The same kind of argument that you are making could easily by used by the other side to say that you are an hypocrite because you are against murder and then he could finish his argument by saying you are not pro-choice, you are just against babies.
Btw I'm pro-choice too. I'm just exposing the fallacy of your argument.
Too me, it's ok to kill fetuses before their brain reaches a certain state of development because they can't have a mind without it and therefore are human but not beings.
Also you made reference to logic, but committed a logical fallacy at least twice e.g. when claiming that pro-life pro-war people think it's okay for innocents to die in war. That is a huge jump. It may be just a necessary evil or acceptable.
Q2: The concept of Just War does exist. It's not because it's an utopia, and you'll get innoncents killed, that therefore you can justify an immoral act. Both should be condemed (and Just War kept as a hypothetic solution).
Q3: Life is a gift, not a due.
You say "to save the mother's life"... that is true. But, not doing anything would mean killing both of them, which is irrational. So of course we save the life of the mother in some circumstances.
I am not sure the exact passage but in the bible it says in one attack that God told people to rip the babies from the mothers womb i can look it up,but it is obvious God condones abortion
@johndebbra You obviosly have not read the whole bible because you have taken that out of context. God was speaking a prophecy against samaria. Exodus 21:22 If men strive to hurt a woman with child, so that her fruitdepart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. The Bible is anti-abortion all the way, so much so that it is evil to even spill your seed on the ground.
@johndebbra Hosea 13:16 - "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."
since your just a punk kid who probably works at 7 11 night shift and plays video games in your spare time in your moms basement with no girlfriend, consider this my last response. I wont read your anymore. Youre a loser like tiller hahahahah
What if I told you that you are a disgusting low life piece of shit who can rationalize deaths of innocent people regardless of the circumstances and come up with bull shit statistics that sew up the idea that an unborn babies life is as unimportant as one who is to be sentenced on death row or victimized by war pro life means protecting life of the innocent, others have themselves to blame for their own deaths
@semperfitillidie15 Bold talk from a dirty lowlife who places the value of human life so low. Your logic is as sad as your cowardly little message on my channel. Such ashame you weren't aborted.
Comparing accidental death in wars that stop aggressors from killing millions more innocent people than those innocents caught in the cross fire, or the death sentence, a fraction of its victims are innocent, versus termination of an embryo for convenience reasons, consequence to the mother and father's choice to procreate (surely they knew where babies come from and that birth control is not very effective?) ... Terrible analogy, not that I would not have non-partial birth abortions banned.
Load of bull. I'm anti-choice-to-slay-a-child-of-any-person-just-for-selfish-reasons (the reason the vast majority of abortions were performed by Planned Parenthood for...according to PP themselves). Since about 5% of abortions were claimed for health reasons, rape, or incest, and 15% of abortions (PP 2007ish if I recall) were partial birth abortions, which literally offer no health benefits, nor save the mother any freedoms vs. adopting the child out, I'll call myself ~96% anti-choice.
I know many pro lifers and absolutely none of them agree with committing violence in the name of the cause. They condemn it completely.
No matter how many thousands of terrorist attacks have been committed by muslims the last 30+ years, people fall over themselves making the point that we can't label all muslims as terrorists. These same people will take the rare violent act by an anti-abortion activist and have no problem using it to smear the pro-life movement as a whole.
actually the commandment thou shalt not kill DOES come with exceptions. if someone held a knife to your wife's throat and you had a gun? i love liberals.... you bash a book youve never read and dont believe, and then you try to hold other's to its standards. so which is it? bottom line tiller dead babies saved. Thanks and God bless you Scott!
@thejizzman99 I read your post, and that does not change the fact people like Scott Roeder are not praised in the afterlife, but punished instead. He was a murderer and responsible for crimes against humanity. He murdered a good man, and must answer to God for his wrongdoings.
@thejizzman99 That's just what I was thinking of you. Our nation is dedicated to stoping global terrorism and yet you support one here at home. There is something very wrong with that.
@Ultimaton100 George tiller was delivering babies heads and then smashing their skulls in and sucking out their brains. Scott Roeder sacrificed his freedom to prevent this monster from continuing to do so. God gave him the power and courage to throw his earthly life away. Scott is in God's favor and will be rewarded accordingly in Heaven. Tiller is in Hell. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the Bible, or in your case, probably not be familiar with it at all
@thejizzman99 I've taken numerous religious classes and I've been to church. I pray to God everyday. I know God does not reward murderers. George Tiller never killed one baby. He just performed abotions. Tiller was a hero for putting his life on the line to help people. God rewards the noble and good, like him. You clearly misunderstand right from wrong.
@Ultimaton100 I bet youve never studied the Bible or gone to church, apparently you play a lot of anime and fantasy type games as well. You are probably relying on what someone else or the world told you. Trust me on this one bro.
@thejizzman99 Scott Roeder on the other hand gave into his selfishness and hate. It is sacrelige to say God encouraged him to kill a good man. Roeder killed a good and noble man, a hero. He is no better than Al Qaeda. You may think he is in God's favor, and I guess you think the same about Osama bin Laden too. Tiller is in Heaven, where the righteous like him belong, and Roeder is doomed to Hell with his evil brethren. God rewards good, not evil.
@Ultimaton100 youre an idiot.. read your Bible. God is not "good" the way you think of it. Youre an ass clown and the fact remains tiller is dead, scott is alive and babies were saved! hahahahahahahahahaha
@thejizzman99 Said the foul-mouthed fool who places the value of human life so low. As a matter of fact, I work at a summer camp for underprivileged kids. I do my part to help people and society and earn God's favor in the afterlife, just like George Tiller did. I give back to the community and help people, while you praise terrorists. I think its pretty clear who the real loser is here.
I think you bring up good points. Let me answer your questions.
1. Yes, I am pro life.
2. I am against capital punishment.
3. I am against war. I think self-defense in war is unavoidable, having abortion is.
4. I am against abortion in ALL instances. Even if the mother's life is at risk.
Also, you should know that I am a flaming liberal one every other issue. I just view the fetus as a life and should have rights. Thank you though, I'm tired of so called "pro life" hypocrites.
@ccik09090909 1. Since when did I say I'm a pro-CHOICE? Sorry but I don't use superficial and emotional-laden labels to promote any campaign.
2. Have you heard of the words "freedom" and "rights"? The US gives her citizens freedom and individual rights, but does it mean American citizens are "free" to commit murders or have the "right" to commit murders? Should we call America a hypocrite because she doesn't allow people to commit murder? Think about it. :)
Something important to remember is that many of us have led deeply disturbing and sometimes quite bloody life’s, and in many cases this is as a result of us being born in to poverty or having a parent or parents, guardian or guardians, who suffer from a mental illness, and don't get me started on if it turns out to be hereditary.
1) Since when did innocent babies have any evidence against them to convict them of the death penalty? I'm against the death penalty anyway but it's a valid question to ask anyway.
2) Since when were babies able to fight back under circumstances of war? And what did babies do to deserve death brought to them?
3) Yeah, the guy was a hypocrite, So what? So are you.
You do realise that your position can be used to justify any murder? But hey, that's the hypocrite that you are.
Your arguments establish that it is okay to kill people in some circumstances. They do NOT establish that abortion is one of those circumstances. Surely, you don't think that since it's okay to kill some people in some circumstances that it's therefore okay to kill all people in every circumstance.
Don't let your good reasoning get in the way the fact tht pro-choicers will ignore this. They will ignore anything that can be used against them logic wise. Oh so people get killed in wars and on the death penalty, therefore it's ok to kill some innocents in some circumstances. I guess I can take a shotgun down to my local shop then and blow apart the innocent clerk behind it. :duh:
@DarthOvious Are you pro-life? If you answer yes then you're one of the biggest hypocrites on earth. Have you ever had a hamburger for lunch? Poor cow. His life was taken way because of consumers like you. Oh you may say you're a vegetarian, but consider this fact: plants are living things too. =D I see you guys will get mad but how about coming up with a new term for your campaign instead? 'Cause anything that can grow, response to stimuli, and reproduce has a "life".
@hoasenhong it would help if you understood that actual definition of pro-life which is the following: describes the moral, political and ethical opposition to elective abortion and support for its legal prohibition or restriction. Those involved in the pro-life movement generally maintain that the human fetus (and in most cases the human embryo) is a person and therefore has a right to life. so the cow doesn't count.
You claiming that pro-life people are inconsistent when they accept the inevitable death of innocent people is just as absurd as if I claimed that pro-choice people are inconsistent when they OPPOSE killing innocent in some situations. Do you think it is inconsistent for a pro-choice person to be okay with killing the innocent unborn, but not okay to kill the guilty born, whether in war or capital punishment? If anything, THAT is inconsistent--condoning innocent death & opposing guilty death.
3. I oppose abortion under every circumstance except to save the life of the mother.
Your assertion that it's inconsistent to be pro-life while condoning the death of some innocent people is absurd. To be pro-life means to be against abortion. It doesn't mean to be against all death. Abortions are not done on accident, they are not done in self-defense (except in rare cases), and they are not done in ignorance of the guilt or innocence of the unborn.
2. Yes, I do support war for reasons you gave--self-defense. It is okay to kill innocent people on accident in the interest of saving lives and self-defense. It is not okay to kill innocent people on purpose without the interest of saving lives and self-defense. So war is okay, even though it results in the death of innocent people, but abortion is not okay. Abortion to save the life of the mother is okay for the same reason war is okay--self-defence.
1. I would support capital punishment if I had more confidence in the justice system. There have been too many bad convictions for me to be comfortable with the death penalty. But I do think the distinction between guilt and innocence is relevant, and I hope you do, too. You make a really bad argument here--as if it's okay to kill somebody we KNOW to be innocent just because somebody might be okay with killing somebody we have a strong reason to believe is guilty.
In Exodus 20:13, Where the King James translates it, "Thou shalt not kill" the the word litterally means to "dash to pieces." This clearly means to "murder." It is further clarified in chapters 21 and 22 of Exodus, where accidental death is not punishable and murder is. The problem arises when humans try to make our own rules rather than trusting in God's word. Pro-life does not mean "no capital punishment", it simply values innocent life, and requires punishment of the guilty.
In war, we do not target specific innocent people to kill. It is sad that there is innocent loss of life, and if it is a result of neglegence, the soldiers are and should be punished. In the case of convicted criminals, if we would use the Biblical standard, those who provide the convicting testimony would be required to "pull the switch," thereby making them murderers if they gave false testimony. There is a distinction between "murder" and accidental death. How sad that you are so blind.
Embryos are not sentient beings and are incapable of thought, and cannot feel pain. They are not alive as embryos, and if they are, they are nothing more than other non-sentient beings that people kill without a thought. One could argue that an abortion steals the embryos chance to become a living thing, but surely you're robbing sperm and eggs of the chance to become a living thing when you use contraception? Proudly pro-choice. Great video.
@EpicNinjaGuy123 People in comas are sometimes also incapable of thought or pain. Is it okay to kill them? Embryos are, without question, alive. They grow, their cells reproduce, they have metabolism, and they react to stimuli. There is no sense in which they are not alive. And they are not like any other non-sentient being that people kill without thought. Roaches are roaches, and trees are trees, but embryos are human. Their parents are human, and their DNA is human.
This is a false dichotomy. You don't have to be against killing under any circumstances to be against unnecessary abortion. You can argue that in the situation where the mother's life is not in danger then the mother does not have the right to choose because choosing an abortion infringes on the right to life of the child. In the reverse situation where the mother's life IS in danger, then the child does not have the right to risk the life of the mother for its own survival.
no the problem here is the term "pro-life". Scott Roeder is against abortion but is not prolife because you cant be prolife and go around killing people.
no one is saying scott roeder doesnt deserve life in prision. except the "pro-life" people of course.
On the legal level however it gets a bit trickier. I think we need to tighten it from beyond a reasonable doubt to, beyond a conceivable doubt. I could explain it in more detail but Youtube does not allow much space for comments.
I am opposed to war especially strategies that involve the deaths of civilians. I have ideas for more non lethal methods.
Question 1: I oposse death penalty, that makes us no better that the killer. Especially if there's innocents in the way.
Question 2: War is sadly part of our nature. But if innocents are involved, the countries must take responsability. (I'm looking at you, Mr. I bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki and never answered for those crimes!)
Question 3: If the mother is in direct danger, then yes, if not, that would be senseless killing.
@TheGothicMaria Well, I am not telling them to kill there babies!!! That is so hypocritical! You heading over there with a knife and vacuum??? Hmmm.... Handing out food off your plate or just touting your garbage. You know what. You know what happens when your choose to have sex. Heaven forbid you would take responsibility for your actions. No, not you. You have a uterine invader. I am convinced you are not right in the head and I will no longer respond due to your illness.
@TheGothicMaria I can not rationalize with an irrational person. Your a parasite to the earth. You discount a baby by geographical location and then make assumption that I lack the care for others with knowing nothing about me and I will NEVER justifiy the murder of a child for the unfortunate sitation of others on this earth. I guess I can put a bullet in your head and say it okay..there are starving people in Africa. One less mouth to feed.. Come on! You really need to do better
@TheGothicMaria Every thing you speak is selfish. You justify murder by symantics and labels. What you preach is heartless and sounds like you given up your soul. I will pray for you. Your hate and tone are a obvious example of what happens to a post abortion woman who needs to justify themselves. Ladies...read up on GothicMaria and see if this is the type of person you want to become. If you need eternal life, I will be happy to show you the way..
@TheGothicMaria First, you have no points. Second, I volunteer through Carenet. Assisting mothers keep there babies, showing ultrasounds and heartbeats. Providing the needs of the child when born and work full time for a non for profit serving mothers and babies. I have counseled post abortion and address the loss those mothers experience. So....once again. You are wrong.
@TheGothicMaria my own selfish needs. I do not and will never put myself or my wallet before my own children. I have counseled hard heads like you in deep depression trying to convince themselves that the abortion is okay. "GothicMaria" are you hiding behind makeup and dark clothing? Harboring angst against your own family and perhaps your own abortion? You can pick up the knife and vaccuum without guilt or sense that what you are about to do is wrong? I guess there is still evil here.
@TheGothicMaria All this ranting our your part is your need to jusify yourself or actions. You can call a BABY a fetus all you want, but at the end of the day. No matter how your try to convince yourself otherwise. You having an abortion would be YOU taking the life away from your own child. The moment you justify killing children to save ones pocket book, you put money above life. You live by this sword, you shall die by it. I have not been fooled but have morals and ethics beyond..
@TheGothicMaria So how the hell would a BABY matter where it is located. SO you are saying YES, pull the plug on me when i am dependant on another person or thing to sustain life. I bet you would be singing a different tune if it was you. You know what, i beg to differ. You have a large moral obligation to the child you could be caring. Take responsiblity for your actions. You words sound very much like someone trying to justify there own action and living with guilt. You dont fool me!
@Flowtail A C-Section is ALWAYS the fastest way to save a mothers life and it happens to save a babies too!! An abortion is a "D & C" which stands for Dialations and Contraction. This can take over 24 hours while a c-sections is done in minutes. Pro Abotionist try to perpetuate this lie to justify actions. It simple is not true.
@Flowtail Yes, it is. C-Section is the fastest way to save a mothers life. Ask any OB...that is a fact. Birth can take days....abortion alot longer than 3 minutes.. Adoption is always a great alternative. Killing a child to save a buck is immoral and irrational and we will never be a civalized nation as long as we hold ourselves or our money as greater value than life itself. Im sure you as well as other can attest if it was your life about to be taken.
@MsMotleyone I didn't know that! Didn't mean for the tone to be sarcastic. Sorry :)
But you're not killing a child. They are not yet alive- like... taking out somebody's appendix and calling it unethical. Know what I mean? Besides, C-Sections don't always work do they? After all... it IS cutting somebody's body open, so there have to be risks, right?
@Flowtail Yes, you are killing a child...The heart starts beating at 6 weeks old and yes that baby can feel pain!! The baby is not a part, but a whole seperate being. And yes...C-sections ALWAYS work. I posted alot earlier what the abortion procedures are. It is disgusting and have more risk involved. Then you have not counted the lasting effects on the mother. I have counseled post abortion. Its not a simple as pro abortionist would like you to believe. I devote my time to the facts.
@MsMotleyone I hate to completely contradict you, but C-sections don't always work- although they do have a surprisingly high success rate!
Uh... could you rewrite the last part of your comment? Starting with: "I posted alot earlier..."? Sorry- I just couldn't wade through it, and I gotta go do Humanities, so... <:(
@Flowtail Perhaps the context of C-Sections always working is being misunderstood. C-Sections will always remove a baby from the mother. They dont fail. Abortions can fail. Perhaps you were looking as C-Sections saving a mothers life. Sometimes there are situations that neither an abortion or C-Section can help. Medicine is a science, not perfected. At least with C-Sections there is the effort to do what is best for both mother and baby. Never kill. or First, do no harm...
@Flowtail I am unsure what you are looking for that I posted alot earlier. Perhaps the actual abortion procedures. Explaining the facts of an actual abortion...?? I work also with a non for profit full time so forgive the lack of time I have to search to which your are referring.
@TheGothicMaria So, based on your way of thinking, it is a geographical issue. Prior to birth, a child is a parasite worthy of death. A parasite is depending on another to live so my question was if you were hooked onto a machine in order to live....by all rights and your definition. We can pull the plug...Even if the child was able to live outside the womb, you can hack away at it. Thats sick...Its a baby. Not a deer tick or mosquito. My God, look at your child and tell me you can kill it
Wow. This is the most fallacious and ridiculous argument I've ever heard thrown into a debate on this issue. Your whole argument is based on bad analogies, false causes, and red herrings. You sound like a Nazi. According to your augment, war and capital punishment are analogous because there is a chance innocent people may die and must be for or against both. Also, you're saying having an abortion is like an act of war or executing a prisoner, which is not helping you not sound like a moron whe
@TheGothicMaria sitting in a hospital, dependant on a respirator. If it was you. Can I pull the plug? Your a mere parasite, right? Once you become dependant on something or someone when you are too old, you going to accept that that person can kill you. Hmm Doubt it. I have a suspicion you would start then having a problem classing anybody as a parasite!! When you life on the line.
yeah, its called a non sequitur. how do you resolve the issue of spontaneous abortion where the relationship between conceptus and host is tenuous at best?? How many millions of spontaneous abortions occur each and every day?
so your deity is an abortionist right? YES .... god is an "abortionist" as you would use the term .... what a prick your god must be to create a life only to flush it into the septic before it has a chance at life. what a prick.
@perfectbark They would not be abortions, they would be miscarriages. There are alot of bad things that happen and God does take babies to Heaven. So what God did, is for those that put there faith in Him, he gives them everlasting life at his side in Heaven. There are no tears. He sacaraficed his sinless son so that you may have this. This life IS temporary. For the wages of sin is death. We have ALL sinned and are guilty. Now, question is. Do you want life, I will tell you how!
@perfectbark BTW...terrible try and you can deny and hate all you want. Call names. Dont care. But God has given the path for all to decide if they want everlasting life. Dont blame Him that you refused it. You are responsible for your own actions. Quit blaming...You talking a bunch of smack of things you obviously know nothing about.
@TheGothicMaria Lets clarify your irrational point. This is an ethical issue to which I am speaking to one with very little ethics or value on life. If a child were a mere parasite, why are so many people like me, appalled by abortion. Even with religion out of it. Why is there Unborn protections acts?? Why can one be convicted of manslaughter in a DUI accident that kills an unborn child. To you, life is based on geography?? What sense is that? If a person is hooked to a machine???
I think there are different areas that you can be pro life in and it doesn't all just fit into killing and dying!
I am a 14 year old and was wondering if you or anyone might want to create videos for viewers my age??? I would really enjoy them and it would help me understand what things that are being tried to be opinionated on this video are held! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
@Mayalunapaste I would love to help you, having a son your very age. This is a very diffifult conversation that holds two very strong points of view. If you have questions, I would be more than happy to help you and suggest that this is a great discussion to have with your parents also I will be honest with you. I hold a very strong Christian ethics of family and life and believe that God wonderfully created you. Talk to you parents, ask me, and search what God said about you and all life.
strong christian ethics? So you must be a strong supporter of christian clerics smoking crystal meth while engaging in sex with a male prostitute, the abuse and molestation of children by christian clerics, the murder of living breathing human beings by christian clerics and the bottomless hubris associated with religious zealotry.
@perfectbark Nope, not a supporter of any sin. No matter where the sin is located or by whom. What would ever make you think I would be. Just because I am Christian. Is your nieve statement based on blasting Christianity because Christians have sinned themselves. John 3 : 16. I hate that these terrible things have taken place but my sin is forgiven..Do you need help with yours or you just trying to pick a fight?
I think there are different areas that you can be pro life in and it doesn't all just fit into killing and dying!
I am a 14 year old and was wondering if you or anyone might want to create videos for viewers my age??? I would really enjoy them and it would help me understand what things that are being tried to be opinionated on this video are held! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
@TheGothicMaria Your regularly practice avoidance. Since I clearly do not comprehend your thought process I can not assume which point you made. You child a parasite?? That one.. Your body?? that one. Come one. Which one do you want me to refute and I will allow you to choose if you want me to do it Biblically or rationally. Then, you still need to tell me how it came to be like this for you....
@TheGothicMaria You never had a rational point....but I think it is safe to say you avoiding my question now three times. The thing is, its obvious what is wrong. You just wont say it. I will flatter you inquisition though. What point?
@TheGothicMaria If you don't believe in God then it's not going to hurt. Try praying. Ask for His guidence. Listen, we are all damaged goods. Its not a judgement, but an attempt to take you down the path of self realazation. You can only hold this cold front so long. I read the weight of your soul and the burden you carry in your words. Still wanting to kow. What happened???
@TheGothicMaria And that is why you are damaged goods...So, do you look at yourself the same way. A parasite tha still could be squashed by your mother? You know what, since you have evaded the question, I think that is it. It your lacking relationship with your mother that bothers you so. I really want to know what makes you tick? Think and act the way you do? I know you dont believe it but I do care and it sound like you need to feel th love. Go ahead, ask God. He wants to help you.
@TheGothicMaria Perhaps you should just be more selective on what you let in the first place. You sound irrational. No one has the right to be inside my body...Really? For that you justify abortion. Killing life to defend a stance of it's my body. But, I am once again going to set this thought process aside hoping no child becomes involved and ask again...What happen to you? Parents not around. Dad left? Indoctorinated by NOW? FYI, God wants you back home.
CDK007 started with one solid video post, but each of the others I view seems to be weaker than the last!
He argues that dp supporters inevitably support killing the innocents because 8 were later found potentially innocent.
Similarly if one supports abortion rights one also supports killing mothers because sometimes the mother's life can be lost as a result of the abortion.
No silly, dp supporters oppose executing innocent people much like you oppose killing mothers seeking abortions!
@TheGothicMaria You dont need to go around killing your own children or using abortion as a contraceptive. Nobody has a right to live inside another person! Well, now we can agree it IS life and to that thought, you don't have the right to take away life. I dont care that you dont want kids and the way your are at this moment, that would be best. I speak for the child, not you. From conception to natural death. You just sound so hurt and cold...really. What happened?
@TheGothicMaria Sorry to disappoint, I am not gratifying an ego just pointing out the obvious because you are very matter of fact when it comes to the life inside. Taking you at your word. Perhaps I stuck a nerve because I hit the truth? To quote your own words "It's cool with me". You wouldnt think twice about it. My God, this is your child! What happened to you that you would be so cold. You know your damaged, you dont want to admit I am right and that I can help you. What happened?
@TheGothicMaria Sounds like you are damaged goods. Just the same though, you were wonderfully created and God wishes save you. If you would like to know how to be saved, I will help you. If not, at least give thanks to God that your mother did not feel the same about you. Perhaps you are not a mother yet or perhaps you have not looked at your childs heart beat. Perhaps you will appreciate life then. I have a sneeking suspicioun you really dont know abortion procedures though.
The first argument is straightforward. You can't be prolife and for the death penalty. Given. The 2nd one is weak. You can defend your "state" without having to kill innocents, especially if it's on your own soil. Here you argue against self-defense. That's absurd. The 3rd one is the exception that pro-choicers always bring up. (Interesting how infrequently it's invoked.) Anyhow, I'll let an ethicist (or mother) decide that one.
More interesting is the question: when does human life begin?
@TheGothicMaria You give more consideration to where you want to eat and not the life inside you? Really. You make it sound so matter of fact. Simple. After counseling post abortion, its not that simple. I also ask you to read each abortion procedure and say, Okay. That's cool with me.
Who really loses in an abortion. Just the child? No. Nobody wins with an abortion. Dear Woman, there is help and there is support. If your in an abusive situation, an abortion is not going to end that situation. You will have to live with decision you make. Knowledge is power. I offer only the truth. I will not lie and I will not suger coat the facts. If you need help..you need only ask.
embryos are not children. Roeder, like a lot of religious zealots, was not thinking of his own living breathing children when he murdered that doctor, he thought only of to intercede in the decision making of others who had their own reasons for choosing abortion.
There are thousands of nuts like Roeder with borderline psychopathologies who have simply not yet acted on their ideations. Consider the lunatics in the AOG who support Roeders and Paul Jennings Hills living in your world
@perfectbark First of all, life begins at conception. I will not argue that with you. Calling a baby anything else is just a way of simplifying the killing that is being done. Second, I would not condone the murder of the doctor either. We can not kill people, who kill people, to show killing it wrong. Its is pathetic though you would adimitly defend an abortion doctor and yet kill babies. At what point is it murder to you?? When does life begin? Is it merely geographical to you?
@MsMotleyone Actually life began before conception (remember the sperm and the egg are alive...). Killing a "life" does not mean murder. People kill animals for food, use pesticides, use antibiotics etc, all of those are killing "life."
@ericaj58 So you are saying your Pro Life. Cool. Murder is killing a person with malice aforethought. Less, you are trying to get me in a battle of semantics. Are you trying to justify killing babies because we smack bugs? Really? Or are you trying to put plants and animals on the same level as human beings.
@Moustafro Yeah, thats it. Trying to preserve life and help mothers. What a terrorist I am. It's a baby. A baby who can feel pain and wants to live. If anybody is the terrorist, it would be the ones willing to kill. You were wonderfully created and God new you before you were born. Take some times and read what abortions do. The actia; procedure. I posted it earlier. Then explain how you are okay with that and then tell me how I am the terrorist, and not you!
All options must be open. At the most basic level, the abortion issue is not really about abortion. It is about the value of women in society. Should women make their own decisions about family, career and how to live their lives? Or should government do that for them? Do women have the option of deciding when or whether to have children? Or is that a government decision?
@angelic6465 I thought you last post to me was offering your scholastic pedigree to outweigh the strength of my argument or possibly to avoid my hard questions to you. Should men and women be accountible for the actions they take, Once life has started, who are you to take it away. When do we set aside our personal wants for the needs of our children. If we are unsure when life starts, should we be so willing to take it away. Does legislation outweigh our morals?
There has been an estimated 79 million spontaneous abortions over the last decade alone, so in toto there must be billions of "god" abortions to date.
Why would you choose to define the "start of life" as a point in time where there is a union of sperm and egg only to have your deity flush it into the sewer shortly thereafter?? Illogical, irrational, if not weird, stuff this religion business of yours.
@MsMotleyone Fetuses are not legally or scientifically defined as "babies". They are not considered babies until after they are born.
I don't understand why you are so full of rabid hatred. How can you define yourself as a christian? I am a mother, much like yourself. I have children that I love very much, I chose to have them, they were wanted. I breastfed all of them, I spent 5 wonderful years of my life either breastfeeding or pregnant. I have love for children, especially mine.
I found this statistic to be extremely ironic. 8% of women who have late term abortions stated that they waited so long because someone pro-life actually caused some women to wait far longer in her pregnancy to terminate her pregnancy.
Can you believe this statistic? 8% of women who have late term abortions stated that they waited so long because someone (pro-life?) pressured her not to have an abortion and it actually caused some women to wait far longer in her pregnancy to terminate her pregnancy. Oh the Irony.
In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:
71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
@angelic6465 In a survey taken in the first few weeks after the abortion, between 40 and 60 percent of women questioned reported negative reactions. Within 8 weeks after their abortions, 55% expressed guilt and 31% had regrets about their decision
@angelic6465 Oh look, I will tell you where I got my information too! It amazaing me you have no response to abortion procedures. Are you so inhumane that reading a baby being cut does nothing. Again, you justify crime with crime. Committing a wrong in the name of another wrong. Two different problems. Do we go killing drunk driver for killing innocent people. Same logic. You want to stop the problem, I am going to give you the solution. Morality.......
@angelic6465 without Morality, there is Crime, Abortion. sexual assult. God gave us life. If you choose to believe or not. Christ is needed, but you turn from his ways. Do you believe Christ would want abortions? Not religious look-with abortion comes the lack of accountability. Woman are for sex, not love an marriage. The insitution of family has been ruined. There are no winners in an aborted baby. It does take its toll on your soul. I dont believe you ever counseled a woman....
@angelic6465 post abortion. Parenting..please talk to your daughter. Her friends may find themselves in the E.R due to suicide or O.Ding. Just because a 15 year is afraid to tell mom or dad, doesn't mean mom and dad dont love and want to help. A parent deserves to know and I only hope you would want to know, not have someone keep this from you. Dont justify it with one bad parent. Most of us want to be there for our kids. The results of your ideals are going around you. Look-then change!
@MsMotleyone I have to admit that although I enjoyed the intellectual debate and regret that I do not have time to pursue it any further. I have started classes again and have a full course load @13 credits and a part time job working for a professor at my college. I am only two semesters away from my degree in Social Work . Although it is obvious that neither of us will change the other's mind, we've each given the other food for thought. Good luck with your passion in life.
To all youtume users: Please watch the youtube video Anti-Abortion Measures Can Hurt ALL Pregnant Women. You can judge for yourself how anti-abortion laws can hurt all of us, when our rights are taken from us.
Please watch the youtube video Anti-Abortion Measures Can Hurt ALL Pregnant Women. You can judge for yourself how anti-abortion laws can hurt all of us, when our rights are taken from us.
@the motleyone "Perhaps you would of thought a little bit more before sleeping with someone". THESE ARE YOUR WORDS. Do you really think all women have that choice? Here are a few more facts for you regarding just how many women don't get the choice of deciding to have sex. Pregnancy is not the "just dessert" a woman has to have for her sexuality.
The Justice Department estimates that one in five women will experience rape or attempted rape during their college years, and that less than five percent of these rapes will be reported. Sexual abuse accounts for 12% of the one million substantiated cases of child abuse and neglect annually (Reece, 2000). Approximately 20% of adult women, and 5-10% of men have been sexually abused as children.
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day.6 Other estimates, such as those generated by the FBI, are much lower because they rely on data from law enforcement agencies. A significant number of crimes are never even reported for reasons that include the victim's feeling that nothing can/will be done.
Sexual assault happens. One in three female soldiers will experience sexual assault while serving in the military, compared to one in six women in the civilian world. The Pentagon released a disturbing report Tuesday on sexual abuse in the military, saying that more than 2,900 sexual assaults were reported last year, up nearly 9 percent from the year before. Nearly two-thirds of the cases involved rape or aggravated assault.
Please watch the youtube video Anti-Abortion Measures Can Hurt ALL Pregnant Women. You can judge for yourself how anti-abortion laws can hurt all of us, when our rights are taken from us.
@angelic6465 Abortion hurts all woman and babies. You just dont don't want to admit it. Every day I hear and see the effects on mothers, families, that you just turn a blind eye to in the name of rights. You turn a blind eye to the scarring caused in the uterus, the potential loss of ability to have babies again. There are consequences including death that can happen. But the depression I see, heartbreaking...the loss of life..
@MsMotleyone Do I have to say this again? Abortion carries a 1% risk of complications for women. Pregnancy, cesarean section and labor and delivery have a FAR greater risk of causing injuries, complications, AND scarring for women.
@angelic6465 JUST SO EVERYBODY IS CLEAR WHAT YOU ARE OKAY WITH. I WILL EXPLAIN EACH ABORTION SO WOMAN KNOW..
Suction Aspiration/Vacuum Curettage: A powerful suction tube with a sharp cutting edge is inserted into the womb through the dilated cervix. The suction dismembers the body of the developing baby and tears the placenta from the wall of the uterus, sucking the contents into a collection bottle. .
@angelic6465 Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): Forceps with sharp metal jaws are used to grasp parts of the developing baby, which are then twisted and torn away. This continues until the child’s entire body is removed from the womb. Because the baby’s skull has often hardened to bone by this time, the skull must sometimes be compressed or crushed to facilitate removal.
@angelic6465 Partial-Birth Abortion: Used in the fifth and sixth months of pregnancy and sometimes later. tthe abortionist reaches into the uterus, grabs the unborn baby’s leg with forceps and pulls the baby into the birth canal, except for the head, which is deliberately kept just inside the womb (at this point in the abortion the baby is alive). Then the abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a long surgical scissors or another instrument.
@MsMotleyone Less than 1% of all abortions in the Untied states and Canada are late tern partial birth abortions, it's usually only preformed when there are serious abnormalities in the fetus. Facts: In 1997, the Guttmacher Institute estimated the number of abortions in the U.S. past 24 weeks to be 0.08%, or approximately 1,032 per year.Also, 13 states prohibit abortion after a certain number of weeks' gestation (usually 24 weeks). As of April 2007, 36 states had bans on late-term abortions,
@angelic6465 He enlarges the wound and inserts a catheter (tube), which is connected to a powerful suction machine that sucks the baby’s brains out. The abortionist then withdraws the now-collapsed skull from the uterus.
@MsMotleyone Reality Check: Please watch this video on youtube Crisis Pregnancy Centers: A Special Report.
I hope your pregnancy center does not endorse unethical practices such as these?
If so, than I am very disappointed, I thought that you were there to HELP women, who have made the decision to stay pregnant and have a child. Not just to PREVENT women from making that choice for themselved.
To prohibit abortions does not stop them. When women feel it is absolutely necessary, they will choose to have abortions--even in secret, without medical care, in dangerous circumstances. In the two decades before abortion was legal in the U.S., it's been estimated that nearly 1 million women per year sought out illegal abortions. Thousands died. Tens of thousands were mutilated. All were forced to behave as if they were criminals.
@angelic6465 Laws for abortion kill babies. How has people like angelic6465 feel that killing anything can be a rational answer to a problem. Has society as a whole sunk so low that Planned Parenthood is allowed to decieve our children without our knowledge. Let us not hide the fact that legalized abortions single handedly destroyed the value of life, and the value of woman. If you every find yourself in need of the truth. Contact Carenet. Talk to your parents.your pastor..with love 4 life!
@MsMotleyone You are such a blatant progagandist! Do you ever see ads where Planned Parenhood is advertising for abortions? Are there commercials? Women go to planned parenthood for many reasons other than abortions. Mainly... to prevent unwanted pregnancies. That accounts for 90% of what they do. They also provide free or low cost birth control, reproductive health care, std testing, Gynecology, ACCURATE pregnancy tests (unlike some pro-life "pregnancy" centers). Pap Smears etc.
@MsMotleyone Fetuses are not legally or scientifically defined as "babies". They are not considered babies until after they are born.
I don't understand why you are so full of rabid hatred. How can you define yourself as a christian? I am a mother, much like yourself. I have children that I love very much, I chose to have them, they were wanted. I breastfed all of them, I spent 5 wonderful years of my life either breastfeeding or pregnant. I have love for humanity, not hatred.
@angelic6465 You have the hatred. I am just countering your lies and misinformation so some 15 year old girl knows that it is life they carry and people are available to support them during and after child birth. Not people like you who offer scissors and table and say, I am done with you. If you have love for humanity, respect the life inside of the human.
Legal abortion not only protects women's lives, it also protects their health. For tens of thousands of women with heart disease, kidney disease, severe hypertension, sickle-cell anemia and severe diabetes and other illnesses that can be life-threatening, the availability of legal abortion has helped avert serious medical complications that could have resulted from childbirth.
@angelic6465 Legal abotions protect women's and mens consequence for there actions. It allows our children to have surgical procedure without there parents knowledge. Is a 15 year old girl going to say she has a blood clotting problem before her abortion. The availability of C-Sections always outweigh the abortion. This is a pathetic excuse always used to hide the fact that it is about not wanting to be accountable for our bodies and actions we take.
@MsMotleyone C-sections are NOT safer for the woman, an open abdominal incision, . In 2000, the mortality rate for Caesareans in the United States were 20 per 1,000,000. The UK National Health Service gives the risk of death for the mother as three times that of a vaginal birth,
@angelic6465 That a lie...if the woman "life" is in danger the safest and quickest way to help her is a C-Section. Period. The mortality rate for babies during abortion is 100%...
@angelic6465 and a hell alot less of them took place and we are here to talk about it because our mothers did not throw us away. There was a larger value placed on sex and marriage. Now society has come to be self serving and indulging, sex is just for pleasure. Is society really better today than in the 50's?? I dont believe so..
There's an argument these days that a fetus is a "person" that is "indistinguishable from the rest of us," and that it deserves rights equal to women's. On this question, there is a tremendous spectrum of religious, philosophical, scientific and medical opinion. It's been argued for centuries
@angelic6465 A fetus is a baby. Life has been given, a heart is beating, the baby can feel pain and deserves more than a pair of scissor to the back of the head!! What the procedure of the partial birth abortion, if you okay with it you are one seriously sick individual.
Fortunately, our society has recognized that each woman must be able to make this decision, based on her own conscience. To impose a law defining a fetus as a "person," granting it rights equal to or superior to a woman's--a thinking, feeling, conscious human being--is arrogant and absurd. It only serves to diminish women.
@angelic6465 Yet, life is formed. If you want woman to make a decision on her own conscience. Please explain each abortion procedure and how it is done. What is there to hide...Right ahh....that right. You refused to do that too. Hmm ..wonder why?? Oh yeah, because when looking at your baby on an ultrasound and seeing it being cut into pieces until the heart stops would cause the woman to make a better decision.
Many hard battles have been fought to win political and economic equality for women. These gains will not be worth much if reproductive choice is denied. To be able to choose a safe, legal abortion makes many other options possible. Otherwise an accident or a rape can end a woman's economic and personal freedom.
@angelic6465 Every person can control there reproduction. Abortion just allow them not to face the consequence of there decision. Abortion allows men to devalue woman and woman to devalue what sex is about. What family is about and what marriage is about. Everyone would think alot more about who the lie with if the consequences would to be upheld.
Anti-abortion laws discriminate against low-income women, who are driven to dangerous self-induced or back-alley abortions. That is all they can afford. But the rich can travel wherever necessary to obtain a safe abortion.
@angelic6465 So is telling woman who has enough love and money to raise a child. Explain an abortion procedure and what the baby feels and the long term effects are on woman. Dont hide the truth.
6. Compulsory pregnancy laws are incompatible with a free society.
If there is any matter which is personal and private, then pregnancy is it. There can be no more extreme invasion of privacy than requiring a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. If government is permitted to compel a woman to bear a child, where will government stop? The concept is morally repugnant. It violates traditional American ideas of individual rights and freedoms.
The same kind of argument that you are making could easily by used by the other side to say that you are an hypocrite because you are against murder and then he could finish his argument by saying you are not pro-choice, you are just against babies.
Btw I'm pro-choice too. I'm just exposing the fallacy of your argument.
Too me, it's ok to kill fetuses before their brain reaches a certain state of development because they can't have a mind without it and therefore are human but not beings.
Tamizushi 2 months ago
Yes.
No.
No.
No.
Also you made reference to logic, but committed a logical fallacy at least twice e.g. when claiming that pro-life pro-war people think it's okay for innocents to die in war. That is a huge jump. It may be just a necessary evil or acceptable.
TheHardout2005 4 months ago
He may not of been prolife but he was def. anti-abortion. I think we need more like him.
centaurwarior 5 months ago
I'm a Catholic, and I'm pro-life...
Q1: No
Q2: The concept of Just War does exist. It's not because it's an utopia, and you'll get innoncents killed, that therefore you can justify an immoral act. Both should be condemed (and Just War kept as a hypothetic solution).
Q3: Life is a gift, not a due.
You say "to save the mother's life"... that is true. But, not doing anything would mean killing both of them, which is irrational. So of course we save the life of the mother in some circumstances.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
I am not sure the exact passage but in the bible it says in one attack that God told people to rip the babies from the mothers womb i can look it up,but it is obvious God condones abortion
johndebbra 5 months ago
@johndebbra You obviosly have not read the whole bible because you have taken that out of context. God was speaking a prophecy against samaria. Exodus 21:22 If men strive to hurt a woman with child, so that her fruitdepart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. The Bible is anti-abortion all the way, so much so that it is evil to even spill your seed on the ground.
centaurwarior 5 months ago
@johndebbra Hosea 13:16 - "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."
Akira625 5 months ago
@Akira625 thanks for the evidence maybe centaurwarior can agree unless being rebellious means abortion is ok
johndebbra 5 months ago
since your just a punk kid who probably works at 7 11 night shift and plays video games in your spare time in your moms basement with no girlfriend, consider this my last response. I wont read your anymore. Youre a loser like tiller hahahahah
thejizzman99 7 months ago
God bless abortion doctors! Down to hell with pro-life extremists!
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
What if I told you that you are a disgusting low life piece of shit who can rationalize deaths of innocent people regardless of the circumstances and come up with bull shit statistics that sew up the idea that an unborn babies life is as unimportant as one who is to be sentenced on death row or victimized by war pro life means protecting life of the innocent, others have themselves to blame for their own deaths
semperfitillidie15 7 months ago
@semperfitillidie15 Bold talk from a dirty lowlife who places the value of human life so low. Your logic is as sad as your cowardly little message on my channel. Such ashame you weren't aborted.
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
if abortion is made legal than 99% of woman will abort their babies, and is proven than the moment the sperm hits the egg god already gave it a name.
Keys0penD00RS 7 months ago
Comparing accidental death in wars that stop aggressors from killing millions more innocent people than those innocents caught in the cross fire, or the death sentence, a fraction of its victims are innocent, versus termination of an embryo for convenience reasons, consequence to the mother and father's choice to procreate (surely they knew where babies come from and that birth control is not very effective?) ... Terrible analogy, not that I would not have non-partial birth abortions banned.
WxsOnline 7 months ago
Load of bull. I'm anti-choice-to-slay-a-child-of-any-person-just-for-selfish-reasons (the reason the vast majority of abortions were performed by Planned Parenthood for...according to PP themselves). Since about 5% of abortions were claimed for health reasons, rape, or incest, and 15% of abortions (PP 2007ish if I recall) were partial birth abortions, which literally offer no health benefits, nor save the mother any freedoms vs. adopting the child out, I'll call myself ~96% anti-choice.
WxsOnline 7 months ago
I know many pro lifers and absolutely none of them agree with committing violence in the name of the cause. They condemn it completely.
No matter how many thousands of terrorist attacks have been committed by muslims the last 30+ years, people fall over themselves making the point that we can't label all muslims as terrorists. These same people will take the rare violent act by an anti-abortion activist and have no problem using it to smear the pro-life movement as a whole.
TempusFugit101 8 months ago
actually the commandment thou shalt not kill DOES come with exceptions. if someone held a knife to your wife's throat and you had a gun? i love liberals.... you bash a book youve never read and dont believe, and then you try to hold other's to its standards. so which is it? bottom line tiller dead babies saved. Thanks and God bless you Scott!
thejizzman99 9 months ago
@thejizzman99 God does not bless killers like Roeder. Murderers are punished in the afterlife, not praised
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
@Ultimaton100 did you read my post? or just didnt process it?
thejizzman99 7 months ago
@thejizzman99 I read your post, and that does not change the fact people like Scott Roeder are not praised in the afterlife, but punished instead. He was a murderer and responsible for crimes against humanity. He murdered a good man, and must answer to God for his wrongdoings.
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
@Ultimaton100 I wish you knew what you were talking about
thejizzman99 7 months ago
@thejizzman99 That's just what I was thinking of you. Our nation is dedicated to stoping global terrorism and yet you support one here at home. There is something very wrong with that.
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
@Ultimaton100 George tiller was delivering babies heads and then smashing their skulls in and sucking out their brains. Scott Roeder sacrificed his freedom to prevent this monster from continuing to do so. God gave him the power and courage to throw his earthly life away. Scott is in God's favor and will be rewarded accordingly in Heaven. Tiller is in Hell. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the Bible, or in your case, probably not be familiar with it at all
thejizzman99 7 months ago
@thejizzman99 I've taken numerous religious classes and I've been to church. I pray to God everyday. I know God does not reward murderers. George Tiller never killed one baby. He just performed abotions. Tiller was a hero for putting his life on the line to help people. God rewards the noble and good, like him. You clearly misunderstand right from wrong.
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
@Ultimaton100 I bet youve never studied the Bible or gone to church, apparently you play a lot of anime and fantasy type games as well. You are probably relying on what someone else or the world told you. Trust me on this one bro.
thejizzman99 7 months ago
@thejizzman99 Scott Roeder on the other hand gave into his selfishness and hate. It is sacrelige to say God encouraged him to kill a good man. Roeder killed a good and noble man, a hero. He is no better than Al Qaeda. You may think he is in God's favor, and I guess you think the same about Osama bin Laden too. Tiller is in Heaven, where the righteous like him belong, and Roeder is doomed to Hell with his evil brethren. God rewards good, not evil.
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
@Ultimaton100 youre an idiot.. read your Bible. God is not "good" the way you think of it. Youre an ass clown and the fact remains tiller is dead, scott is alive and babies were saved! hahahahahahahahahaha
thejizzman99 7 months ago
@thejizzman99 Said the foul-mouthed fool who places the value of human life so low. As a matter of fact, I work at a summer camp for underprivileged kids. I do my part to help people and society and earn God's favor in the afterlife, just like George Tiller did. I give back to the community and help people, while you praise terrorists. I think its pretty clear who the real loser is here.
Ultimaton100 7 months ago
I think you bring up good points. Let me answer your questions.
1. Yes, I am pro life.
2. I am against capital punishment.
3. I am against war. I think self-defense in war is unavoidable, having abortion is.
4. I am against abortion in ALL instances. Even if the mother's life is at risk.
Also, you should know that I am a flaming liberal one every other issue. I just view the fetus as a life and should have rights. Thank you though, I'm tired of so called "pro life" hypocrites.
policydeb8er321 9 months ago
@ccik09090909 if you call yourself pro-life and you eat plants or animals your a hypocrite
NightHawkBomber001 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ccik09090909 1. Since when did I say I'm a pro-CHOICE? Sorry but I don't use superficial and emotional-laden labels to promote any campaign.
2. Have you heard of the words "freedom" and "rights"? The US gives her citizens freedom and individual rights, but does it mean American citizens are "free" to commit murders or have the "right" to commit murders? Should we call America a hypocrite because she doesn't allow people to commit murder? Think about it. :)
hoasenhong 10 months ago
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hoasenhong 10 months ago
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hoasenhong 10 months ago
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hoasenhong 10 months ago
Something important to remember is that many of us have led deeply disturbing and sometimes quite bloody life’s, and in many cases this is as a result of us being born in to poverty or having a parent or parents, guardian or guardians, who suffer from a mental illness, and don't get me started on if it turns out to be hereditary.
My point is that life for the sake of life sucks.
Be responsible.
qwer58j 10 months ago
tiller dead babies saved.....God Bless you Scott Roeder!
thejizzman99 10 months ago
1) Since when did innocent babies have any evidence against them to convict them of the death penalty? I'm against the death penalty anyway but it's a valid question to ask anyway.
2) Since when were babies able to fight back under circumstances of war? And what did babies do to deserve death brought to them?
3) Yeah, the guy was a hypocrite, So what? So are you.
You do realise that your position can be used to justify any murder? But hey, that's the hypocrite that you are.
3)
DarthOvious 10 months ago
He was just executing a murderer and saving God only knows how many babies.
Danthemanlyman7 11 months ago
That guy who kill the doctor was not a real pro life!
fintyrock 11 months ago
@fintyrock No truescottsman fallacy.
SDub817 10 months ago
Your arguments establish that it is okay to kill people in some circumstances. They do NOT establish that abortion is one of those circumstances. Surely, you don't think that since it's okay to kill some people in some circumstances that it's therefore okay to kill all people in every circumstance.
philochristos 11 months ago
@philochristos
Don't let your good reasoning get in the way the fact tht pro-choicers will ignore this. They will ignore anything that can be used against them logic wise. Oh so people get killed in wars and on the death penalty, therefore it's ok to kill some innocents in some circumstances. I guess I can take a shotgun down to my local shop then and blow apart the innocent clerk behind it. :duh:
DarthOvious 10 months ago
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hoasenhong 10 months ago
@DarthOvious Are you pro-life? If you answer yes then you're one of the biggest hypocrites on earth. Have you ever had a hamburger for lunch? Poor cow. His life was taken way because of consumers like you. Oh you may say you're a vegetarian, but consider this fact: plants are living things too. =D I see you guys will get mad but how about coming up with a new term for your campaign instead? 'Cause anything that can grow, response to stimuli, and reproduce has a "life".
hoasenhong 10 months ago
@hoasenhong it would help if you understood that actual definition of pro-life which is the following: describes the moral, political and ethical opposition to elective abortion and support for its legal prohibition or restriction. Those involved in the pro-life movement generally maintain that the human fetus (and in most cases the human embryo) is a person and therefore has a right to life. so the cow doesn't count.
2ravenf0x2 10 months ago
@2ravenf0x2 My point was that "pro-life" was an inaccurate and very emotional-laden word and that the anti-abortion people do not deserve that title.
hoasenhong 10 months ago
You claiming that pro-life people are inconsistent when they accept the inevitable death of innocent people is just as absurd as if I claimed that pro-choice people are inconsistent when they OPPOSE killing innocent in some situations. Do you think it is inconsistent for a pro-choice person to be okay with killing the innocent unborn, but not okay to kill the guilty born, whether in war or capital punishment? If anything, THAT is inconsistent--condoning innocent death & opposing guilty death.
philochristos 11 months ago
3. I oppose abortion under every circumstance except to save the life of the mother.
Your assertion that it's inconsistent to be pro-life while condoning the death of some innocent people is absurd. To be pro-life means to be against abortion. It doesn't mean to be against all death. Abortions are not done on accident, they are not done in self-defense (except in rare cases), and they are not done in ignorance of the guilt or innocence of the unborn.
philochristos 11 months ago
2. Yes, I do support war for reasons you gave--self-defense. It is okay to kill innocent people on accident in the interest of saving lives and self-defense. It is not okay to kill innocent people on purpose without the interest of saving lives and self-defense. So war is okay, even though it results in the death of innocent people, but abortion is not okay. Abortion to save the life of the mother is okay for the same reason war is okay--self-defence.
philochristos 11 months ago
1. I would support capital punishment if I had more confidence in the justice system. There have been too many bad convictions for me to be comfortable with the death penalty. But I do think the distinction between guilt and innocence is relevant, and I hope you do, too. You make a really bad argument here--as if it's okay to kill somebody we KNOW to be innocent just because somebody might be okay with killing somebody we have a strong reason to believe is guilty.
philochristos 11 months ago
In Exodus 20:13, Where the King James translates it, "Thou shalt not kill" the the word litterally means to "dash to pieces." This clearly means to "murder." It is further clarified in chapters 21 and 22 of Exodus, where accidental death is not punishable and murder is. The problem arises when humans try to make our own rules rather than trusting in God's word. Pro-life does not mean "no capital punishment", it simply values innocent life, and requires punishment of the guilty.
ssmaxwell220 1 year ago
In war, we do not target specific innocent people to kill. It is sad that there is innocent loss of life, and if it is a result of neglegence, the soldiers are and should be punished. In the case of convicted criminals, if we would use the Biblical standard, those who provide the convicting testimony would be required to "pull the switch," thereby making them murderers if they gave false testimony. There is a distinction between "murder" and accidental death. How sad that you are so blind.
ssmaxwell220 1 year ago
Embryos are not sentient beings and are incapable of thought, and cannot feel pain. They are not alive as embryos, and if they are, they are nothing more than other non-sentient beings that people kill without a thought. One could argue that an abortion steals the embryos chance to become a living thing, but surely you're robbing sperm and eggs of the chance to become a living thing when you use contraception? Proudly pro-choice. Great video.
EpicNinjaGuy123 1 year ago
@EpicNinjaGuy123 People in comas are sometimes also incapable of thought or pain. Is it okay to kill them? Embryos are, without question, alive. They grow, their cells reproduce, they have metabolism, and they react to stimuli. There is no sense in which they are not alive. And they are not like any other non-sentient being that people kill without thought. Roaches are roaches, and trees are trees, but embryos are human. Their parents are human, and their DNA is human.
philochristos 11 months ago
This is a false dichotomy. You don't have to be against killing under any circumstances to be against unnecessary abortion. You can argue that in the situation where the mother's life is not in danger then the mother does not have the right to choose because choosing an abortion infringes on the right to life of the child. In the reverse situation where the mother's life IS in danger, then the child does not have the right to risk the life of the mother for its own survival.
djpob 1 year ago
So your saying that conservatives are hypocritical for believing in the punishment of convicted criminals, but for the survival of an innocent baby?
How about you guys, who are FOR killing innocent babies, but would STAND IN THE WAY of a convicted murderer on death row!
agarrett707 1 year ago
@agarrett707
no the problem here is the term "pro-life". Scott Roeder is against abortion but is not prolife because you cant be prolife and go around killing people.
no one is saying scott roeder doesnt deserve life in prision. except the "pro-life" people of course.
AceofDiamonds0 1 year ago
I am against abortion
On a moral level I support capital punishment.
On the legal level however it gets a bit trickier. I think we need to tighten it from beyond a reasonable doubt to, beyond a conceivable doubt. I could explain it in more detail but Youtube does not allow much space for comments.
I am opposed to war especially strategies that involve the deaths of civilians. I have ideas for more non lethal methods.
BenjaminWirtz 1 year ago
Question 1: I oposse death penalty, that makes us no better that the killer. Especially if there's innocents in the way.
Question 2: War is sadly part of our nature. But if innocents are involved, the countries must take responsability. (I'm looking at you, Mr. I bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki and never answered for those crimes!)
Question 3: If the mother is in direct danger, then yes, if not, that would be senseless killing.
GohanLSSJ2 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Well, I am not telling them to kill there babies!!! That is so hypocritical! You heading over there with a knife and vacuum??? Hmmm.... Handing out food off your plate or just touting your garbage. You know what. You know what happens when your choose to have sex. Heaven forbid you would take responsibility for your actions. No, not you. You have a uterine invader. I am convinced you are not right in the head and I will no longer respond due to your illness.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria I can not rationalize with an irrational person. Your a parasite to the earth. You discount a baby by geographical location and then make assumption that I lack the care for others with knowing nothing about me and I will NEVER justifiy the murder of a child for the unfortunate sitation of others on this earth. I guess I can put a bullet in your head and say it okay..there are starving people in Africa. One less mouth to feed.. Come on! You really need to do better
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Every thing you speak is selfish. You justify murder by symantics and labels. What you preach is heartless and sounds like you given up your soul. I will pray for you. Your hate and tone are a obvious example of what happens to a post abortion woman who needs to justify themselves. Ladies...read up on GothicMaria and see if this is the type of person you want to become. If you need eternal life, I will be happy to show you the way..
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria First, you have no points. Second, I volunteer through Carenet. Assisting mothers keep there babies, showing ultrasounds and heartbeats. Providing the needs of the child when born and work full time for a non for profit serving mothers and babies. I have counseled post abortion and address the loss those mothers experience. So....once again. You are wrong.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Huh. How about that. If i ever meet somebody who is pro-life, I'm totally whipping out this definition!
Flowtail 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Wait, but wouldn't a parasite have to be a different species of animal than the host?
Then again, the chance of the fetus (when it's born) being able to have fertile offspring with the "host" are virtually nill...
Flowtail 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria my own selfish needs. I do not and will never put myself or my wallet before my own children. I have counseled hard heads like you in deep depression trying to convince themselves that the abortion is okay. "GothicMaria" are you hiding behind makeup and dark clothing? Harboring angst against your own family and perhaps your own abortion? You can pick up the knife and vaccuum without guilt or sense that what you are about to do is wrong? I guess there is still evil here.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria All this ranting our your part is your need to jusify yourself or actions. You can call a BABY a fetus all you want, but at the end of the day. No matter how your try to convince yourself otherwise. You having an abortion would be YOU taking the life away from your own child. The moment you justify killing children to save ones pocket book, you put money above life. You live by this sword, you shall die by it. I have not been fooled but have morals and ethics beyond..
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria So how the hell would a BABY matter where it is located. SO you are saying YES, pull the plug on me when i am dependant on another person or thing to sustain life. I bet you would be singing a different tune if it was you. You know what, i beg to differ. You have a large moral obligation to the child you could be caring. Take responsiblity for your actions. You words sound very much like someone trying to justify there own action and living with guilt. You dont fool me!
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone But what if the mother would die if she gave birth?
Flowtail 1 year ago
@Flowtail A C-Section is ALWAYS the fastest way to save a mothers life and it happens to save a babies too!! An abortion is a "D & C" which stands for Dialations and Contraction. This can take over 24 hours while a c-sections is done in minutes. Pro Abotionist try to perpetuate this lie to justify actions. It simple is not true.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone Whoa. Cutting open a person's uterus is faster than actually giving birth?
That's great and all, but what if she can't take care of the kid?
Flowtail 1 year ago
@Flowtail Yes, it is. C-Section is the fastest way to save a mothers life. Ask any OB...that is a fact. Birth can take days....abortion alot longer than 3 minutes.. Adoption is always a great alternative. Killing a child to save a buck is immoral and irrational and we will never be a civalized nation as long as we hold ourselves or our money as greater value than life itself. Im sure you as well as other can attest if it was your life about to be taken.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone I didn't know that! Didn't mean for the tone to be sarcastic. Sorry :)
But you're not killing a child. They are not yet alive- like... taking out somebody's appendix and calling it unethical. Know what I mean? Besides, C-Sections don't always work do they? After all... it IS cutting somebody's body open, so there have to be risks, right?
Flowtail 1 year ago
@Flowtail Yes, you are killing a child...The heart starts beating at 6 weeks old and yes that baby can feel pain!! The baby is not a part, but a whole seperate being. And yes...C-sections ALWAYS work. I posted alot earlier what the abortion procedures are. It is disgusting and have more risk involved. Then you have not counted the lasting effects on the mother. I have counseled post abortion. Its not a simple as pro abortionist would like you to believe. I devote my time to the facts.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone I hate to completely contradict you, but C-sections don't always work- although they do have a surprisingly high success rate!
Uh... could you rewrite the last part of your comment? Starting with: "I posted alot earlier..."? Sorry- I just couldn't wade through it, and I gotta go do Humanities, so... <:(
Flowtail 1 year ago
@Flowtail Perhaps the context of C-Sections always working is being misunderstood. C-Sections will always remove a baby from the mother. They dont fail. Abortions can fail. Perhaps you were looking as C-Sections saving a mothers life. Sometimes there are situations that neither an abortion or C-Section can help. Medicine is a science, not perfected. At least with C-Sections there is the effort to do what is best for both mother and baby. Never kill. or First, do no harm...
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@Flowtail I am unsure what you are looking for that I posted alot earlier. Perhaps the actual abortion procedures. Explaining the facts of an actual abortion...?? I work also with a non for profit full time so forgive the lack of time I have to search to which your are referring.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
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@Flowtail "They are not yet alive" I wouldn't jump to comclussions so easily...
GohanLSSJ2 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria So, based on your way of thinking, it is a geographical issue. Prior to birth, a child is a parasite worthy of death. A parasite is depending on another to live so my question was if you were hooked onto a machine in order to live....by all rights and your definition. We can pull the plug...Even if the child was able to live outside the womb, you can hack away at it. Thats sick...Its a baby. Not a deer tick or mosquito. My God, look at your child and tell me you can kill it
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
Wow. This is the most fallacious and ridiculous argument I've ever heard thrown into a debate on this issue. Your whole argument is based on bad analogies, false causes, and red herrings. You sound like a Nazi. According to your augment, war and capital punishment are analogous because there is a chance innocent people may die and must be for or against both. Also, you're saying having an abortion is like an act of war or executing a prisoner, which is not helping you not sound like a moron whe
urautubeloser1 1 year ago
@urautubeloser1 no, you're wrong, he is right. get over it.
wikuk 1 year ago
@wikuk that was a well thought out and crafted argument. I can see why you agree.
urautubeloser1 7 months ago
@TheGothicMaria sitting in a hospital, dependant on a respirator. If it was you. Can I pull the plug? Your a mere parasite, right? Once you become dependant on something or someone when you are too old, you going to accept that that person can kill you. Hmm Doubt it. I have a suspicion you would start then having a problem classing anybody as a parasite!! When you life on the line.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone
yeah, its called a non sequitur. how do you resolve the issue of spontaneous abortion where the relationship between conceptus and host is tenuous at best?? How many millions of spontaneous abortions occur each and every day?
so your deity is an abortionist right? YES .... god is an "abortionist" as you would use the term .... what a prick your god must be to create a life only to flush it into the septic before it has a chance at life. what a prick.
perfectbark 1 year ago
@perfectbark They would not be abortions, they would be miscarriages. There are alot of bad things that happen and God does take babies to Heaven. So what God did, is for those that put there faith in Him, he gives them everlasting life at his side in Heaven. There are no tears. He sacaraficed his sinless son so that you may have this. This life IS temporary. For the wages of sin is death. We have ALL sinned and are guilty. Now, question is. Do you want life, I will tell you how!
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@perfectbark BTW...terrible try and you can deny and hate all you want. Call names. Dont care. But God has given the path for all to decide if they want everlasting life. Dont blame Him that you refused it. You are responsible for your own actions. Quit blaming...You talking a bunch of smack of things you obviously know nothing about.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Lets clarify your irrational point. This is an ethical issue to which I am speaking to one with very little ethics or value on life. If a child were a mere parasite, why are so many people like me, appalled by abortion. Even with religion out of it. Why is there Unborn protections acts?? Why can one be convicted of manslaughter in a DUI accident that kills an unborn child. To you, life is based on geography?? What sense is that? If a person is hooked to a machine???
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
I think there are different areas that you can be pro life in and it doesn't all just fit into killing and dying!
I am a 14 year old and was wondering if you or anyone might want to create videos for viewers my age??? I would really enjoy them and it would help me understand what things that are being tried to be opinionated on this video are held! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Mayalunapaste 1 year ago
@Mayalunapaste I would love to help you, having a son your very age. This is a very diffifult conversation that holds two very strong points of view. If you have questions, I would be more than happy to help you and suggest that this is a great discussion to have with your parents also I will be honest with you. I hold a very strong Christian ethics of family and life and believe that God wonderfully created you. Talk to you parents, ask me, and search what God said about you and all life.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone
strong christian ethics? So you must be a strong supporter of christian clerics smoking crystal meth while engaging in sex with a male prostitute, the abuse and molestation of children by christian clerics, the murder of living breathing human beings by christian clerics and the bottomless hubris associated with religious zealotry.
perfectbark 1 year ago
@perfectbark Nope, not a supporter of any sin. No matter where the sin is located or by whom. What would ever make you think I would be. Just because I am Christian. Is your nieve statement based on blasting Christianity because Christians have sinned themselves. John 3 : 16. I hate that these terrible things have taken place but my sin is forgiven..Do you need help with yours or you just trying to pick a fight?
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
I think there are different areas that you can be pro life in and it doesn't all just fit into killing and dying!
I am a 14 year old and was wondering if you or anyone might want to create videos for viewers my age??? I would really enjoy them and it would help me understand what things that are being tried to be opinionated on this video are held! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Mayalunapaste 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Your regularly practice avoidance. Since I clearly do not comprehend your thought process I can not assume which point you made. You child a parasite?? That one.. Your body?? that one. Come one. Which one do you want me to refute and I will allow you to choose if you want me to do it Biblically or rationally. Then, you still need to tell me how it came to be like this for you....
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria You never had a rational point....but I think it is safe to say you avoiding my question now three times. The thing is, its obvious what is wrong. You just wont say it. I will flatter you inquisition though. What point?
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria If you don't believe in God then it's not going to hurt. Try praying. Ask for His guidence. Listen, we are all damaged goods. Its not a judgement, but an attempt to take you down the path of self realazation. You can only hold this cold front so long. I read the weight of your soul and the burden you carry in your words. Still wanting to kow. What happened???
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria And that is why you are damaged goods...So, do you look at yourself the same way. A parasite tha still could be squashed by your mother? You know what, since you have evaded the question, I think that is it. It your lacking relationship with your mother that bothers you so. I really want to know what makes you tick? Think and act the way you do? I know you dont believe it but I do care and it sound like you need to feel th love. Go ahead, ask God. He wants to help you.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Perhaps you should just be more selective on what you let in the first place. You sound irrational. No one has the right to be inside my body...Really? For that you justify abortion. Killing life to defend a stance of it's my body. But, I am once again going to set this thought process aside hoping no child becomes involved and ask again...What happen to you? Parents not around. Dad left? Indoctorinated by NOW? FYI, God wants you back home.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
CDK007 started with one solid video post, but each of the others I view seems to be weaker than the last!
He argues that dp supporters inevitably support killing the innocents because 8 were later found potentially innocent.
Similarly if one supports abortion rights one also supports killing mothers because sometimes the mother's life can be lost as a result of the abortion.
No silly, dp supporters oppose executing innocent people much like you oppose killing mothers seeking abortions!
MrIwb 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria You dont need to go around killing your own children or using abortion as a contraceptive. Nobody has a right to live inside another person! Well, now we can agree it IS life and to that thought, you don't have the right to take away life. I dont care that you dont want kids and the way your are at this moment, that would be best. I speak for the child, not you. From conception to natural death. You just sound so hurt and cold...really. What happened?
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Sorry to disappoint, I am not gratifying an ego just pointing out the obvious because you are very matter of fact when it comes to the life inside. Taking you at your word. Perhaps I stuck a nerve because I hit the truth? To quote your own words "It's cool with me". You wouldnt think twice about it. My God, this is your child! What happened to you that you would be so cold. You know your damaged, you dont want to admit I am right and that I can help you. What happened?
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria Sounds like you are damaged goods. Just the same though, you were wonderfully created and God wishes save you. If you would like to know how to be saved, I will help you. If not, at least give thanks to God that your mother did not feel the same about you. Perhaps you are not a mother yet or perhaps you have not looked at your childs heart beat. Perhaps you will appreciate life then. I have a sneeking suspicioun you really dont know abortion procedures though.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
The first argument is straightforward. You can't be prolife and for the death penalty. Given. The 2nd one is weak. You can defend your "state" without having to kill innocents, especially if it's on your own soil. Here you argue against self-defense. That's absurd. The 3rd one is the exception that pro-choicers always bring up. (Interesting how infrequently it's invoked.) Anyhow, I'll let an ethicist (or mother) decide that one.
More interesting is the question: when does human life begin?
ed4wb 1 year ago
@TheGothicMaria You give more consideration to where you want to eat and not the life inside you? Really. You make it sound so matter of fact. Simple. After counseling post abortion, its not that simple. I also ask you to read each abortion procedure and say, Okay. That's cool with me.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
Scott Roeder - Christian Fundamentalist and Terrorist
Moustafro 1 year ago
Who really loses in an abortion. Just the child? No. Nobody wins with an abortion. Dear Woman, there is help and there is support. If your in an abusive situation, an abortion is not going to end that situation. You will have to live with decision you make. Knowledge is power. I offer only the truth. I will not lie and I will not suger coat the facts. If you need help..you need only ask.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@Ms
embryos are not children. Roeder, like a lot of religious zealots, was not thinking of his own living breathing children when he murdered that doctor, he thought only of to intercede in the decision making of others who had their own reasons for choosing abortion.
There are thousands of nuts like Roeder with borderline psychopathologies who have simply not yet acted on their ideations. Consider the lunatics in the AOG who support Roeders and Paul Jennings Hills living in your world
perfectbark 1 year ago
@perfectbark First of all, life begins at conception. I will not argue that with you. Calling a baby anything else is just a way of simplifying the killing that is being done. Second, I would not condone the murder of the doctor either. We can not kill people, who kill people, to show killing it wrong. Its is pathetic though you would adimitly defend an abortion doctor and yet kill babies. At what point is it murder to you?? When does life begin? Is it merely geographical to you?
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone Actually life began before conception (remember the sperm and the egg are alive...). Killing a "life" does not mean murder. People kill animals for food, use pesticides, use antibiotics etc, all of those are killing "life."
ericaj58 1 year ago
@ericaj58 So you are saying your Pro Life. Cool. Murder is killing a person with malice aforethought. Less, you are trying to get me in a battle of semantics. Are you trying to justify killing babies because we smack bugs? Really? Or are you trying to put plants and animals on the same level as human beings.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone Acutally it's a collection of cells that forms a zygote. People who follow this absolutist doctrine are America's very own Taliban
Moustafro 1 year ago
@Moustafro Yeah, thats it. Trying to preserve life and help mothers. What a terrorist I am. It's a baby. A baby who can feel pain and wants to live. If anybody is the terrorist, it would be the ones willing to kill. You were wonderfully created and God new you before you were born. Take some times and read what abortions do. The actia; procedure. I posted it earlier. Then explain how you are okay with that and then tell me how I am the terrorist, and not you!
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
All options must be open. At the most basic level, the abortion issue is not really about abortion. It is about the value of women in society. Should women make their own decisions about family, career and how to live their lives? Or should government do that for them? Do women have the option of deciding when or whether to have children? Or is that a government decision?
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 I thought you last post to me was offering your scholastic pedigree to outweigh the strength of my argument or possibly to avoid my hard questions to you. Should men and women be accountible for the actions they take, Once life has started, who are you to take it away. When do we set aside our personal wants for the needs of our children. If we are unsure when life starts, should we be so willing to take it away. Does legislation outweigh our morals?
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
There has been an estimated 79 million spontaneous abortions over the last decade alone, so in toto there must be billions of "god" abortions to date.
Why would you choose to define the "start of life" as a point in time where there is a union of sperm and egg only to have your deity flush it into the sewer shortly thereafter?? Illogical, irrational, if not weird, stuff this religion business of yours.
perfectbark 1 year ago
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angelic6465 1 year ago
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@MsMotleyone Fetuses are not legally or scientifically defined as "babies". They are not considered babies until after they are born.
I don't understand why you are so full of rabid hatred. How can you define yourself as a christian? I am a mother, much like yourself. I have children that I love very much, I chose to have them, they were wanted. I breastfed all of them, I spent 5 wonderful years of my life either breastfeeding or pregnant. I have love for children, especially mine.
angelic6465 1 year ago
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I found this statistic to be extremely ironic. 8% of women who have late term abortions stated that they waited so long because someone pro-life actually caused some women to wait far longer in her pregnancy to terminate her pregnancy.
angelic6465 1 year ago
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Can you believe this statistic? 8% of women who have late term abortions stated that they waited so long because someone (pro-life?) pressured her not to have an abortion and it actually caused some women to wait far longer in her pregnancy to terminate her pregnancy. Oh the Irony.
angelic6465 1 year ago
In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:
71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
angelic6465 1 year ago
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angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 In a survey taken in the first few weeks after the abortion, between 40 and 60 percent of women questioned reported negative reactions. Within 8 weeks after their abortions, 55% expressed guilt and 31% had regrets about their decision
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Oh look, I will tell you where I got my information too! It amazaing me you have no response to abortion procedures. Are you so inhumane that reading a baby being cut does nothing. Again, you justify crime with crime. Committing a wrong in the name of another wrong. Two different problems. Do we go killing drunk driver for killing innocent people. Same logic. You want to stop the problem, I am going to give you the solution. Morality.......
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@angelic6465 without Morality, there is Crime, Abortion. sexual assult. God gave us life. If you choose to believe or not. Christ is needed, but you turn from his ways. Do you believe Christ would want abortions? Not religious look-with abortion comes the lack of accountability. Woman are for sex, not love an marriage. The insitution of family has been ruined. There are no winners in an aborted baby. It does take its toll on your soul. I dont believe you ever counseled a woman....
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@angelic6465 post abortion. Parenting..please talk to your daughter. Her friends may find themselves in the E.R due to suicide or O.Ding. Just because a 15 year is afraid to tell mom or dad, doesn't mean mom and dad dont love and want to help. A parent deserves to know and I only hope you would want to know, not have someone keep this from you. Dont justify it with one bad parent. Most of us want to be there for our kids. The results of your ideals are going around you. Look-then change!
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone I have to admit that although I enjoyed the intellectual debate and regret that I do not have time to pursue it any further. I have started classes again and have a full course load @13 credits and a part time job working for a professor at my college. I am only two semesters away from my degree in Social Work . Although it is obvious that neither of us will change the other's mind, we've each given the other food for thought. Good luck with your passion in life.
angelic6465 1 year ago
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other
angelic6465 1 year ago
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To all youtume users: Please watch the youtube video Anti-Abortion Measures Can Hurt ALL Pregnant Women. You can judge for yourself how anti-abortion laws can hurt all of us, when our rights are taken from us.
angelic6465 1 year ago
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Please watch the youtube video Anti-Abortion Measures Can Hurt ALL Pregnant Women. You can judge for yourself how anti-abortion laws can hurt all of us, when our rights are taken from us.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@the motleyone "Perhaps you would of thought a little bit more before sleeping with someone". THESE ARE YOUR WORDS. Do you really think all women have that choice? Here are a few more facts for you regarding just how many women don't get the choice of deciding to have sex. Pregnancy is not the "just dessert" a woman has to have for her sexuality.
angelic6465 1 year ago
The Justice Department estimates that one in five women will experience rape or attempted rape during their college years, and that less than five percent of these rapes will be reported. Sexual abuse accounts for 12% of the one million substantiated cases of child abuse and neglect annually (Reece, 2000). Approximately 20% of adult women, and 5-10% of men have been sexually abused as children.
angelic6465 1 year ago
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day.6 Other estimates, such as those generated by the FBI, are much lower because they rely on data from law enforcement agencies. A significant number of crimes are never even reported for reasons that include the victim's feeling that nothing can/will be done.
angelic6465 1 year ago
Sexual assault happens. One in three female soldiers will experience sexual assault while serving in the military, compared to one in six women in the civilian world. The Pentagon released a disturbing report Tuesday on sexual abuse in the military, saying that more than 2,900 sexual assaults were reported last year, up nearly 9 percent from the year before. Nearly two-thirds of the cases involved rape or aggravated assault.
angelic6465 1 year ago
Please watch the youtube video Anti-Abortion Measures Can Hurt ALL Pregnant Women. You can judge for yourself how anti-abortion laws can hurt all of us, when our rights are taken from us.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Abortion hurts all woman and babies. You just dont don't want to admit it. Every day I hear and see the effects on mothers, families, that you just turn a blind eye to in the name of rights. You turn a blind eye to the scarring caused in the uterus, the potential loss of ability to have babies again. There are consequences including death that can happen. But the depression I see, heartbreaking...the loss of life..
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone Do I have to say this again? Abortion carries a 1% risk of complications for women. Pregnancy, cesarean section and labor and delivery have a FAR greater risk of causing injuries, complications, AND scarring for women.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 JUST SO EVERYBODY IS CLEAR WHAT YOU ARE OKAY WITH. I WILL EXPLAIN EACH ABORTION SO WOMAN KNOW..
Suction Aspiration/Vacuum Curettage: A powerful suction tube with a sharp cutting edge is inserted into the womb through the dilated cervix. The suction dismembers the body of the developing baby and tears the placenta from the wall of the uterus, sucking the contents into a collection bottle. .
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): Forceps with sharp metal jaws are used to grasp parts of the developing baby, which are then twisted and torn away. This continues until the child’s entire body is removed from the womb. Because the baby’s skull has often hardened to bone by this time, the skull must sometimes be compressed or crushed to facilitate removal.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Partial-Birth Abortion: Used in the fifth and sixth months of pregnancy and sometimes later. tthe abortionist reaches into the uterus, grabs the unborn baby’s leg with forceps and pulls the baby into the birth canal, except for the head, which is deliberately kept just inside the womb (at this point in the abortion the baby is alive). Then the abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a long surgical scissors or another instrument.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone Less than 1% of all abortions in the Untied states and Canada are late tern partial birth abortions, it's usually only preformed when there are serious abnormalities in the fetus. Facts: In 1997, the Guttmacher Institute estimated the number of abortions in the U.S. past 24 weeks to be 0.08%, or approximately 1,032 per year.Also, 13 states prohibit abortion after a certain number of weeks' gestation (usually 24 weeks). As of April 2007, 36 states had bans on late-term abortions,
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 He enlarges the wound and inserts a catheter (tube), which is connected to a powerful suction machine that sucks the baby’s brains out. The abortionist then withdraws the now-collapsed skull from the uterus.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
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In interesting video on so called pregnancy crisis centers on you tube...
@MsMotleyone Reality Check: Please watch this video on youtube Crisis Pregnancy Centers: A Special Report.
I hope your pregnancy center does not endorse practices such as these?
angelic6465 1 year ago
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@MsMotleyone Reality Check: Please watch this video on youtube Crisis Pregnancy Centers: A Special Report.
I hope your pregnancy center does not endorse unethical practices such as these?
If so, than I am very disappointed, I thought that you were there to HELP women, who have made the decision to stay pregnant and have a child. Not just to PREVENT women from making that choice for themselved.
angelic6465 1 year ago
9 Reasons why abortion is legal.
Please read and consider.
At the most basic level, the abortion issue is not really about abortion. It is about the value of women in society.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 And before you make that decision. Go see your baby on an ultrasound and ask in full how an abortion takes place. Talk about adoption..
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
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angelic6465 1 year ago
1. Laws against abortion kill women.
To prohibit abortions does not stop them. When women feel it is absolutely necessary, they will choose to have abortions--even in secret, without medical care, in dangerous circumstances. In the two decades before abortion was legal in the U.S., it's been estimated that nearly 1 million women per year sought out illegal abortions. Thousands died. Tens of thousands were mutilated. All were forced to behave as if they were criminals.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Laws for abortion kill babies. How has people like angelic6465 feel that killing anything can be a rational answer to a problem. Has society as a whole sunk so low that Planned Parenthood is allowed to decieve our children without our knowledge. Let us not hide the fact that legalized abortions single handedly destroyed the value of life, and the value of woman. If you every find yourself in need of the truth. Contact Carenet. Talk to your parents.your pastor..with love 4 life!
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone You are such a blatant progagandist! Do you ever see ads where Planned Parenhood is advertising for abortions? Are there commercials? Women go to planned parenthood for many reasons other than abortions. Mainly... to prevent unwanted pregnancies. That accounts for 90% of what they do. They also provide free or low cost birth control, reproductive health care, std testing, Gynecology, ACCURATE pregnancy tests (unlike some pro-life "pregnancy" centers). Pap Smears etc.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone Fetuses are not legally or scientifically defined as "babies". They are not considered babies until after they are born.
I don't understand why you are so full of rabid hatred. How can you define yourself as a christian? I am a mother, much like yourself. I have children that I love very much, I chose to have them, they were wanted. I breastfed all of them, I spent 5 wonderful years of my life either breastfeeding or pregnant. I have love for humanity, not hatred.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 You have the hatred. I am just countering your lies and misinformation so some 15 year old girl knows that it is life they carry and people are available to support them during and after child birth. Not people like you who offer scissors and table and say, I am done with you. If you have love for humanity, respect the life inside of the human.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
2. Legal abortions protect women's health.
Legal abortion not only protects women's lives, it also protects their health. For tens of thousands of women with heart disease, kidney disease, severe hypertension, sickle-cell anemia and severe diabetes and other illnesses that can be life-threatening, the availability of legal abortion has helped avert serious medical complications that could have resulted from childbirth.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Legal abotions protect women's and mens consequence for there actions. It allows our children to have surgical procedure without there parents knowledge. Is a 15 year old girl going to say she has a blood clotting problem before her abortion. The availability of C-Sections always outweigh the abortion. This is a pathetic excuse always used to hide the fact that it is about not wanting to be accountable for our bodies and actions we take.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
@MsMotleyone C-sections are NOT safer for the woman, an open abdominal incision, . In 2000, the mortality rate for Caesareans in the United States were 20 per 1,000,000. The UK National Health Service gives the risk of death for the mother as three times that of a vaginal birth,
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 That a lie...if the woman "life" is in danger the safest and quickest way to help her is a C-Section. Period. The mortality rate for babies during abortion is 100%...
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
Before legal abortion, such women's choices were limited to dangerous illegal abortion or dangerous childbirth.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 and a hell alot less of them took place and we are here to talk about it because our mothers did not throw us away. There was a larger value placed on sex and marriage. Now society has come to be self serving and indulging, sex is just for pleasure. Is society really better today than in the 50's?? I dont believe so..
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
3. A woman is more than a fetus.
There's an argument these days that a fetus is a "person" that is "indistinguishable from the rest of us," and that it deserves rights equal to women's. On this question, there is a tremendous spectrum of religious, philosophical, scientific and medical opinion. It's been argued for centuries
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 A fetus is a baby. Life has been given, a heart is beating, the baby can feel pain and deserves more than a pair of scissor to the back of the head!! What the procedure of the partial birth abortion, if you okay with it you are one seriously sick individual.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
Fortunately, our society has recognized that each woman must be able to make this decision, based on her own conscience. To impose a law defining a fetus as a "person," granting it rights equal to or superior to a woman's--a thinking, feeling, conscious human being--is arrogant and absurd. It only serves to diminish women.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Yet, life is formed. If you want woman to make a decision on her own conscience. Please explain each abortion procedure and how it is done. What is there to hide...Right ahh....that right. You refused to do that too. Hmm ..wonder why?? Oh yeah, because when looking at your baby on an ultrasound and seeing it being cut into pieces until the heart stops would cause the woman to make a better decision.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
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angelic6465 1 year ago
4. Being a mother is just one option for women.
Many hard battles have been fought to win political and economic equality for women. These gains will not be worth much if reproductive choice is denied. To be able to choose a safe, legal abortion makes many other options possible. Otherwise an accident or a rape can end a woman's economic and personal freedom.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 Every person can control there reproduction. Abortion just allow them not to face the consequence of there decision. Abortion allows men to devalue woman and woman to devalue what sex is about. What family is about and what marriage is about. Everyone would think alot more about who the lie with if the consequences would to be upheld.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
5. Outlawing abortion is discriminatory.
Anti-abortion laws discriminate against low-income women, who are driven to dangerous self-induced or back-alley abortions. That is all they can afford. But the rich can travel wherever necessary to obtain a safe abortion.
angelic6465 1 year ago
@angelic6465 So is telling woman who has enough love and money to raise a child. Explain an abortion procedure and what the baby feels and the long term effects are on woman. Dont hide the truth.
MsMotleyone 1 year ago
6. Compulsory pregnancy laws are incompatible with a free society.
If there is any matter which is personal and private, then pregnancy is it. There can be no more extreme invasion of privacy than requiring a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. If government is permitted to compel a woman to bear a child, where will government stop? The concept is morally repugnant. It violates traditional American ideas of individual rights and freedoms.
angelic6465 1 year ago