Double hits, frozen balls & push shots

[nachoman258]

frozen balls? that sounds painful!!!

[azoldtime09]

The cue-ball is a little thicker than the object balls.

[sporaphyte]

i have had so many arguments with people in my league about this shot where the object ball and cue ball are about a chalks width apart and i tell them they can't shoot straight through it or it's a foul and they all argue with me saying there's no way that's a double hit and i got screwed out of ball in hand on the 8 ball cause my opponent did this last night. i'm a 7 and tell them to ask anyone about this rule who knows about the game and they say i'm wrong. how do i prove that it's a foul?

[dreaminspired]

Very good to know!

[montedebusk]

very informative. thanks...........

[forcefollow]

Question. In reading Phil Capelle he treats shots that are frozen and shots that are within close range as push shots, have you heard different definitions of push and double hit???

[FargoBilliards]

Yes, from the world standardized rules:

3.23 FOULS BY DOUBLE HITS

[...] If the cue stick strikes the cue ball more than once on a shot, or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul. [...]

3.24 PUSH SHOT FOULS

It is a foul if the cue ball is pushed by the cue tip, with contact being maintained for more than the momentary time commensurate with a stroked shot. (Such shots are usually referred to as push shots.)

[forcefollow]

thanx for the clarification.

[tab1990]

where do I find all the rules?

[LeonFleisherFan]

@FargoBilliards Rule 3.23 is fine with me, but rule 3.24 strikes me as problematic insofar as I don't like rules that even an experienced referee will have a hard time interpreting correctly at all times, and worse, when there is no referee, who's to judge if any such shot is a foul...?

[dougnhouston]

I wondered if you watched the video b4 posting this? He states up front that the 2-hit foul is mistaken as a push shot which I see in my league all the time. By BCA rules, any normal stroke on the cue ball if the balls are frozen is leagal, because the cue ball doesn't hit the object ball, rebound and hit the cue tip and go back in th edirection of the object ball. When frozen, there is zero space for rebound, thus no double hit occurs. Pushing has NOTHING to do with this.

[dougnhouston]

Later in the video he explains what a push shot is and it is as it sounds. A push shot is when the tip of your cue remains on the cue ball and the ball is pushed down the table. There's a fine line between that and a "normal stroke" but generally a push is obvious when the stroke isn't a normal stroke and you can generally see the ball being pushed down table. When frozen, the push shot as he shows, pushes the frozen ball out the way then the tip is used to push the ball forward.

[mrkowasaki1]

@forcefollow The video only applies to World Standardized 8ball rules. In VNEA a push shot also includes this addendum to the push shot foul rule:

With a cue ball and object ball frozen, shooting the shot from any angle other than at least 45 degrees above, or at least 45 degrees to the right or at least 45 degrees to the left of center from the straight line of the frozen balls is a foul and must be so called.