Derek Bell - Absolutely & without question the best driver ever as far as documentaries etc are concerned.Only Stirling Moss is in the same category as far as being extremely articulate, well-spoken & charismatic is concerned.Look at today´s drivers - most of them can´t string a couple of sentences together & if they can, you have probably fallen asleep by the time they have finished, due to extreme boredom.Well done Bell & Moss for your verbal skills! Your driving skills require no comment.
ppl go all crazy saying the veyron is Concorde no the hell it anit cars like the 917 787b mercedes sauber gt40 these car were made in the last 60 early 70 and 80 and will whoop the shit out of any car in the present day veyron does 0-60 in 2.5 sec the 917 did it in 2.3 and that was because the engines put out 1100 to 1500 no wonder it still hold the record at the nurburgring it was doing 260+ on the straights this concord not the veyron
@LUPENTV07 The 917 did NOT produce that amount of power at the Nurburgring. The record there is held by a 956. The only Porsche that ever produced that amount of power was the 917/30 CanAm car, which only raced in North America, never at Le Mans.
Derek is an absolute class act and he wrote me a hand written letter when I wrote to him about obtaining sponsorship and possibly moving to Europe to race in F3.
@TheBarrett1971 That claim has been rising for 30 years. It was originally propounded by Ian Bamsey and is not supported by any information I have from the Porsche museum. It is not supported by any of the speed trap times from the 1971 race either. The first time I heard it was in the 1970s when it was claimed at 240mph (386kmh). Now people are claiming that speed for the Kurtz version! A bit of an exaggeration here a bit of wishful thinking there and pretty soon it becomes motor racing myth.
@Camerameister No it was the long tail version and if you can find a Guinness Book of records from 1985 it had the top speed higher then the one I quoted.
@TheBarrett1971 Yes, I know it was the long tail version. But even with low drag bodywork, the power output is not sufficient to go that quick. Also back then power transmission was not as efficient as it is now and you get to a point where the gearing is just too tall. There's no point comparing it to the Ferrari. It had about 20-30 more horsepower with lower frontal area. Didn't stop a Ferrari being quicker in practice in 1971 though (official speed trap figures).
@Camerameister Porsche had a top end listed on the Can Am Donohue car as being around 385km.h or about 240. Yes it had more power but the top end was not where the longtail was at.
@TheBarrett1971 Porsche917 has some awesome stories you should love reading. It wont let me put the dotcomdotar after that but it is awesome reading my friend.
@Camerameister Yes I know it was a totally different car, the point being it was not as aerodynamic and I know the power output trust me have been reading and studying these cars my whole life. The 917 was faster then the Ferrari and the long tail was even more so.
@TheBarrett1971 "The 917 was faster then the Ferrari and the long tail was even more so." As a general rule perhaps but not as an absolute. The speed trap figures from 1971 do not support this. I also do not accept as an absolute that the Kurtz version was faster (in a straight line) than the Ferrari. In practice for the 1971 Le Mans, the Ferrari was faster.
I have been following this as long as you have. First time I remember reading about it was 1974...
@Camerameister Then we do certainly have alot in common. The speed of the Mercedes C111 as far as looking at all the technology that has changed since that car ran, would seem cars have came so far yet it had a speed record that stood for a very long time. The longtail made such a joke on the straight of the regular 917 the Ferrari had no chance of putting out a top speed that was equal. Without a doubt the 917 is the greatest car to every race and the legend will always be there.
@TheBarrett1971 "The longtail made such a joke on the straight of the regular 917 the Ferrari had no chance of putting out a top speed that was equal."
The 1971 speed trap figures don't support this. True in the race but not in practice.
"Without a doubt the 917 is the greatest car to every race and the legend will always be there."
I'm not a believer in absolutes and while I have always believed the 917 to be the best there are plenty who might say the Mercedes W125 was better.
@Camerameister Well if Porsche was smart enough to sandbag the car that was just great strategy, but the times I have seen in practice were far higher. So our source data must not be the same. Opinions are what everyone will think about being right, the W125 was awesome of course, but to me the 917 will hold the top place always. Jimmy Clark the greatest driver, etc etc
@TheBarrett1971 My source is the Auto Club L'Ouest, who have provided the timings since 1961 Their readings can be found in the Autotechnica Annual. Who is the source for the times you have seen? Ian Bamsey, who seems to be responsible for most of this, has never cited any of his claims. I notice now that Supercars website have quoted a ridiculous 254mph - again with no sources quoted. The bidding war just got ratcheted up to the point of parody.
@Camerameister My source was from the site I quoted above, the link would not post so I had to spell the letters out. The simple fact is the Porsche won the race and the longtail being faster then all others that year. The 917 is everything a race car can and should be, and will be the legend that all other cars want to have.
@Camerameister Don't bother. Found it. I've seen that site before. The author does not quote a source for his speed claims. I mean a data source like speed trap read outs. These are quite easy to obtain. That site also claims that the 917 top speed is the highest EVER reached at Le Mans and it doesn't take much research to prove this wrong. The Peugeot WM from 1988 was faster. So was the Sauber the following year.
@Camerameister Yes the Guiness 85 said the 917 hit 257 in qualifying, their number not mine. The site I am referring to will not let me just copy and paste it. Porsche917dotcomdotar look at 1971 season.
That just has to be bollocks. I know a few aeronautical engineers who I worked with on an F1-based project about 10 years ago. There's no way they'd believe this figure.I'll try to dig them up. The bottom line is that the power output just wouldn't be enough to do it. We're talking 630hp and to go from 239 to 257 requires a lot more than that. You'd need something like 700 which it couldn't do (remember, it was made from 908 bits).
@TheBarrett1971 I've had a look at that site. Good basic history, much of it drawn from publications of the era. I'd still be curious to know what the source of the figure was. I've never heard Oliver claim it. Porsche won't confirm it (I asked). They won't deny it either - methinks it sells cars!
I am still awaiting a reply from Porsche re: their aero figures for this car. I doubt if they will ever come through. My guess is they don't want it tested.
@Camerameister Well the simple facts are we both love cars so we have alot in common, just don't agree on everything. The 917 will always be the most ultimate machine ever to me. Nice talking with you.
@TheBarrett1971 It's worth mentioning the horsepower of the 917 and the efficiency of the shape. Remember that it wasn't until 1988 that a car exceeded 400kmh at Le Mans and that one - a Peugeot - had 900hp on tap. The Porsche had 620. While the Peugeot had ground effects, they were relatively minor and it was designed for straight line speed. It's L/D ratio was not likely to be much worse than the 917. Might even have been better, since the Porsche had no undertray.
@TheBarrett1971 Not wanting to be a PITA or accuse you of anything, the SERA computer predicted 239mph and that is all Porsche will claim for it. The museum in Stuttgart has a 1971 Langheck on display and it is this type which is in question. There has even been speculation that the timing equipment was faulty (it was a private testing weekend in April) because the highest speed recorded in 1971 was 359kmh by a Ferrari in practice and 362kmh by a Porsche in the race.
@Camerameister I have been to the Porsche museum, and the longtail was capable of massive speed and on the straight would of leveled the Ferrari's top end. It had a far higher top end then the eventual winner and of course would have won if not for problems.
@HughJass125 Some were, some weren't. The 1971 LH was well designed but did not have an undertray which would have meant that the practical drag would have been necessarily greater than what they had in the wind tunnel.
The K was not very aerodynamic at all, especially at the rear, where the drag penalty would have been very high.
The 1971 LH was a very different design from the other Porsches. It had a totally redesigned front air dam, lower sidepods and partially enclosed rear wheels.
@Suprahampton all gears were pretty tall with 600+ hp and a car made from fiberglass and lightweight frame the car would still accelerate like a bullet
Is he driving it at Moroso in Florida? If so, that must be like racing Secretariat in your guest bathroom at home because that is way too much car for that track.
If you want to drive this car and cars of this era try rfactor pc game with wsc 1970 mod in it. It`s сool! Very realistic in both simulation and sound.
246 mph........4spd gearbox................i actually wiped my eyes listening to this horse. seriously. this thing was probably quicker than most smaller road cars mid to 3/4 rev range in first gear.the word awesome was created for a reason, to describe automobile art.
beautiful car. Gulf vinyls are the best. It does look like they didn't even bother with a rear bumper because you would be so far ahead of everyone else.
Why couldn't Porsche have done something like this again in the mid-90s...You know, when Bill Gates was REALLY, REALLY FILTHY, STINKING RICH. I've sometimes imagined a 911 GT1 with a liquid-cooled flat-12 instead of the twin-turbo boxer-6, nice as it was. I need to stop dreaming and wake up now...Aw, leave me alone and let me sleep!
The turbo version of this car is the car that basically killed the greatest racing series ever, the Can-Am Series. It was so dominant (and expensive, and unsafe) that all other competitors saw the imposibility of competing with it, and so the series basically dried up and died.
I want the dvd o this. What a beast of a car. Supercars come and super cars go - but there will always be the 917. I touched No.20 at goodwood festival o speed. If I sat in the damn thing I'd shed tears - tears o joy! Long live the marque
Is there any replica engines out there? What I mean is....Has anyone tried to reproduce the flat 12 air cooled in a crate/kit engine form? I would love to build a car like this. Maybe even make a life long project (at least 15 years).
@bebowilliams: WerkzCars in Australia build a beautiful replica of a 1970 or 1971 917 but not with the 12 cylinder engine. You can use pretty much any flat 6 in it. Probably goes just as quick too!
Go to their website and have a look. I think you would be impressed.
@kblackav8or: Yes. The original 917 engine was built using 908 pistons, conrods, liners, valve gear etc. Porsche aimed to get 120hp/litre out of it - same as the 908. That would have meant 700hp for the 5 litre version but this didn't happen. The highest power output for any normally aspirated 917 was around 630.
The Can Am cars ran at massive boost which caused torsional problems with the crankcase, a long-term 917 problem and the reason why the engine was not a stressed chassis member.
Not on the surface that's true but the increase in horsepower required is more than most people realise. You have to take into account the Velocity Squared Law (drag increases with the square of the velocity) so it might require say an extra 30 HP to achieve that 7mph increase (I don't know the exact figure but the increase is exponential, not linear).
To make it a bit simpler, in raw terms, to double the speed requires four times the power output so a small increase like that - when the engine is already working at maximum power - will require more than a few extra horses to achieve.
Actually, air resistance goes up with the square of speed; power needs go up with the CUBE of speed. Twice the speed requires 8 times the power (2 cubed).
You sure? Not that I don't believe you but I haven't studied this for ages. You are probably right. Either way, it only adds to the point that some of the speeds claimed for this car are a bit far-fetched.
did you know that porsche had a proven 16 cylinder 5 litre to drop straight in place of the 12 if anyone started beating them i have all the details and pictures of it in a book titled 'the fabulous 917' at first glance it looks the same as the 12 until you count the trumpets
True, but every supercar must be maintained very methodicaly. If I was working at Porsche... DREAM!! I would say to myself... If the Audi R15, and Puegot 908 are so special.. why not make a new P1 class using a Flat 12 to kick ass and take names...even if the car only competed for 2 years... it would be sweet to see a Closed cockpit Porsche roaring down Le Sarth in a Flat 12... I know Porsche is owned by VW.. which also owns Audi.. maybe a conflict???
Oh Wow! The heroes and idols from my youth. The golden age of racing and drivers. I only got to read about or see on TV-wish I was there. Met Derek Bell last year at the opening of a Porsche race shop in Maryland. Just as healthy and sharp as ever. Ageless. Went to Rennsport III reunion @ Daytona in 2007. Lined up on pit road was heaven. All the famous 917's 908's, 956's and 963's...Mark Donohue's car, so many many others. All I coulddo was stand there with a stupified grin for 5minutes-LOVE
Just a great and entertaining video which captivates my imagination everytime I view it! Something about the air cooled engines and the wonderful sounds they make has put a spell on me since the 1960's. Will never drive a 917 but everytime I climb into my 993 Carrera I feel like I'm at Le Mans with the biggest smile on my face! :-)
what a beast of a car! 246 mph... and now everyone gathers around those silly bugatti veyrons, with their wasteful quad-turbo charged W16's... flat 12, normall aspirated, 246mph, and probably the most visceral driving experience of all time.
i know they're not comparable... but there's a point to be had i suppose. :)
yes! i think the exact same thing! if they can get the power of a v12 down onto the road for 246mph why cant designers do it now? we need to go back to basics!
The 917 LH "Langheck" reached 240 (386 kph) in private testing, not during qualifying or the race (it hit 362 kph in the 1971 race). That was the highest it got and was still pretty amazing for its day (see Mulsanne's corner website for full details).
It could do it because it had very little down force resulting in lower L/D ratio. Power was "only" 630 HP compared with 800 for a Sauber C9 which reached 400 kph in qualifying in 1989. The Sauber had full ground effects and a higher L/D.
@Camerameister Ya i am sure you know more than racers such as Bell? stfu. Porsche was scrutinized because they dominated Lemans, it wasnt just the Racers that showed how fast the 917 and 956s were. it was every expert and enthusiasts that were present then. so schnauze du fotze!!!!!!!!!!
So I have to believe you or not be one of the cool kids?
I like Derek Bell. Always have but I don't have to do chin ups on everything he says.
Highest speed trap figures ever recorded for a 917 at Le Mans at the race were 224.4mph. That's the OFFICIAL figure from the Autotechnica Le Mans Annual. I've been watching this figure grow for 35 years and it's turning into a bidding war with everyone trying to out do each other.
@gjledo Because those cars didn't have as much downforce and the mulsanne straight has chicanes now. If you were to give a Toyota GT-One that much road and lowered the downforce and set the transmission right it could probably hit 246 with ease. But then it wouldn't be as fast in other sections.
where can I get this on dvd, so I can hear outta both ears, when this vid was first uploaded I used to watch it, the sound came outta both left and right, now only right, why ?
I also don´t where u can get it. To serve the other problem, I would say, go and see your doctor to get your ears checked, or maybe fix your PCs sound system.
just went to the monteray historics, this year porsche was the highlight brand was porsche, 6 917k's.. the red n white 23, one yellow, n 3 gulf 917, including 917-022, the #20 movie car! met Vic, Brian and Stirling! EVERYBODY has to go when porsche is the highlight again!
Its realeased as "Die Porsche Dokumentation" in Germany. Perhaps you can find it on VHS or DVDvia Amazon. Good Luck. It´s a reall good doc. Dereck drives nearly every fmous Porsche Sportscar.
I Love this car & i love the Ford GT 40. They both pushed the Boundries & Beyond. And yes i have visited the Ferrari Factory in Maranello. Pieces of art all of them.
Derek Bell, he raced one at le-mans and if your into theses cars then the film to watch is le-mans starring steve mcqueen. dereck bell did a lot of the driving in the film and a lot of the footage was taken from the 1970 race. If you want to see one up close the place to go is the Goodwood Festival of Speed . To say these cars overshadow anything else would be an understatement!
Major "understatement" as you say. I didn't know Bell drove in "Le Mans" the movie. I get the chills even watching this. Imagine driving one of these at speed down the Mulsanne straight at 230MPH. All I can say is that who did or could, had balls of steel. Granted todays F1 drivers are amazing...but really, do they compare...do they really??!!
Derek was assigned as Siegfried Rauch''s (Erich Stahler) driving double so he drove the Ferrari 512 in the movie. His car caught fire towards the end of the shoot and Derek suffered some nasty burns.
A Veyron beating a car purpose built like the 917? Maybe in a straight line but I highly doubt it around a circuit. And then introduce the 917/30 and the Veyron falls even further behind. Would be whipped and whipped badly.
In its day this was the best sports car on the planet and trying to devalue it or play that down based on todays technology is childish and slightly ridiculous. See one, hear one and read about the car and you'll appreciate why it has such a powerful image and presence within Petrolhead circles and because some VW is potentially quicker down a straight road means NOTHING, it is an utter irrelevance in fact!
Why does YouTube ALWAYS get people, usually people who garner their knowledge from other idiots or worse Wikipedia, comparing stuff with other stuff on these sorts of videos? The same lines, the same arguments all with nothing of relevance to the video only to try and emphasise why the poster on their bedroom wall is the best and why it would own another car to use the most appropriate youth speak. Comparing a car from 1970/71 with a car from 21st century is ludicrous and childish.
oh God! Too many bullshit for such a legendary car... Go and comment a 1/4 mile race between two japanese cars... I have not against jap cars, but I think that´s more appropriate for that kind of... whatever...
I sat in that car. even though he stood still, but it was great
hessel192 3 weeks ago
God damn that's hot. It does give you goosebumps!
mz9393mz 2 months ago
what would happen if they had put a turbo in it
gulistanpk 4 months ago
@gulistanpk they did, in the 917/30, qualifying spec it had 1500 horsepower and did 0-60 in 2.3 seconds!!
Vudo865 3 months ago
@Vudo865 jealous to anyone who got to see that car... 1500 HP!!!
accordv6er 2 months ago
what is the name of the Documentary this clip is from?
seroyer2 5 months ago
Driving starts at 2:10
dabysk 6 months ago
A true automotive symphony.
tokyosmash 6 months ago
What show is this from?
riseofthefallen301 6 months ago
That car isn't even breaking a sweat
bajacore 6 months ago
I am a Ferrari fan, but who isn't a 917 fan!?!
rztibbs 6 months ago 6
the design is beautifull... you can still see the shape in today's auddi
kinmanyuen 7 months ago
Derek Bell - Absolutely & without question the best driver ever as far as documentaries etc are concerned.Only Stirling Moss is in the same category as far as being extremely articulate, well-spoken & charismatic is concerned.Look at today´s drivers - most of them can´t string a couple of sentences together & if they can, you have probably fallen asleep by the time they have finished, due to extreme boredom.Well done Bell & Moss for your verbal skills! Your driving skills require no comment.
JoeDuveen 7 months ago
only car to scare the crap out of my dad!
MILTMINTERJR 8 months ago
@IHOPairsoft
prancinghorse25 9 months ago
Does anyone know what program this segment was taken from? If it's something available to buy I'll do it in a heartbeat.
VMIFerrari 9 months ago
917 was so badly behaving car that others pulled themselves to the side of track when 917 was coming to stay alive.
the13er 9 months ago
that race driver Derek Bell is one lucky man !
thenicedudejay 9 months ago
there's a voice in the background.
sirrisracing 10 months ago
ppl go all crazy saying the veyron is Concorde no the hell it anit cars like the 917 787b mercedes sauber gt40 these car were made in the last 60 early 70 and 80 and will whoop the shit out of any car in the present day veyron does 0-60 in 2.5 sec the 917 did it in 2.3 and that was because the engines put out 1100 to 1500 no wonder it still hold the record at the nurburgring it was doing 260+ on the straights this concord not the veyron
LUPENTV07 10 months ago
@LUPENTV07 The 917 did NOT produce that amount of power at the Nurburgring. The record there is held by a 956. The only Porsche that ever produced that amount of power was the 917/30 CanAm car, which only raced in North America, never at Le Mans.
Camerameister 8 months ago
i think i just jizzed continously for a whole 4 minutes and 23 seconds.
TtimWh 10 months ago
@TtimWh i think theres 2 of us
Specialized1989 10 months ago
in my opinion best looking porsches: 935/78 "Moby Dick" and 917
F1guy1 10 months ago
Derek is an absolute class act and he wrote me a hand written letter when I wrote to him about obtaining sponsorship and possibly moving to Europe to race in F3.
epistte 11 months ago
Excuse me while I scrape my jaw off of the floor.
EvilWizardMaltheore 11 months ago
246mph with only 4spds?! Damn thats a tall 4th gear
Suprahampton 1 year ago 27
@Suprahampton Never did 246mph. I like and respect Derek Bell but that figure is not correct.
Camerameister 8 months ago
@Camerameister 396.004 km/h was the fastest time clocked by a 917 driven by Jackie Olivier during a night practice.
TheBarrett1971 8 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 That claim has been rising for 30 years. It was originally propounded by Ian Bamsey and is not supported by any information I have from the Porsche museum. It is not supported by any of the speed trap times from the 1971 race either. The first time I heard it was in the 1970s when it was claimed at 240mph (386kmh). Now people are claiming that speed for the Kurtz version! A bit of an exaggeration here a bit of wishful thinking there and pretty soon it becomes motor racing myth.
Camerameister 8 months ago
@Camerameister No it was the long tail version and if you can find a Guinness Book of records from 1985 it had the top speed higher then the one I quoted.
TheBarrett1971 8 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 Yes, I know it was the long tail version. But even with low drag bodywork, the power output is not sufficient to go that quick. Also back then power transmission was not as efficient as it is now and you get to a point where the gearing is just too tall. There's no point comparing it to the Ferrari. It had about 20-30 more horsepower with lower frontal area. Didn't stop a Ferrari being quicker in practice in 1971 though (official speed trap figures).
Camerameister 8 months ago
@Camerameister Porsche had a top end listed on the Can Am Donohue car as being around 385km.h or about 240. Yes it had more power but the top end was not where the longtail was at.
TheBarrett1971 8 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 Porsche917 has some awesome stories you should love reading. It wont let me put the dotcomdotar after that but it is awesome reading my friend.
TheBarrett1971 8 months ago
Comment removed
Camerameister 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheBarrett1971 That was a totally different car with nearly double the power output.
Camerameister 8 months ago
@Camerameister Yes I know it was a totally different car, the point being it was not as aerodynamic and I know the power output trust me have been reading and studying these cars my whole life. The 917 was faster then the Ferrari and the long tail was even more so.
TheBarrett1971 8 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 "The 917 was faster then the Ferrari and the long tail was even more so." As a general rule perhaps but not as an absolute. The speed trap figures from 1971 do not support this. I also do not accept as an absolute that the Kurtz version was faster (in a straight line) than the Ferrari. In practice for the 1971 Le Mans, the Ferrari was faster.
I have been following this as long as you have. First time I remember reading about it was 1974...
Camerameister 8 months ago
@Camerameister Then we do certainly have alot in common. The speed of the Mercedes C111 as far as looking at all the technology that has changed since that car ran, would seem cars have came so far yet it had a speed record that stood for a very long time. The longtail made such a joke on the straight of the regular 917 the Ferrari had no chance of putting out a top speed that was equal. Without a doubt the 917 is the greatest car to every race and the legend will always be there.
TheBarrett1971 8 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 "The longtail made such a joke on the straight of the regular 917 the Ferrari had no chance of putting out a top speed that was equal."
The 1971 speed trap figures don't support this. True in the race but not in practice.
"Without a doubt the 917 is the greatest car to every race and the legend will always be there."
I'm not a believer in absolutes and while I have always believed the 917 to be the best there are plenty who might say the Mercedes W125 was better.
Camerameister 8 months ago
@Camerameister Well if Porsche was smart enough to sandbag the car that was just great strategy, but the times I have seen in practice were far higher. So our source data must not be the same. Opinions are what everyone will think about being right, the W125 was awesome of course, but to me the 917 will hold the top place always. Jimmy Clark the greatest driver, etc etc
TheBarrett1971 7 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 My source is the Auto Club L'Ouest, who have provided the timings since 1961 Their readings can be found in the Autotechnica Annual. Who is the source for the times you have seen? Ian Bamsey, who seems to be responsible for most of this, has never cited any of his claims. I notice now that Supercars website have quoted a ridiculous 254mph - again with no sources quoted. The bidding war just got ratcheted up to the point of parody.
Camerameister 7 months ago
@Camerameister My source was from the site I quoted above, the link would not post so I had to spell the letters out. The simple fact is the Porsche won the race and the longtail being faster then all others that year. The 917 is everything a race car can and should be, and will be the legend that all other cars want to have.
TheBarrett1971 7 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 Sorry, which site is that?
All I saw was a reference to the Guiness Book of Records from the mid 1980s.
Camerameister 7 months ago
@Camerameister Don't bother. Found it. I've seen that site before. The author does not quote a source for his speed claims. I mean a data source like speed trap read outs. These are quite easy to obtain. That site also claims that the 917 top speed is the highest EVER reached at Le Mans and it doesn't take much research to prove this wrong. The Peugeot WM from 1988 was faster. So was the Sauber the following year.
The bidding war continues...
Camerameister 7 months ago
@Camerameister Yes the Guiness 85 said the 917 hit 257 in qualifying, their number not mine. The site I am referring to will not let me just copy and paste it. Porsche917dotcomdotar look at 1971 season.
TheBarrett1971 7 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 That's okay. I don't blame you.
That just has to be bollocks. I know a few aeronautical engineers who I worked with on an F1-based project about 10 years ago. There's no way they'd believe this figure.I'll try to dig them up. The bottom line is that the power output just wouldn't be enough to do it. We're talking 630hp and to go from 239 to 257 requires a lot more than that. You'd need something like 700 which it couldn't do (remember, it was made from 908 bits).
Camerameister 7 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 I've had a look at that site. Good basic history, much of it drawn from publications of the era. I'd still be curious to know what the source of the figure was. I've never heard Oliver claim it. Porsche won't confirm it (I asked). They won't deny it either - methinks it sells cars!
I am still awaiting a reply from Porsche re: their aero figures for this car. I doubt if they will ever come through. My guess is they don't want it tested.
Camerameister 7 months ago
@Camerameister Well the simple facts are we both love cars so we have alot in common, just don't agree on everything. The 917 will always be the most ultimate machine ever to me. Nice talking with you.
TheBarrett1971 7 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 Yeah good to have a civilised discussion. don't see much of that on YT.
Camerameister 7 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 It's worth mentioning the horsepower of the 917 and the efficiency of the shape. Remember that it wasn't until 1988 that a car exceeded 400kmh at Le Mans and that one - a Peugeot - had 900hp on tap. The Porsche had 620. While the Peugeot had ground effects, they were relatively minor and it was designed for straight line speed. It's L/D ratio was not likely to be much worse than the 917. Might even have been better, since the Porsche had no undertray.
Camerameister 8 months ago
@TheBarrett1971 Not wanting to be a PITA or accuse you of anything, the SERA computer predicted 239mph and that is all Porsche will claim for it. The museum in Stuttgart has a 1971 Langheck on display and it is this type which is in question. There has even been speculation that the timing equipment was faulty (it was a private testing weekend in April) because the highest speed recorded in 1971 was 359kmh by a Ferrari in practice and 362kmh by a Porsche in the race.
Camerameister 8 months ago
@Camerameister I have been to the Porsche museum, and the longtail was capable of massive speed and on the straight would of leveled the Ferrari's top end. It had a far higher top end then the eventual winner and of course would have won if not for problems.
TheBarrett1971 8 months ago
@Suprahampton
And an extremely aerodynamic car.
HughJass125 7 months ago
@HughJass125 Some were, some weren't. The 1971 LH was well designed but did not have an undertray which would have meant that the practical drag would have been necessarily greater than what they had in the wind tunnel.
The K was not very aerodynamic at all, especially at the rear, where the drag penalty would have been very high.
The 1971 LH was a very different design from the other Porsches. It had a totally redesigned front air dam, lower sidepods and partially enclosed rear wheels.
Camerameister 7 months ago
@Suprahampton all gears were pretty tall with 600+ hp and a car made from fiberglass and lightweight frame the car would still accelerate like a bullet
citydriver 7 months ago
@citydriver 1.8 sec 0-60
TheChiefsLeuven 7 months ago
@Suprahampton and 0-60 in 1.8 sec with no automatic gearbox or anything!
TheChiefsLeuven 7 months ago
holy damn that car makes me horny!
flat6pilot 1 year ago 2
Are 13 people here Ferrari fans?
Marillionado 1 year ago 21
@Marillionado yea but they've gone off to rebuild their engines ha
fucem1 8 months ago
@Marillionado maybe ford gt40 fans who knows
arospeed169 7 months ago
Porsche 917/30 has got 1100 - 1500 HP / 747kg.
petrkrska 1 year ago
@petrkrska The 917/30 did not race in Europe.
Camerameister 8 months ago
PLEASE FIX THE AUDIO AND REPOST!!!!!
jjames05 1 year ago
Is he driving it at Moroso in Florida? If so, that must be like racing Secretariat in your guest bathroom at home because that is way too much car for that track.
Pintac87 1 year ago
In my all time top 3 favorite race cars.
And lovin the Meters at the beginnin!!!
dunkdrag 1 year ago
If you want to drive this car and cars of this era try rfactor pc game with wsc 1970 mod in it. It`s сool! Very realistic in both simulation and sound.
odrwon 1 year ago
Oh mein gott!
coach777777 1 year ago
On the track scenes the car looks much bigger. Actually is a very small car (nearly a Peugeot 307).
Face of Le Mans + Porsche + Gulf. Awesome car !
pablof59 1 year ago
Beautful noise...... a howling 4.5-4.0 litre Flat-12. Air-Cooled, too.
thevmanvj 1 year ago
I think i saw one of these today, it said 917 on the back and looked similar.
GattiF50 1 year ago
worlds fastest death box
g0ing2n0where 1 year ago
246 mph........4spd gearbox................i actually wiped my eyes listening to this horse. seriously. this thing was probably quicker than most smaller road cars mid to 3/4 rev range in first gear.the word awesome was created for a reason, to describe automobile art.
JohnnyGasTank 1 year ago
beautiful car. Gulf vinyls are the best. It does look like they didn't even bother with a rear bumper because you would be so far ahead of everyone else.
thestig1214 1 year ago
how fast??
Nazron1 1 year ago
@Nazron1 240+ down mulsanne
vivaSchumi7 1 year ago
@vivaSchumi7 Only happened once and that was with the long tail. Never happened with this model.
Camerameister 8 months ago
the soul of this car is like Mclareen F1
0210682522 1 year ago
homo!!
brutus930 1 year ago
can anyone else hear whipspers????
really...
luedriver 1 year ago
@luedriver yea i do, somewhere in the midle of the video
wgrw 1 year ago
Nice
davdoan 1 year ago
It bullied the bullies.
Airrachet 1 year ago
what a sound.
OmegaAbyss 1 year ago
Why couldn't Porsche have done something like this again in the mid-90s...You know, when Bill Gates was REALLY, REALLY FILTHY, STINKING RICH. I've sometimes imagined a 911 GT1 with a liquid-cooled flat-12 instead of the twin-turbo boxer-6, nice as it was. I need to stop dreaming and wake up now...Aw, leave me alone and let me sleep!
krislyttle 1 year ago
sounds like some demonic beast just ready to tear your face off.... :D
szeeck 1 year ago
The turbo version of this car is the car that basically killed the greatest racing series ever, the Can-Am Series. It was so dominant (and expensive, and unsafe) that all other competitors saw the imposibility of competing with it, and so the series basically dried up and died.
JGMagoo 1 year ago
and when you see how old it is.. and still can beat actual cars...
petr459 1 year ago
Air cooled?!?!! 8O. Wow amazing.
eulluisgtr34 1 year ago
I want the dvd o this. What a beast of a car. Supercars come and super cars go - but there will always be the 917. I touched No.20 at goodwood festival o speed. If I sat in the damn thing I'd shed tears - tears o joy! Long live the marque
verdeboyo 1 year ago
Agreed, great video, thanks for posting this
FuelSniffer 1 year ago 2
Sensational car and video...
RickyJ46 1 year ago
This car, this beauty is an astonishing masterpiece!
f0XxXxXxX 1 year ago
Is there any replica engines out there? What I mean is....Has anyone tried to reproduce the flat 12 air cooled in a crate/kit engine form? I would love to build a car like this. Maybe even make a life long project (at least 15 years).
bebowilliams 1 year ago
@bebowilliams: WerkzCars in Australia build a beautiful replica of a 1970 or 1971 917 but not with the 12 cylinder engine. You can use pretty much any flat 6 in it. Probably goes just as quick too!
Go to their website and have a look. I think you would be impressed.
Camerameister 1 year ago
Thanks man.
bebowilliams 1 year ago
Glad to help. :)
Camerameister 1 year ago
If there's a death road, this car rides it... lol.
Nymphetamine2791 1 year ago
the 917K, or gulf Cars sound soo much different than the Ferrari 512S's and Ms,
Albeit , they are both 12 cyl cars, one a flat 12, and the other a V-12,
The Ferrari is like a loud giant ready to eat you up if you dont pay attention,
the 917 is smoother and more precise sounding with all the jet like cam whine and porsche technology,
The Ferrari sound's like it wants to eat the whole race and track too,
kirkconway 1 year ago
The 917/30 engine was tweaked to produce 1500 HP for a closed course record on one of the NASCAR tracks.
CellTowerNIMBY 1 year ago
@CellTowerNIMBY
Weren't those turbocharged to get that power?
kblackav8or 1 year ago
@kblackav8or: Yes. The original 917 engine was built using 908 pistons, conrods, liners, valve gear etc. Porsche aimed to get 120hp/litre out of it - same as the 908. That would have meant 700hp for the 5 litre version but this didn't happen. The highest power output for any normally aspirated 917 was around 630.
The Can Am cars ran at massive boost which caused torsional problems with the crankcase, a long-term 917 problem and the reason why the engine was not a stressed chassis member.
Camerameister 1 year ago
@Camerameister
that still is a lot considering the engine was made for endurance racing and ran on 1000km races and the 24 hours of LeMans
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
@CellTowerNIMBY
Yeah, that was Mark Donahue on Talladega 1975.
The same tweaked car saw 259mph (417km/h) on the back straight of Paul Ricard, France one year earlier.
Porsche planned to race a 1500hp version in the 1974 season, but then the turbo ban was imposed...
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
Scared many experienced drivers. Huge power. Awesome!
RikterZilla 1 year ago
My favourite race car ever! The 917/30.
bentleyv8t 2 years ago
What a beautiful Porsche. To hear that gear driven flat twelve.....
5769JJ 2 years ago
246 is not that much of an exaggeration from 239mph
Nblock487 2 years ago
Not on the surface that's true but the increase in horsepower required is more than most people realise. You have to take into account the Velocity Squared Law (drag increases with the square of the velocity) so it might require say an extra 30 HP to achieve that 7mph increase (I don't know the exact figure but the increase is exponential, not linear).
Hope this helps.
Camerameister 2 years ago
To make it a bit simpler, in raw terms, to double the speed requires four times the power output so a small increase like that - when the engine is already working at maximum power - will require more than a few extra horses to achieve.
Camerameister 2 years ago
Actually, air resistance goes up with the square of speed; power needs go up with the CUBE of speed. Twice the speed requires 8 times the power (2 cubed).
beeroosterm 1 year ago
You sure? Not that I don't believe you but I haven't studied this for ages. You are probably right. Either way, it only adds to the point that some of the speeds claimed for this car are a bit far-fetched.
Thanks for your input. I'll check my facts.
Camerameister 1 year ago
did you know that porsche had a proven 16 cylinder 5 litre to drop straight in place of the 12 if anyone started beating them i have all the details and pictures of it in a book titled 'the fabulous 917' at first glance it looks the same as the 12 until you count the trumpets
vjckuk 2 years ago
imho..the most beautiful car, ever. thanks!
ratfinkdc 2 years ago
True, but every supercar must be maintained very methodicaly. If I was working at Porsche... DREAM!! I would say to myself... If the Audi R15, and Puegot 908 are so special.. why not make a new P1 class using a Flat 12 to kick ass and take names...even if the car only competed for 2 years... it would be sweet to see a Closed cockpit Porsche roaring down Le Sarth in a Flat 12... I know Porsche is owned by VW.. which also owns Audi.. maybe a conflict???
SPECTER066 2 years ago
America has NOTHING on this beauty.
orochimaruisugly 2 years ago
no, we just beat porches ass every year with the c5r, c6r
Brian500R 2 years ago
Comment removed
elsuperjeffe 2 years ago
you mean when corvette was the only one in GT1! glad they won - would've been a bit of an embarrassment if they hadn't eh?
elsuperjeffe 2 years ago
haha, i got the email of the other reply you posted but then retracted when i guess you googled it and found out i was right.
its ok, i wont tell anyone what your dumbass said.
Brian500R 2 years ago
Oh Wow! The heroes and idols from my youth. The golden age of racing and drivers. I only got to read about or see on TV-wish I was there. Met Derek Bell last year at the opening of a Porsche race shop in Maryland. Just as healthy and sharp as ever. Ageless. Went to Rennsport III reunion @ Daytona in 2007. Lined up on pit road was heaven. All the famous 917's 908's, 956's and 963's...Mark Donohue's car, so many many others. All I coulddo was stand there with a stupified grin for 5minutes-LOVE
madlyone2 2 years ago
Best car ever
Carlegends 2 years ago
"It was absolutely diabolical...my greatest moment in a 917 was when I got out of it at the end of a race." -Brian Redman
CintiSlider 2 years ago 14
Just a great and entertaining video which captivates my imagination everytime I view it! Something about the air cooled engines and the wonderful sounds they make has put a spell on me since the 1960's. Will never drive a 917 but everytime I climb into my 993 Carrera I feel like I'm at Le Mans with the biggest smile on my face! :-)
pepperschatz 2 years ago
flat 12...with pressurized chassis!?! greatest sports car ever
vodderman 2 years ago
what a beast of a car! 246 mph... and now everyone gathers around those silly bugatti veyrons, with their wasteful quad-turbo charged W16's... flat 12, normall aspirated, 246mph, and probably the most visceral driving experience of all time.
i know they're not comparable... but there's a point to be had i suppose. :)
thalkettoth 2 years ago
yes! i think the exact same thing! if they can get the power of a v12 down onto the road for 246mph why cant designers do it now? we need to go back to basics!
gjledo 2 years ago 2
The 917 LH "Langheck" reached 240 (386 kph) in private testing, not during qualifying or the race (it hit 362 kph in the 1971 race). That was the highest it got and was still pretty amazing for its day (see Mulsanne's corner website for full details).
It could do it because it had very little down force resulting in lower L/D ratio. Power was "only" 630 HP compared with 800 for a Sauber C9 which reached 400 kph in qualifying in 1989. The Sauber had full ground effects and a higher L/D.
Camerameister 2 years ago
@Camerameister Ya i am sure you know more than racers such as Bell? stfu. Porsche was scrutinized because they dominated Lemans, it wasnt just the Racers that showed how fast the 917 and 956s were. it was every expert and enthusiasts that were present then. so schnauze du fotze!!!!!!!!!!
TravHof1 2 years ago
So I have to believe you or not be one of the cool kids?
I like Derek Bell. Always have but I don't have to do chin ups on everything he says.
Highest speed trap figures ever recorded for a 917 at Le Mans at the race were 224.4mph. That's the OFFICIAL figure from the Autotechnica Le Mans Annual. I've been watching this figure grow for 35 years and it's turning into a bidding war with everyone trying to out do each other.
Porsche's own computer predicted 239.
Prove me wrong or shut up.
Camerameister 2 years ago
@gjledo Because those cars didn't have as much downforce and the mulsanne straight has chicanes now. If you were to give a Toyota GT-One that much road and lowered the downforce and set the transmission right it could probably hit 246 with ease. But then it wouldn't be as fast in other sections.
Christoffski 1 year ago
ok but you can't compare a racing car with a road car because they are very different.
with the money for a veyron I would get a 911 cup for a quarter of price !
carl206rc 2 years ago
I could not have said it any better.
I hope to see the day Porsche comes out with a road-legal, flat 12 powered road car.
spartus09 2 years ago
They should make the next Carrera GT with a flat 12.... that will seriously jack Ferrari up.. and leave others in the dust.
SPECTER066 2 years ago
Definately. The V10 is a work of art, but a flat-12 would really fully embrace Porsche's racing heritage.
spartus09 2 years ago
@SPECTER066 Yeah they could but it would be much less reliable and would have to be maintained very often.
orochimaruisugly 2 years ago
"...we're only doing about 160 miles per hour now."
"Only"????
tricesimo 2 years ago
Haha is that the Meters playing the music in the beggining?
srbeardsworth 2 years ago
now we have the audi r10 tdi v12 racer. monster. best of luck audi r15 tdi
12valvepower1 2 years ago
greatest race car ever
jurgenmanfred 2 years ago 34
AMEN !
MY599FERRARI 2 years ago 2
where can I get this on dvd, so I can hear outta both ears, when this vid was first uploaded I used to watch it, the sound came outta both left and right, now only right, why ?
freedomsoldier187 2 years ago
I also don´t where u can get it. To serve the other problem, I would say, go and see your doctor to get your ears checked, or maybe fix your PCs sound system.
The1RealDeal 2 years ago
just went to the monteray historics, this year porsche was the highlight brand was porsche, 6 917k's.. the red n white 23, one yellow, n 3 gulf 917, including 917-022, the #20 movie car! met Vic, Brian and Stirling! EVERYBODY has to go when porsche is the highlight again!
vivaSchumi7 2 years ago
Y love 917 gulf
Y love Ferdinand Piech
Y love Bugatti 1000hp
Thanks ferdinand piech
IIIIY0UTUBEIIIIIIIII 2 years ago 2
oo shit i can hear too it sounds like a woman speaking nor tv !!!
taclow123 2 years ago
The 917 Porsche....... if everyone despites that humankinde reaced the limit of natural evolution, you should present him a 917.....
Sokra01 2 years ago
No Turbo, no Ground-effect, just a car and a driver.
Racing at its best.
Sokra01 2 years ago 25
What's the name of this documentary? I missed to tape the first five minutes of it on TV but I cannot find any information about this doc....
sssrpk 2 years ago
Its realeased as "Die Porsche Dokumentation" in Germany. Perhaps you can find it on VHS or DVDvia Amazon. Good Luck. It´s a reall good doc. Dereck drives nearly every fmous Porsche Sportscar.
Sokra01 2 years ago
Thank You!
sssrpk 2 years ago
lol "the greatest Porsche of everytime."
nthnkilgore 2 years ago
how much is this car worth?
stevenkiller1993 2 years ago
I Love this car & i love the Ford GT 40. They both pushed the Boundries & Beyond. And yes i have visited the Ferrari Factory in Maranello. Pieces of art all of them.
demonsbutterfly 2 years ago
When men were men...!!! What a piece of history and machinery!
britishcitizen1 2 years ago
Anyone knows who's the man talking?
Thanks
What a machine.....
LarsHavelte 2 years ago
Derek Bell, he raced one at le-mans and if your into theses cars then the film to watch is le-mans starring steve mcqueen. dereck bell did a lot of the driving in the film and a lot of the footage was taken from the 1970 race. If you want to see one up close the place to go is the Goodwood Festival of Speed . To say these cars overshadow anything else would be an understatement!
tempest4plus 2 years ago
Thanks! I love that era op sportscar racing.
LarsHavelte 2 years ago
Major "understatement" as you say. I didn't know Bell drove in "Le Mans" the movie. I get the chills even watching this. Imagine driving one of these at speed down the Mulsanne straight at 230MPH. All I can say is that who did or could, had balls of steel. Granted todays F1 drivers are amazing...but really, do they compare...do they really??!!
britishcitizen1 2 years ago
Derek was assigned as Siegfried Rauch''s (Erich Stahler) driving double so he drove the Ferrari 512 in the movie. His car caught fire towards the end of the shoot and Derek suffered some nasty burns.
Rhubba 2 years ago
the Veyron is 40 years newer and still cant hang witha a car that old booya
asay964 2 years ago
they arent even comparable, one is a race car and one is a road car, why would the veyron want to compete?
unscdoom 2 years ago
What video is this clip from?
rlkirkland 2 years ago
The Porsche would beat a Veyron for miles!
This car is awsome.
Infil888 2 years ago
There is a fucking woman voice in the back. Is she saying subliminar messages to me? OMG!! oo'
kingkiqk 2 years ago
I have "Puma 917" shoes! Woohoo!
titsxyxyxyxtits 2 years ago
Magic.... er, did someone mention Veyron and Farrari's - what for exactly?
Berkcam 2 years ago
A Veyron beating a car purpose built like the 917? Maybe in a straight line but I highly doubt it around a circuit. And then introduce the 917/30 and the Veyron falls even further behind. Would be whipped and whipped badly.
Cliner97 2 years ago 2
taitaisanchez read the comments just posted you IDIOT
lsrstc 2 years ago
SHITE
seb4puntogt 2 years ago
this car is the boss. deal with it you pricks,
2skunkstripes 2 years ago 5
Still sounds perfectly Porsche.
stubag69 2 years ago 2
In its day this was the best sports car on the planet and trying to devalue it or play that down based on todays technology is childish and slightly ridiculous. See one, hear one and read about the car and you'll appreciate why it has such a powerful image and presence within Petrolhead circles and because some VW is potentially quicker down a straight road means NOTHING, it is an utter irrelevance in fact!
houseyuk 2 years ago 2
Why does YouTube ALWAYS get people, usually people who garner their knowledge from other idiots or worse Wikipedia, comparing stuff with other stuff on these sorts of videos? The same lines, the same arguments all with nothing of relevance to the video only to try and emphasise why the poster on their bedroom wall is the best and why it would own another car to use the most appropriate youth speak. Comparing a car from 1970/71 with a car from 21st century is ludicrous and childish.
houseyuk 2 years ago 2
Awesome! One of the REAL legends of motor racing.
Thx for sharing!!
EmersonMeyer33 2 years ago
oh God! Too many bullshit for such a legendary car... Go and comment a 1/4 mile race between two japanese cars... I have not against jap cars, but I think that´s more appropriate for that kind of... whatever...
lanfras 2 years ago
totally agree...
Oliadelik 2 years ago