How did Satan make evil commit suicide at the cross?

[FaithLovesJesus1]

Praise God! Thank you Jesus! Death is only the beginning for us believers! Hallelujah!

[daniel11972]

This is to me the truest thing I believe in my heart. for that reason I will not commit suicide because then Satan wins every time

[UrukEngineer]

What kinda frakked up god demands the death of his creations?

[Sebcalebpinto]

..Gods amazing, thats all i have to say, and everyone will see that..one day-Amen

[andrewmarcus91]

@eitherform66 agreed,

[andrewmarcus91]

@eitherform66 thanks for the complimate, ill say it this way, we needed to see a contrast?

[etherform66]

@andrewmarcus91 exactly.. for our benifit, not His! He needs nothing!

[andrewmarcus91]

@etherform66 you say God needed an adversary? God needs nothing!

[etherform66]

@andrewmarcus91 Nice! yes, He needs nothing, true, however, since you are so picky with your words, lets say, "He desires that we, as fallible humans, percieve His mighty power - *by contrasting His defeat of that which is utterly wicked with that which is incalculably holy.* After all, His ways and thoughts are higher than ours own" Is 55-8-9

It is a good thing that you dont accept things whole sale Andrew.. if there were more people like you the world, it would be a better place.

[etherform66]

wrong again piper .. Elohim and not Satan is the one pulling the strings.. you think satan made the decision - it was Elohim who decided this before the foundation of the world. You give credit to the devil for something Elohim planned in advance. Your doctrine of hell is a doctrine of demons - like many doctrines you peddle.. no wonder the world is confused about the Lord and his mission - you are full of pagan lies.

[andrewmarcus91]

@etherform66 I believe all Christians understand God the father was in total control, and still is, but I think we are looking at different levals of the same story, kinda like peeling back an onion, the non-believers saw people in charge, the next leval was satan did it, and to some extent he did, much like a well planned out football play or chess move, God knew what satan was going to do, let it happen, and then checkmate !!!!

[etherform66]

@andrewmarcus91 Elohim is omniscient... He knows everything, is in control of everything and is the creator of everything. It is an very difficult pill for many to swallow - to accept that God would create evil, but it is true. Elohim is not evil, however He is the creator of evil. He needed an adversary in order to demonstrate His power. He will reconsile all things to Himself in due time and creation will be astounded - make no mistake - He is outwitted by NONE ! :) Praise Elohim!

[Son7of7God7]

I dont think I agree with this namely because of 1 corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,

which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

[Ps3vinni]

beautifly articulated!

[Elberttreble]

sin is irrational

[chessmoney18]

@paulheary: they died and went to hell.

[ElectraOnAzaleaPath]

By the above post I mean that the antichrist is Satan's answer to Jesus. If he can command the lvoe of the masses through this figure he will become a god being worshipped freely. He has waited for some time to fulfil this the age now being ripe for rapid transmission of an idea through society. Many of us will worship Satan believing it only natural - lt will take divine knowledge to pierce the facade. Our conditioned natures will demand that we pledge fealty to the anti christ.

[ElectraOnAzaleaPath]

Suicide is not an act of revenge in "most" cases. It is slack jawed logic to besmirch the memory of millions of individuals who through much suffering felt they had no choice but to bring about their own death An insightful post if not slightly deficient towards the end. If Satan wished to prevent the the death on the cross he had only to prevent the execution happening by manipulating the Jews +Romans. I would instead say that answer lies in the anti christ who is the alternative to Jesus

[EddieBee83]

John Piper is nice fear mongerer, how sweet!

[prinsalmighty1]

this man is wrong.

any one who follow him,follows the devils teaching.

this man doesn't know the devil and if,if he know him,he would not speak like this.

the devil is not death ,he is still alive and someday you will witness his coming into the world.

de devil will not be putt in a pit of fire.

this man is what they call, a false prophet in the holy books.

this man has no anwsers for you,only lies.becaus he thinks..........

[gangrenouslimb]

'I think I'm going to torture and kill my own son to save everyone from the sins I created them with.' - God

[ILOVEMALAWTICSURREAL]

@gangrenouslimb DID GOD KILL HIS SON? OR DID THE POLITIANS @ THE TIME RIOT  4 HIM TO BE PUBLICLY SHAMED?

[BlueEye222]

Christians are morally bankrupt - they claim to be incapeable of discerning right from wrong if it werent for an imagined supernatural entity spoon feeding them thier morailty. You can prove this easily by making tehm read wicked passages from thier own holy book, they may squirm slightly but generally if God did it, or told someone to do a wicked act its fine. So when they claim they wouldnt know right from wrong if it werent for 'God' - I beleive them! - These people are dangerous.

[reno911is]

@BlueEye222 Troll

[gangrenouslimb]

@BlueEye222 Right on! 2 Kings 2:23-25 is my personal favorite. 

[munku121]

What wicked passages are you talking about? Are you talking about the execution of the Canaanites by Joshua? Because that what is was, an execution, not murder. Those people were sexually immoral, and sacrificed their children to an idol called molech. Yes, it is a sin to be sexually immoral, no matter what you say. God is the divine Judge, He is holy, holy, holy. You will see Him when it is your turn to be judged, so please, accept Christ before it is too late.

[BlueEye222]

I think all christians should read the bible - you would see a massive decline in Christianity - this will of course never happen, as lazy people do not read long books generally

[BlueEye222]

I'm guessing 90% of Christians have never read thier own holy book, which proves they dont really care at all what God has to say (or in my case, what man has thier imaginary frined / enemy saying) They worship an image of what they are TOLD the bible is saying. They are lazy and want all the answers spoon-fed to them. Idiots! - I gave up my faith after reading the bible - what a wicked man-made book

[TheHighVic]

@BlueEye222 but u didn't read the whole book ;)

[BlueEye222]

You speak of SIN like its some kind of personality in itself - some kind of inheritable infection, that you could get from your parents. read genisis, you cant find this idea in there at all. When Adam and eve ate of the fruit, they became like Gods - the serpent did not lie or mislead as is claimed by Christendom. The genesis story is an adapted african creation myth - a crude a ttempt to blame woman for the suffering in the world

[BlueEye222]

Anyone who acts to prevent a wicked human sacrifice is a hero, not evil. Just who is evil here? One whose answer to mankinds imagined problem is to kill his own son, or one who tries to prevent this wickedness from taking place? What else did this wicked one do by the way? let's see... challenged Jesus to make a loaf of bread in the wilderness? ooooh that is evil! - Showed Jesus some real estate he didnt own? Caused david to take a census? Pure evil!

[LLiimmzz]

wooow i like john pipers acting towards the end

[KilshawInt]

you are illogical.

[amadeus21able]

joyofsatan . c o m

[bballcardcollector09]

who created this rule that one must die for another to atone for sins? why is jesus suppose to be the "lamb of god"???

[letseatbreakfast]

@bballcardcollector09 well God did. he is perfectly just and holy and must punish sin. so he did and he did it so that we could still be saved, isnt that glorious

[dooVoob]

@bballcardcollector09 Let's imagine a big stone wall was falling from the sky on my head, I look up and see it coming. I know that as soon as it hits me, it will crush me completely. If a bigger taller man strong enough to come and wait for it until it falls down, and save me from it, this man will have to carry the weight of it and struggle to get rid of it. I on the other hand will be saved from death.

This life is all about helping each other and the biggest helper was LORD Jesus Christ.

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Wow, I really don't get all this talk about Satan killing Christ. Isn't it the Father, who killed His Son by pouring His own wrath on him; the Son being treated like a criminal and therefore being cursed according to the law, which means hell, the flames of God's wrath. Christ suffered these flames until God said it was enough; the justice was satisfied!

This is my current understanding of the sufferings of Christ on the cross. If any of you thinks I'm wrong at something, please, let me know!

[crem004]

Yes, God's satisfaction of His justice was accomplished at the cross but Jesus has to be delivered up by the hands of men. The sacrifice of Christ had to be a bloody sacrifice. While the Father's wrath was indeed poured out on to His Son, but we are also "healed by His stripes." Jesus had to be slaughtered in the same way animal sacrifice took place in the OT.

This is just the way God has ordained it. :)

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Amen.

"healed by His STRIPES."

- That's in 1 Pet. 2:24. Thank you for reminding me of it!

God bless you.

[crem004]

No problem. :)

That passage is originally in Isaiah 5:3

[thruthem]

Torture and suicide is not moral and no way to raise a child! Filthy religion!

[bballcardcollector09]

huh, what is this comment about? that's like saying, the colonialists fighting for freedom against britain is not moral, filthy freedom!...

[thruthem]

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. -Denis Diderot.

[necridos]

"If I die for your sins, you'll SERVE ME in death" That sounds pretty selfish to me.

[AgainstAllOthers]

Jesus committed suicide.

[sicstyl]

What a profound insight..

[thruthem]

(pure insanity)

[dmony1234]

WOW!!!! that is an amazing way of thinking of the Cross. Praise God

[EntinludeX]

To my mind the height of gullibility is accepting on faith that a debt has been paid in my name, before my birth, without my consent, and in a ridiculous supernatural manor. As if this were not insane enough this is then further compound by proposing that the only way to repay this absurd predetermined debt is through my loyal patronage and feilty, and that refusal to do so would result in dire eternal consequences. This reeks of EXTORTION by definition.

[FillTheirVoid]

Haven't you read? 1 Corinthians 1:18-19 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

[EntinludeX]

Hello FTV. Long time.

YOU more than anyone should know better than to parrot verses at me.

In fact, as a former minister, I HAVE read. However, the fact remains that while you believe without evidence or reasoned logic certainly seems foolish to me, it does not destroy my wisdom, nor brings my understanding to nothing.

Have you not read the dictionary?

Extortion [ik-stawr-shuhn]

Noun -Law. the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority

[FillTheirVoid]

Yet you still do not understand? and before my eyes you fulfill that which is written in the scriptures.

[EntinludeX]

Oh FTV, you act as if simply parroting verses explained anything. How sad.

You pretend words like "EXTORTION" have meanings other than what they do, or none at all. Because you choose to ignore it's meaning and implications.

You pretend that a logical CATCH-22 is somehow prophecy. I don't believe your book, your book says I won't believe it, so tadaaa your book must be true? How ironic. Not that you understand irony.

You mistake EXTORTION for salvation.

You mistake a CATCH-22 for prophecy.

[EntinludeX]

Extortion in this case is proposing that the only way to repay this assumed, absurd, and supposedly predetermined debt is through exchanging my valuable freedom and turning it into loyal patronage and feilty to the assumed controller of this blatant predatory loan practice, and that refusal to do so would result in dire eternal consequences.

To my mind you foolishly mistake extortion for "salvation" by willfully submitting to this claimed supernatural mafia-style practice of "protection".

[lucasdasilvamaria]

"Satan is iracional". When Jesus said: "Behind me Satan! You think about men's stuff, not God's!" HE WAS SAYING: Satan thinks like men. Iracional, sinfull, self-destructive, desperate.

[paulheary]

What happened the people who died before Jesus died? I'm seriously, theologically, looking for someone to tell me the answer. Thanks.

[SVEMARINOV]

It's hard to understand, but Jesus lives forever: Rev 22:13 " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Therefore, there is no difference for the people, who died before or after Jesus died. The life and death of Jesus was for an example to us - how we must live : John 15:12,13 : This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

[EntinludeX]

It's only hard to understand because it stops making sense the instant you think about it. You didn't even adress the question posed to you.

You're saying that the people who died in all areas of the globe outside of the Roman Empire, Bethlehem, Judea, Nazareth, and Galile, and predating Jesus supposed walk on earth from 7BCE to 36CE are somehow to be held accountable for what they could not have possibly known?

Really what you're saying is that you have no concept of time or geography.

[FillTheirVoid]

I thought you said that you were a minister, and yet you do not know these things? Have you not read Romans?

[EntinludeX]

An appeal to riducule, FTV? Do not presume to patronise me, I've read the entire NIV and JKV several times.

I know these things in the same manor in which I know Superman is from Krypton.

You mistake knowledge for beleif, FTV. Unlike you, I do not beleive everything I read. I require physical evidence and reasoned logic to gain any modecrum of certainty.

[EntinludeX]

Mothers have died for their children since before antiquity. One has died for the betterment of many, times and time again in our past. Self-sacrifice and altruism are not concepts spawned from Christianity.

Surely you don't think that the concept of selflessly laying down ones life for another person hadn't occured to ANYONE before Jesus....do you?

[FillTheirVoid]

It is true that people have laid down their lives for many things

However the difference in the sacrifice of Christ is who He is, that God, who is infinite in glory and holiness would humble Himself and become a man to die for us. He died for the ungodly He died for His enemies and for sinners who deserve His punishment

This is not merely the death of a normal man that we are speaking about. Also the manner of His death was not normal either He bore our sins and endured the wrath of God for us

[EntinludeX]

Yes, FTV...I'm FULLY AWARE of the claims of the Gospel. You know full well by now that without physical evidence or reasoned logic all they are are CLAIMS.

Without physical evidence or reasoned logic you won't be convincing me of this is balderdash.

[FillTheirVoid]

Their sins were atoned for by Jesus Christ, it is written in the scriptures that in the mind of God, Christ had been slain from the foundation of the world. For them His sacrifice was future, for us it is past.

In Romans we read that Abraham believed God, and His faith was counted as righteousness.

They were justified by faith in God their savior.

[EntinludeX]

FTV, we've done this dance so many times already.

Faith by deffinition means to accept a thing at face value without EVIDENCE. This is the height of GULLIBILITY as without physical evidence or reasoned logic there is no means by which to valiate claims made.

Proclaiming that refusal to accept these claims on face value would result in dire eternal consequences compounds this error and reeks of EXTORTION by definition.

Do you not know what words mean? Have you not read a dictionary?

[FillTheirVoid]

Once again, you should know better than this if you have actually read the Bible.

The scriptures declare that all men are guilty already. They are already on their way to damnation.

[EntinludeX]

I've told you I've read serveral versions of the Bible from cover to cover on multiple occasions.

Unlike you, I do not believe everything I read. It takes physical evidence and reasoned logic to gain trust. Therefore that sciptures declair a thing does not make it so.

"Once again", denotes repetition. Repetition does not denote continuity or comprehention, FTV. This conversation is going nowhere as you are unable to think for yourself.

You mistake EXTORTION for salvation.

[FillTheirVoid]

You still don't seem to understand, and apparently you've forgotten everything you read.

If you're going down the highway toward a cliff and a police officer attempts to pull you over and demand that you turn around, he is not extorting you.

In the same way, we are already guilty before God and on our way to damnation. Refusal to repent and believe in Christ for salvation will result in damnation.

[EntinludeX]

No need to patronize me, FTV. I recall and understand just fine what I read, thank you very much. That I do not BELIEVE what I read is another matter entierly.

Your analogy is flawed , FTV. Primarily in that unlike how supposedly god created hell to suit his own purpose, the officer did not by any stretch of the imagination create the cliff.

A better analogy would be a Chicago mobster telling me he owns my shop and that if I do not pay him a "protection fee" he'll burn it down.

[pcrvg0808]

@paulhearyPEACE to you and all of your house . I,m reading John 5:25 and 28:29 . I,m far from being theological ,i gave my heart to Christ 11 years ago , still when i read these words i think they have to do with this question . If i,m wrong , please tell me so .

[b1foschiefs]

@paulheary I know it has been 2 years since your post, but I have an answer for you. Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was Gods forbearance. Everyone that has ever been saved was saved by the merit of Jesus Christ and the atonement he made on the cross.Every OT sacrifice was a type of the infinite sacrifice that paid for sin in all ages.

[MnSPictures]

@paulheary there is a place in the earth, by hell called the bosom of abraham/ paradise. You can see into hell from there, and vice versa. that is where jesus went for the 3 days when he died.

[WHYUHATEIT]

@MnSPictures Jesus was saved from heaven.

[WHYUHATEIT]

@paulheary Listen here is the real story. They had the last supper which is a thing the church does every mass. Then he said," drink these whine, it is my blood. Given up to you.," same thing for thing bread being his body. Then one of his friends or followers judis betrade him and got him crusified.

[tTechnocity]

@paulheary haha 2 years l8r idk if you have the answer. The answer is in romans. Abraham justified through faith. etc. etc. gives an example of someone who is saved before Christ by having faith in God.

[tlmcqu80]

@paulheary I think they had to sacrifice an animal for their sins, if they didn't I think they went to helll, however when Jesus died on the cross, I remember somewhere in the bible where he went to hell and got those people, those souls out.....

[ComputerWaProduction]

@paulheary Alot of questions like that have been asked before.

My Logical Guess, is that before christ, people who died and were not righteous in gods eyes, went to the purgatory, and were punished for the sins they comitted in their lifetime, until they were cleansed of them. And when Jesus died on the chross, I'm guessing the people in the purgatory's were given a choice. Accept Christ, and go to heaven, or Deny him and whallow in selfless pride, and be in hell forever.

[MrHotgeneration1001]

@paulheary the only reasonable answer to that is that Christ must have died before the foundation of the world and what happen in 33 AD was a demonstration of how he suffer - not possible to fully grasp with our limited minds but makes sense to me

[Pyro7502]

@paulheary people were always saved through faith...before Jesus it was faith in God and that He would provide a saviour..the O.T. saints were always looking forward for the day when God will somehow pay for their sins Himself. Hope this helps...anyway...it was always through faith not works

[etherform66]

@paulheary Has any one answered you question Paul? I may have a take on it.. What are your thoughts?

[icuucmedmt]

this is some deep stuff...never thought of it that way