@VikingTactics In an CQB scenario where you don't have a chance to look down your sights. In a scenario where the flight or fight response is activated. The ciliary muscle becomes relaxed due to an adrenaline dump triggered by the ancient human flight or fight survival mechanism. And the shape of the eye lens will be thin for focusing on objects that are not up close, causing your sight picture to become out of focus, and a 70% reduction in peripheral vision.
@billyshob The point and shoot method of shooting in a CQB situation has been referenced in many books dating all the way back to 1804 and mentioned in ,1810,1816,1829,1835,1870,1885,1898,1900,1903,1912,1915,1917,1918,1920,1921,1922,1925,1926,1927,1929,1941. It is also specifically referred to in U.S. Patents: 694969, 896099, 2109993, 2270707, and 5166459. In addition, it is directly mentioned in the US Army's 2003 Field Manual 3-23.35: Combat Training With Pistols M9 and M11.
@billyshob "Everyone has the ability to point at an object."..."When a soldier points, he instinctively points at the feature on the object on which his eyes are focused. An impulse from the brain causes the arm and hand to stop when the finger reaches the proper position."..."When the eyes are shifted to a new object or feature, the finger, hand, and arm also shift to this point."..."It is this inherent trait that can be used by a soldier to rapidly and accurately engage targets."
@billyshob However...there is a time and a place for everything. Conditions dictate which method to use and P&S shooting should not be a shooters soul and only method of self defense training.
This argument is so tired.......if point shooting worked beyond 2 yards or so , the manufacturers would quit putting sights on handguns and stop spending money on steel and polymer for sights. I have yet to meet a so called "point shooter" that can keep consistent groups at any range.
Kyle, I love your videos. When i graduate high school i will be joining the Army as a Ranger. I would really love to work all the way up to CAG/ 1st SFOD-D. And i believe in myself. I am doing several of your drills and they have helped big time, Thanks so much and got a question on grips. Should i use a vertical fore grip or an angled one like the Magpul AFG. Thanks so much and best of wishes to you.
Sheesh, amen. You are absolutely correct. I am so sick and tired of the crap that people are putting out. 9 times out of 10, the majority of the BS TTPs that people are falling for come from guys who have only recently started to shoot at steel and paper and have never had to shoot at something that can and is shooting back. The only reason why their BS videos and range sessions sells is because it usually accompanies emotional background music and beards.
Point shooting is actually proven, there has never been any argument that sights are valid on the continuum. But at 0-15 feet there is almost no need for sights. The average home owner in their 12-14 foot rooms, at the ATM and most common situations will not be shooting at 30 feet. The industry should not be trying to train average people like they are LEOs and commandos. This message does a huge diservice to point shooting which may actually save more lives that sight shooting.
Could not agree more! Point shooting sounds like an excuse for bad marksmanship... we should have no tolerance for paying our people (LE-MIL) and not expect them to be at least above average shooters. I have seen sooo many Marines who can not shoot it is horrible. I have even seen infantry guys with a shot pattern that looks like a shotgun. So sad. Accountability for all rounds and the fundamentals applied to every shot is the ONLY way to shoot.
The point shooter will have 2 shots off before you even align your sights. Point shooting is for 21' or less, not longer shots or sniper shots. Police officers are trained at using sights but only have about a 20% hit rate.
Your also ignoring the fact that your body will physically shut down and gross motor skills will take over.
The point shooter will have 2 shots off before you even align your sights. Point shooting is for 21' or less, not longer shots or sniper shots. Police officers are trained at using sights but only have about a 20% hit rate.
Your also ignoring the fact that your body will physically shut down and gross motor skills will take over.
Kyle. I was taught to point shoot at schools such as Gryphon Group. They are a good bunch of guys but they have adopted the point shooting methodology for active shooter scenarios. Then I went to a course with Brian Searcy and his guys at TSI and, because you all were from the same tribe, was hammered with the 100% round accountability, sight focused methodology. I was impressed with their style and intend to drop all point shooting TTPs for my unit. Thanks for your always great insight.
i hope you'll trust me on this & check out lahner tactical concepts,0-5M mil/pol wpns trng specialists.they are probably on to something,as bad as the super-close glock-work looks.also,have you guys evaluated any laser sight claims (for already-trained shooters) in various applications?
Have a question about tactical reloads that i've been meaning to understand SGM, your feedback is much appreciated. Should we really be pinching mags in the so called 'LUL' of a gunfight and topping our guns using the the 'tactical' reload? from what i know old school war horses who's been there done that said just do a speed(combat) reload in cover(by team or enviroment) regardless of the round count in ur gun and pick up the old mag if you have the luxury, I think thats more close to(see prt 2
@TheSafetysoff ..(part 2) reality. But the current school of thought is very convincing, its not like i've been in a dozen prolonged gunfights so i won't have any idea..I know i won't be doing a tactical reload if i need to top my gun, i will just do a speed reload and muzzle back to the threat area as soon as possible ready to obtain a sight picture, or am i dead wrong? but i cannot find any real accounts that a tac reload got the job done in the real world..Your feedback is much appreciated..
@TheSafetysoff I feel that all situations are slightly different,, but I agree with you on this one. I do a quick mag change, then pick up the mag off the ground when finished. That is truly tatical.
Bottom line its common sense at close range to point shoot because it is efficient and fast. What bothers me the most about your drills is not the absence of point shooting but rather staying on the X during an engagement. You are setting your students up for disaster sir.
@MChaseMc ...You have misunderstood Mr. Lamb's reason for advocating sighted shooting and his revolutionary(in my opinion) drills, his drills are drills not scenarios. He is a real deal gunfighter who actually had firefights in places 'we' can only brag on based on theory, he's been there and can tell you which peeble on the ground is loose(based on what i know)..What he's saying is just common sense reinforced with real world accounts.
@TheSafetysoff Practice and training is what we revert to during gunfights, this "his drills are drills not scenarious" attitude is what i would expect. I' m not questioning him personally im sure he is a great guy. I'm talking about his methods. When you train or "drill" to stand on the X and return sighted fire at bad breathe range, that is how you will respond in a gunfight.
@MChaseMc ..No worries mate, ask a kid to shoot you in the face with an airsoft or a paintball gun. How you think you would react when he start raises his muzzle at you? You won't stand there won't you? same thing here mate. Have you been in a shooting? not a single person will be stationary, trained or not, people will go crazy and even run in front ur muzzle pushing you to get away from the shooting area, if ur job really need u to return fire, you have no choice but to use sights to shoot.
Standing static on the X during an engagement is the quickest way to get shot. Explain to me how during a gunfight getting off the X drawing your weapon simultaneously and putting rounds on target is not beneficial 0 - 10 yards?
@MChaseMc ..Get this, there is over 6 BILLION people on earth, the chances of you employing a weapon system when theres other people around is very real. Are you a responsible human being going to center the gun to your body or face without knowing for sure(I mean a 100 PERCENT sure) where the muzzle is pointing and pull the trigger into a potential crowd of people with the bad guy in it? Sights line up to your shooting eyes is a 100 PERCENT. I rather get killed than murder innocent bystanders.
First,I think you are doing a great job at misrepresenting what point shooting is about. 0-10 yards getting off the X and the muzzle on the threat. After looking at more of your videos and drills that you have outlined, those drills may be good for range time but not for gun fighting.
I've been an LE firearms instructor for many years and from my experience isn't necessarily a trained tactic as much as it is the nature of the beast. We always train to use your sights, but the reality is under stress, particularly when a shooter is being shot at, regardless of his training, he is going to point shoot. I have read several studies that analyzed officer-involved shooting data and concluded that overwhelmingly, officers don't use their sights when they are in a CQB gunfight.
I've been an LE firearms instructor for many years and from my experience isn't necessarily a trained tactic as much as it is the nature of the beast. We always train to use your sights, but the reality is under stress, particularly when a shooter is being shot at, regardless of his training, he is going to point shoot. I have read several studies that analyzed officer-involved shooting data and concluded that overwhelmingly, officers doing use their sights when they are in a CQB gunfight.
Howe's method (as best I understand it) equates to 100m hits by lollipopping on the FSP, and closing in with 25m hits at POA. as I understand, his plan is easier eye relief for longer ranges, and more intuitive holds.
Trying to integrate the advice of two Great shooters… and my Zero is bedrock. What are your thoughts?
@torinhill The more space between your optics and bore the farther out you should zero.
If you zero an ACOG on a Carry handle at 25 M you will be 18 inches high at 100M, not cool for any kind of work. I prefer a 50/200 simply because it is easier to hit at all other ranges. 25M zero is going to put you high at 100M even if you are shooting iron sights. How high is determined by your ammo of course.
Keep your target in mind as well. A threats face at 5-300 Meters.
I have a solution on this issue(argument), lets say if you miss, the whole world blows up, lets say if you must hit your target or your wife will get sold to a third world country as a sex slave. What method should i rely my life, my love ones life on? the innovative very high speed point shoot? HELL NO! if i use my sights, I will know where every single round is going(hold high in CQB if using tall sights) to hit. I think that answers which one is better.
i can tell you i have been point shooting since the age of about 10 and im 50 now.and 9 out of 10 times under 10 yards i will hat center mass with a Dbl tap. no i have never had to do it under a life and death situation but i think it would be just fine.some of my range buddy's are against point shooting but i out shoot them 3-4 shoots every time.by the time they have a site pic i have 3-4 shots away with 3 hitting there mark.i for one think it works great.if i had time to use my sites i would
Point shooting has its place, no doubt. Point shooting is not just shooting in random directions and hoping you hit. It doesn't preclude you from knowing where your shots are going.
Shooting, like all things in life, has a spectrum that goes between calm, premeditated, timed site shooting and the other end of pure reactionary shooting from whatever position you find yourself in and wherever the bad guy happens to be. I'll practice all along the spectrum. You're all welcome to pick only 1 spot.
I find it disconcerting that an instructor of your calibre would completely discount/ignore point shooting as a valuable tool in defensive firearms training. You are doing a discredit to your students by not being progressive in what you teach them.
Perhaps if you would attend a Point Shooting class you'd have a better understanding of what is being taught and it's effectiveness.
@grizzerr Well, that's probably because he has actually shot people who were trying to kill him. If you've ever trained with Kyle, you'll know that he acknowledges point shooting as important(as he does in this video) If the target is close enough to grab your gun, point shooting will generally do the trick. Beyond that is where things get slippery if you ignore your sights.
I'm pretty sure he has been to a number of training classes and has been exposed to point shooting. I find it disconcerting that you think you're in a position to post what you posted.
@grizzerr Incorporating point shooting may at times be appropriate on the battlefield, where your target's backdrop can often times simply be more targets; no harm, no foul.
However, for LEOs and civilians using their weapons in a non-battlefield situation, target backdrop plays a much bigger, and more important role.
Of course, if you would save your own life even at the expense of a neighbor, child, mailman, etc., then keep pointing and shooting. ;-)
@grizzerr he is saying only in the most intense situation should you point shoot any other situation you should be looking down your site ... and I think everyone can agree better accuracy better results
@grizzerr Teaching point shooting wouldn't exactly be "progressive". The unit that KL served in, Delta/CAG, originally utilized point shooting techniques but abandoned them in favor of utilizing the pistol's sights.
Point shooting is probably fine for the average cop, citizen or infantryman. However, for units such as CAG/DevGru/SWAT, point shooting can't guarantee the accuracy that is necessary to safely deal with hostage situations.
@apw100 , I can agree with that in reference to SPECOPS and SWAT. I believe the precision shot is important for all shooters, but it doesn't apply in every situation.Training in both precision and point shooting are important because the situation will dictate which you use.
@ColdWarScout Do you think those skills are perishable under stress? Take a look at some shootings on video, you'll see the general results of point shooting at distance.
I've almost stopped reading the posts people right after watching these videos. But sometimes it's like a trainwreck, and I cannot look away. Novice shooters, who probably can't shoot to any level worth speaking of, and who know nothing about Kyle Lamb critique his skills and he FREE advice. I'm not gonna' write what Mr Lamb wouldn't want me to, guys like him don't want that, but believe me, he was a member of THE PREMIER Tier 1 Unit in existence. Men like Mr Lamb establish the US as the best.
Mr. Lamb... Can you share your thoughts as to how this way of shooting cam to be?Do you think it was a lack of a quick sight picture, or just laziness when it wasn't deemed a need to remember the basic fundamentals?
Listen all of you detractors (in particular LEO who think that being in a SWAT unit is even remotely similar to being in a Tier 1 SMU). Debating CQB tactics, shooting tactics etc with Kyle Lamb is like debating with Mike Tyson about the effects of an upper cut. Hope this helps you all, bc some of you need it. Gotta love the internet a place where someone who is not even in a tier (a LEO) can argue with the best of the best.
@kimball902 You hit it on the head my man.....ludicrous. These Joe Swat guys, huh? Gotta love em.....this is why the Police/Sheriff Departments are sneered at in alot of communities today. Unadulterated passion for themselves and each other. What a joke.
Here's an idea, if you want to learn to point shoot then practice while using your sights. Hand/eye coordination will be learned faster when you see where your weapon is pointing. A plus is you might forget that you're point shooting and actually look at your sights because you've done it over and over in practice.
Hello Mr. Lamb, I just bought your book, "green eyes and black rifles". I simply can not put it down once I started reading. I'm thinking about joining the army soon and I can use all the information I can get. A quick question though, what do you think about the bad lever made by magpul? Do you think its something you'll use? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
@yenhan705eh77 Not really sure on the BAD lever yet. I have tried it and get a little confused, but some of that is all of the prior training I have without it. We will see. I have had several students that like them.
point shooting is only good if you're in really close quarters and dont have time to aquire your sight picture. SWAT at my local sheriff's department still trains you to deliberately aim down the sights in room clearing scenarios. i totally agree with kyle in this one.
im no expert, but in a CQB enviroment, actually, when you breach a room, you point at a possible threat, finger stil not on the trigger yet, if its a threat, finger is placed on the trigger, at the same time eyes is focused on the sights, lastly then pull the trigger(all this happens in least than 2 or close to 3 seconds, depends on the situation)..Point shooting is a crash course, to make the average man combat effective as fast as possible, its irresponsible to point shoot in the real world.
@TheSafetysoff - ok we should get together with some air soft, and see if you can acquire your sights when im stabbing you in the neck. Lets see how well your sights work then.
I believe that both methods must be taught, especially in law enforcement. There is a place for sighted fire when YOU own the time. When your waiting for the bank robber to come out, etc. But look at the stats. 85% of all officers feloniously shot are within ten feet. No time for sights not to mention tunnel vision, adrenaline and other physical effects of the body. More importantly officers are only hitting the subjects at approximately 7-9%. Yet suspects are hitting officers at 15-18%.
I'd suggest you take a Threat Focused Class..under fire in defensive situation for your average every day concealed carry guy/gal, they will never see the sights when the adrenaline dumps..if you've taken fire as you say you would know this..Combat in a war zone is very different than civilian carry where fights are going to happen at bad breath distance...Point shooting can be very accurate out to 15-20' if you know what you're doing..
That's what happens in combat. You point shoot. Aimed fire rarely happens in close combat situations. Sights on a pistol within 15 yards are not necessary. If you are running a combat gun in a combat situation, you'll never see the sights in an encounter anyway. Try removing them and run a course of fire. Only hits count, accuracy will follow with practice.
well in special forces they teach point shooting, in close quarters 5 yards or so, if they use it, then i would say its not a bad method, 5 yards i can fire and hit exactly where im looking, the sights are in my peripherial but im focoused on where i want that bullet to go
Absolutely. As you said, "5 yards i can fire and hit exactly where im looking, the sights are in my peripherial."
That is the point, you ARE using your sights. Preachers of point shooting do not use sights and do not bring the weapon between their eyes and the target.
thanks for posting this video it answered quite a few of my questions in regard to point shooting. i am part of a police dept that is growing and it is nice to be able to reap the benefit of someone who has actual real world knowledge on subjects such as this. this is a video that i am going to recommend this video to our newer officers. thanks again
@VikingTactics In both the video and the above comment you seem to be attacking a straw man. I could be described as a 'preacher of point shooting' (though I preach the need for sighted fire skills as well). When I point shoot I bring the pistol up eye level when possible and use the sights as reference points in my peripheral vision even when focused on the target. Point shooting does not mean ignoring all visual feedback from the gun, it means seeing as much as you need to see.
@VikingTactics In both the video and the above comment you seem to be attacking a straw man. I could be described as a 'preacher of point shooting' (though I preach the need for sighted fire skills as well). When I point shoot I bring the pistol up eye level when possible and use the sights as reference points in my peripheral vision even when focused on the target. Point shooting does not mean ignoring all visual feedback from the gun, it means seeing as much as you need to see.
The truth is, one should train both methods point shooting/site shooting. If only the bad guys are in front of me, I don't need to "AIM" my weapon...I will hit him(taking aim takes a fraction of time longer)...however, in a hostage situation you should aim...surgical shootng. Both methods have pros and cons. I say train both.
dalton- If aiming w/ sights only takes a fraction of a second longer why not use those big helpful sights and or dots you paid for? I agree you will hit him but where?The one thing you don't have time to do in a fight is miss. How will you know if only bad guys are in front? What if some other unidentified folks show up? At what distance(s) do you start asking yourself " Let me see here do I want to use sights or not on this problem?"
The truth is, one should train both methods point shooting/site shooting. If only the bad guys are in front of me, I don't need to "AIM" my weapon...I will hit him(taking aim takes a fraction of time longer)...however, in a hostage situation you should aim...surgical shootng. Both methods have pros and cons. I say train both.
If it is important to place your shot(s) precisely in a known hostage situation so that you only hit the bad guy in a specific spot and no one else. Then why isn't still important to shoot precisely otherwise
If you want accurate point shoot, get a crimson laser. Point shooting I feel should be practiced at close ranges 5-10 feet. If a threat is charging you without a weapon drawn, you will be shooting from under your arm pit if you can not distance yourself. If your doing the hunting then you can use your sights, but if the bad guy has the drop on you, totally different story. My opinion.
hi jim, i wana know if how do they do the instictive shooting.. whats the procedure? i am a long gunner in my team, thats y i should watch the cross hair, but i also have a prior training in CQB, and i want to know the technique in instinctive shooting. if you know something about it, it would realy help me
People have been killing small animals and hitting each other in the head at medium distances with arrows, spears, and rocks for thousands of years without the aid of sights. Skilled paintball players have proven they can score accurate hits on less experienced players like me to 50 feet without sights.
Eye-hand coordination will always be a very important attribute for close range shooting where in most cases eyes focus on the threat, even if it's an alien concept to shooting instructors.
Is this a joke? Kyle doesn't train "skilled paintball players" so they can win arguments about hitting their buddies first. He trains elite Law Enforcement and Military personnel who are operating in environments where lives hang in the balance. The same environment where he spent much of his military career. Comparing that to paintball or massed warfare (which was swept from the battlefield by accurate weapons and effective sights, by the way) is goofy.
i think you should train sights if you have them, then you'll instinctive shoot better anyways, not that i think accurate weapons outsmart AK47s, just why ignore the sights purposedly?
Keep in mind pro paintball players walk the trigger, they have designated lanes to shoot. while with real guns, not the case. we cant walk the trigger and hold down a lane. We have to use our sights
Most people trained or not, fail to use their sights in reactive shooting at handgun ranges.
you can call those who acknowledge this fact in their training "paintball pansies" all you want, but it will remain true.
As to the guy who mentioned "walking the trigger", pro players usually hit on target with their first shot. "FfullF" is probably some kid who dropped out of paintball because he couldn't take the sting of running around on a hot day and getting shot.
hi james, your right about what you said. and thats what my american instructors told me too. watch the cross hair and the front sight. but what i wana know if how do they do the instictive shooting.. whats the procedure? i am a long gunner in my team, thats y i should watch the cross hair, but i also have a prior training in CQB, and i want to know the technique in instinctive shooting. if you know something about it, it would realy help me
I've worked with organizations that have actually taken away the scoring rings so any hits, anywhere on the target, count.
I have also witnessed organizations that practice instinctive shooting in a CQB environment and, while this may be fine in an all-threat setting, it is unacceptable during hostage rescue operations.
When I hear students explain their poor fundamentals as, "well, we point shoot," I know there's a problem that needs to be addressed.
@VikingTactics ive commented on this video before but i saw this comment and i was reading a book caled inside delta force, i dont know if you are fimiliar with it but its about the formation of delta force, they said that their primary shooting method was institive shooting, even in a hostage situation when clearing rooms he said it required you to look at people rather than the sights as you have to be able to determine who is who, just wanted your thoughts on that
@VikingTactics the info proboly is but unless theyre lying to which i highly doubt that they used that method for years and i doubt much has changed, and deltas one of the top groups in the world for close combat and what he said makes a lot of sense about how when clearly a room you have too look at the people to determine who is the good or bad guys, and to do that who have too look people rather than your sights, of course all these guys did 8 hours a day for months was burn lots of ammo
@steven4570 I don't mean to sound condescending here...but imagine that, after reading a book about Delta Force (written by someone who was in the unit years in the past), you started disagreeing with someone who had served over 12 years in the unit, ran their shooting program, retired last year as a SGM after serving multiple tours in Iraq, and still provides training to both them and the Special Forces community. Who do you think might have the more informed opinion in such a debate?
@tmfrmk im not disagreeing, im merely pointing out that the method they used and what the opinions are on it, they used it for years which was very effective, and now everyone dismisses it. they way i see point shooting is the only thing you change is where your looking, how you hold the gun and all the fundementals are the same, it all comes with practice with any method, just because im not looking at my sights doesnt mean im not aiming
As you stated, this is an acquired skill (properly learned, it is "AIMED" fire).
We work with shooters in our courses who sometimes receive only 8 hours of firearms training in a year. That amount of time would be much better spent learning to look at sights instead of struggling to learn instinctive shooting.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
IMO if you train at point shooting and you are effiective at doing it, then there is no saftey issue involved. Obviousely if you have not trained yourself to point shoot, then you would be foolish to try it in the event you have to use your weapon in self defense.
It's better to just panic and pull the trigger until the mag is empty. Oh yea, make sure you scream real loud like in the movies.
cutmonn 4 days ago
@VikingTactics In an CQB scenario where you don't have a chance to look down your sights. In a scenario where the flight or fight response is activated. The ciliary muscle becomes relaxed due to an adrenaline dump triggered by the ancient human flight or fight survival mechanism. And the shape of the eye lens will be thin for focusing on objects that are not up close, causing your sight picture to become out of focus, and a 70% reduction in peripheral vision.
billyshob 6 days ago
@billyshob The point and shoot method of shooting in a CQB situation has been referenced in many books dating all the way back to 1804 and mentioned in ,1810,1816,1829,1835,1870,1885,1898,1900,1903,1912,1915,1917,1918,1920,1921,1922,1925,1926,1927,1929,1941. It is also specifically referred to in U.S. Patents: 694969, 896099, 2109993, 2270707, and 5166459. In addition, it is directly mentioned in the US Army's 2003 Field Manual 3-23.35: Combat Training With Pistols M9 and M11.
billyshob 6 days ago
@billyshob "Everyone has the ability to point at an object."..."When a soldier points, he instinctively points at the feature on the object on which his eyes are focused. An impulse from the brain causes the arm and hand to stop when the finger reaches the proper position."..."When the eyes are shifted to a new object or feature, the finger, hand, and arm also shift to this point."..."It is this inherent trait that can be used by a soldier to rapidly and accurately engage targets."
billyshob 6 days ago
@billyshob However...there is a time and a place for everything. Conditions dictate which method to use and P&S shooting should not be a shooters soul and only method of self defense training.
billyshob 6 days ago
I was hoping that he was just going to say "don't."
boxdoutfoot 1 week ago
........You have a really nice home.
LaRueDeeko 1 week ago
KL, Very good video and thoughts on a controversial issue. Thank you.
DamoclesCH 1 month ago
This argument is so tired.......if point shooting worked beyond 2 yards or so , the manufacturers would quit putting sights on handguns and stop spending money on steel and polymer for sights. I have yet to meet a so called "point shooter" that can keep consistent groups at any range.
scdefion 1 month ago
Kyle, I love your videos. When i graduate high school i will be joining the Army as a Ranger. I would really love to work all the way up to CAG/ 1st SFOD-D. And i believe in myself. I am doing several of your drills and they have helped big time, Thanks so much and got a question on grips. Should i use a vertical fore grip or an angled one like the Magpul AFG. Thanks so much and best of wishes to you.
gunsgalore762 1 month ago
@gunsgalore762 I would use whatever feels best to you. The way I hold my weapon, either would work until I need my light.
KL
VikingTactics 1 month ago
Sheesh, amen. You are absolutely correct. I am so sick and tired of the crap that people are putting out. 9 times out of 10, the majority of the BS TTPs that people are falling for come from guys who have only recently started to shoot at steel and paper and have never had to shoot at something that can and is shooting back. The only reason why their BS videos and range sessions sells is because it usually accompanies emotional background music and beards.
kalima275 2 months ago
I hope that several of you don't shoot as poorly as you type your uneducated responses to the advice of a world class operator!
Sir: Thanks for all you do, and all you've done.
jrdirtjumper 2 months ago
Point shooting is actually proven, there has never been any argument that sights are valid on the continuum. But at 0-15 feet there is almost no need for sights. The average home owner in their 12-14 foot rooms, at the ATM and most common situations will not be shooting at 30 feet. The industry should not be trying to train average people like they are LEOs and commandos. This message does a huge diservice to point shooting which may actually save more lives that sight shooting.
GeorgiaShooter 3 months ago
Could not agree more! Point shooting sounds like an excuse for bad marksmanship... we should have no tolerance for paying our people (LE-MIL) and not expect them to be at least above average shooters. I have seen sooo many Marines who can not shoot it is horrible. I have even seen infantry guys with a shot pattern that looks like a shotgun. So sad. Accountability for all rounds and the fundamentals applied to every shot is the ONLY way to shoot.
usmcboyer 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i point shoot with my bb gun.
TacticalAngel86 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i point shoot with my bb gun.
TacticalAngel86 5 months ago
i point shoot with my bb gun.
TacticalAngel86 5 months ago
i don't even point shoot in airsoft why would you train law enforcement
CottonEyeJenkins 5 months ago
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The point shooter will have 2 shots off before you even align your sights. Point shooting is for 21' or less, not longer shots or sniper shots. Police officers are trained at using sights but only have about a 20% hit rate.
Your also ignoring the fact that your body will physically shut down and gross motor skills will take over.
southchatham 5 months ago
The point shooter will have 2 shots off before you even align your sights. Point shooting is for 21' or less, not longer shots or sniper shots. Police officers are trained at using sights but only have about a 20% hit rate.
Your also ignoring the fact that your body will physically shut down and gross motor skills will take over.
southchatham 5 months ago
We teach Applegate-style point-shooting and here is what I've learned over the years:
In the early stages, we learn to shoot using our eyes.
After some experience, we confirm, with our eyes, what we feel.
Later, we learn to shoot by, and trust, what we feel.
Dark, hurt, blind, whatever: Learn to shoot by feel and you'll have the most advantages in a bad situation.
Just my $.02...
badkarmaiii 6 months ago
Kyle. I was taught to point shoot at schools such as Gryphon Group. They are a good bunch of guys but they have adopted the point shooting methodology for active shooter scenarios. Then I went to a course with Brian Searcy and his guys at TSI and, because you all were from the same tribe, was hammered with the 100% round accountability, sight focused methodology. I was impressed with their style and intend to drop all point shooting TTPs for my unit. Thanks for your always great insight.
MountainBum7 6 months ago
i hope you'll trust me on this & check out lahner tactical concepts,0-5M mil/pol wpns trng specialists.they are probably on to something,as bad as the super-close glock-work looks.also,have you guys evaluated any laser sight claims (for already-trained shooters) in various applications?
aptcmpasion 6 months ago
Have a question about tactical reloads that i've been meaning to understand SGM, your feedback is much appreciated. Should we really be pinching mags in the so called 'LUL' of a gunfight and topping our guns using the the 'tactical' reload? from what i know old school war horses who's been there done that said just do a speed(combat) reload in cover(by team or enviroment) regardless of the round count in ur gun and pick up the old mag if you have the luxury, I think thats more close to(see prt 2
TheSafetysoff 8 months ago
@TheSafetysoff ..(part 2) reality. But the current school of thought is very convincing, its not like i've been in a dozen prolonged gunfights so i won't have any idea..I know i won't be doing a tactical reload if i need to top my gun, i will just do a speed reload and muzzle back to the threat area as soon as possible ready to obtain a sight picture, or am i dead wrong? but i cannot find any real accounts that a tac reload got the job done in the real world..Your feedback is much appreciated..
TheSafetysoff 8 months ago
@TheSafetysoff I feel that all situations are slightly different,, but I agree with you on this one. I do a quick mag change, then pick up the mag off the ground when finished. That is truly tatical.
Kyle
VikingTactics 8 months ago
@VikingTactics ...Thank you for taking the time to reply to our questions, on behalf of all average man, i thank you..
TheSafetysoff 8 months ago
Bottom line its common sense at close range to point shoot because it is efficient and fast. What bothers me the most about your drills is not the absence of point shooting but rather staying on the X during an engagement. You are setting your students up for disaster sir.
MChaseMc 8 months ago
@MChaseMc ...You have misunderstood Mr. Lamb's reason for advocating sighted shooting and his revolutionary(in my opinion) drills, his drills are drills not scenarios. He is a real deal gunfighter who actually had firefights in places 'we' can only brag on based on theory, he's been there and can tell you which peeble on the ground is loose(based on what i know)..What he's saying is just common sense reinforced with real world accounts.
TheSafetysoff 8 months ago
@TheSafetysoff Practice and training is what we revert to during gunfights, this "his drills are drills not scenarious" attitude is what i would expect. I' m not questioning him personally im sure he is a great guy. I'm talking about his methods. When you train or "drill" to stand on the X and return sighted fire at bad breathe range, that is how you will respond in a gunfight.
MChaseMc 8 months ago
@MChaseMc ..No worries mate, ask a kid to shoot you in the face with an airsoft or a paintball gun. How you think you would react when he start raises his muzzle at you? You won't stand there won't you? same thing here mate. Have you been in a shooting? not a single person will be stationary, trained or not, people will go crazy and even run in front ur muzzle pushing you to get away from the shooting area, if ur job really need u to return fire, you have no choice but to use sights to shoot.
TheSafetysoff 8 months ago
Standing static on the X during an engagement is the quickest way to get shot. Explain to me how during a gunfight getting off the X drawing your weapon simultaneously and putting rounds on target is not beneficial 0 - 10 yards?
MChaseMc 8 months ago
@MChaseMc ..Get this, there is over 6 BILLION people on earth, the chances of you employing a weapon system when theres other people around is very real. Are you a responsible human being going to center the gun to your body or face without knowing for sure(I mean a 100 PERCENT sure) where the muzzle is pointing and pull the trigger into a potential crowd of people with the bad guy in it? Sights line up to your shooting eyes is a 100 PERCENT. I rather get killed than murder innocent bystanders.
TheSafetysoff 8 months ago
First,I think you are doing a great job at misrepresenting what point shooting is about. 0-10 yards getting off the X and the muzzle on the threat. After looking at more of your videos and drills that you have outlined, those drills may be good for range time but not for gun fighting.
MChaseMc 8 months ago
I've been an LE firearms instructor for many years and from my experience isn't necessarily a trained tactic as much as it is the nature of the beast. We always train to use your sights, but the reality is under stress, particularly when a shooter is being shot at, regardless of his training, he is going to point shoot. I have read several studies that analyzed officer-involved shooting data and concluded that overwhelmingly, officers don't use their sights when they are in a CQB gunfight.
OnRappel 9 months ago
I've been an LE firearms instructor for many years and from my experience isn't necessarily a trained tactic as much as it is the nature of the beast. We always train to use your sights, but the reality is under stress, particularly when a shooter is being shot at, regardless of his training, he is going to point shoot. I have read several studies that analyzed officer-involved shooting data and concluded that overwhelmingly, officers doing use their sights when they are in a CQB gunfight.
OnRappel 9 months ago
Had a question about zeroing, SGM.
As a proud owner of GEs&BRs, I know you're a proponent of the 200m BS0.
I'm trying to reconcile a 200m vice Howe's recommended 100m+3" zero.
Howe's method (as best I understand it) equates to 100m hits by lollipopping on the FSP, and closing in with 25m hits at POA. as I understand, his plan is easier eye relief for longer ranges, and more intuitive holds.
Trying to integrate the advice of two Great shooters… and my Zero is bedrock. What are your thoughts?
torinhill 10 months ago
@torinhill The more space between your optics and bore the farther out you should zero.
If you zero an ACOG on a Carry handle at 25 M you will be 18 inches high at 100M, not cool for any kind of work. I prefer a 50/200 simply because it is easier to hit at all other ranges. 25M zero is going to put you high at 100M even if you are shooting iron sights. How high is determined by your ammo of course.
Keep your target in mind as well. A threats face at 5-300 Meters.
Kyle
VikingTactics 9 months ago
I have a solution on this issue(argument), lets say if you miss, the whole world blows up, lets say if you must hit your target or your wife will get sold to a third world country as a sex slave. What method should i rely my life, my love ones life on? the innovative very high speed point shoot? HELL NO! if i use my sights, I will know where every single round is going(hold high in CQB if using tall sights) to hit. I think that answers which one is better.
dreamz0ne 10 months ago
wow 13 people in here dont like this?!
saltyninja01 10 months ago
i can tell you i have been point shooting since the age of about 10 and im 50 now.and 9 out of 10 times under 10 yards i will hat center mass with a Dbl tap. no i have never had to do it under a life and death situation but i think it would be just fine.some of my range buddy's are against point shooting but i out shoot them 3-4 shoots every time.by the time they have a site pic i have 3-4 shots away with 3 hitting there mark.i for one think it works great.if i had time to use my sites i would
O7ROADKING 10 months ago
Point shooting has its place, no doubt. Point shooting is not just shooting in random directions and hoping you hit. It doesn't preclude you from knowing where your shots are going.
Shooting, like all things in life, has a spectrum that goes between calm, premeditated, timed site shooting and the other end of pure reactionary shooting from whatever position you find yourself in and wherever the bad guy happens to be. I'll practice all along the spectrum. You're all welcome to pick only 1 spot.
caleqs 1 year ago 5
I find it disconcerting that an instructor of your calibre would completely discount/ignore point shooting as a valuable tool in defensive firearms training. You are doing a discredit to your students by not being progressive in what you teach them.
Perhaps if you would attend a Point Shooting class you'd have a better understanding of what is being taught and it's effectiveness.
grizzerr 1 year ago 15
@grizzerr Well, that's probably because he has actually shot people who were trying to kill him. If you've ever trained with Kyle, you'll know that he acknowledges point shooting as important(as he does in this video) If the target is close enough to grab your gun, point shooting will generally do the trick. Beyond that is where things get slippery if you ignore your sights.
joe4678 9 months ago
@grizzerr
I'm pretty sure he has been to a number of training classes and has been exposed to point shooting. I find it disconcerting that you think you're in a position to post what you posted.
tpd223 6 months ago
@grizzerr Incorporating point shooting may at times be appropriate on the battlefield, where your target's backdrop can often times simply be more targets; no harm, no foul.
However, for LEOs and civilians using their weapons in a non-battlefield situation, target backdrop plays a much bigger, and more important role.
Of course, if you would save your own life even at the expense of a neighbor, child, mailman, etc., then keep pointing and shooting. ;-)
jskchannel 2 months ago
@grizzerr he is saying only in the most intense situation should you point shoot any other situation you should be looking down your site ... and I think everyone can agree better accuracy better results
hydrokyle1 1 month ago
@grizzerr Teaching point shooting wouldn't exactly be "progressive". The unit that KL served in, Delta/CAG, originally utilized point shooting techniques but abandoned them in favor of utilizing the pistol's sights.
Point shooting is probably fine for the average cop, citizen or infantryman. However, for units such as CAG/DevGru/SWAT, point shooting can't guarantee the accuracy that is necessary to safely deal with hostage situations.
apw100 3 weeks ago
@apw100 , I can agree with that in reference to SPECOPS and SWAT. I believe the precision shot is important for all shooters, but it doesn't apply in every situation.Training in both precision and point shooting are important because the situation will dictate which you use.
grizzerr 3 weeks ago
I have yet to meet a point shooter who recommended just firing blindly at a target with no idea where their rounds were landing.
ColdWarScout 1 year ago 25
@ColdWarScout Do you think those skills are perishable under stress? Take a look at some shootings on video, you'll see the general results of point shooting at distance.
joe4678 9 months ago
Very well stated Kyle. Thank you for sharing that.
KellyAlwood 1 year ago
I've almost stopped reading the posts people right after watching these videos. But sometimes it's like a trainwreck, and I cannot look away. Novice shooters, who probably can't shoot to any level worth speaking of, and who know nothing about Kyle Lamb critique his skills and he FREE advice. I'm not gonna' write what Mr Lamb wouldn't want me to, guys like him don't want that, but believe me, he was a member of THE PREMIER Tier 1 Unit in existence. Men like Mr Lamb establish the US as the best.
rightwinggunnut1 1 year ago
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rightwinggunnut1 1 year ago
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rightwinggunnut1 1 year ago
3 people need to work on their aim because they missed the like button. Proves the point.
USpatriot741776 1 year ago
Mr. Lamb... Can you share your thoughts as to how this way of shooting cam to be?Do you think it was a lack of a quick sight picture, or just laziness when it wasn't deemed a need to remember the basic fundamentals?
ArmaHeavy 1 year ago
Hey i did a review on books and one i really recomended was yours awsome book dude!
joey7928 1 year ago
Listen all of you detractors (in particular LEO who think that being in a SWAT unit is even remotely similar to being in a Tier 1 SMU). Debating CQB tactics, shooting tactics etc with Kyle Lamb is like debating with Mike Tyson about the effects of an upper cut. Hope this helps you all, bc some of you need it. Gotta love the internet a place where someone who is not even in a tier (a LEO) can argue with the best of the best.
kimball902 1 year ago
@kimball902 You hit it on the head my man.....ludicrous. These Joe Swat guys, huh? Gotta love em.....this is why the Police/Sheriff Departments are sneered at in alot of communities today. Unadulterated passion for themselves and each other. What a joke.
rightwinggunnut1 1 year ago
Here's an idea, if you want to learn to point shoot then practice while using your sights. Hand/eye coordination will be learned faster when you see where your weapon is pointing. A plus is you might forget that you're point shooting and actually look at your sights because you've done it over and over in practice.
riverratrsf 1 year ago
Wow with that facial hair you'd be a welcome sight out on Range 37 these days.
SS/DOL
docwondernuts 1 year ago
Hello Mr. Lamb, I just bought your book, "green eyes and black rifles". I simply can not put it down once I started reading. I'm thinking about joining the army soon and I can use all the information I can get. A quick question though, what do you think about the bad lever made by magpul? Do you think its something you'll use? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
yenhan705eh77 1 year ago
@yenhan705eh77 Not really sure on the BAD lever yet. I have tried it and get a little confused, but some of that is all of the prior training I have without it. We will see. I have had several students that like them.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
This is one of those things I don't want to believe...but is true. All guys who I have trained with agree....see your sights as much as possible.
And I am just a civillian.
Abobojo 1 year ago
point shooting is only good if you're in really close quarters and dont have time to aquire your sight picture. SWAT at my local sheriff's department still trains you to deliberately aim down the sights in room clearing scenarios. i totally agree with kyle in this one.
Ronald3570 1 year ago
im no expert, but in a CQB enviroment, actually, when you breach a room, you point at a possible threat, finger stil not on the trigger yet, if its a threat, finger is placed on the trigger, at the same time eyes is focused on the sights, lastly then pull the trigger(all this happens in least than 2 or close to 3 seconds, depends on the situation)..Point shooting is a crash course, to make the average man combat effective as fast as possible, its irresponsible to point shoot in the real world.
TheSafetysoff 1 year ago
@TheSafetysoff - ok we should get together with some air soft, and see if you can acquire your sights when im stabbing you in the neck. Lets see how well your sights work then.
motownst2 1 year ago
@TheSafetysoff I meant with a red knife in a training environment. Dont want to sound postal...
motownst2 1 year ago
I believe that both methods must be taught, especially in law enforcement. There is a place for sighted fire when YOU own the time. When your waiting for the bank robber to come out, etc. But look at the stats. 85% of all officers feloniously shot are within ten feet. No time for sights not to mention tunnel vision, adrenaline and other physical effects of the body. More importantly officers are only hitting the subjects at approximately 7-9%. Yet suspects are hitting officers at 15-18%.
motownst2 1 year ago
I'd suggest you take a Threat Focused Class..under fire in defensive situation for your average every day concealed carry guy/gal, they will never see the sights when the adrenaline dumps..if you've taken fire as you say you would know this..Combat in a war zone is very different than civilian carry where fights are going to happen at bad breath distance...Point shooting can be very accurate out to 15-20' if you know what you're doing..
BulletsandBull 1 year ago
That's what happens in combat. You point shoot. Aimed fire rarely happens in close combat situations. Sights on a pistol within 15 yards are not necessary. If you are running a combat gun in a combat situation, you'll never see the sights in an encounter anyway. Try removing them and run a course of fire. Only hits count, accuracy will follow with practice.
dwkmk3 1 year ago
This is a very good video. There are numerous police officers concerned over many of the tactics we now teach our police "rookies."
Michaelllllllllll 2 years ago
5 stars to this vid
frederickfrenchjr08 2 years ago
Amen brother, good video.
billythebaboon 2 years ago
well in special forces they teach point shooting, in close quarters 5 yards or so, if they use it, then i would say its not a bad method, 5 yards i can fire and hit exactly where im looking, the sights are in my peripherial but im focoused on where i want that bullet to go
steven4570 2 years ago
Steven
Absolutely. As you said, "5 yards i can fire and hit exactly where im looking, the sights are in my peripherial."
That is the point, you ARE using your sights. Preachers of point shooting do not use sights and do not bring the weapon between their eyes and the target.
Thanks for the feedback.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 years ago
thanks for posting this video it answered quite a few of my questions in regard to point shooting. i am part of a police dept that is growing and it is nice to be able to reap the benefit of someone who has actual real world knowledge on subjects such as this. this is a video that i am going to recommend this video to our newer officers. thanks again
tburke230 2 years ago
@VikingTactics These guys have no idea who they are arguing with, or trying to make points against.
ATTENTION EVERYONE: Sit down, shut up, listen to Kyle and you will shoot great.
theburgars 1 year ago
@VikingTactics In both the video and the above comment you seem to be attacking a straw man. I could be described as a 'preacher of point shooting' (though I preach the need for sighted fire skills as well). When I point shoot I bring the pistol up eye level when possible and use the sights as reference points in my peripheral vision even when focused on the target. Point shooting does not mean ignoring all visual feedback from the gun, it means seeing as much as you need to see.
BlackeagleFalcon 1 year ago 14
This has been flagged as spam show
@VikingTactics In both the video and the above comment you seem to be attacking a straw man. I could be described as a 'preacher of point shooting' (though I preach the need for sighted fire skills as well). When I point shoot I bring the pistol up eye level when possible and use the sights as reference points in my peripheral vision even when focused on the target. Point shooting does not mean ignoring all visual feedback from the gun, it means seeing as much as you need to see.
BlackeagleFalcon 1 year ago
Great advice for those with the element of time on their side.
concur 100%
TheEtawaa 2 years ago 2
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The truth is, one should train both methods point shooting/site shooting. If only the bad guys are in front of me, I don't need to "AIM" my weapon...I will hit him(taking aim takes a fraction of time longer)...however, in a hostage situation you should aim...surgical shootng. Both methods have pros and cons. I say train both.
daltonsbadboy 2 years ago
dalton- If aiming w/ sights only takes a fraction of a second longer why not use those big helpful sights and or dots you paid for? I agree you will hit him but where?The one thing you don't have time to do in a fight is miss. How will you know if only bad guys are in front? What if some other unidentified folks show up? At what distance(s) do you start asking yourself " Let me see here do I want to use sights or not on this problem?"
sbd45acp 2 years ago
The truth is, one should train both methods point shooting/site shooting. If only the bad guys are in front of me, I don't need to "AIM" my weapon...I will hit him(taking aim takes a fraction of time longer)...however, in a hostage situation you should aim...surgical shootng. Both methods have pros and cons. I say train both.
daltonsbadboy 2 years ago
If it is important to place your shot(s) precisely in a known hostage situation so that you only hit the bad guy in a specific spot and no one else. Then why isn't still important to shoot precisely otherwise
sbd45acp 2 years ago
If you want accurate point shoot, get a crimson laser. Point shooting I feel should be practiced at close ranges 5-10 feet. If a threat is charging you without a weapon drawn, you will be shooting from under your arm pit if you can not distance yourself. If your doing the hunting then you can use your sights, but if the bad guy has the drop on you, totally different story. My opinion.
JimTL1000R 2 years ago
hi jim, i wana know if how do they do the instictive shooting.. whats the procedure? i am a long gunner in my team, thats y i should watch the cross hair, but i also have a prior training in CQB, and i want to know the technique in instinctive shooting. if you know something about it, it would realy help me
zanderzeus 2 years ago
People have been killing small animals and hitting each other in the head at medium distances with arrows, spears, and rocks for thousands of years without the aid of sights. Skilled paintball players have proven they can score accurate hits on less experienced players like me to 50 feet without sights.
Eye-hand coordination will always be a very important attribute for close range shooting where in most cases eyes focus on the threat, even if it's an alien concept to shooting instructors.
Defendu 2 years ago
Is this a joke? Kyle doesn't train "skilled paintball players" so they can win arguments about hitting their buddies first. He trains elite Law Enforcement and Military personnel who are operating in environments where lives hang in the balance. The same environment where he spent much of his military career. Comparing that to paintball or massed warfare (which was swept from the battlefield by accurate weapons and effective sights, by the way) is goofy.
TeamFrosick 2 years ago 6
Quiet paintball pansy.
FfullF 2 years ago
i think you should train sights if you have them, then you'll instinctive shoot better anyways, not that i think accurate weapons outsmart AK47s, just why ignore the sights purposedly?
adepsa 2 years ago
"just why ignore the sights purposedly? "
That's the biggest anti-point shooting fallacy: "Why ignore the sights?"
Point shooting has been complimentary with sighted shooting since at least WWII.
Point shooting = reactive high-stress shooting.
Sights = proactive shooting.
Defendu 2 years ago 4
Keep in mind pro paintball players walk the trigger, they have designated lanes to shoot. while with real guns, not the case. we cant walk the trigger and hold down a lane. We have to use our sights
greasychink 2 years ago
"We have to use our sights "
Most people trained or not, fail to use their sights in reactive shooting at handgun ranges.
you can call those who acknowledge this fact in their training "paintball pansies" all you want, but it will remain true.
As to the guy who mentioned "walking the trigger", pro players usually hit on target with their first shot. "FfullF" is probably some kid who dropped out of paintball because he couldn't take the sting of running around on a hot day and getting shot.
Defendu 2 years ago 2
Correction...
Most UNTRAINED and UNCONDITIONED people fail to use their sights because they dont have the experience or confidence to use them.
mrzergmrzergmrzerg 2 years ago
Good video; regardless if you agree or not he states his point eluquently.
My rule has always been "Use them if you can." I have won gunfights this way and it is what I teach.
Sights, dots or crosshairs - watch them!
JamesYeager 2 years ago 4
hi james, your right about what you said. and thats what my american instructors told me too. watch the cross hair and the front sight. but what i wana know if how do they do the instictive shooting.. whats the procedure? i am a long gunner in my team, thats y i should watch the cross hair, but i also have a prior training in CQB, and i want to know the technique in instinctive shooting. if you know something about it, it would realy help me
zanderzeus 2 years ago
Gunnermac, Kyle Lamb probably has AT LEAST as much authority to speak on these matters as Applegate and maybe even MORE....
2xedged 2 years ago 2
I've worked with organizations that have actually taken away the scoring rings so any hits, anywhere on the target, count.
I have also witnessed organizations that practice instinctive shooting in a CQB environment and, while this may be fine in an all-threat setting, it is unacceptable during hostage rescue operations.
When I hear students explain their poor fundamentals as, "well, we point shoot," I know there's a problem that needs to be addressed.
Thanks for the great comments.
VikingTactics 2 years ago
@VikingTactics ive commented on this video before but i saw this comment and i was reading a book caled inside delta force, i dont know if you are fimiliar with it but its about the formation of delta force, they said that their primary shooting method was institive shooting, even in a hostage situation when clearing rooms he said it required you to look at people rather than the sights as you have to be able to determine who is who, just wanted your thoughts on that
steven4570 1 year ago
@steven4570 Not to go into too many gory details, but that info is (very) dated. You need to see your sights.
Hope you like the videos.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
@VikingTactics the info proboly is but unless theyre lying to which i highly doubt that they used that method for years and i doubt much has changed, and deltas one of the top groups in the world for close combat and what he said makes a lot of sense about how when clearly a room you have too look at the people to determine who is the good or bad guys, and to do that who have too look people rather than your sights, of course all these guys did 8 hours a day for months was burn lots of ammo
steven4570 1 year ago
@steven4570 I don't mean to sound condescending here...but imagine that, after reading a book about Delta Force (written by someone who was in the unit years in the past), you started disagreeing with someone who had served over 12 years in the unit, ran their shooting program, retired last year as a SGM after serving multiple tours in Iraq, and still provides training to both them and the Special Forces community. Who do you think might have the more informed opinion in such a debate?
tmfrmk 1 year ago
@tmfrmk im not disagreeing, im merely pointing out that the method they used and what the opinions are on it, they used it for years which was very effective, and now everyone dismisses it. they way i see point shooting is the only thing you change is where your looking, how you hold the gun and all the fundementals are the same, it all comes with practice with any method, just because im not looking at my sights doesnt mean im not aiming
steven4570 1 year ago
As you stated, this is an acquired skill (properly learned, it is "AIMED" fire).
We work with shooters in our courses who sometimes receive only 8 hours of firearms training in a year. That amount of time would be much better spent learning to look at sights instead of struggling to learn instinctive shooting.
VikingTactics 2 years ago
Kyle, I agree whenever a target can be seen in the sights...use them!
hikerod54 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
IMO if you train at point shooting and you are effiective at doing it, then there is no saftey issue involved. Obviousely if you have not trained yourself to point shoot, then you would be foolish to try it in the event you have to use your weapon in self defense.
apfire26 3 years ago
Kyle it's good to hear someone of your caliber and experience say this. If only others will listen.
JFreuler 3 years ago 3
Thanks Kyle! I'm on board with that.
SWM952 3 years ago 3