as we say in England 'he (lance) doesn't like the away game too much'.....Greg handling himself with the same dignity that made him in my opinion one of the ALL-TIME-GREATS. lance = as ever, full of sh*t
Greg brings up some valid points but he presents them as if they are laws, as if they are facts and no further research can disprove them. That is not fair to science and it's not fair to athletes, but he does have valid points. Lance was extremely patient and level headed in this situation and Greg is the one that wouldn't let it go, that shows the level of professionalism between these two individuals.
So...in conclusion of all this....That EPO should sell like hot cakes! Where can I get me some of that NIKE EPO? Just Juice it. Put it in soft drinks and that's you LIVESTRONG campaign! How about FRS mixed with EPO? Good stuff! How to get the advert slogan on the side of a bus though? Hmm. Cancer weeds out the weak...it is a genetic cell mutation designed to get rid of the inferior...not harsh just true...many family members dies from it.
Armstrongs captain America in cycling and always will be. You had your shine in the light Lemond and i'm a big fan, but Lance is number one with or without drugs because everyone on the podium with him those 7 years were doping too.
@u368 So why did all those individuals that took "less" dope get caught and the one person that took the most never get caught? The french liked him that much? lol. He took sooo much that it was undetectable? lol He payed the people that tested him to keep their mouth shut? Or just simply we'll stay with the famous quote.. "you cant win the tour de france without dope"? All these theories are funny and ridiculous.
@wwtdd1 It's simple, in 1999 there was no EPO test, then later EPO tests were not able to catch all kind of EPO, by microdosing EPo it was possible to beat testing. Dr Del Moral, doctor of Lance team, sent many times urine samples to test them, against the rules, by corrupted WADA lab of Spain.
Why did Lance give secretly money to UCI ? Difficult not to see corruption there with the difference of the alleged facts between Lance and UCI !
@u368 lol so youre saying that they didnt test for epo in 99, a year after the tour the whole festina team and other individual riders from different teams got kicked out from using EPO and other substances in 98 witch they called the tour that year "the tour of dope"? They were on everyones ass in 99 specially since what happen the year before.
@wwtdd1 Not surprise here! In 1999, EPO test didn't exist. No one had been able to creat one.
So samples of 1999 TDF were not tested for EPO that year.
It's only in 2004-2005 that, for scientific purposes, LNDD used the remaining B samples of 1998 and 1999 TDF to validate the new version of their EPO test.
Can I just say lance is like x10 greater than lemond. And you say lemond used all of that cycling gear first. So what if he hadn't the next year someone else would have!
@TheLukesstudio think he talks a lot of sense in my opinion. He quite obviously cares about cleaning up the sport and was met with silence and litigation and nastiness. There's plenty of smoke when it comes to lance armstrong and doping but nothing concrete as yet, and plenty of accusers (hamilton,landis,hincapie) and his association with dodgy italian drug dealing doctors. They didn't call EPO "the clear" for nothing
@dachicagoan the way i see it is lance went through chimo and other drugs to beat cancer why would he want to put another drug in his body after that i could be wrong like but didnt he make cycling more popular ?? and what makes a cyclist great so ?? your basically saying that cavendish isnt the greatest sprinter around or barcelona arent the greatest soccer team around so they are known as the best today because they are WINNING
@TheLukesstudio My point is that you don't have to be a winning all the time to be great. Although LeMond didn't win 7 tours, he did a lot more for the sport than Lance ever did. Lemond paved the way for American cycling & changed the sport. In cycling, Lemond was the first to use heart rate monitors, Oakley sunglasses, aerodynamic handlebars, clipless pedals & using light-weight metal frames. People who know about cycling know that he gave Hinault the 85' tour and could have easily won 87 & 88
@dachicagoan The best cyclist ever to come out of the USA is Lance, the chicken shit you referred to packed his bags and went home when the competition got to tough. If they were all doping like he said he should have exposed it but he didn't just George Hicape. Sore l;osers and has beens just move on.
@bampie1 You must not know much about cycling, LeMond retired cycling mostly because of a rare mitochondrial illness that he still has. Lance is a good cyclist, I just have a hard time believing he didn't dope since he could barely finish a tour in the 90s and then comes back to drop Pantani(mountain king) like a toddler and beat David Millar (time trial king) against the clock. He beat Ullrich, Beloki, Zulle, Jalabert, Virenque easily and a lot of them admitted or were caught doping. Fishy? yes
@dachicagoan He lost a lot of weight but kept his power output making him an excellent climber and he could already TT. And dont forget he tailored his entire season around the tour like none other.
@Manik2Magik weight has nothing to do with it. Why was Ullrich still able to be a top contender even after he gained 20lbs? He's proof that losing some mass doesn't matter at all. Lance could already time trial? if he was so good at time trialing why did Indurain pass him as if he was still? look up "Indurain vs. Armstrong". It's just amazing trying to debate cycling with people that know nothing of the sport.
@dachicagoan ulrich was known to have freakish genetics where hed struggle not to get dropped at the begginning of a stage race and by the end be visually leaner and dropping GC riders left and right.
@saberfan123 of course not, he is NIKE"S poster boy. Armstrong is worth too much money to have been "caught!" Lemond is the Legend of USA, thats what most true cycling followers feel from Europe
im 38 and when i came into the sport lemond had come 2nd in tdf 1985...i was 12 then...and what he says is right..baseline is very important..when armstrong was winning tours he was generating a huge income..this income went on to feed familes and support people..jobs you name it...now that he isnt doing any of that it will look better to tear him down...if it comes between armstong and UCI they will turn thier back on him..lance is a disgrace, fignon and lemond were my idols.
What has to be accepted here is that everybody dopes and it's not a bad thing to do so. Ultimately, drugs make you better and stronger. In time, the use of enhancing drugs be become commonplace and essential for survival.
@Charlienmeg Given the stakes in terms of financial and personal stakes, it must be accepted that there is cheating, there will be cheating, and there will be a myriad of evasions to ensure that it is not detected. Given this truth, why fight it? Permit these methods but demand full disclosure of those methods. If everything is on the table, then everyone will be honest about their actions.
@bearmare Why fight it? Would you truly want to watch a "sport" knowing that everyone participating was only doing so because drugs were making them capable? I wouldn't - that's not sport. You say everybody dopes - wrong, not everybody dopes at all and most don't want to dope and that's how it can't be even remotely fair to say "let them use drugs". So long as there are riders who refuse to dope then it's still a sport worth watching - when everyone's doping, what sport?
@Charlienmeg You can't fight it because the stakes for winning are too great. What are you going to do? Only allow those under 18 in the TDF because they are not good enough yet? The reality is that drug enhancement is part of sport at this level. All kinds of dietary enhancements are used in the TDF and many other sports, including the use of steroids for the treatment of injuries -- should this be disallowed as well? Drugs are part of sport. Full disclosure is the only route.
@bearmare The reality IS that drug enhancement is part of all sport - agreed. However, by giving cart blanche to any and every sportsperson to dope to enable an advantage takes away from the very purpose they would be doing it - and that is sport. Without drug control there would not BE a sport. It wouldn't exist. It would just be a bunch of doped up muscle bound people showing who can stick more in their body to enhance performance. Who would watch it? Would you? Because I certainly wouldn't.
@Charlienmeg Then you may as well tell F1 racing to give up their wing cars and 1000 hp engines. But even F1 has rules, where no team can have an advantage unless all the teams can share the same advantage. The same should be applied to all sports where performance enhancing drugs are not only the norm in competition, but encouraged within a certain group of riders. And I would watch cycling even they are doped up, because the performance of the riders would improve to stellar levels.
@bearmare You are completely missing the point I'm trying to make. I've had the argument about F1 for years anyway that the best car wins, not the best driver (or rarely at least) - it's now a parade anyway. But so long as there are riders in cycling who don't resort to doping to win, then it's still a sport worth watching and if those who do dope get caught and banned, then good. That's as it should be. But if they all start doping to win, then who is going to watch? Just you it seems.
@bearmare contd.. and you say "riders would improve to stellar levels". No they wouldn't. That's like saying the woman with the biggest plastic tits looks best. It would all be completely fake - give me the woman with the natural breasts any day. And give me the rider who does it without enhancement and with pure passion and determination any day too. So long as we have those who refuse to dope, we have a sport - if it goes your way then it should just stop. It's not a sport, it's a big fat lie.
@Charlienmeg There are women whose bodies have improved considerably thanks to implants. But again it's not the implant: it's who installs it, the chose made in regard to the size of the implant, etc. Often, natural breasts are, over time, not ideal. That's there are instances where enhancement helps improve a woman's look, or in the case of cycling, one's performance. But in the same light, even enhancement is not going to make a bad cyclist great. One still must start with a good cyclist.
@bearmare Sorry - I'm not going to carry on with this. You'll come up with any idiotic argument to condone cheating and that's the most ridiculous analagy yet. Cheating is cheating - there is NO excuse and NO reason other than to cheat - if I were you I'd give up watching sports as you are blatantly not a sports fan.
@Charlienmeg What you don't get is that a sport cannot hope to police itself if the forces aligned against so called drug-free sport and so powerful and better prepared than the officials. So, the best approach, as in any endeavour, is full-disclosure. Then and only then can the officiating bodies know what is really going on. Like or not, this is the future of sport and there is no stopping it. This is the reality of sport and, like it or not, it has always been its reality.
@Charlienmeg What you have to accept is that cheating or enhanced performance by drugs or other substantances is the norm in sport. There is not turning back. And with any technology, it's important to determine how one can adapt to its presence. The only effective way is full-disclosure, where all reveal what they are doing. It's the best way to knowing what's going on and who is doing what. In the end, all sport will be stronger for it.
@bearmare Of course I don't have to accept it. I wouldn't accept it - I simply wouldn't watch or partake in a sport that was rife in cheating - it's that simple. Technology is technology - it's progress - but making it legal to pump your body full of stimulants is simply not acceptable and why should it be? You wouldn't have people competing against people - you may as well replace them with robots. The only way to get away from this is to carry on testing but more so than they already do.
iIts sad...really it is...this era, the lies, the greed...I used to LOVE Lance Armstrong...now in my heart of hearts I know he's a liar and it is gonna come out. Everybody who lies makes a mistake somewhere and gets found out. The age of innocence is over...Take the blinders OFF!
Armstrong's return will be his undoing. Had he not come back, he'd still have all his credibility, and wouldn't have the Feds looking for clues. Go to VeloNews and read Neal Rogers article dated today, 2/16/2011. Neal was seated beside LeMond, to his right.
We should read the Floyd Landis and Paul Kimmage(?) interview. It is very interesting. I think Lance might not have been clean (does not change the fact he was my boyhood hero)
Lance a doper?No... For seven Years, during the course of Lance Armstrong's tour de france victories, he has been tested all throughout those years and never showed positive for drug use.(no pun intended). Their is no way that through SEVEN YEARS of being constantly tested for drug use, that any accusations and allegations of Lance using drugs is obscured. No one is able to hide drug use for seven years, or one year for that matter. Lance did not dope, their is something called "liveSTRONG"
if someone cannot hide drug use for one year, how do you explain the Festina team? Everyone (but one) admitted to doping and none of them ever tested positive once.
@kingdc72 are you an idiot, the Festina team car was found to be carrying drugs including EPO. They were caught red handed, thats why they admitted it. ps i believe Armstrong has used, just like Riis admitted using winning the 96 tour. Just like Pantani used EPO. The sport is dirty...
@11Rossifumi it´s very disturbing and hard to believe, that lance would have been involved in using performance drugs and that he would have run a secret scheme, with doctors, drug testers, on a payroll, to cover up his tracks or whatever..I hope all this shit doesn´t turn out to be true..what a disapointment and embarassment that would be for lance and sport.
@extradutyfelt1 It would be hard to believe that Lance didn't dope with all his doping affairs, the legal testimonies of many people attesting of his doping, his unbelievable hematocrit value at the end of his TDF, his unability to climb on his first TDF, his miraculous transformation similar to Riis ( a confessed EPO user who became a TDF after EPO using).
Miracle don't exist, cheating and doping for sure are!
@hghepo well, I imagine there must be many pro athletes out there, using steroids, but lance being a cancer survivor and icon, it would be that much more dissapointing, if he did in fact use drugs, blood transfusions and so forth, to win..maybe some day, we will know the full fact´s of the matter..
@extradutyfelt1 We already know that Lance doped : EPO found in 6+2 of his 1999 TDF samples,recording of too much high hematocrit level on all of his TDF , actovegin, syringes,.. all of this lead to an undoubtly clear doping program. The last throw being his link with Dr Ferrari , a well known blood doping doctor, Mance tried to hide that relation but Walsh discovered it... and then Lance said it was for attempting an hour WR.
@hghepo I honestly, find it suspicious and disturbing, that his former team mates and staff, saying he did dope..I think that, this should be investigated more and until their is full disclosure on the issue, I personally, will remain neutral.
@extradutyfelt1 I have to add that Lance never sued L'Equipe when they printed his doping story on front page, despite France having one of the strongest anti-defamation laws. If L'Equipe had no proof to support their words, Lance could have won a lot of money , for him or his foundation... Do you believe that cancer fight does'nt need money?
@hghepo I don´t think lance has to sue anyone, in order to raise money for cancer..he´s already raised millions, for cancer..as for the doping issue, I really believe in karma, if you have done something bad/wrong in life, it will come back, to bite you one day..hopefully, the naked truth will come out, someday..
everyone has been cheating just stop getting on the news stating that i'm not a cheat we aren't that dumb they aren't cracking down on drug use in the NFL , NHL or baseball, track and field and tennis look at the Williams are those guys or what ??
all of the cyclist are going super fast and for three weeks and to end doing a time trial averaging 30 pulse mph no way. i don't think any of them are clean or ever will be we all want to see humans go faster and faster lets get on to genetics.
@u368 there will ALWAYS be people like you who criticize other peoples success and outstanding performance. All I can say is how much I disagree with your statement. I personally believe that Lance Armstrong has gone through too much in life that makes him ever want to dope. How dare you ever criticize someone with so much adversity and hope.
@trevortheterrorist How dare you ever criticize someone who is speaking the truth?
Lance doped because he was not gifted like Lemond, he was lucky like half of the people who espaced death with a such cancer, he should have thanked his doctors and the researchers who work really hard to fight diseases.
@u368 Shame on you I hope you or none of your family have to face the curse that is cancer. If you ever had too you would never use that language. I lost my wife that's what qualifies my to speak about cancer. Who have you lost probably no one. What a total ignorant dickhead, Lance has done more to raise moey for cancer than anyone. What does Lance and Greg have in common. They both one the Tour and they have never failed a drugs test, but Lance is the cheat.
@u368 Well if you just consider that sort of talk as just a metaphor don't feel to sad if that metaphor kills your wife, daughter and mother because if it does with your attitude it will be just what you deserve. It is so easy to say you know of people who were affected by the disease but if people really close to have been murdered by the diease you would not have such an easy attitude to it. You have not and that's the truth you cannot comprehend what cancer is so don't use the term again
In America you are either a hero or a loser. Bur life is not that simple. For you, Lance is just the hero. What about Carl Lewis, Florence Griffith-Joyner, Floyd Landis? Come on guys, these were all heros in your eyes and what finally happened to them. Lance is just one of them. If you want any proof, there are enough. Just read the books if you can read. Besides, Lance's urin sample from the Tour de France was positive. Your american hero will fall deep and you will think about Greg again.
Lads, EPO is not about how much extra watts is produced, it's a blood booster meaning its effects are that you have that extra stamina when you need it, you don't tire on climbs when everybody else is fading away, you recover much quicker etc. etc.
Anobolic steroids WILL increase watts because they stimulate artificial muscle growth...
Greg LeMond was and is still a true hero and Lance Armstrong is the biggest cheater in the history of cycling. Greg, come to switzerland, we know the truth. In the states they didn't want to believe that armstrong is just a liar. I have to laugh out loud when i read "achieved over weaker riders. Sorry, but most americans are simply too stupid to think.
@EastCH What evidence do you have? Your statement that Americans don't know how to think is..what? Nationalistic? Arrogant? Fallacious? Point me at some evidence.
@EastCH, I too laughed out loud, when LeMond stated EPO can produce a 30% increase in performance. LOLOLOLOL -- (Oh excuse me, I just love a good comedy line when I hear one!) . Particularly when I did the same drug myself for a couple of months & didn't witness a single % increase in my power output.
He’s been bested & ousted from his perch as the best cyclist ever to come from America - he needs to deal with it.
@u368, EPO in no way results in a 30% increase in performance for a well rounded, trained cyclist. If I'm putting out 400watts over 1 hour, in no way is EPO going to have me averaging 520watts for the same hour. Not in a MILLION years, that is a comical %. I just couldn't buffer the lactic acid efficiently enough at 520watts (something which EPO is not known to do, buffer)
I'm not saying Armstrong was 100% clean BTW. He was within WADA regulations with other juice/drugs that were legal.
@vasgeorge Lance is the biggest cheater in the histroy of cycling. He was protected by the UCI through his whole career. Greg is the one we love in europe and specially in switzerland because he didn't cheat and came back as a true hero after his shooting accident and won the Tour de Frace without Epo. But what can I expect from a Greek whose nation cheated the European Union which finally had to save your asses. Greek=Lance Armstrong, European Union=UCI, wanker!!!
@EastCH Hey douche canoe......i prefer publicly flogging dipshits like yourself....like I give a mm of shit what a euro thinks...seriously...go fuck yourself and your pathetic soccer playing lame ass genocidal area of the world
Greg LeMond's reason for accusing Armstrong? Simple: Seven is more than three.
Now that's a truth I can handle.
Another truth?. Landis accused practically all of America's greatest cyclists including George Hincapie of doping, but you don't hear LeMond tooting that horn because George wasn't more successful in the Tour than LeMond.
Armstrong and Lemond both doped, people just have to realize that doping is the most important aspect in professional cycling and doping is how you become and thrive as a professional
@finnrambo1, Greg LeMond's reason for accusing Armstrong? Simple: Seven is more than three.
Now that's a truth I can handle.
Another truth?. Landis accused practically all of America's greatest cyclists including George Hincapie of doping, but you don't hear LeMond tooting that horn because George wasn't more successful in the Tour than LeMond.
if anyone should be in question its LeMond.Look at his past training threw his peak yrs.He would take winter off and get chunky then within a months time he is peaking?Dope was rampent in his time,there are records that still havent been beat.Time trails that still hold today.Greg is a poor sport that got taken advantage of by his team mate and now hates the sport and the world like a little child who cant have its toy.Be a man Greg and just except the fact ur not the all time american cyclist
Apparently not. Because it's a two way gravy train. Armstrong wins and makes money. The MSM uses him and makes money. Both know that without the other, many will say who gives a **** about cycling?
It's the Tiger Woods Theory. Without Tiger in the PGA, would any sane person waste their time watching THAT? Therefore, in exchange for profit, we'll let Tiger and Lance rule their sports. And if you're a competitor, you'd better not piss them off.
What's the underlying factor here? Money and power.
If doping is happening, teams just want to keep it quiet. Armstrong thinks that just by winning the Tour 7 times he can do and say anything he damn well pleases. Why? Because he has his "reputation" to consider.
Actually, it's more than that. It's endorsements and power. Does it bother anybody than 1 person has this much power in his sport?
When was Armstrong found guilty by a court? Oh let me guess, you're the judge and jury! If not, keep your opinions to yourself. He's done more for the sport and cancer vivtims than anyone else. And you sit there and say he's guilty. Man can you message me all your documents and all of Armstrong's dirty test results? You cant, there are none.
Why don't they just ALLOW EPO in pro-cycling? At least then, everyone would be on a level playing field. There is so much distrust among all parties involved, so much political b.s. This person blaming that person...bla bla bla. Cycling is a very cool sport, but is becoming a joke. It's like a bad soap opera.
@jbilly24 Because people would die of EPO overdose... it's easier to ban a drug than to permit a minimun use.
Other pro sports (football, MBA, tennis, ...) are using more PED than cycling. Hopefully Italians, French, and Germans are doing a great job to fight doping and the corrupted UCI
VO2 max has nothing to do with performance. My VO2 max is higher than most of my team mates but they have better power to weight and they can beat me on any given day. I understand if somone is blood doping yes there levels will change as Greg pointed out. But if the levels of a rider changes the regular tests will still catch it due to levels of red blood cells in a bood test.
Of course Greg is right, and he scared the dopers like Armstrong. By his method an average naturel rider like Pharmstrong will never be able tp justify his chemical performances of his TDF.
@hghepo Of course Lance dopes...but you don't thing for one minute that Lemond didn't dope as well? Part of professional cycling is doping. People need to get over it.
Fuck Lance Armstrong he is cheater. A cocky piece of shit that thinks he has won. But mark my words once this piece of shit retires it will come out. I used PEDS. And what will his supporters say the same old shit. Everyone does it.. Lance Armstrong biggest cheat ever!!!!!
yawn. tired readin all the johny come latlety comments. blablabla, your comments are all shit, u know nothing about our sport, Lemonds points are valid and well thought. LA dismissed them as its to close to the bone/truth! Paddy Mc Quaid may not do as much as Hien did to protect LA. Intresting devlopments this summer could happen!
Yes it is a bit complicated but Lemond is saying that the VO2 figures for everyrider is mainly constant, he says scientific evidence shows that in a ridewrs career this does not change, and a simple test will give a read out on this and if it is way off the riders norm then that is proof of something dodgey going on. But Lance is not giving out any positive response, as maybe he should? then when the doctor there tries to discuss with Lemond Arnstrong appears to override the doctor,
Lances approach to Lemond should have been hey Greg a great idea lets do that test and catch all the cheaters...but no he said no such thing, just changes the subject, really wierd for a clean rider
dude, armstrong had brain and lung cancer, and rode with litery half a lung, if thats not doing it, well, that is doing it the hard way, that is doing it the hardest way that it has ever been done
@assman12354 LOL I can see that you are not on my wavelength at all and this thread here is called the "All american Armstrong / cancer appreciation society" it seems Lance's cancer is clouding the cycling judgements. oh well one day it will all come out in the wash.
I don't understand what you gain by not liking armstrong? I mean you don't have to, it really makes no differance to me, but it sounds as though you get something from it,what is it in life that makes you happier to go out and put people down who like armstrong and why does it make you happier to put down armstrong himself?
Because Armstrong cheated, cheated other contenders, cheated fans, threatened reporters who wanted to speak of his doping, threatened riders like Bassons, Simeoni, forced Motorola riders to dope too,...
Lance set up a record on ITT because of aerobar and wind. He didn't win by a big gap... or all others were doped too.
We know that EPO gives a huge advantage. How did Lance to beat all the EPO dopers who shared podium and top ten with him? How clean was he to beat Pantani, Ullrich, Virenque, Vino, Hamilton, Valverde or Landis?
He doesnt have to prove anything. Winning the tour is prrof of hard work and success in itself. You should prove to me that your not some pissy little shithead who doesnt get dropped on the ride out.
@Seanobb You have proven my point! Greg has the same proof that Lance does when it comes to doping. He competed, won, and passed all of the doping controls just like Greg. So, in your own words "winning the tour is proof of hard work and success in itself". Therefore Greg should get over his pathological jealousy of Lance and move on. Greg is the world's biggest sour grapes, cry baby.
As for whether I get dropped on the ride out. Even though it does not happen often. It is irrelevant.
Greg LeMond's average speed in the time trial, 54.545 km/h, was the fastest in Tour de France stage history; since then, only the 1994 prologue has been faster.[1
On a boat anchor with aero bars? What proof does he have that he was clean? Many others were doping at this time. Testing was very easy to beat back then.
Clearly he could have been using performance enhancing substances.
@drewp66 Mind you Lemond was heavily scorned at those times as he did not compete too much in the rest of the season saving it for the tour Thats why he wasa always up there during the tour, but the classics etc he showed nothing
i feel bad for lemond, he was a guy i looked up to when i started out, now he's this guy who's just doing anything he can for attention, lemond would be ten times cooler if he would join lances fight against cancer then what he's doing now
@assman12354 Lemond when he was winning was to me an arrogant smirky yank, but now i have a big admiration for him, to stand up and be heard, a true Gent, while Armstrong is just......a thug
what is gentile about what he's been saying, to tear down someone who is doing so much for cancer reserch and has created a greater life style for a huge number of people, besides, lemond seems like he's just trying to get attention for himself, everyones forgeting he won 3 when armstrong has won 7 and got a 3rd, he's trying to prove he's better than lance in any way he can, and its totaling backfiring,
@assman12354 Greg is saying what you said in your reply..no one is capable of winning 7...unless??? also Lemond will ALWAYS be a better rider than Armstrong....as he did it in europe being an outsider and doing it the hard way
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@ Wellbrain,
guess it is useless to discuss with someone like you, but again: Get a little bit more in the material and know your facts. There was a higher variety, but because the perfect usage of the substances was not known. Look at the Olympic games in these years and than tell me again, that there was no doping in professional sports. Know your facts...
a riders VO2max doesn't entirely have to do with their results in the sport of cycling. For example, my VO2max was 76 when i raced and Taylor Phinney's is 70. That doesn't mean that i can hop on the track and whoop taylor phinney in the persuit. and for some reason in Lemond's book, my slow 3m 54s 3k is faster then Taylor's record breaking 3m 16s ride. Like Sir Charles would say, "Come on Lemond. That was terrible."
Hallelujah, Hallelujah!. Did everybody hear that?. V02 max/promoting red blood cells isn't the be all, end all to enhancing cycling/athletic performance, fact. Its one area, its one factor, of cycling performance. You can't just take advantage of one area & expect to the Win the Tour, Millar, Riis - esque...
A big factor people leave out is adrenaline. If all of a sudden a rider gets a spike of adrenaline while going up a mountain, it doesn't matter how hard he is breathing, he may just set a new record for that mountain. I've got some awfully big lungs myself and they honestly don't translate into great success, but when i get a spike in adrenaline i see instant results.
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@ WELLBRAN
Don't know, what you are talking about... BUT as a matter of fact, either pain lowering substances, or performance enhancing sustances, or BOTH were taken ALWAYS in cycling.
Its just, that its not only about cycling. You earn so much money with professional sports, that its a result of the system.
We need to question Lemond about his caffeine & sodium bicarbonate overdose usage before the start & during of each stage. Sly little begger. Will he admit too it, of course not. Why not?. All within regulation back in the day.
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@jjmnky You are right, now sport and pro cyclists know how to use chemical products...
Human physiology for sport have been known since the 70's, some small corrections have been done but nothing to explain a 20% margin between riders of 80's and today, especially when the gap was made while EPO became widely used.
When Armstrong made his comeback in '1999, post cancer, he started to lift heavy weights & include it in his training program. He was getting 20%,30%+ stronger than his nearest rivals by hitting the weights over weaker riders who believed in cranking all day would bring them success, not so. There you go hghepo, I have just explained to you how the 20% margin Lance achieved over "weaker" riders. Piorneer.
@Sick3ninVend3tta Weights?!!!! LMAO! You don't know much about bike racing do you? Perhaps a Cat. 4 who buys Carmichael's and other BS programs? Weights don't do squat for producing power on the bike, only add extra weight to carry. And no, core exercises will not give you 20% more power either. Any cycling coach worth his weight knows this. LA's weight training videos are is just to sell his products, just like that Cyclocore guy and many other snake oil salesmen.
@CiachoLover, Weights & core strength don't do squat for producing power on the bike?. Go tell that too Chris Hoy, Victoria Pendleton, Anna Meares, Fabian Cancellara, Shanaze Reade, Armstrong, Gregory Bauge etc etc...
@Sick3nin Yeah, I guess Arnold should have raced bikes then, eh? Those Kenyan marathoners really look like they spend a lot of time in the gym. You're deluding yourself. Gym improves strength (yes, important for match sprints), but has absolutely no bearing on sustained power, i.e. no benefit for a road cyclist. Ask Michael Rasmussen what made the difference... more red blood cells (EPO), not stronger muscles. You LA fanboys embarrass yourselves with your lack of knowledge of basic physiology.
@Sick3ninVend3tta What matters in endurance sports is the ability to push 25 KG for 1 hr (400 W), not 250 KG for 10 seconds. Even Theo Bos (world champ match sprinter) is getting schooled in road race sprints. People like Hoy, Pendleton, Bauge would even survive to contest the sprint in a RR. You've been had by the greatest fraud in cycling and it's just a matter of time.
You said, weights don't do squat for PRODUCING POWER on the bike. WRONG!. Sir Chris Hoy's 2300 watts of power is pretty much down to his overwhelming STRENGTH levels. FACT.
Of course they can't contest a (RR sprint) dummy, there not training for it, they want the ultimate POWER fix, developed just as much in the gym as on the bike. FACT.
@Sick3ninVend3tta "Of course they can't contest a (RR sprint) dummy, there not training for it" Did you just agree with me there? Precisely, training in the gym is NOT training for road racing, and certainly not for a grand tour. That's why a skinny dude on the bike will whip your Sir Hoy's butt in a road race, because it's not about strength. Weaker women routinely beat stronger men in endurance events. It's about oxygen delivery to the muscles. That's why they dope with EPO.
@CiachoLover, No! No! No!... That wasn't the initial argument... YOU SAID........ Weights don't do squat for PRODUCING POWER on the bike. WRONG!.
They produce masses amounts of power as proved by the likes of Chris Hoy & Victoria Pendleton (Queen of the Track) who have produced the GREATEST feats of POWER ever produced on a bicycle via greater strength levels produced in the gym.
@Sick3ninVend3tta The initial argument was that LA got good because of heaving lifting. That's what I was responding to. You introduced the Chris Hoy, etc. red herring argument. Match sprinting (2300W for 5 sec) and grand tour cycling (400W for 1 hr) are 2 different sports even if they both use bicycles. Similarly, Usain Bolt's training will be of no benefit to a marathoner.
The only thing lifting will do is take time away from riding a bike and make you too tired to ride effectively. I'm done.
as we say in England 'he (lance) doesn't like the away game too much'.....Greg handling himself with the same dignity that made him in my opinion one of the ALL-TIME-GREATS. lance = as ever, full of sh*t
tonyomagic 2 months ago
Lemond is the greatest American cyclist, ever. And he is humble.
Thelookoutslookout 2 months ago
@Thelookoutslookout amen brother
tonyomagic 2 months ago
Greg brings up some valid points but he presents them as if they are laws, as if they are facts and no further research can disprove them. That is not fair to science and it's not fair to athletes, but he does have valid points. Lance was extremely patient and level headed in this situation and Greg is the one that wouldn't let it go, that shows the level of professionalism between these two individuals.
babbfamilyidaho 4 months ago
So...in conclusion of all this....That EPO should sell like hot cakes! Where can I get me some of that NIKE EPO? Just Juice it. Put it in soft drinks and that's you LIVESTRONG campaign! How about FRS mixed with EPO? Good stuff! How to get the advert slogan on the side of a bus though? Hmm. Cancer weeds out the weak...it is a genetic cell mutation designed to get rid of the inferior...not harsh just true...many family members dies from it.
sawink 5 months ago
Armstrongs captain America in cycling and always will be. You had your shine in the light Lemond and i'm a big fan, but Lance is number one with or without drugs because everyone on the podium with him those 7 years were doping too.
wwtdd1 5 months ago
@wwtdd1 The only team having big guys like Hincapie winning mountain stages or dropping climbers was Lance's team. For sure their doping was superior.
Difficult to say that they were on a leveled field.
Lance had EPO inside of more than half of his 1999 samples, while just 15% of other samples had. SO Lance used much more EPO than others.
How many riders could afford a plane for blood transportation?
Lance was Al Capone or Madoff, other riders were apples thieves.
u368 5 months ago
@u368 So why did all those individuals that took "less" dope get caught and the one person that took the most never get caught? The french liked him that much? lol. He took sooo much that it was undetectable? lol He payed the people that tested him to keep their mouth shut? Or just simply we'll stay with the famous quote.. "you cant win the tour de france without dope"? All these theories are funny and ridiculous.
wwtdd1 5 months ago
@wwtdd1 It's simple, in 1999 there was no EPO test, then later EPO tests were not able to catch all kind of EPO, by microdosing EPo it was possible to beat testing. Dr Del Moral, doctor of Lance team, sent many times urine samples to test them, against the rules, by corrupted WADA lab of Spain.
Why did Lance give secretly money to UCI ? Difficult not to see corruption there with the difference of the alleged facts between Lance and UCI !
Lance being clean is more ridiculous.
u368 5 months ago
@u368 lol so youre saying that they didnt test for epo in 99, a year after the tour the whole festina team and other individual riders from different teams got kicked out from using EPO and other substances in 98 witch they called the tour that year "the tour of dope"? They were on everyones ass in 99 specially since what happen the year before.
wwtdd1 5 months ago
@wwtdd1 Not surprise here! In 1999, EPO test didn't exist. No one had been able to creat one.
So samples of 1999 TDF were not tested for EPO that year.
It's only in 2004-2005 that, for scientific purposes, LNDD used the remaining B samples of 1998 and 1999 TDF to validate the new version of their EPO test.
u368 5 months ago
Can I just say lance is like x10 greater than lemond. And you say lemond used all of that cycling gear first. So what if he hadn't the next year someone else would have!
harrythethorpeishere 5 months ago
It's obvious Armstrong was taking drugs. When I think of the Tour De France I think of Greg Lemond during his battles against Hinault & Fignon.
tubemelly24 6 months ago 10
@tubemelly24 Most cyclist use peds and im sure lance and Lamond did to.
maaudiosubs 5 months ago
LeMond is still a puto.
tgomez16 6 months ago
le mond is just a jealous old man who cant bare thay he isnt the greatest cyclist to come out of america
TheLukesstudio 6 months ago
@TheLukesstudio think he talks a lot of sense in my opinion. He quite obviously cares about cleaning up the sport and was met with silence and litigation and nastiness. There's plenty of smoke when it comes to lance armstrong and doping but nothing concrete as yet, and plenty of accusers (hamilton,landis,hincapie) and his association with dodgy italian drug dealing doctors. They didn't call EPO "the clear" for nothing
k9pjuice 6 months ago
@TheLukesstudio Why would LeMond be jealous, he IS the best cyclist to come out of the US, the number of wins doesn't mean anyhing.
dachicagoan 6 months ago
@dachicagoan the way i see it is lance went through chimo and other drugs to beat cancer why would he want to put another drug in his body after that i could be wrong like but didnt he make cycling more popular ?? and what makes a cyclist great so ?? your basically saying that cavendish isnt the greatest sprinter around or barcelona arent the greatest soccer team around so they are known as the best today because they are WINNING
TheLukesstudio 6 months ago
@TheLukesstudio My point is that you don't have to be a winning all the time to be great. Although LeMond didn't win 7 tours, he did a lot more for the sport than Lance ever did. Lemond paved the way for American cycling & changed the sport. In cycling, Lemond was the first to use heart rate monitors, Oakley sunglasses, aerodynamic handlebars, clipless pedals & using light-weight metal frames. People who know about cycling know that he gave Hinault the 85' tour and could have easily won 87 & 88
dachicagoan 5 months ago
@dachicagoan The best cyclist ever to come out of the USA is Lance, the chicken shit you referred to packed his bags and went home when the competition got to tough. If they were all doping like he said he should have exposed it but he didn't just George Hicape. Sore l;osers and has beens just move on.
bampie1 5 months ago
@bampie1 You must not know much about cycling, LeMond retired cycling mostly because of a rare mitochondrial illness that he still has. Lance is a good cyclist, I just have a hard time believing he didn't dope since he could barely finish a tour in the 90s and then comes back to drop Pantani(mountain king) like a toddler and beat David Millar (time trial king) against the clock. He beat Ullrich, Beloki, Zulle, Jalabert, Virenque easily and a lot of them admitted or were caught doping. Fishy? yes
dachicagoan 5 months ago
@dachicagoan He lost a lot of weight but kept his power output making him an excellent climber and he could already TT. And dont forget he tailored his entire season around the tour like none other.
Manik2Magik 4 months ago
@Manik2Magik weight has nothing to do with it. Why was Ullrich still able to be a top contender even after he gained 20lbs? He's proof that losing some mass doesn't matter at all. Lance could already time trial? if he was so good at time trialing why did Indurain pass him as if he was still? look up "Indurain vs. Armstrong". It's just amazing trying to debate cycling with people that know nothing of the sport.
dachicagoan 4 months ago
@dachicagoan Yes it is, truly amazing.
Manik2Magik 4 months ago
@dachicagoan ulrich was known to have freakish genetics where hed struggle not to get dropped at the begginning of a stage race and by the end be visually leaner and dropping GC riders left and right.
curtmastor 4 months ago
@dachicagoan dude also had a freaking 92 VO2Max.....I think there some dogs that ran the ididerod that has lower maxes than that lol
curtmastor 4 months ago
Lemond is the tru hero of Europe. and shup up
bunny0919 6 months ago
LeMond acted like a JACKASS!!! Jeeeeez!
TheBojachaka 6 months ago
not a lot of rational discussion going on folks....
jcrabz 6 months ago
@saberfan123: Marion Jones never failed a drugs test either - doesn't mean sh*t. You can rest your case but it's a weak one...
cmrhappy11 6 months ago
20+ year career. 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition. Never a failed test. I rest my case.
saberfan123 7 months ago
@saberfan123 of course not, he is NIKE"S poster boy. Armstrong is worth too much money to have been "caught!" Lemond is the Legend of USA, thats what most true cycling followers feel from Europe
dan32113 6 months ago 5
im 38 and when i came into the sport lemond had come 2nd in tdf 1985...i was 12 then...and what he says is right..baseline is very important..when armstrong was winning tours he was generating a huge income..this income went on to feed familes and support people..jobs you name it...now that he isnt doing any of that it will look better to tear him down...if it comes between armstong and UCI they will turn thier back on him..lance is a disgrace, fignon and lemond were my idols.
sprintbass 7 months ago
What a twat!
readikus 8 months ago
What has to be accepted here is that everybody dopes and it's not a bad thing to do so. Ultimately, drugs make you better and stronger. In time, the use of enhancing drugs be become commonplace and essential for survival.
bearmare 8 months ago
@bearmare So you condone cheating in the race to win then?
Charlienmeg 7 months ago
@Charlienmeg Given the stakes in terms of financial and personal stakes, it must be accepted that there is cheating, there will be cheating, and there will be a myriad of evasions to ensure that it is not detected. Given this truth, why fight it? Permit these methods but demand full disclosure of those methods. If everything is on the table, then everyone will be honest about their actions.
bearmare 7 months ago
@bearmare Why fight it? Would you truly want to watch a "sport" knowing that everyone participating was only doing so because drugs were making them capable? I wouldn't - that's not sport. You say everybody dopes - wrong, not everybody dopes at all and most don't want to dope and that's how it can't be even remotely fair to say "let them use drugs". So long as there are riders who refuse to dope then it's still a sport worth watching - when everyone's doping, what sport?
Charlienmeg 7 months ago
@Charlienmeg You can't fight it because the stakes for winning are too great. What are you going to do? Only allow those under 18 in the TDF because they are not good enough yet? The reality is that drug enhancement is part of sport at this level. All kinds of dietary enhancements are used in the TDF and many other sports, including the use of steroids for the treatment of injuries -- should this be disallowed as well? Drugs are part of sport. Full disclosure is the only route.
bearmare 7 months ago
@bearmare The reality IS that drug enhancement is part of all sport - agreed. However, by giving cart blanche to any and every sportsperson to dope to enable an advantage takes away from the very purpose they would be doing it - and that is sport. Without drug control there would not BE a sport. It wouldn't exist. It would just be a bunch of doped up muscle bound people showing who can stick more in their body to enhance performance. Who would watch it? Would you? Because I certainly wouldn't.
Charlienmeg 7 months ago
@Charlienmeg Then you may as well tell F1 racing to give up their wing cars and 1000 hp engines. But even F1 has rules, where no team can have an advantage unless all the teams can share the same advantage. The same should be applied to all sports where performance enhancing drugs are not only the norm in competition, but encouraged within a certain group of riders. And I would watch cycling even they are doped up, because the performance of the riders would improve to stellar levels.
bearmare 7 months ago
@bearmare You are completely missing the point I'm trying to make. I've had the argument about F1 for years anyway that the best car wins, not the best driver (or rarely at least) - it's now a parade anyway. But so long as there are riders in cycling who don't resort to doping to win, then it's still a sport worth watching and if those who do dope get caught and banned, then good. That's as it should be. But if they all start doping to win, then who is going to watch? Just you it seems.
Charlienmeg 7 months ago
@bearmare contd.. and you say "riders would improve to stellar levels". No they wouldn't. That's like saying the woman with the biggest plastic tits looks best. It would all be completely fake - give me the woman with the natural breasts any day. And give me the rider who does it without enhancement and with pure passion and determination any day too. So long as we have those who refuse to dope, we have a sport - if it goes your way then it should just stop. It's not a sport, it's a big fat lie.
Charlienmeg 7 months ago
@Charlienmeg There are women whose bodies have improved considerably thanks to implants. But again it's not the implant: it's who installs it, the chose made in regard to the size of the implant, etc. Often, natural breasts are, over time, not ideal. That's there are instances where enhancement helps improve a woman's look, or in the case of cycling, one's performance. But in the same light, even enhancement is not going to make a bad cyclist great. One still must start with a good cyclist.
bearmare 7 months ago
@bearmare Sorry - I'm not going to carry on with this. You'll come up with any idiotic argument to condone cheating and that's the most ridiculous analagy yet. Cheating is cheating - there is NO excuse and NO reason other than to cheat - if I were you I'd give up watching sports as you are blatantly not a sports fan.
Charlienmeg 7 months ago
@Charlienmeg What you don't get is that a sport cannot hope to police itself if the forces aligned against so called drug-free sport and so powerful and better prepared than the officials. So, the best approach, as in any endeavour, is full-disclosure. Then and only then can the officiating bodies know what is really going on. Like or not, this is the future of sport and there is no stopping it. This is the reality of sport and, like it or not, it has always been its reality.
bearmare 7 months ago
@Charlienmeg What you have to accept is that cheating or enhanced performance by drugs or other substantances is the norm in sport. There is not turning back. And with any technology, it's important to determine how one can adapt to its presence. The only effective way is full-disclosure, where all reveal what they are doing. It's the best way to knowing what's going on and who is doing what. In the end, all sport will be stronger for it.
bearmare 7 months ago
@bearmare Of course I don't have to accept it. I wouldn't accept it - I simply wouldn't watch or partake in a sport that was rife in cheating - it's that simple. Technology is technology - it's progress - but making it legal to pump your body full of stimulants is simply not acceptable and why should it be? You wouldn't have people competing against people - you may as well replace them with robots. The only way to get away from this is to carry on testing but more so than they already do.
Charlienmeg 7 months ago
iIts sad...really it is...this era, the lies, the greed...I used to LOVE Lance Armstrong...now in my heart of hearts I know he's a liar and it is gonna come out. Everybody who lies makes a mistake somewhere and gets found out. The age of innocence is over...Take the blinders OFF!
videolover61 8 months ago
landis+hamilton+hincapie vs armstrong
teokiatuan2 8 months ago
LA is the greatest.... greatest fraud ever.
oldtwins 8 months ago
Now Lance you look more idiot as usual. Cheater and liar often fall at the end, and that is coming for you.
hellsadore 8 months ago
armstrong is no true champion.....
bebechristophe 9 months ago
oops, spelling!
giblets7 9 months ago
Armstrong comes across as a rather unpleasent bully, doesn't he?
giblets7 9 months ago
Wow, Lance really wants Greg to shut up.
And guys who think that there are actually clean riders winning the tour... Can I get some of what you've been smoking?
57Snowballs 11 months ago
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hiruniuthpala 11 months ago
Armstrong's return will be his undoing. Had he not come back, he'd still have all his credibility, and wouldn't have the Feds looking for clues. Go to VeloNews and read Neal Rogers article dated today, 2/16/2011. Neal was seated beside LeMond, to his right.
aaronjohnmaughan 11 months ago
We should read the Floyd Landis and Paul Kimmage(?) interview. It is very interesting. I think Lance might not have been clean (does not change the fact he was my boyhood hero)
Phaedo7 1 year ago
Lol its safe to say they don't like each other very much.
bigbruce70 1 year ago
Lance a doper?No... For seven Years, during the course of Lance Armstrong's tour de france victories, he has been tested all throughout those years and never showed positive for drug use.(no pun intended). Their is no way that through SEVEN YEARS of being constantly tested for drug use, that any accusations and allegations of Lance using drugs is obscured. No one is able to hide drug use for seven years, or one year for that matter. Lance did not dope, their is something called "liveSTRONG"
11Rossifumi 1 year ago
@11Rossifumi Dream on!
FreddyFredstar 1 year ago
@11Rossifumi
if someone cannot hide drug use for one year, how do you explain the Festina team? Everyone (but one) admitted to doping and none of them ever tested positive once.
kingdc72 1 year ago
@kingdc72 That was in the pre-EPO testing days. Urine tests began in 2001, the Festina affair was in 1998.
YiftertheShifter1 11 months ago
@kingdc72 are you an idiot, the Festina team car was found to be carrying drugs including EPO. They were caught red handed, thats why they admitted it. ps i believe Armstrong has used, just like Riis admitted using winning the 96 tour. Just like Pantani used EPO. The sport is dirty...
dan32113 10 months ago
@11Rossifumi it´s very disturbing and hard to believe, that lance would have been involved in using performance drugs and that he would have run a secret scheme, with doctors, drug testers, on a payroll, to cover up his tracks or whatever..I hope all this shit doesn´t turn out to be true..what a disapointment and embarassment that would be for lance and sport.
extradutyfelt1 4 months ago
@extradutyfelt1 It would be hard to believe that Lance didn't dope with all his doping affairs, the legal testimonies of many people attesting of his doping, his unbelievable hematocrit value at the end of his TDF, his unability to climb on his first TDF, his miraculous transformation similar to Riis ( a confessed EPO user who became a TDF after EPO using).
Miracle don't exist, cheating and doping for sure are!
hghepo 3 months ago
@hghepo well, I imagine there must be many pro athletes out there, using steroids, but lance being a cancer survivor and icon, it would be that much more dissapointing, if he did in fact use drugs, blood transfusions and so forth, to win..maybe some day, we will know the full fact´s of the matter..
extradutyfelt1 3 months ago
@extradutyfelt1 We already know that Lance doped : EPO found in 6+2 of his 1999 TDF samples,recording of too much high hematocrit level on all of his TDF , actovegin, syringes,.. all of this lead to an undoubtly clear doping program. The last throw being his link with Dr Ferrari , a well known blood doping doctor, Mance tried to hide that relation but Walsh discovered it... and then Lance said it was for attempting an hour WR.
hghepo 3 months ago
@hghepo I honestly, find it suspicious and disturbing, that his former team mates and staff, saying he did dope..I think that, this should be investigated more and until their is full disclosure on the issue, I personally, will remain neutral.
extradutyfelt1 3 months ago
@extradutyfelt1 Sure, if you know few about sport, hematocrit and doping, you has better to trust a good source.
But with a bit of knowledge about doping and EPO effect, everyone can see if the Earth is flat or more round shaped!
Lance's transformation from a one day racer unable to climb mountain to TDF winner was similar to Riis' transformation by EPO.
hghepo 3 months ago 2
@extradutyfelt1 I have to add that Lance never sued L'Equipe when they printed his doping story on front page, despite France having one of the strongest anti-defamation laws. If L'Equipe had no proof to support their words, Lance could have won a lot of money , for him or his foundation... Do you believe that cancer fight does'nt need money?
hghepo 3 months ago
@hghepo I don´t think lance has to sue anyone, in order to raise money for cancer..he´s already raised millions, for cancer..as for the doping issue, I really believe in karma, if you have done something bad/wrong in life, it will come back, to bite you one day..hopefully, the naked truth will come out, someday..
extradutyfelt1 3 months ago
everyone has been cheating just stop getting on the news stating that i'm not a cheat we aren't that dumb they aren't cracking down on drug use in the NFL , NHL or baseball, track and field and tennis look at the Williams are those guys or what ??
all of the cyclist are going super fast and for three weeks and to end doing a time trial averaging 30 pulse mph no way. i don't think any of them are clean or ever will be we all want to see humans go faster and faster lets get on to genetics.
jacob6379 1 year ago
The biggest doper was on the platform : the cancer of cycling as it's named by Kimmage !
Proud to see a man like Greg facinf to those cheaters.
u368 1 year ago 9
@u368, Greg is a troll who is behind the modern times of cycling training.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
@u368 there will ALWAYS be people like you who criticize other peoples success and outstanding performance. All I can say is how much I disagree with your statement. I personally believe that Lance Armstrong has gone through too much in life that makes him ever want to dope. How dare you ever criticize someone with so much adversity and hope.
trevortheterrorist 8 months ago
@trevortheterrorist How dare you ever criticize someone who is speaking the truth?
Lance doped because he was not gifted like Lemond, he was lucky like half of the people who espaced death with a such cancer, he should have thanked his doctors and the researchers who work really hard to fight diseases.
u368 7 months ago
@u368 Shame on you I hope you or none of your family have to face the curse that is cancer. If you ever had too you would never use that language. I lost my wife that's what qualifies my to speak about cancer. Who have you lost probably no one. What a total ignorant dickhead, Lance has done more to raise moey for cancer than anyone. What does Lance and Greg have in common. They both one the Tour and they have never failed a drugs test, but Lance is the cheat.
bampie1 5 months ago
@bampie1 Like EVERYONE on Earth, I have friends and family that were killed by cancer.
And yes Armstrong is as bad for cycling as cancer is for our live. That is a metaphor.
u368 5 months ago
@u368 Well if you just consider that sort of talk as just a metaphor don't feel to sad if that metaphor kills your wife, daughter and mother because if it does with your attitude it will be just what you deserve. It is so easy to say you know of people who were affected by the disease but if people really close to have been murdered by the diease you would not have such an easy attitude to it. You have not and that's the truth you cannot comprehend what cancer is so don't use the term again
bampie1 5 months ago
@bampie1 You are right I will just continue to say that Lance is the cancer and the plague of cycling.
Maybe you should open a dictionnary and try to understand what is a metaphor.
u368 5 months ago
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In America you are either a hero or a loser. Bur life is not that simple. For you, Lance is just the hero. What about Carl Lewis, Florence Griffith-Joyner, Floyd Landis? Come on guys, these were all heros in your eyes and what finally happened to them. Lance is just one of them. If you want any proof, there are enough. Just read the books if you can read. Besides, Lance's urin sample from the Tour de France was positive. Your american hero will fall deep and you will think about Greg again.
EastCH 1 year ago
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EastCH 1 year ago
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EastCH 1 year ago
Lads, EPO is not about how much extra watts is produced, it's a blood booster meaning its effects are that you have that extra stamina when you need it, you don't tire on climbs when everybody else is fading away, you recover much quicker etc. etc.
Anobolic steroids WILL increase watts because they stimulate artificial muscle growth...
76macsters 1 year ago
Greg LeMond was and is still a true hero and Lance Armstrong is the biggest cheater in the history of cycling. Greg, come to switzerland, we know the truth. In the states they didn't want to believe that armstrong is just a liar. I have to laugh out loud when i read "achieved over weaker riders. Sorry, but most americans are simply too stupid to think.
EastCH 1 year ago
@EastCH What evidence do you have? Your statement that Americans don't know how to think is..what? Nationalistic? Arrogant? Fallacious? Point me at some evidence.
majinspy 1 year ago
@EastCH, I too laughed out loud, when LeMond stated EPO can produce a 30% increase in performance. LOLOLOLOL -- (Oh excuse me, I just love a good comedy line when I hear one!) . Particularly when I did the same drug myself for a couple of months & didn't witness a single % increase in my power output.
He’s been bested & ousted from his perch as the best cyclist ever to come from America - he needs to deal with it.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
@Sick3ninVend3tta You don't need any drug to increase your power of trolling
Lemond just repeated the conclusions of EPO use on performance that they can be found in many scientific studies.
Should we believe your trolling words or thoses results available on internet?
u368 1 year ago
@u368, EPO in no way results in a 30% increase in performance for a well rounded, trained cyclist. If I'm putting out 400watts over 1 hour, in no way is EPO going to have me averaging 520watts for the same hour. Not in a MILLION years, that is a comical %. I just couldn't buffer the lactic acid efficiently enough at 520watts (something which EPO is not known to do, buffer)
I'm not saying Armstrong was 100% clean BTW. He was within WADA regulations with other juice/drugs that were legal.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
@EastCH you are fucking idiot. Lance is the best cyclist ever you ignorant cunt.
vasgeorge 1 year ago
@vasgeorge Lance is the biggest cheater in the histroy of cycling. He was protected by the UCI through his whole career. Greg is the one we love in europe and specially in switzerland because he didn't cheat and came back as a true hero after his shooting accident and won the Tour de Frace without Epo. But what can I expect from a Greek whose nation cheated the European Union which finally had to save your asses. Greek=Lance Armstrong, European Union=UCI, wanker!!!
EastCH 1 year ago
@EastCH you are such an idiot
vasgeorge 1 year ago
@EastCH like we give a shit
srhggns4au 1 year ago
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EastCH 1 year ago
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@srhggns4au And I don't give a shit about a stupid, uneducated american fool who likes Susan Boyle, haha. What a wanker! you are!!
EastCH 1 year ago
@EastCH, "Greg is the one we love in europe".
Fail.
Lance is also loved in Europe. Prove to me Greg didn't dope?.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
@EastCH Hey douche canoe......i prefer publicly flogging dipshits like yourself....like I give a mm of shit what a euro thinks...seriously...go fuck yourself and your pathetic soccer playing lame ass genocidal area of the world
srhggns4au 1 year ago
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EastCH 1 year ago
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Greg LeMond's reason for accusing Armstrong? Simple: Seven is more than three.
Now that's a truth I can handle.
Another truth?. Landis accused practically all of America's greatest cyclists including George Hincapie of doping, but you don't hear LeMond tooting that horn because George wasn't more successful in the Tour than LeMond.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
big tx goes 2 jail
robertoquinto 1 year ago
Armstrong has never been tested positve by the UCI. Anybody who says this is true, is full of shit.
member5738 1 year ago
Armstrong and Lemond both doped, people just have to realize that doping is the most important aspect in professional cycling and doping is how you become and thrive as a professional
finnrambo1 1 year ago
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@finnrambo1, Greg LeMond's reason for accusing Armstrong? Simple: Seven is more than three.
Now that's a truth I can handle.
Another truth?. Landis accused practically all of America's greatest cyclists including George Hincapie of doping, but you don't hear LeMond tooting that horn because George wasn't more successful in the Tour than LeMond.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
lance is a superstar Lemond just a wheel sucking machine
whiskydog777 1 year ago
doper!!!
MrJohnnysmackers 1 year ago
if anyone should be in question its LeMond.Look at his past training threw his peak yrs.He would take winter off and get chunky then within a months time he is peaking?Dope was rampent in his time,there are records that still havent been beat.Time trails that still hold today.Greg is a poor sport that got taken advantage of by his team mate and now hates the sport and the world like a little child who cant have its toy.Be a man Greg and just except the fact ur not the all time american cyclist
wwdhhhh 1 year ago
LeMond is a douche-bag!
dink65 1 year ago
You morons are not in tune with the history of PEDS and cycling.Lemond is telling the truth and Lance is a fraud.
cat4forlife 1 year ago 4
armstrong just was the inposture of the century
Erwanlebreton 1 year ago
Apparently not. Because it's a two way gravy train. Armstrong wins and makes money. The MSM uses him and makes money. Both know that without the other, many will say who gives a **** about cycling?
It's the Tiger Woods Theory. Without Tiger in the PGA, would any sane person waste their time watching THAT? Therefore, in exchange for profit, we'll let Tiger and Lance rule their sports. And if you're a competitor, you'd better not piss them off.
whereismybailouttv 1 year ago
What's the underlying factor here? Money and power.
If doping is happening, teams just want to keep it quiet. Armstrong thinks that just by winning the Tour 7 times he can do and say anything he damn well pleases. Why? Because he has his "reputation" to consider.
Actually, it's more than that. It's endorsements and power. Does it bother anybody than 1 person has this much power in his sport?
whereismybailouttv 1 year ago
LeMond. The worst kind of critic. A sore winner.
georgert 1 year ago
@georgert No. the worst kind of "winner" is a drug cheat! Armstrong is guilty as charged and the sport has become a joke!!!
Vambo1958 1 year ago
When was Armstrong found guilty by a court? Oh let me guess, you're the judge and jury! If not, keep your opinions to yourself. He's done more for the sport and cancer vivtims than anyone else. And you sit there and say he's guilty. Man can you message me all your documents and all of Armstrong's dirty test results? You cant, there are none.
ronjon9937 1 year ago
I cross country skier can have a Vo2 max off 80 ml and a cyclist 70. That doesnt mean that the cross country skier would beat him in a time trial
hausken93 1 year ago
Why don't they just ALLOW EPO in pro-cycling? At least then, everyone would be on a level playing field. There is so much distrust among all parties involved, so much political b.s. This person blaming that person...bla bla bla. Cycling is a very cool sport, but is becoming a joke. It's like a bad soap opera.
jbilly24 1 year ago 2
@jbilly24 Because people would die of EPO overdose... it's easier to ban a drug than to permit a minimun use.
Other pro sports (football, MBA, tennis, ...) are using more PED than cycling. Hopefully Italians, French, and Germans are doing a great job to fight doping and the corrupted UCI
hghepo 1 year ago
VO2 max has nothing to do with performance. My VO2 max is higher than most of my team mates but they have better power to weight and they can beat me on any given day. I understand if somone is blood doping yes there levels will change as Greg pointed out. But if the levels of a rider changes the regular tests will still catch it due to levels of red blood cells in a bood test.
missjones0412 1 year ago
Holy cow Lance, you're a real a-hole.
Waffenzug 1 year ago
Of course Greg is right, and he scared the dopers like Armstrong. By his method an average naturel rider like Pharmstrong will never be able tp justify his chemical performances of his TDF.
hghepo 1 year ago 2
@hghepo Of course Lance dopes...but you don't thing for one minute that Lemond didn't dope as well? Part of professional cycling is doping. People need to get over it.
yngwieisking 1 year ago
@yngwieisking
Good comment. IIf he did then I think lemond did also. Where are the people against le mond
itnay616 1 year ago
Greg is a piece of shit who has always been on a witch hunt against Lance because he is jealous.
NCSven 1 year ago 3
Fuck Lance Armstrong he is cheater. A cocky piece of shit that thinks he has won. But mark my words once this piece of shit retires it will come out. I used PEDS. And what will his supporters say the same old shit. Everyone does it.. Lance Armstrong biggest cheat ever!!!!!
mrleroy1966 1 year ago
yawn. tired readin all the johny come latlety comments. blablabla, your comments are all shit, u know nothing about our sport, Lemonds points are valid and well thought. LA dismissed them as its to close to the bone/truth! Paddy Mc Quaid may not do as much as Hien did to protect LA. Intresting devlopments this summer could happen!
mickoholland 1 year ago 2
Poor Greg.
g99se9 1 year ago
Yes it is a bit complicated but Lemond is saying that the VO2 figures for everyrider is mainly constant, he says scientific evidence shows that in a ridewrs career this does not change, and a simple test will give a read out on this and if it is way off the riders norm then that is proof of something dodgey going on. But Lance is not giving out any positive response, as maybe he should? then when the doctor there tries to discuss with Lemond Arnstrong appears to override the doctor,
WELLBRAN 1 year ago
Lances approach to Lemond should have been hey Greg a great idea lets do that test and catch all the cheaters...but no he said no such thing, just changes the subject, really wierd for a clean rider
WELLBRAN 1 year ago 2
dude, armstrong had brain and lung cancer, and rode with litery half a lung, if thats not doing it, well, that is doing it the hard way, that is doing it the hardest way that it has ever been done
assman12354 1 year ago
@assman12354 LOL I can see that you are not on my wavelength at all and this thread here is called the "All american Armstrong / cancer appreciation society" it seems Lance's cancer is clouding the cycling judgements. oh well one day it will all come out in the wash.
WELLBRAN 1 year ago
I don't understand what you gain by not liking armstrong? I mean you don't have to, it really makes no differance to me, but it sounds as though you get something from it,what is it in life that makes you happier to go out and put people down who like armstrong and why does it make you happier to put down armstrong himself?
assman12354 1 year ago
Because Armstrong cheated, cheated other contenders, cheated fans, threatened reporters who wanted to speak of his doping, threatened riders like Bassons, Simeoni, forced Motorola riders to dope too,...
How can you support such guy?
hellsadore 1 year ago 2
Also Greg had only one kidney
WELLBRAN 1 year ago
@WELLBRAN No one has replied to this??
WELLBRAN 1 year ago
Lance set up a record on ITT because of aerobar and wind. He didn't win by a big gap... or all others were doped too.
We know that EPO gives a huge advantage. How did Lance to beat all the EPO dopers who shared podium and top ten with him? How clean was he to beat Pantani, Ullrich, Virenque, Vino, Hamilton, Valverde or Landis?
hellsadore 1 year ago
Greg LeMond is 100% in the looney bin.
crashplayer19 1 year ago
Greg should be asked to prove that he did not use dope in his three tours.
drewp66 2 years ago
He doesnt have to prove anything. Winning the tour is prrof of hard work and success in itself. You should prove to me that your not some pissy little shithead who doesnt get dropped on the ride out.
Seanobb 1 year ago
@Seanobb You have proven my point! Greg has the same proof that Lance does when it comes to doping. He competed, won, and passed all of the doping controls just like Greg. So, in your own words "winning the tour is proof of hard work and success in itself". Therefore Greg should get over his pathological jealousy of Lance and move on. Greg is the world's biggest sour grapes, cry baby.
As for whether I get dropped on the ride out. Even though it does not happen often. It is irrelevant.
drewp66 1 year ago 2
Greg LeMond's average speed in the time trial, 54.545 km/h, was the fastest in Tour de France stage history; since then, only the 1994 prologue has been faster.[1
On a boat anchor with aero bars? What proof does he have that he was clean? Many others were doping at this time. Testing was very easy to beat back then.
Clearly he could have been using performance enhancing substances.
drewp66 2 years ago
@drewp66 Mind you Lemond was heavily scorned at those times as he did not compete too much in the rest of the season saving it for the tour Thats why he wasa always up there during the tour, but the classics etc he showed nothing
WELLBRAN 1 year ago
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Thanks to Lemond to point the obvious doping of some liars and cheaters.
hghepo 2 years ago
i feel bad for lemond, he was a guy i looked up to when i started out, now he's this guy who's just doing anything he can for attention, lemond would be ten times cooler if he would join lances fight against cancer then what he's doing now
assman12354 2 years ago 5
@assman12354 Lemond when he was winning was to me an arrogant smirky yank, but now i have a big admiration for him, to stand up and be heard, a true Gent, while Armstrong is just......a thug
WELLBRAN 1 year ago
what is gentile about what he's been saying, to tear down someone who is doing so much for cancer reserch and has created a greater life style for a huge number of people, besides, lemond seems like he's just trying to get attention for himself, everyones forgeting he won 3 when armstrong has won 7 and got a 3rd, he's trying to prove he's better than lance in any way he can, and its totaling backfiring,
assman12354 1 year ago
@assman12354 Greg is saying what you said in your reply..no one is capable of winning 7...unless??? also Lemond will ALWAYS be a better rider than Armstrong....as he did it in europe being an outsider and doing it the hard way
WELLBRAN 1 year ago
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@ Wellbrain,
guess it is useless to discuss with someone like you, but again: Get a little bit more in the material and know your facts. There was a higher variety, but because the perfect usage of the substances was not known. Look at the Olympic games in these years and than tell me again, that there was no doping in professional sports. Know your facts...
JulianAY84 2 years ago
Hey Greg, Doping can't win you the Tour. Not David Millar in 2003, Riis in '97, not Armstrong in '99...
Sick3ninVend3tta 2 years ago 10
a riders VO2max doesn't entirely have to do with their results in the sport of cycling. For example, my VO2max was 76 when i raced and Taylor Phinney's is 70. That doesn't mean that i can hop on the track and whoop taylor phinney in the persuit. and for some reason in Lemond's book, my slow 3m 54s 3k is faster then Taylor's record breaking 3m 16s ride. Like Sir Charles would say, "Come on Lemond. That was terrible."
Richman909 2 years ago 9
@Richman909
Hallelujah, Hallelujah!. Did everybody hear that?. V02 max/promoting red blood cells isn't the be all, end all to enhancing cycling/athletic performance, fact. Its one area, its one factor, of cycling performance. You can't just take advantage of one area & expect to the Win the Tour, Millar, Riis - esque...
Sick3ninVend3tta 2 years ago 10
@Richman909
A big factor people leave out is adrenaline. If all of a sudden a rider gets a spike of adrenaline while going up a mountain, it doesn't matter how hard he is breathing, he may just set a new record for that mountain. I've got some awfully big lungs myself and they honestly don't translate into great success, but when i get a spike in adrenaline i see instant results.
partylwc 1 year ago
@Richman909
VO2 max almost directly relates to how capable you are in a time trial.
Buckiller 1 year ago
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Richman909 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@ WELLBRAN
Don't know, what you are talking about... BUT as a matter of fact, either pain lowering substances, or performance enhancing sustances, or BOTH were taken ALWAYS in cycling.
Its just, that its not only about cycling. You earn so much money with professional sports, that its a result of the system.
Regards,...
JulianAY84 2 years ago
@JulianAY84
We need to question Lemond about his caffeine & sodium bicarbonate overdose usage before the start & during of each stage. Sly little begger. Will he admit too it, of course not. Why not?. All within regulation back in the day.
Sick3ninVend3tta 2 years ago 9
Greg LeMond is still lost in the 80s with no understanding of modern sport science. Read about the Physiology studies done by team Garmin.
jjmnky 2 years ago 9
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@jjmnky You are right, now sport and pro cyclists know how to use chemical products...
Human physiology for sport have been known since the 70's, some small corrections have been done but nothing to explain a 20% margin between riders of 80's and today, especially when the gap was made while EPO became widely used.
hghepo 2 years ago
@hghepo
When Armstrong made his comeback in '1999, post cancer, he started to lift heavy weights & include it in his training program. He was getting 20%,30%+ stronger than his nearest rivals by hitting the weights over weaker riders who believed in cranking all day would bring them success, not so. There you go hghepo, I have just explained to you how the 20% margin Lance achieved over "weaker" riders. Piorneer.
Sick3ninVend3tta 2 years ago 8
@Sick3ninVend3tta Weights?!!!! LMAO! You don't know much about bike racing do you? Perhaps a Cat. 4 who buys Carmichael's and other BS programs? Weights don't do squat for producing power on the bike, only add extra weight to carry. And no, core exercises will not give you 20% more power either. Any cycling coach worth his weight knows this. LA's weight training videos are is just to sell his products, just like that Cyclocore guy and many other snake oil salesmen.
CiachoLover 1 year ago
@CiachoLover, Weights & core strength don't do squat for producing power on the bike?. Go tell that too Chris Hoy, Victoria Pendleton, Anna Meares, Fabian Cancellara, Shanaze Reade, Armstrong, Gregory Bauge etc etc...
Out of my face you Feckin' TROLL.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
@Sick3nin Yeah, I guess Arnold should have raced bikes then, eh? Those Kenyan marathoners really look like they spend a lot of time in the gym. You're deluding yourself. Gym improves strength (yes, important for match sprints), but has absolutely no bearing on sustained power, i.e. no benefit for a road cyclist. Ask Michael Rasmussen what made the difference... more red blood cells (EPO), not stronger muscles. You LA fanboys embarrass yourselves with your lack of knowledge of basic physiology.
CiachoLover 1 year ago
@Sick3ninVend3tta What matters in endurance sports is the ability to push 25 KG for 1 hr (400 W), not 250 KG for 10 seconds. Even Theo Bos (world champ match sprinter) is getting schooled in road race sprints. People like Hoy, Pendleton, Bauge would even survive to contest the sprint in a RR. You've been had by the greatest fraud in cycling and it's just a matter of time.
CiachoLover 1 year ago
@CiachoLover, Arnold???. Kenyan marathoners???.
You said, weights don't do squat for PRODUCING POWER on the bike. WRONG!. Sir Chris Hoy's 2300 watts of power is pretty much down to his overwhelming STRENGTH levels. FACT.
Of course they can't contest a (RR sprint) dummy, there not training for it, they want the ultimate POWER fix, developed just as much in the gym as on the bike. FACT.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
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CiachoLover 1 year ago
@Sick3ninVend3tta "Of course they can't contest a (RR sprint) dummy, there not training for it" Did you just agree with me there? Precisely, training in the gym is NOT training for road racing, and certainly not for a grand tour. That's why a skinny dude on the bike will whip your Sir Hoy's butt in a road race, because it's not about strength. Weaker women routinely beat stronger men in endurance events. It's about oxygen delivery to the muscles. That's why they dope with EPO.
CiachoLover 1 year ago
@CiachoLover, No! No! No!... That wasn't the initial argument... YOU SAID........ Weights don't do squat for PRODUCING POWER on the bike. WRONG!.
They produce masses amounts of power as proved by the likes of Chris Hoy & Victoria Pendleton (Queen of the Track) who have produced the GREATEST feats of POWER ever produced on a bicycle via greater strength levels produced in the gym.
Sick3ninVend3tta 1 year ago
@Sick3ninVend3tta The initial argument was that LA got good because of heaving lifting. That's what I was responding to. You introduced the Chris Hoy, etc. red herring argument. Match sprinting (2300W for 5 sec) and grand tour cycling (400W for 1 hr) are 2 different sports even if they both use bicycles. Similarly, Usain Bolt's training will be of no benefit to a marathoner.
The only thing lifting will do is take time away from riding a bike and make you too tired to ride effectively. I'm done.
CiachoLover 1 year ago