Elizabeth I & Mary Stuart - The Meeting That Never Was

[Messylin]

Glenda is so fierce!

[normanthepig]

This is SO COOL! Thank you so much for creating this.

[AmethystEyes]

Did Glenda Jackson get a nose job after Elizabeth R (the mini-series)? I rather liked her strong features, they fit her.

[LisaMyLicious]

Incredible editing and structure. my highest congrats and thank you for the gift.

[MizQue]

It's amazing what people will find to fight with each other over the internet! Just plain silly!

[Bdawg9891]

Joley Richardson looks just like her mother

[ddd1953]

An excellent job of editing very clever. Are you an editor?

What program did you use? I find it hard to believe that there are any "Old school " types like me who still use a flatbed!

[MizQue]

One would think that on this subject at least, people could hold civil discourse. Sadly, that is not the case. Internet incivility goes on.

I guess "nut" is spelled with two 'tt's on the other side of the pond.

[Elisabetta611]

One more thing: I have great respect for people with strong religious convictions, esp. these days. You use yours to condemn, judge and malign. No historian worth his salt behaves in such a manner. And one last question: Do you consider every child born out of wedlock today to be a "bastard"? (Nasty word for someone as innocent as a child) If you do, then....well, it's not for me to judge. I wish you well and hope that you'll open your heart and mind to tolerance some day.

[mcmlxvi]

This nutt case is hopelessly trapped in the 16th centurty, I wonder if he is writting from a mental institution, sadly something tells me he is not.

[Elisabetta611]

He is a fanatic. Fanatics do not adhere to reason, the only voice they love to hear is their own.

[mcmlxvi]

To me he's a reality check, after 400 years we're under the illusion of living in a modern evolved world when in fact there are more loose radical nutts now than back then. Catholics, christians, born again christians, jehova witnesses, muslims, jews, protestants, lutherans, ortodoxes and who knows what else is in the oven right now. What's the point of walking forward in science and technology if as an overall society we're going backwards.

[Elisabetta611]

Actually, no. If you read the sources correctly, his marriage to Jane was approved by everyone, INCLUDING the church. (She was a conservative and the great hope of English Catholics) Luther even called her an enemy of the gospel because of this. According to your twisted logic only Catholic marriages are valid. A verdict NO historian shares. Bigotry again. This is leading nowhere, esp. since I suspect that this was just a lame attempt to cover up your blunder. Fanatics really are beyond reason.

[Elisabetta611]

And before I leave you to your self-rightous fanaticism...You realize that we could have discussed this politely. But from the very first post you made here, your tone has been condescending, bigoted and rude. You accept no other input except your own. Words of friendly advice: Try David Starkey's books on the Tudor dynasty. There are many others but Starkey is unmatched in the field today.

[art724]

Congratulations on passing the entry level test. I wanted to see if you are as dumb as you seem to be but I must give you credit that you are only as dumb as your writings. Of course, Edward was a bastard because Henry's marriage to Jane was never approved by the Church. He had been excummunicated following his defiant marriage to Anne. One who is excommunicated cannot receive the sacraments. Marriage is a sacrament. Ergo, his marriage to Jane was null and void and their son was a bastard.

[alanhaizum]

it is mean that Queen Elizabeth never met Queen Mary in their all life????

[mcmlxvi]

No, they never met. However, most of the words scriptted in the scenes where actually said to eachother in letters written through the french ambassador, the idea of sumarize all the letters in one single face to face conversation was a natural choice for all three movie. Elizabeth R (1971 TV) which you can watch here in Utube (for now) has the most accurate depiction of both Queens ever made in film.

[alanhaizum]

thnx for your explaination.i appreciate it so much

[rude1boii]

elizabeth's great great garandmother

catherine de moleyns had a brother

james de moleyns he had a mistress

called hennreitte she was from paris

there illigitimate daughter marie therese

is ancestor to my family.

my surname chirac comes from the french man she married henri-phillipe comte de chirac.

making anne boleyns ancestors and my ancestor related.

[art724]

I object to your designation of Elizabeth Tudor "The Vile Bastard", as Elisabeth I. As a heretic, she could no more sit on the throne of England than can the current heretic Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, a/k/a Elizabeth Windsor. The current legitimate King of England is Francis I!, Duke of Bavaria. His grandnephew,

Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein, born in 1995 in London, is the first heir to the throne born in England since James III in 1688. We trust in God and await the Restoration.

[Elisabetta611]

WTF? Heretic? Still living in the middle ages, aren't ya?

[art724]

Truth has no time limit.

[Elisabetta611]

What truth? I'm a Catholic myself but this is just RIDICULOUS. Elizabeth I. was the greatest Queen England ever had. One of the greatest monatchs EVER.

[art724]

Under Elizabeth, who was never the legitimate queen, it was a capital offense to say Mass. Hundreds of priests, especially Jesuits, were martyred under her barbarous reign, not to mention nobles and commoners. Queen Mary only had 330 protextant heretics executed in a brave effort to save England for the Church. Elizabeth was a monster. Thank God the Church is now accepting Anglicans back into the fold as the heresics of woman priests and gay marriage continue to infect Anglicanism.

[art724]

Elizabeth had the true queen, Mary Stuart, or properly Mary II of England, executed. Elizabeth could never be queen since first she was illegitimate and second she was not Catholic. Yor can't be king or queen of England and not be Catholic. When the Hanoverian succession was illegally extablished by Parilament, 142 people with a greater claim to the throne than George of Hanover were passed over simply because they were Catholic. Someday, God Willing, the true line of kngs will be restored.

[Elisabetta611]

The Scottish Tudor Line was barred from succeeding by Henry VIII. He named Elizabeth as his heir. Mary Stuart was a miserable queen and courted her disaster like a lover. Who says one has to be Catholic to rule a country? Utter nonsense. Certainly not hundreds. Jesuits who were smuggled into her realm to stir up rebellion. She had traitors executed. Read a history book. You call burning women a brave effort? You disgust me. You are bigoted and intolerant and a blot on Catholicism.

[art724]

You ask me to read a history book? Henry VIII named Edward the Bastard, Mary I and Elizabeth the Bastard in that order. He reconciled with Mary I before his death. Strange how you could claim that Henry barred the Stuart's from the succession. A Stuart succeeded Elizabeth, albeit a heretic since he had been taken from his mother, Mary Queen of Scots, and raised as one. Stuarts ruled until 1704.

[Elisabetta611]

Edward VI most certainly was not a bastard. And Elizabeth, no matter what you see her as, was the most brilliant of Henry's children. I do not claim that he barred them, it's a fact. It's written in his will. He wanted the children of his younger sister Mary to succeed him if neither Edward, Mary nor Elizabeth produced heirs. Elizabeth overruled that in 1603 and named James on her deathbed.

[art724]

Edward not a bastard? Where to you dream this up. Henry was granted a divorce by the Church of England after the Pope refused to allow an annnulment Only the Church has jurisdiction over marriage. That's why there is no divorce allowed in the Church until this day. Therefore since Henry was never legally married to Anne Boelyn, Edward was a bastard. You may not like that but under Canon Law, he was illegitimate and he always will be, as was Elizabeth.

[Elisabetta611]

Um, Edward's mother was JANE SEYMOUR, not Anne Boleyn. He married Jane after Anne Boleyn's execution in 1536. And given that both Katherine AND Anne were dead & gone, Edward was as legitimate as they come. So much for historical knowledge. Fascinating, so in addition to bigotry, ignorance (Anne Boleyn being Edward's mother, that's is one hell of a blunder) and intolerance, one may add violence to your list of virtues. Can't say I'm surprised. Last word? Don't care. Never have.

[Elisabetta611]

BTW, I find it funny that you call the persecution of people for their faiths ALONE a "brave effort" while condemning the executions of those who BROKE THE LAWS of the STATE (Not the church) to be monstrous. Cuius regio, eius religio. Don't like the laws in England? Well, move to a Catholic country! When the Armada attacked, her Catholic nobles and subjects fought by Elizabeth's side instead of joining Philip of Spain. Get it, bigoted hypocrite?

[art724]

So wrong. If the Armada had landed, the countryside would have risen for Philip since Elizabeth had not yet stamped out the true faith. The only chance the English had to defeat him was at sea. And nice try about saying you are a Catholic. We all know that Anglicans in their heresy still consider themselves Catholics. Of course, you aren't.

[Elisabetta611]

I'm Austrian, silly, yes, I am a Catholic. I respect greatness when I see it. I don't use a person's faith to judge them. Is Caesar any less great because he was not a Christian? How about picking up a history book rather than Schiller and Donizetti, hmmmm? I pity you, bigoted fool. You are self-righteous and assume to judge others like no man should. "Judge not lest you be judged!" remember? Ah, what's the use? The only vile one around here is you.

[art724]

Not only do you have no knowledge of history, you betray your own heritage. Filipe II was a Hapsburg, from the family which ruled your own country of Austria. His goal was to stamp out heresy as was that of his father, the great, Carlo I (V). All Austrians should honor the memory of these great emperors. You are a disgrace to your own country. And by the way, I am certain I have read much more history than you since that is my degree and from a Jesuit college to boot. I judge you a fool.

[Elisabetta611]

*Sighs* No wonder you're so twisted. With that background. History is not the issue here. I've studied Tudor history over 10 years. Your bigotry and hypocrisy revolt me. Our views of history should not be twisted by religious fanaticism. If you were a true historian, you'd know that. You betray your own beliefs as a CHRISTIAN by assuming to judge people like this. BTW, it's spelled Habsburg. *Pushes Block button*

[Elisabetta611]

So, Philip, the man you so respect, wanted to marry his dead wife's sister (The wife he betrayed, abused and was revolted by...poor Mary). Thank God Elizabeth was smart enough to reject that hypocrite. Philip however respected her, especially her statecraft. As did a Pope of the time who said that she, Queen of only half an island defied the whole world and triumphed. I have no respect for Henry's "Reformation" and the destruction of the monasteries. But Elizabeth was a marvel.

[art724]

You're entitled to your opinion no matter how historically inaccurate. I can't begin, in the limitations You Tube imposes on length of messages, to correct the absurdity of your opinions. They are simply not based on historical facts. I will however correct one - Philip wanted to marry Elizabeth for dynastic reasons, nothing more. Sorry for the spelling error. But of course people with nothing to say and nothing to support their opinions will always resort to nitpicking.Enjoy your stupidity.

[Elisabetta611]

Interesting how you always resort to insults and bitching rather than actual arguments. Did your Mommy never teach you some manners?

[art724]

Interesting. You call me vile and a bigoted fool yet say I resort to insults. Actual arguments? You have none. You state nonsence and say it is a fact. Since you believe it, it must be true. What a jerk. With all of the internet available, I am amazed that someone could be so uninformed. You are so closed minded that you have no idea of English or Eueopean history.

[Elisabetta611]

Pot calling the kettle black? At least I'm not a religious fanatic spouting about heresy and blessing the Marian persecutions. The ONE historical fact you mentioned in your last three rants was saying that Edward VI was illegitimate because Anne was never Henry's wife. (See it that way if you must) Anne's status had nothing to do with Edward as she was not his mother. And you tell ME I have no idea of English & European history? That kind of blunder is really....something.

[Elisabetta611]

Hardly. The whole country knew they were at war with Spain. The North (Most prominent Catholic part of her country) could have risen to betray her/join Philip. They did not. The victory over the Armada established England as Naval Power Nr. 1. As for respecting the Habsburgs.... I do respect them, however they were a flawed dynasty. (As were the Tudors) Religious fanaticism is wrong, especially in a ruler. Charles V was a great man. His son however wanted to MARRY Elizabeth. So....

[art724]

Finally, where I come from, if you mentioned my mother, you would now be looking for your teeth. But you hide behind you computer screen and hurl insults.  I'm done with you. No doubt a child like you will post again so you can have the last word like the spoined brat your mothger raised. What I can't believe is that someone as uneducated, uncultured and obviouysly delusional as you, has an interest in opera. Takes all kinds.

[Elisabetta611]

And lets see... Mary is remembered for her persecutions, bankrupting her country in a war with France to aid her husband (Who despised her), lost Calais... Elizabeth is remembered for the glory of the Elizabethan age. She was a ruler, not a pampered, spoiled brat like Mary of Scotland. She loved her country, made it great and powerful. She was far more tolerant than her fellow monarchs. Even the Pope at the time respected her, yes, even Philip II respected her statecraft.

[art724]

No matter how much the English people, who were led into heresy, loved Elizabeth and no matter how "glorious" the Elizabethan age was, she was still a heretic, a "vil bastarda" and never the rightful queen of England.The Elizabethan age led to colinialism, imperialism and the exploitation of hundreds of millions of people throughout the world.The English have caused more misery, death, pain and poverty than any other people in history.Thank God I have lived to see the end of the English empire.

[mcmlxvi]

What Restoration are you "awaiting" for?, you're not even british, are you stupid? What would a stupid american like you that can't find his own country in a map know about european history?

[art724]

The restoration of the House of Stuart and the Celtic Ascendancy, you idiot. Francis II, Duke of Bavaria is the Jacobite heir to the Scottish and English thrones and is the legitimate King. Elizabeth Windsor, like all her German predecessors, is a usurper. You're not British either. The Britons were Celts who became Romanized and who were eventually conquered by Anglo-Saxon scum. There are no Britons left except in Cornwall and Brittany. You're in Spain? Good! One less Saxon in England.

[mcmlxvi]

Like I'm going to have this discussion with a nutt case like you. Get professional help moron or better yet, get a life, look out the window, is the year 2009 not 1603. Squeaky Fromme has better grasp on reality than you.

[art724]

Truth never goes out of fashion no matter what the year. Neither Parliament nor the people decide who the king is. Kingship is passed down by birth. When Parliament attempted to give the crown to George of Hanover after the death of Anne, they passed over 142 people who had a better claim to the throne. That is a historical fact. Look it up, moron. That the English people accepted the usurpation by Parliament and the Hanoverians is irrelevant. Francis II is rightfully King.

[mcmlxvi]

Move on Gloria Swanson, stop messaging me, I'm not interested.

[art724]

I fully understand. With no facts on your side, you don't want to discuss this any further. Makes perfect sense. Of course, In that case, you should have never responded to my posts to begin with. Bye-bye loser.

[Elisabetta611]

And the Saxons were conquered by the Normans in 1066. Even before then the Celtic tribes inter-married/had children with Romans, Saxons etc. The Pureblood Celtic Line(s) doesn't exist. Why in hell or heaven do you care who rules the UK these days when kings are basically powerless? Don't we all have more pressing, REAL issues that demand our attention?

[art724]

Exaxctly. There are no Britons (purebred Celts) in England, escept in Cornwall. So don't call yourself British unless you're Cornish. Cornwall is one of the seven Celtic nations. There are also Britons in Brittany who escaped the Saxon invasion and fled across the Channel. Nice that it didn't take too long for you to agree with me And yes there are more pressing problems but that doesn't change the fact that Elizabeth Windsor is not the legitimate ruler. It's a fact and why do you care anyway?

[Hariszain111]

Hey, great job!

[rightnationalist]

Is it true Mary  only spoke French

[InnateNobility]

Mary was fluent in several languages, actually. Scots, French, Latin, Italian, Greek and she knew some Spanish. Eventually she learned Old English, but found it difficult during her captivity. Elizabeth and Mary always exchanged letters in French.

[gapeachjessica]

Katharine Hepburn and Vanessa Redgrave's portrayals of Mary are my favorite. Glenda Jackson is the best Elizabeth IMO. It's very interesting to see all the portrayals side by side. I wish Elizabeth and Mary had met face to face in reality.

[andra510]

Wonderful job!

My favorites are Helen Mirren as Elizabeth and Vanessa Redgrave as Mary.

I love the part when Elizabeth says that she had learned from her mother, Anne Boleyn, how it is to be a Queen today and walk to the scaffold the next day... Gorgeous phrase!

[324wilson]

This video is sooooooooo beauitful!

My fav. Elizabeth I are Glenda Jackson and then Helen Mirren!

[naithom]

Excellent video work. Well done.

[oxCrystalProductions]

They never met face to face.

[rebrebekah]

I don't think either of them was beautiful or youthful by the time Mary was executed! Age and menopause comes to all us ladies in the end LOL Mary's last few years were closely confined and inactive - it's highly likely that by the time she was executed well into her 40s, she'd put on weight, gone grey, and lost much of that famous sex appeal.

[orkneysnorknie]

well she did go grey...hence the awkward wig insedent at her excicution

[katharinethequene]

Why does one of them look like 15nyrs older than Elizabeth when she was actually really pretty and quite a bit younger than Elizabeth? lol its weird

[guardianangel10]

Ugh really only one of 'em has got it right, Mary Queen of Scots was actually really beautiful. But the differences between the two are rather interesting. One ruled with her heart, the other with her head. Therefore one bore a strong son and was a loving mother (when she was able to raise James) and the other was a powerful queen, but reamined barren all her life.

[girlznguitarz]

The actress of Mary dosnt do her justice at all. I believe they were both beautiful women.Mary was delicatly feminine and charming....not shown here...Elizabeth was more intelligent than Mary, however Mary was astute and held her own so to speak. And spoke up well for herself at her illegal trial.

[thewokersgang]

I'm directing a version of Schiller's 'Mary Stuart' for a production in Berkshire, England in March next year (2008) addicted to my research, loving Antonia Fraser etc - and this was fab!!

[TheBullen1]

Im glad you enjoyed.. really interesting how differnetly they have been portrayed. Id love to see your production.. do you plan to film it? Fraser does make a good read :)

[InnateNobility]

Poor Mary, she was a victim of ruthless, ambitious politicians and other monarchs around her. They used her as a scapegoat to accomplish the throne of England for their own ends, and in the end the Spanish let her be incriminated just to use that as a reason to declare Holy War on England.

[KittyTheInsaneManiac]

I believe that Elizabeth didn't want to her die, but their would have been outrage is she wasn't executed.

[girlznguitarz]

you can imagine the pressure on Elizabeth to execute mary...she never recovered....

[REREWHO]

lol, i enjoyed that :D

[bripat22]

Vanessa and Glenda shine!

[mirrenfan2]

This is so creative and interesting! I've only seen the Helen Mirren version but I want to see the others. I like Katharine Hepburn and Vanessa Redgrave. :)

[sjfriend]

i think im bo peeps sheep

[TheBullen1]

Yeah? Well I'm Bo... so bend over woolly boy!

[girlznguitarz]

get back to Bo Peep then, she is frantic with worry....

[sjfriend]

what? i cant see my comment, what did i write??

[Sadxlies]

wonderful vid! I liked all the different scenes put into one.