Didn't these mounds take hundreds of years to build? If that's the case I don't think we can assume that Moroni built them. And Fort Ancient's ditches are on the inside of the wall aren't they? Also what's the name of the structure in the end when you show the battle scenario? I'd like to research it. Thanks
So, JS described a *fort* which does not require a prophet! A fort is a fort. Most forts are pretty much the same. The whole idea of a fort is that the only means of entry is thru the main gate which is well fortified. Not very convincing. Having said that, I prefer NA as the BOM setting.
@tranceemerson according to Joseph Smith the city of enoch will be hovering above jackson County Missouri during Jesus's next return. : O while Elohim stays on a solar system Kolob. My regards to your mom BTW.
@tranceemerson because yeah, there's that one part of my religion that you completely missed. I think you've heard of it. the whole bible. perhaps you should read it sometime.
@tranceemerson did I ? sorry. Joseph Smith hovering city of Enoch, quakers on the moon, the star Kolob where God lives, magic mushrooms, Zelth the white Lameite, the 3 Nehites ( still here) , rock in a hat... all pretty amusing I have to admit. Not sure about your mom's place tho.
I want to see the new documentary that has come out about archeology in North America. I can't remember the name, but they talk a lot about how the intelligence and advancedness of native americans has been hidden due to racism and bigotry.
All this is nice too, but we must remember our testimonies are based on faith above all.
This seems to be very loose connection between what the text of "BOM" says and what we see in the video. I understand the frustration BOM archeologists share with one another, they want to find something, anything that will give historical credibility to the places mentioned in the BOM. To find a house, a coin, or ancient writings would be nice..
@DefendingMormonism Bro, I say this with utmost respect for your beliefs, are you sure you are not endanger of separating your faith from reality? It just seems like people are going to great lengths to try to find proof, any evidence to try to justify the historical accuracy of the BOM, that's all. I am not an 'anti,' I am just expressing my honest opinion. I don't deny that there are Mormons that love Jesus and will probably be having this conversation with me in heaven.
Interesting. I would note that some archeologists say Ohio was home to a HUGE ancient population and one city supported an estimated 1 million+ people. They built with earth and wood, so most of what they built is gone now, unlike Mid and South America. Fun stuff.
Professor John Clark has reviewed Wayne Mays work in the FARMS Review. While Mays work seems to show spectacular connections between The Book of Mormon and ancient sites/people, LDS archaeologists have found his work to be lacking in many areas, and unreliable. Please take his work with a grain of salt.
To be honest, it doesn't matter to me where The Book of Mormon took place. It could have happened in North America, South America, or in Cuba and wouldn't make any difference to me. Some at FAIR do subscribe to a North American theory, that is not the issue. I believe FAIR got involved because of the tactics that some North American theorists use. For example, saying that Joseph Smith only taught a North American setting for The Book of Mormon. He taught, and allowed several geographies to be
taught. If anyone says that he taught any theory exclusively, is not be accurate in their statement. But, again, if there is more evidence of a North American setting than elsewhere, I, FAIR, FARMS will be the first to jump on board in order to help find and promote evidence for The Book of Mormon. But, so far, the research isn't there yet. If there is anything to that theory, then it will come, so I guess, time will tell.
I agree that only time will tell, and I also could care less. Geographical evidences and archeology is the last thing that I would depend on for a testimony of truth.
Please send me a link to FAIR papers that also promote the North American theories. Most that I have read have focused on Meso-America.
@DefendingMormonism Neither Hopewell/Salutrean nor any other NA culture will satisfy BofM claims. You need Jewish influence, metallurgy, coins, written language, etc. The Hierarchy knows this and stays silent on the subject. And points to SA. But the problem remains: Why are the names in the BofM in New England? How and why would Mormon walk 1000;'s of miles carrying heavy gold books thru many barbaric tribes and bury them in a drumlin in NY and leave not a word about that?The deeper we dig....
@fairldsorg so, why do you care if it is lacking in may areas, non-mormons think our church lacks/false in may areas, no different, that is your opinion. Plus I rather follow what Joesph Smith continued to say until his death where The Book of Mormon lands were,which fairlds and farms totally discredit for the discrepancies, which I am great-full they haven't done that to the first vision, Joseph Smith being the founding Prophet, why can't take him at his word and start from there, like he did!!
@normancomp1 I only care for the reason that false information does no one any good. Joseph Smith *did* make statements that placed The Book of Mormon this model, but he also made several statements which places it outside of this model in North America, in Central America, and even South America. If *anyone* claims that Joseph Smith only supports their theory, they are being dishonest.
@normancomp1 There was actually an excellent lecture given on Thursday on that very subject. It could have only been written by 3 men who were running the paper. Joseph Smith (general editor and responsible for the content), John Taylor (assistant), and Wilford Woodruff. In Wilford Woodruffs journal during this time, you read that he almost died during August/September of 1842, when the Times and Seasons articles were posted which placed
the Book of Mormon in Central America, and he stated that he did not leave his bed, let alone his house during this time. John Taylor also fell ill in Sept., but it is unknown the severity. So we are left with JS and JT. Recent wordprint studies show that the articles more closely reflect Joseph Smiths writings than John Taylor, or Wilford Woodruff.
@normancomp1 In the T/S 3:710, Joseph Smith wrote: "This paper commences my editorial career; I alone stand responsible for it"
These same papers (Sept and Oct. 1842) included the statement “The Times and Seasons, Is edited, printed and published about the first [and] fifteenth of every month, on the corner of Water and Bain Streets, Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, by JOSEPH SMITH”
@normancomp1 The signature of "Editor", has been shown to be a signature of Joseph Smith. An epistle by Joseph was published in the April 1, 1842, edition of the Times and Seasons under the title “Try the Spirits,” but was only signed as “Ed.” for editor at the end of the article. B.H. Roberts, History of the Church, 4:571 and Times and Seasons 3:743-748.
@normancomp1 But, the Church has no official position on geography and we are all welcome to believe what we want. Personally, I think the Nephites, at least some of the "northward" migrations, settled in the Hopewell area. Archaeology also proves that there was contact and migration from Mesoamerica to that area. I have no problem with accepting the idea that Lehites were in North America.
@fairldsorg I was under the impression that byu or some of you has found those statements that for central america was not from him but from ED= editors, which Joseph Smith signed his name for verification that it was from him at that time he made those statements. I am not attacking you or organization, and I know you guys don't do this for money, I love your other works to support and defend the church, Also many scholars have not found statements from Joesph that he placed it south of USA
@normancomp1 You do realize that FARMS is part of BYU, which is funded by the Church don't you? And that many FARMS members are part of FAIR? The whole mission is to defend the Church against critics, provide evidences for the Church, and occasionally review other work for accuracy. I think if the Church had any problems, they would stop funding FARMS, or at least correct them, and stop sending their reporters to publish the lectures at the FAIR conference every year.
Wow!! A wall and a ditch; I'm convinced!!
CounterCultureLives 3 weeks ago
pseudo archaeology
lilbeaveymac 1 month ago
Didn't these mounds take hundreds of years to build? If that's the case I don't think we can assume that Moroni built them. And Fort Ancient's ditches are on the inside of the wall aren't they? Also what's the name of the structure in the end when you show the battle scenario? I'd like to research it. Thanks
madmonk 4 months ago
So, JS described a *fort* which does not require a prophet! A fort is a fort. Most forts are pretty much the same. The whole idea of a fort is that the only means of entry is thru the main gate which is well fortified. Not very convincing. Having said that, I prefer NA as the BOM setting.
amaxamon 1 year ago
Where is Zarahemla ?
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1 it's in your mom's vagina.
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@kramd1 ok, maybe I should just cut you a deal. you tell me where the City of Enoch is and I'll tell you where Zarahemla is.
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@tranceemerson according to Joseph Smith the city of enoch will be hovering above jackson County Missouri during Jesus's next return. : O while Elohim stays on a solar system Kolob. My regards to your mom BTW.
kramd1 5 months ago
@kramd1 And Noah was laughed at too for building an ark in a place that was far from water.
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@kramd1 funny how you assume that you know more about my religion than I do. I like your attitude. you should study it more.
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@tranceemerson because yeah, there's that one part of my religion that you completely missed. I think you've heard of it. the whole bible. perhaps you should read it sometime.
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@tranceemerson did I ? sorry. Joseph Smith hovering city of Enoch, quakers on the moon, the star Kolob where God lives, magic mushrooms, Zelth the white Lameite, the 3 Nehites ( still here) , rock in a hat... all pretty amusing I have to admit. Not sure about your mom's place tho.
kramd1 5 months ago
@kramd1 you're awesome :D
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@kramd1 I have some photos of me you should see.
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@kramd1 watch?v=DRMBxnxWiNQ
tranceemerson 5 months ago
@tranceemerson Y ?
kramd1 5 months ago
So, for Mormons a ditch or a hill is proof of the Book of Mormon.
Ok, got it.
thesignsoflife7 1 year ago
I want to see the new documentary that has come out about archeology in North America. I can't remember the name, but they talk a lot about how the intelligence and advancedness of native americans has been hidden due to racism and bigotry.
All this is nice too, but we must remember our testimonies are based on faith above all.
pilottim79 1 year ago
@pilottim79 It's called Lost Civilizations of North America. Google for the site.
rockwaterman 3 months ago
The LAME-ites are well named.
pabobfin 1 year ago
@pabobfin Well, not all the lamenites were lame. But, yeah, some of them were.
canadarox14 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mormon = Moron
Mormonism is one of many false religions that were predicted to arise during the "End of Days" in the REAL Bible.
Wake up and really look into the foundations of Mormonism and see what B.S. it was and still is!
TriggerJunkie 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mormon = Moron
Mormonism is one of many false religions that were predicted to arise during the "End of Days" in the REAL Bible.
Wake up and really look into the foundations of Mormonism and see what B.S. it was and still is!
TriggerJunkie 1 year ago
Mormon = Moron
Mormonism is one of many false religions that were predicted to arise during the "End of Days" in the REAL Bible.
Wake up and really look into the foundations of Mormonism and see what B.S. it was and still is!
TriggerJunkie 1 year ago
This seems to be very loose connection between what the text of "BOM" says and what we see in the video. I understand the frustration BOM archeologists share with one another, they want to find something, anything that will give historical credibility to the places mentioned in the BOM. To find a house, a coin, or ancient writings would be nice..
Drooblemeister 2 years ago
@Drooblemeister
While it would be "nice" to find such, the only real converter will always be the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:3 has always been one of my favorite verses:
"No man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost"
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism Bro, I say this with utmost respect for your beliefs, are you sure you are not endanger of separating your faith from reality? It just seems like people are going to great lengths to try to find proof, any evidence to try to justify the historical accuracy of the BOM, that's all. I am not an 'anti,' I am just expressing my honest opinion. I don't deny that there are Mormons that love Jesus and will probably be having this conversation with me in heaven.
Drooblemeister 1 year ago
Did customs of heaping up dead bodies for fast burials after wars (Alma 16:9-11), spread into other areas of Americas?
Josiah Priest, American Antiquities, Albany, 1833: Tells of mounds filled with weapons, & bones in different states of USA.
See also: Alexander W. Bradford, American Antiquities, & Researches Into The Origin & History of The Red Race, NY: Dayton & Saxton 1841
Joshua M Bennett, The Gospel of the Great Spirit, SLC, Utah: Morning Star, 1990: Shows a lot of evidences for BOM
JustinMartyrJr 2 years ago
@JustinMartyrJr
Thanks for the resources!
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism your welcome & keep up the good vids bring em out for us to consider too on your channel.
RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS 1 year ago
Interesting. I would note that some archeologists say Ohio was home to a HUGE ancient population and one city supported an estimated 1 million+ people. They built with earth and wood, so most of what they built is gone now, unlike Mid and South America. Fun stuff.
Z8nate 2 years ago
@Z8nate
Interesting. In the end, those who cry out for BoM archeology anyway would no doubt not believe despite being shown concrete evidence.
After all, there are those who saw angels first-hand, yet were not converted...
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
@Z8nate google ancient mound builders in the USA. It may be that the ways of building forts & mounds were passed down to other areas & cultures.
RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS 1 year ago
Definately interesting.
ChristopherMillz 2 years ago
Professor John Clark has reviewed Wayne Mays work in the FARMS Review. While Mays work seems to show spectacular connections between The Book of Mormon and ancient sites/people, LDS archaeologists have found his work to be lacking in many areas, and unreliable. Please take his work with a grain of salt.
fairldsorg 2 years ago
@fairldsorg
Why does FAIR continue to push back so aggressively against Book of Mormon North American theories and evidences such as the Hopewell Indian tribe?
DefendingMormonism 2 years ago 2
To be honest, it doesn't matter to me where The Book of Mormon took place. It could have happened in North America, South America, or in Cuba and wouldn't make any difference to me. Some at FAIR do subscribe to a North American theory, that is not the issue. I believe FAIR got involved because of the tactics that some North American theorists use. For example, saying that Joseph Smith only taught a North American setting for The Book of Mormon. He taught, and allowed several geographies to be
fairldsorg 2 years ago
taught. If anyone says that he taught any theory exclusively, is not be accurate in their statement. But, again, if there is more evidence of a North American setting than elsewhere, I, FAIR, FARMS will be the first to jump on board in order to help find and promote evidence for The Book of Mormon. But, so far, the research isn't there yet. If there is anything to that theory, then it will come, so I guess, time will tell.
fairldsorg 2 years ago
@fairldsorg
I agree that only time will tell, and I also could care less. Geographical evidences and archeology is the last thing that I would depend on for a testimony of truth.
Please send me a link to FAIR papers that also promote the North American theories. Most that I have read have focused on Meso-America.
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism Neither Hopewell/Salutrean nor any other NA culture will satisfy BofM claims. You need Jewish influence, metallurgy, coins, written language, etc. The Hierarchy knows this and stays silent on the subject. And points to SA. But the problem remains: Why are the names in the BofM in New England? How and why would Mormon walk 1000;'s of miles carrying heavy gold books thru many barbaric tribes and bury them in a drumlin in NY and leave not a word about that?The deeper we dig....
IExposeMormonism 7 months ago
agreed. I think it would be important to note that these fortifications could be modeled after what they did anciently in the book of Mormon lands...
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
@fairldsorg so, why do you care if it is lacking in may areas, non-mormons think our church lacks/false in may areas, no different, that is your opinion. Plus I rather follow what Joesph Smith continued to say until his death where The Book of Mormon lands were,which fairlds and farms totally discredit for the discrepancies, which I am great-full they haven't done that to the first vision, Joseph Smith being the founding Prophet, why can't take him at his word and start from there, like he did!!
normancomp1 1 year ago
@normancomp1 I only care for the reason that false information does no one any good. Joseph Smith *did* make statements that placed The Book of Mormon this model, but he also made several statements which places it outside of this model in North America, in Central America, and even South America. If *anyone* claims that Joseph Smith only supports their theory, they are being dishonest.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
Comment removed
normancomp1 1 year ago
@normancomp1 There was actually an excellent lecture given on Thursday on that very subject. It could have only been written by 3 men who were running the paper. Joseph Smith (general editor and responsible for the content), John Taylor (assistant), and Wilford Woodruff. In Wilford Woodruffs journal during this time, you read that he almost died during August/September of 1842, when the Times and Seasons articles were posted which placed
fairldsorg 1 year ago
the Book of Mormon in Central America, and he stated that he did not leave his bed, let alone his house during this time. John Taylor also fell ill in Sept., but it is unknown the severity. So we are left with JS and JT. Recent wordprint studies show that the articles more closely reflect Joseph Smiths writings than John Taylor, or Wilford Woodruff.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
@normancomp1 In the T/S 3:710, Joseph Smith wrote: "This paper commences my editorial career; I alone stand responsible for it"
These same papers (Sept and Oct. 1842) included the statement “The Times and Seasons, Is edited, printed and published about the first [and] fifteenth of every month, on the corner of Water and Bain Streets, Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, by JOSEPH SMITH”
fairldsorg 1 year ago
@normancomp1 The signature of "Editor", has been shown to be a signature of Joseph Smith. An epistle by Joseph was published in the April 1, 1842, edition of the Times and Seasons under the title “Try the Spirits,” but was only signed as “Ed.” for editor at the end of the article. B.H. Roberts, History of the Church, 4:571 and Times and Seasons 3:743-748.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
@normancomp1 But, the Church has no official position on geography and we are all welcome to believe what we want. Personally, I think the Nephites, at least some of the "northward" migrations, settled in the Hopewell area. Archaeology also proves that there was contact and migration from Mesoamerica to that area. I have no problem with accepting the idea that Lehites were in North America.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@fairldsorg I was under the impression that byu or some of you has found those statements that for central america was not from him but from ED= editors, which Joseph Smith signed his name for verification that it was from him at that time he made those statements. I am not attacking you or organization, and I know you guys don't do this for money, I love your other works to support and defend the church, Also many scholars have not found statements from Joesph that he placed it south of USA
normancomp1 1 year ago
@normancomp1 You do realize that FARMS is part of BYU, which is funded by the Church don't you? And that many FARMS members are part of FAIR? The whole mission is to defend the Church against critics, provide evidences for the Church, and occasionally review other work for accuracy. I think if the Church had any problems, they would stop funding FARMS, or at least correct them, and stop sending their reporters to publish the lectures at the FAIR conference every year.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
Comment removed
normancomp1 1 year ago
It's amazing how they remembered to do this even centuries after the great wars of the Nephites with Capt Moroni as their leader.
ToThisEndWasIMormon 2 years ago 3
that was so kewl!
LDSapologist71 2 years ago 3
Excellent presentation
imtherealthing 2 years ago 3
did you say it was called
FORT ANCIENT ??? @ 1:50
omiolo2 2 years ago 6