All the way members are zombies to the truth, I have no clue why people are so easily convinced. Example: pay 15% of your income and god will take care of your problems. You guys keep paying the cult leaders while they sleep on a pile of money at night in their mansions while they laugh at you. The way members are ignorant fools, I've seen what they are all about. But I'm an outsider so in their case, I'm the devil trying to ruin them, right? stupid fools. Brainwashed freaks!
If only VPW would follow his own words. It is not what the Bible says its what VPW says. His understanding of the greek word for know in regards to the virgin birth is wrong. In the book Jesus Christ is not God. He defines the word with (pros) in John 1:1 wrong it means more like face to face. The idea of Jesus being God was carried right after the apostle John by Johns disciple Ignatius with his letters to the Ephesians and Romans. It is found with a Bible, Greek Concordance and history book!
@GenerationY1000 I have to learn more about Ignatius. Just recently heard of him. But yeah I had two runs with The Way and realised the were wrong about the trinity and many other things. I wish my family would see the truth, youre right its all about what he says, people just trust his studies, he could say any word means whatever and many dont study original texts so it sound logical
It's amazing how how confused people get who are not actually a part of The Way International. The way believes that the bible is the Word of God to the degree that it is properly interpreted thought its own context and common sense comparisons within the Word of God itself. One of Victor Paul Wierwille's most famous quotes was to say that it's not what VP Wierwille says its what the Word says. Can't get any clearer than that. Not sure where these guys get there info!?
@LIGHT2U4U dooesnt mean he intepreted it correctly though. He had his own ideas about the trinity and makes up different translations to deny that Jesus and the holy spirit are God. The bible warns of false prophets coming in light of an angel, it even says those who die Jesus came in the flesh are of antichrist. In the way Jesus didnt come in the flesh he was just born/created. God was IN christ reconciling the world unto HIMSELF.
@chucky55122 very good point have Come in the flesh -meaning from one place to another-prexistent, John 6:38, I came down from heaven is what Jesus states, excellent point on having Come in the flesh as opposed to being created and being born. Its funny how many miss that point, to be honest most do. Thank you for pointing out this marvelous truth. Amen
@42cody1 The heresy of that verse wrongfully interpreted is, the say it means that he lived, was born, not necessarily that the Son entered into a body. We can always fit the scriptures to our beliefs. They say I and my Father are one just means a team, same agenda. When I point out to my brother the Jews knew Jesus was claiming to be God/equal with God, he just says the misunderstood. Jesus wouldve corrected them though. "I didnt say I was God, I'M his Son" well son of God is deity, they knew.
Respond to this video... and i was in the way, learned a lot their though many of my beliefs are different now, God did use it to set my foundation in learning of him, from there just had to come to the truth.
If you want to think for yourself and not be imprisoned by religion I would suggest learning how to study the bible on your own. Most people don't truly study the bible and get their facts straight. God is the authority of His Word. It's our privilege to understand it accurately. To the extent that we Christians can all agree on that is the extent that we can start having more unity and make a real difference in this world! I've been attending Way Fellowships for years! God Bless!
duh very simple you do not rightly divide the Word of truth.... you follow the doctrines of man over the doctrines of the Word of God...... well Jesus Christ is not God. i knew that when i was 12. way before i ever heard of the Way......sounds like a good book......
@sogwap12 Hello, I was noticing your posts, have you read the book, I have as well, would you care to maybe speak about it with me openly? I found it very wanting and lacking. I hope that we could have a profitable discussion concerning Wierwille and his book. Scripture obviously declares that Christ is the Shepard for mankind Jn 10 and who is the Shepard of mankind other than God.
@sogwap12 actually the book was found to be very wanting, there is a scholastic rebuttal to the book on the most comprehensive website on the Way International called "About the Way Internatiuonal''. This website has a comprehensive rebuttal of this book Chapter by chapter. Please take a look.
To all -Man can tempt God to anger and has since the beginning, God cannot be tempted means a far deeper meaning, it means that no matter what anyone does to tempt God- he doesn't have any desire toward or care towards things that humans lust after. He is above it all, He 's God. It doesn't mean that man cant attempt to tempt God. We can attempt it plenty but it doesn't phase him. Satan can attempt to tempt Christ butn it didn't phase him either why? because he was also God.
@42cody1 There you go again. You say what God means without using scripture to substantiate. Go on to someone else please. I really have no desire to hear your personal opinion (no offense meant). I am only interested in the word of God and what it ACTUALLY SAYS: God is the father, Christ is his son, Christ sits at the father's right hand. The Father is greater than the son. The son did the will of his father and his father was well please. God is the creator, Christ is the messiah.
@MB3Productions You cant get out that easy. Your redicule and editorial excuses carry no water but are obvious dodges, I think you and I need to be godly one to the other rather than redicule or falsely accuse the other. I guess you are a king james only and that is fine. The phrase I used was a biblical term but to please you I was speaking about Philipians 2:6 "who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,but made himself of no reputation-took the form of a servant
@MB3Productions Phil 2:6 Christ who being in the Form of God- FORM =morphe from the Greek= NATURE. The subject is Christ being in Nature God..... Then VS 7 took the Form=morpe= in the Greek =NATURE of a servant, and made in the likeness of men. So Christ "Being" in the Form =Nature of God- therefore not a servant. Hence God's nature is God himself because Christ was not a servant but had to take the Form of a Servant because in God's form he couldnt Die, because he was in very Nature God.
@MB3Productions You have beenvery pejudgemental si in your assumptins when all I have done is systemtically taken you through the old testament and the new testament and out of love by the way to help open your eyes and all you have done is offer no answers to my questions and run and hide behind the term called Editorializing when all I ever done is mention scripture. You have offered no logical answers to my biblical references because the biblical recor defeats your position so you rediucle.
@MB3Productions My posts on here was to identify both FORMS of Christ which is biblical. One was of God thus he was Equal to God as John 5:18 shows and the other was to show his other Nature as Human thus he could say the Father was Greater than he. I was merely showing how both Equality and inferiority could be shown from the biblical record so that all scripture can be consideredfor an informed decision about who Jesus is rather than taking 1 verse and build a theology around it as you have.
@MB3Productions With these biblical fact in mind you have never exlained how Jesus as Son of Godis Equal to God John 5:18, but you have rather dodged and rediculed me. I have effectively shown youfrom scriptures that it is indeed the Trinitarian view that has openly accept both verses about Jesus' inferiority to God and hisEquality to God. You have chosen only the partial and not the whole biblical record and chose only the one verse to build a belief on. You are guilty of private interpretation
@MB3Productions you say that yo are interested in God's word yet you adhere to only the inferiority of Christ when the biblical record states that he was also EQUAL. I have considered both verses but you have considered only one so go sell this lie to someone else. No offense meant just being truthful. I actually agreed with everything you said in your 2nd posts as all Trinitarians would do, what you fail o consider is that Jesus is called creator in scripture. Heb 1:10-12
Guys my college studies will be starting up this week will be off for a while due to this plus work and ministry issues. You guys please quit posting silly things like the words deity of chist are not found in the bible- that is so silly, Jesus is God, John 20:28, Matt 1:23, John 5:18, John 5:23, John 8:58, John 10:14, 10:30, Rev 1:17. Its not that hard people- be good to Johnankerberg ministries they are trying to help you. LOVE IN CHRIST.
@42cody1 Quit posting "Silly things"? Some of us choose not to use or subscribe to "religious" terms that are not Biblical. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus is not God. Jesus sits at the right hand of the father, not of himself or a third of himself. Jesus said the father is greater than the son (John 14:28). Jesus said he did not his own will, but that of the father. God said "This is my SON in whom I'm well pleased". Satan would have NEVER tried to tempt God himself, in any form. Duh.
@MB3Productions Your statement that Jesus is Not God but the Son of God would be equivalent to saying that Jesus is Not Man but is instead the Son of Man. Cant you see that would be unlogical? Jesus is both Son of Man= Man, Human, Jesus is the Son of God= that he is God. John 14:28 lol, here we go again man I answered that already. Circular, OK - when Jesus came to the Earth from heaven John 6:38 he came in the form of a servant- hence a human thus in this state said the Father is Greater.
@42cody1 Christ said the father is greater than the son (John 14:28), so that's where I put God. Just above Christ. When someone sits at right hand of another, who is greater? Between a father and son, in the time of Yeshua, who was considered greater? It's plain and simple. Christ even said it plain and simple. Christ was tempted, God cannot be tempted. It's simple. Anyone reading our posts sees your complicated explanations and editorializing as opposed to me quoting the word. simple
@MB3Productions Not hardly just giving an over view of old testament and new testament to shed light on the full Identity of Christ. You are missing the point of right hand of power, that was considered a blasphemous statement by those who heard it. Matthew 26:64, 65 Why was it considered blasphemous? Because it insulted the unique a dignity of God right at his throne. So Right Hand of power means differently then what you are thinking. Christ was Equal to God. John 5:18
It's so odd. In many "Christian" book stores the "Cult" section is larger than the reference section. The term "Cult" by today's "Christian" definition is anyone who does not subscribe to the Trinitarian Doctrine. Yet it wasn't taught or defined in the scriptures, but by Romans in the 4th century. Actually, Paul & the Apostles and all the early Christians and their beliefs that Christ was the messiah and that he had risen from the dead were considered a cult. Ironic, isn't it?
@MB3Productions you mean the orthodox doctrine, that was settled in scriptures long before the early fourth century. Now all gosples call Christ Son of God hmmm? I wonder what that means? You even have the definition of it in John 5:18. that is to help you out.
@42cody1 If God isn't going to use language correctly, then it renders it useless as a form of communication. Son of God means that God is his father. I'm the son of Joe. Joe is my father. Simple. But once again, religion seeks to complicate things. When one needs to continually editorialize to substantiate their beliefs or to reconcile them in scriptures, it's quite telling. I believe what the word actually says, as opposed to what I either want it to say or have been told it says.
@MB3Productions Well Son of Joe, what type of being is your earthly father? a human I would hope, so what would the Son of Joe be? a dog? a cat ? an ape? lol, of course not you would have the sameness of Nature and Equality of Being as Joe, thus a human. So what Nature would the Son of God have? Since the Fathers Nature is eternal and uncreated? what Nature would his Son have? Lets be logical here.
@42cody1 By Adam, a man, sin entered into the world. Then by logic, by Christ (the last Adam I Cor. 15:45), man could be redeemed. 1 Timothy 2:5 says: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". Christ was born of an earthly mother, so he was human. His father was God, so that he could have untainted (sinless) blood. Yet he had the ability to sin, although he never did. That's why he could be tempted (Hebrews 4:15), but God cannot (James 1:13).
@MB3Productions What I find unique about the first Adam was that he wanted to obtain to be as God knowing both good and evil- he wanted to exalt himself. The 2nd Adam did the opposite, he humbly chose to leave the heavenly estate and take the form of a servant. John 6:38. This was a choice he made "BEFORE" coming to the Earth Phil 2:5-12 and if that wasnt enough he also become obdeient even to death for our sakes. The 2nd Adam was God humbly choosing to become man,whereas the 1st Adam 2 b as God
@42cody1 if Christ had to make a humble decision to take a servants form the what was he before he took a servants form seeing how all created beings are servants? To be logical and honest there is only One Being that is Not a servant by Nature. So whatever form he was in prior to coming to Earth from Heaven it couldnt be of created origin by logic. The whole point Paul is making in Phil 2:5-12 is that Christ left his Greater position and took a servants Nature because he wasnt a servant.
@42cody1 You mention Phi 2:5-12. When is says "equal with God', the Greek word for equal is einai, which means: to be, to exist, to happen, to be present. God was in Christ (like Christ is in me) reconciling the world to himself. Jesus was here on God's authority, doing God's will. John 5:30: "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." Jesus sought NOT his own will, but Gods
@MB3Productions Well whatever the Greek word means has to flow with the context, The context shows that Christ who being in very Nature God had to take the form of a Servant. This decision was made by him in Heaven ; this also means that while he was in heaven he wasnt a servant. Humans are servants, Angels are servants, anything created is a servant. Christ prior to coming to the Earth was Not a servant. So who could he be then logically? Only God. Thats simple reasoning.
@42cody1 You explain using non Biblical terms like "Christ who being in the very Nature God...". You claim what Christ's decisions were without quoting scripture and when you do, it's out of context and padded with your own editorial opinion. I am only concerned with what God's word ACTUALLY SAYS, not what you say it means. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." So either there is no interpretation, or the word interprets itself
@MB3Productions John 5:18 says that the Jews wanted to kill Christ for claiming to be God's Son because he was saying "God was his Father thus making himself EQUAL with God. So the Greek term for EQUAL is ( ison) it means to claim for one's self the NATURE, AUTHORITY, AND RANK which belong to GOD. Joseph H Thayer Greek English Lexicon pg 307, So take it from a non trinitarian scholar such as Thayer. I guess he is ediotorializing to. Everyone can see on here who is the Biased one. Good day sir.
@MB3Productions Continued..This is why John the Baptist stated " There comes one after me whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose. Why? John gives us this answer "because he was Before me" John 1:15. Now this is the person John prepared the way for which just so happened to Yahweh God. Isaiah 40:3. This is consistent with scripture Yahweh was to send Yahweh to dwell among men. Zacheriah 2:10-12 and the Word was God, John 1:1 and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
@42cody1 coming out of the way, i see my fam has the same prob. They can only mention Christs human side and not his deity, this is what the classes force upon you, human human human x100 for 3 straight hours brainwash. I dont know if you went there or not but thats what happens cant ask questions or anything just a videotape of someone telling u what they believe is true and never touch his deity so the way always starts Jesus out in the gospels and a few prophecies of him in the o.t.
@MB3Productions Yes I agree with you on most of what you said, but what you are only seeing is the humanity of Christ which started when he was conceived in Mary. This view that you take is found wanting when it cant explain how Christ came down from heaven John 6:38, or how he as the Lord laid the foundation of the Earth and the heavens being his handy work. Hebrews 1:10-12 or how he Raised himself from death. John 2:19-22. There had to be more to Jesus than just his HUMANITY.
@MB3Productions In looking at you statement once again I noticed that the only significance you state for God being Jesus Father was only to give him sinless blood, wow so it was just the blood that was between theFather and Son, You are now editorializing? Christ Nature as Son of God included sinless blood but much more. That nature entitled him to receive worship Hebrews 1:6, be called Creator Col 1:15-17, Hebrews 1:10-12 and to be called God. John1:1, 20:28, Rev 1:17, John 10:30.
@42cody1 You are incorrect in regards to what was considered "orthodox" doctrine. It differed depending on where one was. The Romans, who's own religion (mythology) had a trinity and their gods come in the flesh did indeed adopt what later became the Trinity early. However, those in the east did not. Especially those who had converted from Judaism. For they knew it was impossible for God himself to be the Christ. For it was a man, Adam, that sinned so a man (Jesus) had to be the messiah.
@MB3Productions I guess that since the pagans prayed, and believed in a guy named Tammuz means that Christian prayer and the resurection of Christ is pagan as well. The Christian Triune God is monotheistic and different from the Roman polytheistic structures. Didnt you know the 1st century church was persecuted for invoking, adoring, and worshipping Jesus christ as Yahweh God. Acts 9:14, Romans 10:9-13. This is why Saul/Paul initially persecuted the church?
@42cody1 Tammuz was a guy the pagans believed rose from dead. I would be wrong to say that this was why Christians believed in the resurrection. The Apostles gave the account of what the early christians believed and why. The four gospels define the identity of Christ. All call him ultimately the Son of God. The Son of God by way of Nature was God. Uncreated.
@carolinezim It is a great book, but I really think Weirwille made a huge mistake calling it that. I don't believe that was divinely inspired. It should have been called, "Who is Jesus Christ?" But what's done is done. I was never a member of the Way International. I was searching for truth and someone took me to a class & I signed up. It blessed my life & I continue to seek the truth and grow in God's word. I lost that book & cannot find another now. Do you know where to get one?
@MB3Productions I lost mine too, and gladly so seeing how he confused Modalsim with Trinitarianism many times and never put togther a correct definition for the term son of God=DEITY. Lol. He tried to discredit a few verses that called Jesus God by comparing them against the term Son of God never taking in the fact that they were never in disagreement in the first place. His Doctorate wasnt even accredited by real accrediation.
I still don't buy the fairytale of trinity, just like I know we don't die and go to heaven.
I would be interested to find some Xwayers to do some word study's again. especially if your in the Joplin, Missouri area. by the way, no pun intended, 42cody1, it isn't yahweh, it's Yeshua, ask a Jew, hehehe
@captaintim38 hey I can appreciate a little sarcasm as long as its constructive. It is obvious your point is to come here and try to discredit the site for speaking against you ministry or a ministry that you are still partial to. I simply meant that Yeshua means yahweh saves. Does it not, we already know when Christ used the " I am" statement it showed that he was preexistent and self sufficient as it did in Exodus 3:14. I left the WAY ministry as well. I AM= no doubt being God EX 3:14.
@captaintim38 If you noticed I said it was just a thought - if Yeshua means "Yahweh SAVES" as it does then Christ knew the meaning of the name and said "I AM" which also happens to be a name of God showing that he is the eternal being- notice the all went backward and fell to the ground. It is so implied in the context. Anyways XWAYERS are the last people I would go to find truth especially when they never come out to study With the REAL SCHOLARS.
@42cody1 ; it's ok, you want to believe in trinity, go ahead, I'm not stopping you. I just don't buy it, to many contridictions for it to be the truth. I can site you 54 times the Messiah is called the "son of God", never once god the son. was Yeshua tempted? i think so, but it says God cannot be tempted. If you are correct then just go to a catholic church were mary is the mother of god, how stupid is that. Just a thought for all you real scholars out there. Cheers, The Captain
@captaintim38 what is funny captian is the exact opposite is true withyour statement on contradictions. The contradiction come only and I say only because ppl dont consider the full view of scripture- whether through being biased ect. The early church had to deal with the fact the were applying True worship to Christ. They knew Christ accepted it and said he himself would raise his body from death and that was the only sign to the Jews of his identity and yet you reject it as they do.
@captaintim38 do you remember as I do reading Wierwille's book Jesus Christ is not God? How that he brought out 4 to 5 verses that claimed Christ as God and used the excuse ofthe term son of God being used like 100 or so times to disprove the deity of Jesus, saying you have to take the unclear verses and fit them with those that are clear- such as the 100 or so verse that claim he is Son of God as opposed to God? They only contradict if the term S of G is given a improper definition.
@42cody1 I would say that jc is not God was wierwille's only book he didn't plagerize from someone else, BUT there was a lot more than 4 or 5 things and it does make sense. I ask you, could Yeshua have said no to the cross? I think so, as he prayed, to the ONE true God to let the "cup" or experience pass from him. But there was no other way, blood is required for forgiveness of sin. I often ask my jewish friends how they get forgiveness, there is no answer because they also know it requires blod
@captaintim38 wow, your point is what that blod was required for forgiveness of sin-I agree. So we agree he Plagiarized. progress yes! the 4 or 5 things is what he used s an excuse against the Trinitarians which was rediculous. The 4 or 5 things he used was to discredit those verses that call christ God as unclear, when they were never unclear or in disagreement with Christ as Son of God. He built a straw man around this whole concept.
@captaintim38 yesChrist prayed to the one true God let this cup pass from me yet not my will but yours be done. Now John 6:38 says that Christ came down from HEAVEN. Not to do his will but the will of the one who sent him. So Christ came down from heaven- isnt that neat and i wonder what he was in Heaven?? Hmm? So he preexisted wow? hmmm? what could he be? a man, nooo? hmm? but as a man he said take this cup from me hmm? could it be possible he had two natures? Wow, that could be it!
@captaintim38 so my point is these contradictions as you speak of are not contradictions but rather us as ppl not fully understanding what certain terms mean and how they are applied in their proper context. So you say to many contradcition when it was the churches whole avoid contradiction thus that is how the Doctrine of the Trinity came about as to fit all th pieces together in harmonous unity within monotheism this way the deity verses fit along with those that show subjection. In love
@42cody1 Ever heard of a religion know as "mystery babylon religion"? there is a book about it with that title ( a little pricey) but these 3 in 1 gods are not new. most all pagan religions have a 3in 1 god. this is how you get mother/child worship and all these others pagan belief's. I want to see you write that Mary is the mother of god. can you do that? no, far flung theological BS, just simple logic, if your jesus is god, then Mary is the mother of god, simple. this is where trinity fails.
@captaintim38 wow you guys are circular not meaning just you. The 3 in one were actually deities that headed up a patheon of other Deities, far different from the Trinity of what is found in scripture. Wow mary is the mother of God? hmm I wonder where a statement like that might Come from, Behold a virgin shall conceive and they shall call his name Emanuel meaning with us is the God = ho theos. Matthew 1:23
@captaintim38 so do you rememeber who the voice of te one crying in th wilderness was? John the Baptist, Who did John the Baptist prepare the Way for in Isaiah 40:3 Jehovah our Elohim. Who then showed up after John the Batist prepared the Way in John 1, Jesus of course. Its not really rocket science ppl Jesus is Jehovah our Elohim our God. The First and Last, Rev 1:17, a title for only Jehovah by the way. For Jehovah is our Shepard Psalms 23 and in Jesus ownwods I am the GOOD SHEAPARD!! Amen!
@carolinezim I'm trying to respond to you but i keep messing up. I will work on my spelling lol, Plagiarize, I think that is right thank for pointing it out. I want to say what I put on here isn't to hurt anyone but in hopes of restoring peoples lives to the truth of God's word. I was once in the Way International myself but through God's grace and true teachers such as Walter Martin and John Ankerberg I have been able to find truth and Jesus the right Jesus has restored my life. In love.
guys there is a website with the sole purpose of explaining why the beliefs of the Way International is wrong not only from a historical perspective but also from a biblical perspective, It is the most comprehensive sight dedicated to refuting The Way International on every aspect of historical and theological error perpetuated by the heretical group, and by a True DOCTOR! It is called "ABOUT THE WAY INTERNATIONAL" just do a search with this name and it will show up. godbless the TRUTH!
The bible does indeed teach the deity of christ. It calls him "The First and Last" it calls him "creator", it calls him Shepard, It calls him God. If Christ wasn't God he wouldnt be called First=equals the eternal one. For only God was First. YAHWEH is my Shepard, Christ claims to be that ONE shepard in John 10. Jesus when claiming to mankinds shepard was a claim to Deity for only Yahweh is mankinds shepard.
@42cody1 explain how Hebrews says Jesus was tempted in all points as we, but James says God cannot be tempted. Oh, and try to explain it out of God's word. Don't "editorialize". Also, explain how God said "this is my son in whom I'm well pleased". Was Jesus talking to himself? Finally explain how Christ is "equal" to God, yet Christ HIMSELF says in John 14:28 "...for the father is greater than the son". There's many more, but let's start with those, shall we?
@MB3Productions You made several points it seems - let me address figures of speech first please. The term Son of God being a figure of Speech, as we know that figures of speech show as Weirwille puts it- it shows what God wants to really point out. The term Son of God carries with it a definition that is better suited to mean God the Son. It means that Jesus is the exact same nature as The Father and exactly the same quality of being. So when Jesus was called Son of God it meant Deity.
@42cody1 "Son of God" isn't a figure of speech. It's literal. Jesus is the son of God. Not figuratively, but literally. His only begotten son (John 3:16). "God the son" isn't to be found ANYWHERE in the Bible. It would have been simple enough to add it at least once. Your definition isn't substantiated in the word of God. It's basically just editorializing. Anyone can do that about anything. The word says Christ is the son of God. It NEVER says God the son.
@MB3Productions I agree that he is literally the Son of God, I when looking at E W Bullinger's figures of speech in the bible, he covers the term Son of God, It is understood among the ancient semetic languages that the term carries with it a meaning showing sameness of Nature and equality of being, I'm only telling you what the scholars are saying. Logically speaking a son has the same nature as his father, what is the fathers nature? can you find the same for the son in scripture? yes
@MB3Productions John 14:28 notice Jesus says in John 6:38 "for I (Jesus) came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me". So where was Jesus before becoming a human on Earth? Heaven of course. So what is he, just a man? Angel? God? he couldn't just be a man if he was preexistent. So now are choices are Angel or God, Jesus was a man no doubt, but he had to be more than just a man as well. Hebrews 1:13 declares hes not an ANGEL. So prior to coming here waht is he?
@42cody1 Christ was pre-existent in God's foreknowledge, hence God mentioning Christ to Satan in the garden of Eden (Genesis 3:15). When Christ was actually born, those words (logos) God spoke concerning him "became flesh). The Bible says Jesus was a man. It refers to him as "the son of man" because his earthly mother (Mary) and "the son of God" because of his father, God. Pretty simple. Religion seeks to complicate it. No doubt the adversary at work.
@MB3Productions Hey, I refer you to the Journal of Biblical Literature concering the artcile written by Dr. Phillip B Harner concering John 1:1 Vol 92 , in this he gives a wonderful breakdown of the John 1:1 passage. I believe it is 1976, its been awhile just please take a look at it. It is a very systematic teaching over the passage. You can find it over the internet, It is I believe called qualatative anartharous predicate nouns, lol, I am sure I misspelt some of that.
@MB3Productions If Jesus was only a man he could not have come down from heaven John 6:38, or resurrected himself John 2:19-22. Didn't you read my posts I don't put these down here for you not to read your responses nto me are redundant and they show that I waste my time showing you things because you are not reading them. i'm working with you real hard here out of Love- you could at least read my posts.I covered all this already and it just bounces off your head. pls read them.
@42cody1 If you want to embrace the Trinity doctrine, then join the crowd. I choose to believe God. He said Jesus is his son in whom he's well pleased. The Bible specifically says Christ is the son of God. The Bible doesn't use the religious terms, "Trinity", "God the son", or "Deity of Christ". It DOES say Christ sits at the right hand of his father. It DOES say Christ did NOT his own will, but the father's. It DOES say Christ was tempted and God cannot be. That's good enough for me.
@MB3Productions What I notice among unbelievers is that they usaully embrace the humanity of Christ and magnify it all the while rejecting the verses that show so much more and when logically explained they still hold to only half the view. The Trinitarian Doctrine which is the orthodox Christian view why? because it seeks to find the answers so that all of scripture fits like a complete puzzle so that there is not pieces left out. See your view still can answer how Jesus rose himself from death
@MB3Productions Micah 5:2 once again sir- shows Jesus as existing from from eternity and through his goings forth. Phil 2:5-12 shows that Jesus made a humble decision to come to Earth from Heaven. Hebrews 1:2 shows Jesus as taking an active role in creation, John 1;1 says Jesus was before the beginning and existing in a loving intiment relationship with the Father for all eternity. The word was "WITH=PROS" and the word was Theos=God. With=pros- shows disticntion in loving intimacy.
@MB3Productions wow if he was preexistent in Gods foreknowledge the how did the Father say to Christ "You Lord laid the foundations of the Earth and the Heavnes are the Works of your hands?? Hebrews 1:10-12 hmmm? or how could he make a humble decision to look on our affairs and take on the form of a servant for oursakes and become obedient to death?? hmm this was done in heaven by the way Phil 2:5-12?? Or how could his goings forth be from ancient days from the days of eternity?Micah 5:2 hmmmm?
@MB3Productions Now if Jesus was the Son of God which a functional term that denotes equality of Nature and eqaulity of Being then he would have the same UNCREATED NATURE. Now God knew in his foreknowledge that Christ would come forsure, no doubt foreknowledge is used in this context and it is ok to do so it was foreordained that God would be sent to save mankind. Zaceriah 2:10-12. It was simply Gods foreordained plan to come to earth as a man hence he could say "let us make man in our image"
@42cody1 I received over 19 emails of your posts to me. You have to jump through so many hoops to editorialize and sell theTrinitarian doctrine. Yet you deny all the contradictions it creates! You simply continue to editorialize to explain it away, but cannot use the actual words in scripture because in reality, they do not say there is a "Trinity". That's paganism that crept into the early church. I'll stick with what the word actually says. I have a clear conscience and peace.
@42cody1 I believe in the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Noah, Moses, David, Solomon and the prophets. I believe in the God and father of my risen Lord and savior, Yeshua (Christ Jesus). I believe Christ is the son of God, the messiah, the savior of the world, King of kings, Lord of lords who was crucified, hung on a tree, and rose after 3 days and now sits at the right hand of God. You do not deny any of this, do you? And all of this is in the Bible. But the Trinity is not.
@MB3Productions I believe all those things as well, and nicely put sir, are you meaning the word Trinity isn't found in the bible or the concept of Trinity isnt found in the bible, I would agree the word isnt found in the bible, namely because it is a Latin word. Sorry for so many posts Ill try to keep it shorter. Rather than editorializing as the term you use I was merely trying to take you thru the old and new testament. I have systematcially set forth what is in scripture is all.
@MB3Productions I made the comment earlier that we can find God through his attributes, namely God is all knowing, everywhere present, all powerful ect, Then if Scriptures show the same for Jesus Christ then you have two choices either to reject the truth of scripture or change to believe scripture. Now scriptures show that Christ has all these attributes and God doesnt share the glory of his attributes with anyone does he? but we have Christ sharing in those and more.
@42cody1 Nobody is attacking the Christian faith. We simply hold the 1st century Church to be more accurate according to God's word than the Christian religion that grew from the Roman Empire. Christ was not from Europe and the Bible wasn't written in European language(s). Many pagan beliefs crept into Christianity. Did you know the coloring of eggs on Easter was originally eggs painted with the blood of 3 month old babies sacrificed who were conceived in ritual orgies the year before?
@MB3Productions wow really maybe that is why those eggs stink so bad thanks for the egg info, i prefer mine scrambled. So easter eggs makes Jesus not God now wow. thats a big leap dude.
@42cody1 Did you know Christmas (December 25th) was originally a pagan holiday of the Winter Solstice and Christmas trees were originally pagan phallic symbols decorated like the one's Gideon in the Old testament was instructed to cut down? Roman mythology (religion) also was blended with Christianity to make conversion simpler. John addressed in III John the question of who Christ was because some already had started to believe he was actually God. But then, they thought that of Paul.
@MB3Productions wow you mean to tell me that dec 25isnt the real bday of Jesus wow. Did you know if you rearrange the letters to Santa- you get the word Satan lol. Man thank you for the insight lol, Im sorry dude but your point is what- since some misplaced some worship towards Paul and the Popes therefore this doesnt make Jesus worship real? whats your point man. yea we have some bad apples in the bunch over the years - ok ty for the point.
@MB3Productions .... So what kind of being is Jesus if he came down from Heaven? hes not an angel, couldnt be a man at this point. The only logical choice is he was God. This is Consistent with scripture Zacheriah 2:10-12 declares God sent God to dwell among men. Zacheriah 12:10 declares God is to be pierced. Who got pierced when they hung on the cross? Jesus of course. John the Baptist preceeded Jesus. Who did John claim himself to be? The Voice of the one crying in the wilderness. Matt 3:1-3
@42cody1 FACT: the term "deity of Christ" does not exist in the Bible. FACT: the term "God the son" is NEVER once used in the Bible. FACT: The phrase "Jesus is God" in NEVER EVER used in the entire Bible. FACT: The word "Trinity" in NEVER once used in the Bible. Christ prayed that we would be one with God, as HE was. So, am I God too? 3 words for you: Figure of speech.
@MB3Productions The term Son of God, if you have E.W. Bullinger' s book- "this is the figures of seech book used by the Way Int''. E.W. Defines as Jesus being God by this statement. Trinitrians know that this term is to show the absolute equality of Jesus to that of the Father. The jews as well knew this and this is exactly why he was crucified for claiming he was equal to the Father. John 5:18. The Trinitarians show that Christ was both a man and God at the same time.
@42cody1 You say Trinitarians (the word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible, by the way) know Jesus is equal to God, yet Christ himself declares in John 14:28 "....the father is greater than the son". Hmm, let me see...do I go with the Trinitarians or Christ? Uh...I'll go with Christ, thank you. :-)
@MB3Productions ok well, your view is your perrogative, I can only attempt to show you and it is your choice, I respect that. I addressed that verse in depth and carefully and systematically with you. Idon't really know as to what else I can do but pray for your eyes of understanding to be opened.That I will do for sure.
@MB3Productions Well please go with Christ by all means - The Alpha and the Omega - The First and the Last, the GREAT SHEPARD OF OUR SOULS, The creator, John1;3, Hebrews 1:10-12, Col 1:15-17. Note these are titles for ONLY GOD!!!!!!!!!
@MB3Productions I really already addressed the points where Christ is called God in scripture, so your attempting to have it shown in specific word for word analogies that suit the way you are wanting to have it heard. God the Son is derived from scripture calling Jesus God, Son of God, and other titles. Jesus is eternal, Micah 5:2, John 1:1. So the exact term may not be used in the way you want to see it but nonetheless it is a concept that is derived from scripture.
@MB3Productions Christ to my knowledge is speaking about unity of the believers, it is not in the context of deity, context is always important to get a full understanding of what is meant. Christ in the Context of Deity said I and the Father are one, this is something that the believer couldn't do due to the context of John 10, Where Christ identified himself as the ONE good shepard for all mankind. This would be the term that implies Deity at this point sir. Then he says I am one.....
@MB3Productions ... continued, John 10 shows Christ in the context of Deity claiming to be the One good Shepard. Ps 23 of course identifies this as Yahweh. Christ pullling from his knowledge of the old testament declares a title that belongs to God alone when in reference to Man's shepard and applies to himself which would have been blasphemous unless true. Then the climax of what he means by this happens when he states I and the Father are One. They picked up stones to stone him.....
@MB3Productions Christ in the context of deity also calimed that he was eternal. In John 8:58 he said before Abraham was I AM, This contrast the created origin of Abraham to the uncreated Nature of Jesus. Then they once again pikced up stones to stone him why? because they knew that only God was eternal. He claimed deity by this. Matthew 1:23 behold a virgin shall conceive his name shall be Emanuel = THE GOD. Ho Theos.applied to Jesus, Ho Theos is also applied to Jesus Hebrews 1:8.
@MB3Productions So these are reasons why Trinitarians use the term Deity of Christ, God the Son, Jesus is God, Trinity, God wants his believers to be One in unity, like minded, with no divisoins or conflicts just as The Father and Son are one in unity, without conflict and working together. It wasn't an invitation to join the Godhead. The terms are used to explain in a easy way to show concepts that are in fact derived from scripture. Father is God, Jesus is God, Holy Spirit Acts 5:3-4.
@42cody1 I'm aware the Trinitarians use all kinds of terms not to be found in God's word, and therein lay the problem. I'm to study to show myself approved unto God (II Timothy 2:15), so I refrain from using man's religious terms. I prefer to use the terms God uses. So I never refer to Christ as God the son, because God never referred to Christ this way. Nobody in the Bible did. Not the Apostles, not Satan, not the Romans...nobody. So there you have it.
@MB3Productions well, lets see what God says about a term called Emauel= meaning with us is "the God". ho theos. this is in reference to Matthew 1:23, where Jesus is being born and named. Did the Father "Yahweh" continue to support this terms meaning, we have have him pointing it out in Hebrews 1:8 applied the meaning of "The God" to CHRIST once again, and then foes on to say to Jesus "and you LORD, LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THEEARTH AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORK OF YOUR HANDS.
@MB3Productions Contd, forgivemy many post but you bring several issues. So the term Son of God to you means that Jesus was not preexistent but was created. Then why does John apply terms of Deity to Jesus also - terms that are only for God, no created creature could have such terms applied to him without it being Blaspehmy and note logically this is what the Jews considered when Jesus said he was Son of God, they killed him for it. Why because he made himself EQUAL TO GOD. John 5:18, John 5:23.
@MB3Productions So the word Trinity comes from the Latin word Trias, meaning in one. First used around 170 ad to explain the Christain God to the pagans who were used to polytheistic structures- to say NOOOOO! A MONOTHEISTIC GOD ALONE, NOT 3. Scripture atest that there is One God, he is called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit , God is monotheistic but yet defined as 3 persons. The Father is etenernal, The Son is eternal, John 8:58, Micah 5:2, and the Holy Spirit is called eternal. TRINITY.
@42cody1 Trias meaning three in one, or 3 in the unity of one, it was a latin word used in 170 AD to help the church explain the Nature of the Godhead. Trias is where the Word Trinity came from, notice the time line???? 170 AD. Nicea was 325 AD. The church was already teaching it. anyways just a thought.
@42cody1 Before John was dead, pagans were already referring to Christ as God or "a god". Hence III John addressing this by stating clearly Christ was God's son so many times (never God the son). They did this to Paul & the Apostles as well when they performed miracles (or rather, God through them). The Romans had their "trinity", and in their mythology (religion), their gods came into the flesh. So the Trinity has pagan origins, not Biblical.
@MB3Productions Just a thought, why was the church being persecuted in the first place? Notice when Saul was persecuting the church, there was a certain disciple name ananias, acts 9 I believe, there he converses with the Lord and said Lord this guy Saul is persecuting all that "CALL UPON YOUR NAME" who was this? Jesus of course this term "Call upon the name of the Lord" means to invoke, adore, and worship the Lord, that is Jesus Christ. This is why the church was being persecuted.
@MB3Productions Actaully the opposite is true, I could also say well the pagans had a guy named tummaz that supposedly was resurrected from death therefore Jesus being resurrected comes from pagan origins, that bis not any proof at all. The Trinity is nothing like anything found in the pagan structures, you could find pagans having a belief in 1 God, 2 Gods, 3 Gods ect so we you could also say hey the monothesitic jewish belief in yahweh is of pagan origin. this is a decpetive tactic they use.
@MB3Productions Contd. the pagan structures were polytheistic in nature usually, so they might have 3 main gods that headed up a patheon of many deities. The doctrine of the Trinity -which is supported by scripture is the belief in a monotheistic God - nothing like the pagan structures. I refer you to look at the kingdom of the cults book over the word showing composite unity. In hebrew language they understood that there could be composite unity. Walter Martin pg 90. I wished we had more room.
@MB3Productions Contd. What I notice is you mentioning that they about Paul and the apostles being referred to as a god thru performing miracles, the difference between Paul and the apostles is that they corrected this misconception totally. FACT Jesus never corrected worship applied to himself as the apostles did. He accepted it everytime. In fact the Father calls the Son creator and commands that all the angels worship Christ. Hebrews 1:6, 1:10-12. The Father also calls him God Hebrews 1:8
@MB3Productions Contd it wouldnt do good to say that it means something less, because its in the context of deity as the context of Hebrews shows. The Father wasn't the Father until the Son was the Son, so it is a functional term, Christ is the Eternal word. Now Christ as Son of God literally is of the same substance and essence of the Father and is the only begotten God John 1:18. and since Christ is the Only begotten God who does this make him? YAHWEH.
@MB3Productions So my point is it wasnt before the Apostle died that they started calling Christ God/god, it is the very initial reason as to why the church was being persecuted in the first place. They were "Calling Upon the Name of the Lord" that is Jesus Christ- meaning that they were persecuted for "INVOKING, ADORING, AND WORSHIPPING Christ as God. Can you name any scholar on par with Dr. Thayer that would say less for this term? Thayer's Greek English Lexicon pg 239.
@MB3Productions So John referring to Jesus as "Son of God" you think he meant a created Son therefore Jesus isn't God. Scriptures shows differently it has this same John applying terms of absolute Deity to Jesus Christ by calling him "THE FIRST AND THE LAST" Which is the same thing as saying "The Alpha and Omega" This is either blasphemy or Jesus is worthy of this NAME because he is Almighy God Rev 1:8. In this passage the term is applied to the term ALMIGHTY. So this fits ''God the Son"
@MB3Productions logic dictates that your definition for "Son of God" would not have been grounds for them to crucify him at all. So the term "Son of God" carries with it by proof of their response that Jesus claimed to be Equal to the Father. John's definition of Son of God is that he was equal-therefore John could apply Titles of Deity to Christ and this is exactly what the Trinitarians are saying and John agrees with them by his commentary in John 5:18.
@MB3Productions So now we see John not agreeing with your definition of Son of God-especially since he called Jesus "The First and Last" which is God alone Isaiah 44:6,cross reference to Rev 1:17. If Jesus wasn't God how could he have resurrected himself? John 2:19-22. So this is why Trinitarians say God the Son, because it means Son of God.
@MB3Productions What did I show to you here?-, that the term "Son of God" as applied to Jesus by John doesn't agree with your definition, I showed that Jesus was Worshipped at the ORIGIN of the Church rather than several decades later. I showed you that the Trinity is different than pagan deity structures. I showed you that John applied terms of absolute Deity to Jesus Christ hence he doesn't agree with "Your" definition of Son of God. I have showed you that Jesus is called God by God.
@MB3Productions So your only defense is to say I editoralizing - sir I only took you to scripture in a logical systematic way and had you read my posts previously you would have not approached the same arguements because they were all systematically answered with scripture. You either reject the scriptures or you didn't read my post very well. To say I editoralized is illogical. I took you to old testament and new. Being biased isn't a way to search for truth sir. In Christ
@MB3Productions Figure of Speech = Son of God, please remember to study what this figure of speech means. I have 3 words for " I love you" pls go study what this figure of speech means. ...... The Father was talking about his Son "this is my Son" ect When we say Jesus is God we mean that he is absolutely distinct from the Father we dont mean he is the Father. That was a heresy known as modalism in the eraly church. Also view of Oneness Pentecostals.
@MB3Productions continued... John the Baptist is called the voice of one crying in the wilderness. Isaiah prophesied this in Isaiah 40:3 The voice of the one crying in the wilderness =John the Baptist, now look at Isaiah 40:3 John the Baptist says " Prepare the way of the Lord = Yahweh God, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. John the Baptist prepared the Way for YAHWEH GOD in the desert. Hmmm the what happened hmmm? oh yea Jesus showed up. Jesus is Yahweh.
@MB3Productions ok now take a look at this. John the Baptist is to prepare the way for Yahweh God. Isaiah 40:3. Now notice in John 1:26 I baptize with water:but there standeth one among you whome ye know not; VS 27, he it is, who coming AFTER me HMM? some one is coming AFTER John the Baptist, I wonder who this could be Isaiah said he was preparing the WAY for Yahweh God, but lets see..VS 27 he it is, whom coming AFTER me is preferred Before me. Why is he preferred over John? hmmm? VS 27 CONT'D..
@MB3Productions So someone in John 1:26-31 is coming after John and this person is preferred over John why?? Now if the acount in Isaiah is true and it is then John is preparing the way for Yahweh God and Now in John 1:26-31 John is now talking about who this person is that he is preparing the way for.. Vs 27 contd.. his shoe latcheth I am unworthy to unloose? hmm? wow John can't even touch this guys feet in a worthy way? This guy who is coming must be real important. VS 30... CONTD...
@MB3Productions I wonder who this guy could be? VS 30... John sees Jesus coming to him and says " This is HE of whom I said, AFTER, me cometh a man which is preferred before because he was BEFORE me. Wow. This shows that this person is Before John I wonder who this is? Now God's word says Jesus said in John 6:38 "I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN " John now is saying this person is before him, Jesus says it as well. Isaiah says John prepared the way for Yahweh. Yahweh most definately was before John.
@MB3Productions So now we have Isaiah saying John the Baptist prepared the way of God in the desert, Then John said this person who was to come AFTER him was BEFORE him hmm? Yes God was before John. Then we have Jesus claiming he existed in Heaven and came down JOHN 6:38, NOW WHO LIVES IN HEAVEN? Oh God lives in heaven hmm? could Isaiah be right? wow. Now you might say oh angels were too Hebrews 1:13 says Jesus isnt a angel so what is the choice here? Jesus has to be the God John was to go b4.
@MB3Productions Now since Jesus existed as God in heaven as Phil 2:5-12 states then while in heaven he was most definitely in a GREATER position before he came to the Earth correct? So Jesus said that he came to fulfill his Father's will and that he left heaven for that purpose John 6:38 But Jesus has to be in GOD'S FORM in Heaven thus a Spirit being, plus God can't die as God something had to happen and it does Jesus made a humble decision to come to Earth as a man, in the form of a servant.
@MB3Productions Phil 2:5-12 who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God but made himself of no reputation "humble act" took the form of a SERVANT and was made in the likeness of men and became obedient to death. So Jesus had humanity added to his deity. He had the form of God, the also took the form of a servant. Form is morphe in the Greek means Nature, Christ maintained his deity and added humanity because as God he cant die, but as man he can.
@MB3Productions So Christ had 2 NATURES 1 AS God and 1 as man, as Man he hungered, slept, ate, had limitations and DIED. This is that form of a SERVANT that Jesus took on and died as a man of the cross, but as God he said in John 2:19-22 Tear down this temple and in 3 days.. Note he said someone will RAISE it up? who does he say will raise his Temple =his Body in 3 days letS continue, he said " I JESUS" WILL RAISE IT UP! One nature died=human and one nature lived on = God. He had both
@MB3Productions So as God he left heaven John 6:38, As God he was BEFORE John. John 1:30, As GOD he was before Abraham John 8:58, As God he claimed to be the good Shepard, As God he knew "all things" John 16:30 As God he RAISED "HIMSELF" from death, As GOD he came before John the Baptist Isaiah 40 :3 As God he was eternal micah 5:2, john 8:58, As man he Died, As man he was tempted in all points like as we were, As man he said the Father is Greater than I. John 14:28 Jesus is GOD AMEN.
The Romans and Greeks gods became "flesh" and could mate with humans, so they had "demigods". This trickled into Christianity even before the apostles had all died, hence I John reinstating Christ as the son of God. Jesus SAID he did NOT his OWN will, but that of the father. Jesus was tempted, God cannot be tempted. Jesus died, God cannot die. Jesus knowledge was limited, God's was not. Adam was a man, so the savior had to be. Jesus is called the 2nd Adam. God would hardly qualify.
@MB3Productions , well said. if Yeshua, his real name, was God. Then we are not redeemed. I worship only 1 God not 3, and I believe that Yeshua is the Messiah 2000 years ago and today. those that embrace trinity and dying and going to heaven commit the same sin as all pagans.
@captaintim38 The Bible does not now, or ever taught that Christ is God. He is God's son. That's not a bad place to be: second only to God. Yet God has exalted the name of Christ above all names and has place him at his right hand and on the judgment seat. I'm good with that.
@MB3Productions whoseame is above all names? Only Gods' you have a contradiction he is seconed only to GOD, AND THEN YOU SAY HIS NAME IS ABOVE ALL NAMES? JESUS NAME BEING ABOVE ALL= ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION THEREFORE GOD'S NAME IS INCLUDED. Since his name is above ALL names that makes him EQUAL to the Father, John 5:18 This is what John was meaning as Son of God he would have the same Nature of the Father and the Father's Nature is eternal, omnipresent, all powerfu, and uncrreated, so was CHRIST.
@captaintim38 The Trinity isn't the belief in 3 gods but rather that all are called God in scripture, since there is 1 God then the 3 must be that one God collectively. One is not always singular but also can be composite. Shall a man leave his father and mother and shal be joined unto his wife and they shall be ONE flesh. This gives I and the Father are One new meaning, and it is in the context of Deity -Jesus said he was the ONE good shepard and never contradicted psalms 23.
@captaintim38 YESHUA = YAHWEH OUR SAVIOR. I remember in John when they were coming to arrest Jesus Jesus said whom do you seek and they said Yeshua of Nazereth, Jesus said "I AM". Then they went backward and gell to the ground, when he said "I AM". Yeshua = YAHWEH OUR SAVOIR -They were looking for Yahweh our Savior and Jesus said "I AM" AND THE WENT BACKWARD AND FELL TO THE GROUND. Just a thought.
@MB3Productions The bible attributes worship to Christ and it has Christ accepting. Christ as God said before Abraham was, I am- thenthey picked up stones to stone him. Why because he claimed that he was from eternity. He compared the created origin of Abraham to that of his uncreated origin. Micah 5:2 his going forth are from the days of eternity. Man can be tempted Christ was both human and divine. Tear down this temple "his flesh" and in 3 days I I WILL RAISE IT UP. Two natures implied.
@MB3Productions You know their is a functional hierarchy within the Marriage. The husband is in a GREATER position than the wife is he not? Greater has to do with positions of Authority not of Nature. The husband being the leader of the godly household is in control but his wife has the sameness of nature and equality of being. The husband is not better in NATURE than her he is greater in position only. Now within the Godhead......Jesus by way of NATURE IS GOD. The woman by nature is MAN.
@carolinezim actually it was written by a man who stole and plagarized the works of other men and passed them off as his won which is dishonesty. he was a dishonest man. Proof he plagarized check out "about the way international" and then put the study in for yourself to find out the truth. There is a complete rebuttal against the book Jesus christ is not god and it silences this book effectively, I encourage you to look at it for yourself. why defend a book written by a man who plagarized.
@42cody1 Actually, that's not true. Wierwille gave E.W. Bullinger credit, and that's where he got most of his information. Have you ever attended the "Power for Abundant Living" class Weirwille taught? It hasn't been available for over 20 years. Just wondering.
@MB3Productions yes I have actually, I am a graduate of the class, 1987, actually. Im not for sure as per your response about Ew bullinger, I do know that Wierwille plagarized J E Stiles and E W Bullinger, Stiles especially in his Receiving the holy Spirit Today, Fairly certain that he Plagiarized EW Bullinger as well. I will go recheck the Bullinger thing sure, if i made a mistake my apologies.
@wellthatsnotenough amen Jesus is God, why ? because he is CREATOR, SHEPARD, FIRST AND LAST, THE LIGHT, ALPHA AND OMEGA. RECEIVER OF WORSHIP. Amen the are all titles to God alone and to apply them to JESUS is either blasphemy or that he is indeed all the things and if all these things then he has to be GOD.
@wellthatsnotenough Then please quote the chapter and verse where those words appear in that order please. I'll give you one where it could of, but doesn't for some "strange" reason, " 1 John 5:5 - "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" See? It says "Son of God". So according to the Bible, Jesus is the son of God. Do you refute that?
@wellthatsnotenough I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the Way International, or any denomination for that matter. My point of reference is the Bible, rightly divided. What I believe or don't believe is based on God's word. There are things I agree with the Pope on, yet I am not a Catholic. There are things I believe Jews believe, but that does not make me Jewish. The common ground I have with anyone is to be found in the Bible. I never had "WAYBRAIN". I've always used my own mind
@wellthatsnotenough I do not need to research The Way, Mormons, or Atheists, or Jehovah's Witness or Baptists. I have no interest in the Way International or any denomination for that matter. They divide the body of Christ. The term "Deity of Jesus" is to be found nowhere in scripture. If it is, please site the chapter and verse. Otherwise, I need not research that either. I research the word of God (the Bible) and that suffices. It does say that Jesus is the son of God. :-)
@MB3Productions so what are ya? inquiring minds want to know, lol so you are just a personal man with no denomination for affiliation, just going about alone and with a bible I assume? I agree the term deity of Christ is not found in scripture wow what did that prove lol? the term deity of the Father isnt in there either ??what ur point? I think your point is -is that you want it to say it in a fasion that suits to your liking. Yes what does Son of God mean???? can you tell me?
@MB3Productions you are making the same mistake as Weirwille at this point ad yes it says what you are saying, but what you fail to consider is what the term Son of God means. It means that the Son and the Father share the same Nature as all Sons do. So thus Jesus is eternal Micah 5:2, that he is God John 10, John 8:58, Matthew 1:23, that Jesus is creator Hebrews 1:10-12, Col 1:15-17, That he as God was sent by God Zacheriah 2:10-12 ect just a sample
It is unfortunate that the majority of christians believe in the trinity...there is absolutely no scripture that supports such a ludacris doctrine...Mainstrream christianity has never even considered studying the validity of the three in-one godhead, for some reason it has alway just been acceped for the most part...Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God but not God...he is our total sufficiancy and our only transport to the kingdom of heaven...god bless...
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John 1... in the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the WORD WAS GOD
verse 14... THE WORD BECAME FLESH
Jesus is God its not rocket science
roadrash7nrs 3 months ago
Yes the words "The Son of God" means Deity. I don't see how they miss it, and its a life and death choice for sure.
42cody1 5 months ago 11
All the way members are zombies to the truth, I have no clue why people are so easily convinced. Example: pay 15% of your income and god will take care of your problems. You guys keep paying the cult leaders while they sleep on a pile of money at night in their mansions while they laugh at you. The way members are ignorant fools, I've seen what they are all about. But I'm an outsider so in their case, I'm the devil trying to ruin them, right? stupid fools. Brainwashed freaks!
Kemjmcg19 6 months ago 2
If only VPW would follow his own words. It is not what the Bible says its what VPW says. His understanding of the greek word for know in regards to the virgin birth is wrong. In the book Jesus Christ is not God. He defines the word with (pros) in John 1:1 wrong it means more like face to face. The idea of Jesus being God was carried right after the apostle John by Johns disciple Ignatius with his letters to the Ephesians and Romans. It is found with a Bible, Greek Concordance and history book!
GenerationY1000 9 months ago
@GenerationY1000 I have to learn more about Ignatius. Just recently heard of him. But yeah I had two runs with The Way and realised the were wrong about the trinity and many other things. I wish my family would see the truth, youre right its all about what he says, people just trust his studies, he could say any word means whatever and many dont study original texts so it sound logical
chucky55122 6 months ago
It's amazing how how confused people get who are not actually a part of The Way International. The way believes that the bible is the Word of God to the degree that it is properly interpreted thought its own context and common sense comparisons within the Word of God itself. One of Victor Paul Wierwille's most famous quotes was to say that it's not what VP Wierwille says its what the Word says. Can't get any clearer than that. Not sure where these guys get there info!?
LIGHT2U4U 11 months ago
@LIGHT2U4U dooesnt mean he intepreted it correctly though. He had his own ideas about the trinity and makes up different translations to deny that Jesus and the holy spirit are God. The bible warns of false prophets coming in light of an angel, it even says those who die Jesus came in the flesh are of antichrist. In the way Jesus didnt come in the flesh he was just born/created. God was IN christ reconciling the world unto HIMSELF.
chucky55122 6 months ago
@chucky55122 very good point have Come in the flesh -meaning from one place to another-prexistent, John 6:38, I came down from heaven is what Jesus states, excellent point on having Come in the flesh as opposed to being created and being born. Its funny how many miss that point, to be honest most do. Thank you for pointing out this marvelous truth. Amen
42cody1 5 months ago 2
@42cody1 The heresy of that verse wrongfully interpreted is, the say it means that he lived, was born, not necessarily that the Son entered into a body. We can always fit the scriptures to our beliefs. They say I and my Father are one just means a team, same agenda. When I point out to my brother the Jews knew Jesus was claiming to be God/equal with God, he just says the misunderstood. Jesus wouldve corrected them though. "I didnt say I was God, I'M his Son" well son of God is deity, they knew.
chucky55122 5 months ago
Respond to this video... and i was in the way, learned a lot their though many of my beliefs are different now, God did use it to set my foundation in learning of him, from there just had to come to the truth.
chucky55122 6 months ago
If you want to think for yourself and not be imprisoned by religion I would suggest learning how to study the bible on your own. Most people don't truly study the bible and get their facts straight. God is the authority of His Word. It's our privilege to understand it accurately. To the extent that we Christians can all agree on that is the extent that we can start having more unity and make a real difference in this world! I've been attending Way Fellowships for years! God Bless!
LIGHT2U4U 11 months ago
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LIGHT2U4U 11 months ago
duh very simple you do not rightly divide the Word of truth.... you follow the doctrines of man over the doctrines of the Word of God...... well Jesus Christ is not God. i knew that when i was 12. way before i ever heard of the Way......sounds like a good book......
sogwap12 1 year ago 2
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@sogwap12 Hello, I was noticing your posts, have you read the book, I have as well, would you care to maybe speak about it with me openly? I found it very wanting and lacking. I hope that we could have a profitable discussion concerning Wierwille and his book. Scripture obviously declares that Christ is the Shepard for mankind Jn 10 and who is the Shepard of mankind other than God.
42cody1 1 year ago
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@sogwap12 actually the book was found to be very wanting, there is a scholastic rebuttal to the book on the most comprehensive website on the Way International called "About the Way Internatiuonal''. This website has a comprehensive rebuttal of this book Chapter by chapter. Please take a look.
42cody1 11 months ago
duh very simple you do not rightly divide the Word of truth.... you follow the doctrines of man over the doctrines of the Word of God......
sogwap12 1 year ago 2
To all -Man can tempt God to anger and has since the beginning, God cannot be tempted means a far deeper meaning, it means that no matter what anyone does to tempt God- he doesn't have any desire toward or care towards things that humans lust after. He is above it all, He 's God. It doesn't mean that man cant attempt to tempt God. We can attempt it plenty but it doesn't phase him. Satan can attempt to tempt Christ butn it didn't phase him either why? because he was also God.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 There you go again. You say what God means without using scripture to substantiate. Go on to someone else please. I really have no desire to hear your personal opinion (no offense meant). I am only interested in the word of God and what it ACTUALLY SAYS: God is the father, Christ is his son, Christ sits at the father's right hand. The Father is greater than the son. The son did the will of his father and his father was well please. God is the creator, Christ is the messiah.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
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@MB3Productions You cant get out that easy. Your redicule and editorial excuses carry no water but are obvious dodges, I think you and I need to be godly one to the other rather than redicule or falsely accuse the other. I guess you are a king james only and that is fine. The phrase I used was a biblical term but to please you I was speaking about Philipians 2:6 "who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,but made himself of no reputation-took the form of a servant
42cody1 1 year ago
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@MB3Productions Phil 2:6 Christ who being in the Form of God- FORM =morphe from the Greek= NATURE. The subject is Christ being in Nature God..... Then VS 7 took the Form=morpe= in the Greek =NATURE of a servant, and made in the likeness of men. So Christ "Being" in the Form =Nature of God- therefore not a servant. Hence God's nature is God himself because Christ was not a servant but had to take the Form of a Servant because in God's form he couldnt Die, because he was in very Nature God.
42cody1 1 year ago
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@MB3Productions You have beenvery pejudgemental si in your assumptins when all I have done is systemtically taken you through the old testament and the new testament and out of love by the way to help open your eyes and all you have done is offer no answers to my questions and run and hide behind the term called Editorializing when all I ever done is mention scripture. You have offered no logical answers to my biblical references because the biblical recor defeats your position so you rediucle.
42cody1 1 year ago
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@MB3Productions My posts on here was to identify both FORMS of Christ which is biblical. One was of God thus he was Equal to God as John 5:18 shows and the other was to show his other Nature as Human thus he could say the Father was Greater than he. I was merely showing how both Equality and inferiority could be shown from the biblical record so that all scripture can be consideredfor an informed decision about who Jesus is rather than taking 1 verse and build a theology around it as you have.
42cody1 1 year ago
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@MB3Productions With these biblical fact in mind you have never exlained how Jesus as Son of Godis Equal to God John 5:18, but you have rather dodged and rediculed me. I have effectively shown youfrom scriptures that it is indeed the Trinitarian view that has openly accept both verses about Jesus' inferiority to God and hisEquality to God. You have chosen only the partial and not the whole biblical record and chose only the one verse to build a belief on. You are guilty of private interpretation
42cody1 1 year ago
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@MB3Productions you say that yo are interested in God's word yet you adhere to only the inferiority of Christ when the biblical record states that he was also EQUAL. I have considered both verses but you have considered only one so go sell this lie to someone else. No offense meant just being truthful. I actually agreed with everything you said in your 2nd posts as all Trinitarians would do, what you fail o consider is that Jesus is called creator in scripture. Heb 1:10-12
42cody1 1 year ago
Guys my college studies will be starting up this week will be off for a while due to this plus work and ministry issues. You guys please quit posting silly things like the words deity of chist are not found in the bible- that is so silly, Jesus is God, John 20:28, Matt 1:23, John 5:18, John 5:23, John 8:58, John 10:14, 10:30, Rev 1:17. Its not that hard people- be good to Johnankerberg ministries they are trying to help you. LOVE IN CHRIST.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Quit posting "Silly things"? Some of us choose not to use or subscribe to "religious" terms that are not Biblical. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus is not God. Jesus sits at the right hand of the father, not of himself or a third of himself. Jesus said the father is greater than the son (John 14:28). Jesus said he did not his own will, but that of the father. God said "This is my SON in whom I'm well pleased". Satan would have NEVER tried to tempt God himself, in any form. Duh.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Your statement that Jesus is Not God but the Son of God would be equivalent to saying that Jesus is Not Man but is instead the Son of Man. Cant you see that would be unlogical? Jesus is both Son of Man= Man, Human, Jesus is the Son of God= that he is God. John 14:28 lol, here we go again man I answered that already. Circular, OK - when Jesus came to the Earth from heaven John 6:38 he came in the form of a servant- hence a human thus in this state said the Father is Greater.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Christ said the father is greater than the son (John 14:28), so that's where I put God. Just above Christ. When someone sits at right hand of another, who is greater? Between a father and son, in the time of Yeshua, who was considered greater? It's plain and simple. Christ even said it plain and simple. Christ was tempted, God cannot be tempted. It's simple. Anyone reading our posts sees your complicated explanations and editorializing as opposed to me quoting the word. simple
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Not hardly just giving an over view of old testament and new testament to shed light on the full Identity of Christ. You are missing the point of right hand of power, that was considered a blasphemous statement by those who heard it. Matthew 26:64, 65 Why was it considered blasphemous? Because it insulted the unique a dignity of God right at his throne. So Right Hand of power means differently then what you are thinking. Christ was Equal to God. John 5:18
42cody1 1 year ago
It's so odd. In many "Christian" book stores the "Cult" section is larger than the reference section. The term "Cult" by today's "Christian" definition is anyone who does not subscribe to the Trinitarian Doctrine. Yet it wasn't taught or defined in the scriptures, but by Romans in the 4th century. Actually, Paul & the Apostles and all the early Christians and their beliefs that Christ was the messiah and that he had risen from the dead were considered a cult. Ironic, isn't it?
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions you mean the orthodox doctrine, that was settled in scriptures long before the early fourth century. Now all gosples call Christ Son of God hmmm? I wonder what that means? You even have the definition of it in John 5:18. that is to help you out.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 If God isn't going to use language correctly, then it renders it useless as a form of communication. Son of God means that God is his father. I'm the son of Joe. Joe is my father. Simple. But once again, religion seeks to complicate things. When one needs to continually editorialize to substantiate their beliefs or to reconcile them in scriptures, it's quite telling. I believe what the word actually says, as opposed to what I either want it to say or have been told it says.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Well Son of Joe, what type of being is your earthly father? a human I would hope, so what would the Son of Joe be? a dog? a cat ? an ape? lol, of course not you would have the sameness of Nature and Equality of Being as Joe, thus a human. So what Nature would the Son of God have? Since the Fathers Nature is eternal and uncreated? what Nature would his Son have? Lets be logical here.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 By Adam, a man, sin entered into the world. Then by logic, by Christ (the last Adam I Cor. 15:45), man could be redeemed. 1 Timothy 2:5 says: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". Christ was born of an earthly mother, so he was human. His father was God, so that he could have untainted (sinless) blood. Yet he had the ability to sin, although he never did. That's why he could be tempted (Hebrews 4:15), but God cannot (James 1:13).
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions What I find unique about the first Adam was that he wanted to obtain to be as God knowing both good and evil- he wanted to exalt himself. The 2nd Adam did the opposite, he humbly chose to leave the heavenly estate and take the form of a servant. John 6:38. This was a choice he made "BEFORE" coming to the Earth Phil 2:5-12 and if that wasnt enough he also become obdeient even to death for our sakes. The 2nd Adam was God humbly choosing to become man,whereas the 1st Adam 2 b as God
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 if Christ had to make a humble decision to take a servants form the what was he before he took a servants form seeing how all created beings are servants? To be logical and honest there is only One Being that is Not a servant by Nature. So whatever form he was in prior to coming to Earth from Heaven it couldnt be of created origin by logic. The whole point Paul is making in Phil 2:5-12 is that Christ left his Greater position and took a servants Nature because he wasnt a servant.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 You mention Phi 2:5-12. When is says "equal with God', the Greek word for equal is einai, which means: to be, to exist, to happen, to be present. God was in Christ (like Christ is in me) reconciling the world to himself. Jesus was here on God's authority, doing God's will. John 5:30: "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." Jesus sought NOT his own will, but Gods
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Well whatever the Greek word means has to flow with the context, The context shows that Christ who being in very Nature God had to take the form of a Servant. This decision was made by him in Heaven ; this also means that while he was in heaven he wasnt a servant. Humans are servants, Angels are servants, anything created is a servant. Christ prior to coming to the Earth was Not a servant. So who could he be then logically? Only God. Thats simple reasoning.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 You explain using non Biblical terms like "Christ who being in the very Nature God...". You claim what Christ's decisions were without quoting scripture and when you do, it's out of context and padded with your own editorial opinion. I am only concerned with what God's word ACTUALLY SAYS, not what you say it means. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." So either there is no interpretation, or the word interprets itself
MB3Productions 1 year ago
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@MB3Productions John 5:18 says that the Jews wanted to kill Christ for claiming to be God's Son because he was saying "God was his Father thus making himself EQUAL with God. So the Greek term for EQUAL is ( ison) it means to claim for one's self the NATURE, AUTHORITY, AND RANK which belong to GOD. Joseph H Thayer Greek English Lexicon pg 307, So take it from a non trinitarian scholar such as Thayer. I guess he is ediotorializing to. Everyone can see on here who is the Biased one. Good day sir.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Continued..This is why John the Baptist stated " There comes one after me whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose. Why? John gives us this answer "because he was Before me" John 1:15. Now this is the person John prepared the way for which just so happened to Yahweh God. Isaiah 40:3. This is consistent with scripture Yahweh was to send Yahweh to dwell among men. Zacheriah 2:10-12 and the Word was God, John 1:1 and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 coming out of the way, i see my fam has the same prob. They can only mention Christs human side and not his deity, this is what the classes force upon you, human human human x100 for 3 straight hours brainwash. I dont know if you went there or not but thats what happens cant ask questions or anything just a videotape of someone telling u what they believe is true and never touch his deity so the way always starts Jesus out in the gospels and a few prophecies of him in the o.t.
chucky55122 6 months ago 3
@MB3Productions Yes I agree with you on most of what you said, but what you are only seeing is the humanity of Christ which started when he was conceived in Mary. This view that you take is found wanting when it cant explain how Christ came down from heaven John 6:38, or how he as the Lord laid the foundation of the Earth and the heavens being his handy work. Hebrews 1:10-12 or how he Raised himself from death. John 2:19-22. There had to be more to Jesus than just his HUMANITY.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions In looking at you statement once again I noticed that the only significance you state for God being Jesus Father was only to give him sinless blood, wow so it was just the blood that was between theFather and Son, You are now editorializing? Christ Nature as Son of God included sinless blood but much more. That nature entitled him to receive worship Hebrews 1:6, be called Creator Col 1:15-17, Hebrews 1:10-12 and to be called God. John1:1, 20:28, Rev 1:17, John 10:30.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 You are incorrect in regards to what was considered "orthodox" doctrine. It differed depending on where one was. The Romans, who's own religion (mythology) had a trinity and their gods come in the flesh did indeed adopt what later became the Trinity early. However, those in the east did not. Especially those who had converted from Judaism. For they knew it was impossible for God himself to be the Christ. For it was a man, Adam, that sinned so a man (Jesus) had to be the messiah.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I guess that since the pagans prayed, and believed in a guy named Tammuz means that Christian prayer and the resurection of Christ is pagan as well. The Christian Triune God is monotheistic and different from the Roman polytheistic structures. Didnt you know the 1st century church was persecuted for invoking, adoring, and worshipping Jesus christ as Yahweh God. Acts 9:14, Romans 10:9-13. This is why Saul/Paul initially persecuted the church?
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Tammuz was a guy the pagans believed rose from dead. I would be wrong to say that this was why Christians believed in the resurrection. The Apostles gave the account of what the early christians believed and why. The four gospels define the identity of Christ. All call him ultimately the Son of God. The Son of God by way of Nature was God. Uncreated.
42cody1 1 year ago
@carolinezim It is a great book, but I really think Weirwille made a huge mistake calling it that. I don't believe that was divinely inspired. It should have been called, "Who is Jesus Christ?" But what's done is done. I was never a member of the Way International. I was searching for truth and someone took me to a class & I signed up. It blessed my life & I continue to seek the truth and grow in God's word. I lost that book & cannot find another now. Do you know where to get one?
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I lost mine too, and gladly so seeing how he confused Modalsim with Trinitarianism many times and never put togther a correct definition for the term son of God=DEITY. Lol. He tried to discredit a few verses that called Jesus God by comparing them against the term Son of God never taking in the fact that they were never in disagreement in the first place. His Doctorate wasnt even accredited by real accrediation.
42cody1 1 year ago
I still don't buy the fairytale of trinity, just like I know we don't die and go to heaven.
I would be interested to find some Xwayers to do some word study's again. especially if your in the Joplin, Missouri area. by the way, no pun intended, 42cody1, it isn't yahweh, it's Yeshua, ask a Jew, hehehe
captaintim38 1 year ago
@captaintim38 hey I can appreciate a little sarcasm as long as its constructive. It is obvious your point is to come here and try to discredit the site for speaking against you ministry or a ministry that you are still partial to. I simply meant that Yeshua means yahweh saves. Does it not, we already know when Christ used the " I am" statement it showed that he was preexistent and self sufficient as it did in Exodus 3:14. I left the WAY ministry as well. I AM= no doubt being God EX 3:14.
42cody1 1 year ago
@captaintim38 If you noticed I said it was just a thought - if Yeshua means "Yahweh SAVES" as it does then Christ knew the meaning of the name and said "I AM" which also happens to be a name of God showing that he is the eternal being- notice the all went backward and fell to the ground. It is so implied in the context. Anyways XWAYERS are the last people I would go to find truth especially when they never come out to study With the REAL SCHOLARS.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 ; it's ok, you want to believe in trinity, go ahead, I'm not stopping you. I just don't buy it, to many contridictions for it to be the truth. I can site you 54 times the Messiah is called the "son of God", never once god the son. was Yeshua tempted? i think so, but it says God cannot be tempted. If you are correct then just go to a catholic church were mary is the mother of god, how stupid is that. Just a thought for all you real scholars out there. Cheers, The Captain
captaintim38 1 year ago
@captaintim38 what is funny captian is the exact opposite is true withyour statement on contradictions. The contradiction come only and I say only because ppl dont consider the full view of scripture- whether through being biased ect. The early church had to deal with the fact the were applying True worship to Christ. They knew Christ accepted it and said he himself would raise his body from death and that was the only sign to the Jews of his identity and yet you reject it as they do.
42cody1 1 year ago
@captaintim38 do you remember as I do reading Wierwille's book Jesus Christ is not God? How that he brought out 4 to 5 verses that claimed Christ as God and used the excuse ofthe term son of God being used like 100 or so times to disprove the deity of Jesus, saying you have to take the unclear verses and fit them with those that are clear- such as the 100 or so verse that claim he is Son of God as opposed to God? They only contradict if the term S of G is given a improper definition.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 I would say that jc is not God was wierwille's only book he didn't plagerize from someone else, BUT there was a lot more than 4 or 5 things and it does make sense. I ask you, could Yeshua have said no to the cross? I think so, as he prayed, to the ONE true God to let the "cup" or experience pass from him. But there was no other way, blood is required for forgiveness of sin. I often ask my jewish friends how they get forgiveness, there is no answer because they also know it requires blod
captaintim38 1 year ago
@captaintim38 wow, your point is what that blod was required for forgiveness of sin-I agree. So we agree he Plagiarized. progress yes! the 4 or 5 things is what he used s an excuse against the Trinitarians which was rediculous. The 4 or 5 things he used was to discredit those verses that call christ God as unclear, when they were never unclear or in disagreement with Christ as Son of God. He built a straw man around this whole concept.
42cody1 1 year ago
@captaintim38 yesChrist prayed to the one true God let this cup pass from me yet not my will but yours be done. Now John 6:38 says that Christ came down from HEAVEN. Not to do his will but the will of the one who sent him. So Christ came down from heaven- isnt that neat and i wonder what he was in Heaven?? Hmm? So he preexisted wow? hmmm? what could he be? a man, nooo? hmm? but as a man he said take this cup from me hmm? could it be possible he had two natures? Wow, that could be it!
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 recap he didnt say a 100 or so saying Christ was son of God, my mistake but like 50 or so. same point made though.
42cody1 1 year ago
@captaintim38 so my point is these contradictions as you speak of are not contradictions but rather us as ppl not fully understanding what certain terms mean and how they are applied in their proper context. So you say to many contradcition when it was the churches whole avoid contradiction thus that is how the Doctrine of the Trinity came about as to fit all th pieces together in harmonous unity within monotheism this way the deity verses fit along with those that show subjection. In love
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Ever heard of a religion know as "mystery babylon religion"? there is a book about it with that title ( a little pricey) but these 3 in 1 gods are not new. most all pagan religions have a 3in 1 god. this is how you get mother/child worship and all these others pagan belief's. I want to see you write that Mary is the mother of god. can you do that? no, far flung theological BS, just simple logic, if your jesus is god, then Mary is the mother of god, simple. this is where trinity fails.
captaintim38 1 year ago
@captaintim38 wow you guys are circular not meaning just you. The 3 in one were actually deities that headed up a patheon of other Deities, far different from the Trinity of what is found in scripture. Wow mary is the mother of God? hmm I wonder where a statement like that might Come from, Behold a virgin shall conceive and they shall call his name Emanuel meaning with us is the God = ho theos. Matthew 1:23
42cody1 1 year ago
@captaintim38 so do you rememeber who the voice of te one crying in th wilderness was? John the Baptist, Who did John the Baptist prepare the Way for in Isaiah 40:3 Jehovah our Elohim. Who then showed up after John the Batist prepared the Way in John 1, Jesus of course. Its not really rocket science ppl Jesus is Jehovah our Elohim our God. The First and Last, Rev 1:17, a title for only Jehovah by the way. For Jehovah is our Shepard Psalms 23 and in Jesus ownwods I am the GOOD SHEAPARD!! Amen!
42cody1 1 year ago
@carolinezim I'm trying to respond to you but i keep messing up. I will work on my spelling lol, Plagiarize, I think that is right thank for pointing it out. I want to say what I put on here isn't to hurt anyone but in hopes of restoring peoples lives to the truth of God's word. I was once in the Way International myself but through God's grace and true teachers such as Walter Martin and John Ankerberg I have been able to find truth and Jesus the right Jesus has restored my life. In love.
42cody1 1 year ago
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42cody1 1 year ago
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42cody1 1 year ago
guys there is a website with the sole purpose of explaining why the beliefs of the Way International is wrong not only from a historical perspective but also from a biblical perspective, It is the most comprehensive sight dedicated to refuting The Way International on every aspect of historical and theological error perpetuated by the heretical group, and by a True DOCTOR! It is called "ABOUT THE WAY INTERNATIONAL" just do a search with this name and it will show up. godbless the TRUTH!
42cody1 1 year ago
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Jesus Christ in NOT God.
DizziNY 1 year ago
The bible does indeed teach the deity of christ. It calls him "The First and Last" it calls him "creator", it calls him Shepard, It calls him God. If Christ wasn't God he wouldnt be called First=equals the eternal one. For only God was First. YAHWEH is my Shepard, Christ claims to be that ONE shepard in John 10. Jesus when claiming to mankinds shepard was a claim to Deity for only Yahweh is mankinds shepard.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 explain how Hebrews says Jesus was tempted in all points as we, but James says God cannot be tempted. Oh, and try to explain it out of God's word. Don't "editorialize". Also, explain how God said "this is my son in whom I'm well pleased". Was Jesus talking to himself? Finally explain how Christ is "equal" to God, yet Christ HIMSELF says in John 14:28 "...for the father is greater than the son". There's many more, but let's start with those, shall we?
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions You made several points it seems - let me address figures of speech first please. The term Son of God being a figure of Speech, as we know that figures of speech show as Weirwille puts it- it shows what God wants to really point out. The term Son of God carries with it a definition that is better suited to mean God the Son. It means that Jesus is the exact same nature as The Father and exactly the same quality of being. So when Jesus was called Son of God it meant Deity.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 "Son of God" isn't a figure of speech. It's literal. Jesus is the son of God. Not figuratively, but literally. His only begotten son (John 3:16). "God the son" isn't to be found ANYWHERE in the Bible. It would have been simple enough to add it at least once. Your definition isn't substantiated in the word of God. It's basically just editorializing. Anyone can do that about anything. The word says Christ is the son of God. It NEVER says God the son.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I agree that he is literally the Son of God, I when looking at E W Bullinger's figures of speech in the bible, he covers the term Son of God, It is understood among the ancient semetic languages that the term carries with it a meaning showing sameness of Nature and equality of being, I'm only telling you what the scholars are saying. Logically speaking a son has the same nature as his father, what is the fathers nature? can you find the same for the son in scripture? yes
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions John 14:28 notice Jesus says in John 6:38 "for I (Jesus) came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me". So where was Jesus before becoming a human on Earth? Heaven of course. So what is he, just a man? Angel? God? he couldn't just be a man if he was preexistent. So now are choices are Angel or God, Jesus was a man no doubt, but he had to be more than just a man as well. Hebrews 1:13 declares hes not an ANGEL. So prior to coming here waht is he?
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Christ was pre-existent in God's foreknowledge, hence God mentioning Christ to Satan in the garden of Eden (Genesis 3:15). When Christ was actually born, those words (logos) God spoke concerning him "became flesh). The Bible says Jesus was a man. It refers to him as "the son of man" because his earthly mother (Mary) and "the son of God" because of his father, God. Pretty simple. Religion seeks to complicate it. No doubt the adversary at work.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Hey, I refer you to the Journal of Biblical Literature concering the artcile written by Dr. Phillip B Harner concering John 1:1 Vol 92 , in this he gives a wonderful breakdown of the John 1:1 passage. I believe it is 1976, its been awhile just please take a look at it. It is a very systematic teaching over the passage. You can find it over the internet, It is I believe called qualatative anartharous predicate nouns, lol, I am sure I misspelt some of that.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Journal of Biblical Literature Vol 92, either 74 or 1976
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions If Jesus was only a man he could not have come down from heaven John 6:38, or resurrected himself John 2:19-22. Didn't you read my posts I don't put these down here for you not to read your responses nto me are redundant and they show that I waste my time showing you things because you are not reading them. i'm working with you real hard here out of Love- you could at least read my posts.I covered all this already and it just bounces off your head. pls read them.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 If you want to embrace the Trinity doctrine, then join the crowd. I choose to believe God. He said Jesus is his son in whom he's well pleased. The Bible specifically says Christ is the son of God. The Bible doesn't use the religious terms, "Trinity", "God the son", or "Deity of Christ". It DOES say Christ sits at the right hand of his father. It DOES say Christ did NOT his own will, but the father's. It DOES say Christ was tempted and God cannot be. That's good enough for me.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions What I notice among unbelievers is that they usaully embrace the humanity of Christ and magnify it all the while rejecting the verses that show so much more and when logically explained they still hold to only half the view. The Trinitarian Doctrine which is the orthodox Christian view why? because it seeks to find the answers so that all of scripture fits like a complete puzzle so that there is not pieces left out. See your view still can answer how Jesus rose himself from death
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Micah 5:2 once again sir- shows Jesus as existing from from eternity and through his goings forth. Phil 2:5-12 shows that Jesus made a humble decision to come to Earth from Heaven. Hebrews 1:2 shows Jesus as taking an active role in creation, John 1;1 says Jesus was before the beginning and existing in a loving intiment relationship with the Father for all eternity. The word was "WITH=PROS" and the word was Theos=God. With=pros- shows disticntion in loving intimacy.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions wow if he was preexistent in Gods foreknowledge the how did the Father say to Christ "You Lord laid the foundations of the Earth and the Heavnes are the Works of your hands?? Hebrews 1:10-12 hmmm? or how could he make a humble decision to look on our affairs and take on the form of a servant for oursakes and become obedient to death?? hmm this was done in heaven by the way Phil 2:5-12?? Or how could his goings forth be from ancient days from the days of eternity?Micah 5:2 hmmmm?
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Now if Jesus was the Son of God which a functional term that denotes equality of Nature and eqaulity of Being then he would have the same UNCREATED NATURE. Now God knew in his foreknowledge that Christ would come forsure, no doubt foreknowledge is used in this context and it is ok to do so it was foreordained that God would be sent to save mankind. Zaceriah 2:10-12. It was simply Gods foreordained plan to come to earth as a man hence he could say "let us make man in our image"
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 I received over 19 emails of your posts to me. You have to jump through so many hoops to editorialize and sell theTrinitarian doctrine. Yet you deny all the contradictions it creates! You simply continue to editorialize to explain it away, but cannot use the actual words in scripture because in reality, they do not say there is a "Trinity". That's paganism that crept into the early church. I'll stick with what the word actually says. I have a clear conscience and peace.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@42cody1 I believe in the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Noah, Moses, David, Solomon and the prophets. I believe in the God and father of my risen Lord and savior, Yeshua (Christ Jesus). I believe Christ is the son of God, the messiah, the savior of the world, King of kings, Lord of lords who was crucified, hung on a tree, and rose after 3 days and now sits at the right hand of God. You do not deny any of this, do you? And all of this is in the Bible. But the Trinity is not.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I believe all those things as well, and nicely put sir, are you meaning the word Trinity isn't found in the bible or the concept of Trinity isnt found in the bible, I would agree the word isnt found in the bible, namely because it is a Latin word. Sorry for so many posts Ill try to keep it shorter. Rather than editorializing as the term you use I was merely trying to take you thru the old and new testament. I have systematcially set forth what is in scripture is all.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I made the comment earlier that we can find God through his attributes, namely God is all knowing, everywhere present, all powerful ect, Then if Scriptures show the same for Jesus Christ then you have two choices either to reject the truth of scripture or change to believe scripture. Now scriptures show that Christ has all these attributes and God doesnt share the glory of his attributes with anyone does he? but we have Christ sharing in those and more.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions If you guys would quit attacking the Christian faith then i will then quit refuting you. In love
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Nobody is attacking the Christian faith. We simply hold the 1st century Church to be more accurate according to God's word than the Christian religion that grew from the Roman Empire. Christ was not from Europe and the Bible wasn't written in European language(s). Many pagan beliefs crept into Christianity. Did you know the coloring of eggs on Easter was originally eggs painted with the blood of 3 month old babies sacrificed who were conceived in ritual orgies the year before?
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions wow really maybe that is why those eggs stink so bad thanks for the egg info, i prefer mine scrambled. So easter eggs makes Jesus not God now wow. thats a big leap dude.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Did you know Christmas (December 25th) was originally a pagan holiday of the Winter Solstice and Christmas trees were originally pagan phallic symbols decorated like the one's Gideon in the Old testament was instructed to cut down? Roman mythology (religion) also was blended with Christianity to make conversion simpler. John addressed in III John the question of who Christ was because some already had started to believe he was actually God. But then, they thought that of Paul.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions wow you mean to tell me that dec 25isnt the real bday of Jesus wow. Did you know if you rearrange the letters to Santa- you get the word Satan lol. Man thank you for the insight lol, Im sorry dude but your point is what- since some misplaced some worship towards Paul and the Popes therefore this doesnt make Jesus worship real? whats your point man. yea we have some bad apples in the bunch over the years - ok ty for the point.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions .... So what kind of being is Jesus if he came down from Heaven? hes not an angel, couldnt be a man at this point. The only logical choice is he was God. This is Consistent with scripture Zacheriah 2:10-12 declares God sent God to dwell among men. Zacheriah 12:10 declares God is to be pierced. Who got pierced when they hung on the cross? Jesus of course. John the Baptist preceeded Jesus. Who did John claim himself to be? The Voice of the one crying in the wilderness. Matt 3:1-3
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 FACT: the term "deity of Christ" does not exist in the Bible. FACT: the term "God the son" is NEVER once used in the Bible. FACT: The phrase "Jesus is God" in NEVER EVER used in the entire Bible. FACT: The word "Trinity" in NEVER once used in the Bible. Christ prayed that we would be one with God, as HE was. So, am I God too? 3 words for you: Figure of speech.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions The term Son of God, if you have E.W. Bullinger' s book- "this is the figures of seech book used by the Way Int''. E.W. Defines as Jesus being God by this statement. Trinitrians know that this term is to show the absolute equality of Jesus to that of the Father. The jews as well knew this and this is exactly why he was crucified for claiming he was equal to the Father. John 5:18. The Trinitarians show that Christ was both a man and God at the same time.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 You say Trinitarians (the word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible, by the way) know Jesus is equal to God, yet Christ himself declares in John 14:28 "....the father is greater than the son". Hmm, let me see...do I go with the Trinitarians or Christ? Uh...I'll go with Christ, thank you. :-)
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions ok well, your view is your perrogative, I can only attempt to show you and it is your choice, I respect that. I addressed that verse in depth and carefully and systematically with you. Idon't really know as to what else I can do but pray for your eyes of understanding to be opened.That I will do for sure.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Well please go with Christ by all means - The Alpha and the Omega - The First and the Last, the GREAT SHEPARD OF OUR SOULS, The creator, John1;3, Hebrews 1:10-12, Col 1:15-17. Note these are titles for ONLY GOD!!!!!!!!!
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I really already addressed the points where Christ is called God in scripture, so your attempting to have it shown in specific word for word analogies that suit the way you are wanting to have it heard. God the Son is derived from scripture calling Jesus God, Son of God, and other titles. Jesus is eternal, Micah 5:2, John 1:1. So the exact term may not be used in the way you want to see it but nonetheless it is a concept that is derived from scripture.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Christ to my knowledge is speaking about unity of the believers, it is not in the context of deity, context is always important to get a full understanding of what is meant. Christ in the Context of Deity said I and the Father are one, this is something that the believer couldn't do due to the context of John 10, Where Christ identified himself as the ONE good shepard for all mankind. This would be the term that implies Deity at this point sir. Then he says I am one.....
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions ... continued, John 10 shows Christ in the context of Deity claiming to be the One good Shepard. Ps 23 of course identifies this as Yahweh. Christ pullling from his knowledge of the old testament declares a title that belongs to God alone when in reference to Man's shepard and applies to himself which would have been blasphemous unless true. Then the climax of what he means by this happens when he states I and the Father are One. They picked up stones to stone him.....
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Christ in the context of deity also calimed that he was eternal. In John 8:58 he said before Abraham was I AM, This contrast the created origin of Abraham to the uncreated Nature of Jesus. Then they once again pikced up stones to stone him why? because they knew that only God was eternal. He claimed deity by this. Matthew 1:23 behold a virgin shall conceive his name shall be Emanuel = THE GOD. Ho Theos.applied to Jesus, Ho Theos is also applied to Jesus Hebrews 1:8.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So these are reasons why Trinitarians use the term Deity of Christ, God the Son, Jesus is God, Trinity, God wants his believers to be One in unity, like minded, with no divisoins or conflicts just as The Father and Son are one in unity, without conflict and working together. It wasn't an invitation to join the Godhead. The terms are used to explain in a easy way to show concepts that are in fact derived from scripture. Father is God, Jesus is God, Holy Spirit Acts 5:3-4.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 I'm aware the Trinitarians use all kinds of terms not to be found in God's word, and therein lay the problem. I'm to study to show myself approved unto God (II Timothy 2:15), so I refrain from using man's religious terms. I prefer to use the terms God uses. So I never refer to Christ as God the son, because God never referred to Christ this way. Nobody in the Bible did. Not the Apostles, not Satan, not the Romans...nobody. So there you have it.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions well, lets see what God says about a term called Emauel= meaning with us is "the God". ho theos. this is in reference to Matthew 1:23, where Jesus is being born and named. Did the Father "Yahweh" continue to support this terms meaning, we have have him pointing it out in Hebrews 1:8 applied the meaning of "The God" to CHRIST once again, and then foes on to say to Jesus "and you LORD, LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THEEARTH AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORK OF YOUR HANDS.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Contd, forgivemy many post but you bring several issues. So the term Son of God to you means that Jesus was not preexistent but was created. Then why does John apply terms of Deity to Jesus also - terms that are only for God, no created creature could have such terms applied to him without it being Blaspehmy and note logically this is what the Jews considered when Jesus said he was Son of God, they killed him for it. Why because he made himself EQUAL TO GOD. John 5:18, John 5:23.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So the word Trinity comes from the Latin word Trias, meaning in one. First used around 170 ad to explain the Christain God to the pagans who were used to polytheistic structures- to say NOOOOO! A MONOTHEISTIC GOD ALONE, NOT 3. Scripture atest that there is One God, he is called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit , God is monotheistic but yet defined as 3 persons. The Father is etenernal, The Son is eternal, John 8:58, Micah 5:2, and the Holy Spirit is called eternal. TRINITY.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Trias meaning three in one, or 3 in the unity of one, it was a latin word used in 170 AD to help the church explain the Nature of the Godhead. Trias is where the Word Trinity came from, notice the time line???? 170 AD. Nicea was 325 AD. The church was already teaching it. anyways just a thought.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Before John was dead, pagans were already referring to Christ as God or "a god". Hence III John addressing this by stating clearly Christ was God's son so many times (never God the son). They did this to Paul & the Apostles as well when they performed miracles (or rather, God through them). The Romans had their "trinity", and in their mythology (religion), their gods came into the flesh. So the Trinity has pagan origins, not Biblical.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Just a thought, why was the church being persecuted in the first place? Notice when Saul was persecuting the church, there was a certain disciple name ananias, acts 9 I believe, there he converses with the Lord and said Lord this guy Saul is persecuting all that "CALL UPON YOUR NAME" who was this? Jesus of course this term "Call upon the name of the Lord" means to invoke, adore, and worship the Lord, that is Jesus Christ. This is why the church was being persecuted.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Actaully the opposite is true, I could also say well the pagans had a guy named tummaz that supposedly was resurrected from death therefore Jesus being resurrected comes from pagan origins, that bis not any proof at all. The Trinity is nothing like anything found in the pagan structures, you could find pagans having a belief in 1 God, 2 Gods, 3 Gods ect so we you could also say hey the monothesitic jewish belief in yahweh is of pagan origin. this is a decpetive tactic they use.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Contd. the pagan structures were polytheistic in nature usually, so they might have 3 main gods that headed up a patheon of many deities. The doctrine of the Trinity -which is supported by scripture is the belief in a monotheistic God - nothing like the pagan structures. I refer you to look at the kingdom of the cults book over the word showing composite unity. In hebrew language they understood that there could be composite unity. Walter Martin pg 90. I wished we had more room.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Contd. What I notice is you mentioning that they about Paul and the apostles being referred to as a god thru performing miracles, the difference between Paul and the apostles is that they corrected this misconception totally. FACT Jesus never corrected worship applied to himself as the apostles did. He accepted it everytime. In fact the Father calls the Son creator and commands that all the angels worship Christ. Hebrews 1:6, 1:10-12. The Father also calls him God Hebrews 1:8
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Contd it wouldnt do good to say that it means something less, because its in the context of deity as the context of Hebrews shows. The Father wasn't the Father until the Son was the Son, so it is a functional term, Christ is the Eternal word. Now Christ as Son of God literally is of the same substance and essence of the Father and is the only begotten God John 1:18. and since Christ is the Only begotten God who does this make him? YAHWEH.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So my point is it wasnt before the Apostle died that they started calling Christ God/god, it is the very initial reason as to why the church was being persecuted in the first place. They were "Calling Upon the Name of the Lord" that is Jesus Christ- meaning that they were persecuted for "INVOKING, ADORING, AND WORSHIPPING Christ as God. Can you name any scholar on par with Dr. Thayer that would say less for this term? Thayer's Greek English Lexicon pg 239.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So John referring to Jesus as "Son of God" you think he meant a created Son therefore Jesus isn't God. Scriptures shows differently it has this same John applying terms of absolute Deity to Jesus Christ by calling him "THE FIRST AND THE LAST" Which is the same thing as saying "The Alpha and Omega" This is either blasphemy or Jesus is worthy of this NAME because he is Almighy God Rev 1:8. In this passage the term is applied to the term ALMIGHTY. So this fits ''God the Son"
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions logic dictates that your definition for "Son of God" would not have been grounds for them to crucify him at all. So the term "Son of God" carries with it by proof of their response that Jesus claimed to be Equal to the Father. John's definition of Son of God is that he was equal-therefore John could apply Titles of Deity to Christ and this is exactly what the Trinitarians are saying and John agrees with them by his commentary in John 5:18.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So now we see John not agreeing with your definition of Son of God-especially since he called Jesus "The First and Last" which is God alone Isaiah 44:6,cross reference to Rev 1:17. If Jesus wasn't God how could he have resurrected himself? John 2:19-22. So this is why Trinitarians say God the Son, because it means Son of God.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions What did I show to you here?-, that the term "Son of God" as applied to Jesus by John doesn't agree with your definition, I showed that Jesus was Worshipped at the ORIGIN of the Church rather than several decades later. I showed you that the Trinity is different than pagan deity structures. I showed you that John applied terms of absolute Deity to Jesus Christ hence he doesn't agree with "Your" definition of Son of God. I have showed you that Jesus is called God by God.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So your only defense is to say I editoralizing - sir I only took you to scripture in a logical systematic way and had you read my posts previously you would have not approached the same arguements because they were all systematically answered with scripture. You either reject the scriptures or you didn't read my post very well. To say I editoralized is illogical. I took you to old testament and new. Being biased isn't a way to search for truth sir. In Christ
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Figure of Speech = Son of God, please remember to study what this figure of speech means. I have 3 words for " I love you" pls go study what this figure of speech means. ...... The Father was talking about his Son "this is my Son" ect When we say Jesus is God we mean that he is absolutely distinct from the Father we dont mean he is the Father. That was a heresy known as modalism in the eraly church. Also view of Oneness Pentecostals.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions continued... John the Baptist is called the voice of one crying in the wilderness. Isaiah prophesied this in Isaiah 40:3 The voice of the one crying in the wilderness =John the Baptist, now look at Isaiah 40:3 John the Baptist says " Prepare the way of the Lord = Yahweh God, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. John the Baptist prepared the Way for YAHWEH GOD in the desert. Hmmm the what happened hmmm? oh yea Jesus showed up. Jesus is Yahweh.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions ok now take a look at this. John the Baptist is to prepare the way for Yahweh God. Isaiah 40:3. Now notice in John 1:26 I baptize with water:but there standeth one among you whome ye know not; VS 27, he it is, who coming AFTER me HMM? some one is coming AFTER John the Baptist, I wonder who this could be Isaiah said he was preparing the WAY for Yahweh God, but lets see..VS 27 he it is, whom coming AFTER me is preferred Before me. Why is he preferred over John? hmmm? VS 27 CONT'D..
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So someone in John 1:26-31 is coming after John and this person is preferred over John why?? Now if the acount in Isaiah is true and it is then John is preparing the way for Yahweh God and Now in John 1:26-31 John is now talking about who this person is that he is preparing the way for.. Vs 27 contd.. his shoe latcheth I am unworthy to unloose? hmm? wow John can't even touch this guys feet in a worthy way? This guy who is coming must be real important. VS 30... CONTD...
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I wonder who this guy could be? VS 30... John sees Jesus coming to him and says " This is HE of whom I said, AFTER, me cometh a man which is preferred before because he was BEFORE me. Wow. This shows that this person is Before John I wonder who this is? Now God's word says Jesus said in John 6:38 "I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN " John now is saying this person is before him, Jesus says it as well. Isaiah says John prepared the way for Yahweh. Yahweh most definately was before John.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So now we have Isaiah saying John the Baptist prepared the way of God in the desert, Then John said this person who was to come AFTER him was BEFORE him hmm? Yes God was before John. Then we have Jesus claiming he existed in Heaven and came down JOHN 6:38, NOW WHO LIVES IN HEAVEN? Oh God lives in heaven hmm? could Isaiah be right? wow. Now you might say oh angels were too Hebrews 1:13 says Jesus isnt a angel so what is the choice here? Jesus has to be the God John was to go b4.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Now since Jesus existed as God in heaven as Phil 2:5-12 states then while in heaven he was most definitely in a GREATER position before he came to the Earth correct? So Jesus said that he came to fulfill his Father's will and that he left heaven for that purpose John 6:38 But Jesus has to be in GOD'S FORM in Heaven thus a Spirit being, plus God can't die as God something had to happen and it does Jesus made a humble decision to come to Earth as a man, in the form of a servant.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions Phil 2:5-12 who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God but made himself of no reputation "humble act" took the form of a SERVANT and was made in the likeness of men and became obedient to death. So Jesus had humanity added to his deity. He had the form of God, the also took the form of a servant. Form is morphe in the Greek means Nature, Christ maintained his deity and added humanity because as God he cant die, but as man he can.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So Christ had 2 NATURES 1 AS God and 1 as man, as Man he hungered, slept, ate, had limitations and DIED. This is that form of a SERVANT that Jesus took on and died as a man of the cross, but as God he said in John 2:19-22 Tear down this temple and in 3 days.. Note he said someone will RAISE it up? who does he say will raise his Temple =his Body in 3 days letS continue, he said " I JESUS" WILL RAISE IT UP! One nature died=human and one nature lived on = God. He had both
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions So as God he left heaven John 6:38, As God he was BEFORE John. John 1:30, As GOD he was before Abraham John 8:58, As God he claimed to be the good Shepard, As God he knew "all things" John 16:30 As God he RAISED "HIMSELF" from death, As GOD he came before John the Baptist Isaiah 40 :3 As God he was eternal micah 5:2, john 8:58, As man he Died, As man he was tempted in all points like as we were, As man he said the Father is Greater than I. John 14:28 Jesus is GOD AMEN.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions I hope I have answered your questions and with scripture. Have a good day and I love ya .
42cody1 1 year ago
The Romans and Greeks gods became "flesh" and could mate with humans, so they had "demigods". This trickled into Christianity even before the apostles had all died, hence I John reinstating Christ as the son of God. Jesus SAID he did NOT his OWN will, but that of the father. Jesus was tempted, God cannot be tempted. Jesus died, God cannot die. Jesus knowledge was limited, God's was not. Adam was a man, so the savior had to be. Jesus is called the 2nd Adam. God would hardly qualify.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions , well said. if Yeshua, his real name, was God. Then we are not redeemed. I worship only 1 God not 3, and I believe that Yeshua is the Messiah 2000 years ago and today. those that embrace trinity and dying and going to heaven commit the same sin as all pagans.
captaintim38 1 year ago
@captaintim38 The Bible does not now, or ever taught that Christ is God. He is God's son. That's not a bad place to be: second only to God. Yet God has exalted the name of Christ above all names and has place him at his right hand and on the judgment seat. I'm good with that.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions whoseame is above all names? Only Gods' you have a contradiction he is seconed only to GOD, AND THEN YOU SAY HIS NAME IS ABOVE ALL NAMES? JESUS NAME BEING ABOVE ALL= ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION THEREFORE GOD'S NAME IS INCLUDED. Since his name is above ALL names that makes him EQUAL to the Father, John 5:18 This is what John was meaning as Son of God he would have the same Nature of the Father and the Father's Nature is eternal, omnipresent, all powerfu, and uncrreated, so was CHRIST.
42cody1 1 year ago
@captaintim38 The Trinity isn't the belief in 3 gods but rather that all are called God in scripture, since there is 1 God then the 3 must be that one God collectively. One is not always singular but also can be composite. Shall a man leave his father and mother and shal be joined unto his wife and they shall be ONE flesh. This gives I and the Father are One new meaning, and it is in the context of Deity -Jesus said he was the ONE good shepard and never contradicted psalms 23.
42cody1 1 year ago
@captaintim38 YESHUA = YAHWEH OUR SAVIOR. I remember in John when they were coming to arrest Jesus Jesus said whom do you seek and they said Yeshua of Nazereth, Jesus said "I AM". Then they went backward and gell to the ground, when he said "I AM". Yeshua = YAHWEH OUR SAVOIR -They were looking for Yahweh our Savior and Jesus said "I AM" AND THE WENT BACKWARD AND FELL TO THE GROUND. Just a thought.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions The bible attributes worship to Christ and it has Christ accepting. Christ as God said before Abraham was, I am- thenthey picked up stones to stone him. Why because he claimed that he was from eternity. He compared the created origin of Abraham to that of his uncreated origin. Micah 5:2 his going forth are from the days of eternity. Man can be tempted Christ was both human and divine. Tear down this temple "his flesh" and in 3 days I I WILL RAISE IT UP. Two natures implied.
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions You know their is a functional hierarchy within the Marriage. The husband is in a GREATER position than the wife is he not? Greater has to do with positions of Authority not of Nature. The husband being the leader of the godly household is in control but his wife has the sameness of nature and equality of being. The husband is not better in NATURE than her he is greater in position only. Now within the Godhead......Jesus by way of NATURE IS GOD. The woman by nature is MAN.
42cody1 1 year ago
@carolinezim actually it was written by a man who stole and plagarized the works of other men and passed them off as his won which is dishonesty. he was a dishonest man. Proof he plagarized check out "about the way international" and then put the study in for yourself to find out the truth. There is a complete rebuttal against the book Jesus christ is not god and it silences this book effectively, I encourage you to look at it for yourself. why defend a book written by a man who plagarized.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Actually, that's not true. Wierwille gave E.W. Bullinger credit, and that's where he got most of his information. Have you ever attended the "Power for Abundant Living" class Weirwille taught? It hasn't been available for over 20 years. Just wondering.
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions yes I have actually, I am a graduate of the class, 1987, actually. Im not for sure as per your response about Ew bullinger, I do know that Wierwille plagarized J E Stiles and E W Bullinger, Stiles especially in his Receiving the holy Spirit Today, Fairly certain that he Plagiarized EW Bullinger as well. I will go recheck the Bullinger thing sure, if i made a mistake my apologies.
42cody1 1 year ago
Jesus Christ is God.
wellthatsnotenough 1 year ago
@wellthatsnotenough amen Jesus is God, why ? because he is CREATOR, SHEPARD, FIRST AND LAST, THE LIGHT, ALPHA AND OMEGA. RECEIVER OF WORSHIP. Amen the are all titles to God alone and to apply them to JESUS is either blasphemy or that he is indeed all the things and if all these things then he has to be GOD.
42cody1 1 year ago
@wellthatsnotenough Then please quote the chapter and verse where those words appear in that order please. I'll give you one where it could of, but doesn't for some "strange" reason, " 1 John 5:5 - "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" See? It says "Son of God". So according to the Bible, Jesus is the son of God. Do you refute that?
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions if you want to believe that according to The Way International
twisted teachings go for it...I once did too. But try reading John without ((WAYBRAIN))
wellthatsnotenough 1 year ago
@wellthatsnotenough I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the Way International, or any denomination for that matter. My point of reference is the Bible, rightly divided. What I believe or don't believe is based on God's word. There are things I agree with the Pope on, yet I am not a Catholic. There are things I believe Jews believe, but that does not make me Jewish. The common ground I have with anyone is to be found in the Bible. I never had "WAYBRAIN". I've always used my own mind
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions You need to do more research on Cults.((AND))
The Diety of Jesus. The Way International is twisted scripture.
wellthatsnotenough 1 year ago
@wellthatsnotenough I do not need to research The Way, Mormons, or Atheists, or Jehovah's Witness or Baptists. I have no interest in the Way International or any denomination for that matter. They divide the body of Christ. The term "Deity of Jesus" is to be found nowhere in scripture. If it is, please site the chapter and verse. Otherwise, I need not research that either. I research the word of God (the Bible) and that suffices. It does say that Jesus is the son of God. :-)
MB3Productions 1 year ago
@MB3Productions so what are ya? inquiring minds want to know, lol so you are just a personal man with no denomination for affiliation, just going about alone and with a bible I assume? I agree the term deity of Christ is not found in scripture wow what did that prove lol? the term deity of the Father isnt in there either ??what ur point? I think your point is -is that you want it to say it in a fasion that suits to your liking. Yes what does Son of God mean???? can you tell me?
42cody1 1 year ago
@MB3Productions you are making the same mistake as Weirwille at this point ad yes it says what you are saying, but what you fail to consider is what the term Son of God means. It means that the Son and the Father share the same Nature as all Sons do. So thus Jesus is eternal Micah 5:2, that he is God John 10, John 8:58, Matthew 1:23, that Jesus is creator Hebrews 1:10-12, Col 1:15-17, That he as God was sent by God Zacheriah 2:10-12 ect just a sample
42cody1 1 year ago
It is unfortunate that the majority of christians believe in the trinity...there is absolutely no scripture that supports such a ludacris doctrine...Mainstrream christianity has never even considered studying the validity of the three in-one godhead, for some reason it has alway just been acceped for the most part...Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God but not God...he is our total sufficiancy and our only transport to the kingdom of heaven...god bless...
drumbum4513 2 years ago
@drumb