Well, not all greeks believed in their religion.They all sorta did it as theatre.Also, this theory doesn't explain eastern religions.I'm talking about buddhism or taoism where central worship comes from a concept or a teaching rather than a spirit.Buddhism(my religion) has a lot of spirits but less than shenism or shintoism.I certainly hear of tales of demons and gods coming from my guru.Taoist doctrine is completely based on wisdom and only a few spiritual and vague concepts poping up.
WOW! All that stuff you said was really facinating! You said that you know how the brain works so does that mean you why we actually dream? Also, you said about at the end of a dream you are almost awake mentally, I had a dream recently and it got really wierd at the end.
@supaBALOONIST Every organ in your body has a self cleaning process, and so does your mind... Dreaming is the process that your mind sorts out reality from non-reality. Disregard your dreams as non-reality. They will go away.
While listening to this I was pondering the need to master where you place your attention and thoughts. I am sure a sensed presence can by pushed away by conscious effort. I am not so sure a hallucination, drugged or otherwise, can be pushed away, or an electrically stimulated brain, or whether a bicameral mind can by controlled. Anyway self-mastery is important. Regarding state memory: I was thinking how curious it is that I can maintain the dream state as I slowly awake to remember a dream.
Thanks for the subscription request, your video is curious at best. I think you place to much emphasis on a singular perspective. Read some Timothy Leary PHD & Robert Anton Wilson PHD. You should add to your "perspective reality tunnels quite a bit. It is to often from an individual singular standpoint people take an opinion or perspective & then think it applies to the entire universe. A belief in something such as you have becomes inflexible because that is the nature of a belief.
@wickedhorizoninc Does your liver not work the same as mine? Do you have to eat food the same as I do? Do you have to breath air and drink water the same as the rest of us do?
I used to be very interested into spelunking, and every "private" cave I went into (not very many as I usually just explored some areas with my friends that were deemed to be safe) the staff always told us stories of how, when alone or even with another person in complete darkness, audible hallucinations start to occur after about 20 minutes.
About the hallucinations and why they were more common in the past than they are now: I think that they were more in tune with nature,their own self and other people than we are now and back then there was no such thing as public education system (which is shit btw) and their brains, minds weren't shackled by this system. As much as somebody might think that education system is good, think about what you learnt at school, and then think what young brain would do with that sort of pressure on it
oh, come on, the gods are real; they're not, and never were, a brain product. check the article on John Lorber's work in science 1980: "Is Your Brain Really Necessary?"
What a way of meeting people and get to see their talent. At first was reluctant being on youtube, but getting to do this has brought me into the houses of some very special people. You are one of them. Life; isn't it wonderful!
Keep up the good work. Hope You Are Having A Splendid Day!
Well I saw a 3 minute schpeel of McKenna talking about how "values are handed down" from some archons, and how the whole world could be a "community", and from some video titles I saw he's against what he calls "capitalism" so he's clearly an economic ignoramus. He seems pretty dumb so far, just a dime-a-dozen "anti-authoritarian" who wants to force the makers to give to the takers, so unless you have something specifically insightful to point to, that will remain my opinion of him.
How does Jaynes know hallucinations were more frequent in the past? I would conjecture that theres a strong selection bias in historical texts for stories involving hallucinations, from the apostles to Constantine. I.e. people saw visions and heard voices at the same rate, but the surviving texts are mostly religious in nature and therefore over-represent hallucinations.
Jaynes also talks about encounters between the Spanish and the Americans, and how the Americans, especially early on, would tell the Spanish they were having hallucinations almost every day. He also describes the change in religious texts from a description of hallucinations to more abstract ideas, how the Oracles declined in popularity over time and eventually became ridiculed and how they went from...
being a place where anyone could come and commune with the gods to having specialists (which we now know were just people prone to hallucination), often young girls, have an episode and these episodes were interpreted by priests. Jaynes goes into depth of the progression of thought within the classical period.
It's certainly possible to interpret dreams metaphorically. But don't be too sure about what causes your dreams. Any comtemplation of the collective subconcious could affect your dreamstate immensely, as could prayer.
Ryan I suggest you read the book of Urantia if you haven't done so yet.. Its one of the books that greatly inspired Hitler, unfortunatly he misinterpreted it greatly..However its very interesting I'l sure you'd enjoy
Ryan, I am thoroughly impressed by this video! It really spoke to me - I understood it so well. I do hear voices a lot of the time. Often, I hallucinate someone calling my name as if beckoning me to go to them. I hear my own voice but usually not in quite the same way as I hear my name being called. Weird. Cool book, though. Thanks for posting this!
@TrollTheToll If only one person claims to have heard it probably, but if more people say they heard it too then it wasnt in that one persons mind it was from outside so it would be real.
I don't have much of my own voice in my head. I know what its like to talk to yourself in your head, i can do that no problem, but most of the time i really don't talk to myself. I suppose i make more subconscious decisions that the average person. I really don't know much on this subject at all.
Hi, im working on translating your diamond heghts meditation to swedish, really liked it and want to share the experience. i hope that you get more of those out.
Really interesting hearing you talk about this. I've been talking about sleep paralysis with a friend lately, and how commonly goes with sensed presence and hallucinations. This book sounds really fascinating.
The best hallucinations i had was experimenting with opiates and MDMA. I realise dreams were much more vivid/real when i was a kid. Hardly get that as a grow older.
Very interesting!~! The God thing has been outstretched for centuries, but what if in current times you see something in your dream (or rather nightmare) that only happens in real life a couple of days, weeks and months later? I know someone that things as such happens all the time - she writes down her nightmares and then heart-rendingly it's seen as an event for real! Thanks for inviting me!
Maybe I'm not understanding but when you were talking about 'thumos' and so on, it seems to me that we still have this type of mentality. For example, we don't say 'I beat my heart' but, 'my heart beats'.
It also reminds me of how when you're trying to remember something, another part of your brain will still be working on it after you've forgotten why you wanted to know - then later it 'pops into' your head while washing the dishes. My grandmother once told me she thought of it as sending a message to heaven and it coming back down with the answer.
@sharperguy - Interesting idea, but I do not really think that sentence structure is a result of primitive psychology. If we were to say 'I beat my heart' it would imply that it is a conscious action made by a person. I think 'My heart beats' is accurate, because the heart beats without having the person make the conscious decision to make it do so.
Hey. I'm just wondering, have you read Mises Human Action? Talking about books you read reminded me of it. Was definitely worth reading although I can't say I didn't have to put it down sometimes because it was getting too much or it was going through a dry part.
cool. so as people have collectively analyzed and shared their experiences, socially active brains have had to fill in less and less empty voids when constructing a model of reality. whereas socially- or time- restricted brains (with limited experiential information) are still likely to create a simpler, and less accurate worldview.
My early years were awash with voices which were useful enough to help plan for negative events, like telling me to take along a change of clothes when going out fishing on a cold night w/ my dad when the boat capsized. If ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny then my early years would confirm aspects of Jaynesian psychology. Yet, such voices assisted me in avoiding the God delusion, making stories about those such as Jesus in sunday school seem like a bad joke.
Comment removed
1schwererziehbar1 2 months ago
Well, not all greeks believed in their religion.They all sorta did it as theatre.Also, this theory doesn't explain eastern religions.I'm talking about buddhism or taoism where central worship comes from a concept or a teaching rather than a spirit.Buddhism(my religion) has a lot of spirits but less than shenism or shintoism.I certainly hear of tales of demons and gods coming from my guru.Taoist doctrine is completely based on wisdom and only a few spiritual and vague concepts poping up.
thatkamikid 7 months ago
;)
MySonicc 7 months ago
WOW! All that stuff you said was really facinating! You said that you know how the brain works so does that mean you why we actually dream? Also, you said about at the end of a dream you are almost awake mentally, I had a dream recently and it got really wierd at the end.
supaBALOONIST 8 months ago
@supaBALOONIST Every organ in your body has a self cleaning process, and so does your mind... Dreaming is the process that your mind sorts out reality from non-reality. Disregard your dreams as non-reality. They will go away.
psychuous1 1 month ago
While listening to this I was pondering the need to master where you place your attention and thoughts. I am sure a sensed presence can by pushed away by conscious effort. I am not so sure a hallucination, drugged or otherwise, can be pushed away, or an electrically stimulated brain, or whether a bicameral mind can by controlled. Anyway self-mastery is important. Regarding state memory: I was thinking how curious it is that I can maintain the dream state as I slowly awake to remember a dream.
definitionofis 8 months ago
What book was it that you enjoyed so much on Hitler?
Was it by, and what do you think about, David Irving?
Thanks
OccidentalUploads 8 months ago
Thanks for the subscription request, your video is curious at best. I think you place to much emphasis on a singular perspective. Read some Timothy Leary PHD & Robert Anton Wilson PHD. You should add to your "perspective reality tunnels quite a bit. It is to often from an individual singular standpoint people take an opinion or perspective & then think it applies to the entire universe. A belief in something such as you have becomes inflexible because that is the nature of a belief.
wickedhorizoninc 8 months ago
@wickedhorizoninc Does your liver not work the same as mine? Do you have to eat food the same as I do? Do you have to breath air and drink water the same as the rest of us do?
psychuous1 1 month ago
there is place way past dreams. Love Scott (BUG) welcome to the underground
believersunderground 8 months ago
I used to be very interested into spelunking, and every "private" cave I went into (not very many as I usually just explored some areas with my friends that were deemed to be safe) the staff always told us stories of how, when alone or even with another person in complete darkness, audible hallucinations start to occur after about 20 minutes.
xoxgodofgodsgodxx 8 months ago
The origin of consciousness... is quite the amazing book.
fcdog555 8 months ago
TL;DR
imagineaboringlife 10 months ago 2
@imagineaboringlife How do you read video o_O
OccidentalUploads 8 months ago
About the hallucinations and why they were more common in the past than they are now: I think that they were more in tune with nature,their own self and other people than we are now and back then there was no such thing as public education system (which is shit btw) and their brains, minds weren't shackled by this system. As much as somebody might think that education system is good, think about what you learnt at school, and then think what young brain would do with that sort of pressure on it
velja27 10 months ago
two words.
final cut.
Darkawakener 10 months ago
oh, come on, the gods are real; they're not, and never were, a brain product. check the article on John Lorber's work in science 1980: "Is Your Brain Really Necessary?"
Theai2007 10 months ago
very cool
brentanoleader 10 months ago
You are a great thinker
TheMlaure 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thank you very much for Sharing!
What a way of meeting people and get to see their talent. At first was reluctant being on youtube, but getting to do this has brought me into the houses of some very special people. You are one of them. Life; isn't it wonderful!
Keep up the good work. Hope You Are Having A Splendid Day!
A New Friend
Erick
erickdircks 10 months ago
You might want to consider delving into some of terrence mckenna's work at this point, he and jaynes seem to go hand in hand.
Vice81 10 months ago
Well I saw a 3 minute schpeel of McKenna talking about how "values are handed down" from some archons, and how the whole world could be a "community", and from some video titles I saw he's against what he calls "capitalism" so he's clearly an economic ignoramus. He seems pretty dumb so far, just a dime-a-dozen "anti-authoritarian" who wants to force the makers to give to the takers, so unless you have something specifically insightful to point to, that will remain my opinion of him.
NotRyanFaulk 10 months ago 6
How does Jaynes know hallucinations were more frequent in the past? I would conjecture that theres a strong selection bias in historical texts for stories involving hallucinations, from the apostles to Constantine. I.e. people saw visions and heard voices at the same rate, but the surviving texts are mostly religious in nature and therefore over-represent hallucinations.
Hamandchees3 11 months ago
Jaynes also talks about encounters between the Spanish and the Americans, and how the Americans, especially early on, would tell the Spanish they were having hallucinations almost every day. He also describes the change in religious texts from a description of hallucinations to more abstract ideas, how the Oracles declined in popularity over time and eventually became ridiculed and how they went from...
NotRyanFaulk 11 months ago
being a place where anyone could come and commune with the gods to having specialists (which we now know were just people prone to hallucination), often young girls, have an episode and these episodes were interpreted by priests. Jaynes goes into depth of the progression of thought within the classical period.
NotRyanFaulk 11 months ago
It's certainly possible to interpret dreams metaphorically. But don't be too sure about what causes your dreams. Any comtemplation of the collective subconcious could affect your dreamstate immensely, as could prayer.
Bottom line, you just don't know.
shuttledik 11 months ago
Ryan I suggest you read the book of Urantia if you haven't done so yet.. Its one of the books that greatly inspired Hitler, unfortunatly he misinterpreted it greatly..However its very interesting I'l sure you'd enjoy
masterdurchgriff 11 months ago
Jaynes's "Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" is an amazing book. I was just stunned when I read it.
LynHollyMarie 11 months ago
Ryan, I am thoroughly impressed by this video! It really spoke to me - I understood it so well. I do hear voices a lot of the time. Often, I hallucinate someone calling my name as if beckoning me to go to them. I hear my own voice but usually not in quite the same way as I hear my name being called. Weird. Cool book, though. Thanks for posting this!
jeremyshaw 11 months ago
So when some one claims to hear Ghost's or see something paranormal are they full of shit?
TrollTheToll 11 months ago
@TrollTheToll If only one person claims to have heard it probably, but if more people say they heard it too then it wasnt in that one persons mind it was from outside so it would be real.
Sasuke90000000 11 months ago
I don't have much of my own voice in my head. I know what its like to talk to yourself in your head, i can do that no problem, but most of the time i really don't talk to myself. I suppose i make more subconscious decisions that the average person. I really don't know much on this subject at all.
MirageScience 11 months ago
Hi, im working on translating your diamond heghts meditation to swedish, really liked it and want to share the experience. i hope that you get more of those out.
spiridulla 11 months ago
Oh wow thanks. I just recently posted another one called "aeration"
fringeelements 11 months ago
Really interesting hearing you talk about this. I've been talking about sleep paralysis with a friend lately, and how commonly goes with sensed presence and hallucinations. This book sounds really fascinating.
dvide 11 months ago
You might be interested in the book 'Flow: The psychology of optimal experience.'
Esoparagon 11 months ago
Thanks for the friend add. That being said: your analysis is very astute. This is very thought provoking. :D I have to read the book.
gigipah 11 months ago
Please make a video talking about your top, say, ten books you've ever read. Would be extremely valuable!
davyjames 11 months ago
I think the film you were talking about was A beautiful mind? Based on the real dude John Nash.
davyjames 11 months ago 2
So, primitive consciousness was a series of hallucinations?
chitchcott 11 months ago
What are your thoughts on schizophrenia?
InTheEndIWasRight 11 months ago
The best hallucinations i had was experimenting with opiates and MDMA. I realise dreams were much more vivid/real when i was a kid. Hardly get that as a grow older.
JulianThePhilosopher 11 months ago
Very interesting!~! The God thing has been outstretched for centuries, but what if in current times you see something in your dream (or rather nightmare) that only happens in real life a couple of days, weeks and months later? I know someone that things as such happens all the time - she writes down her nightmares and then heart-rendingly it's seen as an event for real! Thanks for inviting me!
APH0risma 11 months ago
Maybe I'm not understanding but when you were talking about 'thumos' and so on, it seems to me that we still have this type of mentality. For example, we don't say 'I beat my heart' but, 'my heart beats'.
sharperguy 11 months ago
It also reminds me of how when you're trying to remember something, another part of your brain will still be working on it after you've forgotten why you wanted to know - then later it 'pops into' your head while washing the dishes. My grandmother once told me she thought of it as sending a message to heaven and it coming back down with the answer.
sharperguy 11 months ago
Oh wow that is very interesting. If your grandmother was religious, that would make perfect sense.
NotRyanFaulk 11 months ago
@NotRyanFaulk Yeah, she is religious.
sharperguy 11 months ago
@sharperguy - Interesting idea, but I do not really think that sentence structure is a result of primitive psychology. If we were to say 'I beat my heart' it would imply that it is a conscious action made by a person. I think 'My heart beats' is accurate, because the heart beats without having the person make the conscious decision to make it do so.
xXMetalMeltdownXx 7 months ago
Hey. I'm just wondering, have you read Mises Human Action? Talking about books you read reminded me of it. Was definitely worth reading although I can't say I didn't have to put it down sometimes because it was getting too much or it was going through a dry part.
sharperguy 11 months ago
LOVE what you started talking about at around 8min <3
Epic to listen to when I'm in my off state of consciousness.
TrueEmergence 11 months ago
@TrueEmergence also, me and my mate just laid around through this whole thing listening! Thanks ry, this stuff is epic. I wants moarr
TrueEmergence 11 months ago
16:20 The movie was called "A Beautiful Mind", it was supposed to portray the life of mathematician John Forbes Nash and his work in game theory.
Caveman135 11 months ago
cool. so as people have collectively analyzed and shared their experiences, socially active brains have had to fill in less and less empty voids when constructing a model of reality. whereas socially- or time- restricted brains (with limited experiential information) are still likely to create a simpler, and less accurate worldview.
reliberate1991 11 months ago
5:13 maybe its because of the government putting flouride in the drinking water lowering our iq for population controll
ihateslideshows 11 months ago
My early years were awash with voices which were useful enough to help plan for negative events, like telling me to take along a change of clothes when going out fishing on a cold night w/ my dad when the boat capsized. If ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny then my early years would confirm aspects of Jaynesian psychology. Yet, such voices assisted me in avoiding the God delusion, making stories about those such as Jesus in sunday school seem like a bad joke.
gedgetips 11 months ago
@gedgetips you just probably have skitsophrenia
ihateslideshows 11 months ago
i remember holucinating a voice, i think i was half asleep or someting, it sounded like someone was calling my name.
ihateslideshows 11 months ago
you are awesome
trilerkiler 11 months ago
Good video! I actully hear voices alot. People shouting my name in anger.
I think you should make a video just recomending books.
TheMindFarter 11 months ago 7
@TheMindFarter its fallen angels. You can rebuke them in Jesus' name.
Sasuke90000000 6 months ago
@Sasuke90000000 Do you have proof of your claim?
psychuous1 1 month ago
@TheMindFarter You can read Neo-Tech Zon Power or NeoThink, these 2 books will help you break free from voices in your head to mystic free thinking.
psychuous1 1 month ago
Julian Jaynes sounds like a pornstar name.
ohbobsagetpiss 11 months ago 9
British people
MrHerrIQ 11 months ago