I wasn't judging the SSG, more of a opinion, but we know what people say about opinions? I may try a Bidini circuit, and I have a Deltran 'battery-tender' charger for my small lead-acid stuff. I'm not sue what the internal circuitry is, but it does have a sort of restoration mode.
I agree the 1 transistor is impressive running a BLDC, but have you gotten one to start by itself, or control direction? I'd be interested in learning the answer on that.
If you think about the circuit you need to generate a voltage across the trigger circuit before you will have rotation. You can only do that with a push. I use the sequential bipolar circuit with the window motor. I also use hall effect sensors. With the sensors you get trigger without having to generate it mechanically. You then have a motor that will self start as well as hav forward reverse and accept timing changes,
John, do you have a picture or video of the 20K RPM rotor? And these motors in general, have you tried an iron lamination, or would that draw too much power? I see you refer to your site as 'discussions' for like-minded experimenters, rather than the 'free power' stuff. I'd like to think of myself as a 'like-minded' experimenter, and multi-interest enthusiast, electrical/electronics/metal working, and all types of models, engines, and such, including the various 'natural' sources of power
Actually the motor in the video is going 19,978 RPM. Theres a disk with a timing reflector on the shaft. I never used Iron in the field coils with the window motor, but it's normal to make coils with a group of welding rod for the core. This has a similar effect to laminations.
@DadHav .I've never used one yet, but I see this was an optical speedsensing type. At the Brugmaster company, we used a strobe with mag-pick up, not so much for speed sensing, but to see tool chip production when cutting,and also vibration analysis. This was in the 1970's, not a lot of laser stuff then, although we used laser interferometer for inspecting/measuring the X/Y/Z axis positioning accuracy. Everything back then was ball-screws and the 1st generation PWM drives, with gilmer belts.
Yes things have changed. I think they still use strobes like you talk about. I've actually used LED's activated from the motors here to see where the pulse was with relation to where the magnet is at the time the transistor fires.
@DadHav Yes, I know LED's are also 'receivers' or more accurately 'generators', to a smaller degree, compared to emmiters, as are most semi-conductors. Have you worked with Hall-effect sensors on your experiments? A little more complicated curcuits involved though.
I did see you mentioned your 'cramped' breadboard set-ups? Well, no problem in my mind, as micro-watts and milliwats don't like a bunch of long, big thick cables? The 2 Cents battery, do the copper/zinc pennies work/last ok?
@DadHav Welding rods, I had my own 1 man shop for 4 years, I still have about a ton of rods..18-20 or so boxes, 50# each. Most steel welding rods are a good quality cold drawn wire, I'll have to if they they stay magnetized, you wouldn't want that, at least not for wound coils/iron core. I get a lot of online publications and several about motor Mfg..very special (secret) silicon iron now for motor and other inductor.
You're exactly right. Thin is in when it comes to laminations now. The welding rod everyone tries to get is R60. I've had good success with soft floral wire as well.
@DadHav R60, I'll have to see what that is, but the floral wire, I'm thinking is just soft iron? maybe you can try the 'baling wire' or more properly, 'Mechanics Wire' sold at Home Depot and such stores. The floral wire may be a bit pricey? In this case, the imported stuff might be better. The limited amount of characters here makes it a little difficult to really have any real discussion of some of the topics that I'd like to talk more about.
@DadHav I did notice the tach-o 'pegs out' at 19,999. A friend of mine operates a 2-stroke Power Tool store, has a tach with the same 4-1/2 digit read out, not too much trouble for the saws, most max at 11-12K.
..Well...once again I return...now looking at more of your videos, with the fine mechanical engineering details, and especially the electronics...I'm very interested. I see someone asked about the power draw to run this motor..24 volts at 125 ma...well...around 3 watts..? Plus heat loss.. SSG Bedini.??..I'll have to research the Bedini deal...SSG..is that solid state gating..? Do you have any problems heating or otherwise damaging the drive transistors from back EMF..?
Ha ha. Ya man, if you let the collector go open you can toast a transistor instantly. Just do a search for Bedini circuits or SSG there are all the drawings you need right here on YouTube.
@DadHav ..Collectors?..yes, I have worked with a lot of NPN relay drivers, and the on-coil diodes, also R-C supressors for larger inductive loads. I looked at a bunch of stuff on the John Bedini site, and other youtube 'posters'...and for some reason the Simple School Girl just doesn't set well in my mind if you really want to sound serious (technical).. I'd assumed it would be something like Soild State Gating... I'm reserving my naughty comments more now, thanks to you...
@dougspair I see something on the Bedini site about accoustic 'steering' that he's patented, that's interesting, because I bought a very nice JVC stereo system back in 1984...it had a 'surround sound' system, that made the stereo into a sort of right-left, front-rear concert hall effect. Very effective, you need 4 speakers for the true effect of course. I don't see how you could get a true effect without 4 speakers there. I could be wrong of course, as I still find new things to learn daily.
@DadHav What? Vacuum tubes? I read that a couple of amplifier mfgr's are still making them, Fender, Traynor? The solid state stuff does often have the annoying hiss caused by being semi-conductors, never all the way on, or off.
The old speakers I took apart used the tubes high voltage to drive the speaker magnet, usually 150-200+ volts, DC. I even had an early portable radio with 4-5 tubes, a couple 'D' cells for heaters, and a 90 volt for the plates. Weren't the early R/C's like that?
Tubes have alway been and always will have a special mellow sound. Theres nothing like watching a line of power tubes with their beautiful blue glow pulsing away to the rhythm of your guitar. I hate to mark my age but I flew a plane with tube R/C. The tubes were mini without a base. The controls where very basic. Mine was rudder only if I remember right. I still have the airplane in my basement. I fly it every year but with an updated radio.
@DadHav I recall the 7/9 pin tubes, and I even found some mini-tubes in surplus stuff in the late1950's, about 5/16" diameter, wire leads, mostly just triodes, and amplifiers for military walkie-talkies. I see on your youtube site, you're 67, so yes, my elder by 3 years. I was born July 4th, 1947, the same year thefirst transistor was invented. Nice video of the Eagle. We have them here in Calif. too, but no-where around town.
You old fart! Ha ha. Ya I'm a little older that's why I had some fun telling you to respect your elders. Yes it's unusual to see eagles in Ohio. We have place on a lake here and there happens to be a pair living at the lake We also have about 100 vultures that show up every summer. I have some video of the eagles to add on to the clip I have posted. I found them walking along our sea wall when the water went down. They'd look over the top and try to sneak up on chipmunks.
You would have to understand the SSG fully before judging. I personally know many people who are happy restoring old batteries with the system. You don't really have to be interested in free energy to have some fun experimenting with something that actually can be useful if you're successful. keep in mind these are simple circuits for experimenters. How many one transistor circuits do you know about than can run a brushless motor. Most people have fun with this. I do.
@DadHav I have dissected several hard drive and floppy motors, andsee that all are 3 phase BLDC. I'm thinking they are 3 phase to get the direction, and self-starting? After High School, I attended a 9 month school for 1/3 phase AC and DC motor repair and control circuitry, so I understand that stuff pretty well. All mechanical controls then, nothing much of high-power semi-conductors yet, but some DC motor stuff ran vacuum tubes for power.
Most people don't know how much three phase stuff is really out there. In the hobby industry you can buy a motor and speed control for probably less than $20 now days.
I'm not sure about the output. I'll be winding some coils to see what I can get if I draw some practical current. Like about what I'd expect if it where in an Aero application. Eventually I'd like to perfect a motor for an airplane. The design would be a little different.
Sounds like a Dremel. Yes, this motor is running on the standard SSG Bedini circuit. I wound a coil for more speed and dual triggers and threw a magnet at what I guess was over 30K RPM, and I wasn't anywhere near 24 volts yet. Scared the crap out of me, not to mention I had to dig half the magnet out of the basement ceiling. I used more glue this time.
@DadHav I would get some really huge heatshrink on the magnet rotor after it was glued and cured and balanced. Or wrap it with filament tape but that would look tacky and none of your stuff ever looks less than perfect IMO.
I wasn't judging the SSG, more of a opinion, but we know what people say about opinions? I may try a Bidini circuit, and I have a Deltran 'battery-tender' charger for my small lead-acid stuff. I'm not sue what the internal circuitry is, but it does have a sort of restoration mode.
I agree the 1 transistor is impressive running a BLDC, but have you gotten one to start by itself, or control direction? I'd be interested in learning the answer on that.
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
If you think about the circuit you need to generate a voltage across the trigger circuit before you will have rotation. You can only do that with a push. I use the sequential bipolar circuit with the window motor. I also use hall effect sensors. With the sensors you get trigger without having to generate it mechanically. You then have a motor that will self start as well as hav forward reverse and accept timing changes,
John
DadHav 1 month ago
John, do you have a picture or video of the 20K RPM rotor? And these motors in general, have you tried an iron lamination, or would that draw too much power? I see you refer to your site as 'discussions' for like-minded experimenters, rather than the 'free power' stuff. I'd like to think of myself as a 'like-minded' experimenter, and multi-interest enthusiast, electrical/electronics/metal working, and all types of models, engines, and such, including the various 'natural' sources of power
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
Actually the motor in the video is going 19,978 RPM. Theres a disk with a timing reflector on the shaft. I never used Iron in the field coils with the window motor, but it's normal to make coils with a group of welding rod for the core. This has a similar effect to laminations.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
@DadHav .I've never used one yet, but I see this was an optical speedsensing type. At the Brugmaster company, we used a strobe with mag-pick up, not so much for speed sensing, but to see tool chip production when cutting,and also vibration analysis. This was in the 1970's, not a lot of laser stuff then, although we used laser interferometer for inspecting/measuring the X/Y/Z axis positioning accuracy. Everything back then was ball-screws and the 1st generation PWM drives, with gilmer belts.
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
Yes things have changed. I think they still use strobes like you talk about. I've actually used LED's activated from the motors here to see where the pulse was with relation to where the magnet is at the time the transistor fires.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
@DadHav Yes, I know LED's are also 'receivers' or more accurately 'generators', to a smaller degree, compared to emmiters, as are most semi-conductors. Have you worked with Hall-effect sensors on your experiments? A little more complicated curcuits involved though.
I did see you mentioned your 'cramped' breadboard set-ups? Well, no problem in my mind, as micro-watts and milliwats don't like a bunch of long, big thick cables? The 2 Cents battery, do the copper/zinc pennies work/last ok?
dougspair 1 month ago
@DadHav Welding rods, I had my own 1 man shop for 4 years, I still have about a ton of rods..18-20 or so boxes, 50# each. Most steel welding rods are a good quality cold drawn wire, I'll have to if they they stay magnetized, you wouldn't want that, at least not for wound coils/iron core. I get a lot of online publications and several about motor Mfg..very special (secret) silicon iron now for motor and other inductor.
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
You're exactly right. Thin is in when it comes to laminations now. The welding rod everyone tries to get is R60. I've had good success with soft floral wire as well.
J
DadHav 1 month ago
@DadHav R60, I'll have to see what that is, but the floral wire, I'm thinking is just soft iron? maybe you can try the 'baling wire' or more properly, 'Mechanics Wire' sold at Home Depot and such stores. The floral wire may be a bit pricey? In this case, the imported stuff might be better. The limited amount of characters here makes it a little difficult to really have any real discussion of some of the topics that I'd like to talk more about.
dougspair 1 month ago
@DadHav I did notice the tach-o 'pegs out' at 19,999. A friend of mine operates a 2-stroke Power Tool store, has a tach with the same 4-1/2 digit read out, not too much trouble for the saws, most max at 11-12K.
dougspair 1 month ago
..Well...once again I return...now looking at more of your videos, with the fine mechanical engineering details, and especially the electronics...I'm very interested. I see someone asked about the power draw to run this motor..24 volts at 125 ma...well...around 3 watts..? Plus heat loss.. SSG Bedini.??..I'll have to research the Bedini deal...SSG..is that solid state gating..? Do you have any problems heating or otherwise damaging the drive transistors from back EMF..?
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
Ha ha. Ya man, if you let the collector go open you can toast a transistor instantly. Just do a search for Bedini circuits or SSG there are all the drawings you need right here on YouTube.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
@DadHav ..Collectors?..yes, I have worked with a lot of NPN relay drivers, and the on-coil diodes, also R-C supressors for larger inductive loads. I looked at a bunch of stuff on the John Bedini site, and other youtube 'posters'...and for some reason the Simple School Girl just doesn't set well in my mind if you really want to sound serious (technical).. I'd assumed it would be something like Soild State Gating... I'm reserving my naughty comments more now, thanks to you...
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair I see something on the Bedini site about accoustic 'steering' that he's patented, that's interesting, because I bought a very nice JVC stereo system back in 1984...it had a 'surround sound' system, that made the stereo into a sort of right-left, front-rear concert hall effect. Very effective, you need 4 speakers for the true effect of course. I don't see how you could get a true effect without 4 speakers there. I could be wrong of course, as I still find new things to learn daily.
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair This Stereo still works very well...
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
I love the old stuff and still have my system from the 60's. I don't ususally talk about it. It draws a lot of attention.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
@DadHav What? Vacuum tubes? I read that a couple of amplifier mfgr's are still making them, Fender, Traynor? The solid state stuff does often have the annoying hiss caused by being semi-conductors, never all the way on, or off.
The old speakers I took apart used the tubes high voltage to drive the speaker magnet, usually 150-200+ volts, DC. I even had an early portable radio with 4-5 tubes, a couple 'D' cells for heaters, and a 90 volt for the plates. Weren't the early R/C's like that?
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
Tubes have alway been and always will have a special mellow sound. Theres nothing like watching a line of power tubes with their beautiful blue glow pulsing away to the rhythm of your guitar. I hate to mark my age but I flew a plane with tube R/C. The tubes were mini without a base. The controls where very basic. Mine was rudder only if I remember right. I still have the airplane in my basement. I fly it every year but with an updated radio.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
@DadHav I recall the 7/9 pin tubes, and I even found some mini-tubes in surplus stuff in the late1950's, about 5/16" diameter, wire leads, mostly just triodes, and amplifiers for military walkie-talkies. I see on your youtube site, you're 67, so yes, my elder by 3 years. I was born July 4th, 1947, the same year thefirst transistor was invented. Nice video of the Eagle. We have them here in Calif. too, but no-where around town.
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
You old fart! Ha ha. Ya I'm a little older that's why I had some fun telling you to respect your elders. Yes it's unusual to see eagles in Ohio. We have place on a lake here and there happens to be a pair living at the lake We also have about 100 vultures that show up every summer. I have some video of the eagles to add on to the clip I have posted. I found them walking along our sea wall when the water went down. They'd look over the top and try to sneak up on chipmunks.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
@dougspair
You would have to understand the SSG fully before judging. I personally know many people who are happy restoring old batteries with the system. You don't really have to be interested in free energy to have some fun experimenting with something that actually can be useful if you're successful. keep in mind these are simple circuits for experimenters. How many one transistor circuits do you know about than can run a brushless motor. Most people have fun with this. I do.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
@DadHav I have dissected several hard drive and floppy motors, andsee that all are 3 phase BLDC. I'm thinking they are 3 phase to get the direction, and self-starting? After High School, I attended a 9 month school for 1/3 phase AC and DC motor repair and control circuitry, so I understand that stuff pretty well. All mechanical controls then, nothing much of high-power semi-conductors yet, but some DC motor stuff ran vacuum tubes for power.
dougspair 1 month ago
@dougspair
Most people don't know how much three phase stuff is really out there. In the hobby industry you can buy a motor and speed control for probably less than $20 now days.
John
DadHav 1 month ago
mmm great work, how much amperage and voltage does it draws and how much it is puting out?
kukulcangod 2 years ago
Yes, This is the SSG circuit.
Thanks
John
DadHav 2 years ago
DadHav , VERY CUTE HIGH SPEED MOTOR !!
Dual triggers how to?
Thank you
fdoca 2 years ago
Actually there is a single trigger on this motor and I'm using the SSG circuit.
John
DadHav 2 years ago
Right on the poles and bifiler. I can't remember how many turns. It may have been a little less than that.
John
DadHav 2 years ago
5 stars !!
350 turns on bifiler? 6 NS pores?
Thanks
fdoca 2 years ago
I'm not sure about the output. I'll be winding some coils to see what I can get if I draw some practical current. Like about what I'd expect if it where in an Aero application. Eventually I'd like to perfect a motor for an airplane. The design would be a little different.
John
DadHav 2 years ago
Sounds like a Dremel. Yes, this motor is running on the standard SSG Bedini circuit. I wound a coil for more speed and dual triggers and threw a magnet at what I guess was over 30K RPM, and I wasn't anywhere near 24 volts yet. Scared the crap out of me, not to mention I had to dig half the magnet out of the basement ceiling. I used more glue this time.
John
DadHav 2 years ago
@DadHav I would get some really huge heatshrink on the magnet rotor after it was glued and cured and balanced. Or wrap it with filament tape but that would look tacky and none of your stuff ever looks less than perfect IMO.
electrician725 2 years ago
Holy Crap, Window Dremel !
mgcbear 2 years ago
Wow, that's great. Are you running a bedini circuit on it?
tonysam11290 2 years ago