I guess if someone threw a football and that idiot in the biplane hit that, then I guess we would need a Federal government agency to regulate flying footballs. This is a pretty stupid thing to make an issue out of, because first of all, why on earth is someone flying a biplane that close to where people are flying model planes or whatever else they're doing there, OR what on earth are people doing flying model planes at an airport. Seems like a stupid prize for playing a stupid game to me.
to me seems like the guy flying the biplane was trying to hit it or didnt see it and shouldnt even been flying that close to people on a runway. i blame the guy in the biplane.
@14omega28ok shows his intelligence by using profanity in a open fourm. yes that little F#$%@(*% airplane can kill someone especially if the engine part would have gone through the full scales canopy and hit the pilot in the face you moron. gezzz grow up dude!
Im sorry, but the pilot has right of way unless a notam was posted on this. Hes allowed to make as many low passes as he wants as long as its a registered airport. Not saying he shouldnt have made the pass, but if u hear a plane coming, i would get that rc out of there. Technically the rc pilot is at fault for this.
@novsierra This is not true. He must be at 500/1000ft AGL unless it is for a purpose of takeoff or landing. FAA regulation. He claimed he was doing a go-around because he had too much speed on approach, however this is unlikely since he did not climb at all, he only accelerated way past Vy/Vx without climbing
As an RC pilot, I can say that the most blame should take whoever allowed sharing airspace between RC and full scale at the same time. Clearly this WAS allowed. This is insane. Also, I don't see a spotter, and if there was one, he/she must have been sleeping on the job. The RC pilot had no way of knowing how to yield to the passing biplane because he couldn't (and shouldn't!) take his eyes off his model. I can only blame him for accepting the invitation to fly at such a badly organized event.
All in all, I am glad that nobody was hurt. Either way you look at it, two selfish people wanting to show off almost got someone killed. Stupidity does not have a place in the air, PERIOD! I am a full scale pilot and rc pilot.
I see two people at fault here. The full scale pilot is pulling a knucklehead move by "swooping" onlookers at an unsafe distance that breaks many FAR's. The RC pilot should have "ditched" his plane instead of trying to fly it somewhere that he did not know for sure was a safe place to be. The ground based radio operator should have warned the Bipe pilot to abort his pass attempt. Bottom line, if the full scale pilot would have died, the RC pilot could have been held accountable.
Yeah I know some full scale pilots who fly RC and full scale. Besides that most PUBLIC AND SOME PRIVATE airports were built with public tax dollars. i guess 30 minutes for rc activity is to much to ask from some half ass organized events. AND THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT MR GUMP
The guy flying the bipe should not have been that low with people (RC pilots or not) that close to the runway. That is very dangerous. One person posted that the bipe pilot was trying to land. If that is so, why in the hell does he have smoke on. The bipe pilot should not have been passing by at this point in time for safety reasons alone. As for RC and full-size in the same airspace. The operator of the airstrip should confirm that either ONLY RC or ONLY Full-size are in the air at once.
It was a private air strip, an invitational air show, with an RC club invited for a noon demo. Concurrent flight op's with Bipe Pilot deciding to make an unscheduled 2nd pass at the runway.
Thanks for that Comment radridz3. Bottom line is this. RC flyers should in no way ever be allowed to fly at any private or public airstrip. Period. Ever !! All these guys were in the wrong for allowing RC fliers to be flying in and around this airstrip used for Passenger planes.. Period !! Any public or private airstrip should be outlawed for RC use. Period. Way way too dangerous.
@geekfish Your insane.. Anyone that allows RC planes to fly at a passenger air strip is a knuckle head. Anyone that flies RC planes at a public or private air strip is a knuckle head. IF the shoe fits.. Wear it.... Axiomatic ......
@geekfish It is people like you geek that will get RC planes banned or regulated out of exsistance. Another Axiom for you.... another shoe to wear Geek..
Just viewed another video of this . It is around 5 mins. I can see there are lots of Passenger planes parked along side the runway. My Guess is that the Pilot of the Bipe could see all the planes and people and chose to do a pass first and see if the runway is clear. The Bipe picked a safe line up off to the side and away from the crowd and stuck with his line. If under instruction from someone or not, the RC pilot chose to move into the line of the Bipe pilot which was the wrong move. Period...
@grabir01 heres my 3 cents. First take the rc'er out of the picture. The bipe is clearly breaking 3 seperate rules with his flyby. Now the rc'er is not at fault. He would have never takin off and hovered over runway without permission .The person at fault is clearly the radio operator. Also rc people that fly gassers and 40% and up are knowledgable they dont just take off at a real runway without permission to taxi out. Think about it. .The bipe pilot will catch the most crap for this.
@grabir01 you are a idiot. I fly and never have I or anybody else i know who fly buzzes the runway at full speed with SMOKE turned on. the BI-plane pilot was hot dogging it and paid the price for his recklessness. Also I see several people with radios, If the BI-plane pilot followed procure he would have called out on HIS radio on entering Up wind, down wind and on final. but since he clearly was not landing he did none of that.
Also.. I see a guy on Radio. He sees the Bibe coming by. Seems like he is talking to someone maybe the guy flying the Bipe. Looks to me like the Guy in the Bipe is taking a line off to the side of the runway giving yeild to the RC guy. For some reason the RC pilot left his line over the runway and flew into the yeild path of the Bipe Pilot. This is Crazy.. It is like the RC pilot did not care at all. Unreal !!!
Clearly the RC Pilot could see the Passenger Plane coming in. Private or public, Fundamental Rule is when a Passenger plane is in the area, RC planes are on the Ground!! Period !! Passenger Plane has right of way and for good reason, there are lives at risk. This RC flyer should have been aressted. I hope this RC flyer is sued for all he's worth.
@slammerf16 An RC Show? Anytime you fly an RC and there is someone else with you, it is a show.. Right ? Guy should have yeilded the air space. Period. Clearly the Bipe Pilot was Yeilding by flying off line to the side and up from the runway. Clearly. As for speed. Who cares? Except the speed should have told those on the ground this was a pass and not a landing attempt. So why did the RC guy move from where he was?The RC guy not only moved off his runway line but gained altitude as well.Nuts!
@grabir01 Have you ever flown an RC aircraft? Your eyes have to be on the plane at all times. If you take your eyes off your plane to look around to see what's going on, you will most likely crash. I'm sure he heard the bipe coming, but had no way of knowing where it was in relation to his plane because he was facing the other way.
is my undertanding, the faa does control air space, 2nd full side aircraft is allways first, 3er, yes was a event but the people in charge of the even should be more carefull, specially when full size aircraft is arround. And yes the FAA can give a fine and even jail for a accident, if a rc airplane is involved and life is lost. This people are lucky. Sorry for the rc, but could be worse.
Obviously the pilot in the biplane was pissed that the RC pilot wouldn't get off the runway for him to land, so the pilot in the biplane solved that. :P hahaha
FAA does control airspace. and perhaps the pilot WAS doing a low pass (while showing off yes) to make sure the area was clear of people. When i fly into back country airstrips (yes I know it's different) I often have to do a low approach to make sure there are no animals on the runway. Even though that is a big rc, it can still be difficult to see from a fast moving aircraft. I can recall nearly hitting a hawk I couldnt see until i was close enough to see it's EYES!
@foxboy13579 no. they want to know why he (rc) was flying at the airport probably. and maybe also why the biplane pilot was doing a low flyby within first of all 500 above the ground. since he was at an airstrip maybe? they want to know why he was doing a flyby within 50ft of any person or object. if he denies that he knew there were people there they want to know why he did a flyby. faa is stupid when it comes to stuff like this. they will most likely suspend the pilots liscence.
@foxboy13579 that is of course if there is no reason for this. from what I understand it was an Event they had going on. so Airboss most likely at fault. depends. but No faa doesnt control Rc
I cant wait to see what the faa says about this. The event air boss and orginizers should be the 1,s paying for the planes. The RC pilot never would have proceded to take off with clearance from the ground crew. This is why you dont let people have walky talkies without knowledge of protocol...I dont blame either pilot. .This video doesn't show the hole clip and after the crash the controller guy goes to talk to the pissed off rc pilot because he new he was at fault for poor communication. IMO
LOL! See the guy with the handheld radio, no doubt coordinating the biplanes smoke pass for some kind of cool viewing experience, video, or show, whatever. This looks like it was set up in advance, except the midair. The biplane pilot who would have to be the final call in seperation, as the rc pilot's eyes must be glued to the model, cannot be (as far as we know) used to judging seperation with the optical illusion of a 50% or maybe 33% scale model. Look for more rules and regs in the future..
He was paying far too much attention to the RC demo than to actual air traffic. Therefore RC should have never been allowed access to an active runway.
He was paying far too much attention to the RC demo than to actual air traffic. The RCer appears oblivious to everything but his plane and the biplane will have limited forward visibility. When RC and manned aircraft are around each other there needs to be far better coordination. IF the organizers wanted to use the runway for RC they should have NOTAMed it closed and placed big yellow Xs on it. Instead they opened the even to manned aircraft that would need that runway.
The organizers of this event had no NOTAM that the runway was to be used for RC model demos, the RCer was flying in contravention to AMA guidelines and the biplane was doing some sort of demo/go around. It seems that each part has a partial responsibility, but I have to lay the most blame at the organizers feet. I have seen the complete video and there was an even organizer playing the role of air traffic coordinator.
@radridz3 Here is what it all boils down to. The RC pilot had no business playing with his toy on an active runway, end of discussion. There were real airplanes flying. Regardless of why this biplane pilot aborted his landing once a pilot is on final it is that pilot's runway to either land on or go around. This RC pilot is completely at fault for: 1. being negligent 2. foolishness for playing on an active runway. He could have been on the taxiway.
@arparadis the biplane was no way going for a landing!.. he could obviously see people on the runway and plus he had smoke on,, trryin to show off.. duh!
@arparadis The biplane was not on landing approach - it was in a pattern for a smoke-on fly-by. The guy on the hand-held radio was in communication with the pilot, and the full-scale pilot knew there was RC activity at the field. The air strip is a private air strip with no control tower. There was apparently a mis-communication between the two pilots via the radio guy. All three should be held accountable for their part in the incident. End of discussion.
@arparadis RC Pilot was NOT at fault. He was invited and authorized by the organizers to preform the demo flight and should have had exclusive use of the runway. The BiPlane pilot may have buzzed the field (smoke on) unannounced, but the fact is, the field should have been CLOSED during the RC operations. The BiPlane pilot would have had little or no visibility directly forward and obviously could not see the RC aircraft. Event organizers 100% responsible, but these were unusual circumstances.
@arparadis Rc guy would have never taxi-ed out with out permission. And Bip pilot is responsible for making sure the strips clear after air boss clears him with radio communication. I really dont think the pilots are at fault I believe the walkie talkie guy should pay for his poor communication skills. IMO
@arparadis You are quite the broken record on this. Your disdain and condescension toward the RCer doesn't change the fact that he believed he very much DID have business flying there. Of the three, RCer, "Air Boss" and bipe pilot, ONLY the bipe pilot is subject to FAA administrative law. Sharing blame with the other two won't save him from his culpability and the FAR consequences for his failure to 'see and avoid'. No amount of whining about the RCer will save him from that fate.
@phishstyx Well. what if its a city owned airport and the rcer is violating the airspace? i know faa doesnt govern rcs but maybe a fine for causing a dangerous situation. again IF the rcer had no reason to be there.
Some years ago I was flying one of 6 r/c planes at the end of a closed runway - but one guy decided to use it to takeoff in his vintage (radioless) plane. He flew straight through the middle of us at about 50 feet and 60 knots while 6 r/c planes scattered. Fortunately our planes were faster than his. Never did find out if he got reported.
@TheophilusPWildbeest - Your comment illustrates exactly why r/c aircraft have no business flying at full scale airports - closed or open - thats the big picture people - most posters are stuck on minutia, FAR regs and assigning blame. FAA needs to send modelers back to model airports that exist at a safe distance from full scale manned aviation - period. What's the difference between a bird and an r/c plane with respect to FS aviation?? Both are a safety of flight hazard to airborne humans.
@149PCE Hey, i'm with you on this. We nearly shit when he came at us, and it was 30 years ago on a small airfield. We were a half mile south of the active east-west runway, at the end of a closed north/south runway, and we had ATC permission. Everyone learns lessons - that was one of ours, I guess it was one of his.
All 3 parties have considerable blame. RC Pilot, Full Scale Pilot and Airport Operator. Each violated documented guidance and best practices for their role. There is no need to have a blame-fest argument. The FAA will sort it out.
I was performing Touch and go's when my instructor and I had an Air prox with an RC aircraft, I found it fun. I didn't realize it could do so much damage well I didn't think about it. But it's logical it is equal mass with an "average" type of bird.
@charlieechovictor The ready to fly weight of the 126" 3DHS Slick in the video is roughly 45 lbs. So, it has considerable mass. The 200 CC engine is quite dense as well.
Very good. (91.13 is it) carless and reckless not that he was doing a low pass! I left out I was at an airshow. The 12.5k is a large catagory plane and you cannot do that stuff.. Again NOTAMs is the question. Imaging how much trouble the airport manager is in if there was no notam and it was a public airport. So many ways this could go. Glad no one was hurt.
Hey there, quote the FAR, I dont see anything for planes under 12,500lbs vs low pass. I have a 2006FAR/AIM, cant find anything. Did 3 in a L-39 in may infront of the feds in Houston in may at a local apt, no problem. As you agree the Notam vs private apt will be the issue.
@reltney20 it's the 91.13 "Careless & Reckless" catch all and possibly the 500' clearance rule. The fact that he hit something is going to bring scrutiny your L39 passes did not (but could have easily, read NTSB Order No. EA-5018
Many factors here. If it was a public used airport, a NOTAM would have warned the pilot and the airport would not be at fault. If it is a private airport, it could be tricky. A low pass is not against any FARs. The plane wasnt over the people, he was over the runway and the people were to the side of the runway. Again, the NOTAM vs private airport will be the issue as I see. Also, It is a Starduster, look at the struts and wing shape. Hard to tell unless you own one or the other. Cheers.
@reltney20 I beg to differ. A low pass like that IS against the FARs and there are several FAA actions going after pilots doing highspeed passes over runways. Unless using the runway for taking off or landing, the FARs clearly state that we can't fly aircraft within 500' of people or property (which he clearly was). Pilot can't argue this was an aborted landing, his smoke was on. That said, there definitely should have been a NOTAM.
Even if it was a pre-arranged flyby the pilot should have aborted the low flyby with people on the airstrip! Looks like quite a few people are going to be in the hot seat during the investigation. No one wins in a situation like this.
That wasn't a random buzz - it was pre-arranged for a show. Looks like the RC's spotter sucked ass...he had the radio in his hand and didn't do a good job at spotting.
And the RC pilot...what an ass! he could have killed someone and all he could worry about was his $8000 airplane
@stikmunkey The RC pilot was not an "ass" he was there by invitation for an organized event. He was flying under the permission and supervision of the event organizers. The so called "air boss" failed to manage separation and the bipe pilot created the situation by making an illegal highspeed pass.
@stikmunkey ok, so you fault the RC pilot for accepting the invitation and operating under the supervision of the event/airport authorities and blame him for 'almost killing someone'. You weren't on the Blagojevich jury were you?
@phishstyx No, I'm not...just saying that it wasn't cool for him to bitch about $8K when someone (or more) could have been dead. Anyhow, they'll have some sorting out to do with th FAA...I'm sure the FAA will be the kind of jury you're thinking about.
@stikmunkey Well to be fair, he did express concern for the safety of the pilot before complaining about his loss. From his perspective he was operating, with permission, in airspace that was supposedly reserved for his demonstration, when a hot-dogging pilot decided to do an illegal and uncoordinated highspeed pass. I'm not saying it was "cool" for him to complain, but I can understand why he felt that way.
@phishstyx The way I see it is that the RC guy flew a show in near a big crowd (not sure how that was sanction with AMA) then the Pitts pilot flew his plane over a "assembly of people" less than 500' surely and all this mayhem was directed by an "airboss" that is not qualify to do the job
@stikmunkey If the event organizers had acted properly and closed the airport during the demonstration, then I'm sure the AMA would have no issue. The demonstration wasn't too close to the spectators (I see people hovering over AMA RC fields all the time with people just as close). The AMA typically doesn't review exhibition events, they just publish standards and provide liability insurance. The standards were clearly violated with respect to clearing the airspace, but not spectator proximity.
@phishstyx . For starters you should get your facts straight: 1. The rules for this event stated that if there were any G.A. aircraft in the vicinity or pattern of the airport, RC planes are to be on the ground. This RC pilot did not follow the rules. The biplane pilot was making an aborted landing because of a tailwind. The main point is the RC pilot should have been on the ground. He damn near killed someone!
@arparadis In my view the bipe pilot damn near committed suicide. Aborted landing my ass. It may have started that way, but when he firewalled the throttle, popped smoke to put on a show for the crowd, it became a stunt. He failed to see and avoid. I'll bet $100 that the pilot gets a 91.13 violation for being careless and reckless. As for the RC pilot, yes, he shares some blame, but his blame is ignorance. He assumed the "Air Boss" was the authority and when he said "go fly" it was ok to do so.
@phishstyx What makes you think he was trying to show off? The fact that a real airplane was in the traffic pattern means the RC pilot should have been on the ground not in the air. I have ask you what you think a pilot is going to do with the throttle on a go around? If this biplane pilot was showing off he would not have been 100+ ft AGL. The only one I see as being careless and reckless is the RC pilot. My understanding is the airboss told the RC pilot to land and he ignored the instruction.
@arparadis The RC Plane is 10.5 foot ws. Comparing that to the distance between the full scale plane and the ground you can see that the FS plane was flying at ~30 feet off the deck (not 100+). People actually at the event confirm that it was 30 feet AGL & was not an attempted landing. The people on the runway count as being "over people". The pilot is responsible for ensuring the runway is clear of obstacles before doing that run. The airboss DID NOT tell him to land. Told him to go left.
@arparadis What makes me think he was trying to show off?!? "You strain credulity with that comment. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if you are the biplane pilot. I'm Instrument rated ASEL and an RC flyer. I've been invited to perform at demonstrations and like this RC pilot. I'm not psychic, nor do I have terminal radar sticking our of my arse. This RC flyer followed the instructions of the organizers, I think your beef is with them.
@arparadis tail wind landing my ash he blew smoke and was showin off. The rc guy was cleared to fly but communication between the air boss and ground is who should be blamed. This is why you dont let OLD GUYS FLY WITH YOUNG GUYS. Works the same way in cars you try and avoid the old people all day....RT.....ANSWER THIS if it was a failed landing why is he all out blowin smoke at 30' off the deck. Thats how the Bip pilots gonna try and get out of his 91.13.. Missed Approach my ash...........
Guys buzz these rc fields all the time, it was only a matter of time before someone didn't pay enough attention to what was going on on/near the ground
@flynmid This wasn't an RC field, it was a public airport during some sort of fly-in or aviation day. The organizers should have closed the airport during the RC exhibition.
I guess if someone threw a football and that idiot in the biplane hit that, then I guess we would need a Federal government agency to regulate flying footballs. This is a pretty stupid thing to make an issue out of, because first of all, why on earth is someone flying a biplane that close to where people are flying model planes or whatever else they're doing there, OR what on earth are people doing flying model planes at an airport. Seems like a stupid prize for playing a stupid game to me.
grabyourgat 2 weeks ago
WTF?? Wow....
ChanseLFD 1 month ago
to me seems like the guy flying the biplane was trying to hit it or didnt see it and shouldnt even been flying that close to people on a runway. i blame the guy in the biplane.
some19872003 4 months ago
Like your going to fucking hurt a real plane with a tiny ass model airplane
14omega28ok 5 months ago
@14omega28ok
Like you're going to fucking hurt a real jet airliner full of 155 people with some tiny ass geese.
oh, wait...
DarqeDestroyer 3 months ago
@14omega28ok shows his intelligence by using profanity in a open fourm. yes that little F#$%@(*% airplane can kill someone especially if the engine part would have gone through the full scales canopy and hit the pilot in the face you moron. gezzz grow up dude!
jetcat4445t 3 weeks ago
great... one more strike against model airplanes
nibbler125 7 months ago
i live near that airport and it is a private community strip.
citrix69 9 months ago
now they need ATRC. Air traffic remote control.
blegukutuk 9 months ago 4
This pilot should be in jail for lieing to the NTSB that this was a "go around"
aratidwell 11 months ago
too bad nobody died
savemyplaylist 11 months ago
Oh yeah, and the ntsb report is calling the rc pilot responsible.
novsierra 1 year ago 3
Im sorry, but the pilot has right of way unless a notam was posted on this. Hes allowed to make as many low passes as he wants as long as its a registered airport. Not saying he shouldnt have made the pass, but if u hear a plane coming, i would get that rc out of there. Technically the rc pilot is at fault for this.
novsierra 1 year ago
@novsierra This is not true. He must be at 500/1000ft AGL unless it is for a purpose of takeoff or landing. FAA regulation. He claimed he was doing a go-around because he had too much speed on approach, however this is unlikely since he did not climb at all, he only accelerated way past Vy/Vx without climbing
aratidwell 11 months ago
As an RC pilot, I can say that the most blame should take whoever allowed sharing airspace between RC and full scale at the same time. Clearly this WAS allowed. This is insane. Also, I don't see a spotter, and if there was one, he/she must have been sleeping on the job. The RC pilot had no way of knowing how to yield to the passing biplane because he couldn't (and shouldn't!) take his eyes off his model. I can only blame him for accepting the invitation to fly at such a badly organized event.
fgene71 1 year ago 14
All in all, I am glad that nobody was hurt. Either way you look at it, two selfish people wanting to show off almost got someone killed. Stupidity does not have a place in the air, PERIOD! I am a full scale pilot and rc pilot.
listo120 1 year ago
I see two people at fault here. The full scale pilot is pulling a knucklehead move by "swooping" onlookers at an unsafe distance that breaks many FAR's. The RC pilot should have "ditched" his plane instead of trying to fly it somewhere that he did not know for sure was a safe place to be. The ground based radio operator should have warned the Bipe pilot to abort his pass attempt. Bottom line, if the full scale pilot would have died, the RC pilot could have been held accountable.
listo120 1 year ago
oh damn ... it dead
mhoffman01245 1 year ago
PWNED
chiahandidi 1 year ago
Yeah I know some full scale pilots who fly RC and full scale. Besides that most PUBLIC AND SOME PRIVATE airports were built with public tax dollars. i guess 30 minutes for rc activity is to much to ask from some half ass organized events. AND THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT MR GUMP
willrobinson08 1 year ago
The guy flying the bipe should not have been that low with people (RC pilots or not) that close to the runway. That is very dangerous. One person posted that the bipe pilot was trying to land. If that is so, why in the hell does he have smoke on. The bipe pilot should not have been passing by at this point in time for safety reasons alone. As for RC and full-size in the same airspace. The operator of the airstrip should confirm that either ONLY RC or ONLY Full-size are in the air at once.
PuryearRC 1 year ago
It was a private air strip, an invitational air show, with an RC club invited for a noon demo. Concurrent flight op's with Bipe Pilot deciding to make an unscheduled 2nd pass at the runway.
zealotoi812 1 year ago
Thanks for that Comment radridz3. Bottom line is this. RC flyers should in no way ever be allowed to fly at any private or public airstrip. Period. Ever !! All these guys were in the wrong for allowing RC fliers to be flying in and around this airstrip used for Passenger planes.. Period !! Any public or private airstrip should be outlawed for RC use. Period. Way way too dangerous.
grabir01 1 year ago
@grabir01 Your a knucklehead... Biplane was out of line.....
geekfish 1 year ago
@geekfish Your insane.. Anyone that allows RC planes to fly at a passenger air strip is a knuckle head. Anyone that flies RC planes at a public or private air strip is a knuckle head. IF the shoe fits.. Wear it.... Axiomatic ......
grabir01 1 year ago
@grabir01 Contest are held at air fields and AFB's knucklehead..... It was bad judgement on the Biplane to buzz the runway.
geekfish 1 year ago
@geekfish It is people like you geek that will get RC planes banned or regulated out of exsistance. Another Axiom for you.... another shoe to wear Geek..
grabir01 1 year ago
Just viewed another video of this . It is around 5 mins. I can see there are lots of Passenger planes parked along side the runway. My Guess is that the Pilot of the Bipe could see all the planes and people and chose to do a pass first and see if the runway is clear. The Bipe picked a safe line up off to the side and away from the crowd and stuck with his line. If under instruction from someone or not, the RC pilot chose to move into the line of the Bipe pilot which was the wrong move. Period...
grabir01 1 year ago
@grabir01 heres my 3 cents. First take the rc'er out of the picture. The bipe is clearly breaking 3 seperate rules with his flyby. Now the rc'er is not at fault. He would have never takin off and hovered over runway without permission .The person at fault is clearly the radio operator. Also rc people that fly gassers and 40% and up are knowledgable they dont just take off at a real runway without permission to taxi out. Think about it. .The bipe pilot will catch the most crap for this.
radridz3 1 year ago
@grabir01 you are a idiot. I fly and never have I or anybody else i know who fly buzzes the runway at full speed with SMOKE turned on. the BI-plane pilot was hot dogging it and paid the price for his recklessness. Also I see several people with radios, If the BI-plane pilot followed procure he would have called out on HIS radio on entering Up wind, down wind and on final. but since he clearly was not landing he did none of that.
citrix69 9 months ago
Also.. I see a guy on Radio. He sees the Bibe coming by. Seems like he is talking to someone maybe the guy flying the Bipe. Looks to me like the Guy in the Bipe is taking a line off to the side of the runway giving yeild to the RC guy. For some reason the RC pilot left his line over the runway and flew into the yeild path of the Bipe Pilot. This is Crazy.. It is like the RC pilot did not care at all. Unreal !!!
grabir01 1 year ago
Clearly the RC Pilot could see the Passenger Plane coming in. Private or public, Fundamental Rule is when a Passenger plane is in the area, RC planes are on the Ground!! Period !! Passenger Plane has right of way and for good reason, there are lives at risk. This RC flyer should have been aressted. I hope this RC flyer is sued for all he's worth.
grabir01 1 year ago
@grabir01 what passenger plane are you talking about? the bi-plane? sorry but thats not a passenger plane.
citrix69 9 months ago
Hey look, an RC show with people on the runway
Smoke on, 30 feet, full throttle - GO!
He could have killed people on the ground too, that guy needs to lose his license.
slammerf16 1 year ago
@slammerf16 An RC Show? Anytime you fly an RC and there is someone else with you, it is a show.. Right ? Guy should have yeilded the air space. Period. Clearly the Bipe Pilot was Yeilding by flying off line to the side and up from the runway. Clearly. As for speed. Who cares? Except the speed should have told those on the ground this was a pass and not a landing attempt. So why did the RC guy move from where he was?The RC guy not only moved off his runway line but gained altitude as well.Nuts!
grabir01 1 year ago
@grabir01 Have you ever flown an RC aircraft? Your eyes have to be on the plane at all times. If you take your eyes off your plane to look around to see what's going on, you will most likely crash. I'm sure he heard the bipe coming, but had no way of knowing where it was in relation to his plane because he was facing the other way.
rcgflatulator 1 year ago
this was the full scale pilots fault. This was a private airshow so the problem was a breakdown of communication
malydilnar 1 year ago
imagine the look on his face... i bet that rc plane was not cheap.
flyer176 1 year ago
is my undertanding, the faa does control air space, 2nd full side aircraft is allways first, 3er, yes was a event but the people in charge of the even should be more carefull, specially when full size aircraft is arround. And yes the FAA can give a fine and even jail for a accident, if a rc airplane is involved and life is lost. This people are lucky. Sorry for the rc, but could be worse.
maxun1 1 year ago
Obviously the pilot in the biplane was pissed that the RC pilot wouldn't get off the runway for him to land, so the pilot in the biplane solved that. :P hahaha
I'm glad no one was hurt though :\
RoboTekno 1 year ago
FAA does control airspace. and perhaps the pilot WAS doing a low pass (while showing off yes) to make sure the area was clear of people. When i fly into back country airstrips (yes I know it's different) I often have to do a low approach to make sure there are no animals on the runway. Even though that is a big rc, it can still be difficult to see from a fast moving aircraft. I can recall nearly hitting a hawk I couldnt see until i was close enough to see it's EYES!
outraged70 1 year ago
i know this airport its connected to a bunch of houses as a community airport
TORCHforAMERICA 1 year ago
the FAA has control of rc planes?
foxboy13579 1 year ago
Comment removed
radridz3 1 year ago
@foxboy13579 no they dont
radridz3 1 year ago
@foxboy13579 no. they want to know why he (rc) was flying at the airport probably. and maybe also why the biplane pilot was doing a low flyby within first of all 500 above the ground. since he was at an airstrip maybe? they want to know why he was doing a flyby within 50ft of any person or object. if he denies that he knew there were people there they want to know why he did a flyby. faa is stupid when it comes to stuff like this. they will most likely suspend the pilots liscence.
straighttailpilot 1 year ago
@foxboy13579 that is of course if there is no reason for this. from what I understand it was an Event they had going on. so Airboss most likely at fault. depends. but No faa doesnt control Rc
straighttailpilot 1 year ago
I cant wait to see what the faa says about this. The event air boss and orginizers should be the 1,s paying for the planes. The RC pilot never would have proceded to take off with clearance from the ground crew. This is why you dont let people have walky talkies without knowledge of protocol...I dont blame either pilot. .This video doesn't show the hole clip and after the crash the controller guy goes to talk to the pissed off rc pilot because he new he was at fault for poor communication. IMO
radridz3 1 year ago
RC planes are not compatable with the real thing. My freind got bitched at just for letting it taxi around at an airport he keeps a plane at
w29bum 1 year ago
LOL! See the guy with the handheld radio, no doubt coordinating the biplanes smoke pass for some kind of cool viewing experience, video, or show, whatever. This looks like it was set up in advance, except the midair. The biplane pilot who would have to be the final call in seperation, as the rc pilot's eyes must be glued to the model, cannot be (as far as we know) used to judging seperation with the optical illusion of a 50% or maybe 33% scale model. Look for more rules and regs in the future..
tubernation1 1 year ago
He was paying far too much attention to the RC demo than to actual air traffic. Therefore RC should have never been allowed access to an active runway.
smigaldi 1 year ago
He was paying far too much attention to the RC demo than to actual air traffic. The RCer appears oblivious to everything but his plane and the biplane will have limited forward visibility. When RC and manned aircraft are around each other there needs to be far better coordination. IF the organizers wanted to use the runway for RC they should have NOTAMed it closed and placed big yellow Xs on it. Instead they opened the even to manned aircraft that would need that runway.
smigaldi 1 year ago
The organizers of this event had no NOTAM that the runway was to be used for RC model demos, the RCer was flying in contravention to AMA guidelines and the biplane was doing some sort of demo/go around. It seems that each part has a partial responsibility, but I have to lay the most blame at the organizers feet. I have seen the complete video and there was an even organizer playing the role of air traffic coordinator.
smigaldi 1 year ago
Comment removed
radridz3 1 year ago
@radridz3 Here is what it all boils down to. The RC pilot had no business playing with his toy on an active runway, end of discussion. There were real airplanes flying. Regardless of why this biplane pilot aborted his landing once a pilot is on final it is that pilot's runway to either land on or go around. This RC pilot is completely at fault for: 1. being negligent 2. foolishness for playing on an active runway. He could have been on the taxiway.
arparadis 1 year ago
@arparadis the biplane was no way going for a landing!.. he could obviously see people on the runway and plus he had smoke on,, trryin to show off.. duh!
read da vid info
darkhunterz 1 year ago
@arparadis The biplane was not on landing approach - it was in a pattern for a smoke-on fly-by. The guy on the hand-held radio was in communication with the pilot, and the full-scale pilot knew there was RC activity at the field. The air strip is a private air strip with no control tower. There was apparently a mis-communication between the two pilots via the radio guy. All three should be held accountable for their part in the incident. End of discussion.
JamesMorlan 1 year ago
@arparadis RC Pilot was NOT at fault. He was invited and authorized by the organizers to preform the demo flight and should have had exclusive use of the runway. The BiPlane pilot may have buzzed the field (smoke on) unannounced, but the fact is, the field should have been CLOSED during the RC operations. The BiPlane pilot would have had little or no visibility directly forward and obviously could not see the RC aircraft. Event organizers 100% responsible, but these were unusual circumstances.
KDanagger 1 year ago
@arparadis Rc guy would have never taxi-ed out with out permission. And Bip pilot is responsible for making sure the strips clear after air boss clears him with radio communication. I really dont think the pilots are at fault I believe the walkie talkie guy should pay for his poor communication skills. IMO
radridz3 1 year ago
@arparadis You are quite the broken record on this. Your disdain and condescension toward the RCer doesn't change the fact that he believed he very much DID have business flying there. Of the three, RCer, "Air Boss" and bipe pilot, ONLY the bipe pilot is subject to FAA administrative law. Sharing blame with the other two won't save him from his culpability and the FAR consequences for his failure to 'see and avoid'. No amount of whining about the RCer will save him from that fate.
phishstyx 1 year ago
@phishstyx Well. what if its a city owned airport and the rcer is violating the airspace? i know faa doesnt govern rcs but maybe a fine for causing a dangerous situation. again IF the rcer had no reason to be there.
straighttailpilot 1 year ago
Some years ago I was flying one of 6 r/c planes at the end of a closed runway - but one guy decided to use it to takeoff in his vintage (radioless) plane. He flew straight through the middle of us at about 50 feet and 60 knots while 6 r/c planes scattered. Fortunately our planes were faster than his. Never did find out if he got reported.
TheophilusPWildbeest 1 year ago
@TheophilusPWildbeest - Your comment illustrates exactly why r/c aircraft have no business flying at full scale airports - closed or open - thats the big picture people - most posters are stuck on minutia, FAR regs and assigning blame. FAA needs to send modelers back to model airports that exist at a safe distance from full scale manned aviation - period. What's the difference between a bird and an r/c plane with respect to FS aviation?? Both are a safety of flight hazard to airborne humans.
149PCE 1 year ago
@149PCE Hey, i'm with you on this. We nearly shit when he came at us, and it was 30 years ago on a small airfield. We were a half mile south of the active east-west runway, at the end of a closed north/south runway, and we had ATC permission. Everyone learns lessons - that was one of ours, I guess it was one of his.
TheophilusPWildbeest 1 year ago
@TheophilusPWildbeest Point taken - I wasn't trying to dump on you - just make a strong statement - thanks for the interesting story.
149PCE 1 year ago
@TheophilusPWildbeest You're playing on an active runway and you think the pilot's at fault?
CrashGames2108 1 year ago
All 3 parties have considerable blame. RC Pilot, Full Scale Pilot and Airport Operator. Each violated documented guidance and best practices for their role. There is no need to have a blame-fest argument. The FAA will sort it out.
3DDabbler 1 year ago
i love this commentator
thumper248 1 year ago
I sure hope there was a NOTAM about that.
pqwilrj 1 year ago
I was performing Touch and go's when my instructor and I had an Air prox with an RC aircraft, I found it fun. I didn't realize it could do so much damage well I didn't think about it. But it's logical it is equal mass with an "average" type of bird.
charlieechovictor 1 year ago
@charlieechovictor The ready to fly weight of the 126" 3DHS Slick in the video is roughly 45 lbs. So, it has considerable mass. The 200 CC engine is quite dense as well.
3DDabbler 1 year ago
hahahahah and that is the reason i don't like rc planes
gustavo87467357 1 year ago
Very good. (91.13 is it) carless and reckless not that he was doing a low pass! I left out I was at an airshow. The 12.5k is a large catagory plane and you cannot do that stuff.. Again NOTAMs is the question. Imaging how much trouble the airport manager is in if there was no notam and it was a public airport. So many ways this could go. Glad no one was hurt.
Cheers
reltney20 1 year ago
Hey there, quote the FAR, I dont see anything for planes under 12,500lbs vs low pass. I have a 2006FAR/AIM, cant find anything. Did 3 in a L-39 in may infront of the feds in Houston in may at a local apt, no problem. As you agree the Notam vs private apt will be the issue.
Cheers
reltney20 1 year ago
@reltney20 it's the 91.13 "Careless & Reckless" catch all and possibly the 500' clearance rule. The fact that he hit something is going to bring scrutiny your L39 passes did not (but could have easily, read NTSB Order No. EA-5018
phishstyx 1 year ago
Many factors here. If it was a public used airport, a NOTAM would have warned the pilot and the airport would not be at fault. If it is a private airport, it could be tricky. A low pass is not against any FARs. The plane wasnt over the people, he was over the runway and the people were to the side of the runway. Again, the NOTAM vs private airport will be the issue as I see. Also, It is a Starduster, look at the struts and wing shape. Hard to tell unless you own one or the other. Cheers.
reltney20 1 year ago
@reltney20 I beg to differ. A low pass like that IS against the FARs and there are several FAA actions going after pilots doing highspeed passes over runways. Unless using the runway for taking off or landing, the FARs clearly state that we can't fly aircraft within 500' of people or property (which he clearly was). Pilot can't argue this was an aborted landing, his smoke was on. That said, there definitely should have been a NOTAM.
phishstyx 1 year ago
Its a Pitts S1 maybe S2
3dbuster 1 year ago
watch?v=p3GHqMObjcM original youtube video posted by cameraman
phishstyx 1 year ago
lol pilot got good aim and dropped a good 10 feet it seems when stricking the little toy
crapper1 1 year ago
Even if it was a pre-arranged flyby the pilot should have aborted the low flyby with people on the airstrip! Looks like quite a few people are going to be in the hot seat during the investigation. No one wins in a situation like this.
nokithecat 1 year ago
That wasn't a random buzz - it was pre-arranged for a show. Looks like the RC's spotter sucked ass...he had the radio in his hand and didn't do a good job at spotting.
And the RC pilot...what an ass! he could have killed someone and all he could worry about was his $8000 airplane
stikmunkey 1 year ago
@stikmunkey The RC pilot was not an "ass" he was there by invitation for an organized event. He was flying under the permission and supervision of the event organizers. The so called "air boss" failed to manage separation and the bipe pilot created the situation by making an illegal highspeed pass.
phishstyx 1 year ago
@phishstyx Yeah, I know who he is and still think he's an ass...could have kill someone.
stikmunkey 1 year ago
@stikmunkey ok, so you fault the RC pilot for accepting the invitation and operating under the supervision of the event/airport authorities and blame him for 'almost killing someone'. You weren't on the Blagojevich jury were you?
phishstyx 1 year ago
@phishstyx No, I'm not...just saying that it wasn't cool for him to bitch about $8K when someone (or more) could have been dead. Anyhow, they'll have some sorting out to do with th FAA...I'm sure the FAA will be the kind of jury you're thinking about.
stikmunkey 1 year ago
@stikmunkey Well to be fair, he did express concern for the safety of the pilot before complaining about his loss. From his perspective he was operating, with permission, in airspace that was supposedly reserved for his demonstration, when a hot-dogging pilot decided to do an illegal and uncoordinated highspeed pass. I'm not saying it was "cool" for him to complain, but I can understand why he felt that way.
phishstyx 1 year ago
@phishstyx The way I see it is that the RC guy flew a show in near a big crowd (not sure how that was sanction with AMA) then the Pitts pilot flew his plane over a "assembly of people" less than 500' surely and all this mayhem was directed by an "airboss" that is not qualify to do the job
stikmunkey 1 year ago
@stikmunkey If the event organizers had acted properly and closed the airport during the demonstration, then I'm sure the AMA would have no issue. The demonstration wasn't too close to the spectators (I see people hovering over AMA RC fields all the time with people just as close). The AMA typically doesn't review exhibition events, they just publish standards and provide liability insurance. The standards were clearly violated with respect to clearing the airspace, but not spectator proximity.
phishstyx 1 year ago
@phishstyx We'll wait and see.
stikmunkey 1 year ago
@phishstyx . For starters you should get your facts straight: 1. The rules for this event stated that if there were any G.A. aircraft in the vicinity or pattern of the airport, RC planes are to be on the ground. This RC pilot did not follow the rules. The biplane pilot was making an aborted landing because of a tailwind. The main point is the RC pilot should have been on the ground. He damn near killed someone!
arparadis 1 year ago
@arparadis In my view the bipe pilot damn near committed suicide. Aborted landing my ass. It may have started that way, but when he firewalled the throttle, popped smoke to put on a show for the crowd, it became a stunt. He failed to see and avoid. I'll bet $100 that the pilot gets a 91.13 violation for being careless and reckless. As for the RC pilot, yes, he shares some blame, but his blame is ignorance. He assumed the "Air Boss" was the authority and when he said "go fly" it was ok to do so.
phishstyx 1 year ago
Comment removed
arparadis 1 year ago
@phishstyx What makes you think he was trying to show off? The fact that a real airplane was in the traffic pattern means the RC pilot should have been on the ground not in the air. I have ask you what you think a pilot is going to do with the throttle on a go around? If this biplane pilot was showing off he would not have been 100+ ft AGL. The only one I see as being careless and reckless is the RC pilot. My understanding is the airboss told the RC pilot to land and he ignored the instruction.
arparadis 1 year ago
@arparadis The RC Plane is 10.5 foot ws. Comparing that to the distance between the full scale plane and the ground you can see that the FS plane was flying at ~30 feet off the deck (not 100+). People actually at the event confirm that it was 30 feet AGL & was not an attempted landing. The people on the runway count as being "over people". The pilot is responsible for ensuring the runway is clear of obstacles before doing that run. The airboss DID NOT tell him to land. Told him to go left.
3DDabbler 1 year ago
@arparadis What makes me think he was trying to show off?!? "You strain credulity with that comment. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if you are the biplane pilot. I'm Instrument rated ASEL and an RC flyer. I've been invited to perform at demonstrations and like this RC pilot. I'm not psychic, nor do I have terminal radar sticking our of my arse. This RC flyer followed the instructions of the organizers, I think your beef is with them.
phishstyx 1 year ago
@arparadis tail wind landing my ash he blew smoke and was showin off. The rc guy was cleared to fly but communication between the air boss and ground is who should be blamed. This is why you dont let OLD GUYS FLY WITH YOUNG GUYS. Works the same way in cars you try and avoid the old people all day....RT.....ANSWER THIS if it was a failed landing why is he all out blowin smoke at 30' off the deck. Thats how the Bip pilots gonna try and get out of his 91.13.. Missed Approach my ash...........
radridz3 1 year ago
Guys buzz these rc fields all the time, it was only a matter of time before someone didn't pay enough attention to what was going on on/near the ground
flynmid 1 year ago
@flynmid This wasn't an RC field, it was a public airport during some sort of fly-in or aviation day. The organizers should have closed the airport during the RC exhibition.
phishstyx 1 year ago