Mainstream Talk on Cuts Miss The Main Point...

[Shockofsanta]

As soon as a politician even hints at cutting "defense" spending he/she is instantly branded as weak on terror, and its argued such cuts would make the public less safe.

Its political suicide. No shit, its safer politicaly to suggest raising Social Security retirement age and decreasing benifits than it is to try and take 1% of the Defense budget away and give it to the schools, thereby doubling their funding!

[pokeralho2008]

I agree with you. The war spending is the most obvious contradiction in the mainstream economical discourse. Somehow in policy, it became normal to see Welfare as optional whereas War is mandatory. If you take this reasoning further down the line, what will it be the benefits of being a citizen of a country X in some years? Not the Welfare. I guess it will be reduced to the "privilege" of cheering up a certain football team or to earn your salary risking your life in your's country's army.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@pokeralho2008 yeah spose they cut all the welfare and the unemployed people riot, the country will turn into a police state overnight.

[pokeralho2008]

@RevolutionaryJam Looking back at recent history, I can't recall a generalized rioting ever occurring in a democratic society. The most common public disturbances have been over issues of Labor (strikes) or Human rights (racial or war). If the welfare/unemployment motive would give rise to a generalized riot I would be surprised. For this to happen the population would have to be well aware of the policy issues. Who is organising/putting this information out to the public in a systematic way?

[RevolutionaryJam]

@pokeralho2008 do you not reckon that if all the people who live on unemployment benefit got told next week that they weren't getting it any more they'd have to be aware of any issues to go absolutely mental?

[pokeralho2008]

@RevolutionaryJam I don't see it as plausible that from one week to the other, suddenly,the unemployed would become aware and start a organized riot. Besides the initial shock of seeing yourself on your own,there are already many social movements capitalizing on this situation: Tea Party (US) and Extreme-Wing Parties (Eur.).These movements divert the attention of its followers to minor issues while the policy causes are left untouched. The only type of movement that might help us are the Unions.

[punkjewellery]

It's all moot really.

Recently saw a TV show about the 3.8 trillion the UK is in debt for. With no real way of ever paying for it.

Apart from printing their way out of it,or favorite a 3rd world war.

History repeating itself over and over.

[RevolutionaryJam]

in the 70s some peoples paid 90% tax so that their kids could get a free education, their kids are the tax payers now and since then the debt that has been accrued has become impossible. The only way out is to pass legislation cancelling the debt, and then pass a law that says all budgets must be balanced. That is the only way that those paying tax can mesaure the services they get against what they are paying and decide whether they want to pay more and get more or pay less and get less.

[punkjewellery]

@RevolutionaryJam Now that sound a common sense thing to do,that's why it will never happen.

Have to go a bit further,if governments can't borrow,then they will print money.Now called quantitative easing,to fool folks.

This is the same as stealing from everyone in the country.

[BoysOfTheBowery]

I'm certain that the forces behind goverment are malign control freaks that seek to keep the human race in a state of bondage and imbalance on all levels. There is no real need for war as far as the average person is concerned. The same source manipulates wars and terrorism into existence through compartmentalised intelligence and propaganda. If we are constantly in a state of anxiety, stress, and protection (wars, arms etc) there is no evolution that can take place, this is key and intentional.

[NOTgarycoleman]

Keep talkin smart, sexy accent man, fap fap fap, uuuggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[cornwallgeezer]

Good video, if anybody is to blame, it's Labour for creating a lot of these fake jobs. And now people are up in arms about losing their jobs. We need real private sector jobs with lower tax and much less red tape. And we know who started the illegal wars don't we. but don't worry carry on voting Labour all you die hard supporters or all of the Lib Lab Con, They are all dick lickers!

[pimpdadysuperman]

Hmm cutting the wars is an odd thing. For Afghanistan I'm all for it but Iraq well I though that war was over oil. I think it's been said before but trying to bring Western values to these countires is pointless as they still end up just buying votes and they can't even set up secular states. But really in the case of Iraq it really is that they're there to open up businesses and just deregulate it.

[scottishlad1987]

let's all just bury our heads in the sand and pretend that we're not in debt. how i'd love to be an ignorant lefty, bliss.

[88baxter88]

If you didnt have the war (disregarding the argument for/against for the moment), alot more would be effected. Hundreds of doctors, nurses, mechanics, engineers, vehicle manufacturers etc wouldnt have jobs. Second of all dont get mixed up between the budget defecit (150ish Million) and the national debt (almost 5 Trillion). Even with these 'dramatic cuts' the national debt is like trying to empty a lake with a teespoon whilst flood waters pour down the mountains.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@88baxter88 it's a completely amoral argument to say we should stay at war because it puts people in jobs or stimulates the economy.... what is more it is vacuous, spending the money domestically or lowering taxes would stimulate the economy more than spending it abroad because it would circulate.

[88baxter88]

@RevolutionaryJam Dont get me wrong, I agree we shouldnt be wasting money and should never of invaded Iraq or Afghanistan. All I am saying is Britain and the population wouldnt be better off if we werent. Yes lowering the Tax would be good as it would give more options for new start up companies etc to get going. The classic example was Hong Kong, where business boomed after tax was lowered and actually more money was made from tax thereafter as more people were in a position to pay tax.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@88baxter88 hey i saw the documentary as well. There is NO way to pay back the debt except to print money which would completely collapse the economy. The only way out is to pass a law abolishing the debt and then pass a law saying that all budgets must be balanced, that way people pay tax for services they receive the year that they receive them and therefore they feel how much they are being taxed against what level of service they are receiving.

[88baxter88]

@RevolutionaryJam Even if you were to hammer everyone for Tax in the country, poorest hard, 99% Tax for multi-millionaires, it still would not solve the problem of the National Debt. The main thing is getting the private sector back to being bigger than the public sector and getting rid of all these pointless job titles.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@88baxter88 i don't agree with raising taxation anyway, it's not my point, my point is before going for services that people depend on we should cut things which are causing more problems like the wars, nuclear spending (weapons and energy), corporate welfare, etc. if after all that stuff we still need to cut then we can look at public services but lets not approach teh problem the wrong way round.

[AndreHiltre]

There will be NO cuts to front line services.

7,000,000 public sector jobs in the UK, but only 2,000,000 are front line, the rest are paper shufflers and bureaucrats.

We must stop fighting wars that have no benefit, either for Britain or Humanity.

We must also cut tax for wealthy, and remove tax completely for the poor, and empower people to set up their own businesses and actually create something.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@AndreHiltre 6,000 people own 70% of the land in this county, do you want to lower taxes for them?

[AndreHiltre]

@RevolutionaryJam

Lower taxes for everybody! No taxes for the poor and those starting out in business.

The reason is twofold: 1st that Government should not treat OUR money, the PEOPLE'S money so freely. They are temporary caretakers, not rulers. 2nd and most important economically, is that if the people have less tax, especially the wealthier people, then they will create more jobs, create more wealth and grow the economy. That benefits us ALL.

[Xssam11]

@AndreHiltre

no tax for the poor? if no tax for the poor, I as myself upper middle

class man shouldnt pay for them, i for myself would let a guy die

on a street because hes too lazy to get a job,

i agree with no tax for the poor IF middle class men stopped supporting them

the poor SHOULD not be lazy and should get jobs, so no tax for

them would help their daily lifes if middle class doesnt support them

i dont believe the lies about the rich helping the poor

[AndreHiltre]

@Xssam11

Thats right. We shouldnt be supporting lowlifes to have lots of children if they dont earn any money. No work, no bread is my motto.

If the upper and middle classes are taxed less then they will have more money to hire workers, to expand their businesses, to invest in smaller businesses: this means more jobs for the working class. And someone earning 20k should have to pay tax on such a small amount.

[why760nitro]

SPENDING CUTS?? the results of decades of i give you this liberalism you vote for me end result the ponzi scheme runs out of money

[RevolutionaryJam]

@why760nitro even if you're right do you not think it would be better to gradually phase these initiatives out so that people can adjust to the marketisation of those services rather than all of a sudden leaving the old, vulnerable and dependent, excuse my french, in the shit?

[WoodlandRavah]

"Warfare or Wellfare?: Disarmament for development in the 21st century.

A Human Security Approach - International Peace Bureau." - Some Book Cover

Nice Find... Domestic enemies indeed...

[mike21halkida]

The irony is that we spent so much money to protect our country and finally we surrendering to the IMF Due debts created by these costs

[mike21halkida]

greek goverments for over 30 years spend 7/10 of publick money for the army.

they say that we have to be ready  to defend our country from many fantastic enemies . the number of soldiers here in greece is between 120-150.000 ,this is huge number .

germany ,a country 10 times bigger than greece ,has about 200.000 soldiers. and we spend money for F16,patriots,S-300,frigates etc.

[mike21halkida]

here in greece , if we cut military cost , we'll solve about 80% of our problems

[RevolutionaryJam]

@mike21halkida thanks for the comment, can you tell me more about the nature of military spending in greece?

[meniasol]

file den einai alitheia.apo opou kai na kopsoume den linetai to provlima giati ta lefta tha pane se tsepes.den allazei o ellinas telika to mualo tou stin kompina kai ti remoula einai. den akous ti ginetai?kovoun apo tous misthous kai tis sintakseis px sti dei kai ta lefta pane se tsepes oxi stin apopliromi ton xreon...ki etsi ginetai me ola ta xrimata.den tha glitosoume pote...

[polor89]

@mike21halkida an stamatisoume na xrimatodotoume to strato re kai na agorazoume exoplismo i tourkia tin epomeni mera tha exei ftasei exo apo tin athina

[RevolutionaryJam]

@USAdude30 thankyou for the kind comment! glad you liked the video!

[triforcelink]

why is nuclear unsustainable?

[RevolutionaryJam]

@triforcelink energy or weapons?

[triforcelink]

@RevolutionaryJam why is nuclear *energy* unsustainable?

[RevolutionaryJam]

@triforcelink 1) because the fuel is limited in supply

2) the waste products are extremely dangerous for tens of thousands of years and need to be disposed of somewhere

3) mining for the fuel has been an environmental disaster, which has destroyed the lands of native peoples like American Indians and Aboriginies. As supplies become rarer and rarer more sites need to be located for aquiring it at the expense of natural landscapes and indigenous peoples.

[triforcelink]

@RevolutionaryJam Do you think its less sustainable and more damaging than oil?

[RevolutionaryJam]

@triforcelink yes, even although oil is not ideal. A massive step would be to make industrial hemp legal, maybe even subsidise it in the short term, as it is very environmentally friendly to grow and can also be turned into a lot of products that are usually made from crude oil (including petrol) Industrial Hemp is maybe the no.1 environmental solution.

[elucidative]

I got an idea. Lets cut the bankers out of any payments to their usury interest and garnish all their money for stealing it. Garnish All the money that is connected to the Rothschilds because they are the terrorists and have been terrorists for hundreds perhaps thousands of years. There geneology goes back to Nero had Rome burned and blamed it on someone. The public school books printed by their legions of publishers all print lies that Nero was killed playing violin but he really escaped.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@elucidative sounds good

[rollsthepaul]

That which is coming, is much like what occurred, in the past. Families will look after families and governments will not do the function of caring for those, that can't care for themselves. Of course, governments are not working for the people; to think that they do is naive. The problems are spiraling out of control because more cost keeps being added, to every problem, like health care. This is unsustainable but of course wars will continue because it is for the benefit of the elite.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@rollsthepaul people are dependent on these services as it stands, sometimes for their life, if you want families to look after families, which I think is a lovely ideal, those values need to prized by the culture of our society which only breeds consumerism and sells fear of your neighbours. Destroying social programs all at once is not a very healthy way to do this, societies need time to adjust to changes do they not?

[sdfkjllshadflhadfshl]

watch?v=7gd6-zfeeaM&feature=pl­ayer_embedded

Great video on the state of spending in England. Like the USA< pretty much everything is on the table as spending needs to be halved across the board to even come close to being self sustaining.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@sdfkjllshadflhadfshl cheers!

[baihbalm]

nice vid

[IronicallyVague]

The problem is when the western world trys to pull back there will be a void, then it's only a matter of time before a "real" war breaks out..

I think your missing the real point & that is the current world events mean a major war is inevitable

[SharkTheArdvark]

I think government spending should be cut from the current wars, and the failed drug prohibition policies. However the rich influences the governments and so this is less likely to happen and neither would increasing of taxation on the rich few. The few who continue to benefit from wars and from drug prohibition would simply lose a great sum of money.

[pretorious700]

We may not agree on a lot of things, but I am 100% with you on these immoral, illegal military occupations. They are not "wars" in the traditional sense, that would imply that one side in the conflict has presented some meaningful threat to the other. They are geopolitical occupations with the intent of dominating resources and allowing the government to launder money through the "defense" budget. It's corrupt, perverse, and an abomination.

[BREDATOR1]

Thanks to capitalism you spoilt liberal twats see the world in rose tinted glasses. and can moan about crap . Try living in Russia and north korea.....etc.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@BREDATOR1 what a non sequeteur capitalism is not free speach

you forgot to mention capitalist Indonesia, capitalist Thailand, capitalist India, capitalist, capitalist brazil, or any of the otehr capitalist countries that are poor and falling apart under authoritarian governments

open up a book and read.

[Snagprophet]

You do know when the government says it is cutting military personnel it basically just means cooks, mechanics etc are just being civilianised, right?

I'd also agree on cutting nukes if everyone else with nukes agreed to get rid of them, otherwise there is no deterrant for these psychotic resemes like Iran and North Korea.

Also, we spend so much on health and education.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@Snagprophet hi thanks for your comment, our nuclear capability did not deter Argentina from invading the fawlklands even though we had the bomb and they didn't

also both North Korea and Iran have come out in FAVOUR of a nuclear convention (everyone getting rid of them) which UK, US, France, etc. have not agree to do!

I know this because I've been involved with the CND and the evidence is readily available from them if you want it

thanks again

[arthur1411]

Capitalism has many faults.

When you can show me an alternative I'll spend more time listening to your gripes.

In the meantime we have to put up with the shit that an imperfect system produces.

Regards.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@arthur1411 it's not about capitalism it's about stopping the wars before cutting services that people depend on

[TheAtheistworld]

u fuckin naive lunatics..

[mortegi]

Yes I agree with starting the cuts with the wars. Also I want to see cuts in the Open All Hours methodone programme....self inflicted no sympathy. Smakheads get it on a plate....that makes me angry.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@mortegi hi thanks for your comment, the evidence shows that providing junkies with free heroine is much cheaper than the alternative, which leads to prison sentences costly to the tax payer, thefts, damage to property, beligerant drug addicts on the streets and things like that

if you don't support the scheme out of compassion you shold consider supporting it out of practicality

in one scheme in Europe within a year half the junkies given free heroine stopped using of their own accord

[ThomasSheridanArts]

Same here in Ireland - this coupled with a media scare stories about the public health system. There is endless stories about how "dangerous" it is. This psychopathic journalism is mandated by psychopathic EU/Irish Gov to portray the health sevice as negative as possible so they can sell the hospitals off to big business at knock down rates.

[gauharjk]

The Military-Industrial Complex would be the last thing to go. It is a strong power-centre.

[asperin]

@spaceinvader79

I think you are "ignorant" of the fact that the benefits that some people might need can be given voluntarily. That is civilized, stealing from people to give it to others is not.

Companies pay little because workers agree to sell their labor for that price. No one is being forced by the employer to work, it all happens voluntarily.

[RevolutionaryJam]

but asperin, most of the 'civilised' history of humanity in the west consists of a bunch of rich aristocrats pissing around in big mansions having dinner parties and doing no work whatsoever (except claiming rent) while the working classes worked in horrendous, often dangerous conditions for long hours, for little pay, while living in abject poverty. What makes you think very rich people would volunteer anything? how do you know things wouldn't just go back to that way?

just asking

[asperin]

@RevolutionaryJam

But that is not what volunteering means. You are confusing volunteering mutually with compromising what is being allowed to you.

Forget the rich people for a second, focus on the workers and how most of them have very little respect for themselves. That is my point. People allow it to happen. Most workers resort to drugs, religion, sex and other life stimulants to ease the pain of the pathetic reality they bring on themselves.

Realize that and the solution will come by itself.

[btigtime2]

They are taking the money and giving it too bankers and profiteers. They are taking it for themselves and their wars. Continuing to build obsolete aircraft carriers and not buy planes to put on them is a real sign the governments of our world have gone nuts. American was founded because of the taxes to pay for wars they did not want or start.

[asperin]

Agreed with TimeWarp66. Cut a lot. Not just a section. Preferably enough to try to influence society to be self dependent when it comes to income. Govts have not tried to head towards that direction, on the contrary, they subsidize poverty by subsidizing the multiplication of ignorant people. Welfare is a war on success.

[TimeWarp66]

I agree with you about the military budget. Cut, cut, and cut some more. End our oversees empire. However, the vast majority of government spending goes to domestic social programs. Cutting the military is not nearly enough. These socialist programs have to go as well.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 question, well two similar questions actually, do you see any merit in any social program whatsoever and do you think social programs have any merit?

[TimeWarp66]

@RevolutionaryJam

Yes, I do. I believe programs for the disabled, unemployed, or people who, through no fault of their own are unable to provide for themselves.

Just because you turn 65, should not entitle you to some program. When Bill Gates turns 65, working poor people will be paying his social security and medical expenses. It's absurd. These programs need to be means tested or they inevitably go broke.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 the conservative counter arguments are:

1) that Bill Gates has payed lots of tax and is entitled to a pension same as everybody else

2) that means testing pensions will discourage people from being responsible and putting money away for their old age

just putting that out there, thanks for your comments!

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 what do you think of this video? not saying I agree with everything but he puts up strong arguments

watch?v=DDAcauc1SZY&feature=pl­ayer_embedded#!

[TimeWarp66]

@RevolutionaryJam

I 100% disagree with this young man. We need to keep these types of riots (which inevitably stem from socialist programs going bankrupt) out of the United States.

In the US we pay for our higher education so that it is valued. Going to college is not a human right. Only 25% of people have 4 year degrees. So you are forcing 75% of the population to subsidize something they themselves gain no benefit from.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66

I can see your argument I don't necessarily disagree with you

I personally think somewhere in between would be good for the interim, if students would pay a percentage of their education then they will appreciate the value of their education and demand their moneys worth

I'd be willing to pay some money towards finishing my degree I simply couldn't afford to pay the last year and a half in it's entirety and I intend to do an extra year of teacher training

[Kinkspace]

@RevolutionaryJam If we all had a different value system they would value education whether they paid for it or not. Unfortunately life is cheep words are cheaper still and wisdom is no where to be seen.

Lets start with Trident: Wikki: The total acquisition cost of the Trident programme was £9.8 billion, or £14.9 billion at 2005 prices, 38% of which was incurred in the U.S. In 2005/2006, ...

cont...

[Kinkspace]

@RevolutionaryJam annual expenditure for running and capital costs was estimated at between £1.2bn and £1.7bn and was estimated to rise to £2bn to £2.2bn in 2007/2008, including Atomic Weapons Establishment costs. Since Trident became operational in 1994, annual expenditure has ranged between 3% and 4.5% of the annual defence budget, and was expected to increase to 5.5% of the defence budget by 2007/2008.

cont...

[Kinkspace]

@RevolutionaryJam People might also want to start asking about: The Ministry of Defence, a company, is also traded as the B I S. Could this be the Bank for International Settlements?

I have been trying all the usual sources from the inside out and there must be a D notice on it as I just get nothing, not even a denial.

[Kinkspace]

@RevolutionaryJam If it is there are serious implications of motive concerning the present state of the world banking crisis and what it is reliant on. Blood money.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 the counter argument is that the country as a whole benefits from having people with a rich education who can put those skills to use in creating jobs and competing on an international market

another argument is that because they are better educated they will get better jobs and pay more tax

there is also the argument that "the humanities" are important for building a rich culture

finally there is the egalitarian argument, that if students have to pay only the rich get educated

[TimeWarp66]

@RevolutionaryJam

How about only poor kids get subsidized rather then everyone? Why should tax payers help pay for people who can afford to pay for themselves? I would agree to that form of compromise.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 hey TimeWarp it sounds good but then people from better incomes start complianing that it's unfair treatment across the board, their parents start saying whats the point in them working and paying tax if their children don't benefit from them paying into they system

it seems no system keeps everyone happy

[TimeWarp66]

@RevolutionaryJam

Well they wouldn't be paying such high taxes, so they'd have less to complain about.

Or we can just have a free market economy where their are so many jobs and so much opportunity a college degree is not essential to becoming middle class.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 it's a hard case to sell to the public because for most of the history of humanity - up until not that long ago at all in the grand scheme of things! - education was the preserve of the rich. Now that everyone has had access to the privelage for some decades they are very reluctant to let go of that advantage, especially since all the politicians making the cuts had access to free education and living allowances etc, back then of course only 10% of people went to uni.

[TimeWarp66]

@RevolutionaryJam

I reject the premise that without government intervention the poor would be left uneducated with no upward mobility. In Africa today, you can be educated for a few dollars a month. Their would be so many non for profit schools out their if the government would just step out of the way!

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 I wish I had your optimism, history says that when the gov didn't educate the poor hardly anyone ever did, well, sometimes religious institutions did because then they could turn them into chuch goers, or the workhouse took them in because it was cheap labour for a bit of gruel, they didn't wear shoes

having said that i don't agree that the state provides education, it's mostly indoctrination until the university level where they teach a bit of critical thinking

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 also education in Africa is so cheap because everyone is so damn poor! Most people don't have access to education, if you visited the towns you would be appauled at the poverty and the conditions people live in

I'd like to think that there is a better solution to every problem than gov but I have to say that for things like living conditions, sanitation, etc. before gov stepped in in this country the state most poor people lived in this country was appauling, 11 to a tiny room etc

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 ...it's interesting hearing peoples views though. My Grandma, who has been a conservative voter her whole life (and is in her 90s!) was saying tonight that she thinks it's terrible that, although every year in their manifestos politicians are say education! education! education!, they are limiting the access of what she described as keen individuals to higher education...

I think if cuts are to be made they should be phased in so we can guage the results and see the plan is working

[TimeWarp66]

@RevolutionaryJam

The very idea of cuts to programs like medicare freaks out even the staunchest conservatives in the United States. It's irrational and I disagree with it. It creates a culture of dependency and unrealistic expectations of government. Making it almost impossible to dismantle or even modify these programs.

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66 yes I know that the medicare and medicaid programs in the states ended up making health costs spiral out of control, but we have a universal healthcare system in the UK and it is a valued institution even by the staunchest of conservatives it's considered to be something truly "british" an object of pride

it is by no means perfect, personally I think if they got rid of the beaurocratic class and let the nurses and doctors run their own hospitals the results would be better+cheaper

[RevolutionaryJam]

@TimeWarp66

I can personally say that when I was at college I knew people from lower income backgrounds who got bursaries IN ADDITION to their education paid, which I was not elligible for since my dad was then on a considerable middle class income, and many of them spent the money on weed, so I felt unfairly treated, I don't really agree with those means tested bursaries, if the gov is going to spend the money they should only pay travel fees, rent, food etc. not just sign direct debits