14 bis Airplane Flight Oct 2006 Santos Dumont

[icabaripto]

It's said in Brazil that when Santos Dumont suicided, 1932 in São Paulo, he was deeply depressed because of the military use that was did of his invention during WW1.

[ultramang55]

Brazilian Heroe

[agodinho64]

Santos-Dumont wanted the world to have the benefits of flight. The Wrights were only interested in lining their pockets with gold… However, it is important to note that Alberto Santos-Dumont is still considered the father of powered flight.

[brentsrx7]

@agodinho64 No, the wright brothers invented controlled flight, and the rest of the world didn't want to recognize their accomplishments so they blatantly stole their research from the patent office and built aircraft without even a whisper of recognition to the Wright brothers. The stress from trying to keep his invention from being stolen literally killed wilbur wright. Plz show some respect for their accomplishment.

[agodinho64]

Santos-Dumont and the Wright brothers differ in one very important fact. The Wrights performed all their work in secret because in true American Fashion they were in it for the money and nothing else. Their first flight was witnessed by a half a dozen people and it was never publicized at the time. Santos-Dumont on the other hand, never patented anything, and preferred to distribute the prize money among his mechanics and workers.

[brentsrx7]

So an aircraft launched off an aircraft carrier isn't a plane? is a sea plane not a plane either because it doesn't have wheels? that is ridiculous. The catapult made the takeoff shorter. The Wright flyer touched down and took off again a few times during its first flight in 1903. That's called flying. Dumonts first flight was a hopping skid. what a joke

[WAYTOPLUTO]

@brentsrx7 The Wrghit's first plane didn't have a motor. It was a glider. An airplane launched off an aircraft carrier today has a motor. It can take off on its own power. Dumont's plane had a motor and could take off on its own.

[brentsrx7]

@WAYTOPLUTO That's why their first glider was called a glider and not an airplane. In 1903, 1904, 1905 and 1906, years before Dumont's flight of the 14 bis, they flew dozens of times often for more then 20 minutes aloft. If you look at the photographs of the 1903 flight, it is quite obvious that there is an engine and spinning propellers. There are photographs and even some early video of their later flights in 04 and 05, once again years before Dumont in 1906.

[Verdelufe]

I want everybody to know what happened to me: At video Wright Brothers First Flight & Wright Brothers First Flying Machine(PBS Nova) I was denied to continue posting my comments" Comments Pending Approval & Error Try Again" This is the powerful media with their Propaganda Machine telling where you should eat your grass, is this a free country or what.Can I like G.Curtiss & Europeans aviators and dislike the Wright Brothers. Anywhere the word Wright appear I am blocked. At YT you can't complain.

[erro404]

Essa briga entre Dumont e os Wright acaba bem aqui: "Os Wrights nao tem prova de que voaram"... é muito simples!

This fight Dumont vs. Wright ends right here: "The Wrights dont have proof that they actually flew"... very simple!

no proof ! no rights ! (hahahahaha)

[joferbrasil]

Born 20 July 1873 in state of Minas Gerais, Alberto Santos Dumont moved to Paris in 1891 but never forgot his birthplace. He soon began experimenting with flying, and designed his first balloon, the Brasil, in 1898. He later built and flew 11 dirigibles, including the prize-winning Number 6.

[joferbrasil]

He flew his first airplane, the 14-bis, on October 1906, the first aircraft to take off and land without any external assistance. His many other contributions to aviation included his 1907 Demoiselle, the precursor to modern light airplanes. He returned definitely to Brazil in 1931 and died in 1932.

(American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics AIAA)

[joferbrasil]

Your "Ctrl C/Ctrl V" technique or "Copy/Past strategy aren't going to change two facts:1- Dumont was the first man to make fly an object heavier than air by itself (or self-propelled)

2- Dumont could be called a "sportsman", that's why have no records of patents for his inventions.

3- I'm proud causeDumont wasn't so selfish.I think my ppl don't need lies or lobby to make us proud from Dumont. But for ur brainwashed-filled with fast-food/CNN ppl, being the #2 must to be very hard!

[joballoon]

Let americans play like children thinking that they've invented the airplane.

It makes them felling good, mainly now they are experiencing a total decadence in all aspects, decadence everywhere... non stop n endless.

PS : Even Bill Clinton said the Wrights event is a hoax and the history must be fixed to make justice to the real inventor,

SANTOS DUMONT!

The smart brazilian who's invented the watches too.

[spitfireJEJ]

When and where did Clinton state this? Was it published anywhere? Incidentally, the "smart Brazillian" did not "invent the watch" - by which I assume you mean wristwatch. That was the inventon of Monsieur Cartier to assist Santos Dumont during the latter's lighter than air experiments. It just goes to show how careful and precise you have to be with your facts. So again, what precisely did Clinton say?

[agente9009]

@spitfireJEJ...Fuck you!!! You is american lie. The film american of trip to the moon shows the delay in communication at the lunar distance is real time. Is an farce american similary the Wrights.

[spitfireJEJ]

Your ill-mannered inarticulacy does you no credit. And for your information, I am not American. Do you have any rational argument or documentary proof to support your assertion that the Wright's tests from 03 to 06 all failed? There were for instance many independent witnesses at Simm's Station in 05. Or is the only thing you can bring to the table invective and bigotry fuelled by your irrational hatred of anything which does not share your own nationality?

[agente9009]

Fuck you American of shit. The communication between the earth and a satellite lasts more than two seconds. Tell me how the communication between the earth and moon is a second? The film shows communication the trip to the moon in real time. Staging of shit made by Americans. Lies such as: Trip to the moon, weapons in Iraq, inventor Thomas Edison's light bulb, Wrights invented the airplane in 1903 .. Fuck you liars. Goal your lies in anus.

[agente9009]

If you were American would be right to defend their country. If not, their situation is worrying. Means that it is a toady of americans, a suck-penis. The Wright never flew in 1903, 1904 and 1905, just soared. In the letter to Ferber did not mention anything. And to try to sell the glider pro U.S. government failed to prove the flight. In 1904, Ohio was an embarrassment. Therefore are proofs that Wrights never flew, historical evidence. Your suck-penis American.

[agente9009]

I rude? Really? No need to be educated with sycophants U.S.. A gang who are judged superior to other people. This time is fucked Americans ... who invented the airplane was Santos Dumont.

[agente9009]

@spitfireJEJ .....I Nationalist? The Americans ride an entire theater to pretend a trip to the moon, and I am the nationalist? Fuck you fag! Nationalist are the Americans who try to be superior in all. They go to the extreme by using lies.

[agente9009]

@spitfireJEJ ....The lie of the U.S. is so blatant that there are videos on YouTube flight of the Wright 1908, but the legend is "flying in 1903. Strategy for American children and the world grow up believing the American lie. Answer me, the truth needs to dirty tricks? There is video of 1903, only one photo, with alleged flew of "Flyer I" touching the ground. This artimanha prova all American lies.

[warp13]

@agente9009_there are NO movies (video wasn't yet invented) showing the Flyer in 1903. There are photos, plural. taken of the four flights of that day and photos of before and after. Get your facts correct before you, as you do often, put your foot in your mouth.

[junglemanlawyer1]

@warp13 The "Flyer" did not "fly" even after US$1.2 million was used in the project. And if you look right on your screen you can see the Dumont's plane actually flying.

[warp13]

@junglemanlawyer1-No what I see is a modernized Dumont 14 Bis with a modern powerplant and a modern propeller and modernized controls, all of which the original DID NOT have, do you agree? At least with the 2003 exact replica, it was as it is defined a "REPLICA", down to the fabric. And it did fly, see my posted videos. It moved under its own power, level ground, took off and was controlled, and landed undamaged. It was a the next wtep towards a practical flying machine.

[junglemanlawyer1]

@warp13 Nobody can force you to see what you don't want to..........

[warp13]

@junglemanlawyer1-so you agree that ignorance is bliss? and that you can be blind to the facts? You can shoot of your mouth for the sake of historical accuracy and condemn the truth based on false nationalism and pride. Let's us look at reality and see what an unbiased eye sees-see that updates. Now look at the AE Wright Flyer, that was built for the 100th anniversary. It was an exact replica. It did not fly on the 17th 2003, due to problems with engine and weather.

[junglemanlawyer1]

@warp13 You didn't get the point. You are the one who doesn't want to see the truth.

Therefor, nothing that I say will change your opinion, cause u don't want to see it!

[warp13]

@junglemanlawyer1-I was there as where thousands. It was a horrible rain. The fabric was damp and the engine had a misfire. If this was the weather on Dec 17th 1903 the Wrights would not have tried to fly, but since this was an anniversary-an attempt had to be made. If you look at the videos I have posted, these where trial flights of the same machine-different day-better conditions. The flights are what can be expected for 1903-it was a step forward.

[agente9009]

You're not American? So is a jerk who does not think for yourself. Being an idiot believes in the arms of Iraq, the trip to the moon, that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb and the Wright flew in 1903. If flew because they no proved to the U.S. government when they tried to sell the Flyer I? Why have not shown to reporters in Ohio in 1904? Wright explained: No wind. Ha, ha, ha! Dumont with through himself, subjugated the force of gravity and lifted flight, without wind strong and catapult

[warp13]

@agente9009-So there were no trips to the moon in 1969 because there were no arms in Iraq in 2001??? You are a VERY logical person, I can see what types of information filters you tap into. If anything the US Gov, which lost many thousands of dollars, by backing Langley, would have tried to squash the Flyer, you should reread your history.

[agente9009]

@spitfireJEJ 'm rude? Really? I do not need to be polite to you, which is a suck-penis of Americans. The U.S.A. is country a liar and hypocrite. Cry to the world that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb, the Wrights airplane, but the real inventor is the Englishman Joseph Swan, and inventor of the airplane is Santos Dumont. Well, before I forget: Enter the your lie in the anus, son of a bitch.

[spitfireJEJ]

Your standard of reply makes it abundantly obvious how little notice we should all take of you. I shall leave you to your comfort zone of bigoted ignorance - it is obvious that in every sense of the phrase you are a hopeless case.

[agente9009]

@spitfireJEJ ...I Answer according to the profile of the person. Sycophants similar to you only deserve such treatment. Ignorant is one who believes the lies imposed by the U.S.. Are you the type of idiot who believes that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb and the Wright Brothers flew in 1903, and that there weapons in Iraq. Therefore, the only lost cause here is you. And you do me a favor? Fuck you alienated.

[warp13]

Didn't take off? They sold machines to the US Goverment and licenses to many companies.

[programaradartve]

brasil-sil-sil!

[dctinin]

The plane does not need to be catapulted, Santos Dumont made the first flight with witnesses in front of a judging commission qualified!

[Dogfather95]

Dumb Beaner. An Airplane is powered by propellers, jets, or an engine. Was this aircraft powered by an engine? No, so it is officially classified as a glider

[abhronsius69]

This plane was, in fact, powered by a piston engine. Bealive it or not.... a V8 engine.

[joselucasdenada2008]

Especialistas em engenharia aeronáutica dizem que mesmo com a tecnologia atual, seria impossível decolar com um avião motorizado com 12 Hp. O Flyer pesava, segundo os próprios Wright, 340 kg. E mesmo gastando no projeto 1,2 milhões de dólares, a réplica do Flyer não voou MESMO!

Enquanto isso vemos as réplicas do 14-BIS e do Demoiselle voando maravilhosamente.

"Uma mentira dita mil vezes, torna-se uma verdade". - Joseph Goebbels, ministro da propaganda de Adolf Hitler.

[Hoosdjssfsda]

Santos Dumont father aviation :D

[MimoGlider]

@Hoosdjssfsda aprende a falar burro

[pumapreto]

I lived in Brazil, live in the USA for 35 years. I know the freedoms in the USA are greater than in Brazil. for one, Brazil is the only country that voting is mandatory so that gives you an idea. In the other hand, no one has proved that the Wrights truly flew on 12/17/03. this history presented in American schools is speculative.

[riobabilonia]

pumapreto, that's an empty example, cause u know u can't find anything else "Brazil is the only country that voting is mandatory" meaning if u do not vote u have to fill up a piece of paper & that's it, nothing else.What else?????just one empty example????

[warp13]

Speculative to simple minds. Those who doubt suffer from false nationalist pride and just can't admit it.

[pumapreto]

I am not even a Brazilian! just reflect that there is much more info out there than what you have seen in American history books. A tidbit but not the only thing to refute the Wrights claims:: why would Alpheus Drinkwater say that the Wrights only glided on Dec. 17 1903 and flew only in 1908? why is this piece not told in history classes? no one is trying to fight the American way of life or achuievements vbut this Wright stuff is a total farce!

[warp13]

Have you read any biographies on the Wrights? I know that he is mentioned in the American ones, perhaps not the Brazilian ones. Drinkwater was NOT present he was watching a submarine for the navy. How could someone not present as an eyewitness be of any value to whether or not they flew? There were other eyewitnesses and photos and data that support their claim. Your not Brazilian, you have a lot of "Latino" videos on your page, you must have some motivation.

[pumapreto]

By the way, your observation about my ''latino videos'' as motivation to defend Santos Dumont is simple-minded and shows that you do not understand that today's world should have surpassed nationalistic views. I could be born in the USA but be familiar with Chinese culture and so on. This surely is an anti-thesis of nationalism. But let's stick to the subject at hand!

[warp13]

No it doesn't, it shows the obvious. You on the other hand show the simple mindedness, by criticizing American biographers for their omitting Drinkwater when for your information he IS mentioned but since he was NOT there his opinion is null. You have not answered that, what is your motivation, why do you condemn American biographers and historians when I can show you where Drinkwater IS mentioned, have you read Dr. Crouch's book? Have you read any books on the Wrights?

[pumapreto]

Are you saying that the NY Times lied about the Dec. 17, 1951 article?

[warp13]

No I am not saying that. I have not read the article, I do question why the Times would consider Drinkwater a reliable source since he was NOT present at the time. In the same token should I call Scientific America small minded for calling the experiments of the Wrights a "hoax" in 1905? I don't because at that time, people didn't really understand what a flying machine was and how it should work. The men who were present saw something that had never happened before.

[warp13]

You say that you are not Brazilian and yet you favor Latino culture and defend a Latino aviator, I can put two and two together. Who are you trying to fool?

[pumapreto]

There you go again with your foolish nationalism! I defend Santos Dumont based on facts! I do research S.D. in the Library of Congress, Smithsonian, and NYC Public Library.

I also defend all the positive aspects of the USA, which are many, and do not care if the opposition is Brazilian or any other nationality. You should come out of your cocoon...

[riobabilonia]

Latino is the way the old rednecks

called people they thought were"latim"(USA only world, if you u use this

world overseas, u'll be called an ignorant).Makes no sense in Brazil,

where germans,jews,black,indian,ital­ian,spanish,portuguese,north-a­mericans,

japanese,arabics immigrants live.

[riobabilonia]

sorry about my English, I allways see the mistakes just after I typed, hehehehe, by the way, I'm not "latino", whatever that means...

[warp13]

I didn't say that you were, as far as trhe definition,I didn't invent it, nor is it incorrect to use it, look it up!

[riobabilonia]

I'm almost calling you an Eskimo, but I'm very nice and I'll not do that...

[warp13]

I don't live that far north, but it is cold enough.

[warp13]

Brazillian-No that's what you see America as being, America is where you have the rights and freedoms to go as far as you like. It's not be the best, it's strive to obtain the best you can. By the way the Wright's didn't invent the Aeroplane, they invented a means of control, get your facts stright before you go shooting you mouth off.

[riobabilonia]

Have you been overseas, have you been arested anywhere out there: ALL WESTERN countries have much more freedom then the USA. I've nothing against people from the USA, but the reality is that they had a hard time dealing with what patriots call freedom...Michelle from Indiana is right here by my side and she totally agrees.

[warp13]

Rio-Yes I have been overseas and I have always lived by the rule "while in Rome do as the Romans." I enjoy the divesity of culture and I am apaled by people who catagorize an entire nation based on their own shallow views. I don't any of the people that you speak about, I enjoy my freedoms, my right to vote. Have you ever been to the USA?

[riobabilonia]

yes, I lived for 5 years in California,in San Diego,CA, pacific beach (missouri street), studied at UCSD and in Irvine,CA, studied at UCI. I know Nevada, New York and Florida too. Since 1985 I travelled lots of times to the US, it's easy to rent a car(great freedom there), at that age I liked junkie food, not now...good place to travel. I also learn to fly at Palomar Airport, Carlsbad, CA, cheaper license then in Brazil.But I don't like to fly, that was a mistake.I still got my logbook.

[warp13]

Well that's great so you took advantage of the US and now you bash it, we appreciate people like you. Why don't you do all that in your country.

[fernal2007]

Santos Dumont,the "real" and the eternal father of aviation.

[warp13]

fernal-keep repeating it, i know you need to in order to believe it.

[agente9009]

Because is an farce ... Flying is my friend take off and land by themselves. Wright brothers are a farce of 1908, with a picture and no witnesses.

[warp13]

agente-Here is were you are wrong:

1. They did take off and land "by temselves" they were unassisted and were on level ground.

2. There were witnesses.

3. Unlike today not everyone had a cell phone with a camera like today or even a basic camera, IT WAS 1903 do you realize that?

4. IT was 1903 NOT 1908.

Maybe a trip to your local library is in order to recheck your facts.

[agente9009]

No dear, you are who is wrong not the Wrights flew in 1903, just did some tests with a glider failed. In 1908 when it achieved some results in the project came to announce fraud, saying it had flown in 1903. And that argument is silly that a cell phone? Dumont also did not have cell phone in 1906, but invited all of the press to film his great achievement. Because the Wrights did the same? I answer, the Wrights never flew in 1903.

[warp13]

I wouldn't consider a aircraft with a MOTOR to be a glider, but then again your the expert?

In 1903 unlike 2009, not EVERYONE had the capability to record movies-we're lucky that the Wrights had a camera and whee diligent to take as many photos as they did.

I notice that you mention NOTHING about the years of 1904 and 1905, I suppose all of those photos and all of the data and all of the WITNESSES. don't count?

[agente9009]

Photos are fragile evidence. In 1917, Elsie Wright (look, name a liar) and Frances Griffiths produced photographs of fairies in the garden. The photos were considered authentic by experts, a blur of a fairy indicated that she was moving during the exposure of 1 / 50 or 1 / 100 seconds. But it was a lie, the fairies were paper cutouts set in the bushes, swaying in the breeze. The photos of 1903, 1904, 1905 and 1908 are not reliable evidence. Neither are reliable the Wrights.

[warp13]

Faking a fairy=easy. Faking a Flying machine=hard. Also to take into consideration the fact that MANY people saw the Wrights flying in late 1904-1905. Also, the machine copied by Mark Dusenberry, based on the 1905 Flyer III-flies. If the Wrights faked all of their photos then in 1908 they would hav ehad nothing and the FAI and the world would not have been bothered with them-instead once they flew, the world followed their lead-aircraft could actually turn, thousnads wanted to see.

[warp13]

Contrary to what you think or feel the photos from 1903-1904-1905-1908 are VERY reliable evidence that the Wrights flew. There is substantial substance to the photos as far as data and an actual working prototype to support it. Wind tunnel tests have validated their data as well as replicas-I can't really say anymore, just accept the facts-read some newspapers from the period. Read their work and theories.

[agente9009]

There is no immediate success. The glider the Wrights, 1903, 1904 and 1905 failed in tests. The photos show large leaps, and there is no way to evaluate the distance. In 1908, after observing the 14 bis, the Wrights learned how to fly and readjusted the Flyer. Today certifies that the Flyer has aerodynamics and fly in some situations.

[warp13]

yes there is read their data in their notebooks and look at the pictures, you can get an idea. Also Mark Dunsenberry has flown a replica pretty far, not just a jump, have you watched the videos, 2005, 2006 and 2007.

[agente9009]

Of course, the Flyer was modified in 1908 and flew in some situations. Previously, in 1903, 1904 and 1905 failed the tests, the Flyer just jumped. So were never made public the tests, only in 1908. The project failures are still seen today in the replicas. Being a powered glider flying with only wind and catapult.

[warp13]

The 1908 had to carry two people of course it was modified. The 1903 Flyer was a first step, however the FUNDAMENTAL of what a flying machine should have didn't change when comparing the Flyer I to the Wright Flyer A. As the flew they were learning what worked and what didn't, but over all the concept remained the same. Do you know the difference betweena glider and a powere aircraft? You say the 1903-04 and 05 machines were gliders and yet the had engines and were capable of sustained flight.

[agente9009]

Normally an delta wing has no motor. But some have engine. A delta wing is still a delta wing with an engine or not. Similarly, a glider is still a glider with an engine or not.

[warp13]

I don't agree with what your saying, both have wings but the airframe for a glider is different from that of a conventional aircraft. A glider does not have a motor, it is towed into the air or launched off a hill. If your talking about a hang glider, than you have a different type of flying machine all together. The 1903-04 and 05 were not hang gliders just because the pilot was not enclosed if that is your comparison.

[warp13]

How is 852 ft a jump? How is flying for 24 miles a jump? That's what you'sd like to make it into because you like to distort the facts, just as many Dumont followers do-can't accept truth so you people change it. "And flew in some situations', It flew many notables, they felt it was safe. How many distingished guests flew on the 14BIs? Answer=NONE.

[agente9009]

Dumont liked to experiment and 14-bis was an experience. Dumont played with the laws of physics would not make a 14-bis to carry several people. The 14-Bis was his experience, so do not even patented Dumont. See ironic that the 14-Bis was an experience and flew, and was a project flyer and jumped from 1903 to 1908 when it finally flew.

[agente9009]

Which of these facts I distorted? The failure of the tests in 1903, 1904 and 1905? The alleged flight, without a technical committee? The notes made by themselves? The testimony of lay witnesses? Measures of height and distance, noted by themselves? The results presented only in 1908, assigned to 1903? The Flyer flight after the Wrights observed Dumont fly and modify the project in 1908.

[warp13]

So according to your reasoning an invention is fake unless there is only validation by a "technical committee"? When an invention is in the beginning stages of development, the inventor should have this committee present otherwise all of the data and is faked? Even though this data has subsequently been validated? The Wrights proved with their data that Smeaton was wrong and that revised. They also rebuilt their wings and designed props that have been measured to 85% efficient.

[agente9009]

This is American propraganda my son. Trip to the Moon also has the logbook data, dates and tests. Also photos and movies. But the fraud was discovered, the film shows the flag swinging in the breeze. Wind on the Moon? Likewise the Flyer never flew in from 1903 to 1905, the results of 1908 were attributed to 1903. The man flew for the 1st time in 1903, made an extraordinary, and the Wrights did not show the world? Why? I say, because it was a lie.

[warp13]

There is no "wind" on the Moon, it was torsion. Check your facts. I can't help your jealous feeling towards America. All of the hoax theories about the Apollo landings have been proved to be false. It is one thing to collect data, it is another when that data can be validated by an independent party-such is the case both for the Wrights and the Apolllo project.

[agente9009]

Envy of America? Never! It is a country of liars. The trip to the moon is a hoax. In the video the flag trembles with the wind clearly. The communication between the astronauts and on earth is going on in real time. What simulation pathetic! The distance between the Earth and the Moon would provide a delay in communication. This is not a theory, it is a fact (recorded on video), and everyone can see.

[spitfireJEJ]

The delay in communication at the lunar distance is all of one second. Check your facts rather than posting fatuous drivel.

[agente9009]

After Sir Joseph Wilson Swan and Heinrich Göbel create the lamp is easy for a american thief plagiarizing. After flying Dumont in 1906, and showed how it's done, it's easy for two american thieves in 1908 (with photos and test scores of 1908) claim to have flown in 1903 (tests 1903, 1904 and 1905 failed, the only Flyer flew past adjustments in 1908). Thus, my friend, it is easy to be hailed as the inventor.

[agente9009]

It is a custom of inventors E.U. plagiarizing. Thomas Edison stole the projects of Nicolas Tesla, and the incandescent lamp Sir Joseph Wilson Swan (patent 1878) and Heinrich Göbel (1854), (Edson just perfected) and is now hailed by Americans as the "inventor of the lamp". And the crooks Wright appeared in 1908 with photos saying that flying in 1903.

[warp13]

Yet you consider that the faked all their data, made it up from 1899-1907, just to copy Dumont and his failed concept of a Type du Wright machine? You are as much a contradiction as your flawed aviation history.Correction, They didn't observe Dumont flying, they inquired about it as a matter of curiosity.

[agente9009]

Believe in fairies, elves and Santa Claus? All tests of 1903, 1904 and 1905 with the Flyer failed. The result came only in 1908, but still with a catapult. And if the guys were the first people to fly in the world, that curiosity can have? You are a dreamer.

[spitfireJEJ]

Where precisely is your contemporary documentary support for the statement that "all flights of 03,04 and 05 failed"?Who said that and where was it published? If the Wrights "result" only came in 08 they must have developed very quickly as they were carrying passengers in public by 09 while the Demoiselle was only big and powerful enough to carry the very small and light Santos Dumont. And in any case the much touted catapult argument is fatuous.

[zionband]

@agente9009 You know what is weird in your words ? 14 Bis flight was around Eiffel Tower. The press was there. like the in the frist flight. Only a stupid could think Santos Dumont cheated all France and the world. Just because hundreds of people were there.

[agente9009]

@zionband I did not understand your words, but I can assure you: Santos Dumont was the first to fly a powered machine. Dumont flew in public and for everyone to see. Impressed the pretenders-Wrights asked that Captain Ferber an extremely detailed drawing of 14 Bis. Today, Americans say that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb (the real inventor is Joseph Shaw) and the Wright Brothers invented the airplane (the real inventor Dumont). More an lie U.S.A

[warp13]

@agente9009 -you also spread your perverted pollution here I see. Shaw invented a type of bulb, Edison perfected it. The Wrights perfected and PATENTED flying.

[agente9009]

The Wright Brothers never flew 852 meters and 24 miles in 1903, 1904 or 1905. The notes were made by themselves, with the lay witnesses, and without a committee of experts. At that time were unsuccessful, so never performed in public. Only in 1908, after modifying the project, the glider flew. The Wright said the results were 1903.1904 and 1905. Yes, "sometimes" flew ... See today's replica Flyer, virtually no flies.

[warp13]

Yes you can produce faked UFO photos, if that is your prorogative, however that was not the theirs. The 1903 photo is probably one of the best known and most scrutinized of any photo of the last century, I highly doubt that it is a fake, there where also several other photos taken that day. As far as a leap of only 2-4m, I would say that in 1903, the flew 852 ft at approx, 15 ft altitude, and in October 1905 the y could fly 100 ft for over half an hour. That's MORE than a leap.

[agente9009]

No witnesses is easy to present data and photos. Easier to present data and photos of 1908 as if it were 1903.1904 and 1905. Who stranger, in 1906, the year that Dumont flew the Wrights did nothing? I think they were on vacation.

[agente9009]

You can produce pictures with flying objects, UFOs incluse. Witnesses 1903-1905 are not reliable, rumors say that they were not sure what he saw. Were not experts. A committee will evaluate the flight. For a layman in 1903-1905 a jump of 2m height and distance of 4m, can make you think that the Flyer flew. Only in 1908, after adjustments, the Flyer flew. But still he kept jumping, (and often do not fly), as occurred with the replica on 17/12/2003.

[warp13]

As far as the witnesses being unrelibale for the 1904-1905 flights, I would say that these were prople very much like you or I and they saw a machine in the air flying. Amos Root wrote an account of this for his magazine. Dumont jumped and used ground effects.

[agente9009]

Who evaluated the flight Dumont was not himself, but a committee, the media, reporters and crowds. The project showed that the Wrights can not jump and fly. See on Youtube a replica of the Wrights formidable project, jumps like a frog.

[warp13]

Question=if 14 Bis was SO succcessful as you supporters claim,then why didn't Dumont continue to develope it???????answer=because it was an AVIATION DEAD END

[agente9009]

What question illogical ... 14 Bis was just an experience that Dumont did not patenting. He loves experiments and followed with the other experiments. Now see, the 14 bis was an experience and flew, the Flyer was a project and did not take off. How ironic.

[richardloyy]

brasil best

[billybilson]

Wright Brothers are fucking liers!!!!!!!

they suck

[fernal2007]

Wright Brothers are fucking liers!!!!!!!

they suck (2) They suck like the americans,huahuahauhauhauhauah­ua........

[billybilson]

Simply like this!! uahuaha

vlw pelo apoio à opnião!! uhauhauah

[izabeleroberto]

(continuação) Americano adora viver de "ilusões e mentiras", vide historicamente Vietnam e Iraque...

[pumapreto]

voce e alguns dete forum nao sabem debater este assunto pq insistem em falar de politica americana. se formos falar dos defeitos dos americanos, devemos falar dos nossos. ou será que o governo brasileiro nao é um dos mais repressivos e mentirosos do mundo? o aviao foi inventado por Santos Dumont e é isso que devemos debater!

[riobabilonia]

Eu odeio esses papos de que americano tem mais liberdade, e um brasileiro dizer que nos EUA existe mais liberdade????Aonde??? eu morei 5 anos na California e a minha orelha ficou vermelha de tanto escutar americano dizendo que não pode fazer nada sem uma autoridade intervir.

[warp13]

Interesting, that depends on the type of people that YOU hang around with. You came here took advantage of things that you could not get in your country and now you bash the USA typical.

[izabeleroberto]

Os irmãos Wright's "afirmam que inventaram o Avião", os brasileiros podem também afirmar que o genial Leonardo da Vinci nasceu no Rio de Janeiro, mas como brasileiro não vive de "Especulação Histórica" como americano, já que "Não Há Qualquer Registro Real e Histórico" deste falso vôo de 1903, além de ser alegado que foi realizado o vôo - (acreditem) por arremesso (sic) e não através de um motor acoplado ao suposto avião, como foi registrado pelo 14Bis em 1906, Paris.

[modelun12]

he flew in 1906 according to the page you show:

"on 21 august 1906, santos-dumont made his first attempt to fly..."

the wright brothers apparently did it in 1903, it's just no one cared about them since dumont's plane was better and he got more attention. but the wright brothers flew in 1903.

[modelun12]

the wright's first flight was less than 38 meters, so it probably why people don't give them credit. but the wright brothers flew in 1903.

[warp13]

mod-first unsuccessful attempt, I would never consider his flight a success, just a hop, their was inertia and ground effects. The 38 meters was the first of 4 flights that day, the last being 852 ft or 260 meters under full control in all 3 axis.

[vlatu]

warp13, The last flight of 1903 was 852 feet? How do you know? who measured the distance? The Wright Brothers? The witnesses? 3 lifeguards and a little boy.

[warp13]

vlatu-There is a photo, LC-W86-38, that shows the Flyer during the 4th flight, at an altitude of 10ft, about 17 seconds into flight about 250 ft from the launch rail. The argument that they fabricated a hoax was finally put to rest 100 years ago, when the Wrights flew before the world. The machine, which after wind tunnel tests and actual flights, confirm their much of what the brother say happened. The flight characteristics are within reason.

[vlatu]

warp13, I didn't suggest a hoax, but we don't have an independent source, not experts, not reporters, not judges, not aviation officials present. My point is: How do you know for sure the 1903 flight was 852 feet? why not 455, 290,620? get the point? again, we don't have an independent source. Who measured the distance? what kind of method did he used? how?

[pumapreto]

that's right! who took such measurements? the Wrights? I can claim to having been to the moon with my own rocket, but because I want to attain a patent, I will not reveal nothing but a photo.

[warp13]

And if you did claim to go to the moon and later produced a space ship that was capable of doing so with viable data that would further prove you claim than by all counts you most likely did.

[pumapreto]

yes one can prove the existence of the spaceship the day it is shown but cannot prove it existed years before without records and bonified witnesses.

come, now! this whole thing is a hoax that was officialized decades later as having been true! did any school show the December 17, 1951 NY Times article where it states that Alpheus W. Drinkwater that the Wrights had only glided that day, and that they only flew in 1908? Drinkwater was the telegrapher who relayed the 12/17/03 telegram to Dayton.

[pumapreto]

where are the proofs of the so called wind tunnel? and the wonderfully labeled LC-W86-38 undated photo proves nothing. I can produce a photo and claim to having been to the moon! let's stop trying to rewrite history! after all, the flew in public only in 1908 way after Santos Dumont!

[warp13]

The true genius of the wind tunnel was the mechanism that was used to measure the pressure on the surfaces. They were quite accurate for a "ficticious" wind tunnel as you say it is. It's existance is not up to dispute. As far as LC-W86-38 I figured that you would not understand the signifigance of this photo, only a trained eye could decifer it meaning. I doubt that the Wrights could have faked the photo as you suggest and forced many local residents to also lie about what they saw.

[eduvc123]

LOL!!! inertia???

it was the wright brother who used inertia to take off ...

I mean are you even serious...

[warp13]

You ignore the facts:14 Bis TOW 462 lb, required 50 hp, probably due to drag and inefficient propellers, the Wright Flyer TOW 745, had only 12 hp, because they knew how to get more efficiency out of their design; they worked with wind tunnel and designed better wing and air frame and propellers. One year before Dumont flew 700 ft. the Wright were flying over 20 miles. Do more research, learn about the truth.

[pumapreto]

where is the wind tunnel documentation? the Wrights never were able to obtain a heavier-than-air patent anywhere! just look fot the patents and you will find the got one for a glider! just stating their Flyer was more advanced does not cut it. let's stick to the facts! ah! there is on little bit of ''proof'' in their favor: that puny little undated photograph! gimme a break, man!

[riobabilonia]

all your information is based on "ghost documentation", and you keep claiming you are the Only one informed, and everybody else has an "opinion" not a "proof". The proof is what experts saw at that time, and they were very clear, the rest is YOUR OPINION, based ONLY in american always paid MEDIA.Revember the "chemical weapons" in Iraq?? I do.

[warp13]

rio-No it is not my opinion, it is based on facts by the leading organization of the time the FAI, you have heard of them have you? What ghost documents are you refering to? All the data is supported, the revised the Smeaton coefficient, I think that they did a pretty good job, revised lift tables and accurately predicted lift and drift for their machine. What do WMD's have to do with the Wright's? WYou are talikng about 100 years difference, but you will grasp just to dispute.

[riobabilonia]

the problem is: there is no need to dispute....it's a done deal outside the USA.

About the USA freedom, tell us the diference, can you carry a little beer at the street? Can you see some boobs on TV? Can you see some boobs on youtube??hehehe, everything is controled by authorities there, its the easiest place to get arrested for some human mistake,this freedom is to be compared to arabic,asian countries and their culture.

[warp13]

Rio-I am assured the rights as guaranteed by the Constitution as long as I don't infrige on the rights of another person. As far as carrying beer on the street, it depends on the city, most do not permit it, that is local law. As far as "boobs" on TV, that is avaiable on TV if you want to watch it if that's you thing (we have diverged from the Wright's discussion haven't we?) Can a women walk the streets in clothing of her choosing in Iran? Can people freely protest in China?

[riobabilonia]

Iran & China are Eastern contries, not Western, but that's typical, geography is not important in the US...

[warp13]

You mentioned Asian countries didn't you? Isn't China an Asian country, maybe you didn't know that?????I am quite aware of where countries are located east and west. It is interesting that you have changed the subject from the Wright to this garbage.

[eduvc123]

Wright Brothers*...

[pumapreto]

the Town of Manteo's official website mentions Alpheus W. Drinkwater as being the telegrapher who relayed the Dec. 17 1903 message to Dayton.

[warp13]

No it was Joseph Dosher who sent the telegram to Dayton on the afternoon of the 17th. It was Drinkwater who sent the "false " story to the news agencies. The Wright sent the message from Kitty Hawk weather Bureau not Manteo. Check your facts!

[lynce6]

2006?

ano passado?

Poxa se eu soubesse teria ido assistir...

Mas se foi em 1906..ai devo ter ido como outro encarnado

[bodocabdd]

Muito bom! :)

Valeu.