Give Me an Answer - #0610 - Ohio State University - Part A

[77mrniceguy]

this man, is an idiot and getting shown up by a college student

[mamainmancj]

this guy owns god would be pleased of him!!!! i am

[WillyumV3]

Ok so basically he's there just for the sake of fighting and being an asshole. If he really wants people to believe why not try to start talking to some of those "friends" that don't believe in God. You say it's ok for them to not believe then he goes off on a self-righteous crusade around America to pester college students about why THEY should believe. Fucking ignorant Christian is all he is.

[AriFeannor]

this guy needs to be killed in the drive to save people from his delusion.

[TruthTeller878]

REASON & EMOTION;

Harry Potter movies are being used to hunt down your souls for the evil religion of Satan (the ILLUMINATI). Many of you really do not know much about the spirit world. It makes you easy targets for the evil ones.

Private Investigator Sinne

U.S.A. Washington

[dec0y8]

Im sorry Cliffe, I just dont understand where you are going with this debate. Why does there have to be a higher power to make sense that murder is wrong? I have seen you use the Nuremburg example several times, and each time it still doesnt make sense. Murder is wrong, I dont need a God to tell me that. Is this your basis for proving there is a God?

[Autry29]

@dec0y8 but what if the majority believes that murder is right? Is it not your own bias(if there is no GOd that is) that informs you it is wrong. If that is the case then you are right, you need no God whatsoever. However, if indeed you believe in a iron clad absulute(its no other way) sense that "murder is wrong" then that places you in a dilema. How can you say with certainty that you are correct and someone who believes otherwise is wrong if indeed NOONE defines it?

[dec0y8]

@Autry29 touche' i will have to get back to you

[dec0y8]

@Autry29 ?

[dec0y8]

@Autry29 This comment makes my head explode. I cant figure out how to answer it

[jmanexpress]

@dec0y8 Sure you are free to believe murder is wrong, but if there is no God that position you hold is nothing more than your own personal bias/opinion, why? Because if there is no God morality is relative/subjective therefore murder is not absolutely wrong nor is the abuse of an innocent child, its all just point of view. Moral relativism flows naturally from atheism.

[dec0y8]

@jmanexpress Autry29 put it a lil bit better. His comment is almost paradox like. I guess I have to accept that the view points on murder, right or wrong are just opinions and that is all. I dont understand why humanity itself as a majority cant define that murder is wrong, and that a God has to do it.

[jmanexpress]

@dec0y8 That would mean good is defined by the majority, what if the majority decided that handicap people should be eradicated because they are a drain on resources and make no contribution to humanity, does that make it good? Of course not, you conscience, the innate ability to distinguish between good and evil would compel you go against the majority because that is evil regardless of what the majority thinks. Your conscience informs you of moral absolutes, defined by a moral lawgiver.

[dec0y8]

@jmanexpress Why does my conscience' morals have to be defined by a law giver? Why cant conscience' be moral on their own?

[OmoItsekiri]

@dec0y8 Hi. This is the point. Where did you learn 'murder is wrong from'?. I learnt it from family and the bible. history tells it was ok in many countries to kill someone for 'dishonouring' you or whatever. I see it as murder but they didn't. The thing with there being no God is that everyone is right and wrong. The Nazis were a large group of people, does that validate? As there is no higher power is it fair for you to say they were wrong? 1's as right as the other with no 'higher power'.

[FranceIsBacon]

@dec0y8 Humans & other social animals evolved morals as a means of group survival. Individuals who help their group are not banished and thus reproduce.

The Nazis only prove that morals are relative. Their group murdered millions & no individuals were banished for it. Why wasn't God giving absolute morals then? Even the current Pope was a Nazi.

Fortunately some of us have empathy for all humans and so can relate to the pain of others. Do to others as you would if you walked in their shoes.

[lookatmepleasesir]

@FranceIsBacon don't morals also extend to other groups? humans have had to fight, kill and plunder other groups to survive.

[lookatmepleasesir]

@FranceIsBacon individuals were certainly brought to justice for it. Did the nazis think that shooting and gasing people would make them happy and healthy? if not, they knew what they were doing was wrong.

[lookatmepleasesir]

@OmoItsekiri murder means deliberatley killing somebody, with premeditation. Surely people who kill others for dishnouring them realise they have deliberately killed them and premeditated it. Nazis would have told you that its irrelevant whether its right or wrong to exterminate the jews and other groups, only that it advanced the german people and the nazi cause. Their motivation was amoral.

[OmoItsekiri]

@lookatmepleasesir Hello :) That is true, their motives were amoral but who are you or I to say? Who is any one to say what is right and wrong and expect others to follow? In one community certain things are accepted even encouraged in others you could be jailed or killed. Which group has the authority to say to the other 'you are wrong'? Are we not all equal? That is the point, we are. So who says?

[Bernardatious]

@OmoItsekiri Our equality has nothing to do with our right to impose moral law on others. We are all equal in the sight of God, which means we will all (ultimately) be judged fairly. But just because we're all equal, that does not mean we don't have the right to tell someone they are wrong.

[OmoItsekiri]

@Bernardatious Hello. I can see your point, but scientifically speaking when things or forces are equal they can cancel each other out or add to the power of the other. I can say you are wrong, it doesn't make me right. As we are equal my perspective on 'right and wrong' is as valid as yours. Without a higher power, I cannot with certainity say to another person you are wrong, I recite their actions, I can call them immoral but what right do I have? Only God has it, because he is the author.

[BailiffQuimby]

@Bernardatious "We are all equal in the sight of God"

Not true. In the bible, God makes it clear that he does not see people who worship other gods or people who worship no gods as "equal" to his own followers.

"which means we will all (ultimately) be judged fairly"

How is it "fairly" if his judgement is based on his own subjective narcissistic laws?

[Bernardatious]

@BailiffQuimby from 13:20 onwards in his #1710 video, Cliffe talks a bit about slavery and New vs Old Testament

[BailiffQuimby]

@Bernardatious I'm not video-hopping, sorry. If he has any good points to make, summarize them here please?

[BailiffQuimby]

God doesn't believe in moral absolutes either. Thou shalt not kill, except for the plethora of times God personally kills and times when he commands his people to kill in his name....

[lookatmepleasesir]

@BailiffQuimby I haven't seen Cliffe address the Old Testament much. When he did, he talked about how the rules laid out in leveticus and deutronomy were for a theocracy, but that a theocracy was only releveant for that time and place and not neccessarily all, not the current time. But that doesn't justify those laws. However it does seem that the commandment is talking about murder rather then all instances of killing.

[BailiffQuimby]

@lookatmepleasesir "it does seem that the commandment is talking about murder rather then all instances of killing. "

Perhaps. But most people could count pillaging and ransacking a city for the purpose of genocide, and collecting sex slaves to fall under the category of murder (and then some). Really, the commandment only applied to Jews killing other Jews, and only when God didn't say they deserved it.

[Bernardatious]

@BailiffQuimby "Do not murder" was a moral law, not a civil law. Moral laws hold for everyone, but civil laws only hold for people under that government.

[BailiffQuimby]

@Bernardatious That's an old excuse and one completely unsupported by the bible itself. Nowhere does god specify which laws are for everyone and which are just for "people under that government." Moreover, civil law or not, god endorsing slavery is still deplorable, and the fact that he didn't specifically BAN slavery (and rape and assault) in his "moral law" section is also deplorable.

[Bernardatious]

@BailiffQuimby I haven't studied that part of the Bible very much, but Cliffe Knechtle said that its a civil law and I tend to trust him from what else he's been saying.

[bosslocks777]

love it Cliffe keep up the work