Toward A Truly Free Market w/ Author John Medaille

[Joseph565112]

Free market is impossible.

1. The government placing ANY regulation on business in ANY way means no free market.

2. In a real free market a few will consolidate power very quickly and then the free market is no more.

Free market cannot exist, no more of this nonsense discussion

[Choblik]

@Joseph565112

Socialism does not exist either.

[Joseph565112]

@Choblik Socialism is an overbroad term...considering the fact that both fascism and communism fall under the pervue of 'socialism,' and those two are mortal enemies.

[ltajambi]

@Joseph565112 All you need is the majority of people to elect members to congress who have a strict interpretation of the constitution and always vote accordingly.

[Joseph565112]

@ltajambi The Constitution, drawing mostly on the work of Locke and Rousseau, respects private property, to a point....5th amendment, not so much.

But the Constitution was drafted, in large part, to provide for a government an even greater ability to tax and regulate than did the failing Articles of Confederation.

[ltajambi]

@Joseph565112 The 5th amendment is just fine. Its politicians and clever lawyers who play word games and fool the ignorant sheeple. Property is almost never lawfully taken away, but rather legally taken. The 5th has nothing to do with regulating the market but it does have to do with enforcing the law.

[Joseph565112]

@ltajambi You are clearly unaware of the fact that developers and land speculators literally create special districts and other forms of local government specifically to employ the 5th.

Eminent domain comes from the 5th amendment, and it is used hundreds of times a year to take property in the name of progress for all...not always true, of course

But its use still devalues the concept of property

[quizling22204]

This 'economist' is an idiot.

[allgoo19]

Yes, we need a constitutional amendment "Separation of state and corporates"

[yakwit]

@allgoo19

More like get rid of the Constitution which as enabled this situation we are stuck in

[ORVX]

pure distortion, what he is talking about is "CAPITALISM" corupted by moder western liberalism, this is both dems and republicans. what a moron, nad most the people that view this will buy into, .......it's ok, just undersand you all not seriouse nor deep thinkers. again it's ok, it takes all types, but untll more of them get it, society will not evolve much further, dummies.

[pennjersey83]

All companies start off small, even walmart. The reason they grow to be a corporation is because the could provide a service or product more efficiently or has a better business model that allows them to lower prices. Once a company grows large enough to manipulate the market , they should be broken up into smaller subsidies.

[ShatterNWO]

u can't have a free market with an income tax and a central bank, those are planks of the communist manifesto. The constitution says that only congress can issue the currency. If u end the income tax, we can restore our manufacturing power and have free trade at the same time. But if u are gonna tax small business men into oblivion u have to have tariffs. Anti-monopoly laws are pointless, just lower taxes and their will be less monopolies, competition is the best way to have choices

[tomclunie]

China massive land mass; taiwan small island.

[TheNavigateur]

I WANT THIS GUEST BACK ON!!!!!! He's awesome. I think he has some more cutting insights than Cenk has ever provided. In fact, why can't he become a Young Turks host?

[dEdGrimley]

Thank the non-existent lord that SOMEONE else finally said what I've been saying since I was a teenager... You don't build an economy from the top, you build it from the bottom. You don't build ANYTHING top-down. It's destined to collapse.

[dEdGrimley]

Psssshtttt... Enforce anti-monopoly laws... That's UN-AMERICAN!!!! Enforcing laws... Come on...

[romanmir01]

@dEdGrimley More importantly, that's not what Free Market needs - more government enforcement. It needs separation of corporations and government and shrinking of government to get rid of the deficit.

[henrythesteinberg]

I like this guy; he sounds a bit like Howard Zinn.

[romanmir01]

Greed is not only good, it's the only moving force, it's unstoppable and it should be channeled and used. You can fight it as well, as you can fight the force of Gravity while living on a planet. Sure, you can go up, but you'll come down eventually, the question is will you be in one piece after that or not.

Greed is the only primal mover. Greed for money. Greed for sex. Greed for life, whatever.

[dEdGrimley]

@romanmir01

Ambition is good. Greed is the crushing force that destroys all around you, and when everything around that entity is ruined, there's nothing left for them to take.

I thought this was a "Christian" country. How the Hell do people rationalize calling the United States a Christian nation, while embracing one of the Seven Deadly Sins, the one I'd argue actually accounts for FOUR of them (Pride, Gluttony, Greed, and Lust) as a "moving force"? Make up your minds, hypocrites.

[romanmir01]

@dEdGrimley As an atheist I abhor any notion that a country with a supposed separation of church and state is a 'Christian country'.

[dEdGrimley]

@romanmir01

Yet the Right wing constantly positions itself as both defenders of greed and Christianity. I specifically didn't mention your personal beliefs because I don't know what they are, but on the greater whole, there's a conflicting message.

But no, someone needs to stop the lopsided nature of our economy. When one group has too much power, destroys all competition, lives the greedy man's dream, how is that any different than a state run economy?

[romanmir01]

@dEdGrimley I don't understand what 'the right' has to do with Free Market, can you please explain? On 'the right', except for Ron Paul and Peter Schiff, who else actually cares about Free Market?

[romanmir01]

@dEdGrimley

I truly suggest watching these, not that I need to convince you anything, but if you watch it, can you actually truly say that this guy doesn't know his stuff, or that he does not CARE about the real economics and economy? He ran an online campaign as a republican senator in Connecticut, but he is libertarian. He lost to Linda McMahon spent over 30million to win, she won, too bad for USA. He got 22.7%

watch?v=Z0YTY5TWtmU

watch?v=UOBXSewoP0s

watch?v=rEVTDeu8-04

watch?v=3wGzZqAKbiw

[romanmir01]

This guy is not a thinker, just trying to use a few soundbites to sell a book.

You want an actual Free Market approach, look at Peter Schiff and Ron Paul

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 Ron Paul? A thinker that doesn't flog himself through soundbites? Yeah right.

"Federal reserve must be destroyed! Gold standard must be put in place! Bla bla bla..."

Sound familiar? Ron Paul - and his dweeby son - are windbags. I don't agree with everything this guest says, but he's absolutely right about anti-trust laws. These are the measures that worked in the past. Stuff like gold standard was an effect of such policies, not a cause in its own right...

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil anti-trust laws? First anti-trust case was against Standard Oil, in fact that particular trust was the reason for the anti-trust laws, except that it had nothing to do with the good of the market.

Standard Oil had plenty support from various governments around the world, but by the time they lost the anti-trust lawsuit, they were not even a monopoly anymore, they had 5 or 6 competitors at least.

Ron Paul is correct, or did you see gold go down over the years? right.

[pilkingtonphil]

I don't know what point you're trying to make - but you're certainly talking through your ass to make it. Anti-trust laws can be traced back to Roman times. Look up the history on Wiki.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

In addition, while I'm not against the gold standard per se I know it's not the panacea Paul thinks it is.

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil History on WIKI? :! chwdsh2$%^#*(#$)_@#$()@#$%

jesus.

Ok, here is what I am talking about: Sherman Antitrust Act.



[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 Better than nothing... better than your "the first anti-trust law was against Standard Oil" bullshit. No it wasn't. You're wrong.

The Sherman Antitrust Law has nothing to do with my point that Anti-Trust is the way to go. Take your libertarian talking points elsewhere.

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil You are a moron. Before Sherman Act USA had no way to pursue anti-trust cases. Thus, you are a moron.

You can stop talking to me anytime you want, you started the conversation with me, so fuck off.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 "Before Sherman Act USA had no way to pursue anti-trust cases. Thus, you are a moron."

Wow, do you have a degree in analytical philosophy or what? Because your argument structure is quite brilliant.

"Fish live in water. Thus, you are clever."

"Most cats have tails. Thus, you have brown hair."

Profound, man. Let me try one:

"Romanmir01 brings up particular examples of US anti-trust law to respond to a general comment about said laws. Thus, he cannot reason properly."

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil I still hear you squeak, thus you are still unfortunately a moron. Didn't you say you don't want to speak with me?

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 Tried speaking. No repsonse. Like most libertarians you simply talk to yourself. Talking to you is like watching someone jerk off. It's embarissing.

Anyway, I've had my fun. See you over at the Von Mises institution or whatever other deluded ideological propaganda website you hang out on.

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil I can't rePsond to you, because you know everything about most libertarians. I wish you could watch me jerk off, some entertainment for you, more than you get now, reading wikipedia and listening to Cenk for you points.

Cheers.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 Oh I already watched you pull your parson..... and look at the mess that you made. Five irrelevant comments that the poor YouTube community now have to read!

Someone get a wet towel!

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil Never mind with the towel, you can do it, slurp the stuff.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 This is getting a little too hot for the YouTube comments section. How about we carry it on over at on of those popular libertarian sex sites. ronsballs. org or goldstandardinmybutt. com - they're pretty good.

Seriously though. Libertarian-baiting on YouTube is so much fun. They always think that they have it all figured out. But a nagging little voice inside my head always tells me that I should be doing something better with my time...

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil so you know all about those sex sites AND you have a little voice inside your head talking to you?

There IS something better you should be doing with your time, it's called a rehab.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 That little voice is referred to as a conscience, you pillock! Also Rehab is where drug and alcohol addicts go. Tell me, have you ever got confused as to which is your ass and which is your elbow?

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil Your conscience is talking to you while you are talking to me on youtube? Are you SURE ABOUT THAT? I am quite certain you actually meant 'common sense', not that you have more common sense than you have conscience, after all, you are still yapping.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 Yes, my conscience tends to inform me when I've done something wrong. I joked that baiting libertarians was the wrong thing to do. Hence, my conscience - the 'little voice in my head' - warns me against doing it.

Man, you're dumb. And you have no sense of humour to boot.

Thanks for the short lecture in your perverse conception of human psychology though. It was almost as ass backwards as you economics 'commentary'.

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil Oh boy, you can't stop, can you? Conscience, common sense, uncommon sense, psychology, economics, politics, ideology, thinking, perverted sexual pleasures... all of these things have failed you and I am NOT interested in helping you figure it all out, you'll just have to go into the world and make your own mistakes, it wouldn't be that hard, you are an expert in that field.

Goodbye. Good bye. Bye bye. Arrivederci. Ciao. Xin chào.再见. Tschüss, auf wiedersehen. Au revoir. Прощай.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 Oh please help me. Please, Mr. Libertarian man. I just don't know how I'm going to make it in the world without your telling me what you've gleaned from some biased propaganda website.

We need people like the Randroids and LaRouchites to feed us pseudo-analysis and conspiracy theories about big government. We need to know The Truth. Don't leave me yet. I need to know more about irrelevent anti-trust laws. Maybe you could teach me goodbye in other languages too - you pretentious ass.

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil Why, I could tell you many things in a number of languages, for example почему бы тебе не отсосать у верблюда уже, явно же хочешь?

But I have so much more to do in the world and your cause is lost, you have voices in your head and you have porn websites to visit, you should do that, time is in short supply.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 You truly are a pretentious ass. "Oh look at me... I can speak what appears to be Russian - I am so smart." I'll bet you're the type of guy that people try to get away from at parties...

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil Surely, you didn't think English was my first or second or even third language?

As to the parties, I am sure you are a center of attention at your local tight-ass club, be sure to turn your back to the right person.

[pilkingtonphil]

@romanmir01 No, obviously I failed to recognise your brilliance... But now you've cleared that up and we can all stand in awe of you...

Here's a little advice though, you know, in case you miss cultural nuance. Most people consider those who go around bragging about how many languages they speak clowns. Most people think doing things like this is rather pathetic. Personally I think you've shown that you're not half as clever as you think you are. But that's just my opinion.

[romanmir01]

@pilkingtonphil Oh, common, it's time for you to visit your tight-ass club, and we both know, only men are allowed.

[romanmir01]

Also this guy is very confused. How exactly would it work in Free Market to redistribute wealth from one entity to another and then what? Wait until the redistributed wealth grows and then REDISTRIBUTE IT AGAIN?

He expects the government to do the redistribution but the market to do the work? Excellent. Idiot.

[romanmir01]

OMG., also on China, this guy is SO WRONG!

China has NO PROBLEM that US has, they have now the manufacturing that allows them to create things of value, it's NOT MONEY, NOT CASH that makes a country rich, it's their production, their manufacturing, their science, which is all improving.

Even if in terms of MONEY they are getting screwed, but in terms of PRODUCTION China is getting richer and richer.

When USD failis, China will shrug off it money problem and will turn to their consumer

[romanmir01]

I am sorry, what bullshit. Google is one of many search engines, there is plenty of competition on line, but Google used the real world to do its IPO, which gave it an enormous amount of CASH that allowed them to BUY various services, like YOUTUBE, like Google Maps, and others, they BOUGHT those services and consolidated but its not due to their EARNINGS it's due to the IPO and the share price system.

They ARE competitive though, why would you BUST Google up, it provides services at GOOD PRICE!

[romanmir01]

@romanmir01 How much does it cost YOU to search with Google? How much does it cost YOU to post YOUTUBE videos with Google?

How much does it cost YOU to use GMail, Google Maps, Google Translator?

Isn't the price for consumer + quality the real indication whether this so called monopoly is doing GOOD by customer?

Also ANYBODY can compete with Google, they are not the only OR the first search engine

Lycos, Infoseek, Altavista, remember those? They were outcompeted. But Yahoo, Mamma, Bing exist

[MarmaladeINFP]

The founding fathers idealized a professional political class, a disinterested aristocracy. They hoped that this political class would be disinterested in that they'd be independently wealthy enough so as to not be involved in business affairs. They thought it was dangerous for powerful people to be simultaneously involved in both politics and capitalism. They wanted a political class that didn't favor any group but instead were able to dispassionately make decisions for the good of all.

[MarmaladeINFP]

How can rightwingers defend transnational big businesses like Walmart & local small businesses like mom & pop stores? It's interesting that Medaille describes the internal functioning of a monopolistic corporation as being socialist in that they decrease competition & having a strict hierarchical structure. Many rightwingers love both big businesses & the military which combined as the military-industrial complex form the largest manifestation of socialism in the US & possibly in the world.

[amalwaysawsome]

I'm a free market socialist. Capitalism ftl  Government ftl Freedom ftw

[longslidenyc]

Have you ever interviewed Peter Joseph or Jacque Fresco of Zeitgeist and Venus Project?

[joshuatreet]

This is a really great discussion. And the difference between this argument compared to the opposing consensus, is that one is supported by historical evidence. While the other popped out of some conservatives asshole when they snuck into the second signing of the Emancipation Proclamation that corporate entities should have human freedoms. ;)

Fight the power! (capitalistic power that is)

[DjDedan]

Anyone who thinks that Walmart is practicing Fair Trade policies must be happy that more and more US jobs are being outsourced to Asia. Because hey, that means we either have to lower our wages or be put out of business... much like the mom and pops need to do to compete with Walmart (and we won't even mention Walmart helping to destroy american based manufacturing by going to asia to undercut competitors). After all what's the worse that can happen.

[styrofoamheart]

gladwell talks about this in OUTLIERS with rice cultivation. corporations create amazing inefficiency.

[GodAthie]

does anyone know how much walmart has saved us? even if you shop there? walmart has forced mom and pop stores to be competitve and ether increase their services or lower their prices as well... walmart is not a bad thing

[GorgonLuvs8008135]

Imbalanced trade is good for a country if its export is greater than its import, drives up the currency of the exporting country (this is a negative feed since it increases the importing country's cost) but Its only a big problem when an american is talking about another country.

Buy local. Boycott america and israel.

[hollaboutit]

this emotional attachment to "capitalism" is one of our main problems in this country. actually, emotional attachment to the ideals of a completely flawed system is the main problem. you can see it in teabaggers, they want the "good ol' days". anyway, capitalism is something that puts the powerful's interests over what is prudent for the society we live in. its cheaper to make shoes in china, but in order for me to buy those overpriced shoes, i could use a job. but, all the work is gone

[BeholdZeus]

Put simply: if we enforce anti-monopoly laws (a total no-brainer) and increase the power (and presence) of trade unions, America will be a fairer and less corrupt country. Here's another idea: outlaw corporate funding to politicians and impose an electoral tax on the population. The same amount of money will be delegated to each candidate. That way elections will be fought and won on ideas only. Simple.

[TheNavigateur]

@BeholdZeus You don't even need an electoral tax: the media companies would host debates so they can get viewing numbers: the candidates wouldn't have to spend a penny. The only law should be that all candidates must be invited. We can simply ban all paid-for campaigning. Remember that media debates are FREE OF CHARGE for political candidates, because media companies have an inherant incentive for hosting them. This can eliminate corruption altogether.

[Koba82]

Agree completely with him here.

[imover18gotityube]

End corporations and corporate structure.

[Calimantalkin]

I hear people put down walmart because it squeezes the little guy out, well, in my experience the little guy sucks. The little guy has less selection and charges you more. Is stopping a Walmart so this guy can have his storekeeper fantasy and I can pay more for less any different than welfare for businesses?

[asarhan04]

news just out today; china is now the world's number 2 economy. i think a lot of this interview has just been outdated

[upplsuckimcool16]

That's not capitalism that's what we have now which is NOT capitalism!

[aaronsande]

Cenk, I believe instead of "corporatism" the correct term is "plutocracy". And yep, we got it. Citibank agrees.

[LegendaryFrost]

@aaronsande That memo they sent out still makes me sick to my stomach.

[aaronsande]

@LegendaryFrost Indeed. I can't believe that, if we showed that to most Republican voters, they wouldn't agree. But I'm such an optimist...

Did you see it in "Capitalism: A Love Story", too, or somewhere else? That movie started out "meh, pay your mortgages" but got very good after about 15 minutes =D

[NutBallCop]

It took Cenk 15 minutes to catch on - wow!! East India Trading Company - the company store - the plantation owner - CORPORATISM is NOT the free market.

Adams and Jefferson were right about Corporations and Washington was right about no political parties - all wastes of resources and evil in the end

[FDASARO]

The Internet was more of a "commons" during the late 90's but looked what happened. Too many companies, too many risky moves, not enough gauging for consumer demand, and it all crashed. The companies that rose out of those ashes rightly took more of a share due to better business practices and offering consumers services that they actually wanted.

He's absolutely right on China though. They are way too dependent exports and government spending while domestic consumption is severely slagging.

[TheGiantRobot]

Yeah, I like what this guy has to say. The problems we are facing now aren't accidental. Like what he said about them changing corporate charters - this is all designed to give deliberate control and rights to elites, through corporations.

Why do we allow people limited liability? Special campaign financing privileges? Why are the biggest corporations paying no taxes? It's wrong at it's core.

[TheNavigateur]

@TheGiantRobot and 00maharum00ma you're both awesome!!

[crackerz99]

everything this man is about, a truly free market and such, is correct.

[upplsuckimcool16]

Man, I liked this interview, Cenk challenged him on a bunch of different fronts and brought the other side of the argument to the table (The "rational" other side anyway) THESE are the debates we should be having between conservatives and progressives, Conservatives making SMART points and progressives making smart points... (I am referring to cenk bringing up rational right wing arguments)

[crackerz99]

i really like this guy, he vagually sounds like the joker from the dark knight, but he isnt a reppublican!

[00maharum00ma]

Why do we want a free market? Why do we want capitalism? Why can't we have an economic system based on common values and needs? I just don't understand why that's never brought up.

[crackerz99]

@00maharum00ma because that means that everyone gets equal opertunity, and equal opertunity means things are cheap, business' arent in the business of distributing their product to better mankind, they are in the business of making money.

[Zendrig]

@00maharum00ma Homo homini lupus.

[TheGiantRobot]

@00maharum00ma

True free markets means everyone can take part because no one is controlling it. That way, common needs and values come to the forefront naturally because they are common.

When you allow big corporations or government entities to control the means of production, you don't have common people determining anything, you have elite doing it for them, and elite serve themselves. That's why you want regulators to protect our rights and freedoms, but not to dictate our every move.

[TheNavigateur]

@TheGiantRobot Great interpretation.

[javb222]

There are too many things for a group of people to decide what is needed and by whom and in what quantity. I guess the reason for free markets is that no-one has to do that. It's supposed to be automatic supply and demand and then you just need to tweak it rather than run all of it.

[TheNavigateur]

@00maharum00ma You're a TRUE progressive. Thanks. 00maharum00ma for president!! (Or me)