Socialist Venezuela Saving Free Market Somalia

[IWANAROCKYEEEAAAA]

QUE VIVA VENEZUELA!

[cjbaynas]

good one venezuela!

[Ditl2]

LONG LIVE VENEZUELA!

[GodOfTheInternets]

@Ditl2

Fuck your bourgeois nationalism.

[reashot]

though the war in Somalia is over some people never seem to heard the message. May those Al-Shabaab burn in hell for what they did. on another note my country & Somalia has already signed a fishing agreement worth millions of dollar that will may help the Somalian economy.

[ComradeMr]

Viva la Chavez!

[lilhavanaboys]

The posters in the bg make the video better

[3sjh3]

Very interesting, good on Venezuela.

[jayBredd]

Western involvement in Somali history is truly disgusting. While Venezuelans try to save some, Americans and French are bombing and operating black site prison where they are torturing. Who are the moral actors here? It is obvious to any reasonable observer.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@jayBredd

I really don't see how Venezuelans are gonna be able to do much, You got pirates along the coast and ransom hungry hostage takers everywhere else, Somalians are very xenophobic of outsiders and non-Muslims in particular, If anything Venezuela should assist its neighbors next door like Haiti.

[jayBredd]

@Obasiliasfilosofos Yes it will be difficult, but don't underestimate how southern nations can help each other. In the 60s, tiny Cuba helped the Angolans liberate themselves from Portuguese fascists. Also Venezuela did try helping Haiti after the quake but they were blocked by Americans. It's no wonder why Somalis hate whites and Christians cuz they have been fucked by them since forever. Brits, French, Italians, Russians, Americans and Ethiopians have all made their lives hell for over 100yrs

[hotfudgemoney]

What makes any of you fools think that Marxism will work in Somalia? There is nothing of any value there other than human life, what do you suppose people do? Stop fighting? Sounds like a start... then what? Share everything? WOW GREAT IDEA. Maybe if people worked together and traded peacefully to get the things they need, their society would work a little better... but nah, trading is evil according to you lefties.

[hotfudgemoney]

Somalia is a fucking lefties wet dream. You guys jerkin' it hard? Why don't you go tell those Somali's your ideology is trying to profit off of their tarnished lives...

[WorldRevolutionaries]

Irony being, to the Venezuelan government, they view the people of Somalia as humans in need of assistance while the anarcho-capitalists won't even see what matters to them it's just another social sample to validate their sense of self-worth

[Hardworker1970]

@Sakedrinker007 Who knows how far we will go with Marxism. Capitalism has been around since the rise of humanity. We just have a basic technological knowledge in the past one hundred and fifty years. Guess what system was around when we finally got that. Marxism is only the begining to a journey that may happen.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@Hardworker1970 "Capitalism has been around since the rise of humanity."

Nope. Capitalism is only about 300 years old, probably less.

[Hardworker1970]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 State controlled Capitalism has been around for 300 years. Markets based upon Capitalism has been around for a while.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Sorry Julia, what he is trying to say is that Capitalism is just something that exists, it's bigger than any doctrine, and hence older than any other "political" ideology. Capitalism is merely the acknowledgment that trading is good and things can be used to "further" one's self. You wouldn't be bashing trade, would you? Where would you be without trade?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Yeah, because that's totally why the Mises Institute sings praise of Somalia as proof of why "anarcho"-capitalism "works".

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Man, too bad we can't make them Marxist so then we could turn the argument around. Somalia doesn't exactly have capital, and they're not exactly an economic paradise, regardless of philosophy.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Define "capitalism" so I know we're talking about the same system.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Well any lefties definition of what Capitalism is is different than mine. But you can't exactly call Somalia ancaps because they aren't exactly rejecting the government, and where are their property rights?

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney

You must have learned a very different definition of anarchy then that found in the anarchist political movement, Anarchy allows for popular gov in the form of direct democracy and the town council is one such example, Anarcho-capitalism is a dumb idea for rich folk to be promoting given that the hole point of the state is to protect the rich minority from the poor,  Anarchy is only viable under a socialist economy since capitalism will inevitably lead to class hierarchies.

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos I understand that you think Anarchy refers only to your Socialist wet dream, but really it is the abolition of coercion. I don't plan on coercing anyone, but I want private property and no government. So maybe you can make a name up for me. I don't think there's any rich people promoting anarcho capitalism as most "rich" folk like the state because it props up their big business. So how does government's purpose of helping the rich make Capitalistic anarchy impossible?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Even if "anarcho"-capitalism were possible, it wouldn't last very long if implemented. The ruling class would just recreate the state in order to maintain their wealth and power over others (especially the power they have over their wage slaves through owning the means of production). This is actually what's happening in Somalia right now. Read the academic journal articles by Christian Webersik.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 What makes you think there's a ruling class. Who's determining what the ruling class is. You're saying people are naturally power hungry and those with a lot of "things" or "paper" are going to exercise their power over you or I? Where else is the ruling class to be found? What wage slaves are you referring to. You mean those offering their abilities for some benefit? I forgot that's slavery. Exerting effort in one area to gain something in another.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 The ruling class would recreate the state? Don't you need the consent of the individuals living in an area to be considered a state? You suppose the people are going to just stand by? And suppose what you're saying should happen, how would another political ideology change that? What's "Libertarianism" going to do to keep the "ruling class" from existing? What's going to keep the "ruling class" from saying, "Public? No this is mine, fuck off."?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney They don't need the consent of anyone. The ruling class (that is, those who are in control of the most wealth and private property) will just find a way to bring the state back, and if enough people don't want the state back they'll just hire PR firms to convince everyone that having a state (although they probably wouldn't *call* it "the state") would be in their best interest.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Really? You don't foresee civil war then? And then what, is it really beneficial for the ruling class to destroy any lower classes? Sure some would submit, but others would rebel and in different ways. You're assuming that this would happen under "anarcho" capitalism, how bout under libertarian socialism, what's to prevent any sort of group from conspiring against the common people?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Because under libertarian socialism the power that the wealthy class has is destroyed so no one has the *incentive* to bring back the state. The thing about capitalism is that one sector of the population (the capitalists) will always have more power than the lower classes. This is a leadway into statism, as this upper class will have every incentive to create a state in order to preserve their power over others. It's happened before and will happen again if inequalities prevail.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Do you plan to use coercion to do that or by winning the "ruling class" over by example? I don't plan on coercing the wealthy out of their property, but I don't classes don't have to exist for anarcho capitalism to exist.

[MaoistRebelNews2]

@hotfudgemoney "classes don't have to exist for anarcho capitalism to exist." *FACEPALM*

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@MaoistRebelNews2 Maybe you should explain to this guy why capitalism can't function all that well unless there is a rich/poor division?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Dual power is a strategy that could be used to remove the power of the ruling classes. But in this day and age I feel the only way to achieve a stateless society and prevent the creation of a new state will have to come down to using *some* form of coercion. But let me ask you, do you think that some coercion is justified if it prevents a greater act of coercion?

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 If your answer is "the people", then we're in the same boat as "anarcho" capitalism as you so eloquently put it.

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos Oh, nice try, by the way.

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos The narrow minded view of Capitalism you fucking Liberals have is pathetic. Everyone who calls themselves Capital must view everything as a way to make a buck. They must have all these wants and desires for material goods, and they'll stop at nothing. They'll even go so far as to tear down the environment and infringe on the rights of others FOR MONEY AND POWER OVER OTHERS. THAT'S CAPITALISM.!~!

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney

You need to read up on John Locke, President James Madison arguments for why the state needs to exist ect.. Where there exists private property there needs to be a state with a legitimate monopoly on the use of force to protect it and also regulate & manage society.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@Obasiliasfilosofos THANK YOU for explaining that.

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos Who says there needs to be a monopoly on force for property to exist? You'd be assuming that the masses all do not support private property and that property owners would not retaliate against any sort revolt against them. Property does not need to be regulated and society does not need to be "centrally planned" which is essentially what you're saying.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Under a true stateless society, you would have nothing to prove your ownership of property you don't occupy and use.

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos So what imagine an leftist anarchist society, oh wait, that's right, we'll never get there because people will not surrender their property, but if they did, what's to stop a group from deciding they miss their property and terrorizing people until their property was restored?

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos My original comment stands. You have a narrow minded view of Capitalism if you believe some sort of monopoly on force is necessary to defend anyone's right to property.

[Scientisticsoviet]

@hotfudgemoney It certainly makes it easier if there is a military organization they can lobby to subsidize them or keep a oligopoly like status going. Not that it is necessary condition for olipolization or monopolization, granted.

[hotfudgemoney]

@Scientisticsoviet But how is a monopoly on force required for Capitalism?

[Scientisticsoviet]

@hotfudgemoney I didn't say it was. It just helps (particularly if a business wishes to expand in the same geographic area; Continuity of laws certainly makes it simpler).

[hotfudgemoney]

@Scientisticsoviet Oops, didn't mean to reply to you. These silly Liberals who think a philosophy that doesn't include a government cannot be Capitalistic.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney If I am ignorant of Capitalism I guess so is all the great classical liberalist philosophers of the last 3 centuries, Thomas Hobbes, Priestley, Richard Price and Thomas Paine,David Hume, Adam Smith, Adam Ferguson, Josiah Tucker, Edmund Burke and William Paley, The American founding fathers ect...

They have already long made the case for why the state is necessary in a capitalist society, I am afraid it is you who is ignorant.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Do you wanna show me that proof, by the way? So how would you propose we snap our fingers and turn Somalia into a Marxist paradise? Because I forgot once you claim you're Marxist everyone gets food and medicine even where there was previously none... It's some what like magic.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney And for the record, I'm an anarchist, not a marxist. You do realize that anarchists are socialists and have always been socialist too, right? Like, you do know it was P.J. Proudhon who inspired Marx to become a socialist, right?

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Anarchy has only ever manifested itself as Socialism/Communism, that does not make the term exclusive.

Who made Karl Marx a socialist is sort of irrelevant, but okay. 

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Name me some periods of anarchy/statelessness which were capitalist.

I can name a few which were socialist and/or communist.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 I never said there were any, I actually said the opposite. What does that have to do with Somalia hardly being a non aggressive, free market? Somalia is hardly free of coercion, either from gangs or from other governments interfering. The whole argument that Somalia is an Anarcho Capitalist state is absurd.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney

Anarcho-capitalism is an absurdity

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos LOL. Your lack of a real criticism shows me you know nothing about economics. Refute Capitalism reasonably and I'll consider responding. Most anti Capitalist rhetoric relies on the labor theory of value which is nothing but propaganda.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney

Anarcho-syndicalist is not to be compared with the reds , I can tell you its somwhere in-between your beliefs and the socialist, Anarcho-syndicalist are opposed to "Marxist-Leninism" since it gives the state rather then the workers control over the means of production and also just about everything else,

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 And if you want my definition of Capitalism it's vaguely on one of my other comments to you or someone else.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 That's because your impression of Capitalism is twisted.. You can't be a Capitalist unless you want to exploit people for all they're worth.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

I think even the american right would admit that Somalia would be better if it was marxist

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos LOL, so the gangs that control the food supply could now make actual "laws" that people had to follow and perhaps they could even be forced to give things up to help their fellow neighbors. OH WAIT, NO ONE IN SOMALIA HAS SHIT TO GIVE.

[jumpnjza2]

Your news just gets better and better and better and better. You have a future with this.

[lilhavanaboys]

Hahaha perfect!

[mistertakeda]

Feh. Prepare for some temporary, facile support of Venezuela by average, uneducated Somalis (who may not even realize the nation is Socialist), and then more tribal, Islamic face stomping. Should have ascertained exactly who represented the radical Leftist element, if such a thing exists in Somalia, and sent them food and guns. Chavez could have funded a revolution, rather than prop up the status quo for some PR points that nobody in the Western world will let him have anyway.

[MaoistRebelNews2]

@mistertakeda You know what would have happened if he had. INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM!!!!!! They already accused him of helping FARC.

[mistertakeda]

@MaoistRebelNews2 Run the food through small charity orgs and the weapons through "independent dealers," a la Viktor Bout? Antithetical to any sort of PR campaign, but much more effective at enacting real change.

Of course, if he did that we'd never hear a peep about it.

[Scientisticsoviet]

@MaoistRebelNews2 Yep. So very true. Chavez is learning to play the media image world better.

[TheCommunist100]

Capitalism: the cause of extinction of common sense.

[hammer2fall2k10]

But...but...Somalia is a libertarian paradise. At least that's what i tell anyone who says that "rugged individualism" is the solution to all of our problems. You want a life free of "gumment regulation" then go to Somalia, I'm sure your rugged individualist American self will LOVE it. As usual, Socialism is there to clean up the mess created by cry baby capitalism.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hammer2fall2k10 I swear to God, the only reason capitalism still exists is because the state is there to bail it out every time it flops.

[pbotas]

bring them to portugal too.

our governors seem to know nothing about agriculture too

[World0fWowcraft]

viva la Socialist Venezuela!

[LouieArrighi]

still processing??

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

I wonder how the stateless capitalist Mises drones are going to explain this.

Oh wait, they'll just shout out what they always do: "THAT'S NOT THE REAL CAPITALISM!!!!"

[RemoveYourChains]

@juliaisafilmbuff123

You took the words out of their mouths. :-)

An-caps are utopians.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@RemoveYourChains Not even utopians, just misinformed douchebags. Their entire "philosophy" has close to zero empirical evidence to prove it and simply relies on what its ideologues "think" will happen when the planets are aligned and everything fits their definition of "capitalism" and "anarchy".

[hotfudgemoney]

@RemoveYourChains Oh, but Libertarian Socialists aren't... It's a little more Utopian to expect everyone to believe coops are a good idea and entirely change their ideology than it is to believe people can be responsible for themselves entirely through trade.

[Scientisticsoviet]

@hotfudgemoney Indeed.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Nice try. LOL. You're trying to bash a system of government by claiming that a war torn country in Africa is an example of Capitalism. You do realize that Somalia is governed by gangs and warlords who control the food supply. How is that Capitalism? There is NO Capital in Somalia, hence why Capitalism does not work.

[lilhavanaboys]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 No better yet, according to one I am talking to he's in total denial about the famine and blames the U.N for trying to establish "Order"

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@lilhavanaboys Last time I heard it wasn't the UN that was trying to establish a centralized state in Somalia, but Somalia's business elite.

[lilhavanaboys]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Goes to show how ignorant Stateless Capitalist are. "Well Somalia has a better economy than counties around it." These people are a total joke, no wonder they don't exist outside of the internet.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@lilhavanaboys That's the thing: the business elite doesn't really give a shit about the "philosophical case for gold/silver as money" or whatever. The business class cares about maximizing their profits and creating an economy that will do so. They don't want the kind of economy that the stateless capitalists promote because they know it would go to hell very quickly simply because of capitalism's internal contradictions and unavoidable crises.

[lilhavanaboys]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Exactly and that is the contradiction with stateless capitalist is that they keep forgetting the Capitalist NEED a state in order to make sure THEY are kept safe and to ensure private interest and the market are protected.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@lilhavanaboys True that. Without the state, pretty much all hierarchical (capitalist) firms would fail or become de facto cooperatives since the bosses wouldn't be able to maintain their sole ownership of the means of production.

[lilhavanaboys]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Not to mention the Capitalist would lose their only muscle and boy of power that can suppress a Revolution.

[hotfudgemoney]

@lilhavanaboys There the Liberals go again with the "Capitalists need the state to protect everyone or else the share everything fags will take over".

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney When has capitalism EVER lived without a state?

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 "When has capitalism EVER lived without a state?" This isn't exactly proof of implausibility. When has Libertarian Socialism existed for an extended period of time? There are plenty of collective and little anarchist groups, but within quite a few of them have been individualist sects who support free markets and private property.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney What the fuck are you talking about? Stateless communism is where human society began. There are still groups on this world who have lived in primitive communism for thousands and thousands of years.

[Scientisticsoviet]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Nah, that's more like anarcho-primitivism.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 You'd have to be pretty pretentious to believe that the earliest human civilizations were Communists. They were Collectivists, but to refer to them as Communists specifically is using something that's not entirely true to propagate your ideology. Humans are Collectivists by nature, so? I'm not disagreeing with that. To say that those groups are Communistic is again, an exaggeration for your ideology to gain some clout.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 I'm sure those tribes have their own customs and ways of doing things and consequently, their own amounts of individualism. That being said, were you planning on addressing my other comment or just acting as if I had no knowledge of the world or civilization and so you were automatically correct? I'll have to post it again, just in case. Oh, and I'm pretty sure "society" began from trade. Living in small villages doesn't really count as "society", but if you say so.

[MaoistRebelNews2]

@hotfudgemoney A society without private property, money, government and everything is shared. Well, actually that is communism. Marx even called it primitive-communism.

[hotfudgemoney]

@MaoistRebelNews2 That's ironic. I'm saying that her calling the style Collectivism exhibited by pre-societal humanity Communism is pretentious... for the same reason Karl Marx using Communism to define those same groups as Communistic. Do you understand how that is clout for his argument? You're presuming "everything" is shared... How do you suppose there is NOTHING that is private? Was it carved into a stone science doesn't have?

[MaoistRebelNews2]

@hotfudgemoney Yo don;t know what private property is do you? private peoperty is somethign that you use to make a profit. There was no such thing then. There's a difference between that and personal property.

[hotfudgemoney]

@MaoistRebelNews2 LOL, so now private property only consists of property that is used for monetary gain..?

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney

Capitalist theory your clothes and your business are both considered private property, Where as in socialism distinctions exist between what is considered personal property & what is considered capital, Capital falls into anything that is a means of production that is not wanted for itself but for its ability to help in producing other goods.

[hotfudgemoney]

@MaoistRebelNews2 I think you should try using the words "productive property" instead of private property. But... are you going to go on to prove that "everything" was shared? Or address my claim of how yours and Marx's claim are pretentious? Also do you have proof that there was no form of currency for the exchange of things? I suppose you don't because that "Communism" evolved into societal living with trade... which eventually involved currency. And no government =/= Communism.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney

Communism does not mean "zero-property" as Karl Marx allowed for personal possessions , As nobody is expected to share toothbrushes and underwear for fucks sake, People have the right to own their belongings , and can exclude others from having them.

What's considered private property is factories, mines, dams, infrastructure,Land & buildings, Where as almost anything that is movable most likely will fall under personal property Clothing,Tv sets, automobiles, Jewelry ect..

[hotfudgemoney]

@Obasiliasfilosofos I fully understand that Marxism does not require I share my tooth brush or underwear, I was playing on the fact that you and the other lefties on here don't actively make that distinction. I also don't believe any of the men you speak of were deemed the last word on whether or not Capitalism required the State. Perhaps since you know so well why Capitalism needs the state, you could reiterate it for me... And don't give me the monopoly on force nonsense.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@hotfudgemoney

private defense and court firms would tend to represent the interests of those who pay them best. As a result, if economic power were concentrated in the hands a relatively small number of people, they would immediately dominate a society politically under market anarchism leading to a de facto fascism.

[hotfudgemoney]

@MaoistRebelNews2 Fucked the grammar up on that one, eh? That should read more like "Her defining their form of Collectivism as Communism is pretentious for the same reason Marx was pretentious in believing his ideology was being used by primitive humans."

[hotfudgemoney]

@MaoistRebelNews2 HARRO!~!>?~?!~

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Have you actually studied anthropology? There are *still* groups of people which live in perpetual primitive communism who would be called libertarian socialist.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 I have studied anthropology. That doesn't change the fact that it's pretentious for you to put them on OUR political spectrum... It's pretentious for your to interpret their way of life through your lens.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Harro, Julia, are you going to answer?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

@hotfudgemoney Your question?

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 I suppose it was moar of a statement.

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 Guess not... lolguiz caev men weer kommuniztz

[hotfudgemoney]

@lilhavanaboys LOL... Somalia has nothing to offer anyone... How can you expect prosperity under any system? lolwut?

[hotfudgemoney]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 The same way every leftie explains manifestations of socialism and communism.

[CrazyFireMoose]

Oh oops, I said Socialism is a failure, Capitalism is a failure

[AtheismCentral]

Processing? Is it a long video comrade?

[pbotas]

processing...

[Hardworker1970]

Great work Venezuela.

[CrazyFireMoose]

Socialism is a failure and that is why we have created the Global Equality Movement, to promote socialism, freedom, peace and equality

[Coquipirate]

@CrazyFireMoose I think you tripped over yourself there friend

[CrazyFireMoose]

@Coquipirate No........

[CrazyFireMoose]

@Coquipirate Sorry, I meant Capitalism was the failure! LOL

[World0fWowcraft]

@CrazyFireMoose

''Capitalism is a failure and that is why we have created the Global Equality Movement, to promote socialism, freedom, peace and equality''

Fixed

[Coquipirate]

processing...