Religion interferes with cultural progress - The Atheist Experience #631

[rossmat707]

Hitler scapegoating Jews as the source of all of Germany's woes was acheived through non religious propaganda. Although history shows religion to be one of the most powerful tools by which to manipulate a group of people, Charismatic leaders can influence in many ways without having to resort to religious dogma.

[jollyandwaylo]

@rossmat707 Of course Hitler used the religious hatred of Jews, why do you think that anti-Jewish propaganda worked? Martin Luther and his followers had been blaming Jews for killing Jesus for hundreds of years.

[Thelondonbadger]

@rossmat707 Please actually gooogle his speechs an see the heavy christian content and quotes from the bible in order to whip up hatred for the jews.Who had moved into the country after ww1 to buy up small bussiness, loans then repo en masse when they hit the depression creating a feeling of distrust before hitler started talking.Germanys depression was 100 times worse then usa's.All the industrial factorys and large areas of land in germany were bought by jewish americans who evaded tax also.

[otaku3d]

My girlfriend was also soft-theist, then she suddenly fall in love with Jesus, her mind changed dramatically and she urged me to accept Jesus ... or leave. Then i saw the REAL face of religion. Romancing with Jesus is an abomination to me.

[dkthg]

@otaku3d Jesus is SEXY! Have you seen his ABS?

[Froggydog1000]

I went fron Ttheist to antitheist.

[Priesty77]

"Religion interferes with cultural progress"? This is what defines and is central to many cultures. So how can you have cultural progress when you abandon the corner stone of your ethnicity and society?

[MrZardoz777]

Since Islam, per se, advocates the torture and murder of nonmuslims, it's always fair to criticize the religion itself as being totalitarian. The prevailing culture will influence the way people act on the tenets of Islam, but the fact that people often ignore them doesn't make them any less evil.

Praising people for ignoring aspects of their own religion doesn't show respect for the religion, but only highlights the religion's irrelevance.

[TheDano1947]

They still kill infidels, they just call it waring against an enemy now.

[NormanAngle]

Close to racist? It's nowhere near.

Americans seem to have a real problem realising what racism is.

[halflifefan84]

@NormanAngle Yeah, I have a black friend who gets pissed when someone even says the word black.

[greco0994]

@NormanAngle pretty sure Americans know alot about racism considering our history to say somthing like that is just illiterate.

[NormanAngle]

Religion is merely a form of culture.

[davian3]

Hey Matt:

How about doing something with the lighting on your set. So dark it is.

Love and Light.

David.

[FluffyFeralMarmot]

You could also say that religion moderates the effects of cultural drift, which can be both good and bad. Societies that change radically overnight are characterized by lots of death and destruction -- conservative dogma can lessen the rate of change to allow less severe transitions.

[Shavarnarak]

It doesn't take a religion to make these fictional 'good people' (which don't exist) do bad things.

If there wasn't a single religion around, ideology would do that just as well, and if there wasn't any of those around, then desire for power, sex, money and whatever the crap the local apes desire would make them do evil things too, and if it wasn't that either, it'd just be because they just don't LIKE someone, and thus they thin it's okay to treat them evilly.

There are no good people.

[Shavarnarak]

Stating that wifebeating being a fact of the middle-eastern culture is not racist. If only it WHERE racist that'd be great. Sadly it's a sad fucking fact. Even in fairly modern places like Abu Dhabi.

Does that mean that every single arab/muslim/mid-eastern man beast their wife(s), oh not necessarily. It just means the police doesn't give a crap if one of them DOES beat their wife, even if he beats her into the hospital.

That IS the culture of the mid-east, even if you close your eyes to it.

[TurboDally]

Religions have one thing in common (generally speaking): belief in the supernatural

The supernatural has little to no credibility in reality, people have posed supernatural answers to questions they couldn't answer instead of being honest and admitting the answer is not known to them. No, atheists aren't necessarily better. However skeptical inquiry does tend to turn people atheistic and valuing their life more.

[nowayout001]

Um, religion was and is actually part of cultural evolution, even though some organised religions were (and may still be) a hindrance, things are not as simple. There are 2 sides of a coin. And are you sure that when everyone become Atheists, things will be better? Is that not the same for other religions? If everyone has the same belief system, with the diversity reduced, is this necessarily a good thing? Villains that desired World Domination, and Communist rule really should teach us a lot.

[vesmir92505]

Religion is an expression of individual and unit identity. At its core, it is a coping mechanism and adaptive trait that is intertwined with and rooted in our survival instinct. Humanity's drive to understand its environment and assign answers to nature's randomness, then further attempt to control that randomness (rain dances; sacrifices; ritual; prayer) is the origin of all religion.

[86Corvus]

@vesmir92505 i would rather say that its a parasite that feeds on that adaptive mechanism not the mechanism itself. it is a security blanket - but its a fake one at that. its pretty much lying to yourself to fear less, which in reality leads to deprivation of the instinct to understand environment as accepting fake answer stops the search for the answer.

[Schneboll]

Good arguments but please The Atheist Experience, leave out words like racist and racism.

Such an ugly word with a way to broad meaning to each individual. Especially when you are trying just to make a point (in this case it failed because the girl friend is pakistani) of some westen people's lack of understanding of cultures and people outside the west.

Call it for what it really is namely: Ignorance.

[86Corvus]

religion since the day it was made up inhibits anny progress. progress is deadly to religion. manny religions died that way and manny will

[wetdream09]

The guy sounds gay. lol he has a girlfriend, mkay!

[jlm2525]

In Egypt, in ancient times. most people were iliterate and needed something to believe in even if it was an adult Santa Clause. That religion was not that oppressive and people view many things as natural and normal that should be viewed as such but that today in America we don't. The ancient Egyptians developed a lot of math, science and an impressive social engineering. Today we don't have any excuse to adopt a religion due to our access to information and education but back then and there..

[jlm2525]

Though I am an agnostic, I am not completely convinced that religion always interferes with cultural progress. I'm reading books on the ancient egyptian civilization, and I tend to believe that back then those people achieved something remarkable: That civilization lasted for over 3000 years most of the time in peace. Among the commoners, there was a lot of equality between men and women, and their religion reflected that.

[adolthitler]

@jlm2525 But did the religion create the tolerance? or was it tolerant because the people were tolerant? And the civilization died out, did religion stifle inovation that could have saved the culture?

Maybe the religion locked in the culture and learning so that it died out due to lack of progress. You have not shown religion kept egypt rocking for 3000 years. You just showed it was there.

[jlm2525]

@adolthitler A religion does determine a culture's outlook on life. For instance, today, most Egyptian women are Muslim and wear a Hijab, and are not as tolerant as their ancient counterparts. Also, I have a personal hypothesis that conveys an explanation for a nation's wealth and success that is directly related to its geographical location.

[in3x]

@jlm2525 Go on then, explain how geographical location makes a nation wealthy and successful.

[jlm2525]

@in3x The following are a few examples that can partially explain my hypothesis. Because of their position in the Mediterranean, the Nile River and the Fertile Crescent, Ancient Egyptians and Greeks created advanced civilizations that included complex architecture, art, literature and at least in the case of Egypt incredible social engineering (3000 years of being mostly at peace) with gender and labor equality.

[jlm2525]

@in3x Central Africa or Siberia for instance did not produce those levels of intricate results. Later during the Middle Ages, Western Europe was cornered against the Atlantic Ocean and remained uneducated and largely ignorant while the Islamic nations were more advanced in such fields as medicine, sanitation and education.

[jlm2525]

@in3x During the renaissance and later on, Western Europe started to colonize the Americas, Africa and later some Asian populations and therefore initiated a thriving era for themselves while the Middle Eastern cultures remained more or less cornered in their part of the world consequently adopting a more religious attitude that has continued to this day but that I believe is slowing dissipating away thanks to powerful information technologies that people are adopting everywhere. 

[in3x]

@jlm2525 "During the renaissance and later on, Western Europe started to colonize the Americas, Africa and later some Asian populations" How did the europeans go from poor to being able to colonize everywhere? How exactly does this prove that geographically location actually made some countries more economic success? Surely the country I am from (UK) that became the most powerful country in the world for more than a century had to right to have done so?

[jlm2525]

@in3x Japan, from its island position, which afforded it some isolation from invaders formed a more advanced culture than other people in the Far East. I hoped I explained my position.

[in3x]

@jlm2525 How does being on an island make more advanced cultures? there are plenty of island in the world that did not reach japan's level. How was every continent in the world invaded by Europe? Especially since Europen had fewer people, land and far less resources than these countries would have had. Surely science is more important than location.

[jlm2525]

@in3x You are correct when you say that science is more important than location. However, location determines how advanced a country becomes. Japanese people came originally from China bringing with them their already advanced Asiatic continental culture, which from their later island vantage point allowed them to create a unique and more powerful country. UK people have had a very similar situation with Japan adding the benefit of the influence of the past Mediterranean civilizations.

[jlm2525]

@in3x When minds open, science and technology thrive and advancement happens. The ancient Mediterranean civilizations especially later Rome had the unique advantage of multi-continental cultural exposure among them the Fertile Crescent societies.

[jlm2525]

@in3x . Furthermore, the need for massive transportation using ships in the form of military and commercial cargo stretches the mind even further also moving forward that particular culture. That’s what happened when Rome made Egypt a province, and when Western Europe overtook the Americas, Africa and parts of Asia.

[in3x]

@jlm2525 Ok, but you still haven't said why exactly you can say that it is a geographical location that makes a country prosper. Besides, I don't really buy your island idea, how is it that one moment being in contact with lots of cultures is good (romans) and then not being in contact with any cultures is good (japan).

[jlm2525]

@in3x As I mentioned in my previous post, Japan started out with an already advanced Chinese culture. Their geographical location in the world (eastern part of Asia in a big island) warranted them a unique opportunity to create an even more sophisticated society. If you look at the other islands in Asia, none of them had both the advanced cultural start up and the relative geographical isolation coupled with a climate that encouraged it to build complex and detailed structures.

[jlm2525]

@in3x Additionally, up until recently, Japan had almost no threats from the north, east, west, and just a bit from the southwest.

In the case of Rome, that society did not begin with an already rich and intricate cultural knowledge (unlike Japan.)

[jlm2525]

@in3x The primitive Romans had to acquire their skills and understanding of the world from other civilizations near by such as Greece. And Greece gained their knowledge from the Fertile Crescent, which was located close to the Hellenes. I can’t find one single nation that prospered without originally incorporating the wisdom and learning from several other different nearby complex cultures.

[in3x]

@jlm2525 Of course, all cultures borrowed from earlier ones. What I'm not hearing is why exactly your geographical location makes you more prosperous. How did the Chinese culture get advanced before Japan? What about Greece, is it in an ideal location? What about the cultures before greece? Does what you say about japan mean you think that climate has a part to play in cultures developing?

[jlm2525]

@in3x In the beginning of history, societies that were located near large navigable rivers prospered much more than the ones that were not. Later ancient civilizations like Greece were positioned near the Fertile Crescent but unlike Libya, had an ideal climate/location that brought it valuable resources such as wood, olive oil and great fishing.

[jlm2525]

@in3x Their goods and crossroads with nearby cultures encouraged the Hellenes to build a navy to create commercial ventures around the Mediterranean. Later, after coming out triumphant from the war with Carthage, with the newly acquired strength the Romans fashioned their empire.

[thelivingfire]

matt hit this one right out of the park!

[ishtar0171]

I think "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is actually Malifus Malificarum, The Hammer of Witches. A book used during the Inquisition to send many to their deaths, but I'm not sure it's in the Bible.

[Redbeardian]

@ishtar0171 It's Exodus 22:18

[ohdoshutit]

religion IS culture that doesn't change. simple as.

[Houshalter]

Relegion could theoretically be used for evil things, but atheists resort to bizzare examples to try to prove this. Either way it would only matter if it was really made up, which it isn't and there is little evidence it is. Either way, if relegion "slows cultural progress" then it wouldn't hurt to just throw it away and go commit genocide because theres no God to live up to.

[sanechipmunks]

@Houshalter The bible itself is full of examples of religion being used for evil. Genocide being very common, as it happens.

[Houshalter]

@sanechipmunks, as I said, it only matters if there truly is no God. If there isn't then those stories are, of course, made up and no genocide was actually commited.If he is real then a super benevolent and superintelligent being did it so it obviously was the right thing to do anyways, again it doesn't matter.My point is that in the end the bible teaches pacifism and forgiveness meaning that even if it isn't real, those who sin are not following their religion anyways even if they say they are.

[sanechipmunks]

@Houshalter One might not lead to another - there could be no god, and the genocides were committed anyway. God exists - does not automatically mean that he is benevolent. In the old testament god is an absolute bastard, leading 'his' chosen tribe to war and slaughter, visiting plagues on their enemies etc.

In the new testament it is revealed that because some of gods earliest creations - the completely naive Adam and Eve were tricked by THE FATHER OF LIES, everyone deserves eternal torment.

[sanechipmunks]

@Houshalter But god in his 'kindness' decides to impregnate a jewish woman out of wedlock - spawning a 'man without sin'... in order to create a worthy sacrifice to himself, so that he can lift the eternal torment sentence (for some) without losing face? Really, who knows why this scheme was deviced.... it simply makes no sense whatsoever, but it certainly cannot be deemed 'good'.

[Houshalter]

@sanechipmunks, again, if God is real, all this shows is how little we have learned about him and understand the greater universe. The point of Jesus was he had the power to destroy his crucifiers, but he didn't, and when it was all over he showed them forgiveness. Jesus showed us that we can be forgiven for our sins, that we should have mercy on our enemies show them kindness, etc.

[Vire70]

@Houshalter

Ah beautiful circular logic. God will forgive you for your sins; the ones which he declared you have committed, if only you will follow him.

Rather like having a child, telling that child that he must obey you because his very breathe is an offense to you, and if he doesn't then he will die. Honestly... sometimes I can't decide which is more laughable; Islam the religion of 'peace' or Christianity the religion of utter masochism.

[sanechipmunks]

@Houshalter Jesus himself allegedly crafted a scourge whip to better drive people from the temple who he didn't like... some pacifist.

[romney27]

funny how matt assumes that religion stifles culture, when the Hindus gave math and science the numbers. maybe he should go back to the roman numerals...lol what a couple of retards these guys are.

[bcgonynor]

You're equating people's race with their religion. They didn't create our numerals because they were Hindu, they did it to make calculations. Nor did Islam give us algebra, the Arabs did. Would you say calculus was a Christian invention because Newton was a Christian? Were the Roman numerals invented by Roman priests? Religion is a part of culture, but its not the whole thing. We all have to make a living, and science can help with that.

[JUANMO94]

@romney27 1)Do not insult people 2)Christianity precisely has stifled culture 3) We atheist base our "beliefs"  (they cannot be called beliefs really) in facts, evidence, study and research, so we are less retard than the creationists.

[romney27]

@JUANMO94 for some one who doesn't really know what he believes, you didn't really make the grade on explaining the "how" of stifling.

facts: religion and beliefs in gods exist. evidence: take a look around, it's evolved to be inherent to the human condition. study and research: is covered in the cognitive sciences. being less than isn't much to hang your hat on.... but neither is bald being a hair color?

why not believe your own concept?

[JUANMO94]

@romney27 1) the fact that religion is inherent to the human condition doesn't mean is true 2) Anything you said has to do with the fact that Christianity has slowed down scientific progression 3) bcgonynor is completely right 4) I don't understand what you mean with the bald thing

[romney27]

@JUANMO94 "1) the fact that religion is inherent to the human condition doesn't mean is true " science says you have to address the observation. Funny how something can evolve to be inherent, but you still want to apply your own opinion about how "you" feel about it, as a substitution. That's defiantly not scientific.... and no different than a religious person having the free will to believe how ever they want. You do know how to exercise free will?

[JUANMO94]

@romney27 you are not making any point about the original claim that "religion stifles culture". "1) the fact that religion is inherent to the human condition doesn't mean is true " I fail to see how my statement doesn't make sense, because it is true. Imagine that everybody in the planet believed in magic fairies, that wouldn't make it real.

[sanechipmunks]

@romney27 The premise is obviously false, religion is not inherent.

[romney27]

religion"IS" part of culture.....what a stupid example.

humans have also evolved religions get over it atheist.

i.e. get a life!

[JUANMO94]

@romney27 we already have a life, and we don't waste it praising and worshiping some weird wizard in the sky, we actually have fun in life, so I would recommend you to be more respectful with atheist and to get a life

[Omegafrost69]

Oh my god, I laughed so fucking hard at the title of this video! You guys are so into your own bs that you didn't understand that majority of all culture is created by religion. This video is a croc of shit just like the assholes representatives of the christian religion that make all christians look bad. Go fuck your self you sorry moron.

[Experiment47]

@Omegafrost69 Fail dumb ass, religion doesn't create culture, culture changes over time, in spite of religion. If christianity had its way we'd still be in the dark ages.

[Omegafrost69]

HEHEHEHHAHAHAHAHA! Christians? Okay I was talking about all religion in general, but okay we can go this way if you want to. I'm going to start with religion in general than I'll go to christinity. Asia, buddism is the majority religion over there. Look at the temples, monks, the way of their thinking, way they eat, their statues, tourism. (There's alot especially in china). They almost revolve around that religion.

[Omegafrost69]

Okay here's another special one, Catholic religion. If your anywhere near as informed as you claim then you'll know that the catholic religion is made up of pegan and early christian beliefs. So without the romans conquering majority of the known world at the time that was led by the catholic church we wouldn't be as far into technology as we are today. Reason? Defeating the saxons and early germanic tribes and other underdevoped countries and people forced them to learn the catholic ways.

[Omegafrost69]

I mean roman ways (in others words catholic religion also). Without religion motivating the roman war machine we wouldn't be as modernized as we are today. Okay here's the one you took a pot at christianity I don't know any other religion besides catholic religon and christainity that sponsers homeless shelters, foster homes, salvation army, aid in any distaster (haiti), homes for people that have mental retardation, the shriners (free childrens hospital that helps kids with cancer and other

[Omegafrost69]

terminal desieses, old folks homes, some hospitals, some gyms, programs that help children that is free that whatches children when they get off school because the parents can't watch them, giving food and clothing to the needy (tyler resource center, city church, corner stone outreach.) shelters that protect woman and children from abuse (battered womans shelter). etc, there is way too much christianity that involves helping people and culture that I can mention. What does your belief do for

[Omegafrost69]

our community? Well jesus loves you and will be waiting for you with open arms to turn you life around because I don't so go fuck yourself.

[jymbo1969]

@Omegafrost69 weak.... very, very weak. How little you must know about your own beliefs.

[Omegafrost69]

Wow, you sound even more stupid than the other dumb fucks. I didn't even think that was possible. But you took the cake fucktard.

[ClumsyRoot]

It would be more accurate to say that religion is a part of every culture.

[Omegafrost69]

I agree

[happyhappy85]

lol wut? Culture is what happens when we try and pull away from dogmatic religion and try to live lives without the moronic rules of desert scribblings

[gunblade64]

LOL!

"Oke cool"

[KazuyaKane]

he didnt answer the question. He only used a hypothetical situation about letters....not life or organisms....fail

[NotTooObvious]

xactly!

[Progressification]

I live in New York, on what channel/day would this show be aired?

[m3141592]

I don't know how american cable works, but since this is on the equivalent of the community channel, I don't know that it would be available in other states.

The good news is that all the episodes are on their website. The link is in the panel to the right of the video area.

[Progressification]

Well they're located in Texas, and this caller is from California, so I was under the suspicion that I might be able to view it.

[decamatus]

it's only available in Texas except the uStream

[creepyoldman2]

the show is on sunday in texas on Ustream. just do the time difference and you can watch it live.

[3dfreak]

is gonna sound like an oxymoron, but THANKS GOD YOU GUYS EXIST!

HEHE ok what I mean is... Im thankful that we "Americans" (I mean all America.. North Central & South) and a bunch of European countries, have pple like you to open our eyes.

Poor middle east pple who doesn't have an atheist experience channel, other wise they'd open their eyes too.

[xxRockst4r]

@3dfreak not really, if the middle east had atheist shows on tv they would be shot

[3dfreak]

true.... hey xxRockst4r, pardon my ignorance, in case muslims wanted to get out (out the country and out of the religion) I mean, if they wanted out, could it be done?

I mean, sure they have internet, to find out more about the world and religion and sure there could be a couple of atheist in Iraq or Iran (obviously hidden), why wouldn't they just leave their sh*t hole country??

[xxRockst4r]

@3dfreak well ask a muslim not me?

[emperorzong]

yay!

[mussonman]

5 stars...

[boorens18]

So to sum up this video....Religions prevent cultures from being domesticated and more civilized. They get stuck in the age the religion was formed in.

[Richy15251]

@boorens18 exactly

[SinnFein4ever]

Actually the phrase "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" was ordered put into the bible by King James of England.

He had a whole slew of things taken out, put in, and re-writen when he ordered that his new version of the bible become the new official bible of the Church of England (Hence the name "King James Bible").

Catholics don't use that version.

They are allowed to use several versions, & that phrase isn't found in any of them.

[m3141592]

"Actually the phrase "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" was ordered put into the bible by King James of England."

Are you sure? I thought that was a reasonable translation of the hebrew phrase "M'khashephah lo tichayyah".

"They are allowed to use several versions, & that phrase isn't found in any of them. "

Really? I'd like to read those versions. Do you know their names?

[SinnFein4ever]

Yes.

The version which my parents used, was called the "Family Rosary Commemorative Edition of the Catholic Bible", and it was published by "The Catholic Press, Inc.".

[m3141592]

Isn't that a Douay-Rheims interpretation?If it is, I'd expect it to say;

"Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live". (exodus 22 18)

So the difference seems to be the gender of the sorcerer in that translation.

Perhaps you could go get the bible you mentioned and type out ex. 22.18 so we can compare.

[SinnFein4ever]

It was left to me by my father.

My paternal grandparents left it to him.

It is a fourth edition.

I'm not sure whether or not it is a Douay-Rheims version; It doesn't seem to say.

But I think that I've heard my parents say that it is.

I'll look it up tomorrow, and get back to you.

Right now , I'm very tired, and I have to go to sleep.

Goodnight, m3141592

[BipedalHumanoid]

Who let the shinners in?

[simsi1616]

matt speaks the truth

[Sconz32]

Yeah, someone needs to upload that entire song.

[antivirusdesign]

Evolution has nothing to do with the existence of God. If your a atheist and believe in evolution, it will fit your world view, and vice versa. The problem is religious fundamentalism and that they haven't been introduced to evolution in a glorifying way and the stigma has been set that evolution = atheism, and also of course because they take the bible literally. It's actually quite annoying to me though, evolution in my view is a beautiful explanation and fits my world view perfectly.

[toomanykittens]

dude, im so much more atheist then you... like your atheism is like what 2nd grade ?

[itsallenwow]

is the audio off a little bit?

[LimelightsFaded]

5:20 is PERFECT and exactly why I despise organized religion

[mrplow8]

What's the name of that song in the intro?

[mgproductions2007]

I AGREE WHAT IS THAT SONG?

[Prophiscient]

"Listen to Reason" - Bryan Steeksma.

MySpace: bryansteeksma. (This song isn't there though.)

Also check out the TheAheistExperience channel here on YouTube for more clips from this show.

[region1111]

All religion is a cultural phenomenon. It always makes me laugh when people think religion and culture are two separate entities.

That kind of thinking comes from people who believe that religion has been given to us by god, and everything else is made by people and is therefore culture.

Religion is a subset of culture. People need to read more Daniel Dennett.

[XenMonkey13]

Agreed.

Another great viewpoint on this is Joseph Campbell, my favorite being "The Power of Myth".

But Daniel Dennett's "Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon " is also a brilliant and well thought out piece of work.

If only people read more books. *sigh*

:-)

[1RadicalOne]

They do read; it's just they refuse to read any but one...

[MasterMorgrath]

That passage he quoted was intentionally changed by king james because of his bias against witches.

[aquatix]

With any religion, you can justify just about any racism/discrimination or wicked act.

[averagehomosapien]

NO. Sorry. That statement is just plain false. Try justifying wife-beating with Buddhism or Jainism. I can't be done. That doesn't mean that they're any more true than, say, Christianity or Islam (I'm an atheist myself) It's just that some religious are more harmful and pernicious than others.

[aquatix]

I'm not versed in Jainism, so I can not speak on behalf of that. Buddhism is not a religion, though. And all religions have potential to be just as harmful as the next. The difference between Christianity and Islam is that Islam takes their book literal. Christians take theirs metaphorical.

[CHVNX]

Buddhism is a religion. It deals with the afterlife and the soul, and some branches clearly believe in God or Gods.

Buddhism can be dangerous. Look at the Eastern nations and their history of brutal, relentless war. Korea? Japan? China? Hello? Totally violent cultures that are full of war, and it's even more than many so-called Christian nations.

[averagehomosapien]

Alright. I know we probably agree on most things, but you really have to stop making such bold statements. A few don't consider Buddhism a religion, but the vast majority of people do. Since words are typically defined by popular usage, I think it's fair to say that Buddhism is a religion, despite what a minority of people think. For one, Buddhism has many supernatural elements, so it's a religion in my book.

[47f0]

aqatix - don't mistake the fundamentalist shitholes of the world for all of Islam.  I have known my share of wine-drinking, pork-eating Muslims. I have also known some very apocalyptic, adventist, literalist Christians. I am neither willing to condemn or praise either on the basis of fundamentalism - both have moderates and fanatics.

[pikemand1410]

@47f0 Why did they decide to join a club if they don't want to adhere to the rule book?

[aquatix]

I am not mistaken by all of Islam. I'm sorry if you were implied that. However, it is easier to speak on broad terms as opposed to listing off names and individual behaviors. Both do have moderates and fanatics. To be fair, though, would you not agree that muslims follow their holy book closer than do most Christians? If you disagree, please explain. Thanks for the great topic starter ;)

[tieInterceptor]

Good for them that they take their religion with a pinch of salt, but at the end of the day, those pork eating Muslims wont be able to win an argument with the fundamentalists

because the fundamentalist will call the pork eating Muslims infidels and that will be the end of the argument

religion is not moderate, only people are

Therefore there isn't a moderate Islam or Christianity, just Christians and Muslims that can't be bothered to follow their own religion

so religions still are a danger

[Tcrowaf]

You can with any of the Abrahamic religions for sure.

[CHVNX]

I can do both without religion, easily.

[dunndudebemelol]

Men find what they want then look for evidence and religion simply infers that

[Katalyzt]

Indeed ★★★★★