Twenty-five Notre Dame faculty members–led by the university’s top ethics expert, and including some of the school’s most eminent scholars–have signed a statement declaring that President Barack Obama’s latest version of his administration’s mandate that all health insurance plans in the United States must cover sterilizations and all FDA-approved contraceptives, including those that cause abortions, is “a grave violation of religious freedom and cannot stand.”
Do your home work before you speak. Catholic Clergy only has had 1.7% of its clergy accused of misconduct with children while Protestants has 10% of their clergy accused of misconduct with children. It's had either way but before ypu speak do your homework.
Catholic clergy only has 1.7% of its clergy ever accused of misconduct hmmm while PROTESTANT Clergy has around 10% of its clergy that has been accused of misconduct. Its horribly wrong either way but do your home work before you start screaming you all need to work on yourselves as well.
He talks about "participant in the act" and "eternal salvation".
How do you think it will affect your eternal salvation, Bishop Finn, that you concealed a known pedophile and left him around children for a year? You were a participant in the act, and a participant in the bishops that concealed and covered up child sex abuse in the church.
You are a typical bishop and a horrible person, and can preach from jail.
This is Bishop Finn, the "pedophile priest protector" from Kansas City. Please pressure the DA to throw Finn and his other conspirators in jail, after allowing Ratigan around children for a year after he was absolutely confirmed to be a pedophile.
who the hell does he think he is?????? BISHOP NORTHERN BRAIN YOU WENT TO WAL MART... 100 MADE IN CHINA = SUPPORTED ABORTION . GO SCRUB YOUR FLOOR AND .... WELL THE SCANDAL. WHO BOUGHT YOU?
tell the priest to shut up and leave the alter boys alone. if you had a proper sex life the abuse of children wouldn't have been so high. bloody faith-heads.
@fourbabies1 dont put all priests in this category .A few bad apples does not spoil a bunch and yes if the sicko priests and preachers molested kids they would not be in celibacy . Celibacy is done with the help of God .
@fourbabies1 Not having sex is as unnatural as not drinking wine. Abstinence as a personal, life-long commitment of oneself to Christ's Church is unusual but not abnormal.
@fourbabies1 it is a problem that exists in all churches not just CAtholic . And it is a fraction of priests compared to the majority that are not . Preachers which you fail to mention (who do get married ) make up a huge fraction of the molestations . The devil sends his messengers with out that part of the message.
@onclave6 i am an athiest and talk of the devil cuts no ice. unfortunately, chid abuse exists in all corners of society, so we have to be vigilant against it and not assume that because some one is frightened of hell, they will not perpertrate such dispicaple acts.
@fourbabies1 you as an atheist need to be reminded not to be biased and just go after priests doing these action while there are preachers doing these same actions . You also have to be reminded that separation between church and state was meant for religion taking over government like Muslims do . You people tend to go after memorials for crosses when our kids go on class trips to pray at mosques and you do nothing .
faith-heads are the ones who have tried to link church and state. athiests are forever fighting battles to keep sky-daddy out of courts and goverment buildings, be that islam or chtistianity. as an athiest, i "go after" the ignorance of believing in the supernatural without reason whether that be voodoo or hinduism.
@fourbabies1 prayer in the class room does no harm it existed in the baby boom generation , now its not legal .When they prayed in class the Jahova witness or no believe walked out of room what harm did that do? Yet it was taken to the courts to decide . i think it should be brought top a vote among the people . The world would be a better place if that were the case liberal agenda would be screwed . As an atheist you go after the Christian and support the muslim . GOd is watching you
your talking out your backside. i go after ignorant, childish beliefs in a sky-daddy no matter what name it is given. indoctrinating children into superstitious beliefs can only be bad and devisive to nations as a whole as all people of faith believe that theirs is the one true religion and the others should not get equal treatment. just look at iran/afghanistan.
@fourbabies1 So are you mad at Bishop Finn because of sexual abuses which happened decades before he came to the diocese, or are you mad at him for his religious principles? I truly want to know why you are posting off-topic, ad hominem attacks against someone you believe to be misguided in his faith.
@fourbabies1 you support muslims by even arguing with me about muslims , your sticking up for their faith and attacking us you hate christians .Teaching children that there is no God does damage . Without that belief we have no morals . You lie to your children if you tell them that . Research the case for Christ and you will realize you were wrong all along .This country was founded on Christian morals not Islam or atheist teaching for that matter . ACLU attacks Christians not Muslim .
@onclave6 i never argued with you about muslims. jesus may never even have existed (if you can show that he did, go ahead). i would be lying to my children if i said there was a god as i have yet to see proof. btw, which god/s are you saying exists as there are thousands out there. as for researching the case for christ, i have and i found sweet F A. unlike your hatred of non-believers, i hate nobody but i have a strong dislike for superstition portrayed as truth with no evidence. thats lying!
@fourbabies1 Most Atheists confirmed he existed here in the human . Now the Pagan historians , confirm in their historical documents he was here in the human form . And of course Shroud of Turan is also proof . Your need to open your eyes if you have not seen existence of GOd . Now You were either misguided as a child or met up with the wrong influence . There are miracle cases all around Quadulupee , Lanciano ,Turan etc .Your Lying to yourself by claiming there is no GOd without looking .
@onclave6 i have looked for a god!!! i found none. i found what i was looking for in evolution via natural selection. a reason for being. by having a closed mind, you are lying to yourself. i am just in the process of reading 'The Greatest Show On Earth by Richard Dawkins, a book i believe holds more truth than all the superstitions, including yours, put together.
@fourbabies1 Perhaps you did not look hard enough . A hypocrite to boot . You call me close minded yet you wont read any books providing a case for his existence , or look up any of the cases provided in the past for his existence . Two books to read: Answering The New Atheism (by Scott Haun) and The Godless Delusion (by Patrick Madrid ) Books written to argue The God Delusion (by Richard Dawkins) Open your mind to that my little Dawkins Disciple
@onclave6 i've read books on "his existence", the most recent being 'the dawkins delusion' , i forget who by, a direct rebuttal to the god delusion by richard dawkins. a dissapointing read as it contained no evidence of a god. now, what have you read pertaining to why evolution is true and creation is false? if you haven't read anything then it is you with the closed mind.
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I'm tired of listening to these religious leaders on their pick and choose topics to persuade the flock on how to vote or think....what about giving to the poor? war crimes? loving the sinner? corporate greed?...I could go on....
The numbers of people killed through abortion completely eclipse the numbers of those killed through war crimes.
Besides, there's the danger from the intellectual crime of denying humanity to a certain group of people.
Which actions of Nazi Germany do you consider worse: that they invaded several nations in Europe, or that they worked to kill off a handful of groups of people?
There can never be a legitimate reason to kill a baby. Wars can sometimes be legitimate. The legitimacy of the death penalty is unclear, but it has not always and everywhere condemned as unjustified.
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What you just typed is a stunning example of pure bullshit. I'd like to know where you get your information. The Catholic Church makes no distinction between killing a condemned man and killing a fetus. So I would really like to know how you come to that conclusion. My guess is that it makes you feel better about yourself. The truth is, any real Christian could not have voted period in the election.
I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to attack my character. I hope you will dispassionately re-read my comment and notice I did not say anything about voting, as I was addressing your comparing of the evil of abortion with the death penalty. As you no doubt know, abortion is intrinsically evil. It can never be legitimate. As for the death penalty, more in a moment...
... The Catechism states: "The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor."(CCC 2267)
The Church has not condemned capital punishment as intrinsically wrong, though it also says "cases of absolute necessity...are very rare, if not practically non-existent" .
Somebody said: ABORTION WILL ALWAYS BE LEGAL IN AMERICA. SO GET OVER IT. so damn emotional all you people. if you love life so much why arent you outside death row with your signs to stop executions. why dont you go over to iraq and hold up signs to the americans saying not to kill. why dont you go make youtube videos about little kids dying of aids in africa or the genocides in countless other places. love life?i think you are all delusional.get a life. how bout that
I believe you have confused an important point here. Roman Catholics, in the Christian world, place "innocence" and "hope" on a much higher level then others. We maintain that deciding whether a fetus has the right to survive based on its parents personal decisions is an attack against innocence and even hope itself. We are not questioning circumstances, we are protecting the unborn and yet living child.
If you want to have an abortion, then you go ahead and allow an abortionist to dismember your unborn child with an interuterine vacuum cleaner ( which is, technically, the device used), but bear in mind it is the mentality behind abortion, calling it "a choice", that others find fault with.
Getting aids is often a choice. Believe it or not, so is poverty. Hell, having sex is a choice. Going to work is a choice.
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hahahah The HOly Homo catholic Church has murdered tortured, and raped and pilliaged more people than Hitler and Stalin combined and these perverted criminals have the criminal temerity to say they advocate LIFE after 2000 years of blood and gore?!?!?!?!?!?!....the SHAME...THE SHAME...THE SHAME!!!!
First, you attacked Bishop Finn, and it was to that rash statement that I responded. Bishop Finn is not responsible for the past sins of others. Don't take your hatred for the Church out on a man you clearly do not know, and with statements you can't back up.
Secondly, the Church is here for sinners, to lead them to Christ. Whatever sinful acts have been committed in the past, they were committed by weak men, not by Christ's Church.
...Thirdly, your statement that the Church has "murdered tortured, and raped and pilliaged(sic) more people than Hitler and Stalin combined" is incredible beyond belief and needs to be retracted. Show me where the Church ever advocated or caused through its teachings the death of tens of millions of people, as Stalin and Hitler did. You can't. Technically, when one invokes Hitler against his/her opponents, one loses the argument automatically.
...Fourthly, even if your incredible attack on the Church were true, how does that absolve present day men from the slaughter of 48+ million babies in the womb? (and that is just in the U.S.) We stand or fall on our own.
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You obviously were asleep during world history class when they covered The Great Crusades and when they covered the Catholic Church's complicity with Hitler until he turned on them too.
The Church was not complicit in Hitler's evil. Pope Pius XII did much to combat his evil. Jews of the time considered the pope a friend, and TIME magazine featured him positively on their cover.
Furthermore, whatever evil that was committed during the crusades, the Church did not endorse, defend, or promote it. To paraphrase "Henry V": No one, no matter how spotless his cause, can carry it out with all un-spotted soldiers. Those who did evil were themselves responsible for it.
"First they came" is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (18921984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
Cardinal Faulhaber, who helped negotiate the concordat with Hitler (and who ordained the present pope), assessed its international impact in a 1937 sermon:
"At a time when the heads of the major nations in the world faced the new Germany with cool reserve and considerable suspicion, the Catholic Church, the greatest moral power on earth, through the Concordat expressed its confidence in the new German government."
- Guenter Lewy, The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany
I'm sorry I did not respond sooner. I haven't been on youtube for a bit.
The Church had concordats with a dozen+ countries at the time, seeking to protect the innocent, not confirm evil. Your quoting of the Cardinal would be tempered with a couple pertinent facts about him: he was a critic of Hitler's government and his life was often in danger because of this. He was respected by Jews who said:
"we will never forget how you...saved thousands of Jewish persons from terror and lethal violence."
Furthermore, Pope Pius XII was not inactive: In 1937 he denounced both antisemitism and Hitler and had his work read in the parishes of Germany. Through the course of the war, the Vatican used buildings such as monasteries to shelter Jews from danger. Fake baptismal records were issued, and these measures saved many, many lives. Pius XII was considered a "righteous gentile" by many for his efforts, and only recently have ideologically driven experts sought to besmirch his character.
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Chris, what does the church teach about marrying outside the church. Although the Catholic church would still be buring books, and witches for that matter if allowed. But this is their way of using fear to do their bidding.
Another pompous "celibate" clergyman talking about women's rights. You can always tell how insidious a religion is when you see how they treat women. The catholic church is an ignorant superstitious organization whose days are numbered.
No wonder we call him Finn the Cool where we live. He comes out with often unpopular views in order to show the love of a shepherd for his errant flock.
God grant him many more years to lead us to the Truth!
"But I'm starting to see that any attempt to establish logical facts is a complete waste of time here, you just keep jumping from topic to topic randomly." I answered the arguments your offered. Look back over the exchange. Furthermore, how have I "jumped from topic to topic"? The comment you first responded to today was aimed at those insulting Bishop Finn, not you.
I see some people here know a lot of unkind words and few facts about this good, principled, faithful, and nonpartisan bishop!
It is cruel and illogical to attack this courageous bishop for the failures of others. The baseless and spiteful attacks leveled here just serve to make the attackers look bad, not Bishop Finn.
watercruiser...No...You are talking of old conservatives or the voters in the South but besides those I named off, Most White People voted for Obama for Various reasons some you named but most you say "You say want control over minorities=These are called racist and you basically called all White males racist...yes in certain parts of the country but all of the ones I know...No
White males see their control over women, minorities etc. slipping away and it pisses them off. So they do what despots have done forever, use the law to oppress certain groups of people under the banner of morality.
If they were seriously concerned with morality, they fight equally hard against the bombardment during primetime of erectile dysfunction drug commercials. Why are they against stem cell research, but not fertility clinics that destroy millions of embryos? Hypocrite control freaks
And why should any catholic believe what bishops says about morality? The bishops have no moral credibility after how they handled the priest abuse scandal. They are liars, hypocrites and they tried to intimate victims to save the church money. They are the lowest of the low.
Give it some time - they are trying to kick gays out of the seminaries but it's not that easy especially in the US since they passed a lot of bullshit legislation against this. There hasn't been a single scandal like this in my country and I guess the Church will finally handle it even in US.
Finn's distortion of Obama's position is a lie & his own fanatical absolutism on abortion makes Obama look even more reasonable by contrast. Finn IS a fundamentalist, a literalist adherent to dogma. This fundamentalism is a distortion of Catholicism & Christianity at large. People like Sumusviri disallow any point of view other than their own on abortion, & turn a blind eye to the many ways that the "pro-life" politicians they support pursue murderous policies against life outside the womb.
What has Bishop Finn distorted? Obama said that he would sign the Freedom of Choice Act as his first act as President. FOCA will undo almost all restictions on abortion. What is untrue here? If that is not fanatical support of abortion, what is?
More than 50% of Catholics thumbed their noses at fundamentalist bishops like Finn. I will follow my own conscience, I don't need people like him treating me like a child. I must follow my conscience, and in good conscience I couldn't vote for McCain. Lucky fanatics like this are in the minority. Pro-Life= Good Fundamentalist like Finn -- Bad Besides more people die each day of starvation than Abortion, where is Bishop Finn to address that issue?
It is disrespectful, and inaccurate, to call Bishop Finn a "fundamentalist." Bishop Finn is simply a faithful Catholic who told the truth, which he is bound by Christ to do: Abortion is a grave evil, and Catholics should not vote for a politician who supports abortion up to and after birth, especially when there are alternative, pro-life tickets.
If one has voted for Obama, one must find a damn good reason to tell those murdered by Abortion as to why he voted for a man who promised to sign FOCA, which removes almost all restrictions on abortion. And the economy, the war, and immigration don't trump the evil of the unmitigated Slaughter of MILLIONS of babies in their mothers wombs.
If you agree with abortion you SHOULD leave the church. When was the last time you heard of a mother dying giving birth? Please! If a woman is raped and gets pregnant, she cannot give the child up for adoption? C'mon, give me a REAL reason to murder a child.
AmericaGreatAmerica: It is the mother's choice. No one is forced to 'kill babies' Women deserve to have a choice in the situations i described, and Republicans frankly do not care about women's rights apparently. The fact that the woman could die in childbirth with the child is lost on people like you!
WTF? if abortion is illegal, then people will just do it in back alleys by hitting the fetus inside the mother with a baseball bat or falling on glass! This example occurs today, and ends up harming all of those involved. Not to mention the fact that those who are raped under the republican plan will have to risk being killed in childbirth, saving no one! (ref: teenage pregnancies from rape)
What a ridiculous response. He is referring to Obamas infanticide issue. Tell me how it is OK to breech birth an 8 1/2 month fetus(I call it a baby), and while the head is still in the mother and baby is breathing they stick a knife in its head. Then if it is born alive, Obama doesn't mind if it is left alone in pain to die. WAKE UP. If someone is so stupid to fall on glass or use a baseball bat then so be it. The baby did not have a choice. It is murder.
AmericaGreatAmerica: It is the mother's choice. No one is forced to 'kill babies' Women deserve to have a choice in the situations i described, and Republicans frankly do not care about women's rights apparently. The fact that the woman could die in childbirth with the child is lost on people like you!
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My hope is that the catholic church along with most other christian denominations will have less and less power to influence citizens in the future. Their time was the dark ages, and now we have an opening to truth and progress. They will not hold us back any longer.
This guy is on the ball. I mean, if the last 8 years have tought us anything, it's that all you have to do is vote for the one who says they're anti-abortion and everything will be great! Abortion is illegal now after 8 years of an anti-abortion president right? I was sure it was.
Ya, it's totally worth ignoring all the other factors and focusing on who says they're anti-abortion. It's not like that issue will just be pushed onto the back burner again after the election. No way.
your forgetting about our majority democratic house. the president actually isnt the one who makes the laws. he can propose laws, but his man purpose is to execute them.
sorry, im taking gov. this yeat, and just felt like saying that. of course, this is just my opinion :-)
this is just this guy's opinion. other Catholic bishops have stated that it is okay to vote for obama AS LONG as you are not voting for him because of his stance on abortion.
i am a Catholic, and if it wasnt for obama's stance on abortion and economics, i would be supporting him as well. however, my personal concience will not let me. does that mean its a sin to vote for obama? heck no! in my opinion, he would make a better leader than mccain.
"other Catholic bishops have stated that it is okay to vote for obama AS LONG as you are not voting for him because of his stance on abortion."
No, they didn't. They said that in SOME cases, if there are two candidates who support the grave evils of abortion and euthanasia (just for starters), a person in some cases may vote for the lesser evil. There is no one to the left of Obama on these issues, and certainly not McCain. Type "FOCA" into a search engine. You'll see part of what I refer to.
First I would like evidence of which bishop actually said that.
Secondly, War, the death penalty, and disparate economic opinions are important issues, but they are not intrinsically evil. Abortion's only purpose, ridding a women of a child, is always evil.
I'm glad that you say that Abortion is more important than these other important issues. I agree that McCain's support of ESCR, which was about the same to BO's, was wrong.
The Church teaches that the execution of criminals is allowed in rare cases. Granted, in our modern age, the death penalty is hardly necessary, but the execution of convicted felons, unfortunate as it is, is not equal to the slaughter committed through abortion.
Obama, when he signs the Freedom of Choice Act, will force tax-payer funding of abortion. This is inexcusable.
i agree that it is inexcusable. its an infringement on my constitutional rights! if he does get this passed, i will boycot taxes. sure, i can get arrested, but for what? expressing my freedom of regilion? yes, taxes are necessary for our country's survival, but i refuse to pay for someone else to have an abortion, even if its just a penny.
Yes, I fail to see how people can use the law to force others to support abortion through taxes. I am not going to let them walk over my right quietly.
"It is only if human life is respected from conception to death that the ethics of peace is also possible and credible," concluded the Pope. "It is only then that non-violence can express itself in every direction; only then that we truly welcome creation, and only then that we can arrive at true justice." Pope Benedict XVI
If enacted, FOCA would obliterate hundreds of state laws that protect women, parents, children, and health care workers, while forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for millions of abortions. It would overturn commonsense laws like parental notification, Conscience Protections, abortion waiting periods, informed consent, and regulations for women's health.
Obama's Freedom of Choice Act
Under FOCA Christian Hospitals can be sued for not wanting to perform an abortion.
I am so glad I voted for Obama. Public Hospitals should not have a choice as to whether they perform abortions. YOUR God is not the problem. The bs you do in his name is.
You better be glad that you'll become part of Islam pretty soon too. Because if you dont, they'll chop off your head! I Cant believe you support baby killing. Docters just go in there then snap there spinal cords for instant death. Democrats make me sick.
"Number one," said Obama, explaining his reluctance to protect born infants, "whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a - a child, a 9-month old -- child that was delivered to term.
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first of all as far as the catholic church goes, their doctrine is seriously flawed and contrary to the gospel of jesus. they believe in worshiping mary and the saints. and aren't they the ones that protect their priest when they molest little boys. that doesn't sound like the christianity i know!
i strongly suggest that you re read history again - hey, why not scripture as well. we honor mary and the followers of christ. we do not worship them. as for protecting priest, why not read more neutral news report about it?
When was the last time you stepped inside a Catholic Church? When was the last time you studied Catholic Doctrine? When was the last time you even read The Catholic Encyclopedia or The Catechism of the Catholic Church?
set down the chick tract...back away slowly...slowly...you don't have to read it anymore. now pick up your copy of Surprised by Truth...open it, read it without bias...there you go, you'll start to understand.
I agree. Read about history, sorry to point out the fact if you are christian, it was based in the Catholic faith and tradition.
Question for you gmaninbk, do you ever ask someone to pray for you? If you do, or if you pray for others, then you are participating in exactly in what Catholic's do when adoring Mary or praying to the Saints. They intercede for those who pray to them, they are asking for their prayers, not answers. Before you bash, become educated.
"Choose life or choose death" do you see a middle ground here? Can you choose death for some "other" the old + infirm or an unborn child. Not without claiming death as your own.
Talk to a parent you respect, who has lost a child, wether through "choice" or other-wise, that loss they have not forgotten.
I'm glad that your mother and mine chose life; now You + I can do more to help those parents for whom the choice of "life" seems of equal devasation.
When they aren't molesting little boys, or swimming in their tax-exempt money, they are telling you how to vote. Abortion very well may be an immoral action, but that is between the person getting the abortion and God. Religion has no place in politics.
Ah, viciously and personally attacking a bishop that you clearly know nothing about. How hopeful. That's change?
Furthermore, abortion either is murder, or it isn't. We impose laws against murder, yet that is not 'religion in politics.' Abortion is an issue concerning natural law, not religion. When Bishop Finn tells Catholics that they cannot support abortion and remain Catholic, he practicing his Catholic faith, and therefore is exercising his constitutional right.
Bishop Finn is just pointing out there are consequences to supporting an evil like abortion either directly or indirectly. Taking responsibility for our actions often is overlooked or pointed elsewhere these days. People talk of the right to live and act freely, but they are allowed to do so first of all because their mothers chose life. If you can not respect the very foundational right of a person to be born what can you respect?
Your argument suggests that the right of the unborn should outweigh the rights of the already born. _KEEPING_ abortion legal doesn't hinder the rights of anyone to choose to have children. As for arguments of pointing out great individuals who wouldn't have been born if their mothers aborted them, well think about the multitudes of people that do not fit the demographic. If someone can't raise a child, I rather they abort the fetus rather than ruin the child's life for 18 years afterbirth.
I'm saying the rights of the unborn should equal the rights of those born. Keeping abortion legal doesn't hinder the choice to have children as you say, but it also gives people a "right" that is not theirs. Humans do not own one another and I no more own the right over your life as a mother over her innocent, unborn child. I wonder why adoption is not the end in your argument? There are many out there who would happily raise a child if the birth mother is unfit to do so.
For those of you who have never been able to bring yourselves to accept how truly loony the prelates of the Catholic Church are here's yet another opportunity for you to hear first hand how unbelievably pompous, delusional, petty and hateful these guys are, across the board. When you see one coming, you'd better run. Or at least turn your back.
Look at all the anti catholic biggots posts down below. The hatred people feel toward the church is sickening. Yes some priests were terrible, but the overall message is good. I feel sorry for those haters
Is that the best you can do JoesephKnight93? I type fast, hit an extra b and that is all you can correct me on? Wow, public schools really did a fine job for you. No argument so go over someones typing. How sad. You can do better.....come on and try.....I know you can find something better than that. Can't you? No other argument to make? Seriously, is that all you can offer? I feel sorry for you. try again.....I know you can come up with something.
For some strange reason catholics attempt to shame those who don't agree with them. The fact is the catholic church in Europe is no longer a major force. This is because europeans have seen the negative effects of the church on its culture over the centuries. It's not secularism that is the problem, as Joseph Ratzinger preaches. It's the ignorance, superstition, and stupidity of catholics (including the hierarchy) that is causing the decline of the church.
That is a very sad and ignorant statement, spoken by yet another person who feels he does not need God. The truth of the matter is there are more and more godless people like you that feel they can live as they please and have no need for God in their lives. True the people of the church have made some mistakes, but God has not. I truly feel sorry for you as you have rejected God. Funny how many people like you ran to church after 911.....only when you needed God. I feel very sorry for you.
Sorry JosephKnight.Saw you are just a little 15 yr old kid and that is probably the best you can do. Find a word that is missppeellleed (:-) and think you are a man. I am sorry did not realize you were just a little kid and could not put together another argument. My mistake. Please feel free to fire back. I will not read it. Sorry kid, I shouldnt have made the pub school comment as you are so young and are not old enough to offer anything else. Have last word, I won't read nor respond.
"shouldnt" Haven't you ever heard of a little thing called an apostrophe? How dumb are you? PS. I'm 11 years old and even I know that much. Go set sail on your fail boat as you contemplate how much you suck at life.
LOL. A 28 yr old pretending he is 11. What a sad individual. Again, crying about typing. What an ignorant individual. Is that the best you have to offer? I know you went to public school and worry about typing when you have no argument to make. I feel sorry for you. Now stop wasting my time and go back to your minimum wage job. Now I will not read nor respond to your ignorance as you have wasted more of my time...Sad you have nothing better to argue. Hence your low level in this world.
For now, ignore my original comment. (And please, do respond. I cannot detect a single difference between my intellectual capacity and that of an adult, and I encourage you to attempt to prove your own mental worth by replying instead of cowering behind the digital facade that is the internet.) This time I will address the original comment that you submitted, and show how you misunderstand the message of the "anti catholic" haters.
I agree with you fundamentally, for I feel that the overall message of the Catholic Church is good, and at least not dogmatic fundamentally, unlike Protestant denominations. However, some Catholic tenets are no better that anyone else's, and the arguments presented elsewhere on this page -- which you call hateful -- are valid critiques of specifically Catholic, and generally religious doctrine.
For example, thehomelessguy says, "This priest is the reason our country will burn in Hell." I doubt that he literally means this, but his point is fair. Religion and parochialism have always tended to breed intolerance, as a broad pattern, and remarks like the one in the above video are indicative of a disturbing, and perennial, trend. Such feelings cannot be good for a nation.
Synnerman says: "The Dark Ages are over. Take your theocratic impulses to the Middle East."
He makes two points, neither of which is specifically anti-Catholic. (1)Skeptical analysis and scientific freedom have, since the Dark Ages (when heretics were killed for their rationality) allowed science to narrow, perhaps even eliminate, the place for God in our universe. (2) Theocracy has never gone too well for countries both in previous history and in modern day. Consider Iran.
Vwtch (my last example) is admittedly acrimonious, unfairly so. I will not here quote his statement, as it is lengthy, but read it and you will see that he himself is intolerant. That said, his point, stripped of acerbity, is fair. Most religious people (Christians in my American experience) do seem to hide troubling or malevolent ideas on various issues.
As for your line on the public schools, I agree completely. I am appalled at the inefficacy of the PS to provide an adequate education in so many ways, I will not begin to explain. Much of my education has stemmed from my auto-didacticism, including my most precious thing: my sense of wonder at the natural world.
Please respond to these comments, if you feel you have a chance winning an argument with a "little 15 yr old kid."
If voting for a candidate whose views include supporting the legality of something that could be considered immoral will cause one to go to hell, then I'm pretty sure that voting for anyone will send you to hell. A vote for Bush would mean that you actively participated in torture, after all. Or is torture not a sin anymore in the Catholic church? It's been a while since I left, back when I was a member I think that child rape was also a sin, things have definitely changed.
If you left the church, why waste your time on attacking her? Bishop Finn is a Faithful Bishop who was not part of the failure on sex abuse. He was just appointed recently, and has been very good. Get your facts, at least. But your twisting of church teaching doesn't reveal a mind open to the facts.
According to Bishop Finn, supporting someone who does not legally oppose something that is immoral (abortion) makes you personally complicit. I am using his own logic to hold him responsible for child abuse, not mine. I do not hold people responsible for the actions of others. And as for why I am "attacking" the church (which I'm not), the church is attacking my reproductive rights. That's why!
What evil has Bishop Finn supported? He was installed in '05. He is not guilty of failure in the sex abuse scandal, unlike some other leaders.
The Church is defending the right of unborn persons to live. If all 'fetuses' are just an extension of a woman's body, how do you explain the fact that many babies have a different blood type than their mothers? How can that baby be just another organ, when he/she has completely unique DNA?
When did I say that a fetus was an organ? I went to an engineering college to study molecular biology, I highly doubt I would say something so ridiculous. You're just arguing with the weak points you WISH I were making, rather than the words I am actually saying. Therefore I can say anything I want so that you can bring out your canned, ready-made reply. Sock monkey! Water bottle! Honeydew melon! Falling gas prices! Batmobile! Hey, this is the most fun youtube argument ever. Thanks!
But you did say "And as for why I am "attacking" the church (which I'm not), the church is attacking my reproductive rights."
Now, you have control of your body, but you do not have to right to destroy another life within you. If the infant were not a human life, but an extension of your body, you might have an argument. But it is another life, a completely separate human, deserving of respect and protection. I did not claim you said something you didn't.
I see, you're arguing semantics. You have a problem with my word choice of "right" referring to contraception, etc. That's fine, you may not consider these things rights, but I do. I can play this game too, you claimed "the Church is defending the right of unborn persons to live." This is not true. The Church is attempting to prohibit abortion as well as contraception, and based on this video they are trying to legally prohibit abortion. (stay tuned for part 2!)
Unfortunately, making abortion illegal does not prevent abortion. The simple numbers and reality don't lie. Criminalizing abortion results in the same numbers of abortions, they just become illegal and therefore possibly unsafe. The only thing that prevents abortion is contraception. The Church is against contraception. Therefore, if you want to talk reality, the Church seeks to cause more abortions and reduce women's safety. How's that for semantics?
Absurd. Failure of condoms, etc, leads those who obviously rejected life last night to destroy it today through abortion. Contraceptives decrease respect for life, abstinence and respect for human sexuality increase respect and defense of life. Yours is a false conclusion.
Please show me the statistics that demonstrate that the legal status of murder is not linked to its incidence. The latest studies show that the legal status of abortion does not affect its incidence.
And yes, if you were correct that rape being illegal does not deter rape (which I do not believe for a second), I would indeed argue that criminaliz
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Twenty-five Notre Dame faculty members–led by the university’s top ethics expert, and including some of the school’s most eminent scholars–have signed a statement declaring that President Barack Obama’s latest version of his administration’s mandate that all health insurance plans in the United States must cover sterilizations and all FDA-approved contraceptives, including those that cause abortions, is “a grave violation of religious freedom and cannot stand.”
MsRepoDude 1 week ago
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The mackerel-snapper vote for Soetoro:
54% of pew warmers
60%+ of clergy
January 2012: PAYBACK
Summer 2012: Federally mandated abortion
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahaha
JerseyAtheist 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The mackerel-snapper vote for Soetoro:
54% of pew warmers
60%+ of clergy
January 2012: PAYBACK
Summer 2012: Federally mandated abortion
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahaha
JerseyAtheist 2 weeks ago
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The mackerel-snapper vote for Soetoro:
54% of pew warmers
60%+ of clergy
January 2012: PAYBACK
Summer 2012: Federally mandated abortion
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahaha
JerseyAtheist 2 weeks ago
Do your home work before you speak. Catholic Clergy only has had 1.7% of its clergy accused of misconduct with children while Protestants has 10% of their clergy accused of misconduct with children. It's had either way but before ypu speak do your homework.
rcarnes1988 4 weeks ago
Catholic clergy only has 1.7% of its clergy ever accused of misconduct hmmm while PROTESTANT Clergy has around 10% of its clergy that has been accused of misconduct. Its horribly wrong either way but do your home work before you start screaming you all need to work on yourselves as well.
rcarnes1988 4 weeks ago
We need more Bishops speaking out
rcarnes1988 4 weeks ago
Bishop Finn, pedophile priest enabler...
yardgoods 3 months ago
@yardgoods Yardgoods, uninformed ignoramus.
cllewis1 3 weeks ago
@cllewis1 I repeat: Bishop Finn is a pedophile priest enabler. He should be defrocked and put in jail. It is you who are an uniformed ignoramus.
yardgoods 3 weeks ago
pedofile - child molester
hawaiimethodman 4 months ago
He talks about "participant in the act" and "eternal salvation".
How do you think it will affect your eternal salvation, Bishop Finn, that you concealed a known pedophile and left him around children for a year? You were a participant in the act, and a participant in the bishops that concealed and covered up child sex abuse in the church.
You are a typical bishop and a horrible person, and can preach from jail.
patrickomalleyy 8 months ago
This is Bishop Finn, the "pedophile priest protector" from Kansas City. Please pressure the DA to throw Finn and his other conspirators in jail, after allowing Ratigan around children for a year after he was absolutely confirmed to be a pedophile.
patrickomalleyy 8 months ago
I met this Bishop once, he is a very nice person.
afcheviron 1 year ago 2
who the hell does he think he is?????? BISHOP NORTHERN BRAIN YOU WENT TO WAL MART... 100 MADE IN CHINA = SUPPORTED ABORTION . GO SCRUB YOUR FLOOR AND .... WELL THE SCANDAL. WHO BOUGHT YOU?
JEANNESTARK 1 year ago
tell the priest to shut up and leave the alter boys alone. if you had a proper sex life the abuse of children wouldn't have been so high. bloody faith-heads.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 Step-fathers and near relations are the one-number sex abusers. Pedophilia has nothing to do with celibacy.
Sumusviri 1 year ago
@Sumusviri if they were celibate they wouldn't have abused children. celibacy is not a natural state for a person.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 dont put all priests in this category .A few bad apples does not spoil a bunch and yes if the sicko priests and preachers molested kids they would not be in celibacy . Celibacy is done with the help of God .
onclave6 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 Not having sex is as unnatural as not drinking wine. Abstinence as a personal, life-long commitment of oneself to Christ's Church is unusual but not abnormal.
Sumusviri 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 it is a problem that exists in all churches not just CAtholic . And it is a fraction of priests compared to the majority that are not . Preachers which you fail to mention (who do get married ) make up a huge fraction of the molestations . The devil sends his messengers with out that part of the message.
onclave6 1 year ago
@onclave6 i am an athiest and talk of the devil cuts no ice. unfortunately, chid abuse exists in all corners of society, so we have to be vigilant against it and not assume that because some one is frightened of hell, they will not perpertrate such dispicaple acts.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 you as an atheist need to be reminded not to be biased and just go after priests doing these action while there are preachers doing these same actions . You also have to be reminded that separation between church and state was meant for religion taking over government like Muslims do . You people tend to go after memorials for crosses when our kids go on class trips to pray at mosques and you do nothing .
onclave6 1 year ago
@onclave6 "you do nothing"
faith-heads are the ones who have tried to link church and state. athiests are forever fighting battles to keep sky-daddy out of courts and goverment buildings, be that islam or chtistianity. as an athiest, i "go after" the ignorance of believing in the supernatural without reason whether that be voodoo or hinduism.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 prayer in the class room does no harm it existed in the baby boom generation , now its not legal .When they prayed in class the Jahova witness or no believe walked out of room what harm did that do? Yet it was taken to the courts to decide . i think it should be brought top a vote among the people . The world would be a better place if that were the case liberal agenda would be screwed . As an atheist you go after the Christian and support the muslim . GOd is watching you
onclave6 1 year ago
@onclave6 "support the muslim"
your talking out your backside. i go after ignorant, childish beliefs in a sky-daddy no matter what name it is given. indoctrinating children into superstitious beliefs can only be bad and devisive to nations as a whole as all people of faith believe that theirs is the one true religion and the others should not get equal treatment. just look at iran/afghanistan.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 So are you mad at Bishop Finn because of sexual abuses which happened decades before he came to the diocese, or are you mad at him for his religious principles? I truly want to know why you are posting off-topic, ad hominem attacks against someone you believe to be misguided in his faith.
Sumusviri 1 year ago
@Sumusviri i will send you a vid to give you some idea of what i think. if you were a muslim, i would send a different one.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 you support muslims by even arguing with me about muslims , your sticking up for their faith and attacking us you hate christians .Teaching children that there is no God does damage . Without that belief we have no morals . You lie to your children if you tell them that . Research the case for Christ and you will realize you were wrong all along .This country was founded on Christian morals not Islam or atheist teaching for that matter . ACLU attacks Christians not Muslim .
onclave6 1 year ago
@onclave6 i never argued with you about muslims. jesus may never even have existed (if you can show that he did, go ahead). i would be lying to my children if i said there was a god as i have yet to see proof. btw, which god/s are you saying exists as there are thousands out there. as for researching the case for christ, i have and i found sweet F A. unlike your hatred of non-believers, i hate nobody but i have a strong dislike for superstition portrayed as truth with no evidence. thats lying!
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 Most Atheists confirmed he existed here in the human . Now the Pagan historians , confirm in their historical documents he was here in the human form . And of course Shroud of Turan is also proof . Your need to open your eyes if you have not seen existence of GOd . Now You were either misguided as a child or met up with the wrong influence . There are miracle cases all around Quadulupee , Lanciano ,Turan etc .Your Lying to yourself by claiming there is no GOd without looking .
onclave6 1 year ago
@onclave6 i have looked for a god!!! i found none. i found what i was looking for in evolution via natural selection. a reason for being. by having a closed mind, you are lying to yourself. i am just in the process of reading 'The Greatest Show On Earth by Richard Dawkins, a book i believe holds more truth than all the superstitions, including yours, put together.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
@fourbabies1 Perhaps you did not look hard enough . A hypocrite to boot . You call me close minded yet you wont read any books providing a case for his existence , or look up any of the cases provided in the past for his existence . Two books to read: Answering The New Atheism (by Scott Haun) and The Godless Delusion (by Patrick Madrid ) Books written to argue The God Delusion (by Richard Dawkins) Open your mind to that my little Dawkins Disciple
onclave6 1 year ago 2
@onclave6 i've read books on "his existence", the most recent being 'the dawkins delusion' , i forget who by, a direct rebuttal to the god delusion by richard dawkins. a dissapointing read as it contained no evidence of a god. now, what have you read pertaining to why evolution is true and creation is false? if you haven't read anything then it is you with the closed mind.
fourbabies1 1 year ago
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I'm tired of listening to these religious leaders on their pick and choose topics to persuade the flock on how to vote or think....what about giving to the poor? war crimes? loving the sinner? corporate greed?...I could go on....
eightone81 2 years ago
The numbers of people killed through abortion completely eclipse the numbers of those killed through war crimes.
Besides, there's the danger from the intellectual crime of denying humanity to a certain group of people.
Which actions of Nazi Germany do you consider worse: that they invaded several nations in Europe, or that they worked to kill off a handful of groups of people?
That's the horror we feel against abortion.
BaronGrackle 2 years ago
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The church is just as much against war and the Death penalty as it is abortion. So how can catholics have voted for John McCain?
badtown88 2 years ago
There can never be a legitimate reason to kill a baby. Wars can sometimes be legitimate. The legitimacy of the death penalty is unclear, but it has not always and everywhere condemned as unjustified.
Sumusviri 2 years ago
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What you just typed is a stunning example of pure bullshit. I'd like to know where you get your information. The Catholic Church makes no distinction between killing a condemned man and killing a fetus. So I would really like to know how you come to that conclusion. My guess is that it makes you feel better about yourself. The truth is, any real Christian could not have voted period in the election.
badtown88 2 years ago
I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to attack my character. I hope you will dispassionately re-read my comment and notice I did not say anything about voting, as I was addressing your comparing of the evil of abortion with the death penalty. As you no doubt know, abortion is intrinsically evil. It can never be legitimate. As for the death penalty, more in a moment...
Sumusviri 2 years ago
... The Catechism states: "The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor."(CCC 2267)
The Church has not condemned capital punishment as intrinsically wrong, though it also says "cases of absolute necessity...are very rare, if not practically non-existent" .
Sumusviri 2 years ago
for IronSabine
You are speaking about that BABIES WITH AIDS who born from people who make sex without using preservative like Catholic Church wants??
0odalisca0 3 years ago
Somebody said: ABORTION WILL ALWAYS BE LEGAL IN AMERICA. SO GET OVER IT. so damn emotional all you people. if you love life so much why arent you outside death row with your signs to stop executions. why dont you go over to iraq and hold up signs to the americans saying not to kill. why dont you go make youtube videos about little kids dying of aids in africa or the genocides in countless other places. love life?i think you are all delusional.get a life. how bout that
0odalisca0 3 years ago
I have a better idea, Oadalisca,....
WHY DONT YOU MAKE VIDEOS ABOUT BABIES WITH AIDS?
I believe you have confused an important point here. Roman Catholics, in the Christian world, place "innocence" and "hope" on a much higher level then others. We maintain that deciding whether a fetus has the right to survive based on its parents personal decisions is an attack against innocence and even hope itself. We are not questioning circumstances, we are protecting the unborn and yet living child.
IronSabine 3 years ago
So why dont YOU get over it?
If you want to have an abortion, then you go ahead and allow an abortionist to dismember your unborn child with an interuterine vacuum cleaner ( which is, technically, the device used), but bear in mind it is the mentality behind abortion, calling it "a choice", that others find fault with.
Getting aids is often a choice. Believe it or not, so is poverty. Hell, having sex is a choice. Going to work is a choice.
BEING BORN IS A RIGHT.
So grow up sweetheart
IronSabine 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
hahahah The HOly Homo catholic Church has murdered tortured, and raped and pilliaged more people than Hitler and Stalin combined and these perverted criminals have the criminal temerity to say they advocate LIFE after 2000 years of blood and gore?!?!?!?!?!?!....the SHAME...THE SHAME...THE SHAME!!!!
MonCheRachaeI 3 years ago
Wow, what "loving" and "peaceful" words.
First, you attacked Bishop Finn, and it was to that rash statement that I responded. Bishop Finn is not responsible for the past sins of others. Don't take your hatred for the Church out on a man you clearly do not know, and with statements you can't back up.
Secondly, the Church is here for sinners, to lead them to Christ. Whatever sinful acts have been committed in the past, they were committed by weak men, not by Christ's Church.
...
Sumusviri 3 years ago
...Thirdly, your statement that the Church has "murdered tortured, and raped and pilliaged(sic) more people than Hitler and Stalin combined" is incredible beyond belief and needs to be retracted. Show me where the Church ever advocated or caused through its teachings the death of tens of millions of people, as Stalin and Hitler did. You can't. Technically, when one invokes Hitler against his/her opponents, one loses the argument automatically.
...
Sumusviri 3 years ago
...Fourthly, even if your incredible attack on the Church were true, how does that absolve present day men from the slaughter of 48+ million babies in the womb? (and that is just in the U.S.) We stand or fall on our own.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
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You obviously were asleep during world history class when they covered The Great Crusades and when they covered the Catholic Church's complicity with Hitler until he turned on them too.
watercruiser 3 years ago
Watercruiser,
The Church was not complicit in Hitler's evil. Pope Pius XII did much to combat his evil. Jews of the time considered the pope a friend, and TIME magazine featured him positively on their cover.
Furthermore, whatever evil that was committed during the crusades, the Church did not endorse, defend, or promote it. To paraphrase "Henry V": No one, no matter how spotless his cause, can carry it out with all un-spotted soldiers. Those who did evil were themselves responsible for it.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
watercruiser 3 years ago
"First they came" is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (18921984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
watercruiser 3 years ago
Cardinal Faulhaber, who helped negotiate the concordat with Hitler (and who ordained the present pope), assessed its international impact in a 1937 sermon:
"At a time when the heads of the major nations in the world faced the new Germany with cool reserve and considerable suspicion, the Catholic Church, the greatest moral power on earth, through the Concordat expressed its confidence in the new German government."
- Guenter Lewy, The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany
watercruiser 3 years ago
I'm sorry I did not respond sooner. I haven't been on youtube for a bit.
The Church had concordats with a dozen+ countries at the time, seeking to protect the innocent, not confirm evil. Your quoting of the Cardinal would be tempered with a couple pertinent facts about him: he was a critic of Hitler's government and his life was often in danger because of this. He was respected by Jews who said:
"we will never forget how you...saved thousands of Jewish persons from terror and lethal violence."
Sumusviri 2 years ago
Furthermore, Pope Pius XII was not inactive: In 1937 he denounced both antisemitism and Hitler and had his work read in the parishes of Germany. Through the course of the war, the Vatican used buildings such as monasteries to shelter Jews from danger. Fake baptismal records were issued, and these measures saved many, many lives. Pius XII was considered a "righteous gentile" by many for his efforts, and only recently have ideologically driven experts sought to besmirch his character.
Sumusviri 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
so THAT is how a pedophile dresses...in pink!
MonCheRachaeI 3 years ago
Calumny, stupid calumny.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Chris, what does the church teach about marrying outside the church. Although the Catholic church would still be buring books, and witches for that matter if allowed. But this is their way of using fear to do their bidding.
chicnranch 3 years ago
GOD BLESS BISHOP ROBERT FINN!
teely518402 3 years ago 2
Bishop Robert Finn bless god.
tonygem 3 years ago
Another pompous "celibate" clergyman talking about women's rights. You can always tell how insidious a religion is when you see how they treat women. The catholic church is an ignorant superstitious organization whose days are numbered.
tonygem 3 years ago
Excellent! Too bad so many Catholics didn't pay attention.
henrydaniell 3 years ago
Praise God for words of wisdom.
imromancatholic 3 years ago
No wonder we call him Finn the Cool where we live. He comes out with often unpopular views in order to show the love of a shepherd for his errant flock.
God grant him many more years to lead us to the Truth!
leticiavelasquez 3 years ago
"But I'm starting to see that any attempt to establish logical facts is a complete waste of time here, you just keep jumping from topic to topic randomly." I answered the arguments your offered. Look back over the exchange. Furthermore, how have I "jumped from topic to topic"? The comment you first responded to today was aimed at those insulting Bishop Finn, not you.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
I see some people here know a lot of unkind words and few facts about this good, principled, faithful, and nonpartisan bishop!
It is cruel and illogical to attack this courageous bishop for the failures of others. The baseless and spiteful attacks leveled here just serve to make the attackers look bad, not Bishop Finn.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
White Males control over Women.....Wow that's a Pot calling the Kettle Black... Don't go pointing fingers so quickly.
mrwoody1 3 years ago
watercruiser...No...You are talking of old conservatives or the voters in the South but besides those I named off, Most White People voted for Obama for Various reasons some you named but most you say "You say want control over minorities=These are called racist and you basically called all White males racist...yes in certain parts of the country but all of the ones I know...No
mrwoody1 3 years ago
White males see their control over women, minorities etc. slipping away and it pisses them off. So they do what despots have done forever, use the law to oppress certain groups of people under the banner of morality.
If they were seriously concerned with morality, they fight equally hard against the bombardment during primetime of erectile dysfunction drug commercials. Why are they against stem cell research, but not fertility clinics that destroy millions of embryos? Hypocrite control freaks
watercruiser 3 years ago
And why should any catholic believe what bishops says about morality? The bishops have no moral credibility after how they handled the priest abuse scandal. They are liars, hypocrites and they tried to intimate victims to save the church money. They are the lowest of the low.
tonygem 3 years ago
Give it some time - they are trying to kick gays out of the seminaries but it's not that easy especially in the US since they passed a lot of bullshit legislation against this. There hasn't been a single scandal like this in my country and I guess the Church will finally handle it even in US.
kakaokaka 3 years ago
Finn's distortion of Obama's position is a lie & his own fanatical absolutism on abortion makes Obama look even more reasonable by contrast. Finn IS a fundamentalist, a literalist adherent to dogma. This fundamentalism is a distortion of Catholicism & Christianity at large. People like Sumusviri disallow any point of view other than their own on abortion, & turn a blind eye to the many ways that the "pro-life" politicians they support pursue murderous policies against life outside the womb.
jhowar1 3 years ago
What has Bishop Finn distorted? Obama said that he would sign the Freedom of Choice Act as his first act as President. FOCA will undo almost all restictions on abortion. What is untrue here? If that is not fanatical support of abortion, what is?
Sumusviri 3 years ago
More than 50% of Catholics thumbed their noses at fundamentalist bishops like Finn. I will follow my own conscience, I don't need people like him treating me like a child. I must follow my conscience, and in good conscience I couldn't vote for McCain. Lucky fanatics like this are in the minority. Pro-Life= Good Fundamentalist like Finn -- Bad Besides more people die each day of starvation than Abortion, where is Bishop Finn to address that issue?
nwside7725 3 years ago
It is disrespectful, and inaccurate, to call Bishop Finn a "fundamentalist." Bishop Finn is simply a faithful Catholic who told the truth, which he is bound by Christ to do: Abortion is a grave evil, and Catholics should not vote for a politician who supports abortion up to and after birth, especially when there are alternative, pro-life tickets.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
If one has voted for Obama, one must find a damn good reason to tell those murdered by Abortion as to why he voted for a man who promised to sign FOCA, which removes almost all restrictions on abortion. And the economy, the war, and immigration don't trump the evil of the unmitigated Slaughter of MILLIONS of babies in their mothers wombs.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
If you agree with abortion you SHOULD leave the church. When was the last time you heard of a mother dying giving birth? Please! If a woman is raped and gets pregnant, she cannot give the child up for adoption? C'mon, give me a REAL reason to murder a child.
blaineylover 3 years ago
Another good reason to leave the church...
jimwalsh2001 3 years ago
AmericaGreatAmerica: It is the mother's choice. No one is forced to 'kill babies' Women deserve to have a choice in the situations i described, and Republicans frankly do not care about women's rights apparently. The fact that the woman could die in childbirth with the child is lost on people like you!
KingRajRajRaj 3 years ago
WTF? if abortion is illegal, then people will just do it in back alleys by hitting the fetus inside the mother with a baseball bat or falling on glass! This example occurs today, and ends up harming all of those involved. Not to mention the fact that those who are raped under the republican plan will have to risk being killed in childbirth, saving no one! (ref: teenage pregnancies from rape)
KingRajRajRaj 3 years ago
What a ridiculous response. He is referring to Obamas infanticide issue. Tell me how it is OK to breech birth an 8 1/2 month fetus(I call it a baby), and while the head is still in the mother and baby is breathing they stick a knife in its head. Then if it is born alive, Obama doesn't mind if it is left alone in pain to die. WAKE UP. If someone is so stupid to fall on glass or use a baseball bat then so be it. The baby did not have a choice. It is murder.
AmericaGreatAmerica 3 years ago
AmericaGreatAmerica: It is the mother's choice. No one is forced to 'kill babies' Women deserve to have a choice in the situations i described, and Republicans frankly do not care about women's rights apparently. The fact that the woman could die in childbirth with the child is lost on people like you!
KingRajRajRaj 3 years ago
Dude looks like a kid toucher if I ever saw one...creepy.
mookworthjwilson 3 years ago
God bless Bishop Finn for defending innocent life. To your vile and calumnious comment, mookworthjwilson, I say this:
Remember, if the world rejects you, that it has rejected me before you.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
God bless Bishop Finn for defending innocent life. To your vile and calumnious comment, mookworthjwilson, I say this:
Remember, if the world rejects you, that it has rejected me before you.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
My hope is that the catholic church along with most other christian denominations will have less and less power to influence citizens in the future. Their time was the dark ages, and now we have an opening to truth and progress. They will not hold us back any longer.
tonygem 3 years ago
"Their time was the dark ages, and now we have an opening to truth and progress."
How often that has been said. Without roots in the truth, one is subject to the winds of popular whims.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
LOL..nice purple robe
kthankxbye 3 years ago
This guy is on the ball. I mean, if the last 8 years have tought us anything, it's that all you have to do is vote for the one who says they're anti-abortion and everything will be great! Abortion is illegal now after 8 years of an anti-abortion president right? I was sure it was.
Ya, it's totally worth ignoring all the other factors and focusing on who says they're anti-abortion. It's not like that issue will just be pushed onto the back burner again after the election. No way.
Keyser118 3 years ago
your forgetting about our majority democratic house. the president actually isnt the one who makes the laws. he can propose laws, but his man purpose is to execute them.
sorry, im taking gov. this yeat, and just felt like saying that. of course, this is just my opinion :-)
XCOREhippie721 3 years ago
this is just this guy's opinion. other Catholic bishops have stated that it is okay to vote for obama AS LONG as you are not voting for him because of his stance on abortion.
i am a Catholic, and if it wasnt for obama's stance on abortion and economics, i would be supporting him as well. however, my personal concience will not let me. does that mean its a sin to vote for obama? heck no! in my opinion, he would make a better leader than mccain.
XCOREhippie721 3 years ago
"other Catholic bishops have stated that it is okay to vote for obama AS LONG as you are not voting for him because of his stance on abortion."
No, they didn't. They said that in SOME cases, if there are two candidates who support the grave evils of abortion and euthanasia (just for starters), a person in some cases may vote for the lesser evil. There is no one to the left of Obama on these issues, and certainly not McCain. Type "FOCA" into a search engine. You'll see part of what I refer to.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
actually, they did.
is supporting an unjust war for life? no.
is supporting the death penality for life? no.
is supporting the rich and mostly ignoring the poor for life? no.
unborn life may outweigh other issues, but neither canidate is 100% prolife, even mccain.
XCOREhippie721 3 years ago
First I would like evidence of which bishop actually said that.
Secondly, War, the death penalty, and disparate economic opinions are important issues, but they are not intrinsically evil. Abortion's only purpose, ridding a women of a child, is always evil.
I'm glad that you say that Abortion is more important than these other important issues. I agree that McCain's support of ESCR, which was about the same to BO's, was wrong.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
first off, the death penalty is murder. Jesus preached against 'an eye for an eye.'
XCOREhippie721 3 years ago
The Church teaches that the execution of criminals is allowed in rare cases. Granted, in our modern age, the death penalty is hardly necessary, but the execution of convicted felons, unfortunate as it is, is not equal to the slaughter committed through abortion.
Obama, when he signs the Freedom of Choice Act, will force tax-payer funding of abortion. This is inexcusable.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
i agree that it is inexcusable. its an infringement on my constitutional rights! if he does get this passed, i will boycot taxes. sure, i can get arrested, but for what? expressing my freedom of regilion? yes, taxes are necessary for our country's survival, but i refuse to pay for someone else to have an abortion, even if its just a penny.
XCOREhippie721 3 years ago 3
Yes, I fail to see how people can use the law to force others to support abortion through taxes. I am not going to let them walk over my right quietly.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
Oh.....I remember that commandment......#11 - Thall shalt not vote for someone who may possibly increase the number of abortions....
Nordhagen1 3 years ago
He's got some nice bling bling.
kaduisaui 3 years ago
"It is only if human life is respected from conception to death that the ethics of peace is also possible and credible," concluded the Pope. "It is only then that non-violence can express itself in every direction; only then that we truly welcome creation, and only then that we can arrive at true justice." Pope Benedict XVI
teton99 3 years ago
If enacted, FOCA would obliterate hundreds of state laws that protect women, parents, children, and health care workers, while forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for millions of abortions. It would overturn commonsense laws like parental notification, Conscience Protections, abortion waiting periods, informed consent, and regulations for women's health.
Obama's Freedom of Choice Act
Under FOCA Christian Hospitals can be sued for not wanting to perform an abortion.
HOPE ??!!
teton99 3 years ago
I am so glad I voted for Obama. Public Hospitals should not have a choice as to whether they perform abortions. YOUR God is not the problem. The bs you do in his name is.
Gimmeabreakman 3 years ago
You better be glad that you'll become part of Islam pretty soon too. Because if you dont, they'll chop off your head! I Cant believe you support baby killing. Docters just go in there then snap there spinal cords for instant death. Democrats make me sick.
pollohit 3 years ago
Stupidity makes me sad.
Gimmeabreakman 3 years ago
Having pride is a sin. So humble yourself.
pollohit 3 years ago
Look in the mirror, buddy.
Gimmeabreakman 3 years ago
You should be institutionalized.
garofalol 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
nice spelling pollohit
mookworthjwilson 3 years ago
You know what I mean. Doctor's! Happy now?
pollohit 3 years ago
"Number one," said Obama, explaining his reluctance to protect born infants, "whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a - a child, a 9-month old -- child that was delivered to term.
Obama Is the Most Pro-Abortion Candidate Ever
By Terence P. Jeffrey
HOPE!?
teton99 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
first of all as far as the catholic church goes, their doctrine is seriously flawed and contrary to the gospel of jesus. they believe in worshiping mary and the saints. and aren't they the ones that protect their priest when they molest little boys. that doesn't sound like the christianity i know!
gmaninbk 3 years ago
i strongly suggest that you re read history again - hey, why not scripture as well. we honor mary and the followers of christ. we do not worship them. as for protecting priest, why not read more neutral news report about it?
quixoticfreak 3 years ago 3
When was the last time you stepped inside a Catholic Church? When was the last time you studied Catholic Doctrine? When was the last time you even read The Catholic Encyclopedia or The Catechism of the Catholic Church?
ElcubanitoKC73 3 years ago
set down the chick tract...back away slowly...slowly...you don't have to read it anymore. now pick up your copy of Surprised by Truth...open it, read it without bias...there you go, you'll start to understand.
cllewis1 3 years ago
I agree. Read about history, sorry to point out the fact if you are christian, it was based in the Catholic faith and tradition.
Question for you gmaninbk, do you ever ask someone to pray for you? If you do, or if you pray for others, then you are participating in exactly in what Catholic's do when adoring Mary or praying to the Saints. They intercede for those who pray to them, they are asking for their prayers, not answers. Before you bash, become educated.
stastrong 3 years ago
gmaninbk,
you know nothing about the catholic church, The church may not be perfect, but you are just making up completely unbased lies.
Thanks Ass Hole
underfoil 3 years ago
Thank you Bishop Finn!
bmzellmer 3 years ago 4
Breath of fresh air. Thank you Bishop Finn.
chrissy1095 3 years ago 2
Why do Catholics hate America having a healthy economy" :)
stoneman1975 3 years ago
"Choose life or choose death" do you see a middle ground here? Can you choose death for some "other" the old + infirm or an unborn child. Not without claiming death as your own.
Talk to a parent you respect, who has lost a child, wether through "choice" or other-wise, that loss they have not forgotten.
I'm glad that your mother and mine chose life; now You + I can do more to help those parents for whom the choice of "life" seems of equal devasation.
Be Forgiven 3:16 + Love Art
artstott 3 years ago
When they aren't molesting little boys, or swimming in their tax-exempt money, they are telling you how to vote. Abortion very well may be an immoral action, but that is between the person getting the abortion and God. Religion has no place in politics.
rodmofo 3 years ago
Ah, viciously and personally attacking a bishop that you clearly know nothing about. How hopeful. That's change?
Furthermore, abortion either is murder, or it isn't. We impose laws against murder, yet that is not 'religion in politics.' Abortion is an issue concerning natural law, not religion. When Bishop Finn tells Catholics that they cannot support abortion and remain Catholic, he practicing his Catholic faith, and therefore is exercising his constitutional right.
Sumusviri 3 years ago 2
well said. an issue of biology, not of dogma.
cllewis1 3 years ago 3
Bishop Finn is just pointing out there are consequences to supporting an evil like abortion either directly or indirectly. Taking responsibility for our actions often is overlooked or pointed elsewhere these days. People talk of the right to live and act freely, but they are allowed to do so first of all because their mothers chose life. If you can not respect the very foundational right of a person to be born what can you respect?
fidelis86 3 years ago
Your argument suggests that the right of the unborn should outweigh the rights of the already born. _KEEPING_ abortion legal doesn't hinder the rights of anyone to choose to have children. As for arguments of pointing out great individuals who wouldn't have been born if their mothers aborted them, well think about the multitudes of people that do not fit the demographic. If someone can't raise a child, I rather they abort the fetus rather than ruin the child's life for 18 years afterbirth.
dstryytb 3 years ago
I'm saying the rights of the unborn should equal the rights of those born. Keeping abortion legal doesn't hinder the choice to have children as you say, but it also gives people a "right" that is not theirs. Humans do not own one another and I no more own the right over your life as a mother over her innocent, unborn child. I wonder why adoption is not the end in your argument? There are many out there who would happily raise a child if the birth mother is unfit to do so.
fidelis86 3 years ago
For those of you who have never been able to bring yourselves to accept how truly loony the prelates of the Catholic Church are here's yet another opportunity for you to hear first hand how unbelievably pompous, delusional, petty and hateful these guys are, across the board. When you see one coming, you'd better run. Or at least turn your back.
vwtch 3 years ago 2
As a christian it saddens - even angers me - when someone from the church lies like this.
tskot 3 years ago
Sorry baby murderers. You're all going to hell.
slowdream101 3 years ago
The Dark Ages are over. Take your theocratic impulses to the Middle East.
synnerman 3 years ago 3
This priest is the reason our country will burn in Hell.
thehomelessguy 3 years ago
Look at all the anti catholic biggots posts down below. The hatred people feel toward the church is sickening. Yes some priests were terrible, but the overall message is good. I feel sorry for those haters
reasonandfacts 3 years ago
B-i-g-o-t.
Bigot.
JosephKnight93 3 years ago
Is that the best you can do JoesephKnight93? I type fast, hit an extra b and that is all you can correct me on? Wow, public schools really did a fine job for you. No argument so go over someones typing. How sad. You can do better.....come on and try.....I know you can find something better than that. Can't you? No other argument to make? Seriously, is that all you can offer? I feel sorry for you. try again.....I know you can come up with something.
reasonandfacts 3 years ago
For some strange reason catholics attempt to shame those who don't agree with them. The fact is the catholic church in Europe is no longer a major force. This is because europeans have seen the negative effects of the church on its culture over the centuries. It's not secularism that is the problem, as Joseph Ratzinger preaches. It's the ignorance, superstition, and stupidity of catholics (including the hierarchy) that is causing the decline of the church.
tonygem 3 years ago
That is a very sad and ignorant statement, spoken by yet another person who feels he does not need God. The truth of the matter is there are more and more godless people like you that feel they can live as they please and have no need for God in their lives. True the people of the church have made some mistakes, but God has not. I truly feel sorry for you as you have rejected God. Funny how many people like you ran to church after 911.....only when you needed God. I feel very sorry for you.
reasonandfacts 3 years ago
Sorry JosephKnight.Saw you are just a little 15 yr old kid and that is probably the best you can do. Find a word that is missppeellleed (:-) and think you are a man. I am sorry did not realize you were just a little kid and could not put together another argument. My mistake. Please feel free to fire back. I will not read it. Sorry kid, I shouldnt have made the pub school comment as you are so young and are not old enough to offer anything else. Have last word, I won't read nor respond.
reasonandfacts 3 years ago
"shouldnt" Haven't you ever heard of a little thing called an apostrophe? How dumb are you? PS. I'm 11 years old and even I know that much. Go set sail on your fail boat as you contemplate how much you suck at life.
rodmofo 3 years ago
LOL. A 28 yr old pretending he is 11. What a sad individual. Again, crying about typing. What an ignorant individual. Is that the best you have to offer? I know you went to public school and worry about typing when you have no argument to make. I feel sorry for you. Now stop wasting my time and go back to your minimum wage job. Now I will not read nor respond to your ignorance as you have wasted more of my time...Sad you have nothing better to argue. Hence your low level in this world.
reasonandfacts 3 years ago
lol, stop taking yourself so seriously. the whole point of writing that was to watch you get worked up over it.
rodmofo 3 years ago
All right, "reasonandfacts":
For now, ignore my original comment. (And please, do respond. I cannot detect a single difference between my intellectual capacity and that of an adult, and I encourage you to attempt to prove your own mental worth by replying instead of cowering behind the digital facade that is the internet.) This time I will address the original comment that you submitted, and show how you misunderstand the message of the "anti catholic" haters.
JosephKnight93 3 years ago
I agree with you fundamentally, for I feel that the overall message of the Catholic Church is good, and at least not dogmatic fundamentally, unlike Protestant denominations. However, some Catholic tenets are no better that anyone else's, and the arguments presented elsewhere on this page -- which you call hateful -- are valid critiques of specifically Catholic, and generally religious doctrine.
JosephKnight93 3 years ago
For example, thehomelessguy says, "This priest is the reason our country will burn in Hell." I doubt that he literally means this, but his point is fair. Religion and parochialism have always tended to breed intolerance, as a broad pattern, and remarks like the one in the above video are indicative of a disturbing, and perennial, trend. Such feelings cannot be good for a nation.
JosephKnight93 3 years ago
Synnerman says: "The Dark Ages are over. Take your theocratic impulses to the Middle East."
He makes two points, neither of which is specifically anti-Catholic. (1)Skeptical analysis and scientific freedom have, since the Dark Ages (when heretics were killed for their rationality) allowed science to narrow, perhaps even eliminate, the place for God in our universe. (2) Theocracy has never gone too well for countries both in previous history and in modern day. Consider Iran.
JosephKnight93 3 years ago
Vwtch (my last example) is admittedly acrimonious, unfairly so. I will not here quote his statement, as it is lengthy, but read it and you will see that he himself is intolerant. That said, his point, stripped of acerbity, is fair. Most religious people (Christians in my American experience) do seem to hide troubling or malevolent ideas on various issues.
JosephKnight93 3 years ago
As for your line on the public schools, I agree completely. I am appalled at the inefficacy of the PS to provide an adequate education in so many ways, I will not begin to explain. Much of my education has stemmed from my auto-didacticism, including my most precious thing: my sense of wonder at the natural world.
Please respond to these comments, if you feel you have a chance winning an argument with a "little 15 yr old kid."
JosephKnight93 3 years ago
Blah blah blah !
Freefalluniversity 3 years ago
Explain why this guy's racket deserves tax-exempt status.
dolapdere 3 years ago
Yeah, he should be taxed for speaking out against abortion. Oh, wait, that's protected by the constitution.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
If voting for a candidate whose views include supporting the legality of something that could be considered immoral will cause one to go to hell, then I'm pretty sure that voting for anyone will send you to hell. A vote for Bush would mean that you actively participated in torture, after all. Or is torture not a sin anymore in the Catholic church? It's been a while since I left, back when I was a member I think that child rape was also a sin, things have definitely changed.
lolomcspanky 3 years ago 2
If you left the church, why waste your time on attacking her? Bishop Finn is a Faithful Bishop who was not part of the failure on sex abuse. He was just appointed recently, and has been very good. Get your facts, at least. But your twisting of church teaching doesn't reveal a mind open to the facts.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
According to Bishop Finn, supporting someone who does not legally oppose something that is immoral (abortion) makes you personally complicit. I am using his own logic to hold him responsible for child abuse, not mine. I do not hold people responsible for the actions of others. And as for why I am "attacking" the church (which I'm not), the church is attacking my reproductive rights. That's why!
lolomcspanky 3 years ago
What evil has Bishop Finn supported? He was installed in '05. He is not guilty of failure in the sex abuse scandal, unlike some other leaders.
The Church is defending the right of unborn persons to live. If all 'fetuses' are just an extension of a woman's body, how do you explain the fact that many babies have a different blood type than their mothers? How can that baby be just another organ, when he/she has completely unique DNA?
Sumusviri 3 years ago
When did I say that a fetus was an organ? I went to an engineering college to study molecular biology, I highly doubt I would say something so ridiculous. You're just arguing with the weak points you WISH I were making, rather than the words I am actually saying. Therefore I can say anything I want so that you can bring out your canned, ready-made reply. Sock monkey! Water bottle! Honeydew melon! Falling gas prices! Batmobile! Hey, this is the most fun youtube argument ever. Thanks!
lolomcspanky 3 years ago
But you did say "And as for why I am "attacking" the church (which I'm not), the church is attacking my reproductive rights."
Now, you have control of your body, but you do not have to right to destroy another life within you. If the infant were not a human life, but an extension of your body, you might have an argument. But it is another life, a completely separate human, deserving of respect and protection. I did not claim you said something you didn't.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
I see, you're arguing semantics. You have a problem with my word choice of "right" referring to contraception, etc. That's fine, you may not consider these things rights, but I do. I can play this game too, you claimed "the Church is defending the right of unborn persons to live." This is not true. The Church is attempting to prohibit abortion as well as contraception, and based on this video they are trying to legally prohibit abortion. (stay tuned for part 2!)
lolomcspanky 3 years ago
Bishop Finn is talking about abortion. So was I. I thought you were talking about FOCA, not condoms. huh.
The Church is defending the rights of the unborn. Abortion kills unborn innocent humans. See?
Sumusviri 3 years ago
Unfortunately, making abortion illegal does not prevent abortion. The simple numbers and reality don't lie. Criminalizing abortion results in the same numbers of abortions, they just become illegal and therefore possibly unsafe. The only thing that prevents abortion is contraception. The Church is against contraception. Therefore, if you want to talk reality, the Church seeks to cause more abortions and reduce women's safety. How's that for semantics?
lolomcspanky 3 years ago
"The Church is defending the rights of the unborn. Abortion kills unborn innocent humans. See?"
The only way to stop abortions is contraception. See?
lolomcspanky 3 years ago
Absurd. Failure of condoms, etc, leads those who obviously rejected life last night to destroy it today through abortion. Contraceptives decrease respect for life, abstinence and respect for human sexuality increase respect and defense of life. Yours is a false conclusion.
Sumusviri 3 years ago
"Unfortunately, making abortion illegal does not prevent abortion."
Same for rape. And murder. And theft. Should we just allow it all, since some people will do it anyway?
And no, legalization of abortion has increased it. After 1973, abortions way went up. The Church is consistent in her defense of life...
Sumusviri 3 years ago
Please show me the statistics that demonstrate that the legal status of murder is not linked to its incidence. The latest studies show that the legal status of abortion does not affect its incidence.
And yes, if you were correct that rape being illegal does not deter rape (which I do not believe for a second), I would indeed argue that criminaliz