Bill Clinton - Losers and Loners Make Democracy 'Sing'

[bayreuth79]

If there is one thing I cannot abide its American hypocricy. As we all know, the US government has supported dictatorships and deliberately undermined democratically elected governments in various countries! Please, don't lecture us about democracy: its something American's only want exported to the extent that it benefits themselves! Besides, as Noam Chomsky points out, America is a polyarchy and not a democracy. Read James Maddison!

Clinton = bumpkin

[tikiforce]

Hes slowly tapping his feet to the sax music in his mind.

[SidewalkFrequencies]

Crunch time Uncle Willy, I hope you come round son.

[mikeatEMEco]

lol i feel like both a loser and a loner

[DartmouthAlum96]

Slick Willie is the man.

[DREwestcoast]

@DartmouthAlum96 he sure is a better front man than obama

[buchananstreet]

hes got the face an body movements of a very troubled soul

[blacksabbathgnr098]

I used to think majority rule was the best way to go, but then I realized how many stupid people out there. I mean the sad truth is, most people think that raising the minimum wage would help poor people!

[ohilikeyou]

I say we kill the poor.

[blacksabbathgnr098]

@ohilikeyou Poor is just a comparison. I say we kill the people who make incentives for poor people to stay poor. (unemployment benefits, minimum wage increases, public housing, etc.)

[lordblazer]

minimum wage increases doesn't give incentives to stay poor. Though if you are young you can have a shot, but I think blaming the poor, and this demented logic that many seem to have needs to end.

[blacksabbathgnr098]

@lordblazer Minimum wage increases also increase unemployment. This is very simple economics: unemployment equals Qs-Qd. When minimum wage increases, the supply of labor decreases with the rice in minimum prices. This creates more unemployment.

Unemployment benefits give incentives for poor people to stay poor. That's why in France, where a laid off worker recieves much higher unemployment benefits than in the U.S., long term unemployment is at 41.6% historically compared to the US of 12.7%

[lordblazer]

irrelevant due to it being only limited in the short run.. A very short sighted view you have. I see that the free market fundamentalist are trying to win again. The problem with not having a minimum wage far outweighs the problems of having a minimum wage. When its raised minimum wage only causes unemooyment increases in the short term. Many of which involve small businesses that can't handle the hike. Most cities that have good city gov't create incentives for smaller businesses to hire.

[lordblazer]

I don't think you understand the basis of having unemployment benefits. First of all it is highly regulated. Not many people are getting it, and very few people are able to just freeload from it. Unemployment quite literally is only enough to cover the fees that comes with job hunting. If anyone is somehow finding a way to mooch off of it more than likely they aren't job hunting, and are living in someone's elses place without paying rent.. even in oklahoma rent cost at a minimum of $300/mo

[lordblazer]

Simply put it doesn't give them an incentive to stay poor. IF this arguement was about welfare then I would have to agree, because people on welfare usually are put into debt by the gov't and are given no real choices to increase what they earn while in the status. THey are below the poverty line, but not too far so they can live, but they can't get out. It simply isn't their fault in this case, but of course republicans had a lot to do with the regulations regarding welfare.

[lordblazer]

fun fact: most black people are not on welfare.

another fun fact: unemployment benefits is highly regulated, and difficult to obtain. There are ways to lose your job that makes you ineligible to receive such benefits. Most people don't. Also people who have given up on searching for work are no longer considered unemployed thus ineligible. Also college graduates who are new to the job market are also considered ineligible. A lot of things are happening please don't be so narrow minded.

[blacksabbathgnr098]

@lordblazer Our unemployment benefits are more regulated and less generous than Europe's, which is why they have more structural unemployment than us. Raising the minimum wage creates more unemployment by definition, this is just a basic economic principle.

I never said most black people are on welfare.

There are some ways that government can help the poor without giving them a free ride. Like when a government offers money for people who find a job quickly, and diminishing UE benefitsannualy

[chantel911]

Mr clinton first place in haiti is need you the most is gonaives, go there and make some miracle please please i know you can do it ,,, i will call it dreams come true to me,,, i been pray for this miracle to happened for my contry,,,,thank you jesus,,,

[FahQposeurfag]

BULLSHIT

[itierney]

he makes 2 assumptions.

1. Majority rule is good.

2. The American system is worth exporting.

[kevintype]

Itierney, many people make those assumptions. Clinton asks us to examine those assumptions and learn from them.

When people anywhere decide they believe "majority rule is good," life can get dangerous for minorities of any kind. So, can majority rule be done in a way that keeps it safe to be in the minority?

The present American system is not perfect, but it IS one of the safest places, in all of human history, to be on the losing side of an election. THAT ideal is worth exporting.

[itierney]

Well these ideas aren't american.

And its safe so long as you are.

See what americans assume, is that since they can't see major harm in their immediate vicinity, they must be doing ok. You are talking about a country that has 100's of military bases all over the world. Has collectively held up a Gas station (the middles east) and has been in a perpetual state of war for over 50 years.

And some how other countries have something to learn from this great system? Bullshit.

[kevintype]

Itierney, I never claimed these were exclusively American ideas. Only that they are worth examining, rather than accepting (or rejecting) blindly.

I also never claimed America is doing a perfect job of living up to its ideals. No human system is ever perfect. Constant improvement is always necessary.

If you have alternative ideas you believe would better serve the world's needs, I am curious to learn what they are. It is always possible to learn from each other, even when we are not perfect.

[MattyJames25]

Western Europe could only enjoy the process of regional integration because we shouldered the burden of your security since the Russians effectively took over all of Eastern Europe after WWII. Without our "perpetual state of war for over 50 years" you would have had to cough up and spend money on defense and take on the expansionist Soviets yourselves. In Ireland, your "miracle economy" was funded with EU (or EC back then) tax money- so now you can all afford to be critical of us.

[arcticmunchy]

What makes you think that USA is the good guys? Possible the Corporate mass media?

[MattyJames25]

That implies that one listens, or gives credit to the mass media - I'd prefer just to let the record speak for itself; the US isn't perfect but Western Europe has never enjoyed such prosperity as it has under American security protection - don't believe me? Ask anyone over the age of 30 in Eastern Europe how great life was under Soviet rule.

Same goes for South versus North Korea.

Same goes for Japan versus China.

Same goes for Israel versus Syria.

Kosovo, Afghanistan... Not yet Iraq lol

[lordblazer]

yea they can, but rightfully so. Their society is different, and you are quite arrogant thinking it was only because of the US. IT had a lot to do with the fact that WWII destroyed Europe quite literally. Ever seen the move Jericho. That could've been a reality in europe. Soo they did work hard to become more integrated regionally. Only recently has there been opposition towards it.

[lordblazer]

well Japan is quite safe to be on the losing side. THough Singapore it isn't mainly because you simply lose your credibility and livelihood thus forcing you to leave the city-state... The US though is very much what you are saying. ITs quite safe to be on the opposition, and I think that's one of the greatest achievement that the US has done that other civilizations had failed to do.

[xxmonickkkkaxx]

Exactly.  We were meant to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Benjamin Franklin and many of the other founders frowned upon democracy.

[lordblazer]

you forget that a constitutional republic is a form of democratic gov't and you forget that the US is the first modern democracy to arise since the last ones in ancient greece.

[phornuphto]

f off u disgusting war criminal

[NameFreedom]

Sucks to make democracy sing.

[RadarGuidedVermin]

Piss of Bill. Go find something to stick your dick in.

[wimscheers]

"Piss of Bill. Go find something to stick your dick in. " And wouldn't thàt be a great way to spend your time?

[catgumart]

there is always a group, or groups, or certain individuals that society finds convenient to scapegoat or direct negativity at, if we are not on top of this natural human predisposition then we aren't enacting justice and equality. I have been the victim of mobbing in the past 8 years and it is scary , its like people have a license to treat you as less and find any evidence they can to support their right to abuse,harass,exclude you or deny your equality either subtly or overtly or covertly.

[catgumart]

Good Point sir!

[s4njuro]

Bravo!

[jcoverload]

and what do we do with the losers and the loners? I know, do you?

[bushcraft0304]

Yes, I know. We, in our christian zeal to make those son-of-a-bitches repent, put them in jail.

[g0ysorg]

I'm shocked. Bill got the answer right!

By the way, the USA isn't a democracy. It's a REPUBLIC. This distinction is actually codified in the Law itself - that all states shall enjoy a REPUBLICAN form of government..

A "pure democracy" is like 2 wolves & a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. In a constitutional Republic --no "majority" of wolves can vote away the RIGHTS of the Sheep (such as the right to life).

[wimscheers]

That's the constitutional part. A republic is just a type of government where you have a voted government instead of a monarch. That's it. You can have an unconstitutional republic, but a constitution provides stability and basic rights to the country and its citizens. More, two wolves and a sheep can decide whats for diner in a constitutional democracy. As long as this constitution doesnt mention any rights for that sheep.

[kevintype]

Smaug84, your claim relies on making an indefensible change to the accepted definition of the term "mob rule." This phrase is always used to refer to a situation in which the will of the mob is NOT restrained by any moderating force.

The most illustrative example of mob rule is a lynch mob, which commits murder by executing someone without a proper trial.

A system which slows down the process and gives minority views a chance to be heard is NOT mob rule, even if the mob still has a voice too.

[abbesieyes]

Ha! A servant of Rome telling everyone he and his ilk are exporting the Constitution. What twaddle.

[juggalonumber27]

he's lookin rough these days

[franksvenatra]

a valid political point

[milfrie]

democracy is mob rule.

[kevintype]

Maybe so, but CONSTITUTIONAL democracy is NOT mob rule, and that is the whole point he is making here.

That's why the American system has a constitution, to put well defined limits on the will of the majority. The idea is to gain the advantages of a democracy -- by giving the people SOME voice in how we will be governed -- without the excesses of mob rule.

I don't agree with Clinton on everything, but on this particular point he is exactly correct.

[Smaug84]

A constitutional republic still caters to mob rule, the difference being that it's slower at enacting laws to cater to the mob, then the mob itself would be. Which in turn allows for the mob's demands to be dispersed since many lose interest before any change in enacted.

Let's take abortion as an example, the US Constitution still enables mob rule to happen...the difference is that none of the states of started the constitutional amendment process, of which I'm thankful.

[classicallady]

I would run some study in Greek...demo-cratia....

[Smaug84]

I'm pretty sure that it's demos kratia.

[classicallady]

And you are absolutely right...Mispelling..mistyping.­..Parakalo

[indiasucksalways]

Grope anyone lately Bill?

[classicallady]

What a mature comment...LOSER.

[coupcoupTV]

I think you missed the point.

[adzug]

hes talkin bout the losers of elections and loners those who are in a society but dont wanna participate politicly. its not a shot at ppl.

[LokiClock]

@adzug That's a narrow interpretation. Laws decide how we're able to live our lives. The candidates merely miss a job. When an issue is decided, the majority can decide how to treat those who have different morals and ideas from them.

[adzug]

@LokiClock well we have laws to protect minorities rights. if im interpreting your statement right. and im not sure what you mean by morals? what your point is

[LokiClock]

@adzug My point is that he's not just talking about elections. Minority rights are a defense against majority rule, and that concept has greater impact on our lives than an election. The context for his statement is the idea that we can make a nation democratic by having them hold elections. Democracy is good, therefore elections are good, therefore all nations should have elections. Clinton's saying why democracy is good, and that it's more important to give the world that than a mechanic.

[adzug]

@LokiClock ok thanks for the conciseness of your note cheers

[newutubejunkie]

Well Said, Former President Bill Clinton. I salute you on this one.

[thetimman00]

Bill Clinton has it right here, but his legacy is NAFTA( and not zippergate).

[coupcoupTV]

Most presidents are at their most profound after they leave office. Shame.

[ElectricityNow]

Well said.

[seamoremonster]

Nicely put Bill. It is about tolerance and the rights of the minorities as well and having diversity. Something to be proud of.

[IndividualAutonomy]

@seamoremonster

Tolerance and diversity of what?

[humanist7117]

He has it right!!

[uzijohn]

America is a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy also known as "Mob Rule"

Our countries founders despised Democracy and wrote essay's condemning it,

The French revolutions butchery is the expected result to this form of governance

Moreover our form of government will not! work for a dishonest and or deceitful populace, Including ourselves, But Russia being a prime example

People will not risk they're capital in a corrupt economic system with no real legal protections

[thegreatpadaxes]

thanks for saving me the trouble of saying this.

[CharBroiled04]

Brilliant.