John 3:5 - What does Born of Water and the Spirit Mean - Bible Q-n-A

[Love6653]

Folks The Fleshly Born Part Of John 3:3-6 Is Talking About Israels Fleshly Born Into Gods Old Testament Kingdom. The Jews Were Fleshly Born into The Old Covenant Simply By There Physical Birth.This Is Why If You Do Not Rightly Divide Gods Word By The Covenants You Cannot Understand The Scriptures Or Be Saved.Mathew-John B4 The Cross CANNOT Be The New Testament.Jews Were Circumcised On The Eight Day, And Already Children Of God, But Now Must Be Reborn Of Water, And Spiritually Converted ToThe New

[Love6653]

Hey Norm What Did Jesus Say B4 The Cross About His Doctrine John 7:16 Does This Harmonize With 2 John 9-11? Jesus Said Plainly B4 The Cross He Did Not Come To DO HIS WILL John 6:38. No Wonder They Continued Only In The Apostles (JESUS) DOCTRINE After The Cross.Therefore Your Non Sense Of Mathew-John B4 The Cross Being New Testament Would Be A DAMNABLE HERESY.Galatians 1:6-9 Better Not Preach Any Other Gospel Than The Apostles. Mathew-John B4The Cross Is Another Gospel.Mathew 4:23 Mathew 19:16-26

[Love6653]

Yes Gentiles Must Obey The New Testament Gospel As Well,But They Are Not Born Again, Because They Were Dead Spiritually Under The Law Of Moses, But They Can Be Brought To Life In The New Testament Age. If Only People Would Rightly Divide Gods Word By The Covenants. 2 Timothy 2:15 Wake Up Traditional Brethren And Teach Gods Word By The Covenants. Mathew-John B4 The Cross Is The Old Testament.Mathew 5:17-18 Mathew 7:12 Acts 2-Revelation 22 Is The Complete New Testament Of Jesus. Acts 1:1-3.

[Love6653]

John 3:3-6 Is Talking About Jews Being Covenantly Reborn Again, From The Old Mosaic Covenant Kingdom From Which Was Taken From The Jew. Mathew 21:43 To The New Testament Kingdom. Notice It Sais Water Baptism And Spiritually Converted From The Law Of Moses To Jesus New Covenant Kingdom. Gentiles Cannot Be Born Again, Only A Jew Could, Because The Gentiles Were Spiritually Dead Under The Law.John 4:22 Ephesians 2:11-12.So Being Reborn Spiritually Was For Jews.

[dickiebow2003]

Can u tell me if u were raised in the C of C or if u grew up in another denomination? I grew up in the C of C, went to Lipscomb U, but grew tired of the sectarian spirit that permeates the pew & pulpit. I know your difficulty n joining the rest of the evangelical world that understands Baptism as a sacrament only. Tell me please, do we oppose your clear view of baptism just to be cantankerous and disobedient? Offer a reason why we are unable to see baptism your way if it is so very clear?

[paden981]

@dickiebow2003 I will message you.

[dickiebow2003]

Well friend, if we are going down this road let's do it - I assume you would say that you "made a decision for Christ" and then went thru the 5 steps culminating in Baptism that leads to salvation. How do you make this decision for Christ when you are "spiritually dead" prior to salvation according to Eph.2:1. And you stay dead until the Father makes you alive in v.5. If He is the one making you alive spiritually why does he need your act of Baptism as proof of what he's done? He doesn't.

[dickiebow2003]

Yes Paul baptized, it is most certainly an act of obedience, but so is communion. Clearly the verse implies that baptism is not apart of the G. that saves. If it were he would have chosen his words more carefully. Bapt. is no more efficacious or apart of the G. than the L Sup. which is a command I also obey. 2 often "bptzd n2 Christ" is interpreted literally and not figuratively. 1Cor.10:2 "and all were baptized into Moses." Should we interpret that literally? Was there water bapt.in the OT?

[paden981]

@dickiebow2003 Time out. If you agree it is an act of obiedance then why wont you take the rest of the verses associated with baptism and understand salvation is only given after and not before? I do not not know of water baptism in the old but I know every conversion account in acts has baptism and salvation after, not before. Mark 16:16 is as clear as it gets. This is not a hard concept in anyway, the Lord made this perfectly clear. Try reading every passage in the NT regarding baptism.

[dickiebow2003]

We know the Gospel is the Power of God unto salvation, and that NO ONE is saved apart from the Gospel, correct? Let's say that I preach the Gospel to you and include 10 Jumping Jacks as a requirement - you were converted; but later you read Paul say "Christ did not send me to lead people in J.Jks, but to preach the Gospel." Would you not now conclude that my inclusion of J.Jcks as a part of the Gospel was false and not truly apart of the Gospel? Read 1 Cor.1:17 and draw your own conclusion.

[paden981]

@dickiebow2003 Oh I completly agree that the Gospel of Christ has the power unto salvation. And you are right. If a man told me to do something that later an inspired apostle told me was not needed, I would agree with you. But my problem with your argument is this, while paul's main concern was preaching, he still baptized. And while it may not have been his primary concern to baptize, doesnt mean he didnt preach baptism as part of the plan of salvation. Rom. ch 6.

[dickiebow2003]

WRONG WRONG WRONG - Nicodemus, as a ruler of the Jews, and as an authority on the parchments would have understood the rabbinical method of using figurative language to teach spiritual truths. He understood that "water and spirit" did not refer to "water baptism" OR "birth water," but instead refers to Ezek 36:24-27, i.e. being born from above. Norm has the preconceived notions - Norm does not hold to systematic theology, he misinterprets Acts 2:38 and builds his false teaching out from there.

[paden981]

@dickiebow2003 So tell me why you think baptism is not essential to salvation?

[tthomaselli2]

1 person hasn't turned to The Bible.

[ApostolicGodsChild]

Amen, good teaching brother.