1976 Olympics 10000m

[brockportrunner]

IMO lopes is the real olympic champ, considering he was the first clean runner to cross the finish line

[PaulVinonaama]

Where did you get the idea that Viren was dirty? We Finns are the cleanest people since we use the sauna so much. If you mean dirtiness figuratively, there is nothing whatsoever to implicate Viren any more than, say, Lopes. By the way, Lopes IS a real olympic champ since he won the marathon in 1984. He was a great runner and, as far as I know, he never made any unsportmanlike accusations against other competitors.

[MrJuha82]

He won everything from Olympic Games!!

Paavo Nurmi is the biggest Finnish legend still of all Finnish long trip runners, no question about it.

[MrPhilosophicalpanda]

Everytime I watch this video I look around just a second for Pre. I almost tear up when I remember... Pre was a 5k runner not a 10k....

[raulevich]

VIREN IS THE BEST, but el gran carlos lopes termino 2th, silver medal y en la marathon 1984 los angeles batio el record mundial..............grande CARLOS LOPES gold medal marathon 84

[86Element]

@raulevich Viren the guy of doping.. won that with a 27.30 and he just attack at the last lap.. always hidden in lopes.. the very best indeed

[VirenKickedPresAss]

VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN! VirEN!

[Luzitanpride]

up your ass nazis, put your nokia money up your ass., fuck you all. greatings from PORTUGAL.,first comunists , now facists, true finish , trus homsexuals, should i say.

[4807avh]

Zatokep ran and won the 5000, the 10.000 and the marathon in Helsinki 1952.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@4807avh Viren may have had a better chance at emulating that (or getting close) if he had more than 18 hours rest. A race like this must take its toll on the man's legs. The people he raced with peaked mentally and physically for the Olympic Marathon; Viren only did it as an afterthought to winning the 5 and 10 thousand meters. 5th place is still a stellar achievement.

[wholetthedoggo]

unfortunately blood doping was legal at the time

[YiftertheShifter1]

@wholetthedoggo Fortunately it had little influence on this race.

[wholetthedoggo]

@YiftertheShifter1 the key word is "little".. that was enough for him to win this race

[YiftertheShifter1]

@wholetthedoggo Oh, but you're operating on the assumption that Viren doped, and I will tell you and all the nutjobs who think like you that there is no shred of evidence to back this outrageous conclusion. So, when I say that blood doping had little to contribute to this race, I mean that absent any suspects who were never caught, questioned, tested, or otherwise, the gold, silver, and bronze medallists went to the fastest, strongest and smartest racers on the day: Viren, Lopes, and Foster.

[xxxDAPROBLEMxxx]

lasse=god god=lasse he just decided to flex his muscles on that last lap. made it look easy. the double double was arguably the greatest acheivement in middle distance running ever. you heard it here.

[stevetheowl12]

@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx Better than Zatopek's 5K, 10K, and Marathon triple in 1952? Better than Nurmi's golds in the 1500, 5000, 3000 team race, and individual and team CC race in 1924 (the first two being within an hour of each other)?

The double double was a great achievement, but I think that it pales in comparison to these two. Not only that, but Nurmi and Zatopek always dominated, while Viren was pedestrian except for the three months before the Olympics.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@stevetheowl12 I stand by what has been said. Viren's double double is an achievement that nearly every great distance runner has failed at. Nurmi never completed one 5000-10000m double (he lost the 5000m in both his attempts). Zatopek lost the 5000m in his first attempt, and as did Bekele. Gebreselassie never even tried.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@stevetheowl12 Zatopek's triple is the greatest single Olympic feat for a distance runner, but it's a feat that will likely never be repeated again. For one thing, the schedule of the Olympic games these days makes it impossible: the marathon, which must be run last due to how much it takes out of you, is usually run before or the day of the 5000m. For Zatopek it was three days after his 5000m final. For Viren, it was only eighteen hours...

[stevetheowl12]

@YiftertheShifter1 If you point out the short turnaround between events, I think that you can't ignore Nurmi in the 1500 and 5000 in 1924. He had less than one hour between the final of the 5000 and the start of the 1500. The great Kip Keino tried to do the same in 1972, and was so drained from the 5000 that he didn't even start the 1500.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@stevetheowl12 Don't compare these track distances, 1500/ 5000, with the marathon. Athletes do these distances so often during the year, whereas career marathoners do marathons only twice a year. They take so much out of you. People taper heavily in the last week and have lots of rest. Viren had run a very tough race the day before and only decided to do the marathon as an afterthought.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@stevetheowl12 I don't know what you're talking about with regards to Kip Keino. He won a silver medal in the 1500m, which means that he had to have started the 1500m. Now as far as CC goes, I agree that it caused athletes such exhaustion: in 1924, there was a heat wave in Paris that knocked out over half the competitors. I doubt whoever won the race could've decided the event's future, but the point is that future athletes are not given as many events/ chances to medal as Nurmi did.

[stevetheowl12]

@YiftertheShifter1 @YiftertheShifter1 I read somewhere that Keino tried to do both, and was so exhausted after winning a silver in the first that he decided not to run the second. I thought it was the 5000, but I had it backwards.

You are right that athletes don't have as many chances to win as Nurmi, but I think that it is fair to point out that we now run in an era where running two events is considered to be the exception rather than the rule. I don't see anyone trying five events today.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@stevetheowl12 If someone wanted to try five events, they'd have to do, say, the 1500m, steeplechase, 5000, 10000, and marathon (or 800m). There are huge differences in these events; the schedule makes it impossible for full recovery, plus you have to factor in heats and semifinals. It is impossible today, given all that plus the specializing and the competition in each.

[stevetheowl12]

@YiftertheShifter1 It is true that there is a big difference between these events, but even if you change it to three, you still don't see anything like that anymore. Said Aouita planned to do so in 1988, but he only ran in the 800 after a hamstring injury. To me, the fact that no one can even come close to what Zatopek did in 1952 and Nurmi in 1924 make those the performances that will live for the ages. Several have done a single-double, but the mere idea of a triple or a five is no more.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@stevetheowl12 Continued. Add that to the growing professionalism in sport, and you have people who specialize in just the marathon, or just the 5000m. As far as Nurmi's feats are concerned, most of his gold medals were in events that are defunct: 3000m team race, XC/ XC team. Plus the fact that the Olympic games those days were limited to just Europe and the Americas- the playing field was much, much smaller.

[stevetheowl12]

@YiftertheShifter1 Continued: Re: defunct events; do you know why the CC race is no longer held? Because so many runners were so exhausted from it. Nurmi dominated so much he ended the race forever. People tried to keep up with Nurmi and the heat, but no one could do it. I say that the double-double was great, but I think that it ranks behind these two performances that were just a little bit greater.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@stevetheowl12 However, I do agree that overall, Nurmi and Zatopek had achieved much more in their careers that Viren in terms of races won, records set, barriers shattered etc.., but Viren specialized in the Olympic Games just as Lance Armstrong specialized in the Tour de France, and the result is that both achieved what the all-time greats never achieved in the highest stage. Nurmi and Zatopek are higher up in the pantheon of distance runners, but Viren is the best Olympic runner ever.

[Maniefresh44]

Hey YiftertheShifter1,

I think last year berlins 10000m and 5000m final reminded about the 1976 10000m and 5000m final for some reason. In both 5000m races the runners tried to get past victor but couldn't. Strange indeed don't ya think?

[YiftertheShifter1]

I feel the exact same way. I can't really prove this, but has Bekele gotten his tactics from Viren's races? This race was only a day after Viren turned 27, the same age as Bekele is right now/ last year at the world championships. Both men are different in many ways, but frighteningly similar in others.

[totowablood58]

@YiftertheShifter1

You think Viren was the best of them all? Maybe not, how about Emil Zatopek? He won 38 consecutive 10,000meter races in a row. He held over 30 records, he won the 5, 10k and marathon in 1952 in Helsinki come on Fartfaces.....................­he ran 28:54 in 1954 come on man...........this guy was the best ever I think but I also love Paavo Nurmi, Viren and Vasala too. Let's face it: Zatopek was the king of the track baby.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@totowablood58 I'm saying that Viren was the best in the Olympic games- Zatopek is better overall. Viren was at a disadvantage in that his marathon was a mere 18 hours after his brilliant 5000 meter victory (Zatopek had 3 days rest before his marathon). Viren is the only one to hold the olympic and world records over 5 and 10000 meters and the 2 mile WR at the same time in 1972. Another advantage was that Zatopek didn't have to run a 10000m heat- Viren had to do this both in '72 and '76.

[YiftertheShifter1]

@totowablood58 Last note: Viren ran a combined 72,000 meters in olympic competition in 1976, more than anyone has ever done before or since.

[YiftertheShifter1]

Last year's 10000m world championship looks like a rerun of this race.

[Zndwls]

Well, Virén's alleged use of blood doping is probably an issue whose final truth we won't know during this life. I personally respect him, and would like to give him the benefit of the doubt in this matter. If I simply repeat those allegations and point out that he ran clearly faster in the Olympic years than between them, that's not automatically an accusation. It's just a statement. If he used blood doping, so did several other runners at the time, until 1985 it was legal.

[gallenkallela]

Well now we have Jukka Keskisalo! He has been make good times in meny diffrend races.. 2000m he run a new Finnish record 5.00.32 in Lapinlahti, whits is world season record of 2009. 3000m in time 7.49.05 in Joensuu. Allso Keskisalo run 1500m in finnish national champ. time 3.39.65 in last saturday. Allso he better his own records in 5000m in time 13.39 in Lappeenranta.

[RetkiActive]

I'm from Finland and I'm very proud to say that Lasse Virén and Paavo Nurmi were two greatest athletes in the history of the olympics! In those times there was no Kenyan or Ethiopian runners to screw the whole thing up like these days...

[YiftertheShifter1]

Yifter was there during the Munich 10K, as well as a Kenyan, but whatever dominance of Africans over 10000m they have today did not begin until after Viren's retirement.

[kingwilson06ad]

I think it officially began in the 1988 Olympics in Seoul... Kenya picked up golds in 800m, 1500m, 5000m, 3000m steeplechase

[YiftertheShifter1]

If so, then its unofficial beginning was Yifter's 5/10K double in Moscow.

[kingwilson06ad]

Yifter's feat in 1980 was the feat of one very particulat athlete, but the *actual* dominance was not seen - for sure - until 1988 (a Moroccan won the 10,000 in '88, BTW). In 1984 there were Europeans like Lopes, Coe, Ovett, Cova, etc and the only gold Africa picked up at those Games was in the 5000m (Aouita). Kenya did not start winning its non-stop sweep in the 3000m steeplechase till 1988.

[YiftertheShifter1]

No, Julius Korir also took gold in the steeplechase in '84.

And when you consider also Nyambui and Kedir, three of the first four in the 10000m and the gold/silver medalist in the 5000m all being African, then you get an unofficial beginning.

[kingwilson06ad]

I agree... it was a prelude of things to come

[zombie266]

@RetkiActive - whiner! Complain, whine, whatever rather than working your butt off. F&^*ing wanker!

[Zndwls]

Some final observations about this race:

Puttemans, the 1972 silver medalist, dropped out at 6,800 metres. Simmons beat Viren by 13 seconds in the heats and lost to him by 16 seconds in the final.  Fitzsimons of Australia, the only runner to be lapped, collapsed in the heats. Haro ran quite well for a 36-year-old who never

had a strong final kick. Smet fell before 5,000 metres and injured his wrist.

Ford ran both halves of the race almost

at the same pace. Simmons' final kick

came too late.

[Zndwls]

Yes, there is evidence that Viren used blood doping. During this past school year, I talked about this matter a bit with a long-time Physical Education teacher. For example, Viren ran much slower times from 1973 to 1975 and from 1977 to 1979 than he did in 1972, 1976 and 1980, especially at 10,000 metres. That being said, I think that Viren was a rather good runner - much better than other Finnish runners during most of the last 20 to 25 years. Foster lost to Viren always in the Olympics.

[YiftertheShifter1]

That is NOT evidence of blood doping AT ALL. On what basis does "good times" in some years, "bad times" in others have ANYTHING to do with blood doping AT ALL?!!! Please, before you open your mouth, learn about what you say before uttering the most unfounded statements using BS evidence.

[YiftertheShifter1]

Viren's training was designed to peak at the Olympic games; for example, between October '71 and Munich, Viren ran 4500 quality miles, many at Kenyan altitudes (as opposed to 2800 to 3100 in other years). Viren had several injuries between '73 and '75, some to the point that he could barely stand up, which earned him only a bronze in Euros of '74, but nothing, other than Viren's brilliance as a runner at the Olympic Games, suggests he was a blood doper.

[62liimis]

Why do you accuse Viren ? Only the olympics meant something for him. Moreover he was injured between Munich and Montreal. His times between the two olympic games were not that bad. He once told, that records are beaten, victories remain in history. That's the kind of athlete he was.

[cegtown]

Viren trained his ass off under the Lydiard system, and he was the most gifted of runners. Look at the efficiency of his running gait. He ran in and trained for the biggest events only. And only to win. How fast could he have run? He would have held his own even today.

[kingwilson06ad]

and don't forget "band mathematics"... also part of the Lydiard system: stay milimetrically close to each curve bend... they figured Lasse saved 40-45 meters on each 10K race doing that... very smart execution

[cegtown]

yeah, i forget how far out they measure from the curve. six? eight inches?

[kingwilson06ad]

yes... multiply that number by 50 (for 10K) or 25 (for 5K) and you got yourself some decent real estate

[LPCLASSICAL]

I remember watching this race in a chinese takeaway when i was 10 years old in 1976. I was naive enough to think that Brendan Foster had a chance of winning - but then I knew nothing of Viren.

[yaknbo]

Also, doesn't Finland have a tradition of almost preternatural excellence in long distance and endurance sports? LD running and X Country skiing?

[yaknbo]

One thing I do know is that Billy Mills was NOT a blood doper.

[yaknbo]

My brother in law, a Scot, thinks Viren was a blood doper and a cunt. I think the guy was one of the greatest athletes who has ever lived. I don't know what to think anymore.

[YiftertheShifter1]

The allegations are simply fraudulent and have absolutely no factual or credible proof or basis. Viren was harassed constantly by people making these allegations, even bribed up to $1 million to "confess," but he gave them the truth, which SOME PEOPLE still refused to acknowledge.

[62liimis]

Where do you have the proof, that Lopes was clean ? Because he lost ? Before Rome, Viren was injured almost all summer and couldn't train properly. Even Brendan admitted, that he won because of that. You don't seem to know a shit about training, competing etc. and still you make these comments. Please, be man enough to come to Finland and call Viren a cunt.

[bootymanager]

Who knows? Who knows about anyone anymore? I thought Baumann was clean, but he got done for the toothpaste scandal. Any number of great athletes who I once held in high esteem have disappointed me time and again. Nothing surprises me anymore. I'm over it.

[bootymanager]

Lopes was robbed of the gold here by that blood-doping cheating Finnish cunt, Viren. Him, Vainio, Manninka and all those arseholes. Also, we all know about Cova. he should have his medals taken off him as well. Foster destroyed Viren in Rome '74, but couldn't go with the cheat here. Lopes was awesome. Some cojones on the shortarse bastard, that's for sure. A 2.07 marathon and world cross country win at 38 for fuck's sake!

[specialist34535]

Do you (or anyone else) have any real proof that Viren used blood doping? No, you don't.

There were many other very good runners in the 70's who ran faster times than Viren. What do you think about them? Were there perhaps cheaters among them? Who knows?

Viren didn't care about fast times. He was only interested in the Olympics and he was also a brilliant tactician (a good example of this was the 5000 metres final in the 1976 Olympics).

[xxxDAPROBLEMxxx]

@specialist34535 I agree with you but actually no one ran faster times in the 70's than viren...

[YiftertheShifter1]

@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx Actually there were several people who ran faster times than Viren. In the 5000, I believe Viren was the 17th or so fastest in history over 5000m(13:16.4) when coming to Montreal... but when it came to delivery on the big stage, Viren was the best.

[Offspring1337]

That was DOPE!

[FinnMove]

Katseltiin tätä yöllä joskus kesällä 1976.

Tämä voitto oli mielestäni odotettavissa.

Ei Lassella ollut varteenotettavia vastustajia.

[DeBosch1]

Lopes did the entire job from the beginning till the end. Can you imagine what it takes to pull everyone km after km, dropping everyone one by one? Viren knew he had a better finish and just profited from Lopes work (in cycling jargon, on Lopes wheel). You can say he was tactically perfect, but you can't say it was nice. But that was the big problem of Lopes: he had a bad finish. That's why he had to choose to run the marathon, which is hardly decided in the final sprint. And he won gold in LA!

[kingwilson06ad]

Sprinting the last 600 meters when you have nothing but lactic acid in your bloodstream is also "hard work" and Viren did that, Lopes did not. There are 2 styles of running: frontrunners (Lopes) and kickers (Viren). Style is no excuse for winning or losing.

[retrovogue]

PORTUGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[traf1852]

Carlos went on to win the Marathon in 1984 in LA, right ? Now that was a REAL victory !!!

Carlos Lopes really is the best runner ever!

100m, 3,000m, 10,000 m but it is the MARATHON tht everyone fears and respects. It requires TRUE GRIT AND TRUE STAMINA !!

[xxxDAPROBLEMxxx]

@traf1852 what about western states 100 mile challenge. or other ultras. haha

[Perfectrequire]

Carlos Lopes the best runner ever

[tnaiman1]

holy fuck what a stalian

[xedvux]

The Flying Finn!

[kingwilson06ad]

Thanks for posting this. I remember seeing this final in black & white TV when I was 10 years old. Brings back memories!