Historical maps of Ukraine-Rus' (Історичні карти)

[TheCossackmate]

The term Ukraine is also mentioned for the years 1189, 1213, 1280, and 1282 for various East Slavic lands (for example, Galician Ukrayina, etc.) ...

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek 4) with such words in Latin: "Volynia ulterior que tum Ukraina tum Nis ab aliis vocitatur" what you may translated as: "Lower Volhyla, which they calling Ukraina or Niz". So on maps Name Ukraine start occur ONLY after when Sejm of the Republic used this name first time to describe borders between the Republic and Tatar lands in 1590, so only after this date name Ukraina began to write on maps. You may check this easily looking old maps in internet. 

[majorgeeek]

@GregorMar The word ukraina is first recorded in the fifteenth-century Hypatian Codex (edited version) of the twelfth and thirteenth-century Primary Chronicle, whose 1187 entry on the death of Prince Volodymyr of Pereyaslav says -translation “The Ukraina groaned for him”, ѡ нем же Оукраина много постона - note Ukraina is latinised (Polish) transliteration of Nestor's Cyrillic Оукраина not the other way round - Оукраина meaning Our Land in Old Slavonic - latinised Poles took it to mean borders

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek 3) Word Ukraina in old Ruthenian means borderland the same meaning as in Polish coz polish language was very close to Rus language. Poles and Rus people could talk without any interpreters for very long time. And Name Ukraine first appeared as a stable name on one place (right riverside of Dnieper) first time in Sejm constitutions in 16C. And on maps first time probably in 1613 on the map published in Amsterdam by Tomasz Makowiecki where he called right riverside of Dniester with

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek 2) later the same chronicler writs in 1189 using word Ukraina about DIFFERENT place to describing land laying between Rivers Boh and Dniester. And in another Rus chronicle called Galician-Volhylan Latopis describing year 1213 calls Ukraina on borderland laying on land where is River Bug (Border between Poland and Galician-Volhylan Principality in 1213). As it shows clearly that Rus chroniclers use this word Ukraine exactly in meaning BORDERLAND not as name on country.

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek 1) I see that you even didn't read the text about which you are talking about chronicle called "Latopis kijowski". I have it before my eyes and word Ukraina is used in colloquial meaning of borderland to describe lands laying on the end of Rus and in different places of country where it has border with other lands. The same chronicler first use word Ukraina to describe land laying on the borderland between Rus (Principality of Perejeslav) and Polovcy in 1187, then THE SAME chronicler

[Slavko961234]

Ukraine has Polish/Romanian (and Hungarian in Zakarpattia) influence, Belarus has Baltic/Polish influence, Russia has Uralic/Baltic/Turkic influence...

[majorgeeek]

excellent video outlining history of Ukraina - important to note that Rus in my opinion is transient name for Ukraine - I believe name Ukraina which is Slavic is older than medieval Rus - Rus is not Ukraine and Russian Slavs are not native to Russia

[TeKnO2BaEr]

@majorgeeek well ukrayina ment borderland and it was used long time ago but forgot when axactly.....i know bad gramar....

[majorgeeek]

@TeKnO2BaEr ukraina means My Land - the Slavic provinces of transitory state Rus - borderland to what? certainly not Russia since it did not exist and slavs would not call themselves borderlands - wake up

[TeKnO2BaEr]

@majorgeeek or land like as the jewish ukrayina was isreal.....or something like tatt..................

[majorgeeek]

@TeKnO2BaEr nonsense - Ukraina is recorded in the ancient texts - it is Slav name and means my land like it does today - Ukraine does not mean borderland - in fact I strongly believe the name Ukraina is ancient going back pre Rus times after all Rus was just transitory like the Polish invasions, Lithuianians and Russians - they don't belong in Ukraine and Russian Slavs are not native to Ukraine or Russia for that matter

[ERnieGmbH]

There was Rus with capital Kiev, and Tataristan with capital Mascovia these were two diffrent things , until tatar Peter I called his imperia - Russia.

YouTube: Великая Татария (Great Tartary)

[dm1968r]

Опять бандерологи бред несут.....

[MulfinaUA]

Moscow historian Mikhail Pokrovsky said: "In Moscow people's veins flows 80% of the Finno-Tatar blood. "

That life has proven not only irreconcilable differences, but also the hostility of Moscow and the Ukrainian people.Assembled by centuries of life experience people express in proverbs. Ukrainian said: "Only jews and muscovites were in the bazaar and people aren't ". There are hundreds of similar sayings.

Russia(Moskel) = Finn + Mongols +Tatars

[M0rtalDEATH888]

@MulfinaUA

Where you send this idiotism? It's only stupid hohlomyths!Look's on Rus' map 882. Moscow lands (without city) belonged to Rus. It lands between Smolensk and Vladimir. So, your myhs about Finns and Tatar at this time is BULLSHIT! Ukrainian have 90%Turkish blood. Your lands are Khazra kagan and Cumania. You are Turkish aren't Slavs!

[TheCossackmate]

@M0rtalDEATH888 Think reasonable! All Slavs have Sarmatian and Scythian blood ... View genetic research and you will see that Ukrainians have a higher percentage of genes characteristic for the Slavs and Europeans then Russians. Maps are not clear pictures of some nations history! Russian mentality (with Mongolian heritage) clearly shows that Russians hardly belong to Europe: Ukrainians have for centuries led the Russians to Europe. European Russia without the Ukrainians would not exist!

[M0rtalDEATH888]

@TheCossackmate

All Slavs have Sarmatian and Scythian blood ...

You must less drunk! Ukrainians have much Turkish genes. Russians haven't mix at all. We have clear Slavic blood.Maps are not clear pictures of some nations history!

OK, then forget term "ukraine-Rus" in your fucking prop. Russian didn't crossover with Mongolians. You forget what Ukraine was Turkish lands at Mongolian times and before. European Russia is the Past, Ukraine is temporary project!

[TheCossackmate]

@M0rtalDEATH888 Read the facts about your russian history ... Владимир Белинский: СТРАНА МОКСЕЛЬ (2006). Stay on the ground!

[hetmans01]

@TheCossackmate get your head out of books with hammer and sickle - read some real stuff you will find the truth about your heritage even so it is nothing to be ashamed off - fact is Russian Slavs are not native to Russia and Rus is not Russia - so what, just because you are not real Slavs should not worry you - keep trying tovarish comrade

[GregorMar]

@TheCossackmate With whom you try to talk to? He is full of russian crap propaganda, russians always lied and their will never stop lie. There is no sence to talk with this M0rtaIDEATH888 he is real rusian kacap nothing more.

[MulfinaUA]

@M0rtalDEATH888

This nonsense you wrote originally. Another example. "Everywhere in those places where even now apparent heterogeneity of the population, or where the peasants live russified from Finnish or even a foreign tribe, people hitherto is particularly mental underdevelopment, stiffness, dullness, appatiey as, for example, in the eastern districts of the Kostroma province, Meshcherskaya side of the Ryazan province , north, to the borders of the province of Vladimir

[GregorMar]

@MulfinaUA This is a fact nothing new. But they can lie as no one else, they have no Slavic blood but they pretend to be "mother" of all Slavs. They lie and lie like about Novogrod where Muscovians murdered 130.000 people (women and children) coz Novogrodians wanted to be part of the Republick not Musovy. But they will not tell this loud they lie and lie without end. They stole history of Rus coz they don't have their own.

[GregorMar]

@MulfinaUA In Poland till the end of 19th century their were call Moskale not Rusians. And Ukrainians were called Rusini till the 1920. If you want to see DNA map then seek in the net Europedia, there is real DNA map which shows who is who. And You will see the closest nations by blood. And Russians are close to UrgoFins and thatars.

[irynski]

@GregorMar Thank you for the URL! It seems an excellent resource as regards linguistics, ethnology, etc. I'll definitely spend some time taking in as much current information as possible!

[majorgeeek]

@GregorMar the name Ukraina was first recorded 12C therefore it is reasonable to assume Ukrainians had used this name for their country well before that date which may precede Rus - actually the Y chromosome haploid maps show Ukraine is the native homeland of the European Slavic people -

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek 1) I’m sorry but You are mistaken. This document about which You are speaking about is a COPY from 15C of document called Latopis Kijowski describing years 1111-1200 which describing event that took place at 1187 after death of Prince Wladimir who fought with Polovcy, and all rest of country the same chronicler called in the same document Rus, so this document concerned only land laying on the end of Rus that is why name Ukraine was used in this meaning not as the name of all country

[majorgeeek]

@GregorMar not mistaken - the name Ukraina appears many times in 12-13c text eg Chronicles which means it is reasonable to assume the name was in use by the populous well before that date because it appears in very rare text and used in correct context of referral to country status - I believe the name Ukraina which is Slavic name is older than Rus. the name Rus in fact only a transient title and disappeared after the disintegration of Rus

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek Yes you are mistaken coz as I said this chronicle is telling about years 1111-1200 but IT IS A COPY from 15C. Can you understand that it is a COPY. And Chronicler who wrote THIS CHRONICLE clearly tells about ALL COUNTRY RUS and about PART OF THE COUNTRY! About principality of Perejeslaw ruled by prince Wladimir. And this principality was END OF RUS (look on the map) so hat means it was Ukraina (end of the country). Please write the chronicle first then write something about it OK?

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek 2) And people was not Ukrainians only Rusini (Ruthenians) and in Poland they were called in this way till 19C. My family originate from Ruthenian Nobles from lands of modern Belarus and West Ukraine. In the same meaning name Ukraine was used in the Republic in Sejm constitutions in 15C coz Polish and Ruthenian language were very similar which shows for example Statutes of Lithuania from 1588 which were written in Ruthenian language and it is understandable for Polish people even now.

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek 3. As to DNA highest amount of Slavic DNAR1a1 have three nations Polish 60-55%, Ukrainians 50-43% and Belarusians 50-49% and those three nations are one of the closers nations on the world which shows DNA tests. As to native homeland of Slavs newest investigatesfrom 2009 showing that it is Poland. Will send you this results on PM coz here I can’t add link.

[majorgeeek]

@GregorMar R1a1 is present not only in Slavs -"homeland of Slavs in the middle Dnieper basin." "Y-STR variation among Slavs: evidence for the Slavic homeland in the middle Dnieper basin." Journal of Human Genetics 52 (2007), pp. 406-414. Abstract excerpts:

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek Jesus you telling me about Genetics from 2007 and I showed you DNA investigations from 2009!!! Halo... where is shown that gene R1a1 quote from this article: "Nature has just published a fascinating article on the discovery of a new type of R1a1a, defined by the M458 mutation. The data included in the report firmly puts present day Poland as the most likely place of origin for this haplogroup, known as R1a1a7." If you know better just write to Nature and publish your article.

[majorgeeek]

@GregorMar the Nature article does not contradict the Journal of Human Genetics research - seems more than likely R1a1a7 is most recent mutation and not a marker for old as Kurgan hypothesis - remember also that R1a1a on its own does not define the Slavic race eg soth Slavs have different blends to north slavs etc Ukraine is the Homeland of the Slavs hypothesis appears in most of the origin hypothesis to date - this is unarguable

[GregorMar]

@majorgeeek In Nature is article about Gene R1a1a7 and its mutation M458 which doesn't occurs beyond Europe. So this is pure Slavic gene. R1a occurs beyond Europe for example in Asia, R1a1a7 M458 doesn't occurs there. Investigations concerned to this shows that this mutation is most important for Polish, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Czech, Slovakians, Russians. You saw this on map that I sent you on PM which clearly shows that it is not Ukraine is homeland of this mutation.

[majorgeeek]

@GregorMar the mutation R1a1a7 is recent !!!!!! - it is useless beyond certain date ie it cannot be marker for early events such as Kurgan culture - please argue with scientists - they have said Ukraine is homeland of the Slavs -

[agerroman2009]

nice video

[proexist]

Very nice. Good job.