Climate change shouldn't be an excuse for global government

[soylentgreenb]

@ignbtd err... that should be CAN'T assign.

[soylentgreenb]

@ignbtd You can assign property rights to the fish before they are caught because you can't track them individually; that's too late.

It's true that you can charge me for the services of a water treatment plant or a beekeeper. But in the case of eco-system services, you have no ability to selectively deny me service for non-payment; everyone has the incentive to free-load off of your nature preserve, thus your incentive is to destroy it and build something you can capture the profits from.

[soylentgreenb]

@ignbtd I'd like to first point out that property rights work in a large number of applications so you don't think I'm a lefty nutter; but air-pollution is hardly the only case where they fail.

Wild fish roam vast areas of ocean the size of continents. Fishing is a massive tragedy of the commons.

A national park may be the best use for a certain parcel of land, but the value is largely non-monetary or non-monetizable(e.g. ecosystem services like crop pollination, water treatment or CO2 sink).

[soylentgreenb]

@ignbtd Some things are naturally commons and almost impossible to privatize in any meaningful way. You can't cordon off columns of atmosphere extending into the stratosphere; that air will move around everywhere, taking with it whatever it is that you put in it.

The only property-rights-like solution ever suggested to my knowledge is cap and trade, and that's pretty much universally hated by all sides.

[soylentgreenb]

The free-market folks have spent the last 30 years either going apoplectic or indulging in wishful thinking and mindless conspiracy pap instead of suggesting any good solutions.

They still haven't gotten past the denial stage. It may be possible to forestall action for years to come; but there is a heavy cost. All the deceit, wishful thinking and vacuous crap will come home to roost, you will be responsible for discrediting yourselves empowering your political opposites.

[ymonkey333]

what's wrong with a global government? c'mon you paranoid people!

[gingergiblet]

@ymonkey333

Centralize all the worlds power into the hands of a small few. That sounds like a really safe idea because never throughout human history have tyrants ever existed and weaseled their way into seats of power. It has never happened ever, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, George Bush etc. etc. never existed.

[Historyisthekey]

@ymonkey333 you are what's wrong with Britain today

[shocky2012]

you go boy, well said

[daveodo1]

//Daniel Hannan, Conservative MEP for South East England, giving a speech in Strasbourg on 25 November 2009 on attempts to turn the climate change debate into a reason for greater global governance, ever more distant from national democracies//?? What??

Dan H doesnt want greater governance. He believes in the free unregulated market. The bit off the end has been cut off.

[meggatonman]

We pump out all this stuff from our power stations, cars and factories 24/7 and I get very worried for our planet, I cant like some of these posts just look at this stuff and say "oh that's normal, dont worry about all these toxic fumes that we're emitting". That's not to say that there will be some people who will take advantage of this newer 'green' trend. These huge petrol companies and car manufacturers are putting out these adverts that look like an election broadcast for the green party!!

[CareToSeeMyMimes]

1 World goverment, more like.. "Most of the world goverment" after all.. there will always be a war going on, thats not going to change, as long as the federal reserve still exisit.

[dumpy484]

I've no problem with recognising climate change, the floods and the droughts, its the cause thats the problem. CO2 isnt a pollutant, its a part of the life cycle. I struggle to reconcile all the talk about geoengineering and mitigating climate change (i.e altering the climate) with the belief that it isnt already being done, but needs to be done to combat the inadvertant change brought about by 'CO2', which isnt a pollutant. UEA also researches geoengineering, yeah, the climategate university.

[meggatonman]

CO2 isn't a pollutant?!? Try and stay in a room full of it and see how long you last. I think if it kills animals, it's killing the planet, I see traffic and factories pumping out this stuff in vast quantities 24/7 and wonder how bad it's affecting our planet.

[dumpy484]

Search 'co2 used by growers','co2 pumped into greenhouses','co2,photosynthes­is and plant life cycle'. I too see the problems of pollution, waste, greed, profit, power and control, but come to a different conclusion than you. I'd like to see who is sitting on the patents for alternative cleaner energies.CO2 isn't the problem.

'The use of fear to acquire power has a rather old provenance, politicians from time immemorial have used that tactic, it has always been effective' - Al Gore Suspect Nation

[meggatonman]

ok, i may accept that co2 is only part of the main concern of the wider issue of human influenced climate change, we do pump far more noxious gasses out like sulphur, methane and other chemicals, we also have deforestation and sea pollution to deal with as well.

I do agree with you about the politicians getting power through spreading fear is an old technique that needs to stop.

[axe863]

@meggatonman

Youre mixing up carbon monoxide with carbon dioxide .... EPIC FAIL!!!!!!

[axe863]

@meggatonman

Were all made from carbon. Life is carbon based. Sure carbon dioxide may have nonlinear effect on climate temperatures but how the hell is it a pollutant :P

[meggatonman]

It's a pollutant when it becomes hazardous, technically it's a waste product. Again, if you stay in a room with 100% co2 and it's having a detrimental effect on the planet because of excessive amounts, i'm sure that means it's a pollutant. I acutally don't mind nuclear as a viable energy source, i think it's the way forward especially if we research fusion technology. then again having a one off construction for a windmill and having it supply free clean energy is also a good step!

[axe863]

@meggatonman

So are you proposing we go hardcore on nuclear energy. You do understand wind and solar are not viable. What will they be built with ..... lol think about that pollution ;)

[meggatonman]

I actually don't have much of a problem with nuclear....i think it could be the way of the future if we do further research into fission as opposed to nuclear fusion. I would rather build a million wind turbines and have free energy for the one off construction costs

[axe863]

How much power would be required to build these wind turbines? How much mining much there be for said resources to build that many wind turbines? It would be incredibly stupid to argue for a single form of energy. Why? Because fluctuations in their inputs are not perfectly codependent. One must engage in an efficient diversified portfolio of energy strategies!!!!

[axe863]

We must have a diversified pool which I believe must be more heavily weighted towards bio-fuels, nuclear, geothermal and hydro-power. The allocations of solar and wind power must be far less than projected unless if there are MASSIVE gains in their efficiencies. Solar is the weakest class. Its risk reduction is limited (highly codependent inputs w/ algae) and its benefit is minimal.

[JSAJunkie]

@meggatonman - I suppose Nitrogen is also a pollutant? If you stand in a room "full of" Nitrogen you will suffocate. But it makes up 70% of our air. You are a moron.

[meggatonman]

and i suppose if we pump out nitrogen at as epic proportions as we are CO2, it would also cause problems... but CO2 is far worse then nitrogen as it's ruining the planet!! even if the room is 30 or 40% co2, that would be horrible right?!?!

[daveodo1]

Where was CO2 in the 1100's? When the UK was so hot we cld grow wine up north! Then a mini ice age when we cld set up markets on the frozen river themes? Besides there has been no warming. We have globally jst had one of the coldest winters for decades.

The thing I find a shame is there r serious green issues out there that r jst ignored cause they cant be taxed. Lets get over this fraud n get on with the job.

[meggatonman]

I'm not arguing about natural climate change, of course that happens, it just so happens that we as a species are fucking up our planet. We're pumping out car fumes and coal plant waste and you don't think this is the most serious green issue?!?

[daveodo1]

cole and oil r as clean as anything else at the moment. Wind farms only work a small percentage of the time. On a house they r more effective. On mass they cant pump it far enough n wld not cause us to shut down other stations when they did wrk. In china & india they dnt have the safeguards we have in the west n stations r a problem. As for cars surveys show trees by moterways suck up a large portion of sound & environment polution but we can have them cause they only turn it into deadly C02!

[daveodo1]

However u do bring up an interesting point. We ALL want cleaner air/water. Jst the C02 bandwagon is jst that. The science (industry portion) has jumped on for billions in funding, the socialists have jumped on for more wealth redistribution, anti capitalists for the same, governments have jumped on for more taxation, the EU for more beurocracy, ativists have jumped on for revolution n green peace has been hyjacked by the lot of em! This issue is to important to be left to the left or far left.

[daveodo1]

There was a case in England in the 17th century where a guy sued his neighbour cause his neighbours pig farm was detrimental to his enjoyment of his life and his property.Thus i think Dan is right saying this issue is far to important to be left to the left. If we extended property rights to include air n let the free market do its thing then without more of beurocracy, government, globalisation, science ind complex, every town would be cleaned up with regards to polution within a cpl of years.

[meggatonman]

@daveodo1 WHAT?! that's horrable, the free market will end up charging us for the air we breath!! At least we (somewhat) elect our government and they're (somewhat) accountable to us. Your telling me we should give our breathing air and atmosphere to the companies who put us into this terrible recession?

[daveodo1]

@meggatonman The free market will charge us for the Air we breath? No 1 person/company can own the air. But that is the way we will go with climate change n carbon credits u think BP will have reduced carbon credits, while the public get their fair share? No companies like BP will carry on while u n me pay for this. Who knows maybe even with brith control or 1 child policy.

[daveodo1]

@meggatonman Which leads on to ur other point. Big companies, central & investment banks caused this recession not business. Yes thats it central banks. The free market n business didnt cause this resession. It was the unholy pact of Gov/Banks that printed money out of thin air, kept interest rates shockingly low. Creating an economy that was never there! Now they talk of more regulation? No jst use honest money n honest interest rates they nobody will be tempted with the idea of free money.

[Capnwabbit]

@meggatonman No, lead and mercury are worse, along with all the wasted energy scurrying around to keep friggin' governments happy and well fed instead of being productive...

[meggatonman]

@Capnwabbit Of course lead and mercury are bad but they're not in much gasses. We are polluting our planet with ALL this stuff, it just so happens that we pump out literally millions of tonnes of CO2 yearly and you don't think that's affecting our planet at all?? I agree the politicians need to be a bit more humble and be forced to travel like the rest of us normal people buy you cant tell me all this crap we're releasing into the air doesn't affect anything.

[Capnwabbit]

@meggatonman Yeah, the crap does, ie actual pollution, but CO2 aint a pollutant, regardless of what certain politicians may wish to call it. We could double the volume of CO2 on this planet and the only effect you'd see is more greenery. At our current rate of output it would take us a very long time though, not least because the CO2 released is absorbed again by nature. There is no proof that CO2 raises temps. None, it's just conjecture.

[meggatonman]

@Capnwabbit I can't think that we're pumping out all these MILLIONS of tonnes of CO2, which is a greenhouse gass, toxic and an acid and it's not affecting our planet for the worse. If not the CO2 then the methane and sulphur and lead that we are pumping out too. I think we are slowly killing our planet by this stuff, you cant tell me when you see all these factory chimneys and traffic jams that all that stuff is 'good' or at least normal for the environment.

[Capnwabbit]

@meggatonman You DO realise that CO2 makes up a tiny percentage of our air, and that man's contribution is just a tiny percentage of that, right?

[Capnwabbit]

@meggatonman Did you know that without CO2 you'd forget to breath? It's what triggers your breathing response.

[waluum]

Common sense at its best, from the mouth of one of Britain's greatest MEPs.

[EmilyGreene1984]

This man should be either our prime minister or the President of the US - a true rare man of integrity. The United States would benefit from this man - but sadly, they fail to listen to the warnings that ARE coming true.

[waluum]

I submit that the United States, in its unique position, already has a man who far better suits its needs: Ron Paul. But I concur on the proposal to have Hannan as your next Prime Minister.

[capierce]

This man is brilliant

[TheEbonicslover]

we've got Ron Paul here as our president. What's stopping you from announcing Daniel to be yours?

[NicosMind]

Well he would have to lead the party first. Plus David Cameron for the conservatives is a triator.

However UKIPs old leader(still part of UKIP) is very good and him and Daniel always speak together. If you like daniel youll love Nigel Farage, they are both brilliant. Search and subscribe to one of the UKIP channels to see what i mean, also watch this EuroParl vid of Nigel

watch?v=0vBqyG6qYXE

Nigel Farage = Balls of steel!

[TheEbonicslover]

that's not how it's done here. We go out and spit in their faces even if they don't care. That's how arrogant they are. For instance the recent Lindsey Graham talking trash about Ron Paulers in front of them. I'm glad I wasn't there or he would lose his teeth that scumbag.

Of course I heard of Farrage and saw his speeches. People of Europe who still have some humanity left must finally stand up or total slavery is at hand.

[NicosMind]

Cool. Im just trying to spread the word

[TheEbonicslover]

I do think however is copying and spreading Alex's movies like Endgame, Fall of the Republic. Obama Deception are the best ways to inform the sheep. Another great movie is Bill Still's "The Money Masters"

[NicosMind]

Ive seen the Money Masters. It good but long. They do fall down a bit in some of their economic theory(about the gold standard) but other than that it is excellent.

But i agree with what youre saying. Its one thing pointing people to the right people to vote for. But people have to understand why these people are right.

Btw, i heard the leader of the Scotish National Party saying he wants Scotland to have their own currency and monetary policies. Smart man. And with balls!

[TheEbonicslover]

Really? Kick ass! It will take time but we need to press on and get more people involved.

Yes there has to be a commodity standard. Bill is a utopian and thinks we can trust the men in government.

Check out Fall of the Republic (for free on youtube) , it's all about the carbon tax and who's behind it.

[NicosMind]

Yip. I seen it yesterday in The Daily Politics on the BBC. Ill search for that video now. I think i might of seen it though im not overly sure. I'll find out in a minute i guess.

[terribetancourt]

I love you Daniel

[MrAnkhtify]

Awesome, great speech!

[Ampelios]

As much as I hate politicians in this age, Hannan stands alone in acting as role model to any individual of any age. Flawless speeches, great historical background make me think his historical references are lost due to the apathy and ignorance of the EU Parliament.

"Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it."

[wasabimanic]

"..the new President,.... appointee." Can we have a new "alternative" President, .....appointee. Please? Well it'd be as legitimate as wotsisname.

[MiltiadesOfMarathon]

Without a doubt I would vote Conservative to put Daniel Hannan into the position of Prime Minister.

As it is I just don't think I can bear to vote at all, I'm certainly not going to put my trust in Cameron.

[ronpaulspanish]

Great! Flawless spanish there...

[bertly71]

He is correct. Political persuasion should not determine ones love of the environment. Unfortunately it has been hijacked by some far left people that are being used as useful idiots by politicians.

[iiooioooi]

go Daniel

[ScourgeOfGodUK]

I see what Mr Hannan meant when he said on his blog that the Speaker was pretty strict re. the length of the speeches. Anyway, I agree that the Eurocrats seem to view Copenhagen as a golden opportunity to promote their own federalist agendas, rather than deal with the real environmental issues at hand.

[phonephreak69]

dan your my favorite new politician keep up the good fight!

[icegryphon]

Environmentalism has just become something for the eugenics crowd to use as a way to implement there agenda.

[chipleyfla]

Two thumbs up and our support across the pond!  Jeff

[IridescentEye]

Good stuff Mr. Hannan, although you may have added a little "climategate" dig. The science behind AGW has surely got to be doubted now.

[Seaweedwitch]

You are right to bring up the desire for the undemocratic so called New World Order or Global Governance. Thank God someone is.

[Orchard6773]

This scam is just an excuse for more government control.

[3martijns]

See CLIMATEGATE - Humongous New Scandal ONLY being EXPOSED by FOX NEWS.

Global Warming is a TOTAL FABRICATION as an EXCUSE for COMMUNISTS to take over the WHOLE WORLD.

[wrathofgod86668]

Hannan for PM

[BlueSkies360]

That's right. We need market solutions, based of property rights, not more taxation, based on beaurocrat subjective opinions.

[rockhuddy]

Global Warming is a fraud intended to justify world government, and fund it through carbon taxes.

[Historyisthekey]

@rockhuddy sadly you are 100% correct. Fortunately, more people are aware of this fact now

[mickystoned]

I find Dan Hannan to be a breath of fresh air.

[freedominsomalia]

conservatives and marxists are FUCKED!!!!!!!

FREE MARKETS AND PRIVATE PROPERTY FTW

[Elasaltaculos]

Beautifully said!