Dream Deceivers The Story Behind James Vance vs. Judas Priest 1/6

[Sonichusnumber1fan]

Thumbs up if you're because of Bill Hicks.

[PutItAway101]

Hell's starting to look pretty attractive if Heaven is going to be full of fat ignorant small-minded abusive trailer trash fuckwit alcoholic drug addict bovines like these parents.

[LillyAnnex3]

This mother gets on my last nerve. She is not no church person and probably doesnt give to cares for Jesus ir having a relationship with him. If she did she would have never put herself or her son in that situation. I dont support Judas Preist or music with negitive sublininal messages, but this mother just needs to take responsiblity for her actions and the actions of her spouse.

[AllHaiLKINGTIsHeRe3]

Obviously by "do it" the song was talking about going out to feed the poor.

[gspendlove]

I feel like that TV station's jingle at the beginning of the vid is urging me to commit suicide...I'm pretty sure I heard "Just do it now! K the S (meaning: Kiss the Shotgun)!" So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to....oh, wait, that passed. I'm all right now. God damn all these subliminal messages. Would you cut it out, already?

[michelleleawaldrop1]

is he wearing cheese on his head?

[legodarknight101]

"Do it"

Do what? Have sex? Make a cup of tea? Eat an apple? Go to the cinema? Do what?

Honestly people don't take these fucking nuts seriousley.

[gertjan666]

I agree

[daveniner]

I just listened to Stained Class and I don't feel like killing myself...in fact, I feel great! Lol.

[gertjan666]

religious is hate  666

[tjrrockandrollmaster]

@gertjan666 When I see these "Christians" I just laugh at them and think of Genesis' "Jesus He Knows Me" video. Also when I watched Muhammad Hassan, I laugh at the Muslims. All religious nuts are into starting wars and complaining. SCREW THEM ALL!

[mrrobblack]

Crazy religious freaks... can't they see themselves? Judgmental fuckers

[Scoffman5150]

About the suicides: Boths kids had fucked up childhoods. What do you expect? To blame Judas Priest is just fucking stupid.

[theburningitch]

He's a fucking idiot. When I first saw the pictures of this guy, I felt so sorry for him...Now that I know he basically just missed his dumbshit brain with a fucking shotgun and then tried to blame a kickass band for it, I kinda see it as karmic payback for being such a stupid prick.

[elric101]

Come on guys let's all sue Nike! Ain't they're motto "just do it"!!!

[DWarrior4]

Dude I'm so high (gets shotgun) NOOOOOO!!!!!! (Judas Priest playing in the back ground) I imagine it went something like that LOL

[FourPie]

Fucking parents of the victims. Jusad Priest only got sued because the parents wanted someone to blame because they were in denial and it would make their suicidal sons look like idiots.

[InterZlatan8]

suicide is not illegal.

and the 2 eyewitnesses of the event are both dead.

Case closed.

[AnarchyDeathHate666]

Bullshit!

[drednot22]

Worst muppet ever

[cjf7991]

I remeber watching this in 1990-91 on a NY Station channel 13 or 21

[fritzat]

3:45 Puts some gloves on!

[machtrebel]

I keep coming back to watch this...

[NoMercyDB]

tan groso es judas priest que los indujo a suicidarse pendejos tarados. BETTER BY YOU BETTER THAN MEEEE YOU CAN TELL BUT I WANTED TO BEEEEE

[gamesDAMNED]

Ah, the famous court case of "Frankie Lee vs Judas Priest."

[GoodTasteFella]

typical fucking american "religious" family ! WHOAAAAH PRAISE THE LORD JESUS WILL HEAL YOU !!

BULLSHIT thats a stupidest fucking cult around

[Satansdoll]

Stupidest thing I've ever fucking seen.

HURR DURR MY DUMBASS SON AND HIS FRIEND SHOT DEMSELFS CUZ THE DEVIL TOLD IM TO! IT AIN'T HIS FAUWTTTTT

[meab12]

Guy who could snap at any moment and kill some gospel singers @ 6:44

[Slumminbum]

A little bit before my time, but still. I went to high school right after Columbine happened. Silly me, I always thought that if somebody kills themselves, murders somebody because they thought a song made it seem soooo cool then it's their fault, not the guy who made the record. Destructive acts can only be blamed on the person who did the deed.

[TMetalFromHell]

LOL they suicided because of a supposable message saying "do it", by it i would understand like going to poop lool

[nucleardude11]

these parents have no one to blame but themselves for their kids suicides, and now they are blaming an innocent band just because they play muisc they don't like

[nucleardude11]

how sad, those kids took their own lives, and their mother fucking dumb ass parents are blaming music for their deaths, how fucked up is that!!!! LONG LIVE THE METAL GODS!!!!!

[MetallMozzo]

at 6:27..i see a whole bunch of brainwashed church goers!!!

what a sad life!!...

[MetallMozzo]

im guessing that the 2 dislikes are the mothers of ray belknap and james vance!!

and all this bollocks shold never have happened..no wonder Rob Halford Left the band..all this crap probably had something to do with it!..pushed over the edge as so to speak..

[MondoBeno]

I showed this doc to some 10th graders. Before it even started, one girl said "it wasn't the music, I bet it was drugs, alcohol, depression, and a home life that sucked."

[TheSuperduper2000]

James Vance what a loser!

[moviebuff383]

..sad story.. im a huge 80's guy, i love all the rock, one hit wonders and hard rock songs and bands from the 80's... it was such a legalistic time for God and churchs, lots of false teachings of God's word... a lot of the 80's music was about love, and many so called catholics and Christians just judge the image of bands, not the lyrics... so they assume.. so today, Im a follower of God and i can still rock out :)

[yankeesfan6300]

I doubt the parents sued because they really felt deep down Judas Priest was responsible. They did it because it was the only alternative to saying "my kid is fucked up" or "we failed as parents".

Even the plantiffs' lawyers knew this was going to get dismissed and that it was a silly allegation in the first place. I'm sure of that. The album of the song that made them "do it" had been out 13 years up to this case. In that time, how many other people took their lives when listening to that song

[bbsirup]

During the first 16 years of my life I wanted to be a lawyer. As I am watching this, I am thankful to God (or Whoever) for made me change my mind - therefore now I am studying anthropology. As I am watching this McKenna guy, I feel nothing but disgust. And this case is just unbelievable. Don't blame parents which let their kids having drugs and alcohol. Don't blame society neither. Who are we going to blame then? Well of course, heavy metal band. THAT is the HIGHLIGHT of hypocrisy.

[hippolyte90]

whats the song that starts playing at 4:17?

[Marco00891]

@hippolyte90

"Beyond the Realms of Death" from the "Stained Class" album

[hippolyte90]

@Marco00891 thank you!

[cdg282]

I listen to Judas Priest,all the time. And sometimes I'm drunk too,its even more fun. It makes me feel like partyin and havin a good time,not blasting my face off with a shotgun,just sayin. \m/

[peterp21]

Clearly Vance's mother was a total fucking clueless idiot. And apparently an abusive parent too. But why should mullethead blame herself, or try some introspection about why her son felt as horrible as he did all the time to the point he was a PCP-abusing non-functioning member of society. Naaaahh, must be the limey long-hair devil people that caused it, spontaneously. BTW, the lawyer McKenna should have been disbarred over this trial. And then countersued by Judas Priest.

[peterp21]

"Another school psychologist later said there was a good chance that James would "respond violently to stressful situations" as he grew older, according to court records. Admitted to a drug and alcohol addiction center the year of the shooting, James said he used LSD, speed, cocaine, heroin, PCP, barbituates and marijuana. Despite these problems, the Vances think music destroyed their son.." - From the SF Examiner in 1989.

[peterp21]

"James' mother also conceded that she had hit her son too often when he was young. James, in turn, assaulted his mother several times and choked her when he was 8. He once pointed a loaded gun at her head and threatened to shoot her, she said. James' grade school once suggested that he and his mother receive psychiatric counseling because the boy was pulling his hair out and tying belts tightly around his head...

[peterp21]

This was a pretty disgusting case of opportunism by the shyster lawer McKenna and this kid's white trash, redneck family. From a 1989 article on the case (this might be posted in two parts), this kid Vance had LOADS wrong with him: "James Vance had fled from his home 13 times in the two years before the shooting. An only child, he had no contact with his biological father and frequently tangled with his adoptive father, Emmit Vance, a recovering alcoholic..

[WraithThorns]

not to be a dick. but I thought that guy was a puppet at first.....soo I best be packing for hell.

[drkj3di]

@WraithThorns right behind you... oops..

[thedeviltroy]

james vance is a moron.the end

[remstein17]

Only in America if this had happened in England it would have been laughed out of court

[KKoserYaks]

@remstein17 I'm not so sure. England is no less christian than America.

[remstein17]

@KKoserYaks it has nothing to do with faith i am talking about the case, and a case like this wouldn't even make it to court as i say only in America

[KKoserYaks]

@remstein17 The case pretty much has everything to do with faith, dude. I'm pretty sure this case could be brought to court in any other primarily christian nation. It really doesn't matter about nationality; religious nuts are all the same.

[remstein17]

@KKoserYaks I don't think it did mate they might of hid behind their faith but i think it had more to do with making some quick money, and i am pretty sure Priest will not be the last band that it happens too in the USA, I still don't believe it would get to a courtroom over here, and quite simply we don't have the religious nutters over here i mean iv'e been to hundreds of gigs and iv'e never ever seen the god squad outside a UK venue with their banners picketing

[flukt1]

@remstein17 Here in Sweden it wouldn't even go to court LOL

[monkeysinmypocket]

4. It defies logic that the band would want it's fans to kill themselves - unless they like playing to empty stadiums and not selling any records!

5. Even if the subliminal message was perceptible by the human ear - highly unlikely - what does "do it" actually mean? Do what? In what context?

The judge should have been sacked. I know it's Reno, but surely they could employ someone with half a brain?

[monkeysinmypocket]

3. It is scandalous that JP were allowed to be persecuted by the court (albeit a civil court) before the family circumstances were scrutinized. Beating children does not have a negligible effect on them. A parent with a drinking problem does not have a negligible effect. Far too much emphasis is placed on outside influences like JP rather than those which would have had a direct effect on the boys in an attempt by the family to deflect responsibility.

[monkeysinmypocket]

Seriously though it is deeply worrying that this case should ever have been allowed to come to court:

1. A sane judge would have demanded to see scientific evidence that the human ear can perceive these backwards messages when the record is played forward. Without that the prosecution have nothing.

2. The fact that two teenage boys in a state of intoxication have easy access to a powerful shotgun seems never to have been questioned.

[picsafing]

Repent, you sinners! Praise the Lord! REPENT!

[GUlTARlST]

Blame it on the lack of the belief in Jesus???? To make money of the band?

hahah pleace!!! Just another fine example of that religion is root to all evil! Selfish bastards! JP forever!

[julz7196]

listening to metal, you might aswell be worshiping satan, your all sick lambs of god that need help.

[Tigarius4]

James Vance was a fucking moron

[MrLemmy2000]

7:41 Your friend died and you lived and fucked up your face( REALLY FUCKED)DON"T BLAME A JUDAS PRIEST SONG! I as a teenager I would have common sence not to put a shotgun to my face from a song or a girl or anything! You dumb ass stupid shit

[flukt1]

Metal saves!

[beauhall]

I think there would have been thousands more suicides if they had somehow successfully figured out how to embed these mysterious persuasive messages. Instead you've got a kid who failed at his own suicide, filled with remorse and guilt at the death of his friend, grasping at anything to point to as the source for this. Shame. A damn shame.

[TheSecondComingRXSC]

Holy shit! Charlie Brown's parents were in that church!

[OwensAtMet]

ARSEFACE.

[grisknack]

If you can't listen to metal, don't do it....

[aducimeH]

The reasons for mental illness is more of a psycological problem than a sociocultural problem. I don't think gun control could have prevent what happend.We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control.

You can't kill rock n' roll so when tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water. Maybe try and show some interest in the music your kids like, the history behind the band and the meaning of the lyrics.

[bengativo6]

judas priest music blows your brains,i think judas priest forgot to put a sticker on the stained class album handle it with care ,dont listen to more than you can handle,but these 2 idiots took it so seriously about the music could blow yr brains out..

[pr3st0nx]

pfft if anyone should be blamed it is the gun laws in the U.S. not the fucking music they were listening to...

[RAIDERS7009]

..the 80's was such a shallow legalistic time for people in churches.. im a loving Christian now.. and i like rock music and 80's hits.. this church and the parents wanted someone to blame, period..

[RAIDERS7009]

,,,I;m a loving Christian and i love all 80's music, hair bands, rock songs and one hit wonders i think we make choices, no one forces us.. ..i think this was a time when many so called "religious" parents were brainwashed themselves by the media and other churches to assume all rock music was "satanic"..

..sound like the church was very legalistic about God, making assumptions and trying to find a scape goat, because therr kids and church were involved.

[RockinRob2112]

What was the Judge's name? Just curious

[Slumminbum]

Sorry, but I think that if somebody kills themselves because they heard a song about it and thought it was so cool, then maybe there's something wrong with said person as opposed to the music. If you look at the backgrounds of both boys, then that certainly was the case.

[JorrieboyL]

One of the special things I've noticed is that Metal is a music genre witch helps many people trough hard times (without suicide). For example take Metallica's 'fade to black'. It's a song about a man commiting suicide, but when they'd released the 'ride the lightning' album, they got many letters of people who wanted to kill their selves, but thanks to the song, they didn't

P.S. sorry if my English is bad...

[robograndpa]

did anyone notcie the REAL sublimal message at the beginning of the show where it says, "Just Watch Us Now!" tsk tsk

[cdffirefighter]

All these parents want is money they could give 2 shits about what happend obviously they listend to the band and when everything was said and done they needed some one other than them selves to blame, c'mon if you eat a shit ton of twinkies and develop diabetes are you gonna blame and sue hostess inc. for real you made your bed now you gotta sleep in it, the kids new exactly what they were doing and what the consequences would be dumb little bastards!

[TedFloryd]

All that sick shit around 7 mins is the true cause of this and so much other violence and suffering! Face it retards!

[ma8740]

Messed up parenting is all; the guy's a drug addict and shot himself and whatever he loved was blamed; funny!!!

[loekskywalker]

There is one sublimal message here though -> Download this song: iTunes

[slutypet]

is james vince really blamming judas priest? is he sane?

[MichaelHansenFUN]

00:45 THAT LAWYER THERE IS AN IDIOT AND WAS ON JERRY SPRINGER WITH GG ALLIN!!! ken mckenna is an idiot. dont believe me watch gg allin on springer. 9:19

[EPWantsMe]

Btw, why wasn't Les Binks sued along with them???

He played on the fuckin' album and even co-wrote one of the songs: "Beyond The Realms Of Death".

[EPWantsMe]

I feel this court case was totally absurd for 3 reasons:

(1) The phrase "Do it" could mean a lot of things; it doesn't necessarily mean kill yourself.

(2) "Better By You Better Than Me" wasn't even their song to begin with; it was written by Gary Wright (who also did the song "Dream Weaver"). So why didn't they sue him too, if they thought this song promoted suicide?

(3) It's painfully obvious these kids' parents didn't give a shit about them.

Oh well, fuck them; Hail Priest!!!!

[KrustynailsVideo]

The parents are refusing the fact that THEY are the ones who made their sons feel that way, THEY gave their sons access to a shotgun, and THEY are trying to point fingers because they cannot deal with the guilt of those suicides.

[5thsauce]

damn! !!! this music is good! cant blame the tune but the person and their mental make up

[joeytrimble]

kid at 6:45 is like man i wish i could smoke some pot and put on some priest ...

[bengativo6]

worst part after they blew their faces offf ,james and their family never moved from reno town ,imagine all the people looking them while buying at the local reno grocery stores everyone ,most people pointing your own stupidity at you!!best part he didnt live long enough more than 3 years after the shooting

[frostedhead]

James Vance kinda resemble Mr. Herbert...

[SamTheHammer]

He feels that they "murdered Ray". When do these two take responsibility for their own actions? Did Judas Priest put a gun in the hands of these boys?

Did Judas Priest shoot them? No, they did it to themselves.

[joeytrimble]

@SamTheHammer they don't that's the sad part and the parents never did either they swore up and down the music made them do it personally i think it was a couple of bible thumpers that thought they could get a nice hefty law suit going ... these people are why they have directions on shit ..because you'd have idiots every where doing shit like drinking lighter fluid and eating rat poisioning..

[psicosis91]

@TheFoliageCradle no troll. seriously funny shit

[psicosis91]

lmao! at the mangled face!

[zathras1000]

>>>>>"do IT...." <<<<<<

Do WHAT....???

Blow your head off !-where does it say that ? You stupid C**T..

You got just what you deserve my old chum..sorry,nothing against you personally,but this is stupid personified....the mind boggles...

[iburl]

@zathras1000 One good thing about stupid people is that sometimes they blow their own heads off.

[Yehbytheway]

Music like heavy metal and punk has a very positive effect on alot of people.

It made me more self confident and helped me express myself.

If this was the 50's Jazz and country would be in the dock.

[Slumminbum]

@Yehbytheway As for the parents, aside from the fact that they failed these boys, probably thought that the Beatles were great.

Well the Beatles inspired Charles Manson, didn't they?

[Selesify]

I let my mother watch this and she was disgusted at how idiotic the mothers were, how they were pointing fingers and blaming music instead of looking in the mirror. My mother isn't a fan of heavy metal nor judas priest but she has no problem with me listening to it, and she certainly wouldn't blame my actions on the music. Parents need to start taking responsibility for their stupid kids and themselves.

[joeytrimble]

@Selesify the greatest part of the whole show is that when it comes to the vance mom getting her own life shoved in her face she breaks down and goes "big deal so what you hit me ..drank ..and gambled and beat the kid!" in so many words ...

[DefLeppardVanHalen]

I can tell you straight up, I have heard "Better By You, Better Than Me" many times, fowards, backwards, you name it, and there were no "do it's" in there at all, not even sublimally as they claimed.

[zodiacdrummer66]

What a dumbass

[Dio1Dio2Dio3]

it shouldnt be funny but i laughed my ass off when i saw that dudes mangled face

[dummytree]

Sounds played backwards make different sounds...and thus can be heard/interpreted in different ways.Judas Priest proved it well with their "I asked her for a peppermint" sentence during the trial.When backward segments are purposely put on a record, it's obvious, they've got that typical "sucked in"sound.It's always easier for parents to blame the kind of music kids listen to than it is to look in the mirror and wonder if they gave an adequate education.Those brainwashed conservatives are SCARY

[Misfitsarenumero1]

No offence to this guy but man up James and realize you fucked up and that you are at fault, people neeed to quit blaming things they do on music and movie and video games and other forms of media.

[superjet113]

James Vance = Sanitarium face!  Fuck that punk fuck.

[Arroyo2099]

@superjet113 he died 3 years later. He committed suicide by overdosing on painkillers

[TheBlackStar999]

@superjet113 Leave him alon... just leave him alone! YEAHHHHHH!

[doomsdaygray]

popeye

[TheRalphus666]

These church goers act all holy in church on sunday then go out and smoke crack and fuck a hooker at the no-tell.He makes John Merrick good looking

[TheRalphus666]

There isnt much privacy in Reno I see,looks like your neighbors can hear you fucking

[TheRalphus666]

I remember watchin some bullshit on public television many years ago at around 2 a.m a part of a fuckin porno came on for a good 1/2 hour.Gotta love PBS

[TheRalphus666]

Subliminal messages is such fuckin bullshit.At least this fuckin nitwit will never get laid

[EddietheHead32]

James Vance is one of the most pathetic human beings of I've seen.

[ealvarou111]

@EddietheHead32 i know right i mean come on " i feel they murdered ray" ?

[MetalThrashingMad87]

pretty ironic.

The kid with the deformed face killer himself via an overdose of painkilers in 1990.

that same year judas priest released an album painkiller.

I shouldnt be laughing , but it would be so funny if the parents blamed judas priest for his suicide

[DownKrownKlown]

I was suicidal for many years and METAL did the exact opposite for me, it got me through.

[Boo5552]

@DownKrownKlown Don't drink flouridated water or take antidepressants, or be in the vicinity of chemtrails and you will feel no more depression!

[dozerification]

@DownKrownKlown Yeah man i completely agree.Metal got me through some depressing times.I always found it more of an enlightening thing.It's amazing to see these people who are brainwashed into believing this music is the devils work...What shit..

[Efrasnel]

@DownKrownKlown : I know the feeling.

[joshtowens]

@DownKrownKlown It's such a coincidence that I saw your post.. I feel the EXACT same way. If any music makes me feel like I don't want to live in this world anymore because this world now is so fu**ed up that would be Gospel.. Metal/Hard Rock music for me makes me feel stronger and stand up for myself, and just not give a damn what OTHERS think..

[CraiggyOats]

@DownKrownKlown I agree man...helps my confidence

[Extremmetzger]

great docu! thanx for upload and long live rock 'n' roll!

[thesethingz]

James Vance @ 8:23 says "I feel like they murdered Ray." Well, Priest did NOT supply these 2 guys with the drugs they "chose" to take, the alcohol they "chose" to drink, the 12 gauge shot gun they "chose" to acquire and shoot themselves with upon the agreement of their suicide pact and Priest certainly did NOT hand them the depressive state on which they "chose" to make these horrible, life altering decisions... They made these decisions all on their own.

[Mozzofull1]

@thesethingz and all that happened in about 1985 or 86!! it was alongtime time ago!!

[mrduffy1100]

@thesethingz He was suicidaly depressed, he had a weird childhood, seen his best friend blow his head off, he then blew half his own face off, and now has millions watching and listening to him on TV. The only hope left he thinks, and is told, is to get some cash form the band. Go easy on James Vance he may not be thinking straight.

[charlesvan13]

A video resonse to "Blastaface"?

[MondoBeno]

P.O.V. has the best documentaries.

Thank you for posting this.

[Madgecko1000]

Why does everytime a kid dies they´re parents have to blame something else for they´re death? Its music, movies and now videogames. people should just take responsability for their own acts. It was the kids fault they died, and parenting fail to let them pick up a weapon in the first place.

[joeytrimble]

i love the lord and i love rock and roll music .. i do nor will i live in a prison state

[naits95]

Where did you get these videos?!

[Concern4US]

Great vids. Thanks for adding them.