I used to work in an automotive factory, and I would stay after on my own time to use there extensive blacksmith shop/machine shop/fabrication shop. My boss said as long as the materials were provided by me, and it didn't interfere with production it was no problem. I made some very nice swords, knives and things like that. Nothing this good or elaberate, but very cool. I made a machete that was so good, I began selling them. Very hard work though.
So you guys being swordsmiths can you tell me something? I know that mall bought katanas are shit (I know my set is), but if I brought the steel from them to a real blademaker, could they fashion me a battle ready sword out of it?
Tbt, modern steel is much better than the steel created there. As such, there are katanas coming out of china that will easily stand up to greater stresses than these. But, the art of how those swords are made is amazing to behold
@Zyamaman Incorrect. It's all about the design really. Sure the Celts built good swords but that's because the sword was a simple sword and not advanced and not potent enough unlike the Katana. The katana is the only sword that can cut through 3 pigs stacked together unlike the celt that can only reach half way of the first pig. Just to show you that with limited resources, the well rounded Japanese are still able to craft one of the best swords in the world.
I just bought a full tang sword. Its not a traditional katana, its actually Arwens sword from Lord of the rings, but the blade is slightly off center where is meets the handle, it is more toward one side than the other, will this cause harm to the sword even by simply holding it, or will it break off or slide out of the handle? Basically I just want to know if I have anything to worry about?
@japantruthify01 no your argument is asinine Chinese nationalists come on these pages and say they are the same as chinese swords. Your just a nationalist beating an old worn drum albeit a korean one.
I'm thinking about buying one from display but after seeing this I think I want one of these traditionally made katanas. Would cost a lot over $1000 :(
Wew!.. This is ancient knowledge of smithsonian.. Samurai sword in this video has 5000 folds wich is baunded in only 1 centimeter thick blade!.. Same as Javanesse Kriss (Keris).. SALUT !!
And the katana DIDN'T have better quality steel, and that's the whole point
On the contrary, most of Japan's iron reserves were of incredibly poor quality, barely suitable for kitchen knives
.
And that's the reason why Japanese blacksmiths are worthy of admiration - not because they made magical blades that can cut a tank in half without effort, but because they actually managed to produce rather decent blades from pretty much nothing...
No much to understand here - all their natural reserves of iron ore were of shitty quality, with lots of impurities (like sulfur, which is destructive for steel).
They were just unlucky like that - the Indians, for example, had excellent iron, great for sword-making.
Not for traditional sword making - they use the same materials as they used in the past.
Moreover, the Japanese had the ability to import superior materials for swordmaking, be it from continental Asia, of from Europe later on, but they never did.
As for the video - yeah, it's just one massive hyperbole.
The Japanese made good blades, sure, but the Celts, for example, mastered the exact same technology since 3d century BC - about 1500 years before the Japanese...
@TheEvilX338 No you aren't. I do perfer a katana over a broadsword, I think a second sword is a must. I'll use a blunted bastard sword to stun. Hell! I'll buy everyone in my family a steel broadsword or a steel bokken. I think I want a curved blade for swiftness, so scratch better shape. Maybe place, untrained hands into the mix of some very minor logic. But some serious self taught experience.
@Zyamamam you don´t have to be a jerk to make a point, and japanese cartoons are not shitty i like them a lot, yeah some of the exagerates a lot the katana prowess, but that doesn´t make all of them shitty (and even some of the ones that exagerates the katana prowess have very good characters and story), and the katana is a not as bad as a sword as you say, to be faithful to the truth it was an average slashing sword, obviously inferior to a european bastard sword but not as shitty as you say.
You still think I don't have to be a jerk to make a point?
Just listen to this little jackass - mistaking his favorite afternoon cartoon show for a historically accurate documentary. It's the same kind of assholes who take Monty Python's "Black Knight" piece for an accurate portrayal of European martial arts techniques!
If that doesn't make you facepalm so hard that your hand sores for a week... well, you're a better person than I am, then...
@BenjaminKuruga They did actually. It's called a Spears, bows, and arrows. Those where the dominate form of warfair. Swords are just status symbols and ceremonial hogwash. You can find some sword used but it will either be those giant European swords or post gun invention swords since you asked for before guns I wont get into those.
@spnkr19 Don't get me wrong, but then why was chain mail invented? etc. spears and Bows and can't be the only thing ever used in war. How did they do close quarters combaT?
@BenjaminKuruga Chainmail wasn't made to stop pointy objects like spears lol. IIRC it was to soften hard blows from, lets say, a hammer. Spears, arrows, and especially swords just slip right through chain mail or break it at the links on a thrust. As for "close combat" what do you think fighting with sticks is? Besides these are armies, no one was dueling it out 1v1. tho, some had side hammers or flails in Europe but really war is won with reach and numbers not fancy weapons.
@spnkr19 You really... don't have a clue do you? I've grown up in England visiting heritage sites, going to castles etc.... I'm not sure where you got this idea that swords weren't used... but that's complete rubbish. I presume you're American? (Not being rude in assuming) Which as a country was founded long after the time of sword warfare. Swords, Spears, Bows, Spears, Axes, Hammers, Maces, Flails WERE ALL USED in common warfare. Don't spread your unfounded ignorance as fact.
@crackerjack55 Ha, maybe in some games but not in real life. Especially in Japaneses history, our current topic. No one wins wars with short expensive pieces of metal.
@spnkr19 You're an idiot mate, swords were used in great abundance, perhaps spears would be used as a primary weapon but once you'd get face to face with an enemy you would generally use a sword. As for axes, they were mainly used for attacking horsemen, but not for hand to hand combat. As others have said you are clearly only familiar with the relatively short history of America.
Maille was actually a pretty good defense against spears and such. Even thrusting oriented swords have a hard time thrusting through the links. There's a reason maille was the dominant form of armor in the Mediterranean world for over a thousand years. In war, most people will use spears. If spears penetrated maille reliably, I don't think maille would have been as popular as it was.
Swords are consistently used in warfare; even commoners would use swords if they could afford them. People put a lot of time, energy, and study into perfecting the use and design of swords; that's not something people do is they're just "status symbols" or "Ceremonial hogwash". Swords achieved their status /because of/ their use by professional soldiers. It isn't just a random selection.
The Roman Empire used swords as their primary, front line weapon for hundreds of years. Spanish tercios used a formation of 1/3 pikes, 1/3 muskets, and 1/3 swordsmen. Spanish rodeleros, or sword and buckler-men, were swordsmen who were used to fight against pike formations. German Landsknecht and Swiss Reisläufer used two handed, one handed, and hand and a half swords whenever the situation demanded. Knights consistently used swords in battle for hundreds of years.
@Zyamaman your posts are not worth reading you think you are right. narrow minded moron i shouldn't of wasted my time responding to a youtube loser who probably still lives at home with mom.
@lilsm555 That technique was used in europe some centuries earlier than the japanese (and sometimes only for decoration purposes, because they had better quality ore, and better smithing techniques), for example the vikings in VII A.D. made very good and beautiful swords using steel folding.
It is not about fanboyism is about facts, the katana was an average slashing sword (but somewhat fragile), made with a process that gets the better from the mediocre ore that japanese smiths have, not THE ULTIMATE SWORD that otaku fanboys believe.
The samurai were pretty decent warriors specialized in mounted combat, but with an acceptable competence in swordmanship, not the INVENCIBLE WARRIORS that a lot of people ignorantly believe because they have seen in anime or in crappy tv programs.
@tulkasainur Japanese katana is just better made and stronger then european swords idc if you had the same black smithing techniques the sword it self is better. I mean yeah cool the European swords had the same steel folding technique but the samurai sword was still superior,faster and lighter.
@lilsm555 what i said is that the european used those techniques a lot of time before than the japanese, so what is the great deal with the folding, also they descarded those technique after they discovered better ones, also the ore they used had better quality.
You say that the katana is lighter and faster? A common misconception sadly is that european swords weighted a lot, a katana ranges from 2.5 to 3.0 lb, a bastard sword ranged from 2.5 to 3.3 lb.
@tulkasainur Europeans didn't fold first. So katana has more power over a broadsword for it's weight if it's even congruent. Europeans actually didn't discover steel, it was India in 3rd century BC! I know WAY too many unknowledged souls out there who don't pick up a sword everyday to practice. Spend most of their days sitting on their asses all day eating doritos and drinking soda. Try actually proving yourself worth and learn a technique of swordsmenship. I'll still have 30 years over you.
None of what you said makes sense - maybe you should try to reiterate.
The Indians didn't invent steel in 3rd century BC - that's when they discovered Wootz: a "form" of steel.
Also, "folding" is the FIRST technique for steel weapon production, actually - everyone folded at first.
For example - around 3rd century BC, the ancient Celts were making excellent steel swords, using none other then the "folding technique" (actually, it's called steel lamination) - an interesting fact.
@Zyamaman not to mention the Anglo-Saxon skleet swords folding and carbomnized steel as well. Asia didnt invent folding steel or carbonization just like it didnt invent writing that happened in different places and even before China started writing. I agree sword technology was created by necessity.
@MsOneiroi77 invention of writing is credited to civilizations that independently invented it and not writing as a general concept, such cases of not inventing the writing is the adoption of Latin alphabets from the Romans by other civilisations. Also 'folding' steel have different techniques as some are independently developed. however if by Anglo-Saxon 'folding' is two forms of procedures; is twisting the pieces of steel together and hammered down to form patterns (pattern welding)
@MsOneiroi77 however the Japanese technique here is from the Chinese whereby they fold the billet and match up different pieces of steel for the core,edge and side ranging from hard to soft; later hammered and differentially hardened. This technique was already present in spring-autumn period of Chinese history experimented on Bronze and early Iron/Steel works. Despite earlier iron weapons; it fully replace bronze in the Han era also STANDARD issue weapons for the military were polearms
@MsOneiroi77 To add further early 'steel swords' did not have pattern welding and were on par or weaker than bronze swords as bloom furnace do badly at increase the hardness of the iron (carbon content) which results it more prone to bending (look up blast furnace). here is an example of a Chinese spring and autumn period sword 'Sword of Goujian'. Oh, and the invention of writing generally is debated 'look up Jiahu Symbols'.
@zeiitgeist no writing was invented in many places over many different periods. Sumerian, the Americas never were influenced by China and it would be arrogant of the Chinese to say they invented it and influenced all humanity. They didnt.
@MsOneiroi77 I did not say they ( Sumerians, Meso-america) were influenced by Chinese writing, rmb i did put in my previous post 'independent invention' for convenience sake and also note that writing have different forms like logogram, cuneiform, ideogram and so on. Also, it seems to me many people when in regards to China; uses the whole world against it such as Europe vs China instead of individual countries.
And for the record, I didn't say that a Katana is a SHITTY sword per say, just not a very good FIELD weapon.
Personally, I'd choose it as a every-day personal self-defense weapon - it leaves the sheathe faster than you can blink, it carves motherfuckers up like it's cool, what else do you need?
Uhh, I don't know why I'm even replying to this. It's degrading...
The method used in Katana making is called steel lamination. It's a technique born out of necessity, due to the inability of the early smiths to properly smelt iron, which led to very inconsistent steel quality.
So they combined pieces of low-carb steel and high-carb, and banged them together to produce the carbon content they needed.
Actually, I was putting much more emphasis on the point about steel production.
The point about meeting demands imposed by tactical requirements... Japanese smiths were able to meet those demands just as well.
It's just that their tactical necessities were much more narrowly defined, and thus they could afford to commit themselves to one blade design, tailored for their specific needs.
It's more of a point regarding the Japanese isolationist policies, than anything else, really...
@KissakiSan An average katana takes a year to make while it is reheated. Research shows that when steel is reheated over and over again, it becomes stronger.
Not really. There isn't any actual evidence to this point. The claim that any one culture are the 'greatest sword makers in the world' is mostly based upon pop culture hype.
@HereTheArtBegins There is;matter of fact. It shows that if you re-heat steel over and over agian it becomes stronger. How many times do you think Europeons reheated their steel? Ha.
Not only was folding used in Europe at least until the 16th century, but folding does not do what you suggest. Reheating does nothing to make a steel stronger, and in fact metallurgical analysis has shown that the folding process does nothing but homogenize the materials in an otherwise inconsistent steel.
So, here we have directly a quote stating that the forge-fold operation, which you call "reheating", does nothing if a steel is already homogeneous; which shows why folding is used less and less in more technologically sophisticated cultures than Japan.
Additionally, if we're looking at simple reheating...wouldn't you have to reheat a sword every time you want to shape it with hammering and/or heat treatment? Wouldn't it then be a universal attribute of sword manufacture?
So the American "gun culture" is for redneck and inbred, Nazi militarism is for brutes and inhuman abominations but for some reason the Samurai sword is associated with "beautiful art", honor and the "Bushido" (the art of keeping idiots in line) just because they wear pjs when making em. Are you guys stupid or what? I think in if they have the "way of the poop" or shit-do in Japan, you would dig it too right? you stupid nippon crotch sniffing little fucks.
What a BEAUTIFUL art it would be an honor to have one made by a master like him. I'd stay awake just to see how he makes it. Just wish i can have one made by a master sordsmith.
These people are performing religious tasks. The creation of swords and their proper polishing and sharpening is a religious act in Japan. The entire process is part of Shinto. That is one of the reasons that pre-Shogunate traditions of sword making forging and polishing survived into modern times.
@otsys77 $35,000 in some cases second hand (no real price drop for second hand in this area though) but the thing is, you cant get the out of japan. they do not let them through customs. only fake swords can leave (no edge and non ferius metal) they test them with a magnet at the airport so I am told.
@rclarked no, he got it right. The higher carbon steel is used to form a rigid edge that retains it's sharpness while the "spine" of the katana is made of more flexible, low carbon steel so the sword can bend without shattering.
the katana is work of art, and having one is a responsibility. This work of art will not be dissolved, I believe that the Japanese government wouldn't let their tradition be gone.
But if the warriors are strong then they could take out the rest of the enemies- The 300 Spartans for example if the goat path wasn't found they would have beaten the Persions epicly. :)
The Samurai sword (Katana) has some of the sharpest blades in the world, It's made of two kinds og steel. The Katana is also the most efective sword. Real awesome huh? :D
The goals behind the smiths of Europe and Japan differed vastly. The Europeans in general had greater access to iron ore and as such it was to their benefit to mass produce swords of an "inferior" quality. The Japanese were very limited with iron and thus sword breakage was unacceptable. The difference of these swords was really a matter of needs.
@theodofustwinsword Japan has limited source of iron. Swordsmiths developed methods to turn iron into good quality steel. Only the top quality steel like the tamahagane is used to forge the katana. It took weeks to make a katana where it took only a few days to make a European broadsword. The broadsword is a heavier weapon and brute strength is needed to wield it. The katana is lighter weapon and it takes techniques and skills to master its usage.
@MrLantean First I'd like to state that ANY weapon requires a good deal of skill to wield. Just thrashing about and hoping to land a blow will get you killed. I am quite aware of the scarcity of iron in Japan as I have already mentioned. The point I was trying to make is that militaristic needs differed. It was better for European smiths to provide a massive amounts of swords in a short period of time due to an abundance of steel.
@MrLantean Further smiths in Europe still employed many techniques to strengthen their blades despite the speed at which they were made, they just never had a need to go to the lengths the Japanese did. While katanas are quite strong the labor hindered the speed of production. It's a tactical advantage to have many soldiers outfitted quickly rather than give a handful of men a superior weapon in the same time span. I am not putting down katanas, just saying give the other weapons their respect
@theodofustwinsword Forging a katana is labour intensive. A master sworsmith requires assistance from his apprentices for hammering and folding the steel. In Japan, only samurais and a selected few were allowed to carry swords. In Europe, anyone can own a sword as long he has money. European soldiers can be equiped with a sword due the greater access to iron while in Japan samurais are the only one that carry swords.
@MrLantean I am failing to see your point as much of this is information I previously stated. If there is something you would like to discuss please share it as I can not see what you are trying to get at.
Mass production can not be used to describe European sword smithing in any way whatsoever. Not only were there not standard models, but the variation between each individual sword is staggering at times. What you actually have in Europe is a wider market pressure on sword smiths to produce a wide variety of swords of differing characteristics. No one "churned out" swords.
Lower quality swords were made in Japan as well, particularly during the Sengoku Jidai.
@Caliburnis I use the term rather loosely. If you had read my previous posts you would realize I am hardly criticizing European swords. The truth is the manner in which they were created was less time consuming and less labor intensive in comparison. In an arms race European smiths would be able to amass more swords than Japanese. So I believe my use of the word is fairly accurate in terms of blade smithing.
I'm not really saying you're criticizing them at all, just that you're mischaracterizing the nature of swordsmithing in Europe. What actually happened is that there was a wider market for swords, and Europeans had technologies that made it easier to produce quality swords. For instance, there is evidence that the price of iron and steel goods dropped about 90% from 1200-1300 due to advances in technology. That's because it was easier to get than before.
Much of what you're saying really may not be that off the mark. It's probably that you're just using bad words to explain your ideas. Not even a loose definition of "mass production" can describe the European sword market. Making swords of an "inferior" quality due to more access to iron ore is /definitely/ not true because steel is still very very costly to produce; sword quality steel even moreso.
european swords are no much for these
mrvishal1000 1 week ago
Too bad european swords are superior!
BobinatorLulz 2 weeks ago
Daedric swords are better.
drplbiftin 2 weeks ago
He's like the Eorlund Gray-Mane of japan and that is his Skyforge.
aumi20 2 weeks ago
I used to work in an automotive factory, and I would stay after on my own time to use there extensive blacksmith shop/machine shop/fabrication shop. My boss said as long as the materials were provided by me, and it didn't interfere with production it was no problem. I made some very nice swords, knives and things like that. Nothing this good or elaberate, but very cool. I made a machete that was so good, I began selling them. Very hard work though.
0Heavy0Metal0 3 weeks ago
@Physics. No
jedi1234ify 3 weeks ago
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So you guys being swordsmiths can you tell me something? I know that mall bought katanas are shit (I know my set is), but if I brought the steel from them to a real blademaker, could they fashion me a battle ready sword out of it?
phsycosk8r429 3 weeks ago
Thank you Thank you Thank you for uploading this. I saw it on tv and loved it!
Trund27 3 weeks ago
Tbt, modern steel is much better than the steel created there. As such, there are katanas coming out of china that will easily stand up to greater stresses than these. But, the art of how those swords are made is amazing to behold
dertnberny 1 month ago
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1080P
720P
480P
360P
240P
MineCraft
A potato
This video -___-
ElsirHamour 1 month ago
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I'm gonna get one!
TheJeremiah582 2 months ago
a wild 240p appears.
user uses refresh.
it's not very effective...
si13ntsl4y3r 2 months ago 4
240p we meet again...
littlealien123 2 months ago
thats actually CHUCK NORRIS's tooth pick
xxxlilixxx100 2 months ago
8:40 Master Onani..the '' sword polisher '' :))
qpae123 2 months ago
i dont want to be around if and when the last real tradditional katana smiths are gone i hope their decendents continue it
blackwinter35 2 months ago
can any one lend me 50,000$ ?
anthonycotillo 2 months ago
@Zyamaman Incorrect. It's all about the design really. Sure the Celts built good swords but that's because the sword was a simple sword and not advanced and not potent enough unlike the Katana. The katana is the only sword that can cut through 3 pigs stacked together unlike the celt that can only reach half way of the first pig. Just to show you that with limited resources, the well rounded Japanese are still able to craft one of the best swords in the world.
JWelshQ91 2 months ago
@JWelshQ91
1. Explain exactly how the katana is more "advanced" than a Celtic blade.
2. Evidence of this supposed swine-cutting test, involving the swords in question, is also to be provided.
Zyamaman 2 months ago
Very good documentary.
@Zyamaman
You're knowledge is wrong.
RS42434 2 months ago
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@RS42434
Prove me wrong, then...
Zyamaman 2 months ago
what is the name of this documentary?
MrXeonify 3 months ago
Factories could produce these swords at mass scale, but I believe non of them have the soul and the energy of the maker.
These swords are art.
I hope this knowledge will never be forgotten.
ar2110302 3 months ago 3
Interesting
EvilPyroCan 3 months ago
I wish this video was in a higher quality.
fisheyman42 3 months ago
How can I buy one where can I get it
Joseq140 3 months ago
4:07 That Looks Like Lava
arrias99 3 months ago
it will be sooooo bad ass to have a master that teaches you to make one
frenchcrusade 3 months ago
Living Root Bridge send me here
JIMVOMIT 3 months ago
Amazing and unique piece of art ! Fantastic !
SylvainGagnon07 3 months ago
teach me your ways gassan sadatoshi
mjk49erfan 4 months ago
I just bought a full tang sword. Its not a traditional katana, its actually Arwens sword from Lord of the rings, but the blade is slightly off center where is meets the handle, it is more toward one side than the other, will this cause harm to the sword even by simply holding it, or will it break off or slide out of the handle? Basically I just want to know if I have anything to worry about?
andrewdrury1 4 months ago
@andrewdrury1
thats a wall hanger, not a battle ready piece. that thing will break if you do any sort of cutting with it.
f8talh8red 3 months ago
Badass sword! I never knew half the stuff in this commentary and I was really surprised at the folding process!
GoldAG300 4 months ago
the japanese shield!? WHAT A JUICY CONTRADICTION xD
hotpockets222 4 months ago
How do you spell yihada or skin of the metal
Ojdaweedmane 4 months ago
now THIS is a man's sword... fuck machine milling hydraulic hammers & computerized furnaces. There is no space for the future, in the past.
AlphaEckoNiner9ner 4 months ago 21
@japantruthify01 no your argument is asinine Chinese nationalists come on these pages and say they are the same as chinese swords. Your just a nationalist beating an old worn drum albeit a korean one.
MsOneiroi77 5 months ago
where do i get one from?
thedukeofantioch 5 months ago
Such art! It brings tears to my eyes!
CthulhuFish42 5 months ago
I'm thinking about buying one from display but after seeing this I think I want one of these traditionally made katanas. Would cost a lot over $1000 :(
ShadowCompanyHD 5 months ago
Sword polisher...lol
hadhad69 5 months ago 2
Wew!.. This is ancient knowledge of smithsonian.. Samurai sword in this video has 5000 folds wich is baunded in only 1 centimeter thick blade!.. Same as Javanesse Kriss (Keris).. SALUT !!
jakfajar 6 months ago
@jakfajar
How many folds, again?
Zyamaman 6 months ago
is this skyjiro forge?
jord505 6 months ago
Am I the only one who likes both European and Japanese swords? The katana just had better quality steel, but the European swords had better shape IMO
TheEvilX338 6 months ago
@TheEvilX338
No, you're not the only one, I assure you.
And the katana DIDN'T have better quality steel, and that's the whole point
On the contrary, most of Japan's iron reserves were of incredibly poor quality, barely suitable for kitchen knives
.
And that's the reason why Japanese blacksmiths are worthy of admiration - not because they made magical blades that can cut a tank in half without effort, but because they actually managed to produce rather decent blades from pretty much nothing...
Zyamaman 6 months ago 71
Comment removed
slipknot7mt 5 months ago
@Zyamaman
no, katana's are more beautiful than your wife's ass too
mortemdrummer 3 months ago
@mortemdrummer
So what you're trying to say here is that LONG and STIFF phallic objects, such as the katana, arouse you far more than a female's hindquarter does?
Gotcha.
Zyamaman 3 months ago
@Zyamaman
ha i spend more time thinking about badass things more than actual asses, maybe you don't, but i do.
mortemdrummer 3 months ago
Respond to this video...
oh but yeah you totally got me there i don't know wtf i was saying lol
mortemdrummer 3 months ago
@mortemdrummer
Alright then, I'm glad we're on the same page here.
Zyamaman 3 months ago
@Zyamaman I probably won´t understand but, would you mind telling me why was the Japanese steel of low quality?
Warxoth 3 months ago
@Warxoth
No much to understand here - all their natural reserves of iron ore were of shitty quality, with lots of impurities (like sulfur, which is destructive for steel).
They were just unlucky like that - the Indians, for example, had excellent iron, great for sword-making.
Zyamaman 3 months ago
@Zyamaman Do they import materials now? The video makes it seem like these really are the best blades.
Soothfish 3 months ago
@Soothfish
Not for traditional sword making - they use the same materials as they used in the past.
Moreover, the Japanese had the ability to import superior materials for swordmaking, be it from continental Asia, of from Europe later on, but they never did.
As for the video - yeah, it's just one massive hyperbole.
The Japanese made good blades, sure, but the Celts, for example, mastered the exact same technology since 3d century BC - about 1500 years before the Japanese...
Zyamaman 3 months ago
@Zyamaman imagine if they had titanium !
VorVZakonie 3 months ago
@VorVZakonie
Wouldn't do them much good, really - titanium is not a very good material for sword-making.
Zyamaman 3 months ago
@Zyamaman really ? why? is too hard? not flexible enough?
VorVZakonie 3 months ago
@VorVZakonie
Well, simply put, titanium is only stronger than quality steel per mass, not per volume.
Meaning, a normal-dimensions titanium blade would be much lighter than it's steel counterpart, but not quite as strong.
Also, titanium is fucking expensive, and I don't know whether or not you can smelt titanium using only ancient techniques...
Zyamaman 2 months ago
@TheEvilX338 No you aren't. I do perfer a katana over a broadsword, I think a second sword is a must. I'll use a blunted bastard sword to stun. Hell! I'll buy everyone in my family a steel broadsword or a steel bokken. I think I want a curved blade for swiftness, so scratch better shape. Maybe place, untrained hands into the mix of some very minor logic. But some serious self taught experience.
CthulhuFish42 5 months ago
He won't sleep for 3 days? Hmm now I know why they made amphetamines... :D
gevelegian 6 months ago
@Zyamamam you don´t have to be a jerk to make a point, and japanese cartoons are not shitty i like them a lot, yeah some of the exagerates a lot the katana prowess, but that doesn´t make all of them shitty (and even some of the ones that exagerates the katana prowess have very good characters and story), and the katana is a not as bad as a sword as you say, to be faithful to the truth it was an average slashing sword, obviously inferior to a european bastard sword but not as shitty as you say.
tulkasainur 6 months ago
@tulkasainur
You still think I don't have to be a jerk to make a point?
Just listen to this little jackass - mistaking his favorite afternoon cartoon show for a historically accurate documentary. It's the same kind of assholes who take Monty Python's "Black Knight" piece for an accurate portrayal of European martial arts techniques!
If that doesn't make you facepalm so hard that your hand sores for a week... well, you're a better person than I am, then...
Zyamaman 6 months ago
The time and skill it takes to make these swords is amazing.. That's what makes them so beautiful.
EvanescenceLuvr008 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
copy of korean haidong gumdo. Korea had katana before Japan
nahi27 6 months ago
samurai are so badass. times greatest warrior
BostonBruinsOWN 6 months ago
wow ....people who are history buffs dislike this? really?
creepyinstigator 6 months ago
lol, faggots still think ANY army actually used swords in war.
spnkr19 7 months ago
@spnkr19 Then what did they use before guns were invented? ...sticks? I need clearance :(
BenjaminKuruga 6 months ago
@BenjaminKuruga They did actually. It's called a Spears, bows, and arrows. Those where the dominate form of warfair. Swords are just status symbols and ceremonial hogwash. You can find some sword used but it will either be those giant European swords or post gun invention swords since you asked for before guns I wont get into those.
spnkr19 6 months ago
@spnkr19 Don't get me wrong, but then why was chain mail invented? etc. spears and Bows and can't be the only thing ever used in war. How did they do close quarters combaT?
BenjaminKuruga 6 months ago
@BenjaminKuruga Chainmail wasn't made to stop pointy objects like spears lol. IIRC it was to soften hard blows from, lets say, a hammer. Spears, arrows, and especially swords just slip right through chain mail or break it at the links on a thrust. As for "close combat" what do you think fighting with sticks is? Besides these are armies, no one was dueling it out 1v1. tho, some had side hammers or flails in Europe but really war is won with reach and numbers not fancy weapons.
spnkr19 6 months ago
@spnkr19 Still a beautiful weapon
BenjaminKuruga 6 months ago
@spnkr19 You really... don't have a clue do you? I've grown up in England visiting heritage sites, going to castles etc.... I'm not sure where you got this idea that swords weren't used... but that's complete rubbish. I presume you're American? (Not being rude in assuming) Which as a country was founded long after the time of sword warfare. Swords, Spears, Bows, Spears, Axes, Hammers, Maces, Flails WERE ALL USED in common warfare. Don't spread your unfounded ignorance as fact.
crackerjack55 6 months ago
@crackerjack55 Ha, maybe in some games but not in real life. Especially in Japaneses history, our current topic. No one wins wars with short expensive pieces of metal.
spnkr19 6 months ago
@spnkr19 You're an idiot mate, swords were used in great abundance, perhaps spears would be used as a primary weapon but once you'd get face to face with an enemy you would generally use a sword. As for axes, they were mainly used for attacking horsemen, but not for hand to hand combat. As others have said you are clearly only familiar with the relatively short history of America.
evilbadger714 6 months ago
@spnkr19
Maille was actually a pretty good defense against spears and such. Even thrusting oriented swords have a hard time thrusting through the links. There's a reason maille was the dominant form of armor in the Mediterranean world for over a thousand years. In war, most people will use spears. If spears penetrated maille reliably, I don't think maille would have been as popular as it was.
HereTheArtBegins 6 months ago
@spnkr19
Swords are consistently used in warfare; even commoners would use swords if they could afford them. People put a lot of time, energy, and study into perfecting the use and design of swords; that's not something people do is they're just "status symbols" or "Ceremonial hogwash". Swords achieved their status /because of/ their use by professional soldiers. It isn't just a random selection.
HereTheArtBegins 6 months ago
@spnkr19
The Roman Empire used swords as their primary, front line weapon for hundreds of years. Spanish tercios used a formation of 1/3 pikes, 1/3 muskets, and 1/3 swordsmen. Spanish rodeleros, or sword and buckler-men, were swordsmen who were used to fight against pike formations. German Landsknecht and Swiss Reisläufer used two handed, one handed, and hand and a half swords whenever the situation demanded. Knights consistently used swords in battle for hundreds of years.
HereTheArtBegins 6 months ago
@Zyamaman primitive technique? well the fact is they do use it in japan go look it up. dude you are just a douche bag grow up.
lilsm555 7 months ago
@lilsm555
Wrong, try again.
Go back a bit, read BOTH of my posts (there were two of them, yes), and try again.
Zyamaman 7 months ago
@Zyamaman your posts are not worth reading you think you are right. narrow minded moron i shouldn't of wasted my time responding to a youtube loser who probably still lives at home with mom.
lilsm555 7 months ago
@lilsm555
Yeah kid, sure, whatever - run along now.
Zyamaman 7 months ago
@lilsm555 That technique was used in europe some centuries earlier than the japanese (and sometimes only for decoration purposes, because they had better quality ore, and better smithing techniques), for example the vikings in VII A.D. made very good and beautiful swords using steel folding.
tulkasainur 6 months ago
@tulkasainur Omg im sick of hearing you european fanboys lol just be quiet.
lilsm555 6 months ago
It is not about fanboyism is about facts, the katana was an average slashing sword (but somewhat fragile), made with a process that gets the better from the mediocre ore that japanese smiths have, not THE ULTIMATE SWORD that otaku fanboys believe.
The samurai were pretty decent warriors specialized in mounted combat, but with an acceptable competence in swordmanship, not the INVENCIBLE WARRIORS that a lot of people ignorantly believe because they have seen in anime or in crappy tv programs.
tulkasainur 6 months ago
@tulkasainur Japanese katana is just better made and stronger then european swords idc if you had the same black smithing techniques the sword it self is better. I mean yeah cool the European swords had the same steel folding technique but the samurai sword was still superior,faster and lighter.
lilsm555 6 months ago
@lilsm555 what i said is that the european used those techniques a lot of time before than the japanese, so what is the great deal with the folding, also they descarded those technique after they discovered better ones, also the ore they used had better quality.
You say that the katana is lighter and faster? A common misconception sadly is that european swords weighted a lot, a katana ranges from 2.5 to 3.0 lb, a bastard sword ranged from 2.5 to 3.3 lb.
Use facts not otaku fanboy asumptions.
tulkasainur 6 months ago
@tulkasainur Europeans didn't fold first. So katana has more power over a broadsword for it's weight if it's even congruent. Europeans actually didn't discover steel, it was India in 3rd century BC! I know WAY too many unknowledged souls out there who don't pick up a sword everyday to practice. Spend most of their days sitting on their asses all day eating doritos and drinking soda. Try actually proving yourself worth and learn a technique of swordsmenship. I'll still have 30 years over you.
CthulhuFish42 5 months ago
@CthulhuFish42
None of what you said makes sense - maybe you should try to reiterate.
The Indians didn't invent steel in 3rd century BC - that's when they discovered Wootz: a "form" of steel.
Also, "folding" is the FIRST technique for steel weapon production, actually - everyone folded at first.
For example - around 3rd century BC, the ancient Celts were making excellent steel swords, using none other then the "folding technique" (actually, it's called steel lamination) - an interesting fact.
Zyamaman 5 months ago
@Zyamaman not to mention the Anglo-Saxon skleet swords folding and carbomnized steel as well. Asia didnt invent folding steel or carbonization just like it didnt invent writing that happened in different places and even before China started writing. I agree sword technology was created by necessity.
MsOneiroi77 5 months ago
@MsOneiroi77 invention of writing is credited to civilizations that independently invented it and not writing as a general concept, such cases of not inventing the writing is the adoption of Latin alphabets from the Romans by other civilisations. Also 'folding' steel have different techniques as some are independently developed. however if by Anglo-Saxon 'folding' is two forms of procedures; is twisting the pieces of steel together and hammered down to form patterns (pattern welding)
zeiitgeist 4 months ago
@MsOneiroi77 however the Japanese technique here is from the Chinese whereby they fold the billet and match up different pieces of steel for the core,edge and side ranging from hard to soft; later hammered and differentially hardened. This technique was already present in spring-autumn period of Chinese history experimented on Bronze and early Iron/Steel works. Despite earlier iron weapons; it fully replace bronze in the Han era also STANDARD issue weapons for the military were polearms
zeiitgeist 4 months ago
@MsOneiroi77 To add further early 'steel swords' did not have pattern welding and were on par or weaker than bronze swords as bloom furnace do badly at increase the hardness of the iron (carbon content) which results it more prone to bending (look up blast furnace). here is an example of a Chinese spring and autumn period sword 'Sword of Goujian'. Oh, and the invention of writing generally is debated 'look up Jiahu Symbols'.
zeiitgeist 4 months ago
@zeiitgeist no writing was invented in many places over many different periods. Sumerian, the Americas never were influenced by China and it would be arrogant of the Chinese to say they invented it and influenced all humanity. They didnt.
MsOneiroi77 4 months ago
@MsOneiroi77 I did not say they ( Sumerians, Meso-america) were influenced by Chinese writing, rmb i did put in my previous post 'independent invention' for convenience sake and also note that writing have different forms like logogram, cuneiform, ideogram and so on. Also, it seems to me many people when in regards to China; uses the whole world against it such as Europe vs China instead of individual countries.
zeiitgeist 4 months ago
@tulkasainur
And for the record, I didn't say that a Katana is a SHITTY sword per say, just not a very good FIELD weapon.
Personally, I'd choose it as a every-day personal self-defense weapon - it leaves the sheathe faster than you can blink, it carves motherfuckers up like it's cool, what else do you need?
Zyamaman 6 months ago
@lilsm555
Uhh, I don't know why I'm even replying to this. It's degrading...
The method used in Katana making is called steel lamination. It's a technique born out of necessity, due to the inability of the early smiths to properly smelt iron, which led to very inconsistent steel quality.
So they combined pieces of low-carb steel and high-carb, and banged them together to produce the carbon content they needed.
Zyamaman 7 months ago
@Zyamaman technology is a bad word *method.
lilsm555 7 months ago
swordsmith GASSAN Sadatoshi is National Treasure in Japan!
RevKuban 7 months ago
@Zyamaman I dunno, how about you mentioning some fucking examples?
Elenkhos 7 months ago
@Elenkhos
Examples of WHAT?
You've been jumping topics so fast I don't even YOU know what you're trying to discuss right now...
Zyamaman 7 months ago
@Zyamaman Oh! Sorry, swords, Indian swords, you were making a claim
Elenkhos 7 months ago
@Elenkhos
Actually, I was putting much more emphasis on the point about steel production.
The point about meeting demands imposed by tactical requirements... Japanese smiths were able to meet those demands just as well.
It's just that their tactical necessities were much more narrowly defined, and thus they could afford to commit themselves to one blade design, tailored for their specific needs.
It's more of a point regarding the Japanese isolationist policies, than anything else, really...
Zyamaman 7 months ago
@Zyamaman Very good comment, exact and true, better than "you're and idiot" and "You're pathetic" comments...lol
Elenkhos 7 months ago
@Elenkhos
I'm altogether more likeable when I'm not hung-over :)
Zyamaman 7 months ago
@Elenkhos
As for the superior steel I was talking about, I was referring to crucible steel in general, and Indian Wootz particularly.
Zyamaman 7 months ago
@Elenkhos
And just why the fuck did you brought up casting methods when I was talking about the production of weapons-grade steel?
Zyamaman 7 months ago
if any had that katana for sales which is feature in the video please let me know i am willing to pay at a high price for that sword
taiwanlong 7 months ago
@KissakiSan An average katana takes a year to make while it is reheated. Research shows that when steel is reheated over and over again, it becomes stronger.
hasteve101 7 months ago
@hasteve101
Katana do not take a year to make. At most, the folding process is done about twenty times. It does not take a year to perform twenty folds.
Research such as what? Could you show me this research?
HereTheArtBegins 7 months ago
@Elenkhos
Not really. There isn't any actual evidence to this point. The claim that any one culture are the 'greatest sword makers in the world' is mostly based upon pop culture hype.
HereTheArtBegins 7 months ago
@HereTheArtBegins There is;matter of fact. It shows that if you re-heat steel over and over agian it becomes stronger. How many times do you think Europeons reheated their steel? Ha.
hasteve101 7 months ago
@hasteve101
Not only was folding used in Europe at least until the 16th century, but folding does not do what you suggest. Reheating does nothing to make a steel stronger, and in fact metallurgical analysis has shown that the folding process does nothing but homogenize the materials in an otherwise inconsistent steel.
HereTheArtBegins 7 months ago
@hasteve101
I'll offer some evidence here.
From "Traditional Japanese Sword Making from a Tatara Ingot As
Estimated from Microstructural Examination" By Jang-sik Park, published in ISIJ vol 44.
"The forge/fold operation, in turn, with its labor-intensive features, would not be an efficient manu-
facturing technique if the starting material were homogeneous in composition and structure unlike the Tatara ingot."
HereTheArtBegins 7 months ago
@hasteve101
So, here we have directly a quote stating that the forge-fold operation, which you call "reheating", does nothing if a steel is already homogeneous; which shows why folding is used less and less in more technologically sophisticated cultures than Japan.
Additionally, if we're looking at simple reheating...wouldn't you have to reheat a sword every time you want to shape it with hammering and/or heat treatment? Wouldn't it then be a universal attribute of sword manufacture?
HereTheArtBegins 7 months ago
i can work fr u as a slave but can teach nd gift me a samurai sword!
0ravi1 7 months ago
when is the next?
nnhai90 7 months ago
this is the reason i wanna live in Japan, they have good technology but they still dont forget there traditions :))))) and faith
polengsantiago 7 months ago
this is the reason i wanna live in Japan, they have good technology but they still dont forget there traditions :)))))
polengsantiago 7 months ago
What does a sword of this caliber sell for?
nls8520 7 months ago
@nls8520 about as much as a used car.
easily upwards of $3,000 USD
apt95 7 months ago
@apt95 Thanks for the reply. For that level of craftsmanship I am not surprised.
nls8520 7 months ago
35 people dont like perfection...very sad for them.
oooodin 7 months ago
@CroissantOrange What the fuck is wrong with you, you racist bastard?
Greyfox198 7 months ago
So the American "gun culture" is for redneck and inbred, Nazi militarism is for brutes and inhuman abominations but for some reason the Samurai sword is associated with "beautiful art", honor and the "Bushido" (the art of keeping idiots in line) just because they wear pjs when making em. Are you guys stupid or what? I think in if they have the "way of the poop" or shit-do in Japan, you would dig it too right? you stupid nippon crotch sniffing little fucks.
CroissantOrange 7 months ago
@CroissantOrange please just let them live..
podster12 7 months ago
These Gentlemen are Japan's living treasures.
Ayatanoaqui 8 months ago
What a BEAUTIFUL art it would be an honor to have one made by a master like him. I'd stay awake just to see how he makes it. Just wish i can have one made by a master sordsmith.
14Kepic 8 months ago
His dark materials
sooupdragon 8 months ago
I wonder how much these katanas are worth!
Either way, I'll take 20!!!
diversereel 8 months ago
@diversereel About 3000US Dollars each.
Chaos2239 7 months ago
Truely deadly!!
Jayzc66 8 months ago
These people are performing religious tasks. The creation of swords and their proper polishing and sharpening is a religious act in Japan. The entire process is part of Shinto. That is one of the reasons that pre-Shogunate traditions of sword making forging and polishing survived into modern times.
lebarosky 8 months ago
they say if it doesn't cut a man's head off in one swipe...the sword is completely useless
JohnnyDeppRocks111 8 months ago
Man, what a true art........
ironknuckles05 8 months ago 7
@otsys77 $35,000 in some cases second hand (no real price drop for second hand in this area though) but the thing is, you cant get the out of japan. they do not let them through customs. only fake swords can leave (no edge and non ferius metal) they test them with a magnet at the airport so I am told.
Wookiee81 8 months ago
I wonder what a contemporary Katana folded by one of these masters would cost.
otsys77 8 months ago
Beautiful. Makes me want to buy one for keepsake
ericcartmansh 9 months ago
@rclarked You sir are incorrect. You want a softer core to accommodate heavier blows and harder more brittle edge.
gigashadowwolf 9 months ago
Amazing.
guy4boris 9 months ago
@rclarked no, he got it right. The higher carbon steel is used to form a rigid edge that retains it's sharpness while the "spine" of the katana is made of more flexible, low carbon steel so the sword can bend without shattering.
DuckDuckCamel1996 9 months ago 15
@DuckDuckCamel1996 many of the asian blades were made by combination of two or more metal compositions through a technique called pattern welding.
phadil 8 months ago
@phadil
Correction - many of the WORLD'S blades were made using the pattern welding technique.
It was practiced more or less uniformly throughout the entire world at one time or another, but NOT because it's such an excellent technique.
On the contrary - it was a practice forced on weaponsmiths due to the deficiencies of the early steel, which was of very inconsistent quality.
In most parts of the world, pattern welding died of when superior iron smelting methods were invented.
Zyamaman 8 months ago
@Zyamaman i stand corrected
phadil 7 months ago
what is the best steel katana? 1060? 1095? damasco? 12x 11x? thanks
losteden 9 months ago
the 34 dislikes do not understand the samurai
stbridget5 9 months ago 37
the katana is work of art, and having one is a responsibility. This work of art will not be dissolved, I believe that the Japanese government wouldn't let their tradition be gone.
XiaoYu143 9 months ago
Truly one of the disappearing art forms.
GainesIsALover 9 months ago
I wonder just HOW MUCH it would cost for a Katana made this way.. (the true way) they are almost priceless.. but they must sell them right?
SatansMullet 9 months ago
@SatansMullet i found some that are around $2600, but im sure they go even higher in price
EvilMonkeyDC 9 months ago
@SatansMullet such katana you see in this video will cost around 30.000 - 50.000$
Illendyourfamily 9 months ago
How do they make the blade sharp? I really want to know how.
napalmcannon 9 months ago
@rclarked no, the higher carbon steel is harder, it would be on the outside.
flingfready 9 months ago
A Hitori Hanzo sword!
mrfrankincense 10 months ago
how much would that cost? the final product.
ReMoRsEllWatson 10 months ago
The Katana is not a sword. It is a lifestyle
Aetos325 10 months ago
there appears to be yet more idiots fighting online... Good Job you 2.. you both win :|
miroku575 10 months ago
The knowledge should never be lost!
TheCivilEngineer22 10 months ago
every weapon have its pro's n con's right...
there is no need to argue about this..
even our malay traditional weapon, keris is also have its con...
so peace to all kayh...
:)
MrDarkcool 10 months ago
But if the warriors are strong then they could take out the rest of the enemies- The 300 Spartans for example if the goat path wasn't found they would have beaten the Persions epicly. :)
ARandomStranger88 10 months ago
@ARandomStranger88 That path was the reason they were winning also.
lilsm555 10 months ago
The Samurai sword (Katana) has some of the sharpest blades in the world, It's made of two kinds og steel. The Katana is also the most efective sword. Real awesome huh? :D
kamikaze8625 10 months ago
The goals behind the smiths of Europe and Japan differed vastly. The Europeans in general had greater access to iron ore and as such it was to their benefit to mass produce swords of an "inferior" quality. The Japanese were very limited with iron and thus sword breakage was unacceptable. The difference of these swords was really a matter of needs.
theodofustwinsword 10 months ago
@theodofustwinsword Japan has limited source of iron. Swordsmiths developed methods to turn iron into good quality steel. Only the top quality steel like the tamahagane is used to forge the katana. It took weeks to make a katana where it took only a few days to make a European broadsword. The broadsword is a heavier weapon and brute strength is needed to wield it. The katana is lighter weapon and it takes techniques and skills to master its usage.
MrLantean 10 months ago
@MrLantean First I'd like to state that ANY weapon requires a good deal of skill to wield. Just thrashing about and hoping to land a blow will get you killed. I am quite aware of the scarcity of iron in Japan as I have already mentioned. The point I was trying to make is that militaristic needs differed. It was better for European smiths to provide a massive amounts of swords in a short period of time due to an abundance of steel.
theodofustwinsword 10 months ago
@MrLantean Further smiths in Europe still employed many techniques to strengthen their blades despite the speed at which they were made, they just never had a need to go to the lengths the Japanese did. While katanas are quite strong the labor hindered the speed of production. It's a tactical advantage to have many soldiers outfitted quickly rather than give a handful of men a superior weapon in the same time span. I am not putting down katanas, just saying give the other weapons their respect
theodofustwinsword 10 months ago
@theodofustwinsword Forging a katana is labour intensive. A master sworsmith requires assistance from his apprentices for hammering and folding the steel. In Japan, only samurais and a selected few were allowed to carry swords. In Europe, anyone can own a sword as long he has money. European soldiers can be equiped with a sword due the greater access to iron while in Japan samurais are the only one that carry swords.
MrLantean 10 months ago
@MrLantean I am failing to see your point as much of this is information I previously stated. If there is something you would like to discuss please share it as I can not see what you are trying to get at.
theodofustwinsword 10 months ago
@theodofustwinsword
Mass production can not be used to describe European sword smithing in any way whatsoever. Not only were there not standard models, but the variation between each individual sword is staggering at times. What you actually have in Europe is a wider market pressure on sword smiths to produce a wide variety of swords of differing characteristics. No one "churned out" swords.
Lower quality swords were made in Japan as well, particularly during the Sengoku Jidai.
Caliburnis 10 months ago
@Caliburnis I use the term rather loosely. If you had read my previous posts you would realize I am hardly criticizing European swords. The truth is the manner in which they were created was less time consuming and less labor intensive in comparison. In an arms race European smiths would be able to amass more swords than Japanese. So I believe my use of the word is fairly accurate in terms of blade smithing.
theodofustwinsword 10 months ago
@theodofustwinsword
I'm not really saying you're criticizing them at all, just that you're mischaracterizing the nature of swordsmithing in Europe. What actually happened is that there was a wider market for swords, and Europeans had technologies that made it easier to produce quality swords. For instance, there is evidence that the price of iron and steel goods dropped about 90% from 1200-1300 due to advances in technology. That's because it was easier to get than before.
Caliburnis 10 months ago
@theodofustwinsword
Much of what you're saying really may not be that off the mark. It's probably that you're just using bad words to explain your ideas. Not even a loose definition of "mass production" can describe the European sword market. Making swords of an "inferior" quality due to more access to iron ore is /definitely/ not true because steel is still very very costly to produce; sword quality steel even moreso.
Caliburnis 10 months ago