Luciano Pavarotti/Joan Sutherland - Credeasi misera - Live 1976

[blindbirdoperamusic]

Where's the F?

[colino72]

Not great conducting - did Bonynge get the gigs because he was good or because he was married to JS?? Not the first time I have heard his tempi all over the shop...

[arcot9]

singers like this DO NOT exist today......so stop effing complaining...and enjoy!

[bellini7verdi]

sutherland canta como dios.......y pavaroti tambien.....y la orquesta dirigida de manera tremendista y cojonuda esta que te cagas.......una version diferente para voces opulentas y diferentes.....en el momento que les tuvo que tocar........esto es una rareza ...impresionante.............y no un defecto..........y mas cuando se hace en directo.....donde nunca se sabe como se tienen los biorritmos...aunque se ensayen.......eso es lo bueno de esta grabacion......

[AccidentalTouch]

Guys. Please note that GORGEOUS f''!

[caruuso]

The conductor needed to get a move on, not stick inflexibly to his beat. Bad show.

[Adrien26able]

Unforgettable!!!...

Adrien J. Alpendre PhD

New Orleans, Louisiana

[babydrane]

I'm so sorry and I don't mean to get on her case but what the hell is Sutherland singing?

[kgarmaker123]

@babydrane She wobbles nicely.

[babydrane]

@kgarmaker123 She's not wobbling but I don't hear anything but the "a" vowel. Listened again and heard "nel suo morrir" but that's about it. Whatever she was singing, she did a great job of it. Pav...beautiful as ever.

[SingcerelyStudios]

@babydrane No one REALLY cares or cared when you consider the BEAUTY of Tone and productiona dn longevity! Only another sosprano who is envious and not able to GET IT...? Sutherland is LA STUPENDA for many reasons!

[nicsvetl]

Conductor-idiot!!! Luciano-bravissimo!!

[SingcerelyStudios]

@nicsvetl So how many operas have YOU conducted???? I would gues NONE!

[Pavarotti4eva]

pavarotti had perfect pitch, if memory serves me correct.

[flaze3]

Much as the F is virtuostic, I prefer a high D. It's much more reasonable.

[radiologist301]

Pavarotti was the best period.

The "other" tenors can eat his shorts.

[aaronsande]

I failed to note this was your video....LOL...so I guess if you didn't want us to have this conversation on here we wouldn't be having it!

Again, thank you, I know you know your opera, teacher or no. Any time someone who loves Pav (and he WAS amazing early on especially) says I have a beautiful voice, I'm floored...

I'll stick to Kraus instead of Domingo for technique, then ;D

My teacher is very good...she only took me on because she liked my voice...experience was a downside!

[Mooorhe]

There are things to be admired in your singing, the voice is a beautiful one and your attempts to interpret the pieces were admirable. However, certain aspects of the technique were lacking, which is natural for a beginner. The legato does not completely flow properly and some of the jumps up to higher notes were strangled. These are flaws in Domingo's singing, so I assume that your lack of understanding of singing technique and compliments of Domingo's technique relate heavily.

[radiologist301]

What an unbelievably focused voice pavarotti possessed.....I can't belive that anyone will ever sing like that again....I don't believe it is possible to sing as good or better....ABSOLUTE PERFECTION!!!

[Pavarotti4eva]

why the hell are we arguing about this?

do you REALLY care? will it REALLY change your listening experience?

[marcherst]

Well, I think he's beautiful even with all of his fat.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Hint: Morbid obesity...in other words genetics. The poorer the health, the faster the decline of the voice. Kraus was healthy, and so was his voice. Their lifespan was more or less the same but the latter lad lived a healthier life thanks to his better genes. It's a bit of a matter of luck.

[GermanOperaSinger]

Both died of pancreatic cancer, at the same age too.

[Mooorhe]

Wow, I didn't know that Kraus died of pancreatic cancer... I wonder how many more years of singing he could have had... He probably could have sounded good for years longer, what a great technician.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

GermanOS-Good point. But the rate of decay to the unavoidable end has been much worse for Pava. I don't think the last 20 years of his life or so have been years of comfort because of his health problems. Kraus lived a healthy life until his cancer and quick decay to the end.

[jenni4claire]

I don't think even Pavarotti himself tried to pass his obesity off as genetic- his parents were not obese. By all accounts he ate the way alcoholics drink, in an out of control way that increased alarmingly in direct correlation to whatever stress he was under. But apparently he always was 'dieting' and never tried to say it was just bad luck.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Jenni-Stop BSing. Just go and talk to a physician. Morbid obesity can hardly be reached by eating like there is no tomorrow. Genetic artifacts can be acquired by ancestors which go many generations backward. Looking at the parents isn't decisive enough.

[jenni4claire]

But by all accounts he ate like there was no tomorrow, no next week AND no next year, and ever took any exercise more exhausting than than lifting a fork. He was a compulsive over-eater, and it cost him his first looks, then his health, and probably 20 years off his life. I am sure if he could have stopped himself, he would have done.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

As I indicated earlier, go talk to a physician. Before we know it you're trying to defeat modern medicine while trying to justify your nonsensical comment.

[Mooorhe]

Please stop arguing about this, I respect both of your opinions, but I don't want this to escalate into a huge argument. So please discuss it else where.

[jenni4claire]

I really don't want to argue about it- i don't think it even matters why he was fat- or that he was fat. Any more than it would matter if he had been short or drank to excess- it would not change a single note on a single recording: if he had been George Clooney, I could not love him more.

[Mooorhe]

Well said, I agree entirely.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Jenni-In case you missed alcoholism has genetic traits so to speak. I'd suggest you catch up with no so recent advances in genetics and medicine. The same applied to morbid obesity. Pava wasn't only obese; he was morbidly obese. No matter how much one eats, such level of obesity cannot be reached without any underlying genetic artifacts in one's constitution.

[SingcerelyStudios]

@jenni4claire I BEG TO DIFFER WITH YOU!!!

You CAN NOT compare eating disorders/habbits to being a drug addict/alcoholic.

A human can not live without food. I KNOW I used to weigh 388 at 6'1". Food was, and still is, My COMPORT. Fortunately for me I have gotten it under control WITH assistance duodenalswitch dot com

[GermanOperaSinger]

Not really a huge fan of Sutherland myself, except on very few roles which I think she is quite good. She did a good Lucia. Young Pavarotti's voice was actually extremely well fit to this opera, although perhaps not quite as high placed as Bellini intended for Giovanni Rubini. The C# Pav sings is one of the most perfect I have heard. Pity he lost the brightness in his top in his later years...I often wonder why that was. His technique was superb.

[Mooorhe]

Perhaps his voice just couldn't take the heavier roles. The resilience of vocal cords must differ from singer to singer, which is why you'll get Domingo who can sing without great technique and last and singers like Sutherland who develop vocal wobbles and imperfections even though their technique is great.

Personally, I love Sutherland as Elvira, Lucia Marie etc... But I can see why others don't.

[aaronsande]

Most singers and opera afficionados who know what they are talking about know that Domingo has excellent technique. Kraus is just about the only tenor I can name who had better technique--it was nearly flawless.

Listen to Domingo from his highest note to his lowest note...you can tell each note is from the exact same singer, unlike so many tenors out there. That is due to technique.

Pavarotti was NOT about technique, he was about having an incredible voice gifted to him from his father.

[Mooorhe]

Domingo frequently sang flat at the top of his range and had a tendency to sing sharp everywhere else. He weighted his middle register far too heavily and had a raised tongue in the upper register, this resulted in hoarse high notes and a break in the legato line when a jump up is required.

Kraus had a FAR better technique than Domingo's. Pavarotti did too.

[aaronsande]

Singing SLIGHTLY flat or sharp, and that's all it was because I know what you mean, are not matters of technique. He was very, very slightly off pitch, and for the most part it just added color to his tone.

His high notes were not hoarse (this is a matter of taste), they were brilliant. The heaviness of his voice is natural, not affected. Listen to Giacomini sometime, you might learn about heavy tenor voices.

Say what you want about Pavarotti, the BBC disagrees with you. He's overrated.

[Mooorhe]

He sang noticeably sharp and majorly flat at times. I have recordings of him hitting the C in In questa reggia closer to a B flat. His singing sharp wasn't due to technical error, but his singing flat at the top was. His incorrect attack from an overly weighted middle register meant that he often had to bend up to the pitch or simply hit it flat.

[Mooorhe]

His high notes were generally hoarse shouts, I could fill a video with them. Go to the 1973 Il Trovatore excerpts of him on YouTube and you'll see what I mean. Listen in Ah si ben mio to the difficult B flat on 'e solo in ciel', it's attacked from the middle register and is INCREDIBLY hoarse.

And then in Di quella pira, his first B natural is a shout.

Giacomini was a much better singer than Domingo in terms of voice, much better high notes.

[aaronsande]

Domingo was rightfully a baritone in his youth. Surely someone as informed as you knew that! LOL

It's clear you're a brainwashed Pavarotti freak, and therefore any comments on the subject by you are near meaningless.

And again, before you DARE to comment on MY singing as I'm just starting out, grow a pair and put some of YOUR singing up.

[Mooorhe]

It doesn't matter that Domingo was a baritone, Carlo Bergonzi also began as a baritone. Bergonzi sang many bad/flat high notes by singing past his prime, but in his prime, the tone was even and unhoarse, and the notes were on pitch. This cannot be said for Domingo.

I'm not brainwashed, I have presented you with my own personal opinions. You were the one who used other opinions than your own to present an argument. It appears that if anyone is 'brainwashed', it's you.

[Mooorhe]

I don't care what the BBC thinks, frankly. Any poll that puts Domingo above Caruso is laughable.

Pavarotti is overrated because of his popera days, but he rightfully earned his amazing reputation as an incredible operatic artist in the '60s and '70s and it would be pretty laughable to compare Domingo to the young Pavarotti.

I think your lack of understanding of singing technique shows in your videos as well as your comments, personally.

[flaze3]

ye, dude, you're mixed up. Domingo has BAD technique, but my singing teacher tells me he has great musicality.

Pavarotti had excellent technique (for the most part), but sometimes lacked subtlety.

[aaronsande]

I agree, you guys are right. I hadn't noticed the flaws in Domingo before...I just love his voice so much! Blinded!

[flaze3]

never mind. There are still thinks to appreciate about Domingo. For a true high tenor with excellent technique check out Florez.

Supposedly Bjorling is one of the best, but I find his voice a little harsh.

[aaronsande]

Oh I have heard Florez...I love the squillo in his voice on the high notes, among other things...

Bjoerling and Wunderlich are my true favorites of all time, and it's hard to choose. Had Fritz lived even as long as Jussi, I think he would have been the greatest tenor ever recorded. Alas, dead at 36! =(

I am finding some aspects of Bjoerling's voice annoying, as I gain in experience myself. He had a tendency to go sharp when singing full power, which I already knew and didn't mind...

[flaze3]

Apparently Bjorling was an alcoholic, which doesn't massively surprise me. He never seemed that relaxed :p

As for squillo, you should check out Ezio Pinza. I listened to him and was so impressed. The first convincing bass I've listened to. (btw, don't fall into the trap of only listening to tenors; you'll miss out on so much!)

[aaronsande]

Yeah he was an alcoholic, so sue him! ;P

I've heard Pinza, and love his voice, but you do have me pegged, I mostly listen to tenors. I have some Sam Ramey and some Ghaiurov cds, but haven't listened in a while. I need to stay focused, man =D

[flaze3]

lol, well try to :-) Hope your singing is coming on well!

[aaronsande]

It is! I'm about to put up "Ma Rendi pur Contento" and "Ombra Mai Fu" ;D

Much better singing now than on my first 2 videos, to be sure...

When I get a private moment at home to record them...sometime this week.

[flaze3]

Ok I'll have a look when I get a chance.

[Pavarotti4eva]

domingo is a strange case isnt he?

i have heard a wonderful rendition of nessun dorma by him, and i rest my case on the conclusion that he has a wonderful voice, but his technique leaves wanting. but judging by the actual sound his voice makes, i think that is all he can really do with his strange mix of baritone and tenor.

[flaze3]

Strange mix? It's not as complex as that. The fact is Domingo was a high bari who sang tenor repertoire powerfully, but the high notes were out of his comfortable range as soon as his voice broke, I suspect.

Nessun Dorma is a case in point, as an aria which high baris can sing convincingly. I have to confess I'm impressed with Domingo's una furtiva lagrima though--it's not bel canto at all, but it is quite sensational. Unsurprisingly, though, he wore his voice out with high rep. like that

[Nater389]

Age. No one sounds as good as they did 20 years ago. And no, they don't.