BBC: Abandoning Dark Matter Theory? Most of Our Universe is Missing

[Forseti6288]

This reminds me of the god of the gaps argument. We don't understand what is going on here so "Dark matter did it" =P

[viswagsena108]

SUB;Evolve new Concepts-Cosmology vedas Interlinks

search beyond Dark-mode concepts. Tamasoma Jyothirgamaya

Lead Kindly Light.I even requested ESA groups- Mission approach with a report to change or evolve new concepts. Vidyardhi nanduri

[DeuteriumDrones]

Isn't Dark Matter just all the HELIUM that's emitted from the 200 Billion stars located in the center of a spiral galaxy? Stars burn hydrogen resulting in helium. And the helium dissipates throughout Space, keeping everything else afloat. Just my thoughts.

[gaynorglowellxsingh]

Dark matter and dark energy is the byproduct of the matter that falls into black holes, and black holes convert mass (plasma) into it's basic elemental forms and flavors, and CERN is a reversed engineered black hole.

[xrisxs]

if your doing something to find nothing then you will never find it. if your doing nothing to find something then it will never happen. but if there is nothing you can do about any something then there is your first chunk of dark matter that you just created.

[Ettenyl56]

When terms like "holy cow of Newton," or the "orthodox" view of cosmology is used, then it take on religious implications. When we must put our "faith" in dark matter, dark energy, black holes, things that have never been proven or observed, and cannot even be mathematically demonstrated, then we know that the "orthodox" view of cosmology has, indeed, become a religion.

[ScienceIsKnowledge]

@Ettenyl56

Sorry to burst your religious bubble but.....

Black holes have been observed. Relativity predicted them and hubble has also directly observed them.

No faith required there. It isn't faith when its conclusive.

[spacecowboy95]

@Ettenyl56 Wow, you're an idiot. No physicist is certain that DM exists, they are simply suggesting that something is missing from the current model according to the latest observations. Many standard particles were discovered in this way, first by math and prediction, then by experiment and observation. If it was faith then scientists wouldnt be working thier butts off trying to find this stuff.

It's really, truly sad how ignorant people like you are of the scientific method.

[Ettenyl56]

@spacecowboy95 How much substance can your own argument hold when you must begin with a personal insult? Is anyone to believe that you, yourself, are somehow the brightest person here on this venue and are thus qualified to determine who's an idiot because they may see differently than you? Do you believe yourself to be the standard for wisdom? Learn how to spell. It's "their" not "thier". And you are having trouble with reading comprehension since you misinterpreted my point altogether.

[mayagaworska]

Well this is not that big of a 'sin' as he portraits. Since nobody knows what Dark matter is, it is also not that outrageous to think maybe there is no Dark Matter.

Then, something else must be wrong with calculations - see the dark matter hypothesis is only there so 'calculations' we have would be correct.

In any way, his task is Nobel as who knows, maybe he is right. I hope in the world of science we at least still peruse truth and honor for humanity, not pity "I"better because of "my" theory

[DeArmeStudent]

If time is relative, then maybe gravity is also relative?

[menthol5]

I wish I knew more. Could the "gravitational lensing" be due to black holes? I do not know enough to make an intelligent question to explore with research.

[sbergman27]

Milgrom needs to keep up with the developments in his field. He claims that DM has not been observed. And yet it is easily and regularly observed directly through gravitational lensing observations, as well as through analysis of the motions of, e.g. galaxies. For a prof, he seems surprisingly ignorant of these things. His MOND theory might still have a shot at explaining DE. But after watching this, my confidence in him has fallen. Solving that puzzle requires having a grasp of current data.

[inbard0]

@sbergman27 DM is not directly observed. What we observe is just a phenomenon that mankind isnt able to explain YET. What your so-called dark matter is, is just a hazy concept of something that might explain it. There is no current data and no current theory capable of even saying, what dark matter could be consist of.

[sbergman27]

@inbard0 What a very 1995 thing to say. DM most certainly *is* directly observed. Gravitation is as valid a way of observing as is EM. *Read about the Bullet cluster.* We actually have accurate 3D maps of the stuff. Part of it is known to be MACHOs. But most is not. It is likely a particle or particles similar to a neutrino, which interact with baryonic and other DM only through Gravity, and possibly the Weak force. Particles from Supersymetry are candidates. Where have you been the last decade?

[inbard0]

@sbergman27 I am right here ;) You just said it. There are ideas and concepts (!) of what DM COULD be, or might be with a certain chance. You used the words "likely", "similar", "candidates" and this is exactly what i wanted to say. I know that we do observe DM, have cards and know much about their effects and so on. But we are still facing sth that mankind failed to explain...YET! Of course, there is "Dark Matter" and "Dark Energy", but i guess those are most certainly just temporarily labels.

[inbard0]

@inbard0 i mean "maps" not "cards"... damn german ;D

[sbergman27]

@inbard0 Some people take a strange "We know nothing!" attitude about DM. WMAP data supports CDM particles for DM. But while that tells us we are looking for a neutrino-like particle or particles with much more mass... we can't say for sure what they are. But IMO DM is largely classification and accounting. Now... Dark Energy represents a *far* more fundamental mystery than DM. And Milgrom's MOND *might* still end up having some bearing on that issue. I doubt it, though.

[4Dmetricology]

The modification of the laws of physics he is talking about only amounts to a slight change to gravities strength over any distance. Instead of decreasing by the square of the distance it would change by less than the square of the distance over very long distances. The whole dark matter/energy notion has been preferred over this "small" modification.

[sbergman27]

@4Dmetricology MOND theories cannot explain the Bullet Cluster data. DM is now solidly part of the observational data, and is no more mysterious than, say, neutrinos. MOND theories could still possibly explain DE. We'll see.

But why do you conflate the 2? DM and DE are *completely* different topics.

[4Dmetricology]

@sbergman27

I find DM and DE compelling assumptions. (I "believe" they exist)

And the relative amounts of the two are not completely diff. things.

Also not astrophysicist, unfamiliar with veracity of bullet cluster conclusions.

But I do know that astrophysical science has a away of changing over time...no pun intended?

[sbergman27]

@4Dmetricology They do relate in that the ratio of mass vs DE in the Universe determine the expansion curve. I've noticed that some commenters don't seem to know the difference, so I quiz. Note that while we used to (1980s) have only one reason to believe in DM (star motions within galaxies), and predicted it based upon that, we now arrive at the same conclusion via multiple different types of observations and lines of reasoning. The existence of the mass is fact. Identification is what remains.

[JoachimderZweite]

This is science - there is no "I think this or I think that" There is only what is theorized and then proven. Proof - that's the magic. I want to find proof of dark matter.

[sbergman27]

@JoachimderZweite Where do people get the idea that we haven't actually observed Dark Matter? Look up the Bullet Cluster. Read about *both* its mechanical dynamics, and about what gravitational lensing observations reveal. It is difficult to conceive of a demonstration more convincing. But anyone who requires yet more evidence should then proceed to observations of the motions of galaxies, in general. Don't be fooled by people claiming that we "just don't know". DM is as real as Uranus.

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

@JoachimderZweite i agree

[winter32842]

I believe general relativity is not right. Quantum mechanics is more accurate. I believe one day, people will derive the equations of general relativity by different means using quantum equations. We already know that general relativity laws and equation are modified version of energy laws.

[Tapecutter59]

Typical crackpot, starts off by attacking everyone else working on the same problem as greedy grant chasers and then claims he is going to overturn some fundemental idea such as Newton's laws. Nowhere does he offer anything but snide remarks and personal opinion.

[gswanson]

Is this a "free hot video clip"? Why does the BBC have to put that in their tags to attract views? An old man talking about physics doesn't strike me as particularly hot.

[gaynorglowellxsingh]

I have a question. Their seems to be a lot of mass thats missing from our universe. We look for all of the possable ways that could explain it. Isin't radiation mass, it's accelerated protons, neutrons, electrons, photons and maby even down to the quantum level. Do we calculate this as mass in the missing mass theory.

[pouielarker]

dark matter was just made up. its doesnt exists. if its unexplainable it is best to leave it that way, not everything has to have a theory behind it. things work because they work, whats so hard to understand?

[hrbear]

@pouielarker Well, isn't it an enigma? While dark matter has gravity, and also it keeps a highest persentage in the universe than ordinary matter does, don't you have a question, why not to be some dark matter here on Earth creating some gravitational anomalies? Then if you put a wight of 1 Kg in the scale today, and the same Kg in the same scale tomorrow, why not the scale show you some difference say 1.2 Kg just because a dark matter object surround by accident?

[GregGirardin]

@hrbear it wouldn't work that way. Dark matter doesn't participate in the electromagnetic force, so it couldn't "push" against a scale.

I suppose it there were earth sized contiguous chunks of dark matter floating around the solar system at slow speeds, we would see anomalous gravitational effects, like unexpected orbits or tidal forces or whatever.

[wordavee]

@pouielarker

Dark matter wasn't "made up", it is a hypothesis to explain the missing mass in the universe.

If we can find it, it may not exist and maybe someone will come up with a better idea or discovery some day, but if everyone said "leave it that way, it works because it works" about things we don't understand, I doubt we'd have any technology more complicated than a bow and arrow.

[Koujinkamu]

@wordavee So if it's more than "made up", why then call it a "hypothesis"?

[gaynorglowellxsingh]

The reason mass is missing from our universe is because of black holes, and dark matter is the byproduct of mass that falls into black holes. See Video.

[hrbear]

@gaynorglowellxsingh In an other documentary they said that even if the Milky Way or Andromeda, or...other galaxies have a lot of black holes inside them, including their central black hole, this is not enough to solve the problem of the missing matter. They propably mean that the gravity of these black holes is just not enough.

[gamesbok]

@hrbear NO. If the mass of the galexy was concentrated in the central black hole then the speed distribution of orbiting stars would tail off as the radius increases. This doesn't seem to happen, which means the extra gravity isn't in the centre. This is why they talk of 'halo' objects.

[anthonyhollingsworth]

this guy is just another MOND supporter so its a pretty hypocritical statement really as astronomical observations are the only "evidence" for MOND (or TEVES), these theories would not exist otherwise. Dark matter is a favored theory because it would be the missing piece of several entirely separate puzzels, not just the astronomical observations of too much gravity in the universe

[willieofroanoke]

Somebody was finally paying attention. It is a all too common scheme to fudge the model by adding/subtracting something to make the model work. Einstein clung to his static model of the universe adding a cosmological constant (lated admitted the biggest mistake of his life) to make his relativity theory work. M Theory is a outgrowth of String theory. Both theories "work" one depends on 10 dimensions, the other 11. Both Dark Matter & Dark Energy were added to "prove" what theory suggests..

[watercup123456]

@willieofroanoke And the Higg's Boson was also "made up" to make ALL our theories and experiments in modern physics work.

But we have no idea whether the boson even actually exists. We think it does because it works in theory (math) and when we use it in experimentation, it works, but we have not been able to verify the boson through experimentation.

We think it exists because well, we have computers, we have supercolliders. Its what experimentation tells us, for now, works but we don't know.

[WolYou]

I've read plenty of things about dark matter. I share the opinion with Prof. Milgrom. Dark matter has been provisionally inserted into the cosmos to make a model work, not because its there. Its more of a formula than a real phenomena. But time will show and time will tell.

[watercup123456]

@WolYou See this empirical proof for the existence of dark matter!!! /watch?v=YezKsgsPM24

Also see

watch?v=T6IBoa4FxvY&feature=ch­annel

Physicists have inserted the Boson to make quantum mechanics work. What other force does the professor propose to give mass to particles?

[watercup123456]

@WolYou Given new pictures of the structure of the universe, and independent models of the universe's structure with the interactions of dark matter and energy accounted for, the observation and theory match nearly perfect to show the observed filament like, or "cell" like, "neuron cluster" like structure of the universe.

In the beginning what has seemed like a cosmological fudge factor is instead the empirically evidenced footprint of something our limited senses can only barely detect exists

[hackie77]

@WolYou

TRUE INDEED !

but i wonder how a new theory would look like.

i studied Phys.

regards

[ray38montreal]

@WolYou Actually it's effects has been observed. The bullet cluster collision for one.

[HeavyMechanics]

one thing's for sure. nobody's solving this mystery in the comments section on youtube. thankfully all the smart people are too busy for that.

[WolYou]

HeavyMechanics: I wouldn't be so sure about that. Being busy doesnt mean that you are smart or you could find solutions. Most good theories came by intuition and seldom from being busy all the time.

[HeavyMechanics]

you're right, some great theories have come from taking LSD =P I don't know what I was thinking.

[sarahnewt]

well said...

[griff868686]

Simulations of MOND don't even match observations. 95% of astronomers are 99% sure MOND is BS.

[Bowenwww]

To simply disregard something because you do not have the mental capacity to imagine it - is unintellectual.

[anpurewal]

its a stinkin matter, not to be concerned with...a empty air in midst of dust storm..... unnecessary money being scammed....or time pass.....Wait till they put a new telescope in the orbit, dark matter will be gone.... Because they can make new observations to keep their astronomy careers floushing... I think hubble bubble is dying out....

[agentdarkboote]

I think dark matter makes an awful lot of sense. Why do some people think normal matter which interacts with the electromagnetic force strongly is all there is? After all, there are dozens of particles that don't interact with the other forces we know of (strong, weak and probably something I haven't heard of ignores gravity), so why couldn't there be particles that don't interact electromagnetically? Not to mention there's strong evidence that suggests dark matter DOES exist..

[BjarneLorenzen]

Mathematically Breakthrough

It is now mathematically proven that the decelerating force that affected the Pioneer probes and the accelerating force that had caused many Fly-by anomalies:

1.) Both affect the Earth (and the planets) as well, - and with full force.

2.) Automatically equalize each other (when affecting the planets).

More > science27. com > read the chapter: The Pioneer Anomaly.. Here are the key for understanding dark? metter as well. ...

[GrimmJoke]

P.S. And dont get me started on string theory!!.....sheesh...

[GrimmJoke]

Dark matter sounds suspiciously like the "ether" that most scientists thought that the stars and planets were suspended in until Einstein blew that theory away with Relativity. I personally think that the problem may have more to do with the lack of understanding of black holes and gravity than some ethereal "dark" matter or energy. It may be that the gravity of a black hole isnt the same as the gravity of a star or that its pull is greater than supposed. "shrugs"

[anpurewal]

i agree with you....

[Kenzofeis]

I bet someone got the "Dark Matter" idea whilst looking at a cup of coffee and thought "EVREKA" and voilá: "new possibilities" as the moneymonger Al Gore put it.

[poopfacemcgee19]

gravitational momentum? that real?

[SocialistDemocracy]

a relative of the electromagnetic field fools, both similar and different

[dim12trav]

Dark Matter is not really a theory it is some scientific fantasy fulfillment to explain why the universe works a certain way. There is no logical necessity for it at all though.

Plasma physics can explain those enigmas without resorting to exotic and otherwise untraceable dark matter. Plasma physics can do this in the laboratory under exacting and repeatable conditions whereas Dark matter "cannot be seen" and it is merely a thought experiment gone awry. Give plasma physics a chance first.

[thoth81]

Indeed, is it not akin to Ptolemy's "Perfect Spheres"? Ad-hoc supplementation to match observational data?

Let's strip funding from the Big Bang religious adherents and support some real research - not faith.

[IndependentSoul100]

Just because some professor doesn't like the idea, doesn't mean that its not a good idea.

Many physicists don't like the idea of wormholes purposed by Einstein, but does that mean its discovery process should be shut down? Hell no.

[DavidMTRutten]

Newton has already been tampered with. And the guy who did it has been hailed nearly everywhere as one of the greatest thinkers of all time, within a few short years.

Science loves a good shaking up, and if Prof. Milgrom can make a good case I'm sure he can sway the scientific community. If he can't, then there's no reason for him to score points with BBC viewers. Science is not driven by popular consensus, it is driven by the scientific method.

[JAGDMORDER]

So basically all of our old theories are replaced with new ones ,then those will be erased in time with "better" ones and so on and so forth.This to me equates us to not really nowing shit all ,and every thing is "just a theory".Fantastic!!.I just fvcking wasted 1:04 + time typing for NOTHING.$#&(*^$%$**^^.

[ActiveStorage]

chill out. that's why it's called life. you never know what's coming. That's the way real science should work. By writing and re-writing new, never ending theories, step by step getting a bit closer to the truth

[JAGDMORDER]

Well i am quite chilled(you should see me crazy).lol.Hopefully the search is not biased or tainted with any opinionation/beleifs(which humanity proves/breeds clearly impossible) no?.

[willingtorisk]

Bingo, the arrogance of the elite in any field is amazing. Religion, Education, Physics. All the narcissists hate admitting that one phrase, "I don't know." "we don't know."

[JAGDMORDER]

Yes- huge difference in knowing and believing.Beliefs lead to theories, knowledge leads to the truth.When dealing with the unknown or imense distances in time we can only theorize.

[DavidMTRutten]

"This to me equates us to not really nowing shit all"

You don't have to look far to see how much shit we know. Alongside our growth of knowledge (which is incredible by any standards), we've also discovered more of the things we don't yet know.

You can call this pointless. I call it progress. Before you figure stuff out, you must first realise that something needs figuring out to begin with.

Knowing you don't know something is better than don't knowing you're supposed to know it.

[JAGDMORDER]

Agreed..But you can also say that the more we figure out what we know , the more we figure there is to learn.With every 1 answer there are just 10 more questions-and those new questions can lead to different answers in the original equation, therefore voiding original theory.You are right my comment was an ill informed drunken generalization. we are learning(slowly).

[DavidMTRutten]

"With every 1 answer there are just 10 more questions"

Wasn't this one of the corner stones of the "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" book by Pirsig?

Although it may seem like we discover more questions than answers, I'm not convinced we actually are. Answers often seem more mundane than riddles which is perhaps why we award them a higher weight...

[JAGDMORDER]

"Answers often seem more mundane than riddles which is perhaps why we award them a higher weight"

^^^that sir is the most brilliant thing i have heard all day, thank you.

[Kenzofeis]

Zen... what if "With every ten questions there is one answer"?

[Sergionewyork]

Dark Matter is whatever we want it to be.... as far as there is money! hahaha

[jplate8]

dude, Newtom was da shit, yo

[paudeluttam]

by the way its Newton not newton..

Just kiddin

And i dont think he was da shit.. though he was a moody guy

[stonewallgregg]

How can you change newtons laws? dont you have to pass an amendment with a 2/3 majority? I dont think he understands the gravity of this situation

[ninadbhatt]

there are people out there who wants to start a whole new physics and even math based on totally different laws. Not that they will ever be able to prevail their ways but nonetheless they will try. And while I wouldn't vote for their theory I don't mind them trying.

[hrbear]

@stonewallgregg I think that this has to do with some constants, like the cosmological constant. Perhaps they meaning more to modify some equations rather than changing the laws.

[juxari]

@stonewallgregg Newtons's laws have been disproved over 70 years ago actually by general relativity and other more accurate theories. Try to catch up.

[TronixGuy93]

@stonewallgregg I think you have to have irrevocable empirical proof. It's not about a democratic or political process. If that were the case I could solve all of sciences problem with any number books (theories) that have been around for thousands of years.

[KnockoffNigeI]

It's a theory but not it much of one because it literally buts every thing into a black box to explain the numbers. There's also already mechanisms within the GTR that could explain the observed anomalies that gave rise to it. for example the slower relative velocities of bodies within densely populated space Einstein already explains that quite nicely thank you.

[amphimrca]

who post this shit?

[player1vladimir]

Dark matter and Newton? WTF? Newton never knowed about Dark matter...

[nhakim]

The video is right.Scientists observed that the amount of gravitational force in our galaxy is more than what can be accounted for by normal matter.Thus, scientists propose that there exists something called "dark matter" to account for the missing mass. The professor however is trying to say that dark matter doesnt exist and that instead the stronger gravitational force can be explained by changing the laws of gravity. I.e. "tempering with Newton's laws"

[player1vladimir]

Yes

But Newton laws work only on earth (in 3 dimensional space)

The universe has more then 6 dimension (we know only for 6) the teachings from Pleadians and old Aryan teachings say that there is 12 dimensions with 12 subdimension, in global 144...

Also 99,9% of universe is made of plasma not solid or liquid or gass matter...

So we don't know much about the universe...

[marsCubed]

player1vladimir, String theory proposes 10 dimensions of space and one of time. Itzak Barrs proposes a second dimension of time to add to this.

String theory is at present considered the most likely contender for a theory of everything, if you had even the most basic knowledge of physics.. however you decide to look to your religion, this ignorance. Get an education, be a human being with an active inquisitive mind. not a devotee of a painfully stupid sci fi cult. seriously

peace

[player1vladimir]

Yes i have phisics... Why so hostile? I am talking about the universe...

Btw. Barrs has also 12 dimensions now there are 12 subdimensions for every of these dimenstions...

[marsCubed]

player1vladimir, I did not wish to seem hostile, however it is clear that you are not yet focused on serious study, there are mysteries, there is mind boggling strangeness.

a photon experiences zero distance or time!

the implications are astounding. Have a look at Professor R Muller's physics lectures, they are thoroughly enjoyable and very educational too.

watch?v=6ysbZ_j2xi0

even the first lectures are worth watching as there are lots of interesting asides.

regards

[player1vladimir]

Thanks for the link

[MTheory720195]

WOW, this is a joke,

What idiot deiced to post under 2mins of this??

Such idiotic ppl posting on utube.

WHERES THE REST OF THE DOCO????

[macrossner]

where's the rest of this vid? is it unposted or renamed?

[fight3the3light]

do you think he'll use a textbook like an axe or a hammer and slay this holy cow like a slaughter house of the 80s?

let's watch and see!

[dospook]

well einstein "slay(ed) the biggest holy cow" of newton already, why not hear what this cat pulls together within his denials and acceptances.

[bastardrob]

what's the matter ?

[sutra46]

Arragh ☺ that is it?

You have like 1000 vids on doctor damn who and this is all you can post on Dark Matter documentary?