Why government option will destroy private health insurance industry

[auburn722]

Seems to fine in other countries like london or th uk their economy is doing 4 times better than ours right?

[VladtheEmailer]

Ok, somebody tell me WHY I have to (in my job) argue with the insurance company in order to get CT scans on a little boy with Hodgkin's and Non- Hodgkin's lymphoma, and Hemolytic anemia?? Would some Rebublican F*ck tell me why? Because there is only one reason, the insurance companies ARE IN COMPLETE control !! There MUST be a government option. WE DO NOT MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS NOW!

[captcaveman4201]

soo lets get this straight ok.. On one hand you will have your health , but loose your money.. and on the other hand you will have your money , but loose your health.. what is the smart way to go??? it is clear as day to me.. You want your health.. that is the wize choice. If for no other reason, you can't spend money while dead..

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

I am not sure I follow...

[captcaveman4201]

im saying that in a few years the concept of money will be obsolete.. and you will be healthier and better off because of it..

[hylo1111]

And thats why your whole argument should be on Tax dollars,Congress passed the bill, it was challenged at the supreme court,USPS won and Fedex UPS and others are still around still making profit.Ironic.You can thank Richard Nixon (republican) for the postal reformation act that created this.

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

FedEx and UPS have not been destroyed by USPS only in the sectors where they actually compete. What would happen if UPS and FedEx were initially allowed to compete in First Class sector but then Congress gave the exclusivity to USPS as they did? Would their revenues collapse or not? Then we could compare apples to apples.

[hylo1111]

Its funny that it was the US supreme court ruled that USPS had rights for first class and the US supreme court also ruled in favor of the USPS as a separate identity to the US government and separation from the Sherman Antitrust Act.

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

And yet Congress votes to give it several billions this year

[hylo1111]

Now with the inefficiency of Government, well I'll agree with you there, but that is still not your argument.I worked in private industry for 13 years and went to the public sector 3 years ago working in a water waste water municipality.(im retired at 36 lol)Because of general revenue issues we separated from the city and became a private/public company and now can upgrade our facilities.just change your vid titlle to "how the public plan is going to cost us more money" and ill be happy. lol

[hylo1111]

What would you do hypothecaly speaking you fell down some stairs at home and did some damage to your self to a point where your medical bills exceeded your coverage, you were forced to remortgage your house to cover your bills, but then because you couldn't work and you couldn't pay off the mortgage, you loose your house, and your still messed up and you end up in a government program that you do not want to pay for in the first place.what would you do?

[hylo1111]

Here is the strongest arument you could make:With the public plan you are being double dipped.You are paying for private insurance+your tax dollars is also paying for someone elses coverage.You can use this argument for the USPS as well on certain services.Your main argument is the tax dollar, because E mail has replaced majority of mail, greyhound, fed ex and ups really havent been destroyed by government at all even with the monopoly of one service.

[EasyEs]

You need to think of health care in terms of what if the USA didn't exists.

It is no secret that most health care technology and innovation comes from the USA. What would our care look like if all we had was crappy Canadian PC mushy feel good government directed innovation....I shudder at the thought.

[hylo1111]

Like the USA the Canadian government gives funding to research . Technology still comes from private sectors.....All healthcare is provided by each province. So healthcare may vary from province to province. There also would be no healtcare in Canada if it was not for the NDP years ago.

[EasyEs]

So if it wasn't for the NDP i could never have gone to see a doctor and paid the bill? I am sorry I don't enjoy the government having a enforced monopoly on the health care I receive.

Why are your answering questions to points I never raised also?

[hylo1111]

Oh im sorry.Healthcare technology and innovation comes from the US, Canada, Europe, and many other countries.Mushy feel good PC feel good government does not direct innovation, the minds of scientists and doctors do no matter which country they are from, goverment provides funding only,If the US did not exist we would still have Canada, Europe and other countries doing research,and without the States healthcare would be cheaper, they lead the way in lawsuits against doctors and hospitals

[EasyEs]

Yes research is done around the world. But where research turns into actual products and technology is the USA by a far margin.

How can we not be subsidized by the USA if by cutting costs through tort reform as you suggest would transfer over to us. I don't get your logic.

Health care is expensive because it is subsidized, just like university.

[hylo1111]

Healthcare costs whether it is private or public. University is expensive because of saleries, supplies, maintence, utilities, contracts, ect. As the cost of living goes up, everything else follows.Healthcare is no different.Doctors, nurses,support staff, need to eat too.

[EasyEs]

Oh god. It increases faster then inflation. You miss the point, universities have no incentive to be more efficient because their cost are subsidized and what ever they charge the government backs the loans that pay it.

Same with health care, costs go up because there is little to no pressure directly from the consumer to cut them.. do people shop around for MRIs? No they check to see if it is covered and they could care less about actual cost.

[hylo1111]

Further more USA spends more in healthcare than any other industrialized country in the world but its people recieve the least amount of care.Canada healthcare is still not as good as other european countries.Further more US is the only country in the world without a public option. And Canadian healthcare is more private than you realize otherwise I would not need Blue Cross or Sunlife insurance.

[EasyEs]

The USA also spends more on food and cars and homes. They get more services done. And their outcomes are better. Length of life is not a measure of health care outcomes. Blue Cross and Sunlife exsist becasue of the need for them. Trust me there are plenty who want them gone for reasons of ideological purity.

[hylo1111]

US depends on bail out from China, they depend on Canada for gas, power, oil, and fresh water. Their imports far exceed their exports, 1% has all the wealth, but with their debt our homeless are worth more than their richest.The US is in awsome shape.2 of the big 3 auto companies needed bailouts.Yeah the US model is the one to follow.Services cost money, they just hope their insurance covers them, otherwise there goes the house, the life savings their dignity.

[EasyEs]

Partialy true. They supply most of their own oil but we are their biggest supplier of imported stuff. Fresh water? I would suspect a very small fraction of that if any comes from Canada (I'll ask you to provide a source).

Yeah America abandoned the free market thats why they are suffering.

And being unemployed on a waiting list is great for one's dignity..

Getting addicted to pain killers while on a waiting list is good for dignity?

This stuff happens in Canada, look at Cape Breton!

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

Police is local, not Federal.

Armed forces and homeland security can't be compared to USPS there are no private alternatives to them, while there are many to USPS. USPS is given a monopoly by the gov't on First Class mail. They have a monopoly by law, FedEx and UPS are prohibited BY LAW to compete in that sector - and they still can't make money.

Do you honestly not understand the difference between national defense and mail? And btw, provisioning for Pentagon is horrifically inefficient too

[hylo1111]

Tax dollars are still tax dollars.Land taxes,drivers licsence,vehicle regestration,income tax, blah blah blah tax,whether it goes to local or federal, still goes to some kind of general revenue, and it is still your tax dollar.And from general revenue money goes to what ever government program it has been alloted to. National defense costs more than mail,employs more people,and is the biggest money grab for private contractors,next to current healthcare providers for the moment

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

I am not sure what your point is. Should we abolish national defense?

You don't decide how much national defense you consume. We all consume the same amount. Same goes for courts, police, FBI, etc. However, we all make choices to consume different amounts of services provided by USPS, and with competition, we would be free to choose between services offered by different providers.

I am yet to see you refute my argument about national health insurance crowding out private competitors.

[hylo1111]

national defence(no)Courts(no)Police(no­) ect (no)

The public option would not crowd private competitors.Public option would take the people who would not be looked at by the private sector anyways.Also Drug companies and hostpitals would end up making more money in the long run with the extra "costumers" that would be provided.The private sector would be untouchedThe real issue is your tax dollar, not the compitition betweenprivate and public service,or the crowding out of private competitors.

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

You still have not refuted or even addressed my actual argument. You have stated your own opinion, for which I thank you, but unfortunately I don't see any substantiation or logical chain for reasoning to support your theory.

[hylo1111]

Very weak arguement, very weak.Postal service?what about the wall street bailouts,government contracts for military,the cost of police, the cost of government officials, road maint and construction,automakers bailouts,disaster relief,foreign aid.Explain why private sectors should get "subsidized" and public sectors should not.Corperate welfare is still well fare.The public option does not endanger the private sector it just makes them honest and more accountable.

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

Where did I make an argument that corporate bailouts are ok? where did advocate for that? None of those corporations, automakers, financial institutions or anyone else, should have been bailed out with my money. Subsidizing ANY industry is evil, and I would never support anything like that.

So now that you're done putting words in my mouth, which of my arguments do you consider weak and why exactly?

[hylo1111]

Now thats an arqument I can agree with ;)

using Postal service was weak because you would still have to lump national Defense, homeland security, police force, in the same group as healthcare with the postal service.Government services will always have cost.And I believe healthcare should be a combination of private and public.I have found that any insurance of any kind tends to try find loop holes to screw a person.I can give personal experience if you like

[johnnorvaisas]

If this socialist bunch in DC gets a public option we are in big trouble in America.

Post office=Falure

Medicare Going broke and run very poorly.

Why in the hell do people want the socialists running our health care it's a very very stupid idea.

[aztecking21122012]

I have never heard of a doctor being sued in Canada ever. So I cannot say.

[djjimi]

As a quasi-governmental agency, it has many special privileges, including sovereign immunity, eminent domain powers, powers to negotiate postal treaties with foreign nations, and an exclusive legal right to deliver first-class and third-class mail.

[djjimi]

The USPS is often mistaken for a government-owned corporation (e.g. Amtrak), but as noted above is legally defined as an "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States,"[cite this quote] as it is wholly owned by the government and controlled by the Presidential appointees and the Postmaster General.

[blaufuss1]

Your're right ! And that's why the health insurance industry is destroying your public option. You're so mad if you think it's bad if the government can offer a cheaper option. And if the government have to pay for it, whats the matter? The government is payed by the people, if they now get at least a little bit back, what's bad with it? The money stays in the country and is not wasted by wars in some deserted countries ( let me guess, you are in favor of the wars ;) ).

[djjimi]

The United States Postal Service (USPS) is an "independent establishment of the executive branch" of the United States Government (see 39 U.S.C. § 201) responsible for providing postal service in the United States. Within the United States, it is generally referred to as "the post office."

[blaufuss1]

Where do we go from here?

Nice Wiki-quote by the way.

[SeekerNLife]

Other countries which have Govt-controlled Healthcare have had to put Caps on Med-Liability Lawsuits.

They did this *after* their Govt took over the Healthcare.

Why?

Because their Govt would go Bankrupt paying out all those mega-million-dollar Lawsuits.

This illustrates how much we are all paying for these Lawsuits.

People don't seem to know this.

These 2 things: Tort Reform & Interstate Competition for Ins. Co.s.....would drastically lower our healthcare costs.

Great video.

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

Great point about tort reform.

Another thing that would bring down cost is equalization of tax status of individually purchased and employer provided insurance. That plus the 2 measures you refer to would have a MASSIVE effect.

[SeekerNLife]

Thanks.

And I agree about the tax equalization.

Or...simply let us pay for Med. Ins. with pre-tax income...like with 401k's.

Obama is a Political Predator who is using the problems with our healthcare system to justify his Takeover.

We need some simple Reforms...not a Takeover.

The fact that he wants it so bad, illustrates his desperation to have total Control over our lives.

[aztecking21122012]

No it would not. If you pay an insurance company 100 dolars less a month but the government only 60 dollars for the same service.

[aztecking21122012]

Tort reform cannot work for the simple reason is that decisions still remain in the legal not the executive!

[SeekerNLife]

azteckng,

Canada does not allow a person to sue a Doctor for mega-millions, does it?

Didn't the Canadian Govt. put 'Caps' on the amount that an individual can sue for a medical malpractice complaint?