAL? And when the press asked bush about it, he tripped up and sounded like a retard. How do you NOT see these things? Its sick already. Type in "Bush questioned about 911 commission"
Kyle - you asked a lot of emotional questions and repeated a lot of ill founded myths for someone who has supposedly done research on this.
Inconsistency? What exactly are the rules for fires and building collapses? In a planned demolition, months are spent on planning and preparation and they still don't always go as planned.
I don't have any video of steel framed structures which collapsed prior to the invention of video.
You *can* research the Madrid Tower, which was a steel and concrete framed building. The steel structure collapsed due to fire - the concrete portion did not.
Thermite, super-thermite, super-duper-mega-magic-thermite burns quickly. Had it been used in the WTC buildings, it would have been gone at the time of the collapse. Thermite offers no explanation for molten metal at the site days later. Not to mention thermite would be a poor choice in bring down the buildings.
@NOmeansnoFAN - Sorry - I forgot Thermate, super Thermate, superduper mega magic tickle me elmo Thermate and whatever other versions the truthers have most recently switched to in their efforts to support their idiocy.
@JohnP6617 your ignorance is really showing this time bub. To assert that Gage and the like invented an explosive that has been around for centuries. Regular thermite has been used to weld railroad ties for almost 200 years. to think that the military and industry would not have increased the potential of this material in that time is foolish or just plain ignorant.
@NOmeansnoFAN - Sorry man. Thermite as it is used to weld rail ties is and has been known for centuries. The Truthers have invented a number of different updated versions of thermite in an ongoing effort to try to make their baseless theories work. They invented thermite which can cut sideways, they believe the twin towers were the first ever use of thermite in building demolition, and they think it would somehow burn for weeks.
If you're looking for questions - how about the question of how anyone would get tons of thermite into the WTC towers unnoticed by the 50,000+ occupants. Question how a team would spend a year prepping the buildings for demolition without notice. Question how these demolition devices would be triggered.
It is clear you have done little or no research. If you were to ask these questions and research the answers, you'd easily see how ridiculous these theories are.
Instead of asking unfounded and meaningless questions. Why not point to *any* evidence which indicates a planned demolition?
Talk to me about the designs of the WTC buildings compared to other buildings. Talk to me about how those deigns may or may not have played a role in the collapses.
You are simply repeating old, tired myths that you seem to have gotten straight from the Prof Jones schooly. Do some actual research on your own and if you have meaningful questions, feel free to ask.
SHOW me a VIDEO of a steel structure building that has fallen like that due to fire.
DId you see the Beijing fire? The skyscraper was ingulfed in flamers for 24 hours with fires that, from the look of the smoke was much hotter than on 911, and definitely more extensive, and it stood. Type in Beijing fire.
Meanwhile he has a wife and kids. What else is wrong?
Pentagon foogate. Only 2 frames of a video? We know that the FBI confiscated dozens of videotapes. If there was no conspiracy, surely they would just release a full video which we know they have and it would end all talk of pentagon conspiracies. The gas station across the street surely caught the event on video among others.
What about larry saying "pull it" I realize this is not proof, but who would say that?
Defense was a total failure. No one got demoted, but instead promoted. WHERE ARE THE BLACK BOXES? They said they were not recovered? LOL so a passport survives but not nearly indestructible black boxes. Add that to the witnesses that saw the FBI take the black boxes and you got a lot of questions that need answering. Oh, dont forget how cheyney had the ability to call a shoot down order but did not knowing the plane was hijacked. hmm what else. Jenkins, the WTC7 witness, "committed suicide"
The question is not IF there was molten metal. The question is WHAT CAUSED IT, because it WAS there.
So you say no incindiary device can do this, what about thermate, or super thermite? You seem to be missing the point. HOW did the fire get hot enough to cause this, because we both know jet fuel doesnt do this. All of the failures on this day cause me to question. I dont say bush did it, I just argue that the official story is false. The pentagon witnesses gave a different flight path.
Dude. To put it into perspective I believed the original story for over 2 years. Why was WTC7 the only one to fall when other WTC's were much more damaged? (obviously putting aside 1 and 2)
Show me what your pointing too. There must be videos of these "reports" and "facts"
Tell me this.
IF there are FACTS then why is there no official explanation as to how it fell? If I remember correctly they said it was due to fire. Now, Ive watched a lot of demolition vidoes and this one looks even better
Why do I have to explain what incendiary device would cause this? It was THERE. You tell ME what caused this. I can tell you what didnt, and thats jet fuel.
Ive done research on my own. I have never seen a report saying building 7 was leaning. If it was leaning why didnt it fall over the damaged side instead of falling straight down? Honestly, I dont need to debate this. I know the original story is flawed. There are WAY to many inconsistencies, if you dont see that, good on you.
Why do you have to explain it? Because incendiary devices don't cause molten metal at the site days later. They don't cause molten metal at the time they are used. Jet fuel wouldn't cause molten metal at any time either. In this case, most of it was gone within minutes of the plane hitting the building.
If you've done research, how did you fail to read the actual firefighters comments and reports? What did you learn about the design of WTC 7? What evidence did you find indicating it collapsed by some other means?
Honestly, you really don't need to debate this. You've made up your mind to accept wild, unfounded partial theories while ignoring any and all facts. Research or debate would just get in your way.
What do you mean? Jet fuel does not burn nearly hot enough to create this. So that would indicate the possibility of an incendiary device.
Listen, look at all of the other WTC buildings that were closer to 1 and 2, they were DESTROYED but still standing. Fire on a few floors would not cause WTC7 to collapse like that.
Where did the gold go? They said it melted, but wheres the gold pool? what a joke.
Starting fresh - mostly for Kammerz... My interest in the events of 9/11 started with my acceptance that all or some of the many conspiracy theories might be true. I spent way too much time researching every detail of every theory I found. It is in those details the theories far too easily fall apart. Maybe you can look through the past 8 years of the alt.conspiracy Usenet group for in depth discussions. Just understanding the buildings designs goes a long way to understanding why they collaped.
From there, research building demolitions. It takes a LOT of work, time & people to bring down a building. The largest steel framed structure ever demolished with explosives was the 27 story J L Hudson building in Detroit. It took 6 months to prep that building - which including removing all non-structural interior walls, partially cutting through the steel support beams, rigging the explosives, etc. It would be VERY obvious to building occupants.
Beyond that, steel framed structures are susceptible to collapse due to fire. Many have over the years (one steel framed bank in NY collapsed when the building *next* to it burned). Simple logic verifies this for you by simply noting building codes requiring fireproofing for structural steel.
When all is said and done, the best one can conclude is that the US government was inept in doing anything to prevent the attacks. We already knew that.
JohnP6617-I do thank you for bringing up some valid points, that I need to doublecheck certain "facts", but there's too much circumstantial evidence to believe our government was NOT involved. I'm also going to ck out "rumors" that US military planes were ordered NOT to fly in a certain area (because they might've caught the planes incoming on radar), supposedly no windows on the plane, & supposedly there was was a "devil"seen in the smoke,now that type of crap I ignore.
And the BBC reporting the 1st plane hitting the Tower, BEFORE it happened, a long time BBC reporter quitting in disgust because he felt there was a cover up, and subsequently wrote a book. I didn't say only demolition brought down the Towers, but the plane crash alone DIDN'T do it. I don't care if the A&E for 9/11 truth don't have Phds, etc. they have some valid points. And firemen saying they SAW windows at bottom floors blowing out, people hearing explosions...even if they lied, WTC 7? Why?
JohnP6617-for some reason it wouldn't let me post replies until now. Yes, I took some things at face value, I thought Marvin Bush OWNED the security, he didn't. Didn't know the steel HAD been gone thru before shipped off. But Bush LYING, the hunt for Bin Laden slowed down because of CIA director pursuing him resigning Aug 2001, his sitting their like a FOOL in that classroom, he didn't WANT to get up and do anything, he was INVOLVED.
There is nothing that adds up to conspiracy or anything more than the planes & fires being the cause of the towers collapse. Bush was far too incompetent to be involved. Even if the US Gov was involved, they would have kept him out of it. Almost the entire event was recorded. No explosions are seen or heard. There WOULD be loud noised in a building collapse - and some people call any loud noise an "explosion".
The BBC report wasn't on the first plane, it was that WTC 7 had collapsed - and the reporter was standing in front of a live shot of the still standing WTC 7. So a reporter screwed up. Not the first time. She got the building wrong, she was told it was going to collapse and reported it had. Pffft. Hardly fodder for a conspiracy.
When the towers were built, there was a group of engineers who felt it was a poor design and that the towers would collapse on their own. That they stood as long as they did, even after the planes hit them is more amazing than that they collapsed.
Bush not leaving the classroom is the dumbest thing the A&E for truth latched on to. The Secret Service would decide if and when he should move in such a circumstance. The wouldn't have him run blindly out to the limo and a potential ambush. Like I said, after you look at all the REAL facts, it adds up to incompetence at best.
You can be pretty sure the "angled cuts" were made by a cutting torch as there is video evidence where you see it happening. There were no "angled cuts" as a result of the collapses. Further, there is no indication of the months of preparation such a demolition would require.
True-From Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth:Tons of molten steel was found. They have scientific facts. I didn't want to believe it was a conspiracy, but Bush made it clear when he LIED about seeing it on tv the plane hitting the tower-it hadn't been televised yet!
If any molten steel was found at Ground Zero, how is that evidence of a demolition? Demolitions do not result in the existence of molten steel. Even some sort of magic Steve Jones Super-duper thermite wouldn't explain it.
As for Bush, he is either a bumbling idiot, or a genius master conspirator. Which is it? During his 8 years in office, was he more famous for his genius, or for saying dumb things?
I didn't say it was ONLY due to demolition, obviously jet fuel and momemtum contribruted. Why was WTC 7 demolished, at the same time? Why did Jeb Bush signed an executive order allowing him to declare Martial Law, on Sept 7th. What was HE worried about?
Actually, jet fuel had little to do with the collapses as it burned off within minutes of the impacts. WTC7 was hit by debris from the collapsing tower, burned for 5 hours. Unique design characteristics played a major role in it collapsing - too much info to go into here. As to why Jeb Bush did anything - how do you feel his actions indicate a conspiracy? What happened in Florida?
It's not I never said it did. Jet fuel and momentum contributed. A&E for 9/11 Truth need to make it CLEAR which members are NOT in fact actual architects or engineers. But even an engineering student I would listen to his opinion.
If you don't feel molten steel is evidence of demolition, what is your question about molten steel?
Most member of the A&E for Truth movement aren't architects, engineers, or students in either field. Of those that have degrees, they tend more towards things like theology, arts, languages, etc.
Anyone who thinks the jet fuel melted the steel has their head up their ass. 911 has "Inside Job" written all over it. Its time to shake the delusional thinking and do some real research and call for a real investigation followed by indictments and prison terms for everyone from Bushm down
eltuviomio-I agree. And WHY was the steel from Tower 1 shipped quickly off to China? It was a CRIME SCENE, by LAW it is to be secured as such. There is as much evidence that is was a conspiracy as there is evidence that OJ DID murder Nicole and Ron. People just don't want to believe it. I didn't want to.
Everything from ground zero was checked as potential evidence at the scene. It then all went to the Fresh Kills landfill where it was gone over with a fine toothed comb - to the point where individual human knucklebones were recovered. Anything deemed evidence was saved. Scrap was scrapped. To date, most of the evidence is still kept at various locations (most of it in a large hangar).
JohnP6617-I will ck out Fresh Kills landfill, to make SURE it's what it is (I've become sadly a cynic am now questioning ALOT. So NO steel was shipped overseas? Tons of steel we're talking about. Why did someone say it was shipped? To start a conspiracy theory?
Some steel was shipped overseas, but none of the evidence was. The steel needed for evidence went to the NIST for their investigation. The NIST web site had pictures of the tons of steel they used in their investigation.
Yes Tam - the video clearly states it is addressing this picture only. The thermite theory clears itself by being ridiculous and entirely unsupported by any facts or evidence.
Yeah. That would be basic English Tamsu. This video addresses one picture. The lack of facts and evidence are what eliminate the inane thermite theories in general.
I fail to see how people actually believe in conspiracy theorists who has no background in the topic rather than civil and the rest of the engineering community, who you'd think is more qualified to judge the situation....
It's easy to see how people believe unsupportable conspiracy theories when you consider the amazing ignorance of large numbers of the general population.
JohnP6617-I don't consider myself ignorant. I went to college, I read, when they have firefighters stating they saw molten steel, windows blowing out AT THE BOTTOM, even if some of the other theories I've heard are BS, there is enough strange questionable evidence to believe it WAS a conspiracy. For 1, Bush LIED! He couldn't have seen it on tv, it wasn't televised yet! Explain that? And BBC reporting before it happend? The CIA director RESIGNED 8/11, who was after Bin Laden. Coincidence?
I don't consider you ignorant either. Just take the time to research the Truth Movement's claims and you will see they fall apart very quickly. What would molten metal at the site indicate? Why would the windows blow out? How would a demolition team spend 12 months rigging the buildings without any of the 50,000 occupants noticing?
xPBJ-Then why did Bush say he found about the plane hitting the towers ON TV, when it hadn't been televised yet? He lies and admits he did. Why didn't he immediately leave that Florida classroom? Why did the director of the CIA abruptly "quit" in August 2001? His main mission? Pursuing Bin Laden. Marvin BUSH owned security at the towers, strange evacuations were done prior to 9/11.Look what is on $, esp the 20 VERY strange. AE for 911 Truth- 400Architects & Engineers found the proof.
Not enough room to explain it all here. Bush question answered above. He wouldn't have left the school or done anything else on his own. He goes where the Secret Service tells him. As a security measure they wouldn't move him out of there immediately, as that would be potentially expected and a possible ambush. First they would check the area and departure route to be sure it was clear.
Marvin Bush did not at any time ever own Securacom. He worked there for a time, but left 2 years before the attacks. Security at the towers was run by the Port Authority of NY. Securacom had a maintenance contract with them for security equipment..
There were no "strange evacuations"
When you check the conspiracy theorists "facts", they fall apart. If there was a conspiracy, why do they need to lie? Why not just offer genuine proof?
The members of truth movement are almost all NOT engineers or architects. Look up their membership and the degrees they hold. Most scholars have abandoned Prof Jones because his theories are so highly ridiculous. He claims iron oxide & aluminum are proof of explosives. Might it be proof the buildings were made of iron & clad with aluminum?
Now you know damn well Bush can give people super powers, he's all knowing and all powerful.......er except when he's a bumbling idiot.......but then sometimes I need him to be a mad genius. Dammit, don't burst my bubble, only a conspiracy of thousands of people could be kept quiet......um......well whatever.
These observations reminded us of nano-thermite fabricated at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and elsewhere; available papers describe this material as an intimate mixture of UFG[Ultra-fine grain] aluminum and iron oxide in nano-thermite composites to form pyrotechnics or explosives."
Could you please prove that flouride is good to ingest, or that billions of $ were not made on this day, or that Bin laden is wanted for this act according to the FBI, because I can't seem to find it. A lot of the kooks you speak of are people who lost friends and famly on that day by the way and know that something doesn't fit. You would see it to if you weren't so brain washed and apathetic. If you lost someone on 9/11, you are not doing them a favor and if you didn't then shut up.
Sorry Ham. I can't give you an IQ or common sense. Your repetition of disproved 9/11 myths suggests, at best, your abilities to parrot inane ideas. If you can't be bothered to do any actual research, then shut up.
All I'm saying is that you should quite making pointless videos and get back to your corporate dick sucking. If this is the best you can come up with then maybe you need to get off the flouride water. If the government didn't do it, then they let it happen. Either way you're a slave. enjoy the police state moron.
Ham. The video had a point years ago. Morons were using it as evidence of thermite at ground zero. It is not evidence of thermite at ground zero. That was the point. It doesn't have anything to do with who did it or who let it happen - it has to do with morons who are unable to analyze evidence with any amount of common sense.
Funny how you can't refute his points so you resort to ad hominem attacks instead. Either way you're a slave to your own idiocy. Enjoy having the IQ of a chimp, chump.
...and anyhow, how would the steel stay molten even HOURS after it was "melted"? Even if it were melted at the time of the colapse, wouldn't it have cooled and hardened by the time the emergency crew got to it?
They're not using a cutting torch. The glow is from a high powered light. The photo that was shown in the video was doctored by the so called truth movement. They changed the white glow to orange. I'm uploading a video response showing the original photo as well as video, make sure you watch it to get the truth.
The rest of the video? I made the video. That's all there is. I got the picture off a conspiracy kook site and made a video to show how foolish it was for them to try to use it as "proof" of molten metal at Ground Zero.
no, he is right. the image has been proved to have been doctored. they are gathered around a WHITE light. this is from footage of firefighters diggin for survivors around a bright lamp.
this tend to be about the best truthers can do for "evidence"
look for the 9/11 conspiracies debunked vids to see the original footage
this picture was taken from a video of firefighters working on the pile, trying to find survivors.
the picture here has been doctored to show a bright white light, as bright orange, so as to fool simple minded truthers into joining the alex jones religious cult
If you look closely, you'll realize that the one fire fighter outlined in blue is in exactly the same position as the other two fire fighters that are obviously on their knees in the same EXACT position with very similar if not identical body posture.
Think of a clock..the fire fighters at 6 o'clock, 4 o'clock, and 8 o'clock are all in the same position with the same posture.
The fire fighters at 10 and 11 o'clock are either on their knees or are significantly shorter than your average adult.
obviously not moron, the molton steel is below the piles. you didnt adress what kept the pile over 1000 degrees for monthes.
probly just the hot air of new yorkers, right moron? tell us who was standing below the pile inside the "foundry like conditions" according to a firefighter, even pataki himself said molton steel. your coincedence theory morons cant even keep your own story straight. pathetic pt2
So, English is a second language for you Draftsman? Let's try again. Sound out the words, or have someone literate read this to you. *This* video addresses the use of *this* picture as "proof" of molten metal. Either this picture shows fireman standing in molten metal, or, this picture offers no proof of molten metal. Period. Since you admit to supporting my thought that these fireman are *not* standing in molten metal, you and I obviously agree. Why do you act as though we don't?
so the gov of new york lied when he took the news people to ground zero and talked about the molton steel and the furnace raging beneath the pile for monthes? we dont know what caused that.. blah blah.. nasa thermal images, over 1300 degrees in november under 1,2 and 7. nasa lied too.. pathetic video
You're obviously easily confused CD. If you watch the video, you might note it addresses the fact that people have used *this* photo as proof of molten steel. Do you *really* think those fireman are standing in molten steel?
This is not the evidence the most esteemed 911 Truth researchers put forward as evidence. Stick to Steven Jones' talks on youtube if you want the real scientific 911 info.
Bill... you need to take that act on the road. I haven't laughed that hard in a very long time. Very clever using "esteemed" and the disgraced, debunked Prof Jones in the same sentence is pure comedy magic!
Mitch... I appreciate you providing an example of what happens when people refuse to take advantage of our education system. The good news is, just as you have chosen ignorance, you can choose to change and become a functioning member of society.
Correct Zap, there is more to it than this picture. The video addresses the issue of the kooks need to lie and misrepresent to support their theories. There just isn't much truth to the "truth" movement.
Are you suggesting that the firefighters are lying? Why would they make something like that up in the wake of this countries biggest catastrophe? They had nothing to gain.
I see literacy is not your strong point Zap. I am not suggesting, but rather clearly stating that *this picture* does nothing to offer 'proof' of molten metal. How high an IQ does one need to realize firefighters cannot be standing in molten metal?
If it was running down channels, it is not likely that it was steel. Lead, brass or copper, maybe. You find these things melted in any large structural fire. Not steel. Steell that glows red is stationary. It's more like white or yellow when it flows.
Thermite would not burn for more than seconds or minutes. To burn for days, the charge would have to have weighed toins and would have left an iron pig the size of a typical office building.
Molten steel would not "flow like lava" for any great distance. It solidifies verty quickly. I think you may be referring to two or three fire ighters who were under WTC 6. There would likely have been molten lead and brass down there from all the ammunition in the building. If it were hot enough in there for steel to flow, I don't think, based on my experience as a fire fighter and occassional foundry worker, that they would have said much later about much of anything. POOF!
too bad all the evidence was wisked away just like some $100 billion in american gold.. just like fort knox... pearl harbor... gulf of tonkin.. the sinking of lusitania.. the murder of jfk, rfk, jfk jr, etc....
WTC is a murder case, iraq is a genocide and the truth will always remain...
those that have sold their souls for material gains are mistaken....
Creator - The evidence was whisked away over a period of 8 months. A large body of it is stored in a hangar at JFK. Still more of it remains with NIST. None of the other incidents you mention have anything to do with the physical evidence which clearly shows 9/11 was the result of 19 hijackers, 4 planes, and nothing more.
Regardless of the exposure, there are 2 fireman standing in the hole. One of them is diggin from the hole with a shovel. 2 more are leaning into the hole. If there were molten steel in that hole, you'd have at least 4 cooked firefighters.
Nervouss - Loose Change is a joke, even among alternate conspiracy theorists. Zeitgeist looks like a cool flick - very well made, awesome imagery. I haven't watched it all (the first 20 minutes), I don't see it supporting alternate conspiracy theories on 9/11/
its a light you fucking idiots
KingChron621 3 months ago
its impossible to stand near your oven when its at 400F. truthers make a fake picture as if fire fighters can stand in a 3,000F molten steel
taledarkside 8 months ago 3
@JohnP6617 That picture is faked by Steven Jones just to prove his fucking believes and to show how much he hates America and how much he likes to mock the 9/11 victims.
Take a lok at this video and skip to 1:43
/watch?v=7YXzjAKJQOg&feature=channel_video_title
MacGyver920 9 months ago 2
Fake picture!
MacGyver920 9 months ago
@MacGyver920 - Yup. If you click the play button, you see that's the point I am making. Thanks for playing anyway though.
JohnP6617 9 months ago
i understand this was faked but what about the real molten pools?
MrSupra7 11 months ago
@MrSupra7 What about them? What do they indicate? Fuel + Heat + Oxygen burning beneath thousands of tons of rubble for days and weeks... and ... anything else?
JohnP6617 11 months ago
@JohnP6617 yea i get that but weren't they not hot enough to melt the steel? wasn't the temp of the fire down by the time of the collapse? and wasn't the fire only 1873 deg F( i think thats what i read from nist)? and please dont treat me like a nut, just wan to have a friendly Q&A
MrSupra7 11 months ago
@MrSupra7 What fires were not hot enough to melt what steel? The molten metal, if there was any (and there is no real indication there was), would have occurred in the rubble pile, as the fires burned within for weeks. The fires, stoked by the oxygen coming in under the pile via the subway tunnels, would have had a perfect oven like condition for melting the various metals available. It wouldn't take anything exotic - look at what blacksmiths used to melt steel and other metals.
JohnP6617 11 months ago
So what is your point? Are you posting this just to say that one website in particular represents the facts of over 2000 professors, scholars, and scientists? Are you trying to suggest that there were not giant pools of molten metal that burned for months? What is the conspiracy with obvious facts? Explain the molten metal pools. Where might they have come from? Don't even try saying the airplanes because that in itself is a ridiculous argument.
norfids 11 months ago
@norfids You'd have to watch the video an have some basic comprehension skills to get my point. The picture was presented as proof of molten metal at Ground Zero. It provides no such proof. As to 200 people with degrees in basket weaving, economics or Native American languages thinking this picture shows firefighters standing in molten metal ... I suppose that would be proof that having a degree doesn't necessarily make you smart.
JohnP6617 11 months ago 3
that photo is clearly fake. trust me. i'm a photography and graphic design major. you couldnt get that close to thermite or molten metal without going blind or burning your face. i know because my dad is a fireman and yes, he was there that day.
kare2comment 1 year ago
They're staring into hell and satan is telling them to come down for a cold drink!
lute760 1 year ago
Heyy this is the picture explained. - This picture has been changed by conspiracy theorist Steven Jones.
The picture originally shows white where the orange is and is because they were searching the rubble for missing humans from the impact the light comes from a torch that they were shining down into the hole.
This is all explained in one of RKOWENAAS4 's videos you might want to look for it and show it to all of these stupid conspiracy theorists :) -Good Day :)
Mikeeyy100 1 year ago
OMARLIVES sent the following via private message
You're a hero?!
good idea to block comments to ur stupid debunking videos. ur a real class act. and ur definitely open to debates. NOT!! fucking pussy!!
JohnP6617 1 year ago
My response was:
When I see a well reasoned, logical argument put forth by someone of such stunning intellect, I regret having blocked comments. Certainly such a brilliant mind should be shared with the masses. Unfortunately, there are far too many uneducated morons who, unable to form a coherent thought, prefer to use the space to simply display their poor education and lack of spelling and grammar skills.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 oh and about my last comment i put the username wrong it should be RKOWENS4 :) -Good Day :)
Mikeeyy100 1 year ago
I wish the idiot conspiracy theorists would spend their time learning about basic physics before spewing their nonsense. At some point Fact needs to be formulated into their fictional unsubstantiated opinions...
DobeDobyDo 1 year ago 2
@DobeDobyDo - The conspiracy theorists don't care about or want to hear facts. They know what they know what they know, because they are empowered with special gifts & knowledge.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
NOmeansnoFan - Look man, all of this stuff you're bringing up is nothing new. It was new 9 years ago. It was looked at and discussed in extreme detail years ago. All the info is available online. Parroting old Truther theories without checking their validity or the possibility of them having any scientific support or evidence just makes you look foolish. Jesse Ventura is an entertainer, not an investigator. Turn of the tube and do some actual research.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
think how stupid some people are...to say "truthers" doctored a photos is just ignorant, anyone making up shit like this is not after the truth, are they? Now, that stated, there is ample evidence of the molten metal, there is video of a backhoe removing it and satellite thermal images confirming the temperatures.
Some nonthinking types on here feel that these temps could be reached by just the accepted elements at hand but there is no way 2000+ could be reached by office materials alone.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN There is no video of a backhoe removing molten metal. The bucket of a backhoe would melt if it were dipped into a pool of molten metal. The satellite images confirm what we already knew - there were fires burning beneath the rubble.
JohnP6617 1 year ago 3
@JohnP6617 tiny(DOT)cc/bfre5o0u1f
I am imagining things?
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - I don't know. Are you? Where did you see a video of a backhoe with a bucket full of molten metal? Got a link?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - I see a pic, no video. The pic you provided shows neither a backhoe, nor molten metal. Molten metal is a liquid.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 uhmmm, yeah not a backhoe but some type of like equipment and dripping steel...is that not molten?
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - If you notice, that piece of equipment picks up debris with a claw. Can a claw pick up molten material? No. Is the metal in the picture molten? No. Molten is liquid. The metal being picked up in the picture is solid, not molten, that is why the claw is able to pick it up. Portions of the metal being picked up appear to be red hot.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
wow...this is stupid...id love to see firemans boot that can withstand close to 5000 degrees
zooders 1 year ago
@zooders watch:
DUBDUBDUB(DOT)liveleak(DOT)com/view?i=38c_1182860754
They state in this vid 8 weeks after the temp is still 1100 f and the boots are melting quickly. EIGHT WEEKS!
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - With the fires beneath the rubble still burning, and no way to get to them to put them out, why would you expect them to not be burning at 8 weeks, or any other time? As long as you have the 3 components of the fire triangle, you will have a fire. There were plenty of all three available within the rubble pile.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Good. I appreciate and respect your response. I like a debate.
You say that you believe they recovered the black boxes. But the government has said that the black boxes didnt survive. These would supply KEY evidence.
There is evidence of molten metal. There was a testimony from a firefighter saying that he saw molten metal flow like "lava." There is also aerial heat signatures which indicate extreme temperatures weeks after the collapse, which, oddly was also under WTC 7.
kyle87t 1 year ago
The black boxes may provide key evidence, or none at all. One possibility is they were recovered and it was decided the CVR contained graphic details deemed potentially too painful for the victims families. If a decision like that were made then, it would be difficult to go back later and say "Oh yeah, we have them."
Further, I doubt the would contain "key evidence". What would such evidence be? American voices saying "Those dumb civilians will never know this is a conspiracy"?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
There is almost no evidence of molten metal. Among all the photos and video shot, none show molten metal. There are only a couple of witnesses who claim to have seen molten metal. Eyewitness descriptions are rarely accurate.
There are more witnesses who claim to have heard what sounded like a train - yet there are no conspiracy theorists claiming the buildings were brought down by a train. Why not?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Heat within the rubble pile would be expected. You have to think how an oven works. In the rubble, you have significant fuel, oxygen and heat - the three components required for fire to exist. Fires deep within the rubble pile, burning for days in an enclosed environment, would work as an oven, creating heat greater than that which could be provided by the fuels alone (i.e. burning in an open environment)
JohnP6617 1 year ago
The idea molten metal indicates the existence of demolition materials is unfounded. Demolition materials would be spent in the process of bringing down the buildings. Such materials would not continue to exist for minutes after the collapses, much less days.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Oh, by the way. I just figured out your tactic. Because most have one.
You are trying to keep the conversation on HOW the buildings collapsed. The fact is, I cant PROVE it to you. How can I? I wasnt there, and people have not had access to the materials. For some reason, Most of the steel was IMMEDIATELY shipped out of the country to be smelted down.
What I am here to do is provide many inconsistencies and questions. These questions are not proof. But logic has to be deployed at some point....
kyle87t 1 year ago
I don't have a tactic - we're just talking here. I am willing to accept anything which can be supported by some basis in fact.
Most of the steel was not immediately shipped out of the country. The steel needed for evidence was retained and is still in our possession.
The fact that inconsistencies exist in a event like this is no indication of anything. There are no 'rules' for such an unusual event/ Even among something as simple as a common house fire, they are all different.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
So let me get your perspective on things. Dont get me wrong, I love a debate, as long as there are no petty tactics used.
You think there was NOTHING wrong on september 11 and EVERYTHING that they said happened was true?
Do you think the war was justified? Do you think Bin Laden was behind it?
Do you think there are NEVER government conspiracies and false flags?
kyle87t 1 year ago
I think there were a lot of things wrong on 9/11. I don't know if everything "they" said was true - you'd need to clearly define "they".
I know that eyewitness testimony is among the most unreliable sources of accurate information. Ask 10 witnesses to describe the same exact event, and you will always get 10 different answers.
Inconsistencies in statements from different people is an indication of *honesty*. When a group of people make up a lie, they tend to tell the same exact story.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 obviously the 911 commission....oh the games you play.
You are spot on about eyewitnesses though, and the media hand picked the ones to keep showing over and over. Like the harley guy.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - What do you find flawed in the The 9/11 commission report?
Why do you rely on the media as a source. Much of the original, unedited information is (was) available. For example, you were able to read all of the firefighters statements, in entirety, online. I have found the "Truth" movement is far more selective in their quoting, to the point of using partial quotes in order to make it appear someone said something they didn't.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Do I think which war was justified?
Yes. I think Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks for the same reasons Bin Laden thinks he was behind the 9/11 attacks.
Yes. I know the government keeps secrets. They even have classifications for the documents and publications detailing those secrets.
False flags? It's a term clearly indicating a love for all things conspiracy, but yes - we know for a fact such operations have taken place.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 no admittance by obl ever. he commended the attackers, is all.
It is the amount of convenience for the am govt and all involved that is questionable. Bush's war agenda, halliburton contracts for cheney, a few billion for silverstien. All a little too convenient.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - Our inept government who cannot do anything right, pulled off one of the greatest conspiracies of all time, leaving behind zero evidence. Our government, where a guy can't get his dick sucked without everyone knowing about it, convinced thousands of people involved in the conspiracy to keep quite, even 10 years later. Do you honestly believe that?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 YES. like how Infragard ™ is hardly known about and they have a website. And how many times did Bill not get caught? This is far too convenient. There are many coincidences that make this story reek. The "magic passport" shit is laughable.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - Yes. I agree. People who look at the TONS of paper debris all around Ground Zero, the tons of paper debris flying out from the buildings prior to the collapses, who feel there needed to be magic involved in the passport surviving are truly laughable.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 so these two passports passed out of a pocket through a exploding cockpit through an exploding building and fall 1000 ft and be relatively unscathed. You are so effin' gullible....not to mention Atta's supposed route was undo-able. The connecting flights did not line up as supposed.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - There was one passport. How do you know it was in a pocket?
Have you bothered to look at the types of things that survive plane crashes and explosions, do any research at all, or are you content to simply parrot inane theories which lack even the most basic support?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 There were a total of four passports recovered from the attacks, and only one was a "magic passport" that survived the actual attack.
Two were recovered from Flight 93, which crashed but did not burn. Another was recovered from the luggage of a hijacker who was on the plane but the luggage wasn't.
The "magic passport" belonged to Satam al Suqami.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
Like i said, there are too many questions (key word) Im not the all knowing. Why is the 911 commission a useless peace of shit? Why did bush not testify in public? All simple and founded questions. Why did they not charge bin laden? Why was defence a failure? Why did people get promoted instead of demoted? Why are there around 13 witnesses that give a totally different flight path than the "original story." (including pentagon police)
So what do you "believe" caused WTC 1 and 2 to collapse?
kyle87t 1 year ago
9/11 commission - same as pretty much anything else in government. Why do conspiracy theorists think the government would amazingly become capable when they don't believe the government is capable any other time?
Why did Bush not testify in public - most likely because he was discussing classified information.
Why did they not charge Bin Laden? Dunno. What do you suppose would be accomplished by charging him?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 two different gov't here. The one you vote for and the one in power.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
You need to be more specific about what you feel were defense failures.
People getting promoted - that's how the world works. Happens every day.
Every witness gives their own interpretation of 9/11, or any other event. Why do you find it to be unusual?
The cause of the WTC 1 & 2 collapses - design specifics of the buildings, massive structural damage, failing and damaged fireproofing, heat from massive fires, physics.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
WTC 7 collapsed due to - design characteristics, massive damage, heat from intense fires, physics.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Why do you only look at WTC 1 and 2. There are inconsistencies throughout the whole day.
First of all, you dont say where the molten steel came from. The fact that its there is enough to be suspicious. I dont claim to have the answers, I say I KNOW the original story is false. I cant tell you what happened, I just know it wasnt supposed to happen like it did.
Black boxes? How is that A MYTH? You sir are simply retarded.. You refuse to delve into certain questions and attack others. Typical.
kyle87t 1 year ago
I have looked at every single available detail regarding the events of 9/11 - some so minute you'd probably not even find them on the conspiracy pages this many years later.
I don't recall saying anything about the black boxes was a myth. I believe they likely survived the collapses and were recovered.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Molten steel...
There is no evidence of actual molten steel at Ground Zero. It is unlikely there was molten (i.e. liquid) steel at the site. It is likely there would be red hot steel (as seen in some photos) at the site.
There were fires burning in the massive pile of rubble for days. No doubt the subway tunnels helped provide the necessary oxygen. Do you know how an oven works?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
In the Chicago Fire (1871) there were no exotic fuels. If you take a trip to the Chicago Fire Museum, you will see chunks of melted metal recovered from that fire.
Was that just a setup for the 9/11 conspiracy?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 ...not structural steel though, was it.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
"I cant tell you what happened, I just know it wasnt supposed to happen like it did. "
What is your basis for this remark? How do you know it wasn't supposed to happen like it did? Are you a structural engineer? Forensic investigator? Do you have some specific experience with passenger planes crashing into tall buildings? How is it you know this?
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Like i said before. There are way too many inconsistancies on 911, some of which you cant answer, which means there is room for question. IF you believe the commission report, you have to be crazy. Why did georgie boy and Cheney meet behind closed doors, not under oath, not transcripted/recorded? HOW IS THIS NORMAL? And when the press asked bush about it, he tripped up and sounded like a retard. How do you NOT see these things? Its sick already. Type in "Bush questioned about 911 commission"
kyle87t 1 year ago
Kyle - you asked a lot of emotional questions and repeated a lot of ill founded myths for someone who has supposedly done research on this.
Inconsistency? What exactly are the rules for fires and building collapses? In a planned demolition, months are spent on planning and preparation and they still don't always go as planned.
I don't have any video of steel framed structures which collapsed prior to the invention of video.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
You *can* research the Madrid Tower, which was a steel and concrete framed building. The steel structure collapsed due to fire - the concrete portion did not.
Thermite, super-thermite, super-duper-mega-magic-thermite burns quickly. Had it been used in the WTC buildings, it would have been gone at the time of the collapse. Thermite offers no explanation for molten metal at the site days later. Not to mention thermite would be a poor choice in bring down the buildings.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 and it is thermate.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - Sorry - I forgot Thermate, super Thermate, superduper mega magic tickle me elmo Thermate and whatever other versions the truthers have most recently switched to in their efforts to support their idiocy.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
@JohnP6617 your ignorance is really showing this time bub. To assert that Gage and the like invented an explosive that has been around for centuries. Regular thermite has been used to weld railroad ties for almost 200 years. to think that the military and industry would not have increased the potential of this material in that time is foolish or just plain ignorant.
NOmeansnoFAN 1 year ago
@NOmeansnoFAN - Sorry man. Thermite as it is used to weld rail ties is and has been known for centuries. The Truthers have invented a number of different updated versions of thermite in an ongoing effort to try to make their baseless theories work. They invented thermite which can cut sideways, they believe the twin towers were the first ever use of thermite in building demolition, and they think it would somehow burn for weeks.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
If you're looking for questions - how about the question of how anyone would get tons of thermite into the WTC towers unnoticed by the 50,000+ occupants. Question how a team would spend a year prepping the buildings for demolition without notice. Question how these demolition devices would be triggered.
It is clear you have done little or no research. If you were to ask these questions and research the answers, you'd easily see how ridiculous these theories are.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Instead of asking unfounded and meaningless questions. Why not point to *any* evidence which indicates a planned demolition?
Talk to me about the designs of the WTC buildings compared to other buildings. Talk to me about how those deigns may or may not have played a role in the collapses.
You are simply repeating old, tired myths that you seem to have gotten straight from the Prof Jones schooly. Do some actual research on your own and if you have meaningful questions, feel free to ask.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
BOTTOM LINE.
SHOW me a VIDEO of a steel structure building that has fallen like that due to fire.
DId you see the Beijing fire? The skyscraper was ingulfed in flamers for 24 hours with fires that, from the look of the smoke was much hotter than on 911, and definitely more extensive, and it stood. Type in Beijing fire.
kyle87t 1 year ago
Meanwhile he has a wife and kids. What else is wrong?
Pentagon foogate. Only 2 frames of a video? We know that the FBI confiscated dozens of videotapes. If there was no conspiracy, surely they would just release a full video which we know they have and it would end all talk of pentagon conspiracies. The gas station across the street surely caught the event on video among others.
What about larry saying "pull it" I realize this is not proof, but who would say that?
kyle87t 1 year ago
Defense was a total failure. No one got demoted, but instead promoted. WHERE ARE THE BLACK BOXES? They said they were not recovered? LOL so a passport survives but not nearly indestructible black boxes. Add that to the witnesses that saw the FBI take the black boxes and you got a lot of questions that need answering. Oh, dont forget how cheyney had the ability to call a shoot down order but did not knowing the plane was hijacked. hmm what else. Jenkins, the WTC7 witness, "committed suicide"
kyle87t 1 year ago
The question is not IF there was molten metal. The question is WHAT CAUSED IT, because it WAS there.
So you say no incindiary device can do this, what about thermate, or super thermite? You seem to be missing the point. HOW did the fire get hot enough to cause this, because we both know jet fuel doesnt do this. All of the failures on this day cause me to question. I dont say bush did it, I just argue that the official story is false. The pentagon witnesses gave a different flight path.
kyle87t 1 year ago
Dude. To put it into perspective I believed the original story for over 2 years. Why was WTC7 the only one to fall when other WTC's were much more damaged? (obviously putting aside 1 and 2)
Show me what your pointing too. There must be videos of these "reports" and "facts"
Tell me this.
IF there are FACTS then why is there no official explanation as to how it fell? If I remember correctly they said it was due to fire. Now, Ive watched a lot of demolition vidoes and this one looks even better
kyle87t 1 year ago
Why do I have to explain what incendiary device would cause this? It was THERE. You tell ME what caused this. I can tell you what didnt, and thats jet fuel.
Ive done research on my own. I have never seen a report saying building 7 was leaning. If it was leaning why didnt it fall over the damaged side instead of falling straight down? Honestly, I dont need to debate this. I know the original story is flawed. There are WAY to many inconsistencies, if you dont see that, good on you.
kyle87t 1 year ago
Why do you have to explain it? Because incendiary devices don't cause molten metal at the site days later. They don't cause molten metal at the time they are used. Jet fuel wouldn't cause molten metal at any time either. In this case, most of it was gone within minutes of the plane hitting the building.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
If you've done research, how did you fail to read the actual firefighters comments and reports? What did you learn about the design of WTC 7? What evidence did you find indicating it collapsed by some other means?
Honestly, you really don't need to debate this. You've made up your mind to accept wild, unfounded partial theories while ignoring any and all facts. Research or debate would just get in your way.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Is that a serious question?
"What would molten steel at the site indicate?"
What do you mean? Jet fuel does not burn nearly hot enough to create this. So that would indicate the possibility of an incendiary device.
Listen, look at all of the other WTC buildings that were closer to 1 and 2, they were DESTROYED but still standing. Fire on a few floors would not cause WTC7 to collapse like that.
Where did the gold go? They said it melted, but wheres the gold pool? what a joke.
kyle87t 1 year ago
What do I mean? I want you to explain what type of incendiary device would cause molten steel at the site days later.
Fire on a few floors? FDNY would not go into the building 5 hours before the collapse because WTC7 was fully involved and leaning.
Where did the gold go? It was recovered. "They" didn't say it melted. ... unless by "they" you are referring to conspiracy nut jobs.
That's the problem with simply repeating old, tired myths without doing any research on your own.
JohnP6617 1 year ago
Starting fresh - mostly for Kammerz... My interest in the events of 9/11 started with my acceptance that all or some of the many conspiracy theories might be true. I spent way too much time researching every detail of every theory I found. It is in those details the theories far too easily fall apart. Maybe you can look through the past 8 years of the alt.conspiracy Usenet group for in depth discussions. Just understanding the buildings designs goes a long way to understanding why they collaped.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
From there, research building demolitions. It takes a LOT of work, time & people to bring down a building. The largest steel framed structure ever demolished with explosives was the 27 story J L Hudson building in Detroit. It took 6 months to prep that building - which including removing all non-structural interior walls, partially cutting through the steel support beams, rigging the explosives, etc. It would be VERY obvious to building occupants.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
Beyond that, steel framed structures are susceptible to collapse due to fire. Many have over the years (one steel framed bank in NY collapsed when the building *next* to it burned). Simple logic verifies this for you by simply noting building codes requiring fireproofing for structural steel.
When all is said and done, the best one can conclude is that the US government was inept in doing anything to prevent the attacks. We already knew that.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
JohnP6617-I do thank you for bringing up some valid points, that I need to doublecheck certain "facts", but there's too much circumstantial evidence to believe our government was NOT involved. I'm also going to ck out "rumors" that US military planes were ordered NOT to fly in a certain area (because they might've caught the planes incoming on radar), supposedly no windows on the plane, & supposedly there was was a "devil"seen in the smoke,now that type of crap I ignore.
Kammerz10 2 years ago
And the BBC reporting the 1st plane hitting the Tower, BEFORE it happened, a long time BBC reporter quitting in disgust because he felt there was a cover up, and subsequently wrote a book. I didn't say only demolition brought down the Towers, but the plane crash alone DIDN'T do it. I don't care if the A&E for 9/11 truth don't have Phds, etc. they have some valid points. And firemen saying they SAW windows at bottom floors blowing out, people hearing explosions...even if they lied, WTC 7? Why?
Kammerz10 2 years ago
JohnP6617-for some reason it wouldn't let me post replies until now. Yes, I took some things at face value, I thought Marvin Bush OWNED the security, he didn't. Didn't know the steel HAD been gone thru before shipped off. But Bush LYING, the hunt for Bin Laden slowed down because of CIA director pursuing him resigning Aug 2001, his sitting their like a FOOL in that classroom, he didn't WANT to get up and do anything, he was INVOLVED.
Kammerz10 2 years ago
There is nothing that adds up to conspiracy or anything more than the planes & fires being the cause of the towers collapse. Bush was far too incompetent to be involved. Even if the US Gov was involved, they would have kept him out of it. Almost the entire event was recorded. No explosions are seen or heard. There WOULD be loud noised in a building collapse - and some people call any loud noise an "explosion".
JohnP6617 2 years ago
The BBC report wasn't on the first plane, it was that WTC 7 had collapsed - and the reporter was standing in front of a live shot of the still standing WTC 7. So a reporter screwed up. Not the first time. She got the building wrong, she was told it was going to collapse and reported it had. Pffft. Hardly fodder for a conspiracy.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
When the towers were built, there was a group of engineers who felt it was a poor design and that the towers would collapse on their own. That they stood as long as they did, even after the planes hit them is more amazing than that they collapsed.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
Bush not leaving the classroom is the dumbest thing the A&E for truth latched on to. The Secret Service would decide if and when he should move in such a circumstance. The wouldn't have him run blindly out to the limo and a potential ambush. Like I said, after you look at all the REAL facts, it adds up to incompetence at best.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
If you look at the edges (and down) of the angled cuts, you can see evidence of molten drippage - not a prduct of cutting by a welder.
eltuvitomio 2 years ago
You can be pretty sure the "angled cuts" were made by a cutting torch as there is video evidence where you see it happening. There were no "angled cuts" as a result of the collapses. Further, there is no indication of the months of preparation such a demolition would require.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
True-From Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth:Tons of molten steel was found. They have scientific facts. I didn't want to believe it was a conspiracy, but Bush made it clear when he LIED about seeing it on tv the plane hitting the tower-it hadn't been televised yet!
Kammerz10 2 years ago
If any molten steel was found at Ground Zero, how is that evidence of a demolition? Demolitions do not result in the existence of molten steel. Even some sort of magic Steve Jones Super-duper thermite wouldn't explain it.
As for Bush, he is either a bumbling idiot, or a genius master conspirator. Which is it? During his 8 years in office, was he more famous for his genius, or for saying dumb things?
JohnP6617 2 years ago
I didn't say it was ONLY due to demolition, obviously jet fuel and momemtum contribruted. Why was WTC 7 demolished, at the same time? Why did Jeb Bush signed an executive order allowing him to declare Martial Law, on Sept 7th. What was HE worried about?
Kammerz10 2 years ago
Actually, jet fuel had little to do with the collapses as it burned off within minutes of the impacts. WTC7 was hit by debris from the collapsing tower, burned for 5 hours. Unique design characteristics played a major role in it collapsing - too much info to go into here. As to why Jeb Bush did anything - how do you feel his actions indicate a conspiracy? What happened in Florida?
JohnP6617 2 years ago
It's not I never said it did. Jet fuel and momentum contributed. A&E for 9/11 Truth need to make it CLEAR which members are NOT in fact actual architects or engineers. But even an engineering student I would listen to his opinion.
Kammerz10 2 years ago
If you don't feel molten steel is evidence of demolition, what is your question about molten steel?
Most member of the A&E for Truth movement aren't architects, engineers, or students in either field. Of those that have degrees, they tend more towards things like theology, arts, languages, etc.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
Anyone who thinks the jet fuel melted the steel has their head up their ass. 911 has "Inside Job" written all over it. Its time to shake the delusional thinking and do some real research and call for a real investigation followed by indictments and prison terms for everyone from Bushm down
eltuvitomio 2 years ago
Anyone who talks about jet fuel melting steel is simply repeating old tired myths and hasn't actually done any research into the collapses.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
eltuviomio-I agree. And WHY was the steel from Tower 1 shipped quickly off to China? It was a CRIME SCENE, by LAW it is to be secured as such. There is as much evidence that is was a conspiracy as there is evidence that OJ DID murder Nicole and Ron. People just don't want to believe it. I didn't want to.
Kammerz10 2 years ago
Everything from ground zero was checked as potential evidence at the scene. It then all went to the Fresh Kills landfill where it was gone over with a fine toothed comb - to the point where individual human knucklebones were recovered. Anything deemed evidence was saved. Scrap was scrapped. To date, most of the evidence is still kept at various locations (most of it in a large hangar).
JohnP6617 2 years ago
JohnP6617-I will ck out Fresh Kills landfill, to make SURE it's what it is (I've become sadly a cynic am now questioning ALOT. So NO steel was shipped overseas? Tons of steel we're talking about. Why did someone say it was shipped? To start a conspiracy theory?
Kammerz10 2 years ago
Some steel was shipped overseas, but none of the evidence was. The steel needed for evidence went to the NIST for their investigation. The NIST web site had pictures of the tons of steel they used in their investigation.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
People, this only clears one picture of many, and totally doesn't clear the thermite theory.
TamsuO 2 years ago
Yes Tam - the video clearly states it is addressing this picture only. The thermite theory clears itself by being ridiculous and entirely unsupported by any facts or evidence.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
No, this video doesn't just magically wipe away all the other evidence, sorry to say. It's just saying that in this picture, there is no thermite.
TamsuO 2 years ago
Yeah. That would be basic English Tamsu. This video addresses one picture. The lack of facts and evidence are what eliminate the inane thermite theories in general.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
no one can withstand 2000c metal like that with boots they have. its not molten mettle. if your argueing against conspiracists I aplaud you
NewGameReleases 2 years ago
I fail to see how people actually believe in conspiracy theorists who has no background in the topic rather than civil and the rest of the engineering community, who you'd think is more qualified to judge the situation....
xPBJ 2 years ago
It's easy to see how people believe unsupportable conspiracy theories when you consider the amazing ignorance of large numbers of the general population.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
JohnP6617-I don't consider myself ignorant. I went to college, I read, when they have firefighters stating they saw molten steel, windows blowing out AT THE BOTTOM, even if some of the other theories I've heard are BS, there is enough strange questionable evidence to believe it WAS a conspiracy. For 1, Bush LIED! He couldn't have seen it on tv, it wasn't televised yet! Explain that? And BBC reporting before it happend? The CIA director RESIGNED 8/11, who was after Bin Laden. Coincidence?
Kammerz10 2 years ago
I don't consider you ignorant either. Just take the time to research the Truth Movement's claims and you will see they fall apart very quickly. What would molten metal at the site indicate? Why would the windows blow out? How would a demolition team spend 12 months rigging the buildings without any of the 50,000 occupants noticing?
JohnP6617 2 years ago
xPBJ-Then why did Bush say he found about the plane hitting the towers ON TV, when it hadn't been televised yet? He lies and admits he did. Why didn't he immediately leave that Florida classroom? Why did the director of the CIA abruptly "quit" in August 2001? His main mission? Pursuing Bin Laden. Marvin BUSH owned security at the towers, strange evacuations were done prior to 9/11.Look what is on $, esp the 20 VERY strange. AE for 911 Truth- 400Architects & Engineers found the proof.
Kammerz10 2 years ago
Not enough room to explain it all here. Bush question answered above. He wouldn't have left the school or done anything else on his own. He goes where the Secret Service tells him. As a security measure they wouldn't move him out of there immediately, as that would be potentially expected and a possible ambush. First they would check the area and departure route to be sure it was clear.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
Marvin Bush did not at any time ever own Securacom. He worked there for a time, but left 2 years before the attacks. Security at the towers was run by the Port Authority of NY. Securacom had a maintenance contract with them for security equipment..
There were no "strange evacuations"
When you check the conspiracy theorists "facts", they fall apart. If there was a conspiracy, why do they need to lie? Why not just offer genuine proof?
JohnP6617 2 years ago
xPBJ-That's what I'm doing. I get the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth newsletters, they HAVE scientific evidence.
Kammerz10 2 years ago
The members of truth movement are almost all NOT engineers or architects. Look up their membership and the degrees they hold. Most scholars have abandoned Prof Jones because his theories are so highly ridiculous. He claims iron oxide & aluminum are proof of explosives. Might it be proof the buildings were made of iron & clad with aluminum?
JohnP6617 2 years ago
Now you know damn well Bush can give people super powers, he's all knowing and all powerful.......er except when he's a bumbling idiot.......but then sometimes I need him to be a mad genius. Dammit, don't burst my bubble, only a conspiracy of thousands of people could be kept quiet......um......well whatever.
lonewatchman 2 years ago
unless those boots are rated for 2000 degrees Celsius, there's no thermite in that hole
TheyCallMeTaterSalad 2 years ago 3
I was speaking to our friend, the CT here. Sorry if that wasn't clear. :)
dipic7 2 years ago
These observations reminded us of nano-thermite fabricated at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and elsewhere; available papers describe this material as an intimate mixture of UFG[Ultra-fine grain] aluminum and iron oxide in nano-thermite composites to form pyrotechnics or explosives."
biped19 2 years ago
They also reminded us of superhuman firefighters who were able to stand amid the molten metal and burning thermite without getting burned, eh?
JohnP6617 2 years ago
Nano-thermite isn't even a reality yet.
Ultranothing 2 years ago
Could you please prove that flouride is good to ingest, or that billions of $ were not made on this day, or that Bin laden is wanted for this act according to the FBI, because I can't seem to find it. A lot of the kooks you speak of are people who lost friends and famly on that day by the way and know that something doesn't fit. You would see it to if you weren't so brain washed and apathetic. If you lost someone on 9/11, you are not doing them a favor and if you didn't then shut up.
1 star
hamofbuddha 2 years ago
Sorry Ham. I can't give you an IQ or common sense. Your repetition of disproved 9/11 myths suggests, at best, your abilities to parrot inane ideas. If you can't be bothered to do any actual research, then shut up.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
All I'm saying is that you should quite making pointless videos and get back to your corporate dick sucking. If this is the best you can come up with then maybe you need to get off the flouride water. If the government didn't do it, then they let it happen. Either way you're a slave. enjoy the police state moron.
hamofbuddha 2 years ago
Ham. The video had a point years ago. Morons were using it as evidence of thermite at ground zero. It is not evidence of thermite at ground zero. That was the point. It doesn't have anything to do with who did it or who let it happen - it has to do with morons who are unable to analyze evidence with any amount of common sense.
JohnP6617 2 years ago
Funny how you can't refute his points so you resort to ad hominem attacks instead. Either way you're a slave to your own idiocy. Enjoy having the IQ of a chimp, chump.
dipic7 2 years ago
500 billion dollars were LOST on this day. Little more research and less talk.
MrBoredatwork 2 years ago
Nice work JohnP6617
blueshadow1996 3 years ago 3
Thermite doesn't even burn white it burns redish orange.
Br0k3nS41nt 3 years ago 3
WHAT DOES IT MATTER?
kaktisbalaktikakel 3 years ago
...and anyhow, how would the steel stay molten even HOURS after it was "melted"? Even if it were melted at the time of the colapse, wouldn't it have cooled and hardened by the time the emergency crew got to it?
cryptsub 3 years ago 3
there using a cutting torch dumb ass
dufflar 3 years ago
They're not using a cutting torch. The glow is from a high powered light. The photo that was shown in the video was doctored by the so called truth movement. They changed the white glow to orange. I'm uploading a video response showing the original photo as well as video, make sure you watch it to get the truth.
Libtarded 3 years ago 10
How about you show the rest of the video. You can clearly see it is a HIGH POWERED LIGHT that is making the glow.
Why would firemen be standing so close to it on such unstable ground. And using a shovel to scoop it out? Come on. The steel would melt it.
Conspiracy Theorists are so silly...
rhalladay 3 years ago 7
The rest of the video? I made the video. That's all there is. I got the picture off a conspiracy kook site and made a video to show how foolish it was for them to try to use it as "proof" of molten metal at Ground Zero.
JohnP6617 3 years ago
no, he is right. the image has been proved to have been doctored. they are gathered around a WHITE light. this is from footage of firefighters diggin for survivors around a bright lamp.
this tend to be about the best truthers can do for "evidence"
look for the 9/11 conspiracies debunked vids to see the original footage
w0bbl3r 3 years ago 6
this picture was taken from a video of firefighters working on the pile, trying to find survivors.
the picture here has been doctored to show a bright white light, as bright orange, so as to fool simple minded truthers into joining the alex jones religious cult
w0bbl3r 3 years ago 7
If you look closely, you'll realize that the one fire fighter outlined in blue is in exactly the same position as the other two fire fighters that are obviously on their knees in the same EXACT position with very similar if not identical body posture.
Think of a clock..the fire fighters at 6 o'clock, 4 o'clock, and 8 o'clock are all in the same position with the same posture.
The fire fighters at 10 and 11 o'clock are either on their knees or are significantly shorter than your average adult.
Krypke1 3 years ago
obviously not moron, the molton steel is below the piles. you didnt adress what kept the pile over 1000 degrees for monthes.
probly just the hot air of new yorkers, right moron? tell us who was standing below the pile inside the "foundry like conditions" according to a firefighter, even pataki himself said molton steel. your coincedence theory morons cant even keep your own story straight. pathetic pt2
cddraftsman 3 years ago
So, English is a second language for you Draftsman? Let's try again. Sound out the words, or have someone literate read this to you. *This* video addresses the use of *this* picture as "proof" of molten metal. Either this picture shows fireman standing in molten metal, or, this picture offers no proof of molten metal. Period. Since you admit to supporting my thought that these fireman are *not* standing in molten metal, you and I obviously agree. Why do you act as though we don't?
JohnP6617 3 years ago
so the gov of new york lied when he took the news people to ground zero and talked about the molton steel and the furnace raging beneath the pile for monthes? we dont know what caused that.. blah blah.. nasa thermal images, over 1300 degrees in november under 1,2 and 7. nasa lied too.. pathetic video
cddraftsman 3 years ago
You're obviously easily confused CD. If you watch the video, you might note it addresses the fact that people have used *this* photo as proof of molten steel. Do you *really* think those fireman are standing in molten steel?
JohnP6617 3 years ago
Steven Jones "facts" got him laughed out of BYU, rejected by his peers.
I mean, an alleged professor claiming "Sulphur = thermite in all cases" is absurd.
EdgemanLL2 3 years ago 6
This is not the evidence the most esteemed 911 Truth researchers put forward as evidence. Stick to Steven Jones' talks on youtube if you want the real scientific 911 info.
bill0756 3 years ago
Bill... you need to take that act on the road. I haven't laughed that hard in a very long time. Very clever using "esteemed" and the disgraced, debunked Prof Jones in the same sentence is pure comedy magic!
JohnP6617 3 years ago
thermite or not, your video is retarded.
mitchumjonescrusher 3 years ago
Mitch... I appreciate you providing an example of what happens when people refuse to take advantage of our education system. The good news is, just as you have chosen ignorance, you can choose to change and become a functioning member of society.
JohnP6617 3 years ago
CT are all the same. They distort evidence to fit their agenda. Jason Bermas claims on video that all the FF in new york are paid off
Obelisk2290 3 years ago 5
thats a night recovery,,with flashlights...i was there and have some of the same pictures
ground zero ironworkers,recovery by hand,,,recovery with respect
gndzroirnwkr 4 years ago 5
how about the testimony of FDNY witnesses that saw molten metal "running down the channels" "like a volcano".
let me guess, they are "kooks" too.
there's more to the molten metal argument than this one picture.
zappamannn 4 years ago
Correct Zap, there is more to it than this picture. The video addresses the issue of the kooks need to lie and misrepresent to support their theories. There just isn't much truth to the "truth" movement.
JohnP6617 4 years ago
Are you suggesting that the firefighters are lying? Why would they make something like that up in the wake of this countries biggest catastrophe? They had nothing to gain.
zappamannn 4 years ago
I see literacy is not your strong point Zap. I am not suggesting, but rather clearly stating that *this picture* does nothing to offer 'proof' of molten metal. How high an IQ does one need to realize firefighters cannot be standing in molten metal?
JohnP6617 4 years ago
If it was running down channels, it is not likely that it was steel. Lead, brass or copper, maybe. You find these things melted in any large structural fire. Not steel. Steell that glows red is stationary. It's more like white or yellow when it flows.
Thermite would not burn for more than seconds or minutes. To burn for days, the charge would have to have weighed toins and would have left an iron pig the size of a typical office building.
leftysergeant 3 years ago 3
Molten steel would not "flow like lava" for any great distance. It solidifies verty quickly. I think you may be referring to two or three fire ighters who were under WTC 6. There would likely have been molten lead and brass down there from all the ammunition in the building. If it were hot enough in there for steel to flow, I don't think, based on my experience as a fire fighter and occassional foundry worker, that they would have said much later about much of anything. POOF!
leftysergeant 3 years ago 3
watch this!
Melethron13 4 years ago
Watch what?
JohnP6617 4 years ago
hahaha, you gotta be kidding me!? is this a joke? john, are you kidding? because, i am not laughing. your video is a piece of misinformation.
mightyhighroller 4 years ago
You truly must be Mighty High if you think firefighters were standing in a pit full of molten metal.
JohnP6617 4 years ago
too bad all the evidence was wisked away just like some $100 billion in american gold.. just like fort knox... pearl harbor... gulf of tonkin.. the sinking of lusitania.. the murder of jfk, rfk, jfk jr, etc....
WTC is a murder case, iraq is a genocide and the truth will always remain...
those that have sold their souls for material gains are mistaken....
CreatorChannel 4 years ago
Creator - The evidence was whisked away over a period of 8 months. A large body of it is stored in a hangar at JFK. Still more of it remains with NIST. None of the other incidents you mention have anything to do with the physical evidence which clearly shows 9/11 was the result of 19 hijackers, 4 planes, and nothing more.
JohnP6617 4 years ago
nice man, way to show the skeptical way!
darkskeptic360 4 years ago 3
The Picture is overexposed and you cannot see where they stay. And the guy in the middle is maybe on hes knees. Try it again.
cushycrux 4 years ago
Cushy,
Regardless of the exposure, there are 2 fireman standing in the hole. One of them is diggin from the hole with a shovel. 2 more are leaning into the hole. If there were molten steel in that hole, you'd have at least 4 cooked firefighters.
JohnP6617 4 years ago
Check out RKOwens4 He has a video showing a film clip of this same scene. It clearly shows a worklight.
leftysergeant 3 years ago 3
2 interesting Documentaries to watch
Loose Change and zeitgeist.
Obviously can't be all taken at face value but there are enough good points and lose ends to show you that 911 wasn't the work of terrorists, alone.
nervouss 4 years ago
Nervouss - Loose Change is a joke, even among alternate conspiracy theorists. Zeitgeist looks like a cool flick - very well made, awesome imagery. I haven't watched it all (the first 20 minutes), I don't see it supporting alternate conspiracy theories on 9/11/
JohnP6617 4 years ago
I have watched botth Zeitgeist and Loose Screws. Found them both to be garbage.
Zeitgeist is particularly dangerous garbage. It contains a lot of white nationalist themes hidden throughout.
Trace any twooferism back to its source and you will run into a Nazi.
leftysergeant 3 years ago