Fr. Barron comments on Apocalyptic Literature

[lawwellsy]

Father, just a note on modern cosmology - they've actually discovered that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate (hence the concept of dark matter/energy). There won't be a Big Crunch, just a Big Nothing (there won't even be black holes as the universe's temperature asymptotically approaches absolute zero).

Just an FYI.

[wordonfirevideo]

@lawwellsy Well, so they say for the moment! It wasn't very long ago that many cosmologists were talking readily of a Big Crunch. We'll see what they come up with next. My overall point is that none of this really touches on philosophical or metaphysical issues.

[lawwellsy]

@wordonfirevideo I never said that fact changed your point. On the matter of the Big Crunch, that's been out of favour for over a decade. But a Big Nothing is probably just as bad. From the Abyss we were formed, and the Abyss we shall become (there won't be black holes by the time of the end of the universe!).

[slaveofmary3]

@lawwellsy If you look at the Electric Universe theory, there is no need of silly unseeable things like supposed dark matter, and many other unsolved problems go away from the gravity only model. In fact to have magnetic fields, you must have electric current flow. Basic electrical engineering.I wonder why modern cosmology violates it? The electro-magnetic force is far stronger than gravity, and can explain things.

[lawwellsy]

@slaveofmary3 On the quantum scale, you are correct - EM is stronger than gravity. On the macro scale, however, the sheer distances and masses involved means that gravity beats out everything. Seriously, Newton's Law of Gravitation is not hard to understand. Check the Sun's mass and its electrical activity, and see which is stronger through the solar system. It's not hard maths.

[slaveofmary3]

@lawwellsy If you study plasma physics, you will find that the principles work on all scales. For example, comets are not dirty snowballs, but rocks with an electrical charge, the large charge from outside the solar system which discharge as a electronic capacitor when they approach the sun. That's why the temp around the sun is much higher than the surface, which gravity models cannot explain. The real math is plasma physics.

[lawwellsy]

@slaveofmary3 I actually think you should start by looking at electrical theory before you start trying to lecture on plasmas. You would know that a capacitor tends to leak electrcity. A natural capacitor would never retain any significant charge. Your theory is bunk, and gravity still rules. And seriously, do you want me to sit on you with the 10^30 kg sun? That's the scale you're up against.

[waisehell]

2000 years and there hasn't been a new god..we need a new one, we kind of started tor realise what christianity is

[lawwellsy]

@waisehell Two questions: (1) what exactly is wrong with the ancient God of Israel, and (2) if you are having a new deity simply because you have an issue with the old one, where has said deity been all this time?

Alas, I suppose you can only say such a thing if you think religions are manmade. Sorry to disappoint you, but that just ain't so. There's one that isn't, and that's the Faith of the Church.

[RomneyGack]

May I recommend my Youtube videos of Robert Hugh Benson's "Lord of the World"?

[LucyGoozie]

The music at the beginning of all his videos is catchy. :)

[feee99]

Do you believe in Adam and Eve and evolution?  How does that work?

[Cousinsjay]

the operative word here is "I think" then you follow that up with a very convoluted explanation about apocalyptic literature....wow....I just have one question. Do you think god inspired the bible???..The other words "Great Truths"come on bob your killing me..

[wordonfirevideo]

@Cousinsjay Well I might be "killing you" (whatever that means), but I'm offering you a standard Catholic reading of these texts, rooted in very ancient interpreters such as Origen and Augustine. As usual, Jay, you're battling with the fundamentalism of your youth. Catholics aren't fundamentalists, and inspiration is not equivalent to divine dictation.

[shawdawg89]

the world is forsaken since there are snakes around!!!!

[modomnoc1010]

Apocalyptic literature is a particular type of genre, apocalyptic - not history. It shows us Jesus Christ will eventually conquer this world and a new Jerusalem will reign. And in some senses Mass is a glimpse Heaven on earth. However, as Hal Lyndsey showed people want it to predict the end of the world.

[Lleanlleawrg]

"All political institutions come and they go" he says with a smile. And so it will be with Catholicism. Now it's my turn to smile.

[wordonfirevideo]

@Lleanlleawrg Well, I don't know. We've been around for 2000 years, and we've watched empires, nation states, cultural institutions, and international movements rise and fall around us. We've also got a guarantee from a pretty reliable source that he gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.

[Lleanlleawrg]

@wordonfirevideo I think you can chalk the longevity of your church to torturing to death anyone who dared oppose you for the better part of 1500 of those years.

[pmfrankcabrera]

@Lleanlleawrg : Your absolutely correct. Remember when all is revealed Catholicism will no longer be needed. Catholicism is the orthodox way to follow Christ, however, Catholicism is of this world...a tool to assist and guide us to the real thing which is eternity. And besides Catholicism is not a political institution, it is Christ's Mystical body. I can't wait for Catholicism to be taken away and be replaced by Christs heavenly Kingdom

[Lleanlleawrg]

@pmfrankcabrera Imho people should read religious text, with the frame of understanding that this was written by people just like you and me, and almost none of it is verifiable, and there is no evidence for God, even if you talk to him and thinks he talks back. Religion is poisonous, but what the scripture from various religions can teach us could be beneficial, but sift it through a lens of modern understanding would you please? Otherwise we end up with lots of unneccesary pain and suffering.

[worldofdraculas]

@Lleanlleawrg People should read history texts too. You accused Catholics of torturing people to death for disbelieving, but where and when did that really happen? It's a catchy thing to say, but it doesn't represent even a significant minority of Catholic history, and the bad things that happened in the name of the church do not reflect the teachings of Christ. Except for one: that humans are flawed.

[Lleanlleawrg]

@worldofdraculas The witchhunts and the inquisitions are quite famed for this type of behaviour. It wasn't usually because of disbelief, but it did occur. Here in Norway we had a king called King Olaf the Holy who had his very own crusade around the country, killing people who denied Christ. And Christ might have been against violence in life, but he was the one who introduced the concept of hell. Infinite punishment for finite "crime" is infinitely worse than anything you can endure in life.

[slaveofmary3]

@Lleanlleawrg Soon you will find that God exists and His Church is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - look up the Great Warning.

[Lleanlleawrg]

@slaveofmary3 How about no. Go play in traffic or something, you waste of space.

[slaveofmary3]

@Lleanlleawrg Then you'll find out the hard way - when you experience hell that you create for yourself. Remember this - you will know in this year of 2012.

[Lleanlleawrg]

@slaveofmary3 Yeah okay. Sure. Whatever. Want to make a bet? If the armageddon happens before january 1st 2013, I will gladly deny god and be sent to this hell you think I'll be going to - but if you wake up on january 1st 2013 and find the world is still here, then you gotta kill yourself. I don't care how you do it. Slit your wrists, shoot yourself in the head, hang yourself, whatever.. Just get it done. Do we have a deal?

[slaveofmary3]

@Lleanlleawrg The way you deal with people shows some serious lack of love. Say this: "“God, if You are the Truth, reveal to me the sign of Your Love. Open my heart to receive guidance. If You exist, let me feel Your Love so I can see the Truth. Pray for me now." PS: the Great Warning is not the end of the world.

[Lleanlleawrg]

@slaveofmary3 You just told me that the world is coming to an end within a year and if I don't repent I'll be sorry (i.e i'll be roasting in hell) and it seems you think I'd deserve it too. So why exactly should I be showing you any love whatsoever? Your god is one that demands both fear and love. I'm not a slave, I'm not a masochist. You can be if you want to, but don't ask me to. Now: How about my suggestion? Are you of strong enough a conviction to accept?

[slaveofmary3]

@Lleanlleawrg Pay attention: no, the world is not coming to an end yet. Jesus is coming soon through an enlightenment of conscience. You won't roast permanently, but you will feel as if you are. You say that you will just do what you always do (deny God), and want me to do what I will never do (commit murder). Not for me - that is the atheist way. Are you of strong enough conviction to read a website and say some words already quoted? Or are you cowardly?

[Lleanlleawrg]

@slaveofmary3 No, the deal was this: If you're right about this second coming bullshit, I'll accept the consequences of my life's beliefs (or lack thereof, rather) and face whatever may come - but if you're wrong, and jesus doesn't come back, you should go see jesus.

And your line that murder is "the atheist way" .. well, that's just plain factually wrong. As for this website you want me to read, I'm not going to be convinced by it unless it first convinces me christianity is true

[slaveofmary3]

@Lleanlleawrg Murder - mass murder - *IS* the atheist way. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Lenin - all these atheistic murderers oppressed and killed tens of millions of people in the 20th century, far more than a mere Hitler, and more than all wars in the past of all human history combined. Atheists have no morals either, and lying is part of their belief system, just like yours. Well, you will find out the Truth - that's the real deal. All of mankind will see Jesus - and their Judgement.

[rytsign69]

@slaveofmary3 don't forget the Spanish Revolution, the French Revolution, The Cristeros War of Mexico, It's becoming a trend really, whenever an Atheist rise to power, The Entire world suffers.

[philomypillow]

Just want to use this comment, whereas in others I appeared in a more crtical tone, to commend you on all your videos that I've veiwed so far (pretty much all of them). Very intelligent and a pleasure listening to =)

[hahahfilms]

Great video. Do you, or anyone, know the name of the artwork at the 5:37 spot?

[adstanra]

This is not the point of apocalyptic literature.The forerunner to Jesus was John the Baptist who was walking around urgently calling people to repent, because the end of days was imminent. Jesus spoke that some of his people would not die before the son of man comes. This was an apocalyptic age where people expected a catacysmic intervention by God to judge the world and overthrow the forces of evil.

[adstanra]

usu. the author would be given a glimpse of the otherword ,or the future and this literature is big during times of stress and uncertainty. It faded away as time went on and the end did not come to a cataclysmic end and the church gained in power.The problem remains and increases when people continue to try to predict things based upon "wars and rumours of wars" .It lends itself to the human inyterpretive mind, like all soothsayers.

[cupanther56]

Father, can you do a critique on political pundits, especially those like Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck, who seem to just pander to the masses? Thank you and God bless.

[lizazoon]

Acocalyptic literature is nonsense.

[TradtionalCatholic]

Look up this channel on youtube for info on the Catholic Church.

mhfm1

[braddyboy82]

You mention "apocalyptic literature."

I am a fan of this style of literature ('The Road', 'Alas Babylon', 'On The Beach', etc.). For me, these books are about survival, and guiding your life with a new compass, one without the distractions and comforts of modern life. About finding yourself in an isolating environment.

The word "apocalypse," to the average person, means the collapse of civilization (at the very least.)

And with this scary economy... people just want to feel they'll be OK...

[PhoenixLament87]

Precisely! Thank you Father. I was in a coffee shop recently, reading Michael O'Brien's Father Elijah: an Apocalypse. A bright young man sitting nearby read this title and asked his mother what the word "apocalypse" meant. She answered, "a huge war or some kind of mass destruction". Though I didn't contradict her, I wanted to say, "No no no, you have it all wrong! It's a REVALATION!"

[ProdigalSonship]

What seems very clear is the more Fr Barron chooses to make videos on the nature of Apocalyptic Literature or on the Book of Revelation, the more he will attract the Fundamentalists, Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses to investigate the beliefs of the Apostolic Churches on these subjects. Surely, that would not be a bad thing. Kudos to you Father Barron for helping to make sense of a very confusing genre.

[Toribus]

Thanks for another superb video, Fr Barron and team. I especially liked the wonderful art which you included. Could you tell us the names of the pieces, and their respective artists?

[1r1shCath0l1c]

Fr. Barron, What do you think of Bishop N.T. Wright's argument that the natural world will not be destroyed, but rather remade in a new way? He talks about it a bit here:

h t t p : / / w w w . y o u t u b e . c o m / w a t c h ? v = V 1 R s g K Q Y n T Q

(make sure to delete the spaces).

Peace and Blessings,

Irish Catholic

[wordonfirevideo]

@1r1shCath0l1c I like it. I'm a big fan of N.T. Wright.

[1r1shCath0l1c]

As am I! :)

[Lioobayoyo]

@1r1shCath0l1c

hi 1r1,

just FYI, to give links to videos on youtube, just copy the /watch?v=rrOQ3YKSEFQ part.

Doing this, the youtube spam filter won't stop the comment, and it will be easier for potential readers to copy and paste it on the internet adress bar, rather than deleting each space.

[1r1shCath0l1c]

@Lioobayoyo Thanks for letting me know -- I will do that from now on! :) God Bless

[havaneezer]

It took me 3 viewings to see the whole thing, but it was interesting as usual.

[Liracomx]

Seems some people are missing the point by focusing too much on the science and not on the message.

Looking at the finger instead of where it's pointing to.

Great video, Fr. Baron. Didn't know the relationship between the word "apocalypse" and "revelation".

[sterlingrose33]

Brilliant stuff, Father. Keep the videos coming. I learn so much from your videos.

[anXVI]

You make amazing videos. They are very insightful and intelligent.

[Islam4noone]

Fr. Please offer a literature course online. I think you are brilliant. God bless you abundantly.

[TKDLime88]

Great insights Father! You're right, we need not be afraid. Apocalypse is good news not bad. It's a good message to hear.

w w w . direction for our times . com

[Hulkster81]

Great video! Fr, just wanting to send you a word of encouragement. Your videos are great and I read your debates with various people on these youtube videos and learn much from them. Keep up the good work and know I will keep passing along the good word about Word on Fire!

[n00ffensebut]

I am aware that the Catholic Church really latched onto "The Big Crunch" cosmological hypothesis. It was actually disproved almost ten years ago by this study:

h t t p : / /cdsweb .cern. ch /record /436210 /files /0004404. pdf

Next, you will say that humans are all 99.9% genetically the same.

[Entropy3ko]

@n00ffensebut This reaseach hints that the universe is a "flat universe" ie it has a euclidean geometry

The question if there will be a Big Crunch or not is still very mnuch open. This paper does not solve the question in any way!

The Church, more over, does not advocate any of the different cosmological models on the 'end of the universe' (really it does not matter theologically!)

Before you post you should study a little physics and also what the Church actually says and what not.

[n00ffensebut]

If a flat universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, per Reiss et al in 1998, then dark energy is overcoming gravity, resulting in permanent expansion, which NASA calls the consensus.

[Entropy3ko]

Scientists are still debating a lot about these matters.

After all Einstein's theory of relativity muight even be (partially) wrong (I do not say it is,as in so far it has never been disproven. To note there there are a few valid competitors in the theory of gravitation) so our cosmological models might also be wrong.

[n00ffensebut]

I do recall reading that the Catholic Church saw the prospect of a "Big Crunch" favorably. Saint Aquinas held that the universe is contingent on God, not self-sustaining. So, what would be God's purpose in maintaining a lifeless universe? Tipler's Final Anthropic Principle stated a moral postulate that life will live as long as the universe. Lutheran theologian Pannenberg called it "a remarkable convergence with Christian theology."

[Entropy3ko]

Aquinas is a great theologian and a major contributor in Catholic theology, but not everything he said is euqlly accepted.

The Church believes that God will ' renew the heavens and earth' ... I think it makes little difference how the unverse ' dies' from that prospective.

I fancy more the ' heat death' of the universe myself, actually, and dislike the Big Crunch

[niinja2]

the link is faulty or something , can you link it again

what cosmological hypothesis was disproved , the fine tuning argument?

[n00ffensebut]

The link works if you take out all of the spaces. YouTube censors comments with links unless one hides them with spaces.

[niinja2]

that explains why i cant post half of my comments , nice trick

[niinja2]

can you sum it up , what is exactly disproved

[n00ffensebut]

The big bang left microwave radiation. The Boomerang experiment mapped this and studied temperature variations to determine the universe's total energy density and its shape. Universe shape refers to the possibility that it would be curved into a mysterious fourth dimension. This curvature distorts the path of light, affecting the maximum collapse of matter and radiation around regions of high density.

[n00ffensebut]

Continued:

This study found that this maximum corresponds to a universe without curvature, with 10% uncertainty. We now know that the universe is flat with only 2% uncertainty. Entropy3ko is misleading you to call that a "hint."

Here is an old review article that explains some of that:

h t t p : / /arxiv. org /PS_cache /astro-ph /pdf /9906 /9906463v4. pdf

[n00ffensebut]

I would like to mention how relieved I was to learn that the universe is flat with no ultimate crunch. There had been a popular hypothesis that a crunch would precede another Big Bang, with the same universe reiterating endlessly. That might have meant that those unfortunate enough to live a short tortured existence (the unborn?) would experience unending hell. A future, lifeless universe is comforting by comparison.

[Entropy3ko]

The |Big Crunch is still believed by some scientists... I think Suskind (who is an atheist, btw) favors the Big Crunch.

[HammerofHeretics]

I don't think the Catholic Church ever latched on to any cosmological hypothesis regarding the end of the world. The Big Bang theory was advanced by a Jesuit scientist, and although some may have believed The Big Crunch was its natural counterpart, I'm quite certain the "Church" has no official position on this matter just as it has no official position on evolution other than that faith must not conflict with reason in discerning the truth of the matter.

[n00ffensebut]

Pope Pius XII essentially endorsed the Big Bang in 1951 as confirmation of the "contingency of the universe" and called evolution a "serious hypothesis." I do recall reading that some in the Church considered the Big Crunch an added bonus to accepting the Big Bang. Pope John Paul II elevated evolution to "more than just a hypothesis."

I did not mean to suggest these were "infallible" Church positions, but I suspect that such unofficial notions inform its paradigms, as Father Barron demonstrated.

[HammerofHeretics]

Yes, the Catholic Church is open to any scientific theory that is supported by good empirical evidence, but loathes speculating conclusively on just about everything but Christian dogmas and doctrines. Oddly that makes them more capable of considering scientific evidence than people in the scientific community who become invested in one theory or another.

[Nemesis000000]

Fascinating

[iSATANRIKUZUSU]

I like your etymologies, Father. I find that I'm able to better appreciate the meaning of "apocalypse" and "revelation." Christ is the image (ikon) of the invisible God.

[AbdielAbiram]

Excellent video

[Evidentz07]

Nice video Father. I'm surprised you haven't done a video on 'The Book of Eli'. It's an interesting post-apocalyptic film with lots of spiritual symbolism.

[wordonfirevideo]

It's coming!