You are confusing Jesus and the Father. Jesus in His glory has shown himself to men. Isaiah in the temple (Isaiah 6) and to Moses throughout the exodus. Jesus' glory also appeared to three of the disciples during the transfiguration. All of these were Jesus, not God the Father. The reformation catechisms are referring to God the Father when they say He is spirit and no one has seen Him. They are not making this up, they are taking it from Scripture - 1 John 4:12 and others.
Jesus the Logos lights every man (Jn 1:9) and every one that draws closer to God grows closer to them, (James 4:8)
You are blaspheming God by saying you are Christian when you make God responsible for everyone who is saved or lost. You are a theorylogian and know not what it is to be converted. Wayne
Sir,have you ever read the Bible? Act 13:48 ...as many as were appointed,ordained,elected,chosen, handpicked,predestined,believed......NOT as many as believed were then appointed,ordained,elected,chosen,handpicked,predestined to eternal life.Concentrate,meditate,read the passage logically.The reason that we repent and believe is because God made us born again first.Man had nothing to do with his first birth,nor does he have anything to do with his second birth,that's why Jesus used born again.
@CBALLEN God chose and elected from the foundation of the world that all who followed his leading loving him more than life are the chosen. Nothing is said about the names or persons were known from all eternity.
@camis2222 How did God see men coming to Him before the foundation of the world when none have the ability to come unless the Father first draws them?The reason people aren't saved is because The Father never draws them.What you are saying is that salvation is by MAN'S WILL,and not God's will,when scripture makes it clear that salvation is by God's will alone,man does not choose to,nor can he save himself.
@camis2222 Indeed. All who choose to follow the Father's leading are the chosen. So the question is can an unregenerate man choose God? Do any men seek after God? The answer is no, no men seek after God. That's why Paul wrote Romans 3, to make clear that all men who come to God will be saved, but the only way they could come to God is because of the Holy Spirit working in their heart.
Just take the Bible for what it says about God. Theologians make God into an abstract idea. This places them in the position of pagans, for they do not believe in the Living God of the Bible who is giving to every man according to his works. The abstract God theory is based on legalism. Everyone they say is saved by a legal act from the foundation of the world. I have no works but what Jesus works in me. -Wayne
I don't know the entire context of argument. You seem to say God is not Spirit, when Scripture says He is a Spirit. He is also revealed and manifested to man in His Son, Jesus Christ. This is made known to man by the operation of the Holy Spirit which enlightens our understanding. And, truly man is judged by his works. You seem to be willing to stand before God with your own works. Is it not true that only the works of God in us are acceptable? Can natural man please God? I think not.
I knew James White aka "DrOakley" is following "Death," the 4th horse rider of Revelation 6. I am so glad someone else noticed what I see. Even his A & O logo displays the Cross of Christ 'fallen' before the Satanic Pyramid. One has to really pay attention to observe this well disguised Satanic illuminati deception.
" If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." -Deuteronomy 22:28-29
This is absolutely one of my most favourite videos of all time. Whenever I'm feeling a little down, I put this on and the medicine of laughter washes over me like a warm shower. Which is quite a coincidence because after watching this I feel like I NEED a shower.
Man get over it. All you mention is the wesminister confession .. Get over it man. It seems like you are so ignorant of the Word of God. God is in control from start to finish. What are you sayinf that you o man have control of God's Universe.
Of course I was talking to you. You look like an angry man. God here gets all the glory. Not man. Like I said God is in complete control And I am so Glad that he is.
From Genesis to Revelation salvation is of the Lord. God is sovereign not sovereign until. Today's christianity is man centered and has God catering to man. I hope that this man will see that he is defending man not God. God does as He wills not the other way around.
Wow! I don't think I've ever heard so much misrepresentation packed into 8 mins. Anyone who listens to White at all ought to know he rigorously speaks against alegorical interp (see debates with Harold Camping). All the early Church fathers weren't Christians? First, he just painted a several hundred years of history with one brush. Second, I bet they wish this guy had told them they weren't Christians while many of them were being carted to execution for being Christians.
fucking tart.. piss me off so much =/ your trashing youtube with your ugly face ! if u really think there is a god than he really punished yoU with that small brain and smelly breath
James White didn't say "Who are you, O man, to reply back to God ..." it was Christ, through the Apostle Paul. Look and see:
One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
There is the exegesis factor of the then and there of the text. We in the 21st Century are culturally removed, as well we are removed in Language. So looking at the "then and there" is crucial if we are to properly apply and interpret scripture for the "here and now". I know that the issue of predestination can be hard to take in at first. I was raised as a "Hyper-Arminian" and had a false sense of "Calvinism" taught to me.
(Note: It isn't about Calvinism or Arminianism. It is about truth. It is about the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the Disciples) When you allow yourself to look at scripture honestly with proper exegesis, and without allowing your feelings to get in the way it becomes clear and hard to avoid that God chooses who will be saved, and that He does predestine His elect. Romans and the Gospel of John clearly teach this.
There is a good teaching by Mark Driscoll that I would recommend that I found when I was researching and studding all of this. You can find it at the Mars Hill Church web site. Go to "media", under media there will be a link called "sermons" click it, then on the right hand side there is a series called "religion saves" In it there is sermon called "predestination".
Although this sermon does not share directly on John 3:16 it does clearly and biblically teach predestination, God chooses, and God's heart of love. Blessings on you.
Since the gentleman in this video clearly knows nothing about James White or RC Sproul, I find it amazing that he thinks he should reply to them. Maybe he should read their works before repying. What works of either man has this gentleman read?
Can camis2222 provide a list of books by White and/or Sproul that he has read?
This guy is great T.B.N. material! He should send out his resume' to Paul Crouch immediately!
Prick in his Heart? Maybe it's heartburn fella, take some Alka Seltzer.
By the way, where do you get the authority to tell some they are not a Christian? Do you know James Whites heart or for that matter any mans? Acts 15:8, Romans 8:27; Psalm 44:21
I'm pretty sure that James White A) does not believe Greek mythology, B) takes the Bible reasonably literally and C) is not a fatalist. This is the biggest straw -man argument I've ever seen by failing to interact with a true portrayal of reformed theology. I'd also not be quick to condemn someone as un-Christian who recognizes the sovereignty of God, the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit even if I didn't agree with them theologically otherwise.
Dr. James Whie no es él que nos dice "Mas antes, oh hombre ¿quién eres tú , para que alterques con Dios?" sino que el apóstol Pablo en Romanos 9:20 Necestiamos recordar el hecho somos nada mas que barro o lodo y Él es el alfarero.
The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion. Jesus is God, Lord, and Creator. We may not, due to our limited minds, be able to fully understand Him. However he does not defy "logical coherency".
Btw confusion would be a good one word summary of your videos.
I DON¨T Know who told you that BOOK of Life is not in the BIBLE , THE GREEK original says BIBLON and ZOE , it means BOOK OF LIFE , yes it is on the BIBLE .
You need to understan that camis 2222 , is not the Pastor WAYNE , is just the one upload his videos , and I am mexican so is difficul to me writte in english.
Yes not all the calvinist belive that you are free to chose or make election , and some misunderstand that if you are not elected you won´t be in his kingdom . IT dependes on your free will , GOD knowing wath you will choose , he elects you and fullfill his work in you
The Bible is easy to Understand , but difficult to obey , and all task are clear , and some times it give us parables or metaphor to explain thigs btter for our udersatanding.
YES of course GOD IS OMNISCIENT,HE knows everything about his creation, And YES He is inside his creation , AND of courseHE knows past present and future.
THAT is what the Bible says , But also HE is ABLE to Change his mind , That´s why we pray.
This verse is written for the christian converted Jews in ROME , so the main point in the contex is the pain paul feels for the no conerted JEWS , and he explains that not all of them will belive.And God knowing who is going to Belive chose the elected ones , and predestinate for his kingdom.But God is the one who decides who is going to be in his Kingdom , He IS GOD HE MADE US,SO Who are we to defeat him?But he choose in base of the free will of man. YOU DECIDE TO DO GOOD OR EVIL , NOT GOD¡
Mans freewill choice, to choose God, is not in the blble. Its an unbiblical 'Tradition', since the early 1900's. God is the one who chooses, not man. If you can say, you chose God, there would be room for boasting.
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Jos 24:15 (KJV)
Ohh, I think you misunderstand the point. The bible is clear, people will only 'choose' to do evil in Gods site. Quoting this text does not help your point. Israel, was constantly going against God. What do you do with Romans 3:10-12 There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless, there is none who does good, There is not even one.
The worst part is... this guy posted this because he became upset about James White quoting scripture. The "Who are you, oh man" comes right out of the Apostle Paul's words in Romans, and this is what prompted this guy to get all angry and upset at Dr. White.
Sounds like someone who has more of a problem with the Gospel than he does with Dr. White
I think you make a very good point jaiotu. It is really hard to make heads or tails out of the "sermon" in the video. The gentleman clearly does not understand the issues and because of his yelling does not make much sense.
Is there a remedy for such logical inconsistency and gross misunderstanding of Church history? This mans subjective conflations appear to be his "god".
If this gentleman was not serious it would be funny. His statement (in a reply) that "the Bible Teaches that God does´t Know every thing about his creation" is error (Is 46:8-11). Before you accuse others of "heresy", maybe you need to take a long look in the mirror.
Interesting....when he quotes Rev 22:19 about the "book of life" he's quoting something that was found in NO Greek manuscript but was translated back from Latin by Erasmus!
He's trying to quote literally something that doesn't exist!
Your right friend, we should dispense with all that fancy "book learnin" about them literary forms (like anthropomorphisims which help us accurately interact with the text) and just resign to the fact that the Bible teaches us that Jesus is a loaf of bread and a door - you are really a mixed bag!! - like some strange hybrid of mormonism and extreme arminianism or open theism - you really need to get a grip on the various literary forms in the Bible and to learn some good Theology
believing the Bible literally does not mean that it can not use symbolism or anaphoric language but it means, we believe it literally means what the author meant it to mean, if you are consistent with your belief then Jesus is a flat on both sides, swings on hings and has a handle on both sides as He said "I am the door" John 10:7
And everything else said just didn't make sense sorry but you are all over the place talking who knows what
Camis2222 Are you a Mormon? Just admit it...Jesus was not GOD, Jesus IS GOD and HE was GOD before HE was a man as HE existists eternally: "4Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his sons name? Surely you know!" Proverbs 30:4 You are wrong about deity. DEITY ABIDES in TRIUNE GOD and that means FATHER and SON and SPIRIT
Camis2222: "but the Bible teaches that all the cratin is in evolution with God in a permanet expansion , There is a chance for salvation for every one , not just the elected. " Mr. your belief is rampant with Greek Zeus like concept of deity. You have a pelagian view os salvation and all of that is repleted with Mormon, pagan view of God with human body attributes... With all of that you have audacity to rage against The Reformation or Dr.James White and his ministry. You are clueless Sir...
Camis2222, It is rather strange that you accuse Dr.White of the things that you yourself believe...Quote from you:"but the Bible teaches that all the cratin is in evolution with God in a permanet expansion , There is a chance for salvation for every one , not just the elected. " This expansion concept is a classic Zeus of Stoicism... You have pagan and pelagian beliefs combined with Mormon concept of God with physical body... and you have audicity to accuse Dr.White and The Reformers of the same
Mr. "prick in your heart. Confessions of Faith describe The LORD as nonphysical because the Word of God does it.50+ places in the Bible where you see GOD in the body are non argument. Your pitiful attempt to box The LORD in men like attributes puts you in the same camp with Mormons.Your attack on The Reformers is sad.Stoicism was not the only Greek School of thought.Greeks believed in Zeus with physical body which gives you and Mormons common denominator. You have no clue about Reformed Faith.
You couldn´t understand what he says , he means that the God of the Bible is Inside his creation , and he is growing with it . You can`t put God outside of the universe , because the God of the Bible , is a Personal God that interacts with man.
what in the world is this guy talking about? I thought he was going to start "debunking' Calvinism. Seriously, usually I'm used to non-Calvinists misrepresenting Calvinism. With this guy, I haven't a clue what he is representing or misrepresenting... wow... no idea...
The main idea he wants you to know , is that most of the crhistian belivers had founded their faith in the bases of methaphysics , not in the word of God , and it has Infected the modern christian ideology.
I believe that I can sum up the response of all people who are not confused, nor use the bible as a reference book to call upon in defending their human philosophy, when I say,
If you are a Beliver of the Bible , you must understand it literally what it says , because it is not of own interpretation , that`s why we have lots of sects and religions , But the word of God is easy to understand
Sir, Dr. White isn't taking the Bible as a big metaphor. And he certainly didn't just take his beliefs from Origen! And the Reformers certainly didn't!
Calvin, in his commentary on Romans, when talking about 7:14, wrote:
"The interpretation of Origen, although it was formerly approved by many, is not worth refuting. He says that the law is called spiritual by Paul, because the Scripture is not to be understood in a literal sense. What has this to do with the present subject?"
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink."
Assuming then, that Jesus wouldn't use a metaphor: when did you eat Him?
If men are responsible for election (a la the pelagian heresy) then by logical deduction one would have to conclude that it is no longer election on God's end but quite the reverse.
If you read the complet verse , he says that the wine represent his blood and the bread his body , and tey will do it in memmory of the Lord , the same Bible explains itself.
But what God wants to say is not a metaphor , that is what I mean . Here Wath God tries to say is that every thing belongs to him . We all understand that.
None of the Calvinists I know say that we are not responsible for our choices, neither do they say we ought not live in obedience.
And about John 6, it isn't about wine - it is about partaking in Christ. But even with wine being the explanation, it is still a metaphor. By the way, the 'in remembrance' verses are in Luke and 1 Cor.
About the Cattle, you are starting to understand - the metaphor conveys a point, that is the purpose of a metaphor.
This is not a strawman argumentation because He is not refuting any thing , he want´s to teach that the Christian theology is infected with metaphysics theology of greek concepts and not the Bible
It is a strawman argument unless you can prove James White is teaching metaphysics over Scripture.
All that is done in this video is that the assertion is made that Dr. White is teaching about Zeus. You need to prove that assertion by demonstrating from Dr. White's writings or teachings that it is so.
Not only White is teaching about Zeus , but most of the modern christian doctrine , he is just an example , predestination as calvinist point of view , just gives salvation for the elects , this is a metaphysic teaching that says all is predeterminate in the universe , but the Bible teaches that all the cratin is in evolution with God in a permanet expansion , There is a chance for salvation for every one , not just the elected.
The Bible Teaches that God does´t Know every thing about his creation, an example , is when he call abraham to make the sacrifice of Isaac , God Said NOW I KNOW , HE DIN´T KNOW What Abraham will do. This is just one example.
So you say God does not have knowledge of the future regarding his creation, as in how Abraham would react to God tempting him to sin.
Would you also say that God does not have knowledge of the present or past?
For example in Genesis 3, when God asks Adam, "Where art thou?" in the Garden of Eden.
Did God not know where Adam had gone just prior to God entering the garden (past action) or where Adam was hiding as he asked the question (present action)?
So... you're an open theist? Amazing admission. The Bible states, rather, that God has declared the end from the beginning (Isa 46) and even the flights of birds are known to Him. The God of the Bible decreed all that will come to pass so as to bring glory to His Son.
I would point out to you that there is no scientific fact that we did evolve.
You see, even those who suppress the knowledge of God by coming up with theories such as evolution to avoid the Fact of God are consistent with the Christian Scriptures.
Life may not seem consistent to the natural man but it is all consistent with biblical revelation.
Also, yes there is meaning to life, there is meaning to great joys and there is meaning in tragedy.
So apparantly God the Father has a physical body, no early Christian was actually a Christian, and God doesn't know the future...sounds like you are an LDS Open Theist.
If you take Revelation 22:19 literally, wouldn't you have to concede that "if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy" is refering solely to the Book of Revelation?
I think you're using this verse in a metaphorical sense to apply it to all of scripture.
Literally John the Revelator would have meant "this prophesy" to mean Revelation.
You might be confusing Zeus with the philosophers' "god." Neither of which "gods" Dr. White worships. The word of God, once read and understood, does indeed produce a strong reaction in those who don't like it.
Sir: I just put your video on my blog. One thing is for sure. You are fired up! You are zealous! But another thing is just as sure. You do not have the slightest idea what I believe or teach, either. :-)
I'm sorry you're angry. But Zeus, Marcus Aurelius, and Augustine's wife he should have married don't really have much to do with... anything I can think of that Dr. White has ever said.
I actually really feel sorry for this poor old fellow. This is sad to watch
whysohardto 7 months ago
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads, We shall look on God's face!
camis2222 9 months ago
You are confusing Jesus and the Father. Jesus in His glory has shown himself to men. Isaiah in the temple (Isaiah 6) and to Moses throughout the exodus. Jesus' glory also appeared to three of the disciples during the transfiguration. All of these were Jesus, not God the Father. The reformation catechisms are referring to God the Father when they say He is spirit and no one has seen Him. They are not making this up, they are taking it from Scripture - 1 John 4:12 and others.
blacklablovr 9 months ago
Jesus the Logos lights every man (Jn 1:9) and every one that draws closer to God grows closer to them, (James 4:8)
You are blaspheming God by saying you are Christian when you make God responsible for everyone who is saved or lost. You are a theorylogian and know not what it is to be converted. Wayne
camis2222 1 year ago
Um... ...
patrckhh20 1 year ago
Sir,have you ever read the Bible? Act 13:48 ...as many as were appointed,ordained,elected,chosen, handpicked,predestined,believed......NOT as many as believed were then appointed,ordained,elected,chosen,handpicked,predestined to eternal life.Concentrate,meditate,read the passage logically.The reason that we repent and believe is because God made us born again first.Man had nothing to do with his first birth,nor does he have anything to do with his second birth,that's why Jesus used born again.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN God chose and elected from the foundation of the world that all who followed his leading loving him more than life are the chosen. Nothing is said about the names or persons were known from all eternity.
camis2222 1 year ago
@camis2222 How did God see men coming to Him before the foundation of the world when none have the ability to come unless the Father first draws them?The reason people aren't saved is because The Father never draws them.What you are saying is that salvation is by MAN'S WILL,and not God's will,when scripture makes it clear that salvation is by God's will alone,man does not choose to,nor can he save himself.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@camis2222 Indeed. All who choose to follow the Father's leading are the chosen. So the question is can an unregenerate man choose God? Do any men seek after God? The answer is no, no men seek after God. That's why Paul wrote Romans 3, to make clear that all men who come to God will be saved, but the only way they could come to God is because of the Holy Spirit working in their heart.
blacklablovr 9 months ago
wonder how many inbreds go to this guy's church.
habsfan170 1 year ago
why don't you just deal with the romans 9 text and forget about zeus. not one mention of the text.
canucksteel 1 year ago
huh???
no1dagboy 1 year ago
Gleaningz
Just take the Bible for what it says about God. Theologians make God into an abstract idea. This places them in the position of pagans, for they do not believe in the Living God of the Bible who is giving to every man according to his works. The abstract God theory is based on legalism. Everyone they say is saved by a legal act from the foundation of the world. I have no works but what Jesus works in me. -Wayne
camis2222 1 year ago
I don't know the entire context of argument. You seem to say God is not Spirit, when Scripture says He is a Spirit. He is also revealed and manifested to man in His Son, Jesus Christ. This is made known to man by the operation of the Holy Spirit which enlightens our understanding. And, truly man is judged by his works. You seem to be willing to stand before God with your own works. Is it not true that only the works of God in us are acceptable? Can natural man please God? I think not.
Gleaningz 1 year ago
James White is a Pagan who makes a living of 1 Peter 3:15
abideandwait 1 year ago
I knew James White aka "DrOakley" is following "Death," the 4th horse rider of Revelation 6. I am so glad someone else noticed what I see. Even his A & O logo displays the Cross of Christ 'fallen' before the Satanic Pyramid. One has to really pay attention to observe this well disguised Satanic illuminati deception.
askonething 1 year ago
" If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." -Deuteronomy 22:28-29
disgusting
preachersaredumb 1 year ago
This is absolutely one of my most favourite videos of all time. Whenever I'm feeling a little down, I put this on and the medicine of laughter washes over me like a warm shower. Which is quite a coincidence because after watching this I feel like I NEED a shower.
Pilgrimsarbour 1 year ago
This is pathetic
stephenolan 2 years ago
Man get over it. All you mention is the wesminister confession .. Get over it man. It seems like you are so ignorant of the Word of God. God is in control from start to finish. What are you sayinf that you o man have control of God's Universe.
rodovengo 2 years ago
Huh? Was that to me? I don't understand...
stephenolan 2 years ago
Of course I was talking to you. You look like an angry man. God here gets all the glory. Not man. Like I said God is in complete control And I am so Glad that he is.
rodovengo 2 years ago
@rodovengo O.......K.
stephenolan 1 year ago
From Genesis to Revelation salvation is of the Lord. God is sovereign not sovereign until. Today's christianity is man centered and has God catering to man. I hope that this man will see that he is defending man not God. God does as He wills not the other way around.
Warhorse22 2 years ago
Wow! I don't think I've ever heard so much misrepresentation packed into 8 mins. Anyone who listens to White at all ought to know he rigorously speaks against alegorical interp (see debates with Harold Camping). All the early Church fathers weren't Christians? First, he just painted a several hundred years of history with one brush. Second, I bet they wish this guy had told them they weren't Christians while many of them were being carted to execution for being Christians.
Jeez! Wacko!
MrScooterWolf 2 years ago
fucking tart.. piss me off so much =/ your trashing youtube with your ugly face ! if u really think there is a god than he really punished yoU with that small brain and smelly breath
MrNoodl 2 years ago
crazy old man hearing voices in his head.. its not a god.. its what u want to hear
MrNoodl 2 years ago
Has this poor man lived his whole life without a formal diagnosis? THERE ARE DRUGS THAT CAN HELP YOU.
deweytrux 2 years ago
Will somebody please wheel this man back to his room and give him his meds!
VeritasSolus 2 years ago
James White worships Zeus? My word, brother
pokemaughan 2 years ago
At least he makes more sense than James Hunt...
jgrig2 2 years ago
all of them darn theologians, I dont needa darn greek, hebrew, or aramaic but I need my 1611 kjv and the holy ghost and that beats anyone everytime.
jgrig2 2 years ago
Sir, i hope that you are not a pastor!
mccallidaho 2 years ago
this guy is rambling on and making no sense.
yzdd777 2 years ago
Colossians 1:15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
psk6565 2 years ago
Is this guy a Mormon? It is quite clear the Father has no body.
psk6565 2 years ago
James White didn't say "Who are you, O man, to reply back to God ..." it was Christ, through the Apostle Paul. Look and see:
One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
stegokitty 2 years ago
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stegokitty 2 years ago
I thought he was going to have a heart attack.
Haukman66 2 years ago
haha
psk6565 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is the exegesis factor of the then and there of the text. We in the 21st Century are culturally removed, as well we are removed in Language. So looking at the "then and there" is crucial if we are to properly apply and interpret scripture for the "here and now". I know that the issue of predestination can be hard to take in at first. I was raised as a "Hyper-Arminian" and had a false sense of "Calvinism" taught to me.
TruthinTension 2 years ago
(Note: It isn't about Calvinism or Arminianism. It is about truth. It is about the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the Disciples) When you allow yourself to look at scripture honestly with proper exegesis, and without allowing your feelings to get in the way it becomes clear and hard to avoid that God chooses who will be saved, and that He does predestine His elect. Romans and the Gospel of John clearly teach this.
TruthinTension 2 years ago
There is a good teaching by Mark Driscoll that I would recommend that I found when I was researching and studding all of this. You can find it at the Mars Hill Church web site. Go to "media", under media there will be a link called "sermons" click it, then on the right hand side there is a series called "religion saves" In it there is sermon called "predestination".
TruthinTension 2 years ago
Although this sermon does not share directly on John 3:16 it does clearly and biblically teach predestination, God chooses, and God's heart of love. Blessings on you.
TruthinTension 2 years ago
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TruthinTension 2 years ago
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TruthinTension 2 years ago
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TruthinTension 2 years ago
Since the gentleman in this video clearly knows nothing about James White or RC Sproul, I find it amazing that he thinks he should reply to them. Maybe he should read their works before repying. What works of either man has this gentleman read?
Can camis2222 provide a list of books by White and/or Sproul that he has read?
scrollblog 3 years ago
Sir, your Semi-Pelagian/Arminian rambling in this video have already been disprove time after time give it a rest.
Finally, You defy James White to get on his knees? Shouldn't you be praying for James White? Luke 6:27
gadflyj 3 years ago
This guy is great T.B.N. material! He should send out his resume' to Paul Crouch immediately!
Prick in his Heart? Maybe it's heartburn fella, take some Alka Seltzer.
By the way, where do you get the authority to tell some they are not a Christian? Do you know James Whites heart or for that matter any mans? Acts 15:8, Romans 8:27; Psalm 44:21
gadflyj 3 years ago
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gadflyj 3 years ago
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gadflyj 3 years ago
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gadflyj 3 years ago
Huh?? Is this a joke response?
Glory2HisProvidence 3 years ago
Wow. Just wow. James White a Zeus worshiper. Whooda thunk?
randyl74 3 years ago
I'm pretty sure that James White A) does not believe Greek mythology, B) takes the Bible reasonably literally and C) is not a fatalist. This is the biggest straw -man argument I've ever seen by failing to interact with a true portrayal of reformed theology. I'd also not be quick to condemn someone as un-Christian who recognizes the sovereignty of God, the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit even if I didn't agree with them theologically otherwise.
jimpemberton 3 years ago
Is this guy a Mormon? He seems to be arguing that God has a physical body.
philochristos 3 years ago
I wise man once said - You can't fix stupid.
kbglenn94 3 years ago
what is more philosophically based than Arminianism? And what is more Biblically based than Calvinism?
btw. Fatalism is determinism without purpose. By definition Calvinists could not believe in God and a universe without purpose.
seriously.
buttearthfacehead 3 years ago
This is sad.
thbslawson 3 years ago
Wow i don't think this guy has any idea what he's talking about
Xxterminus2xX 3 years ago
What the heck are you babbling about sir?
Masiewicz 3 years ago
Rambling on and on and on....incoherently. Very sad.
valambiguous 3 years ago
silly sausage
calvinskid 3 years ago
kooky. very very kooky. not sure if i should be laughing or feeling pity for this silly old guy.
iliketopreach 3 years ago
Dr. James Whie no es él que nos dice "Mas antes, oh hombre ¿quién eres tú , para que alterques con Dios?" sino que el apóstol Pablo en Romanos 9:20 Necestiamos recordar el hecho somos nada mas que barro o lodo y Él es el alfarero.
HermanoRicardo336 3 years ago
Freewill is an unknown doctrine to the scriptures.
Oct31st1517 3 years ago
JESUS defies logical coherency.
camis2222 3 years ago
"JESUS defies logical coherency." camis2222
So THAT explains why you rant and rave so incoherently, sir, you are trying to imitate your god.
Blogrich55 3 years ago
So Jesus is an idiot??? Listen to the video - rambling and making ZERO sense...
YoungCalvinist08 3 years ago
camis2222 said: "JESUS defies logical coherency"
==WRONG!!!!
The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion. Jesus is God, Lord, and Creator. We may not, due to our limited minds, be able to fully understand Him. However he does not defy "logical coherency".
Btw confusion would be a good one word summary of your videos.
scrollblog 3 years ago
This defies logical coherency....
scribe7580 3 years ago
EVERY THING IS IN GOD control , I gives me peace , knowing he is in control.
camis2222 3 years ago
I DON¨T Know who told you that BOOK of Life is not in the BIBLE , THE GREEK original says BIBLON and ZOE , it means BOOK OF LIFE , yes it is on the BIBLE .
camis2222 3 years ago
You need to understan that camis 2222 , is not the Pastor WAYNE , is just the one upload his videos , and I am mexican so is difficul to me writte in english.
camis2222 3 years ago
Yes not all the calvinist belive that you are free to chose or make election , and some misunderstand that if you are not elected you won´t be in his kingdom . IT dependes on your free will , GOD knowing wath you will choose , he elects you and fullfill his work in you
camis2222 3 years ago
YOU said that He is mormon , but he isn´t He just try to understand what the Bible says.
camis2222 3 years ago
The Bible is easy to Understand , but difficult to obey , and all task are clear , and some times it give us parables or metaphor to explain thigs btter for our udersatanding.
camis2222 3 years ago
YES of course GOD IS OMNISCIENT,HE knows everything about his creation, And YES He is inside his creation , AND of courseHE knows past present and future.
THAT is what the Bible says , But also HE is ABLE to Change his mind , That´s why we pray.
camis2222 3 years ago
What of the Immutability of God?
scribe7580 3 years ago
koo, koo. . . . koo, koo. . .
We must pray for this confused and misguided soul.
hollandmin 3 years ago
Quoting spicenut:
I asked this guy to give us his exegesis of Romans 9:9-26 and he deleted my entry.
Nuff said.
rpavich 3 years ago
This verse is written for the christian converted Jews in ROME , so the main point in the contex is the pain paul feels for the no conerted JEWS , and he explains that not all of them will belive.And God knowing who is going to Belive chose the elected ones , and predestinate for his kingdom.But God is the one who decides who is going to be in his Kingdom , He IS GOD HE MADE US,SO Who are we to defeat him?But he choose in base of the free will of man. YOU DECIDE TO DO GOOD OR EVIL , NOT GOD¡
camis2222 3 years ago
Sir, you did not exegete the passage for us. You gave a very poor explanation which is actually self-contradictory.
I have two suggestions for you:
1. Look up the word exegesis.
2. Give us the exegesis on Romans 9:9-26
Thank you.
spicenut 3 years ago
Mans freewill choice, to choose God, is not in the blble. Its an unbiblical 'Tradition', since the early 1900's. God is the one who chooses, not man. If you can say, you chose God, there would be room for boasting.
Haukman66 2 years ago
Oh, really. Consider the following:
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Jos 24:15 (KJV)
LastDaysMinstrel 2 years ago
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jdw5a 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Look at the context. Who was Joshua giving this command to in Joshua 24:1-2?
Joshua was speaking the people that were already chosen! Israel was God's chosen people, right?
It's like Jesus said in John 15:19, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you..."
Joshua wasn't telling an unsaved people to choose salvation, he was telling a saved people to choose obedience.
jdw5a 2 years ago
Ohh, I think you misunderstand the point. The bible is clear, people will only 'choose' to do evil in Gods site. Quoting this text does not help your point. Israel, was constantly going against God. What do you do with Romans 3:10-12 There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless, there is none who does good, There is not even one.
Haukman66 2 years ago 2
I asked this guy to give us his exegesis of Romans 9:9-26 and he deleted my entry.
spicenut 3 years ago
I went through and watched the other videos. Nothing different. Pretty much the exact same thing over and over again.
scrollblog 3 years ago
The worst part is... this guy posted this because he became upset about James White quoting scripture. The "Who are you, oh man" comes right out of the Apostle Paul's words in Romans, and this is what prompted this guy to get all angry and upset at Dr. White.
Sounds like someone who has more of a problem with the Gospel than he does with Dr. White
jaiotu 3 years ago
I think you make a very good point jaiotu. It is really hard to make heads or tails out of the "sermon" in the video. The gentleman clearly does not understand the issues and because of his yelling does not make much sense.
scrollblog 3 years ago
Is there a remedy for such logical inconsistency and gross misunderstanding of Church history? This mans subjective conflations appear to be his "god".
scribe7580 3 years ago
I don't have a clue what this guy is talking about
LOL
oldbeans316 3 years ago
If this gentleman was not serious it would be funny. His statement (in a reply) that "the Bible Teaches that God does´t Know every thing about his creation" is error (Is 46:8-11). Before you accuse others of "heresy", maybe you need to take a long look in the mirror.
scrollblog 3 years ago
Dude, you are just not smart at all...
YoungCalvinist08 3 years ago
Interesting....when he quotes Rev 22:19 about the "book of life" he's quoting something that was found in NO Greek manuscript but was translated back from Latin by Erasmus!
He's trying to quote literally something that doesn't exist!
now that's funny...
rpavich 3 years ago
This is the funniest thing I've ever seen (the video) and read (the insane comments by Camis2222)
What a sad commentary on the state of Christian discernment and education.
rpavich 3 years ago
What just happend?!
damildlyshreddah 3 years ago
Your right friend, we should dispense with all that fancy "book learnin" about them literary forms (like anthropomorphisims which help us accurately interact with the text) and just resign to the fact that the Bible teaches us that Jesus is a loaf of bread and a door - you are really a mixed bag!! - like some strange hybrid of mormonism and extreme arminianism or open theism - you really need to get a grip on the various literary forms in the Bible and to learn some good Theology
lahridon2000 3 years ago
believing the Bible literally does not mean that it can not use symbolism or anaphoric language but it means, we believe it literally means what the author meant it to mean, if you are consistent with your belief then Jesus is a flat on both sides, swings on hings and has a handle on both sides as He said "I am the door" John 10:7
And everything else said just didn't make sense sorry but you are all over the place talking who knows what
lozersk8er 3 years ago
Camis2222 Are you a Mormon? Just admit it...Jesus was not GOD, Jesus IS GOD and HE was GOD before HE was a man as HE existists eternally: "4Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his sons name? Surely you know!" Proverbs 30:4 You are wrong about deity. DEITY ABIDES in TRIUNE GOD and that means FATHER and SON and SPIRIT
MilhamaH777 3 years ago
amazing! how can you be more wrong!??!
got2liv4him 3 years ago
PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE AM I WRONG???
camis2222 3 years ago
you misinterpret Dr. White's words and intentions, not to mention the Bible... is English your first language? (not sarcasm)
got2liv4him 3 years ago
Please give us your interpretation of Romans 9:9-30
Also, you do not believe that God is omniscient, right ?
Would this mean you also believe that God is not outside of time ?
Would this mean you also believe that God is not outside of space?
Thank you. I look forward to your responses.
spicenut 3 years ago
Camis2222: "but the Bible teaches that all the cratin is in evolution with God in a permanet expansion , There is a chance for salvation for every one , not just the elected. " Mr. your belief is rampant with Greek Zeus like concept of deity. You have a pelagian view os salvation and all of that is repleted with Mormon, pagan view of God with human body attributes... With all of that you have audacity to rage against The Reformation or Dr.James White and his ministry. You are clueless Sir...
MilhamaH777 3 years ago
Well my Dear , JESUS was a man and the Bible Thech that HE was GOD , and all deity abides in JESUS . How are you going to deal with thaT?
camis2222 3 years ago
Camis2222, It is rather strange that you accuse Dr.White of the things that you yourself believe...Quote from you:"but the Bible teaches that all the cratin is in evolution with God in a permanet expansion , There is a chance for salvation for every one , not just the elected. " This expansion concept is a classic Zeus of Stoicism... You have pagan and pelagian beliefs combined with Mormon concept of God with physical body... and you have audicity to accuse Dr.White and The Reformers of the same
MilhamaH777 3 years ago
What is "the incense of God," anyway? And how do you get it into your heart?
ExN1hilo 3 years ago
It must be something only "true christians" have and not those wicked men like james white and other reformed theologians LOL
christissovereign 3 years ago
I guess it's akin to the "fruits" of men from the Bible, which is what we call a...metaphor.
VanTilsBoy 3 years ago
lol oh my gosh...this guy better not be teaching anyone.
jaminhubner 3 years ago
Well , you should be opened , maybe he could be rigth.
camis2222 3 years ago
I wouldn't bank on it....
scribe7580 3 years ago
Mr. "prick in your heart. Confessions of Faith describe The LORD as nonphysical because the Word of God does it.50+ places in the Bible where you see GOD in the body are non argument. Your pitiful attempt to box The LORD in men like attributes puts you in the same camp with Mormons.Your attack on The Reformers is sad.Stoicism was not the only Greek School of thought.Greeks believed in Zeus with physical body which gives you and Mormons common denominator. You have no clue about Reformed Faith.
MilhamaH777 3 years ago
You couldn´t understand what he says , he means that the God of the Bible is Inside his creation , and he is growing with it . You can`t put God outside of the universe , because the God of the Bible , is a Personal God that interacts with man.
camis2222 3 years ago
THIS VIDEO IS HILARIOUS!!! hahahaha...
what in the world is this guy talking about? I thought he was going to start "debunking' Calvinism. Seriously, usually I'm used to non-Calvinists misrepresenting Calvinism. With this guy, I haven't a clue what he is representing or misrepresenting... wow... no idea...
buttearthfacehead 3 years ago
The main idea he wants you to know , is that most of the crhistian belivers had founded their faith in the bases of methaphysics , not in the word of God , and it has Infected the modern christian ideology.
camis2222 3 years ago
I believe that I can sum up the response of all people who are not confused, nor use the bible as a reference book to call upon in defending their human philosophy, when I say,
"Huh?"
ntbcbilly 3 years ago
If you are a Beliver of the Bible , you must understand it literally what it says , because it is not of own interpretation , that`s why we have lots of sects and religions , But the word of God is easy to understand
camis2222 3 years ago
Watching this video was like....surreal... I don't understand what you're talking about man..
Daninkorea 3 years ago
Christian life is surreal , remember that it comes from heaven.
camis2222 3 years ago
Sir, Dr. White isn't taking the Bible as a big metaphor. And he certainly didn't just take his beliefs from Origen! And the Reformers certainly didn't!
Calvin, in his commentary on Romans, when talking about 7:14, wrote:
"The interpretation of Origen, although it was formerly approved by many, is not worth refuting. He says that the law is called spiritual by Paul, because the Scripture is not to be understood in a literal sense. What has this to do with the present subject?"
brianbiggs 3 years ago
Yes But you shouldn`t take any part of the Bible as a metaphor, If you Belive in the Bible to be the True it has to be taken Complete.
camis2222 3 years ago
Sir, I do take the Bible as complete. But I also allow it to use literary devices.
John 6:53-55
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink."
Assuming then, that Jesus wouldn't use a metaphor: when did you eat Him?
brianbiggs 3 years ago
Also, how would one take Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 and 9 literally, yet deny Calvinism?
brianbiggs 3 years ago
Romas 8 prove that men is responsable for their elections , and choises , if I am with christ I need to live in obidence with the holy spirit ,
camis2222 3 years ago
If men are responsible for election (a la the pelagian heresy) then by logical deduction one would have to conclude that it is no longer election on God's end but quite the reverse.
scribe7580 3 years ago
If you read the complet verse , he says that the wine represent his blood and the bread his body , and tey will do it in memmory of the Lord , the same Bible explains itself.
camis2222 3 years ago
Uh...what? Ps. 50:10: "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."
To whom do the cattle on the 1,001st hill belong? That's called a metaphor. Want more?
VanTilsBoy 3 years ago
But what God wants to say is not a metaphor , that is what I mean . Here Wath God tries to say is that every thing belongs to him . We all understand that.
camis2222 3 years ago
None of the Calvinists I know say that we are not responsible for our choices, neither do they say we ought not live in obedience.
And about John 6, it isn't about wine - it is about partaking in Christ. But even with wine being the explanation, it is still a metaphor. By the way, the 'in remembrance' verses are in Luke and 1 Cor.
About the Cattle, you are starting to understand - the metaphor conveys a point, that is the purpose of a metaphor.
brianbiggs 3 years ago
this is a great example of strawman argumentation.
christissovereign 3 years ago 3
This is not a strawman argumentation because He is not refuting any thing , he want´s to teach that the Christian theology is infected with metaphysics theology of greek concepts and not the Bible
camis2222 3 years ago
It is a strawman argument unless you can prove James White is teaching metaphysics over Scripture.
All that is done in this video is that the assertion is made that Dr. White is teaching about Zeus. You need to prove that assertion by demonstrating from Dr. White's writings or teachings that it is so.
jdw5a 3 years ago 2
Not only White is teaching about Zeus , but most of the modern christian doctrine , he is just an example , predestination as calvinist point of view , just gives salvation for the elects , this is a metaphysic teaching that says all is predeterminate in the universe , but the Bible teaches that all the cratin is in evolution with God in a permanet expansion , There is a chance for salvation for every one , not just the elected.
camis2222 3 years ago
All you're giving is statements of what you believe and what others believe.
You say that Calvinism is based on metaphysics. But I don't agree with that. You haven't offered any kind of proof. You're just making statements.
The Bible contains the words "elect" "election" and "predestined". What do you think these biblical words mean?
Also, could you explain how God is evolving along with the universe? I disagree. Could you show where the Bible teaches this?
jdw5a 3 years ago
The Bible Teaches that God does´t Know every thing about his creation, an example , is when he call abraham to make the sacrifice of Isaac , God Said NOW I KNOW , HE DIN´T KNOW What Abraham will do. This is just one example.
camis2222 3 years ago
So you say God does not have knowledge of the future regarding his creation, as in how Abraham would react to God tempting him to sin.
Would you also say that God does not have knowledge of the present or past?
For example in Genesis 3, when God asks Adam, "Where art thou?" in the Garden of Eden.
Did God not know where Adam had gone just prior to God entering the garden (past action) or where Adam was hiding as he asked the question (present action)?
jdw5a 3 years ago
So... you're an open theist? Amazing admission. The Bible states, rather, that God has declared the end from the beginning (Isa 46) and even the flights of birds are known to Him. The God of the Bible decreed all that will come to pass so as to bring glory to His Son.
klockheed 3 years ago
"...but the Bible teaches that all the cratin is in evolution with God in a permanet expansion."
Uh, what?
srprimeaux 3 years ago
Actually my point was a from a very confused soul trying to find some help in these matters. That was a mistake I removed it.
MyHeadisupMyBackside 2 years ago
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MyHeadisupMyBackside 3 years ago
Uhm...which vast majority of science is turned on its head by denying man's evolution?
bandobraeschen 3 years ago
I would point out to you that there is no scientific fact that we did evolve.
You see, even those who suppress the knowledge of God by coming up with theories such as evolution to avoid the Fact of God are consistent with the Christian Scriptures.
Life may not seem consistent to the natural man but it is all consistent with biblical revelation.
Also, yes there is meaning to life, there is meaning to great joys and there is meaning in tragedy.
DaleC1980 3 years ago
So apparantly God the Father has a physical body, no early Christian was actually a Christian, and God doesn't know the future...sounds like you are an LDS Open Theist.
spriles 3 years ago 4
Was not Dionysus born from Zeus' thigh? How was this possible if he had no body?
klockheed 3 years ago
I thought that Dionysus was sown unto Zeus' thigh after his death. This is the clear cut "resurrection" that Christianity copied ;-)
damildlyshreddah 3 years ago
Oh yes! That's it... or... something. Lots of body to sew.
klockheed 3 years ago
Joh 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
1Ti 1:17 To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
klockheed 3 years ago
Another problem, You asked God to "Lift [Dr. White] out of this lie."
You want God to violate Dr. White's free will? You sound like a Calvinist when you pray!
jdw5a 3 years ago 6
If you take Revelation 22:19 literally, wouldn't you have to concede that "if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy" is refering solely to the Book of Revelation?
I think you're using this verse in a metaphorical sense to apply it to all of scripture.
Literally John the Revelator would have meant "this prophesy" to mean Revelation.
jdw5a 3 years ago
You might be confusing Zeus with the philosophers' "god." Neither of which "gods" Dr. White worships. The word of God, once read and understood, does indeed produce a strong reaction in those who don't like it.
maggoli67 3 years ago 3
Sir: I just put your video on my blog. One thing is for sure. You are fired up! You are zealous! But another thing is just as sure. You do not have the slightest idea what I believe or teach, either. :-)
James White
DrOakley1689 3 years ago 14
Zeus? Bit of a stretch.
FATMIME 3 years ago 2
I'm sorry you're angry. But Zeus, Marcus Aurelius, and Augustine's wife he should have married don't really have much to do with... anything I can think of that Dr. White has ever said.
RazorsKiss 3 years ago 10