I would have more respect for christians if they would just admit..........that Christians have a BELIEF not a FACT... learn The difference between fact and opinion
The guy arguing in favor of the resurrection is blatantly lying. He cherry picks a few resurrection myths that are very easy to argue came after Jesus, and completely ignores dozens of resurrection myths that came well before. He even goes so far as to say that Osiris wasn't resurrected, which is completely false. It's easy to win an argument if you ignore any data contrary to your position and completely fabricate points to support it.
@cujagu well, it is up to the guy who believes there were pre christian resurrection stories (Tim) to mention this. Tim provides no evidence.. It is up to Tim to provide data for his position (if any exists)..
@goldyaaron I agree, Tim definitely did a horrible job asserting his position, there are random kids on the internet that could do a better job. Tim failed to show any of the evidence for his beliefs (it does exist) and he failed to call out the other guy when he was blatantly lying.
i can think of over 1200 scientists that would say there is no evidence for god..so y this guys logic there is no god?why do christians always want evidence but never want to hold there beliefs up to the same scrutiny?
What do scientists have to say on an issue of metaphysics? Of course there is no scientific evidence for God; science can only measure the empirical. That's like trying to weigh a chicken with a yardstick and concluding that the chicken has no weight. You're using the wrong tool.
Look at philosophy for evidence of God, not science. Specifically look into ontology and cosmology as good starting points.
@Kiithknight ya kinda like lee's madgic coin he has yet to show anyone ..but do tell if science can't know about "metaphysics" cosmology is science BTW maybe you should look into it...don't start by going "there is a god now what facts suppport that then ignore anything else.but again non of these fields lends any credence to the "christian god"In fact the opposite is true.try using your brain right now you'er using the wrong tool
You're thinking of astronomy, not cosmology. Cosmology uses astronomy, but cosmology is not astronomy. Science can't answer questions of why or purpose or questions of being. It can only explain what, how, and when.
Cosmological, ontological, moral, fine-tuning, etc arguments are evidence for God. Don't start by going, "There is no god no what facts support that and ignore anything else."
@Kiithknight no history does not must be why we don't hear anything about jesus till 400 years after the fact .Science can't answer questions of why or purpose or questions of being,nor can GAWD DONE IT all that does is beg more questions.you should stop trying to type with your head up your ass.
You've made it quite clear that you've never studied Christianity nor philosophy. The only one starting with a presupposition here is you. I'm saying to go study philosophy (specifically cosmology and ontology) to see if arguments for God's existence holds. Then go study history to see if Christianity holds.
All you do by pummeling scarecrows is to make yourself look loony. Please open your eyes and mind to actual study. Blind faith is never a good characteristic to have.
@alltiedup217 Oh man, you are such a great example of why atheists who are dumb shouldn't argue with Christians. What are you talking about with your "400 years after the fact" bit? Do you actually know anything about early church history and the several thousand mentions of Jesus within 400 years of his death?
@cujagu really other than christian that we all know could not and still can't make up there mind about the myth they try to force on everyone who mentions him?even christian sources don't talk about him until 150 years after the fact.The bible is even confused about the events.Lets not forget about stroble himself and his bullshit coin for proof of jesus that turned out to be fake.After he was told it was fake he still uses it for proof ,total moron him and you.
@alltiedup217 You've mistaken me for somebody who believes Jesus rose from the dead. I don't believe he did. All I mean is that if you're going to argue, you should get your facts straight. You were hundreds of years off when you said 400 years, and any christian would be able to point that out and make you look dumb. We're on the same side, I just wanted to make sure you got your facts straight, sorry I called you dumb, that was rude of me.
@cujagu 400 years they back date him to around 150 but if you look at the amount of fakes that were around the first mention of the jesus that is talked about today is not untill around 400 years after his death.any mention before 400 years is a totally diferent kind of jesus.Any of the secular historians of the day make no mention of him at all.The First Council of Nicaea 325 ad is the first time they tried to get a consensus about jesus.so ya about 400 years
@alltiedup217 There are dozens of non christian historians that make mentions of Jesus well within 400 years of his life. I agree that there is some conflicting information about a lot of the details and I think you can definitely argue that the historical Jesus is vastly different from the one most christians worship. But just because they had the first council of Nicaea around 325 doesn't mean that's the first time he was mentioned.
@alltiedup217 Josephus, Lucian, the Babylonian Talmud, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Seutonius, and Velleius Paterculus all mention Jesus and all came well before your 400 year time limit. I think the best you could argue is that there are no mentions of Jesus until a few decades after his death, which is still a significant amount of time. I'm not disputing your idea, just your time frame.
@cujagu josephus is an acknowledged forgery the talmud talk about 3 different guys none that are jesus.Pliny makes no mention of "Jesus of Nazareth," nor does he refer to any event in his purported life.Tacitus passage about what some think could be jesus. has no mention in any known text prior to the 15th century. Suetonius refers to "Christiani," whom he calls "a race of men of a new and villainous, but not about jesus.again they attribute these things to jesus but way after the fact.
@alltiedup217 One mention of Jesus in Josephus is an acknowledged forgery and the other mention of him is accepted to be genuine. Pliny may not mention 'jesus of nazareth' but he does mention Christ. Tacitus specifically mentions christ and the crucifixion at the hands of pontius pilate. Suetonius actually does refer to christ. I'm not advocating jesus's divinity, but I do think he probably existed.
@cujagu tacitus for one,he refers to Pilate by the wrong title Pilate was a prefect,not a procurator.Secondly, he refers to Jesus by the religious title "Christos"Roman records would not have referred to Jesus by a Christian title,but by his given name.Suetonius The passage he wrote says that there was actually someone named Chrestus at Rome at the time."Chrestus" is the correct Latin form of an actual Greek name, and is not a mispelling of Christus"= Christ. This rules out a reference to Jesus.
@cujagu the Testimonium Flavianium clearly a forgery and the later in Antiquities he is mentioned again and most secular historians think it is a later Christian insertion, like the Testimonium Flavianium , but of course much less blatantly so.You should read the book nailed by david fitzgerald.At least I think you should look into it more.
@alltiedup217 Some of those points are nitpicking, especially the pontius pilate one, and all of them are still being debated except the mention in the testimonium flavianum. It's an interesting topic, and I don't think we'll agree on it lol. Either way, we both agree that Jesus was not the person most christians seem to think he was and there is little to no valid evidence of any of the details of his life or ministry.
@cujagu here's something you would think they would all remember Jesus rise from the dead; he also had to ascend to heaven..nope Mark 16:14-19 - Jesus ascends while he and his disciples are seated at a table in or nearJerusalem ,Matthew 28:16-20 - Jesus’ ascension isn’t mentioned at all, but Matthew ends at a mountain in Galilee John - Nothing about Jesus’ ascension is mentioned Luke 24:50-51 - Jesus ascends outisde, after dinner, and at Bethany and on the same day as the resurrection FAIL
Sounds to me like resurrections were pretty much common place. What's so special about Jesus' supposed resurrection?
Trying to prove that ANYONE has ever risen from the dead seems to be an exercise in futility. How could anyone possibly ever prove that it actually took place? But that's the exact situation that christian apologists find themselves in. Good luck.
how can a man rise from the dead if he, apparently, never lived in the first place! Lets start by finding traces of that jesus guy somewhere and then we can move on to find if he was killed, and then, if he resurected.
@ErgoProxy12345 no atheist would say that Jesus never lived ,there was certainly a jewish guy who preached about the end of the world but there is no evidence that he 3 days after his death came back to life and even then this is no proof that he is God or the son of God
@distantkomakino there has been thousands of preaching jews in the last millenia and certainly some about the end of the world (we find bozos doing just that right now! like Harold Camping even if he's not a jew). It may have been tales, difformed accounts of events or whatever else and it may even be multiple guys mixed into 1. There are no extra biblical account of a jesus doing the things the bible claim he did. I think its likely there was no jesus at all. not certain but likely.
did Jesus rise from the dead? no because he never died on the cross in the first place... muslims believe he was a mighty messenger of God just like noah, abraham and moses etc who was born from the virgin mary. He is not the son of God or the son of man but the son of mary only and a servant of almighty God.
Weather this skeptic was able to make his claims; Philosophy of Christian faith not only is immoral but unethic on behalf of God and irrational. If you claim for God that so loved the world that He gave His only son, then how is God being just by sacrificing a sinless being for the sinners who didnt care moreover killed him?! If God is all powerfull then why do you claim God to be bound by His own law when it was Adam that disobeyed. So God cannt forgive him? Didnt God know Adam would disobey?!!
@bewareofdajjal God demands justice for sin,and God came as Jesus to take the punishment Him self for the sins of His people,people in Hell aren't forgiven,it was only Jesus dying for all the believers only.He died for all men which simple means Jews,Gentiles,fat,skinny,rich,poor ect.,not all men head for head.Jesus came and lead a sinless life,He allowed that only one without sin could die for others and this is how He chose to do it.
John 3:5 makes it clear that its impossible to enter into the Kingdom of God without being born of water and of the Spirit. To learn exactly what this means, please check out the scribd website that is listed on my channel.
Goodness? I don't WANT to be like God..I have read enough of the bible to understand he is a jealous, vengeful, wrathful asshole who sometimes kills, sometimes enjoys sacrifice and he creates billions of people who he sends to hell UNLESS they go through a special loophole he created. Most people who have been born and died painfully on this planet throughout history have been small children and babies. Why does god hate unborn babies and children so much? I am glad there is SO little evidence.
Dionysus was worshiped over a thousand years BEFORE Jesus showed up and who was born of a mortal woman and a God father etc. I think the point is that Christian mythology borrows elements from many of its precursors. Obviously the story is slightly different so as to differentiate itself and its stories FROM earlier Pagan groups and religions. If they would have just copied the same story, people would have caught on. Many post-Christian religions borrow elements much like Christianity did.
Dionysus was grapes and wine god ( not a real historical figuer)
I do not see any thing that links to Yashouah (jesus).
Jesus lived on earth, and his effect on human soul, hearts and spirits is incomparable with anything God in Flesh who was crucified , by Romans ( real story) die and resurrected for deep spirtual idea.
That you can not be sane and then assume anything from Jesus was palagerized from Dionysus.
@balamanti2 I didn't say they were identical. Like I said, born of a mortal woman and a "
god father". Even if Christianity and Judaism were COMPLETELY original and borrowed nothing from anything else, it still would have NOTHING to do with the stories of resurrections, creation of the world etc. being true. I don't doubt Jesus was a real person put to death for being a Roman annoyance...but that he was anything beyond just a deluded rabbi is silly. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are nonsense.
@balamanti2 Look below, I said that CHRISTIANITY borrows ELEMENTS from its precursors...many of Jesus' teachings are common sense and were already basic parts of societies far away from the middle east. I may not know everything about Christianity however I know more than 90% of the Christians I meet....which is REALLY sad. If being a bigot means that I dislike lies and half truths which people tell themselves to feel better and others to scare them...then I guess thats what I am.
@balamanti2 I wasn't referring to Europe.that is your inference. Constantine got rid of the discrimination because it became HIS religion. Buddhism as just ONE example is older than Christianity and has had a MUCH MORE peaceful history than the war and bloodshed of Christianity. Greeks had infanticide but then again the Bible advocates TONS of reasons to kill friends and family members. I have never killed anyone but millions of Christians have...common sense tells me I shouldn't.
@balamanti2 Constantine spent plenty of time warring against others like many emperors did and he wanted his new religion AND the popular pagan ones as well..because he was still very much into pagan symbolism and traditions BUT also was a Christian...so obviously he wants religious pluralism...he HIMSELF was a pluralist! That's not charity, that's self interest. Plus, years after converting to Christianity, he had his son and wife killed so he sure sounds tolerant to me. lol.
@balamanti2 Constantine was a pagan most of his life AND even wore pagan symbols around his neck and on things he had built...nearly up until his death. He did become a self admitted Christian but not only did he not do away with pagan things, he still had much of them around him. Why did he convert? I assume that after hearing a lot of Christian popular underground stories he got a bit paranoid/scared/deluded and figured he ought to hedge his bet..but keep pagan stuff around just in case.
No ! Constantine converted to Christianity because he was preached by his mother. His Mother converted to Christianity on the hand of two girls who were sentenced to be executed because they were christians .
And she was so much touched and moved by their faith...and became a devout christian, and Constantine was so much moved and inspiured by his mother changing life...that he found truth in her actions and life, what she said to him
@balamanti2 Wow..what a truly moving story about Constantine's mother. After hearing this story, I totally want to convert too! He must have been so moved by his Christian faith that he became a very moral person....well again, except for killing his wife and son years AFTER converting to Christianity but hey...those are only small details. lol. I don't want to be like God..I have read enough of the bible to understand he is a jealous
Jealous in aramaic language is : Gayour, and this verb comes from being "immersed". and it is used to indicate love - fatherly love, this objection u & other have shows bit of ignorance.
the verb Ghayoor, is used of the father who is immesed to love and protect his Children, the aramaic language has no 100% equivalent in english
@balamanti2 I don't care WHAT the translation of Jealous is...I am sure you are referencing the "I am a jealous God" but thats not what I am even talking about. I am talking about the way he ACTS...he acts jealously on a regular basis...much like a petulant child.
Constantine's Anti-Pagan stance is well documented. he was tolerant to pagans but :
1- refused to take part in a pagan procession offended the Romanshe pagan gods 2- pagan legends did not survive much more than a few years on Constantine's coinage & they disappeared so quickly
3- forbade overzealous Christians to disturb the pagan cult. He nevertheless destroyed three famous temples, at Aegae in Cilicia and at Apheca and Heliopolis in Phoenicia,
@balamanti2 I'm glad you believe all of this but I LOVE the fact that Christianity steals its backstory from the Jews and runs with it...a large portion of it written by that deluded idiot Paul. The character of Jesus probably had some great stuff to say but what you read in the Bible is re-translated stories by mostly non-eyewitnesses in a backward goat hearding culture 2,000 years ago. It's sad, its appalling how gullible and dense you can be. How do you say gullible in Aramaic?
@balamanti2 That's correct..the first Christians/Jesus were Jews. If the God of the OT and NT weren't so different I would concede that its just a continuation of nonsense..albeit quite a bit more humane and reasonable. But so many things change and "no longer count" that it really is robbing the old stories for the backstory you need and then changing the law/commandments where you want change. Its an unfortunate thing that the early church had to include the OT...its a true piece of shit.
@balamanti2 It could be the case but I have never heard that Constantine killed his son to stop him from committing crimes/because he commit crimes. Most scholars agree this was due to Constantine's jealousy due to an affair. But yeah your eye for an eye stance really aligns with the Old Testament so thats good. lol. Too just for me to understand? Maybe common sense is too much for you to understand and desert tribe tales of nonsense have to fill in for it?
I guess the Roman capital punishment should be ordered by the head of the state based on Crimes that deserve capital punishment.
So the blame should not be jewish culture but on the Roman culture, costantine was applying the law in Roman days, and if his Son commited a punishable crime he did not waver that to him. Maybe that is the case.
@balamanti2 Sure, I will even acquiesce and say that Constantine was doing Roman law...in this case it seems to be the same as Jewish law was in Leviticus....a punishment we have outgrown like so many other things IN THE TEETH OF religion. Then again, who even wrote Leviticus? Moses? Who was Moses? Its not like anyone has objective or actual data about the guy. All we have left is an author-less disgusting text which we would be better off without. Blind faith at its best.
@onemarktwoyou Leviticus is shit. The aroma of burnt sacrificial offerings pleases god? I won't list all the stuff because I guarantee you have heard it all (unlike most Christians who don't actually know WHAT the Bible contains..which is why you have this large population of people ignorant of things other than their favorite few pop culture tales of Jesus, lepers and Moses and the Red Sea.) Lemme guess, you have your own special interpretation like so many others as to circumvent reality?
Well if being a christian is ignorant,then I'm in!
This guy here is a prime example of majority of atheist! He is at best half educated on the subject.
Even I an ignorant christian knew his argument was not truthful, not saying he was lying. Just Uneducated on the subject. Atheist claim that they don't have a religious belief, most have taken up the alien god belief. Sorry I can't fall for that one personally. I don't blame you for being irritated at Christians, a few are a pain
@onemarktwoyou I was raised as a Christian and at that time I certainly was ignorant...I was told a lot of things and wasn't told many more. About 6 years ago I wanted to educate myself more (due to talking to people at work) and what I found was more than I ever could have imagined..found out about Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism etc. I have found that most Christians I meet or hear from are in the position I was in the past...not knowing much about their religion or Bible.
@onemarktwoyou And I find it a rare thing for an Atheist to believe in an "alien god" as you say. Most atheists are skeptics and are very skeptical of religious claims, faith healing, aliens, ufos, psychics, crystal powers etc. I hate to lump them all together but all base themselves on a person's story that you just have to believe...even though evidence is typically non existent or very very limited. Just wanted to clarify that.
Most atheist I have been running into do believe in aliens. Unlike you I wasn't raised in a christian home. Facts had been in the back of my head that I ignored. I found G-d by studies. I reached a point I guess I was done rebelling against authority. I could no longer deny a creator. I learned a long time ago not to trust any experts. After listening to debates on all the subjects of interests and watching people squirm on both sides I became informed enough to make my decision.
@onemarktwoyou You may be misinterpreting the atheists. If they say "Its possible there are aliens out there somewhere" that doesn't mean they "believe in aliens"...anymore than if someone says "Its possible there is a God somewhere out there"...that doesn't mean they are a christian. The same logic is used with God...nobody can prove God DOES NOT exist...same as nobody can prove ALIENS don't exist. In both cases, MOST atheists say that as of yet, nobody has provided convincing evidence.
@onemarktwoyou You or anyone doesn't have to "deny a creator" and I actually find it perfectly logical to be in the position to say that you think there must be some creator or god or something that sprang things into being...I have no problem with this AT ALL...its a deist position. But to go from a deist to a theist and from a theist to a Christian is quite illogical. Its like jumping from "there could be life on other planets" to saying "I talk to aliens and they tell me bedtime stories."
@balamanti2 Even if we say that Constantine never killed a single person, converted to Christianity, and then went around spreading love and joy and planting flowers and trees, it still says NOTHING AT ALL about the truth claims of the Bible. I think that Christianity has SCARED many people into doing good or not doing bad but it has also given plenty of people reasons to act worse to people. I personally know plenty of non-believer's who's families have ex-communicated them for example.
@balamanti2 The fear of hell and the unknown is the DRIVING FACTOR behind the majority of Christians I have met over the years and seems to drive the Christians who call into the talk shows I listen to and watch. I follow a number of broadcasts and shows and get to hear it all right from the horses mouth every week. Their thousands of voices are more proof than your one opinion.
Did your father not teach you right from wrong? Did he not punish you? G-d said there is a hell, Christians just don't want anyone to go to hell. That is the difference between islam. They believe to convert or kill, G-d said love thy neighbor.
RC church really isn't Christianity, to be excommunicated from them means you are in good company. Don't confuse the noble men class that ran the RC church from Christianity. They follow pagan teachings, that is why they used the sword.
I was watching a christian video when I noticed a rouge atheist on there attempting to ruin as many peoples days as possible. He believed in aliens came down here and stacked giant blocks. He was ruthless! I destroyed every revisionist historical misconception he had. Yet he persisted. He attacked me on the video and on comments on my channel. If you want to read them,I left some of his statements there on my channel. I usually get along with atheist, but he had a problem!
@onemarktwoyou I honestly doubt he was an atheist. If he was talking about aliens stacking giant blocks or something I assume he is just an argumentative person trying to get a rise out of YouTube viewers. If you want videos of actual skeptics and atheists with hundreds of thousands of views/viewers on YouTube, The Atheist Experience is going to give you ACTUAL atheists and skeptics which mirror the beliefs of the majority.
@onemarktwoyou My dad taught me many things...but much of it came naturally. My dad did punish me but no matter what I did, he never threatened to lock me in the basement and torture me forever and ever...which is effectively what Christians say god does. God said there is a hell? No, ancient people CLAIM that the creator of the universe told them something. "God" said love thy neighbor....but he also told us plenty of times when its fine to kill our neighbors and family members too.
I was comparing your father with the Father. They both ask for obedience.
I see now! You grew away from your faith because your secular values contradicted with your faith.
I had a problem with that too, until I read the old testament. I was lucky enough to be old enough to read it in context. What I thought was contradictions I realize were not. I had listened to people who quoted the bible out of context. Age gave me wisdom, and living in the world gave me understanding of why.
@onemarktwoyou Yes and no. I was unfamiliar with much of the Bible and really only read it as an adult....I didn't grow away from my faith because I never really had one..I was raised in a Christian household but deep inside I figured it was people's interpretation...which as an adult I think it is even more than as a child. And yes, secular values often contradict Christianity, Islam and Judiam.
@onemarktwoyou Your post is nothing I haven't read before."Oh you are reading it out of context". Sorry, I have heard every excuse under the sun to try and make up for the bullshit and which I assume is why so many christians end up having to say, "Well that was the old days and doesn't count, so lets talk about Jesus". Its fine to say that but I dare say its particularly honest. Do your religion and your faith a great service and say its FAITH. You believe in Paul's testimony..but its not fact.
If Christians say the old testament doesn't count, then they commit apostasy. I have heard some self claimed Christians say that and its bull! Two reasons. First we are not Hebrew. Second the new covenant doesn't exclude the "laws". Jesus did not change any laws or conduct.
Oh' and reading out of context is usually what is done. I had fallen for most likely intentional miss quoting of the bible before. My atheistic to christian change took years, I wasn't looking to change.
@onemarktwoyou I wasn't looking to change my "religious status" either but it happened. My MAIN position is that there is no reason to think that the all the OT and NT religious texts we have are exact dialogues and recording of exactly what went on and what was said...certainly not verbatim. And without it being exact and inerrant, it falls apart and deflates like a football which has lost its stitching. That's where you make a giant leap and so does every literal religious believer.
Excellent point. I actually used this argument myself while I was rejecting it. The trouble I encountered was when I asked does it at least represent the intent? I first approached the bible as an old law book. Meant to keep people inline. I guess we went completely off topic of this video. I think my point was that atheist have just as much trouble finding someone competent as a christian does. I can't believe this guy was on TV as an expert.
@balamanti2 Hey no society is perfect but Christianity takes the cake on killing...then again it stems from a Bible which, again, gives plenty of times that you SHOULD kill friend, family or stranger...of course this is when God himself isn't busy killing people. lol. I live in America and the most hateful and intolerant people are "generally" the deeply religious southerners...sure hasn't helped them. Most research polls show people in jail and prison believe in God.
Christianity is based on Love thy enemy: No on killing,
there is a good reason to love your enemy in xtianity, it is if u want realized by the redefinition of life, death, purpose of life & nature of God which explains in a way why we know goodness and have moral judgement.
in any existential or natural philosophy there ain't any objective bases for objective morality.
The same xtian philosophy set forth the tsunami of change in Human rights & became the pinnacle role model
@balamanti2 I don't think there is absolutely objective morality. It isn't needed. It IS subjective though MOST humans agree on certain tenants which are quite universal. The Bible ATTEMPTS to explain things and it was fine a couple thousand years ago.But the microscope, the telescope and fossils have given us more insight in the last 100 years alone than deluded bronze age peasants and their pop culture stories. There is plenty of good in many religions along with a lot of misapprehension.
@balamanti2 I will give you the last word but I will have to bow out now. You can enjoy your bronze age superstitious goat herding middle eastern oral tradition stories all you want. I will, again, enjoy the wonders of the telescope, microscope, fossils, DNA, and all of the pre-human things we have yet to find but are exciting enough. And I will continue to do my charity work and never kill or harm anyone. And unlike many, I don't need the threat of hell or promise of eternity to do so.
@balamanti2@balamanti2 I'm sorry, but you're totally wrong I'm afraid. According to the Gospels, Jesus preached love and forgiveness, yet in the 2nd book of Thessalonians, "God's Word" clearly states that "in flaming fire, [ Christ will ] inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." Forget the sugar-coating. The loving message of Christianity is perfectly simple:
Mercy is not forever and ever, there is a grace period, and this is just very sane and logical.
there is a 2nd and 3rd and 4th chance but not forever open check to do sin.
and there is nothing wrong in it.
people are given parole , the role model is Jesus Christ, if you step on that pure blood , one time, two times, then you coe to realize the sin you are in that will be ok,
But step on a pure blood &disrespect 4ever then NO,
@balamanti2 What in the name of sanity are you talking about? You're making about as much sense as the bible itself. Like most believers you just make it all up as you go along.
@balamanti2 On the extremely slight off chance Jesus' words resembled what is written today, then yes, he was absolutely deluded. I will say that he did have some great stuff to say....as many philosophically-minded individuals have.
Jesus is real... and if you don't Belive in hell... you will when you get there.He is the only person who came back from the dead...he is our creator.always was and always will be....he is the greatest the alpha and the omega...and I sure can't wait to bow down and worship him in person forever.
@GodAndMePlus3 It's such a simple concept to grasp that the early Christains would be willing to suffer beatings, stonings, prison and execution for spreading something they KNOW TO BE FALSE. And without their efforts there would have been no reason whatsoever for Christianity to have had such a rapid initial growth. It's all based on that one central fact: the resurrection. Not even one church would exist today without that one historic event. Take care bro.
My question is...Did he raise himself? If he did, then he did not truly die ..& we are still lost in our sins!
If hell is punishment (ie torture) for our sins FOREVER, why didn't Jesus stay there forever? --to prove his case? The fact the Yhashua (Jesus) was divine, in this case, doesnt really "change" anything.
Via Christian doctrine, the REALITY of hell is FOREVER. So should be his sacrifice! Can't weisel out of that one!
Some fallen angel has his fingers in the pie of modern faith!
@onemarktwoyou I am an atheist and I have never hated anyone! I think you are a bit judgemental. Maybe you see anyone with a different philosophical viewpoint to you as hating you...
Listen to the arguments of this atheist again. He lacks the the true understanding of his false statements.
Yet he promotes a magazine on the subjects that he is so poorly qualified to speak on. I have debated atheists and found their arguments completely wrong. Example 1) King James was a gay that wrote the KJV bible. 2) Thomas Jefferson was an atheist and didn't believe the bible. The sources for these 2 falsities are well known, but doesn't stop them from being used! Thank you.
@onemarktwoyou - I've had one athiest tell me Dragons were in the bible. The level of education for athiests i've spokent to is appauling. A friend of mine told me He didn't believe in the Bible - all fairy tales. When asked how much of the Bible he knew, he stated he'd NEVER read any of it. His information was taken completely from heresay and completely out of context. And they call Chrisitan's uneducated!
I am not going to say there isn't intelligent atheist out there.I find the intelligent ones to be pleasant. Hitchens and Dawkins are arrogant and horribly over rated and they are the ones that hateful people flock to. They can clearly lose a debate and their followers claim it as a victory.
Then again there are apologists such as William Lane Craig that I wish they would keep their mouths shut. So in fairness I say our side has its problems too. Let G-d's will be done.
@onemarktwoyou - I'm not suggesting all atheists are stupid. The few that I gave spoke to have been horribly uneducated. A more accurate description would be willfully ignorant of the Bible's content. I've always been curious as to why some athiests seem so angry at the Bible. There appears to be a undercurrent of hatred towards the Bible. Considering that nearly every major successful country across the world deploys Christian values at the heart of it's society - i'm intregued at any hatred.
The hatred of the bible in the USA was largely caused by the fact it states such verses as Lev 20:13 "they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them". The bible goes on and states a moral code of conduct which isn't approved by the product of the 1960's free love movement(sex, drugs and rock-n-roll). The bible isn't very politically correct. Follow a time line-rejection of the bible(1950's-2010). Then plot it against poverty, disease, education. It is sad.
@onemarktwoyou It's just so hard to find any facts to check when looking into religion...that's why proper fact checking is impossible! Just a thought...
Plot church turn outs. Then plot the other factors against it. Beware that the SATs have been dumb down, so do not use them. Their are graphs that some people have done. Where they are I do not know.
Y axis 0-100% for church attendance. Can't use population because it varies though the years, so percentages will be best.
Then plot on the Y axis beside church attendance what ever you want to examine related to it.
Example of certain stats had showed that seniors graduating high school today was at the 8th grade level of the mid 1950s. But remember that the schools keeps changing the equivalency tests. So find numbers that can be trusted.
Why are people just quoting the bible blindly with no reason?
What point does this useless information serve?
This video was comparing myth to date.
The bible could state god is a flying monkey, or that god Invented dinosaurs to confuse man but it still means nothing in contrast to absence of proof.
No quote within it is going to help it or you make it's case.
NB strobels assertion that "virtually all scholars agree . . . ." etc in the first 20 seconds. That is just bollocks, jewish,muslim and secular scholars would not agree with that and strobel knows it, but lying for jesus doesn't seem to be a problem.
@boc1953 - How do you know that I don't know? The Christian faith is not based on blind faith. The Holy spirit - part of the trinity was left on the day of Penticost to help people to have a relationship with God. He is described as the comforter. He is where a real tangible relationship with God starts. You can always sincerely ask God for an "experience" with Him. Be aware though, this normally means dropping pre-conceived ideas and being willing to do things His way. :)
@kingfisher64 It's called faith because it's not knowledge! That's how I know you don't know. All religious faith is blind faith, otherwise it would be knowledge. The 'comforter' is no more than an invisible imaginary entity, otherwise you would be able to introduce him to me without me having to suspend my ideas (ie my critical rational thinking) and be willing to 'do things his way' :)
boc1953 - please don't be so concedending. It's not called proof - it's called faith. You can't disprove the existence of any part of the Trinity - if you believe you can then you have a "blind faith" in that, which is exactly what your're critising against. I have a faith, however it's based on previous life experiences, historial documentation and scientific research and choose to implement faith to fill in the gaps rather than skepticism.
@kingfisher64 I apologise if I seem condescending to you. That is not my intention. I can't disprove something which has not been proven but I can dismiss that which is postulated without evidence. I don't mean to be argumentative or offensive, I just genuinely don't understand how a rational person can continue to believe in bronze aged mythology! I'm sure you are not given to irrational beliefs in any other area of your life and I don't get why you make an exception with your religion.Respect.
@boc1953 - "Postulated without evidence". Every area of science is littered with postulation. That's how theory's are built. You will have belief system's in every area of your life that started via postulation. Does that mean you're believing in bronze aged mythology in those areas? I know quite a few atheists and the one thing they have in common is very limited knowledge on biblical history and research. What do you know in this area? Because the previous comment suggests very little.
@kingfisher64 Postulated to begin with but they only become theories if they and stand up to rigorous critical analysis. The kind of analysis that would destroy any religious postulation immediately! Comparing scientific theories with religious ideas is silly. They are not the same thing and are not arrived at in the same way at all! I don't have belief systems in my life that can't bear rational analysis. I have read some biblical history but not a huge amount. Karen Armstrong's History Of God?
@boc1953 - What non Holy Spirit filled people fail to understand is that when His Spirit comes into your life something changes inside. It's not a feeling, it's not a momentary thing it's a sense of absolute certainty that's very hard to explain. The good news is that anybody who is truly interested can find this. "If you seek me with all your're heart, you will find me". The problem is most scientific people can't get over the first barrier in having a little bit of faith in God.
@kingfisher64 You said "when His Spirit comes into your life something changes inside. It's not a feeling, it's not a momentary thing it's a sense of absolute certainty that's very hard to explain." This is text book delusion! Look it up and you will see! Just because you believe it with all your heart, doesn't make it true! Many people throughout history have had delusional beliefs. Just because they are as strong as true beliefs, doesn't make them true!
@boc1953 - I don't agree with you and don't believe you are qualified to judge other people on something you yourself havn't experienced. It would be nice to see non-believers seeking the answers for themselves rather than branding people deluded . It shows a element of arrogance and lack of respect to brand people you have not met - you certainatly havn't done or said anything which has converted me to your viewpoint - quite the opposite.
@kingfisher64 I am not judging you, rather I am trying to find out why you believe as you do. As a non believer, I can accept that some things will never be known to human beings before our tenure on this planet has run it's course. I don't need the answer to everything! And to me, trying to support an argument that says your particular god of choice is the answer is arrogant.And what of me? Am I to burn in eternal fire? Do I deserve that? That is lack of respect! I am not trying to convert you.
@boc1953 - "your particular God of choice is the answer is arrogant" - NO it's not - that's faith. There's no arrogance in saying that whatsover. It's my belief to which you have belittled on more than one occasion. . I think finally the real reason for you questioning Christians has come out. It's the eternal fire bit right? It's interesting you mention that as I have a huge problem with it which is why at the moment i'm trying to research it.
@kingfisher64 But what makes you believe that your faith is the right one? I am not trying to belittle your faith. The real reason for my questioning christians is that I REALLY want to know why they carry this belief! It is that simple! Have you been a believer since childhood? Is it belief through the loving indoctrination of your parents? I don't believe in the eternal fire because I don't believe in heaven or hell. I am as sure as I can be that neither of them exist.
@boc1953 - Carrying on from last comment. There are different beliefs when it comes down to judgement throughout the Christian church. I personally don't believe anybody deserves eternal punishment. We all do things wrong and have to face responsibility for that - which is where the Christian faith shines like no other, from a logical point of view - in terms of Jesus's purpose. If God accepted people at less than perfect would heaven/zion continue to be a perfect place? Sin cannot enter heaven.
@kingfisher64 Of course there are different beliefs on all things in christianity! That is one reason why I don't understand the faith! Anyone who disagrees with one christians view is 'not a real christian'! I mean, if you go by the bible, no western christian is going to heaven because they all disobey god's old testament law! As for the NT as a shining example? It's central doctrine of atonement is one of the most immoral concepts man has ever come up with! It is a disgrace!
@boc1953 - With respect you've misunderstood the premise of Christianity. The old testiment is what the Jews go by - which is based on good vs bad works to determine a person's destiny. They reject Jesus as the Messiah and therefore don't accept the NT. The Torah is the OT. References to hell (I believe there's 162 are spread out throughout the NT and OT). There is a lot of metaphorical analygies in the Bible. If a person takes everything quite literally - it appears contradictory.
@boc1953 - Carrying on from last comment. The people in old testiment time used to sacrifice "pure" (morally) animals (sheep) as a pardon for their sins or wrongs. The principal of Jesus is that he formed one third of a trinity (perfect in nature) and sacraficed himself for us so that we wouldn't have to try to attain that on our own - which is impossible. The idea that God judges people for rights and wrongs is the same across most faith's but Christianity says that if you accept Jesus come...
@boc1953 judgement day God will look into your heart and see that you have accepted his Son and therefore you are forgiven. Jesus says accept my present of forgiveness of Me - the work of the cross/calvary and carry on with your life - trying to do your best, you're forgiven. There are some horrible passages in the Bible, but the story of Jesus and God's forgiveness that comes with is the most beautiful and loving conecpt any perfect being could offer us. :)
@kingfisher64 I don't understand why blood sacrifice was necessary in order for forgiveness to be given. According to your faith, a rapist and murderer who kills a child of moslem parents and later repents on death row and gives his heart to jesus will go to heaven after he is executed. But his moslem victim will not get there because she worshipped the wrong god! Explain to me how that is the most beautiful and loving concept any perfect being could offer us. I really don't understand...
@boc1953 - The Bible stats that God is a "just and fair God". According to my faith God IS LOVE. Look at it from a very logical point of view would a just and fair God send a victim of a horrible crime to hell? He also states that a person will be judged according to their knowledge - which opens up a whole other line of questioning. Some Christians believe that all people will come to be forgiven by God at some point in time. God loves me and you unconditionally. :) No need to worry.
@kingfisher64 If I look at it from a logical point of view, I conclude that there is no god! That is what logic suggests to any thinking person. Some christians believe all people will be forgiven eventually, other christians believe sinners will burn in the lake of fire for ever! Christians believe a whole raft of things which are worlds apart from each other.
@boc1953 - Carrying on from previous comment. The basis of the Christian faith is that God wants to forgive us. However justice and fairness come hand in hand. In society today if somebody murders somebody else- we expect some form of punishment, that person isn't just excused if they are sorry. How can a sinful person enter a place without sin (God's presence/heaven) and it remain perfect/sinless? In short Jesus led a perfect life so me and you didn't have to - as we can't. Hope this helps.
@kingfisher64 God is not constrained by human rules. If he wants to forgive, he can. He doesn't have to have himself crucified in order to allow himself to forgive humanity the sins that he knew they would commit in the first place! If he didn't want us to sin, why did he make us so inquisitive? The logical answer is obvious...he didn't! He didn't create us at all because he doesn't exist! I can't say that definitively, but that is where all the evidence points!
@boc1953 - God lays down a challenge for people who wish to experience his presence "if you seek me with all your heart - you will find me". There are people who complain at the logical evidence of God's existence, but yet won't go out of their way or meet God half way - as in their heart they have already made up their own mind.
I would have more respect for christians if they would just admit..........that Christians have a BELIEF not a FACT... learn The difference between fact and opinion
heathsawyer 1 week ago
@heathsawyer IBELIEVE ITS AFACT YOUR GOING TO HELL
papagaryel1 1 day ago
And what kind of proof do u have for Jesus resuraction ? Gues what ,none
popatapataioo 1 week ago
The guy arguing in favor of the resurrection is blatantly lying. He cherry picks a few resurrection myths that are very easy to argue came after Jesus, and completely ignores dozens of resurrection myths that came well before. He even goes so far as to say that Osiris wasn't resurrected, which is completely false. It's easy to win an argument if you ignore any data contrary to your position and completely fabricate points to support it.
cujagu 3 weeks ago
@cujagu well, it is up to the guy who believes there were pre christian resurrection stories (Tim) to mention this. Tim provides no evidence.. It is up to Tim to provide data for his position (if any exists)..
goldyaaron 2 weeks ago
@goldyaaron I agree, Tim definitely did a horrible job asserting his position, there are random kids on the internet that could do a better job. Tim failed to show any of the evidence for his beliefs (it does exist) and he failed to call out the other guy when he was blatantly lying.
cujagu 2 weeks ago
moral of the story.... learn what your skeptical about.. dates, names etc before you get humiliated on t.v lol
6gunwalker 1 month ago
i can think of over 1200 scientists that would say there is no evidence for god..so y this guys logic there is no god?why do christians always want evidence but never want to hold there beliefs up to the same scrutiny?
alltiedup217 1 month ago
@alltiedup217
"...1200 scientists...no evidence for god"
What do scientists have to say on an issue of metaphysics? Of course there is no scientific evidence for God; science can only measure the empirical. That's like trying to weigh a chicken with a yardstick and concluding that the chicken has no weight. You're using the wrong tool.
Look at philosophy for evidence of God, not science. Specifically look into ontology and cosmology as good starting points.
Kiithknight 1 month ago
@Kiithknight ya kinda like lee's madgic coin he has yet to show anyone ..but do tell if science can't know about "metaphysics" cosmology is science BTW maybe you should look into it...don't start by going "there is a god now what facts suppport that then ignore anything else.but again non of these fields lends any credence to the "christian god"In fact the opposite is true.try using your brain right now you'er using the wrong tool
alltiedup217 1 month ago
@alltiedup217
You're thinking of astronomy, not cosmology. Cosmology uses astronomy, but cosmology is not astronomy. Science can't answer questions of why or purpose or questions of being. It can only explain what, how, and when.
Cosmological, ontological, moral, fine-tuning, etc arguments are evidence for God. Don't start by going, "There is no god no what facts support that and ignore anything else."
History lends evidence to Christianity.
You should stop trying to type with your face.
Kiithknight 1 month ago
@Kiithknight no history does not must be why we don't hear anything about jesus till 400 years after the fact .Science can't answer questions of why or purpose or questions of being,nor can GAWD DONE IT all that does is beg more questions.you should stop trying to type with your head up your ass.
alltiedup217 1 month ago
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Kiithknight 1 month ago
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@alltiedup217
You've made it quite clear that you've never studied Christianity nor philosophy. The only one starting with a presupposition here is you. I'm saying to go study philosophy (specifically cosmology and ontology) to see if arguments for God's existence holds. Then go study history to see if Christianity holds.
All you do by pummeling scarecrows is to make yourself look loony. Please open your eyes and mind to actual study. Blind faith is never a good characteristic to have.
Kiithknight 1 month ago
@alltiedup217 Oh man, you are such a great example of why atheists who are dumb shouldn't argue with Christians. What are you talking about with your "400 years after the fact" bit? Do you actually know anything about early church history and the several thousand mentions of Jesus within 400 years of his death?
cujagu 3 weeks ago
@cujagu really other than christian that we all know could not and still can't make up there mind about the myth they try to force on everyone who mentions him?even christian sources don't talk about him until 150 years after the fact.The bible is even confused about the events.Lets not forget about stroble himself and his bullshit coin for proof of jesus that turned out to be fake.After he was told it was fake he still uses it for proof ,total moron him and you.
alltiedup217 3 weeks ago
@alltiedup217 You've mistaken me for somebody who believes Jesus rose from the dead. I don't believe he did. All I mean is that if you're going to argue, you should get your facts straight. You were hundreds of years off when you said 400 years, and any christian would be able to point that out and make you look dumb. We're on the same side, I just wanted to make sure you got your facts straight, sorry I called you dumb, that was rude of me.
cujagu 3 weeks ago
@cujagu 400 years they back date him to around 150 but if you look at the amount of fakes that were around the first mention of the jesus that is talked about today is not untill around 400 years after his death.any mention before 400 years is a totally diferent kind of jesus.Any of the secular historians of the day make no mention of him at all.The First Council of Nicaea 325 ad is the first time they tried to get a consensus about jesus.so ya about 400 years
alltiedup217 3 weeks ago
@alltiedup217 There are dozens of non christian historians that make mentions of Jesus well within 400 years of his life. I agree that there is some conflicting information about a lot of the details and I think you can definitely argue that the historical Jesus is vastly different from the one most christians worship. But just because they had the first council of Nicaea around 325 doesn't mean that's the first time he was mentioned.
cujagu 3 weeks ago
@cujagu name them?
alltiedup217 3 weeks ago
@alltiedup217 Josephus, Lucian, the Babylonian Talmud, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Seutonius, and Velleius Paterculus all mention Jesus and all came well before your 400 year time limit. I think the best you could argue is that there are no mentions of Jesus until a few decades after his death, which is still a significant amount of time. I'm not disputing your idea, just your time frame.
cujagu 3 weeks ago
@cujagu josephus is an acknowledged forgery the talmud talk about 3 different guys none that are jesus.Pliny makes no mention of "Jesus of Nazareth," nor does he refer to any event in his purported life.Tacitus passage about what some think could be jesus. has no mention in any known text prior to the 15th century. Suetonius refers to "Christiani," whom he calls "a race of men of a new and villainous, but not about jesus.again they attribute these things to jesus but way after the fact.
alltiedup217 3 weeks ago
@alltiedup217 One mention of Jesus in Josephus is an acknowledged forgery and the other mention of him is accepted to be genuine. Pliny may not mention 'jesus of nazareth' but he does mention Christ. Tacitus specifically mentions christ and the crucifixion at the hands of pontius pilate. Suetonius actually does refer to christ. I'm not advocating jesus's divinity, but I do think he probably existed.
cujagu 3 weeks ago
@cujagu tacitus for one,he refers to Pilate by the wrong title Pilate was a prefect,not a procurator.Secondly, he refers to Jesus by the religious title "Christos"Roman records would not have referred to Jesus by a Christian title,but by his given name.Suetonius The passage he wrote says that there was actually someone named Chrestus at Rome at the time."Chrestus" is the correct Latin form of an actual Greek name, and is not a mispelling of Christus"= Christ. This rules out a reference to Jesus.
alltiedup217 3 weeks ago
@cujagu the Testimonium Flavianium clearly a forgery and the later in Antiquities he is mentioned again and most secular historians think it is a later Christian insertion, like the Testimonium Flavianium , but of course much less blatantly so.You should read the book nailed by david fitzgerald.At least I think you should look into it more.
alltiedup217 3 weeks ago
@alltiedup217 Some of those points are nitpicking, especially the pontius pilate one, and all of them are still being debated except the mention in the testimonium flavianum. It's an interesting topic, and I don't think we'll agree on it lol. Either way, we both agree that Jesus was not the person most christians seem to think he was and there is little to no valid evidence of any of the details of his life or ministry.
cujagu 3 weeks ago
@cujagu here's something you would think they would all remember Jesus rise from the dead; he also had to ascend to heaven..nope Mark 16:14-19 - Jesus ascends while he and his disciples are seated at a table in or nearJerusalem ,Matthew 28:16-20 - Jesus’ ascension isn’t mentioned at all, but Matthew ends at a mountain in Galilee John - Nothing about Jesus’ ascension is mentioned Luke 24:50-51 - Jesus ascends outisde, after dinner, and at Bethany and on the same day as the resurrection FAIL
alltiedup217 3 weeks ago
There is no way to prove the story of Jesus rising . You can choose to believe it or to not believe it. There is no video or pictures!
harpo103 1 month ago
4:43 he starts to think and be dumb ansd dosn't know what to say
jonyizbak 1 month ago
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Sounds to me like resurrections were pretty much common place. What's so special about Jesus' supposed resurrection?
Trying to prove that ANYONE has ever risen from the dead seems to be an exercise in futility. How could anyone possibly ever prove that it actually took place? But that's the exact situation that christian apologists find themselves in. Good luck.
MrKeenoRossi 1 month ago
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MrKeenoRossi 1 month ago
how can a man rise from the dead if he, apparently, never lived in the first place! Lets start by finding traces of that jesus guy somewhere and then we can move on to find if he was killed, and then, if he resurected.
ErgoProxy12345 1 month ago
@ErgoProxy12345 no atheist would say that Jesus never lived ,there was certainly a jewish guy who preached about the end of the world but there is no evidence that he 3 days after his death came back to life and even then this is no proof that he is God or the son of God
distantkomakino 1 month ago
@distantkomakino there has been thousands of preaching jews in the last millenia and certainly some about the end of the world (we find bozos doing just that right now! like Harold Camping even if he's not a jew). It may have been tales, difformed accounts of events or whatever else and it may even be multiple guys mixed into 1. There are no extra biblical account of a jesus doing the things the bible claim he did. I think its likely there was no jesus at all. not certain but likely.
ErgoProxy12345 1 month ago
did Jesus rise from the dead? no because he never died on the cross in the first place... muslims believe he was a mighty messenger of God just like noah, abraham and moses etc who was born from the virgin mary. He is not the son of God or the son of man but the son of mary only and a servant of almighty God.
8casm 1 month ago
I dont get the christian argument at all, of trying to prove Jesus rose from the dead, because they are forgetting about John 5:30,
pantherlake2002 2 months ago
Weather this skeptic was able to make his claims; Philosophy of Christian faith not only is immoral but unethic on behalf of God and irrational. If you claim for God that so loved the world that He gave His only son, then how is God being just by sacrificing a sinless being for the sinners who didnt care moreover killed him?! If God is all powerfull then why do you claim God to be bound by His own law when it was Adam that disobeyed. So God cannt forgive him? Didnt God know Adam would disobey?!!
bewareofdajjal 2 months ago
@bewareofdajjal God demands justice for sin,and God came as Jesus to take the punishment Him self for the sins of His people,people in Hell aren't forgiven,it was only Jesus dying for all the believers only.He died for all men which simple means Jews,Gentiles,fat,skinny,rich,poor ect.,not all men head for head.Jesus came and lead a sinless life,He allowed that only one without sin could die for others and this is how He chose to do it.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
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Give me a date @ 5:22 "Way back in time" Awesome objective data! Case Closed!!
MisterNico101 2 months ago
see videos by Dr.Dirks
NoorminAllah 2 months ago
@NoorminAllah seen them and still lift Islam its false.
ceeker248 2 months ago
@ceeker248 how is Islam false?
pantherlake2002 2 months ago
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John 3:5 makes it clear that its impossible to enter into the Kingdom of God without being born of water and of the Spirit. To learn exactly what this means, please check out the scribd website that is listed on my channel.
DreamsofMajesty 2 months ago
Goodness? I don't WANT to be like God..I have read enough of the bible to understand he is a jealous, vengeful, wrathful asshole who sometimes kills, sometimes enjoys sacrifice and he creates billions of people who he sends to hell UNLESS they go through a special loophole he created. Most people who have been born and died painfully on this planet throughout history have been small children and babies. Why does god hate unborn babies and children so much? I am glad there is SO little evidence.
2003SCT 3 months ago
Dionysus was worshiped over a thousand years BEFORE Jesus showed up and who was born of a mortal woman and a God father etc. I think the point is that Christian mythology borrows elements from many of its precursors. Obviously the story is slightly different so as to differentiate itself and its stories FROM earlier Pagan groups and religions. If they would have just copied the same story, people would have caught on. Many post-Christian religions borrow elements much like Christianity did.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Dionysus was grapes and wine god ( not a real historical figuer)
I do not see any thing that links to Yashouah (jesus).
Jesus lived on earth, and his effect on human soul, hearts and spirits is incomparable with anything God in Flesh who was crucified , by Romans ( real story) die and resurrected for deep spirtual idea.
That you can not be sane and then assume anything from Jesus was palagerized from Dionysus.
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 I didn't say they were identical. Like I said, born of a mortal woman and a "
god father". Even if Christianity and Judaism were COMPLETELY original and borrowed nothing from anything else, it still would have NOTHING to do with the stories of resurrections, creation of the world etc. being true. I don't doubt Jesus was a real person put to death for being a Roman annoyance...but that he was anything beyond just a deluded rabbi is silly. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are nonsense.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
You said Jesus is plagerized from different sources one of them is Dionosys.
When your statement points to the bigotry. because your comparision indicates lack of knowledge to christianity
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 Look below, I said that CHRISTIANITY borrows ELEMENTS from its precursors...many of Jesus' teachings are common sense and were already basic parts of societies far away from the middle east. I may not know everything about Christianity however I know more than 90% of the Christians I meet....which is REALLY sad. If being a bigot means that I dislike lies and half truths which people tell themselves to feel better and others to scare them...then I guess thats what I am.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
You are wrong on the account that Christian teaching were common sense.
Because u seem to allude that if europe currently have ethical superiority that is not christian
Just to remind you:
1- europe was Cheering for the lions
2- Costantine banned discrimination
3- greeks had infanticide + leaving the permanatly sick to die alone
4- europe was more Brutal than middle east in the pre Christian era
5- most imp: ethics has philosophical bases that the back bone of it is "The Cross"
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 I wasn't referring to Europe.that is your inference. Constantine got rid of the discrimination because it became HIS religion. Buddhism as just ONE example is older than Christianity and has had a MUCH MORE peaceful history than the war and bloodshed of Christianity. Greeks had infanticide but then again the Bible advocates TONS of reasons to kill friends and family members. I have never killed anyone but millions of Christians have...common sense tells me I shouldn't.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Buhhism much peaceful, history!!! Whoa hold your horses.
0 - tons of wars
1- Asians are generally more aggressive, less compassionate than all others when it comes to
Charity, or even avoiding running over a child.
2- They hate more other races no tolerance many examples of they do not accept strangers to come to their land to work,
3- Xtian societies were the leaders of tolerance
4- Boxer revolution = buhdhism background did not work well to
tolerate Chinese converting to xtianity
balamanti2 3 months ago
"cntd"
Constantine:Tolerated all religious and social groups and set forth the model of Human rights, which sprange from his
Christian ideology.
Without Christianity there would be no foundation for his tolerance or anybody's tolerance.
Budhist societies are best model: No tolerance for others. If Europe has any superiority in Ethics it lends it self to Christianity
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 Constantine spent plenty of time warring against others like many emperors did and he wanted his new religion AND the popular pagan ones as well..because he was still very much into pagan symbolism and traditions BUT also was a Christian...so obviously he wants religious pluralism...he HIMSELF was a pluralist! That's not charity, that's self interest. Plus, years after converting to Christianity, he had his son and wife killed so he sure sounds tolerant to me. lol.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
U can not say a Christian can be also a pagan at the same time??
Costantine was a Christian not a pagan, the tolerance comes from the very core of Christians.
For Example: in desciples days, paul and peter ordered the other christians not to be violent against "simon"
the semitarian magician when Simon was doing all the harm & Criticism. Christians were majority
But teaching of Jesus & the spirit did not allow it.
The question is why costantine became Christian?!
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 Constantine was a pagan most of his life AND even wore pagan symbols around his neck and on things he had built...nearly up until his death. He did become a self admitted Christian but not only did he not do away with pagan things, he still had much of them around him. Why did he convert? I assume that after hearing a lot of Christian popular underground stories he got a bit paranoid/scared/deluded and figured he ought to hedge his bet..but keep pagan stuff around just in case.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
No ! Constantine converted to Christianity because he was preached by his mother. His Mother converted to Christianity on the hand of two girls who were sentenced to be executed because they were christians .
And she was so much touched and moved by their faith...and became a devout christian, and Constantine was so much moved and inspiured by his mother changing life...that he found truth in her actions and life, what she said to him
and when he was more mature he converted
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 Wow..what a truly moving story about Constantine's mother. After hearing this story, I totally want to convert too! He must have been so moved by his Christian faith that he became a very moral person....well again, except for killing his wife and son years AFTER converting to Christianity but hey...those are only small details. lol. I don't want to be like God..I have read enough of the bible to understand he is a jealous
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Jealous in aramaic language is : Gayour, and this verb comes from being "immersed". and it is used to indicate love - fatherly love, this objection u & other have shows bit of ignorance.
the verb Ghayoor, is used of the father who is immesed to love and protect his Children, the aramaic language has no 100% equivalent in english
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 I don't care WHAT the translation of Jealous is...I am sure you are referencing the "I am a jealous God" but thats not what I am even talking about. I am talking about the way he ACTS...he acts jealously on a regular basis...much like a petulant child.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
I do not know what jealousy means to you? but there is difference between envy and being "immerssed in" some one,
ghayour, comes in in two form : Ghayour from, and Ghayour in ==> "Jealous from" , and "Jealous on"
"Jealous ON" or "jealous at" means = loving, protective, immerssed,
U can say "Ghayoor on" his career i.e "jealous on" his career it means u r dedicated, and immerssed.
then you are a "ghayoor" person = a "Jealous" person
etc..
balamanti2 3 months ago
'cntd'
So God being "ghayoor" means being immerssed and protective, loving
because God is "Ghayoou on" his children " = "jealous on" his children which makes him a Ghayoor God = Jealous God
balamanti2 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Constantine's Anti-Pagan stance is well documented. he was tolerant to pagans but :
1- refused to take part in a pagan procession offended the Romanshe pagan gods 2- pagan legends did not survive much more than a few years on Constantine's coinage & they disappeared so quickly
3- forbade overzealous Christians to disturb the pagan cult. He nevertheless destroyed three famous temples, at Aegae in Cilicia and at Apheca and Heliopolis in Phoenicia,
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 I'm glad you believe all of this but I LOVE the fact that Christianity steals its backstory from the Jews and runs with it...a large portion of it written by that deluded idiot Paul. The character of Jesus probably had some great stuff to say but what you read in the Bible is re-translated stories by mostly non-eyewitnesses in a backward goat hearding culture 2,000 years ago. It's sad, its appalling how gullible and dense you can be. How do you say gullible in Aramaic?
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
"Christianity steals its backstory from the Jews "
Mind you, the first Christians were jews, Jesus , mary, paul , John were all jews
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 That's correct..the first Christians/Jesus were Jews. If the God of the OT and NT weren't so different I would concede that its just a continuation of nonsense..albeit quite a bit more humane and reasonable. But so many things change and "no longer count" that it really is robbing the old stories for the backstory you need and then changing the law/commandments where you want change. Its an unfortunate thing that the early church had to include the OT...its a true piece of shit.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
many documents talked about his son committed ugly crimes ,
So his stance killing his own son, as punishment like the rest of people could be taken,
as equating murder intolerance even in his own family! maybe he was just too just for you to understand
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 It could be the case but I have never heard that Constantine killed his son to stop him from committing crimes/because he commit crimes. Most scholars agree this was due to Constantine's jealousy due to an affair. But yeah your eye for an eye stance really aligns with the Old Testament so thats good. lol. Too just for me to understand? Maybe common sense is too much for you to understand and desert tribe tales of nonsense have to fill in for it?
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
It is not eye for any eye.
I guess the Roman capital punishment should be ordered by the head of the state based on Crimes that deserve capital punishment.
So the blame should not be jewish culture but on the Roman culture, costantine was applying the law in Roman days, and if his Son commited a punishable crime he did not waver that to him. Maybe that is the case.
and this makes sense
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 Sure, I will even acquiesce and say that Constantine was doing Roman law...in this case it seems to be the same as Jewish law was in Leviticus....a punishment we have outgrown like so many other things IN THE TEETH OF religion. Then again, who even wrote Leviticus? Moses? Who was Moses? Its not like anyone has objective or actual data about the guy. All we have left is an author-less disgusting text which we would be better off without. Blind faith at its best.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Is it Lev.18:22 that makes you state that book by name?
Most people who haven't read the books for themselves have a misunderstanding about them.
They are not politically correct. To that I say THANK G_D!!!
So what exactly do you not like about them? They are just as valid today as the day they were wrote.
onemarktwoyou 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou Leviticus is shit. The aroma of burnt sacrificial offerings pleases god? I won't list all the stuff because I guarantee you have heard it all (unlike most Christians who don't actually know WHAT the Bible contains..which is why you have this large population of people ignorant of things other than their favorite few pop culture tales of Jesus, lepers and Moses and the Red Sea.) Lemme guess, you have your own special interpretation like so many others as to circumvent reality?
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Well if being a christian is ignorant,then I'm in!
This guy here is a prime example of majority of atheist! He is at best half educated on the subject.
Even I an ignorant christian knew his argument was not truthful, not saying he was lying. Just Uneducated on the subject. Atheist claim that they don't have a religious belief, most have taken up the alien god belief. Sorry I can't fall for that one personally. I don't blame you for being irritated at Christians, a few are a pain
onemarktwoyou 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou I was raised as a Christian and at that time I certainly was ignorant...I was told a lot of things and wasn't told many more. About 6 years ago I wanted to educate myself more (due to talking to people at work) and what I found was more than I ever could have imagined..found out about Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism etc. I have found that most Christians I meet or hear from are in the position I was in the past...not knowing much about their religion or Bible.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou And I find it a rare thing for an Atheist to believe in an "alien god" as you say. Most atheists are skeptics and are very skeptical of religious claims, faith healing, aliens, ufos, psychics, crystal powers etc. I hate to lump them all together but all base themselves on a person's story that you just have to believe...even though evidence is typically non existent or very very limited. Just wanted to clarify that.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Most atheist I have been running into do believe in aliens. Unlike you I wasn't raised in a christian home. Facts had been in the back of my head that I ignored. I found G-d by studies. I reached a point I guess I was done rebelling against authority. I could no longer deny a creator. I learned a long time ago not to trust any experts. After listening to debates on all the subjects of interests and watching people squirm on both sides I became informed enough to make my decision.
onemarktwoyou 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou You may be misinterpreting the atheists. If they say "Its possible there are aliens out there somewhere" that doesn't mean they "believe in aliens"...anymore than if someone says "Its possible there is a God somewhere out there"...that doesn't mean they are a christian. The same logic is used with God...nobody can prove God DOES NOT exist...same as nobody can prove ALIENS don't exist. In both cases, MOST atheists say that as of yet, nobody has provided convincing evidence.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou You or anyone doesn't have to "deny a creator" and I actually find it perfectly logical to be in the position to say that you think there must be some creator or god or something that sprang things into being...I have no problem with this AT ALL...its a deist position. But to go from a deist to a theist and from a theist to a Christian is quite illogical. Its like jumping from "there could be life on other planets" to saying "I talk to aliens and they tell me bedtime stories."
2003SCT 3 months ago
@balamanti2 Even if we say that Constantine never killed a single person, converted to Christianity, and then went around spreading love and joy and planting flowers and trees, it still says NOTHING AT ALL about the truth claims of the Bible. I think that Christianity has SCARED many people into doing good or not doing bad but it has also given plenty of people reasons to act worse to people. I personally know plenty of non-believer's who's families have ex-communicated them for example.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
"Christianity has SCARED many people into doing good "
you do not know Christians nor Christianity,
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 The fear of hell and the unknown is the DRIVING FACTOR behind the majority of Christians I have met over the years and seems to drive the Christians who call into the talk shows I listen to and watch. I follow a number of broadcasts and shows and get to hear it all right from the horses mouth every week. Their thousands of voices are more proof than your one opinion.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Did your father not teach you right from wrong? Did he not punish you? G-d said there is a hell, Christians just don't want anyone to go to hell. That is the difference between islam. They believe to convert or kill, G-d said love thy neighbor.
RC church really isn't Christianity, to be excommunicated from them means you are in good company. Don't confuse the noble men class that ran the RC church from Christianity. They follow pagan teachings, that is why they used the sword.
onemarktwoyou 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou
I was watching a christian video when I noticed a rouge atheist on there attempting to ruin as many peoples days as possible. He believed in aliens came down here and stacked giant blocks. He was ruthless! I destroyed every revisionist historical misconception he had. Yet he persisted. He attacked me on the video and on comments on my channel. If you want to read them,I left some of his statements there on my channel. I usually get along with atheist, but he had a problem!
onemarktwoyou 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou I honestly doubt he was an atheist. If he was talking about aliens stacking giant blocks or something I assume he is just an argumentative person trying to get a rise out of YouTube viewers. If you want videos of actual skeptics and atheists with hundreds of thousands of views/viewers on YouTube, The Atheist Experience is going to give you ACTUAL atheists and skeptics which mirror the beliefs of the majority.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou My dad taught me many things...but much of it came naturally. My dad did punish me but no matter what I did, he never threatened to lock me in the basement and torture me forever and ever...which is effectively what Christians say god does. God said there is a hell? No, ancient people CLAIM that the creator of the universe told them something. "God" said love thy neighbor....but he also told us plenty of times when its fine to kill our neighbors and family members too.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
I was comparing your father with the Father. They both ask for obedience.
I see now! You grew away from your faith because your secular values contradicted with your faith.
I had a problem with that too, until I read the old testament. I was lucky enough to be old enough to read it in context. What I thought was contradictions I realize were not. I had listened to people who quoted the bible out of context. Age gave me wisdom, and living in the world gave me understanding of why.
onemarktwoyou 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou Yes and no. I was unfamiliar with much of the Bible and really only read it as an adult....I didn't grow away from my faith because I never really had one..I was raised in a Christian household but deep inside I figured it was people's interpretation...which as an adult I think it is even more than as a child. And yes, secular values often contradict Christianity, Islam and Judiam.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@onemarktwoyou Your post is nothing I haven't read before."Oh you are reading it out of context". Sorry, I have heard every excuse under the sun to try and make up for the bullshit and which I assume is why so many christians end up having to say, "Well that was the old days and doesn't count, so lets talk about Jesus". Its fine to say that but I dare say its particularly honest. Do your religion and your faith a great service and say its FAITH. You believe in Paul's testimony..but its not fact.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
If Christians say the old testament doesn't count, then they commit apostasy. I have heard some self claimed Christians say that and its bull! Two reasons. First we are not Hebrew. Second the new covenant doesn't exclude the "laws". Jesus did not change any laws or conduct.
Oh' and reading out of context is usually what is done. I had fallen for most likely intentional miss quoting of the bible before. My atheistic to christian change took years, I wasn't looking to change.
onemarktwoyou 2 months ago
@onemarktwoyou I wasn't looking to change my "religious status" either but it happened. My MAIN position is that there is no reason to think that the all the OT and NT religious texts we have are exact dialogues and recording of exactly what went on and what was said...certainly not verbatim. And without it being exact and inerrant, it falls apart and deflates like a football which has lost its stitching. That's where you make a giant leap and so does every literal religious believer.
2003SCT 2 months ago
@2003SCT
Excellent point. I actually used this argument myself while I was rejecting it. The trouble I encountered was when I asked does it at least represent the intent? I first approached the bible as an old law book. Meant to keep people inline. I guess we went completely off topic of this video. I think my point was that atheist have just as much trouble finding someone competent as a christian does. I can't believe this guy was on TV as an expert.
onemarktwoyou 2 months ago
@onemarktwoyou And yes my father did ASK for obedience...god DEMANDS it.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@balamanti2 Hey no society is perfect but Christianity takes the cake on killing...then again it stems from a Bible which, again, gives plenty of times that you SHOULD kill friend, family or stranger...of course this is when God himself isn't busy killing people. lol. I live in America and the most hateful and intolerant people are "generally" the deeply religious southerners...sure hasn't helped them. Most research polls show people in jail and prison believe in God.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
Christianity is based on Love thy enemy: No on killing,
there is a good reason to love your enemy in xtianity, it is if u want realized by the redefinition of life, death, purpose of life & nature of God which explains in a way why we know goodness and have moral judgement.
in any existential or natural philosophy there ain't any objective bases for objective morality.
The same xtian philosophy set forth the tsunami of change in Human rights & became the pinnacle role model
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 I don't think there is absolutely objective morality. It isn't needed. It IS subjective though MOST humans agree on certain tenants which are quite universal. The Bible ATTEMPTS to explain things and it was fine a couple thousand years ago.But the microscope, the telescope and fossils have given us more insight in the last 100 years alone than deluded bronze age peasants and their pop culture stories. There is plenty of good in many religions along with a lot of misapprehension.
2003SCT 3 months ago
@2003SCT
In Christian belief, absolute morality (goodness) is anything that leads towards ever lasting life and being like God
Anything that does not lead to everlasting life and knowing God is somehow, evil and tricky...i.e. from the devil
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 I will give you the last word but I will have to bow out now. You can enjoy your bronze age superstitious goat herding middle eastern oral tradition stories all you want. I will, again, enjoy the wonders of the telescope, microscope, fossils, DNA, and all of the pre-human things we have yet to find but are exciting enough. And I will continue to do my charity work and never kill or harm anyone. And unlike many, I don't need the threat of hell or promise of eternity to do so.
2003SCT 3 months ago
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WeTheStrange 3 months ago
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@balamanti2 @balamanti2 I'm sorry, but you're totally wrong I'm afraid. According to the Gospels, Jesus preached love and forgiveness, yet in the 2nd book of Thessalonians, "God's Word" clearly states that "in flaming fire, [ Christ will ] inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." Forget the sugar-coating. The loving message of Christianity is perfectly simple:
Believe in Jesus...or burn!
WeTheStrange 3 months ago
@WeTheStrange
I do not see any problem with this statement
Mercy is not forever and ever, there is a grace period, and this is just very sane and logical.
there is a 2nd and 3rd and 4th chance but not forever open check to do sin.
and there is nothing wrong in it.
people are given parole , the role model is Jesus Christ, if you step on that pure blood , one time, two times, then you coe to realize the sin you are in that will be ok,
But step on a pure blood &disrespect 4ever then NO,
balamanti2 3 months ago
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@balamanti2 What in the name of sanity are you talking about? You're making about as much sense as the bible itself. Like most believers you just make it all up as you go along.
WeTheStrange 3 months ago
@2003SCT
" just a deluded rabbi"
I kinda wonder about all the lives that Jesus changed, all the History that followed him, all institutions...
Just a deluded rabbi... You just make me laugh at your bigotry
balamanti2 3 months ago
@balamanti2 On the extremely slight off chance Jesus' words resembled what is written today, then yes, he was absolutely deluded. I will say that he did have some great stuff to say....as many philosophically-minded individuals have.
2003SCT 3 months ago
Strobel had it right in the first couple sentences....legend and mythology....but with a little bit of historicity sprinkled in for good measure.
2003SCT 3 months ago
Looks like somebody wasn't very confident in their debate. The truth prevails!
dropnaline84 3 months ago
I find it a bit strange that people say that there even is proof of the resurrection of Jesus.
To me it seems that all the christians have is an old book full of other fairy tales - all of them equally unbelievable.
It does not fall into the category of "proof".
itsjustameme 3 months ago
Now i want to see, where is the data that proves Jesus living in the first place?
Narvik95 4 months ago
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kingfisher64 4 months ago
Now make a dispute about whether the Tooth Fairy wears pink or green!
In order to have an argument about certain episodes about a person's life, shouldn't we first establish that the person ever even existed??
grozde 4 months ago
Jesus is real... and if you don't Belive in hell... you will when you get there.He is the only person who came back from the dead...he is our creator.always was and always will be....he is the greatest the alpha and the omega...and I sure can't wait to bow down and worship him in person forever.
GodAndMePlus3 4 months ago
@GodAndMePlus3 No, sorry...don't subscribe to that philosophy...
boc1953 4 months ago
@ 55k3v1n....you nailed it buddy!!!! Tell it like it is...same as I said nobody is gonna willingly die for something they really truley don't Belive
GodAndMePlus3 4 months ago
@GodAndMePlus3 It's such a simple concept to grasp that the early Christains would be willing to suffer beatings, stonings, prison and execution for spreading something they KNOW TO BE FALSE. And without their efforts there would have been no reason whatsoever for Christianity to have had such a rapid initial growth. It's all based on that one central fact: the resurrection. Not even one church would exist today without that one historic event. Take care bro.
55k3v1n 4 months ago
LOL "the world's leading authority on the resurrection" In other words, an authority on bullshit.
fdasherv 4 months ago
My question is...Did he raise himself? If he did, then he did not truly die ..& we are still lost in our sins!
If hell is punishment (ie torture) for our sins FOREVER, why didn't Jesus stay there forever? --to prove his case? The fact the Yhashua (Jesus) was divine, in this case, doesnt really "change" anything.
Via Christian doctrine, the REALITY of hell is FOREVER. So should be his sacrifice! Can't weisel out of that one!
Some fallen angel has his fingers in the pie of modern faith!
microvantastic 4 months ago
fuck you!!! Jesus did rise from the dead!
yourmother438 4 months ago
@yourmother438 That's no way to talk to your mother!
boc1953 4 months ago
I find it interesting that atheist follow the hate speech so readily.
I find most popular authors of atheist books have not done PROPER fact checking.
onemarktwoyou 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@onemarktwoyou so true
"I find it interesting that atheist follow the hate speech so readily.
I find most popular authors of atheist books have not done PROPER fact checking."
semitope 4 months ago
@onemarktwoyou I am an atheist and I have never hated anyone! I think you are a bit judgemental. Maybe you see anyone with a different philosophical viewpoint to you as hating you...
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953
Listen to the arguments of this atheist again. He lacks the the true understanding of his false statements.
Yet he promotes a magazine on the subjects that he is so poorly qualified to speak on. I have debated atheists and found their arguments completely wrong. Example 1) King James was a gay that wrote the KJV bible. 2) Thomas Jefferson was an atheist and didn't believe the bible. The sources for these 2 falsities are well known, but doesn't stop them from being used! Thank you.
onemarktwoyou 4 months ago
@onemarktwoyou - I've had one athiest tell me Dragons were in the bible. The level of education for athiests i've spokent to is appauling. A friend of mine told me He didn't believe in the Bible - all fairy tales. When asked how much of the Bible he knew, he stated he'd NEVER read any of it. His information was taken completely from heresay and completely out of context. And they call Chrisitan's uneducated!
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64
I am not going to say there isn't intelligent atheist out there.I find the intelligent ones to be pleasant. Hitchens and Dawkins are arrogant and horribly over rated and they are the ones that hateful people flock to. They can clearly lose a debate and their followers claim it as a victory.
Then again there are apologists such as William Lane Craig that I wish they would keep their mouths shut. So in fairness I say our side has its problems too. Let G-d's will be done.
onemarktwoyou 4 months ago
@onemarktwoyou - I'm not suggesting all atheists are stupid. The few that I gave spoke to have been horribly uneducated. A more accurate description would be willfully ignorant of the Bible's content. I've always been curious as to why some athiests seem so angry at the Bible. There appears to be a undercurrent of hatred towards the Bible. Considering that nearly every major successful country across the world deploys Christian values at the heart of it's society - i'm intregued at any hatred.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64
The hatred of the bible in the USA was largely caused by the fact it states such verses as Lev 20:13 "they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them". The bible goes on and states a moral code of conduct which isn't approved by the product of the 1960's free love movement(sex, drugs and rock-n-roll). The bible isn't very politically correct. Follow a time line-rejection of the bible(1950's-2010). Then plot it against poverty, disease, education. It is sad.
onemarktwoyou 4 months ago
@onemarktwoyou It's just so hard to find any facts to check when looking into religion...that's why proper fact checking is impossible! Just a thought...
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953
Make your own graphs.
Plot church turn outs. Then plot the other factors against it. Beware that the SATs have been dumb down, so do not use them. Their are graphs that some people have done. Where they are I do not know.
onemarktwoyou 4 months ago
@onemarktwoyou I don't understand your post. What do you want me to plot church turn outs for? I'm confused...
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953
Plot on the X axis the years 1940 - 2010
Y axis 0-100% for church attendance. Can't use population because it varies though the years, so percentages will be best.
Then plot on the Y axis beside church attendance what ever you want to examine related to it.
Example of certain stats had showed that seniors graduating high school today was at the 8th grade level of the mid 1950s. But remember that the schools keeps changing the equivalency tests. So find numbers that can be trusted.
onemarktwoyou 4 months ago
@onemarktwoyou Why would I want to do that? I don't understand what position you are trying to present to me...
boc1953 4 months ago
Why are people just quoting the bible blindly with no reason?
What point does this useless information serve?
This video was comparing myth to date.
The bible could state god is a flying monkey, or that god Invented dinosaurs to confuse man but it still means nothing in contrast to absence of proof.
No quote within it is going to help it or you make it's case.
Marazish 5 months ago
nope! chuck testa.
xAdventFilms 5 months ago
NB strobels assertion that "virtually all scholars agree . . . ." etc in the first 20 seconds. That is just bollocks, jewish,muslim and secular scholars would not agree with that and strobel knows it, but lying for jesus doesn't seem to be a problem.
1empathy 5 months ago
Did Jesus rise from the dead? I know this one. YES. Next topic :)
kingfisher64 5 months ago
@kingfisher64 Do christians and all other religious believers pretend to know things that they don't know? I know this one. YES. Next topic :)
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953 - How do you know that I don't know? The Christian faith is not based on blind faith. The Holy spirit - part of the trinity was left on the day of Penticost to help people to have a relationship with God. He is described as the comforter. He is where a real tangible relationship with God starts. You can always sincerely ask God for an "experience" with Him. Be aware though, this normally means dropping pre-conceived ideas and being willing to do things His way. :)
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 It's called faith because it's not knowledge! That's how I know you don't know. All religious faith is blind faith, otherwise it would be knowledge. The 'comforter' is no more than an invisible imaginary entity, otherwise you would be able to introduce him to me without me having to suspend my ideas (ie my critical rational thinking) and be willing to 'do things his way' :)
boc1953 4 months ago
boc1953 - please don't be so concedending. It's not called proof - it's called faith. You can't disprove the existence of any part of the Trinity - if you believe you can then you have a "blind faith" in that, which is exactly what your're critising against. I have a faith, however it's based on previous life experiences, historial documentation and scientific research and choose to implement faith to fill in the gaps rather than skepticism.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 I apologise if I seem condescending to you. That is not my intention. I can't disprove something which has not been proven but I can dismiss that which is postulated without evidence. I don't mean to be argumentative or offensive, I just genuinely don't understand how a rational person can continue to believe in bronze aged mythology! I'm sure you are not given to irrational beliefs in any other area of your life and I don't get why you make an exception with your religion.Respect.
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953 - "Postulated without evidence". Every area of science is littered with postulation. That's how theory's are built. You will have belief system's in every area of your life that started via postulation. Does that mean you're believing in bronze aged mythology in those areas? I know quite a few atheists and the one thing they have in common is very limited knowledge on biblical history and research. What do you know in this area? Because the previous comment suggests very little.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 Postulated to begin with but they only become theories if they and stand up to rigorous critical analysis. The kind of analysis that would destroy any religious postulation immediately! Comparing scientific theories with religious ideas is silly. They are not the same thing and are not arrived at in the same way at all! I don't have belief systems in my life that can't bear rational analysis. I have read some biblical history but not a huge amount. Karen Armstrong's History Of God?
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953 - What non Holy Spirit filled people fail to understand is that when His Spirit comes into your life something changes inside. It's not a feeling, it's not a momentary thing it's a sense of absolute certainty that's very hard to explain. The good news is that anybody who is truly interested can find this. "If you seek me with all your're heart, you will find me". The problem is most scientific people can't get over the first barrier in having a little bit of faith in God.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 You said "when His Spirit comes into your life something changes inside. It's not a feeling, it's not a momentary thing it's a sense of absolute certainty that's very hard to explain." This is text book delusion! Look it up and you will see! Just because you believe it with all your heart, doesn't make it true! Many people throughout history have had delusional beliefs. Just because they are as strong as true beliefs, doesn't make them true!
boc1953 4 months ago
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kingfisher64 4 months ago
@boc1953 - I don't agree with you and don't believe you are qualified to judge other people on something you yourself havn't experienced. It would be nice to see non-believers seeking the answers for themselves rather than branding people deluded . It shows a element of arrogance and lack of respect to brand people you have not met - you certainatly havn't done or said anything which has converted me to your viewpoint - quite the opposite.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 I am not judging you, rather I am trying to find out why you believe as you do. As a non believer, I can accept that some things will never be known to human beings before our tenure on this planet has run it's course. I don't need the answer to everything! And to me, trying to support an argument that says your particular god of choice is the answer is arrogant.And what of me? Am I to burn in eternal fire? Do I deserve that? That is lack of respect! I am not trying to convert you.
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953 - "your particular God of choice is the answer is arrogant" - NO it's not - that's faith. There's no arrogance in saying that whatsover. It's my belief to which you have belittled on more than one occasion. . I think finally the real reason for you questioning Christians has come out. It's the eternal fire bit right? It's interesting you mention that as I have a huge problem with it which is why at the moment i'm trying to research it.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 But what makes you believe that your faith is the right one? I am not trying to belittle your faith. The real reason for my questioning christians is that I REALLY want to know why they carry this belief! It is that simple! Have you been a believer since childhood? Is it belief through the loving indoctrination of your parents? I don't believe in the eternal fire because I don't believe in heaven or hell. I am as sure as I can be that neither of them exist.
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953 - Carrying on from last comment. There are different beliefs when it comes down to judgement throughout the Christian church. I personally don't believe anybody deserves eternal punishment. We all do things wrong and have to face responsibility for that - which is where the Christian faith shines like no other, from a logical point of view - in terms of Jesus's purpose. If God accepted people at less than perfect would heaven/zion continue to be a perfect place? Sin cannot enter heaven.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 Of course there are different beliefs on all things in christianity! That is one reason why I don't understand the faith! Anyone who disagrees with one christians view is 'not a real christian'! I mean, if you go by the bible, no western christian is going to heaven because they all disobey god's old testament law! As for the NT as a shining example? It's central doctrine of atonement is one of the most immoral concepts man has ever come up with! It is a disgrace!
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953 - With respect you've misunderstood the premise of Christianity. The old testiment is what the Jews go by - which is based on good vs bad works to determine a person's destiny. They reject Jesus as the Messiah and therefore don't accept the NT. The Torah is the OT. References to hell (I believe there's 162 are spread out throughout the NT and OT). There is a lot of metaphorical analygies in the Bible. If a person takes everything quite literally - it appears contradictory.
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@boc1953 - Carrying on from last comment. The people in old testiment time used to sacrifice "pure" (morally) animals (sheep) as a pardon for their sins or wrongs. The principal of Jesus is that he formed one third of a trinity (perfect in nature) and sacraficed himself for us so that we wouldn't have to try to attain that on our own - which is impossible. The idea that God judges people for rights and wrongs is the same across most faith's but Christianity says that if you accept Jesus come...
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@boc1953 judgement day God will look into your heart and see that you have accepted his Son and therefore you are forgiven. Jesus says accept my present of forgiveness of Me - the work of the cross/calvary and carry on with your life - trying to do your best, you're forgiven. There are some horrible passages in the Bible, but the story of Jesus and God's forgiveness that comes with is the most beautiful and loving conecpt any perfect being could offer us. :)
kingfisher64 4 months ago
@kingfisher64 I don't understand why blood sacrifice was necessary in order for forgiveness to be given. According to your faith, a rapist and murderer who kills a child of moslem parents and later repents on death row and gives his heart to jesus will go to heaven after he is executed. But his moslem victim will not get there because she worshipped the wrong god! Explain to me how that is the most beautiful and loving concept any perfect being could offer us. I really don't understand...
boc1953 4 months ago
@boc1953 - The Bible stats that God is a "just and fair God". According to my faith God IS LOVE. Look at it from a very logical point of view would a just and fair God send a victim of a horrible crime to hell? He also states that a person will be judged according to their knowledge - which opens up a whole other line of questioning. Some Christians believe that all people will come to be forgiven by God at some point in time. God loves me and you unconditionally. :) No need to worry.
kingfisher64 3 months ago
@kingfisher64 If I look at it from a logical point of view, I conclude that there is no god! That is what logic suggests to any thinking person. Some christians believe all people will be forgiven eventually, other christians believe sinners will burn in the lake of fire for ever! Christians believe a whole raft of things which are worlds apart from each other.
boc1953 3 months ago
@boc1953 - Carrying on from previous comment. The basis of the Christian faith is that God wants to forgive us. However justice and fairness come hand in hand. In society today if somebody murders somebody else- we expect some form of punishment, that person isn't just excused if they are sorry. How can a sinful person enter a place without sin (God's presence/heaven) and it remain perfect/sinless? In short Jesus led a perfect life so me and you didn't have to - as we can't. Hope this helps.
kingfisher64 3 months ago
@kingfisher64 God is not constrained by human rules. If he wants to forgive, he can. He doesn't have to have himself crucified in order to allow himself to forgive humanity the sins that he knew they would commit in the first place! If he didn't want us to sin, why did he make us so inquisitive? The logical answer is obvious...he didn't! He didn't create us at all because he doesn't exist! I can't say that definitively, but that is where all the evidence points!
boc1953 3 months ago
@boc1953 - God lays down a challenge for people who wish to experience his presence "if you seek me with all your heart - you will find me". There are people who complain at the logical evidence of God's existence, but yet won't go out of their way or meet God half way - as in their heart they have already made up their own mind.
kingfisher64 3 months ago