Serves the murdering cowards right to be shot down. Be a mass murdering psycho as a civilian & get the death sentence. Do it in the forces & get a fucking medal. Idiots. "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." Henry - Kissinger
First Let me say that McCain was in the Navy and would not have known anything about the B-52 strike routing packages., that said the crewmember in the video is a gentlemen by the name of James Gough, I believe he was a Master Sgt at the time and he was the gunner on that particular aircraft. It was shot down over Hanoi in late December 1972, and thankfully Jim came home with all of the rest of the POW in early 1973. He was serving with the 441st Bomb Sq. Mather AFB, CA.
@MiHiVidz Agreed. That was a major fail! Just about everyone worldwide hates America's guts.....that is until they get their asses in a bind or something bad happens to them then they mercifully beg to save them just so they can live another day to hate the America some more!
Maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen China, Vietnam, Cuba, North Korea or any other communist nation busting their butts to help any other nation out during a time of crises, that is unless it's one of their own!
@ryanspeed I love the states and visit often, but until they shut down their bases around the planet and turn the USA into Fortress America and stay the hell out of everyone's business they will always be the target of those that they pissed off. Ron Paul has it right and he should be the next President. BTW I am an Aussie and the US is a close ally, that is we still follow them blindly into every shitfight that they start. We are slow learners down here,Vietnam, Iraq Afghanistan.
As an American myself I'm sick and tired of us being the world cop yet by the same token if we dont keep an interest in certain parts of the world who knows what may happen. If something happens that harms the USA then we should deal with it and not drag everyone else in to it that is unless it affects another countries interest (Australia for exaple) then the Aussies should decide whether or not to enter and NOT have the USA push them in it!
I cant believe people are accusing POWs of being responsible for aircraft losses over Hanoi. The country was fielding the absolute best SAM tech available at the time. Its difficult to hide a flight of B52s from radar. in fact all they could do was try and jam or spoof the SAM sites, other than that it was pretty much luck of the draw.
The bomber stream probably came up on radar while still in the south.
tbh I cant believe Im even responding to such utter bullshit.
Are you sure that was the pilot? I heard that one B-52 that was shot down on Linebacker II only had the navigator make it....BTW shooting down a BUFF was also costly to the N Vietnamese because the wreckage usually hit places where people lived (farms, towns, etc.)
So, there were a large number of B52's shot down after Mc Cain gave into interrogation by VC.
He told the NVC the bombing routes that were planned.
Only people who knew him in Hanoi and leaked this information talk about it. Senator Mc Cain denies he gave up the mapped routes of B52's doing carpet bombing runs.
@michaelpilot1000 Think about it? McCain was shot down in 1967. The majority off B-52 shootdowns took place in late 1972 and one in 1973. One B-52 was lost to enemy action in 1967 before McCain was shot down. Sorry, but your claim is complete non-sense. McCain would have absolutely no knowledge of routes used five years later. The B-52s losses were due to the intensity of radar guided SAMs around Hanoi and acknowledged Soviet assistance with air defence personnel.
@michaelpilot1000 He wouldn't have known them, that's why they have SINGLE mission briefings before going on a run. They don't give you the next ten missions in advance, in case you are shot down. He'd know basics but then so would the NVA. Hanoi isn't that large a place. Deluded much?
To the moron militaryphotos mod "HOLLIS" who banned my account (again) for posting this video I tell him it is not "Propaganda" it is just a French Archive read the video description.
@WTFmode1 what is it with those military photos guys?
I didnt even know who they were unitl I started getting complaints from them over some warfare related vids I put up on another account.
None of them had anything to do with them, they werent political (if war can ever be non-political lol) but nevertheless they strted harrassing me on youtube!
@WTFmode1 No, I think you're a first class moron...So obviously you weren't there... If you just want to post the video, from a film / "look what I found," sort of view, that's fine, but when you start adding detailed descriptions about what you think happened, and pas it off as fact, then you've crossed the line... If you want to preface it with, "This is what the NVA said happened..." then again, that's OK... Because you obviously do not have a clue what happened then & there...
@RunningSwimmingMan hey asswipe, make us a video or then or shut the fuck up. you seem to just want to run your mouth off without giving us the goods. how fucking pathetic is that? ifor one enjoyed the video. and if he added a comment you object to thats just to fucking bad now isnt it.
"A broken clock is right twice a day" The North Vietnamese fired every SA-2 in their inventory for a handful of B-52's shot down. After the US Air Force changed their tactics on 26 Dec, they cut their losses dramatically. Hanoi was brought to it's knees. They gave us what ever we wanted. In return, we stopped bombing & cleared their harbor of mines. We should have held out for more, but all we wanted was to get our POWs back & get out & go home on our terms.
no they didn't. The revised and final "peace" agreement was just what they had previously agreed to before Thieu got pissy over Kissinger selling him out. There were just 13 minor changes between the October and January agreements.
The bombing campaign was violent but also underscored to the Vietnamese people the abject lack of justice of the US position -- we were trying to win via B-52s what we couldn't win on the ground.
@tachikaze222 The NVA had already been defeated post Easter offensive. Operation Linebacker II's objective was to cripple North Vietnam & allow us to go home. We wanted our POWs. We got our POWs. Our trump card was mining their harbors. We graciously cleared them under End Sweep. What was done in 1972 should have been done in 1966. The outcome would've been very different. Regrefully, the United States didn't insist that all remaining NVA troops be removed from the south before relenting.
@tachikaze222 By 'defeated' I mean "unable to continue their campaign. They set out to defeat the south & were unable to do. It took them until 1975.. 2 1/2 years after our withdrawal before they were able to reconstitute & push south. Had the strategic "all out" campaign with the ROE of Linebacker been done in 1966 (before widespread public disapproval) It most certainly would have changed the outcome. The reason why LB II was a bit of a pyrrhic victory is that it was a day late/dollar short.
@9Apilot >They set out to defeat the south & were unable to do
They left 1972 stronger than they had entered it.
>ROE of Linebacker been done in 1966
There was no solution the USAF could provide other than targeting NVN population centers like we did in Japan. Yes, LeMay wanted to do that. But McNamara and LBJ were very mindful that escalation was a two-way street and getting into an actual shooting war with China again was not in our nation's short, medium, or long term interests.
@tachikaze222 ROE never involved targeting civilians..(.carpet bomb), '72 ROE meant going after actual valid targets & infrastructure. In Rolling Thunder, we had to stand back & wait for SAMs to become active & shoot, instead of destroying them on the pier/ warehouse. We could't attack airfields or chase fleeing MiGs. We used tactical aircraft in a strategic role & repeatedly bombed the same blown up buildings. We let them use their harbors not attack supplies until on the Ho Chi Minh trail.
The situation during RT was a bit more complex than that. Search for "Operation Spring High". A lot of the military history of the 60s is sheer ass-covering by the military.
>We let them use their harbors
Complicating matters was there were thousands of Russians and Chinese helping out the NVN. Targeting materiel in the North meant killing these advisors.
This was not entirely productive since the Russians were not going to back down to us.
@tachikaze222 ...That is how ungreatful those CHINKS are towards Americans. How they forget that the U.S. helped them fight the JAPS prior to Pearl Harbor in P-40s. But I blame the govt; for always selling the American public out to dry. Seems that they like bending over to the Soviets and Chinese & taking up the ass.
@tachikaze222 ....OK, maybe it's because I'm just too patriotic for today's mindset but since I'm older, I understand that most Americans today will not support or stand by any war. WWII was necessary and maybe Korea, but NOT Vietnam. If we must ingage in a war like Vietnam, know your enemy and be prepared to win...But the 1960's generation & the country was torn apart. I was too young for NAM but served in Desert Storm.
@xxchinookxx The US public never really goes for foreign wars - given the fact most emigrated there because of colonial wars. Hence it took them 2-3 years before they cam into WWI & WWII.
>not attack supplies until on the Ho Chi Minh trail.
We bombed the utter crap out of the NVN panhandle during RT, everything south of the 19th parallel.
btw, one funny thing I've learned in my research on the war was that at least some of the bombing halts were intended to resupply the USAF's bomb inventory (this was mentioned by George W Allen in his book "None So Blind")
@9Apilot . . . and furthermore all these PAVN troops remaining in the South made it clear to Thieu that his regime was being sold down the river.
And it was. The only thing PAVN needed was manpower, the rest they could get from China. They took a beating in 1972 but so did the GVN and people of SVN. By leaving the field of battle to PAVN, we wrote Thieu and the GVN's death sentence. PAVN owned way too much of SVN for GVN to be able to defend it.
@tachikaze222 How could earlier MEANINGFUL intervention NOT have changed this?The Johnson admin needlessly dawdled. They lacked resolve. They didn't use 1972 tactics for fear of what the PRC or the USSR might do. We finally called their bluff in 1972. But by then, congress cut the purse strings & would't fund any attempt to keep promises made to Thieu. He was indeed left out to dry. Watergate didn't help. The other error was not taking the ground war north. Can't win by fighting on home turf.
>The other error was not taking the ground war north.
Doing that ran the risk of Mao's Red Army taking *their* game further south, with major Communist bloc aid too.
In 1965 we put our foot into something we had no business fighting -- SVN was, in de Gaulle's words, a "rotten country" -- both the military geography and the Saigon regime's colossal degree of corruption.
@tachikaze222 Regardless of whether or not we got involved, once committed, war is 'all or nothing' proposition. I guess we had a higher regard for South East Asia that French. "Meaningful intervention" meant doing what is traditionally necessary to win wars. A LB II style campaign EARLY, & commiting ground troops to fight the enemy on THEIR turf. That's how wars are won. I speak in a general sense, not specifically Vietnam. I understand their trepidation to do it, but that's no excuse .
>I understand their trepidation to do it, but that's no excuse .
I agree that taking the war OUT of SVN was necessary. Problem there though is that you get the Korean Conflict example of escalation.
We really needed to isolate the battlefield, but the military problem was the 17th parallel was utterly horrible ground to for the USA to fight on -- quite possibly the worst to be found on the planet.
that was also the problem. Retrospective history shows that defending the South from the North was not worth one killed person, American or Asian.
LBJ was later ridiculed later for saying in '64 that he did not seek a wider war, but this is entirely true. We just wanted to set up and protect our client regime. The NVN were like 'WTF, GTFO!'
Their commitment to "freeing" their country was going to be greater than our commitment to stop them.
@tachikaze222 I couldn't agree with you more, my father fought in Vietnam and a part of his service was to train the ARVN. The biggest problem he had training the ARVN was that they had been heavily infiltrated by the VC for the dual purpose of obtaining military training and reducing the fighting effectiveness of the ARVN. My dad refused to go on operations with them because they could not be trusted. The SVN Government was if anything, more corrupt then the ARVN!
@trevorpom I did two tours in Viet Nam and felt basically the same. So many times you would see the 20 something Vietnamese boys riding their scooters as fast as they could to get past areas where fighting was going on. Yes really. There were a lot of US guys who spend time there and spilled their blood, only to see the local slickie boys evading ARVN service because they didn't want to miss smoking weed with their buddies. Viet Nam fell because the local boys had no belly for the fight.
@Postie218 My old man agrees, he served with the Australian 1st Armoured Regiment and lost a few friends over there for, as he puts it, fuck all. And then got home to find hippies calling him a child killer and throwing dog turds at him as he got off the plane. He was very angry for years about it, and rightly so. But as I recently told the old man, in Australia we respect our veterans on ANZAC Day every year, and they proudly march. Those throwing the dog turds however, are nowhere to be seen.
@anthonythirteen Hastings, Waterloo, Ireland, Russia, Mexico..............all losses, and all well before 1940 my friend. That's also leaving out WW2 where they were considered, before the Germans invaded, to be the best standing army in the world. The French drill instructors call out "Present arms!" and they drop their rifles and raise their arms above their heads......so it would seem.
@trevorpom Ireland? Don't know what point you are trying to make, Hastings - won by the (Norman) French. All nations lose battles, but the historian's point was that the French had the best win/loss record! I do like your joke about the French infantry - just like the one about the Italian tank with 1 forward gear and 14 reverse gears!!!
@anthonythirteen 1798 The Battle of Ballynamuck, look it up, and laugh ya arse off. It is one of the biggest military farces in history. The French were invited by Irish rebels to occupy Ireland and throw out the English............it ended badly, to say the least. Sorry about Hastings, I meant Agincourt.
@bshaun2 constraining our options was the perception that too much bombing would bring in the Chinese big-time, like 1950. If we wanted to keep the intervention under WW3 thresholds we had to moderate our actions.
Plus if we started the wholesale slaughter of civilians in the North we would have lost any moral high ground we had.
This has been flagged as spam show
Serves the murdering cowards right to be shot down. Be a mass murdering psycho as a civilian & get the death sentence. Do it in the forces & get a fucking medal. Idiots. "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." Henry - Kissinger
pobinr 2 days ago
should have done this in 67, as well as mined the harbors then...
irish89055 3 months ago
Jane Fonda was a hell of a good shot.
hammerogod 3 months ago
Rank-and-file Americans don't want war any more or less than most other people in the world; however, we will not settle for peace at any price.
SenorSpode 4 months ago
Just wondering: If I bombed a city and killed and wounded a lot of civilians, plus destroyed a lot of property, I would be a criminal.
But if I were wearing a funny-looking outfit and working for the "state," I would be a war hero?
What's the difference?
dirtythurston 4 months ago
@dirtythurston Good question. Its all killing people in the end isn't it?
RedJoe10 4 months ago
@dirtythurston Yea but bombing during a war is alot different then bombing Las Vegas.
TheRalphus666 4 months ago
@dirtythurston moron tell that to veteran so they knock out the last good tooth you have in your mouth you little punk
jers59 3 months ago
Charlton Heston?
PfhUkJiu101 4 months ago
In the idiocratic usa...
ReDDDgo 4 months ago
First Let me say that McCain was in the Navy and would not have known anything about the B-52 strike routing packages., that said the crewmember in the video is a gentlemen by the name of James Gough, I believe he was a Master Sgt at the time and he was the gunner on that particular aircraft. It was shot down over Hanoi in late December 1972, and thankfully Jim came home with all of the rest of the POW in early 1973. He was serving with the 441st Bomb Sq. Mather AFB, CA.
catfish252 4 months ago
american = shit
Vyun1969 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Vyun1969 HA HA HA! Was that supposed to make us feel bad or something?
FAAAAIIILLL!!!!!
MiHiVidz 5 months ago
@MiHiVidz Agreed. That was a major fail! Just about everyone worldwide hates America's guts.....that is until they get their asses in a bind or something bad happens to them then they mercifully beg to save them just so they can live another day to hate the America some more!
Maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen China, Vietnam, Cuba, North Korea or any other communist nation busting their butts to help any other nation out during a time of crises, that is unless it's one of their own!
ryanspeed 4 months ago
@ryanspeed I love the states and visit often, but until they shut down their bases around the planet and turn the USA into Fortress America and stay the hell out of everyone's business they will always be the target of those that they pissed off. Ron Paul has it right and he should be the next President. BTW I am an Aussie and the US is a close ally, that is we still follow them blindly into every shitfight that they start. We are slow learners down here,Vietnam, Iraq Afghanistan.
leeenfieldsmle 4 months ago
@leeenfieldsmle I can agree with that.
As an American myself I'm sick and tired of us being the world cop yet by the same token if we dont keep an interest in certain parts of the world who knows what may happen. If something happens that harms the USA then we should deal with it and not drag everyone else in to it that is unless it affects another countries interest (Australia for exaple) then the Aussies should decide whether or not to enter and NOT have the USA push them in it!
ryanspeed 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Vyun1969 you= Failer of life and is disapointing to see on the internet.
wolffromsteam 4 months ago
I cant believe people are accusing POWs of being responsible for aircraft losses over Hanoi. The country was fielding the absolute best SAM tech available at the time. Its difficult to hide a flight of B52s from radar. in fact all they could do was try and jam or spoof the SAM sites, other than that it was pretty much luck of the draw.
The bomber stream probably came up on radar while still in the south.
tbh I cant believe Im even responding to such utter bullshit.
gnark1ll1us 5 months ago
I hate charlie....
gutterfest 5 months ago
Nice footage
yah667 6 months ago
@WTFmode1
Are you sure that was the pilot? I heard that one B-52 that was shot down on Linebacker II only had the navigator make it....BTW shooting down a BUFF was also costly to the N Vietnamese because the wreckage usually hit places where people lived (farms, towns, etc.)
MrJohndoakes 6 months ago
So, there were a large number of B52's shot down after Mc Cain gave into interrogation by VC.
He told the NVC the bombing routes that were planned.
Only people who knew him in Hanoi and leaked this information talk about it. Senator Mc Cain denies he gave up the mapped routes of B52's doing carpet bombing runs.
michaelpilot1000 6 months ago
@michaelpilot1000 Think about it? McCain was shot down in 1967. The majority off B-52 shootdowns took place in late 1972 and one in 1973. One B-52 was lost to enemy action in 1967 before McCain was shot down. Sorry, but your claim is complete non-sense. McCain would have absolutely no knowledge of routes used five years later. The B-52s losses were due to the intensity of radar guided SAMs around Hanoi and acknowledged Soviet assistance with air defence personnel.
Tomteeejay 6 months ago 4
@michaelpilot1000 He wouldn't have known them, that's why they have SINGLE mission briefings before going on a run. They don't give you the next ten missions in advance, in case you are shot down. He'd know basics but then so would the NVA. Hanoi isn't that large a place. Deluded much?
trevorpom 3 months ago
lol gratz u took one down that already unloaded the bombs (else it'd go boom the zone) 99 mroe to go xD
MichaelSephiroth 7 months ago
/watch?v=_J7YxVdERvk
Damonmav 1 year ago
I wonder what became of that poor man. He looks to be in for a very long evening. Wow.
lwm762 1 year ago
To the moron militaryphotos mod "HOLLIS" who banned my account (again) for posting this video I tell him it is not "Propaganda" it is just a French Archive read the video description.
WTFmode1 1 year ago 45
@WTFmode1 what is it with those military photos guys?
I didnt even know who they were unitl I started getting complaints from them over some warfare related vids I put up on another account.
None of them had anything to do with them, they werent political (if war can ever be non-political lol) but nevertheless they strted harrassing me on youtube!
What the fuck is their problem?
gnark1ll1us 5 months ago
@WTFmode1 No, I think you're a first class moron...So obviously you weren't there... If you just want to post the video, from a film / "look what I found," sort of view, that's fine, but when you start adding detailed descriptions about what you think happened, and pas it off as fact, then you've crossed the line... If you want to preface it with, "This is what the NVA said happened..." then again, that's OK... Because you obviously do not have a clue what happened then & there...
RunningSwimmingMan 3 months ago
@RunningSwimmingMan hey asswipe, make us a video or then or shut the fuck up. you seem to just want to run your mouth off without giving us the goods. how fucking pathetic is that? ifor one enjoyed the video. and if he added a comment you object to thats just to fucking bad now isnt it.
datzfast 3 months ago
@datzfast FU... You post a video, Then you opened yourself up for Comments...
Understand ass-fuck...?
Craw back into your hole, and don't post videos if you can't take the fucking heat...
Little fuckin kids... Too many fuckin kids...
RunningSwimmingMan 2 months ago
@RunningSwimmingMan like i said its just too fucking bad.
datzfast 2 months ago
@WTFmode1
Yeah. That's Hollis. Can't believe how some racist shithead like him could made it mod.
Fakum12 1 month ago
The North Vietnamese Air Defense was the first and the only force that shot down B52, the symbol of mighty US SAC.
ES350ES350 1 year ago
"A broken clock is right twice a day" The North Vietnamese fired every SA-2 in their inventory for a handful of B-52's shot down. After the US Air Force changed their tactics on 26 Dec, they cut their losses dramatically. Hanoi was brought to it's knees. They gave us what ever we wanted. In return, we stopped bombing & cleared their harbor of mines. We should have held out for more, but all we wanted was to get our POWs back & get out & go home on our terms.
9Apilot 1 year ago
@9Apilot >They gave us what ever we wanted
no they didn't. The revised and final "peace" agreement was just what they had previously agreed to before Thieu got pissy over Kissinger selling him out. There were just 13 minor changes between the October and January agreements.
The bombing campaign was violent but also underscored to the Vietnamese people the abject lack of justice of the US position -- we were trying to win via B-52s what we couldn't win on the ground.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 The NVA had already been defeated post Easter offensive. Operation Linebacker II's objective was to cripple North Vietnam & allow us to go home. We wanted our POWs. We got our POWs. Our trump card was mining their harbors. We graciously cleared them under End Sweep. What was done in 1972 should have been done in 1966. The outcome would've been very different. Regrefully, the United States didn't insist that all remaining NVA troops be removed from the south before relenting.
9Apilot 1 year ago
@9Apilot >The NVA had already been defeated post Easter offensive
Somebody should have told them that. The USAF stopped them in 1972, but PAVN were not defeated -- you can't "defeat" a strategic offensive.
PAVN failed to take An Loc or Kontum, or hold Quang Tri, but they held all their other gains, gains like Camp Carrol and the entire DMZ area.
>Regrefully, the United States didn't insist that all remaining NVA troops be removed from the south before relenting.
That wasn't in our power.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 By 'defeated' I mean "unable to continue their campaign. They set out to defeat the south & were unable to do. It took them until 1975.. 2 1/2 years after our withdrawal before they were able to reconstitute & push south. Had the strategic "all out" campaign with the ROE of Linebacker been done in 1966 (before widespread public disapproval) It most certainly would have changed the outcome. The reason why LB II was a bit of a pyrrhic victory is that it was a day late/dollar short.
9Apilot 1 year ago
@9Apilot >They set out to defeat the south & were unable to do
They left 1972 stronger than they had entered it.
>ROE of Linebacker been done in 1966
There was no solution the USAF could provide other than targeting NVN population centers like we did in Japan. Yes, LeMay wanted to do that. But McNamara and LBJ were very mindful that escalation was a two-way street and getting into an actual shooting war with China again was not in our nation's short, medium, or long term interests.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 ROE never involved targeting civilians..(.carpet bomb), '72 ROE meant going after actual valid targets & infrastructure. In Rolling Thunder, we had to stand back & wait for SAMs to become active & shoot, instead of destroying them on the pier/ warehouse. We could't attack airfields or chase fleeing MiGs. We used tactical aircraft in a strategic role & repeatedly bombed the same blown up buildings. We let them use their harbors not attack supplies until on the Ho Chi Minh trail.
9Apilot 1 year ago
@9Apilot >we had to stand back & wait for SAMs
The situation during RT was a bit more complex than that. Search for "Operation Spring High". A lot of the military history of the 60s is sheer ass-covering by the military.
>We let them use their harbors
Complicating matters was there were thousands of Russians and Chinese helping out the NVN. Targeting materiel in the North meant killing these advisors.
This was not entirely productive since the Russians were not going to back down to us.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 ...That is how ungreatful those CHINKS are towards Americans. How they forget that the U.S. helped them fight the JAPS prior to Pearl Harbor in P-40s. But I blame the govt; for always selling the American public out to dry. Seems that they like bending over to the Soviets and Chinese & taking up the ass.
xxchinookxx 1 year ago
@xxchinookxx your understanding of history is . . . incomplete.
We supported the Nationalists against the Communists and the AVG was fighting for Chiang not Mao.
Mao didn't like us taking over N Korea so he kicked us out in 1950. Same thing would have happened in N Vietnam in the 60s.
While I admire your eager desire to take the fight to the communists, sad to say that ship has sailed.
If there had been a couple million more like you, we might have been able to start WW3.
Maybe next time.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 ....OK, maybe it's because I'm just too patriotic for today's mindset but since I'm older, I understand that most Americans today will not support or stand by any war. WWII was necessary and maybe Korea, but NOT Vietnam. If we must ingage in a war like Vietnam, know your enemy and be prepared to win...But the 1960's generation & the country was torn apart. I was too young for NAM but served in Desert Storm.
xxchinookxx 1 year ago
@xxchinookxx The US public never really goes for foreign wars - given the fact most emigrated there because of colonial wars. Hence it took them 2-3 years before they cam into WWI & WWII.
anthonythirteen 1 year ago
@9Apilot
>not attack supplies until on the Ho Chi Minh trail.
We bombed the utter crap out of the NVN panhandle during RT, everything south of the 19th parallel.
btw, one funny thing I've learned in my research on the war was that at least some of the bombing halts were intended to resupply the USAF's bomb inventory (this was mentioned by George W Allen in his book "None So Blind")
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@9Apilot . . . and furthermore all these PAVN troops remaining in the South made it clear to Thieu that his regime was being sold down the river.
And it was. The only thing PAVN needed was manpower, the rest they could get from China. They took a beating in 1972 but so did the GVN and people of SVN. By leaving the field of battle to PAVN, we wrote Thieu and the GVN's death sentence. PAVN owned way too much of SVN for GVN to be able to defend it.
Earlier escalation would not have changed this.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 How could earlier MEANINGFUL intervention NOT have changed this?The Johnson admin needlessly dawdled. They lacked resolve. They didn't use 1972 tactics for fear of what the PRC or the USSR might do. We finally called their bluff in 1972. But by then, congress cut the purse strings & would't fund any attempt to keep promises made to Thieu. He was indeed left out to dry. Watergate didn't help. The other error was not taking the ground war north. Can't win by fighting on home turf.
9Apilot 1 year ago
@9Apilot
>"earlier MEANINGFUL intervention"
define what you mean here.
>The other error was not taking the ground war north.
Doing that ran the risk of Mao's Red Army taking *their* game further south, with major Communist bloc aid too.
In 1965 we put our foot into something we had no business fighting -- SVN was, in de Gaulle's words, a "rotten country" -- both the military geography and the Saigon regime's colossal degree of corruption.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 Regardless of whether or not we got involved, once committed, war is 'all or nothing' proposition. I guess we had a higher regard for South East Asia that French. "Meaningful intervention" meant doing what is traditionally necessary to win wars. A LB II style campaign EARLY, & commiting ground troops to fight the enemy on THEIR turf. That's how wars are won. I speak in a general sense, not specifically Vietnam. I understand their trepidation to do it, but that's no excuse .
9Apilot 1 year ago
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@9Apilot
>I understand their trepidation to do it, but that's no excuse .
I agree that taking the war OUT of SVN was necessary. Problem there though is that you get the Korean Conflict example of escalation.
We really needed to isolate the battlefield, but the military problem was the 17th parallel was utterly horrible ground to for the USA to fight on -- quite possibly the worst to be found on the planet.
Search for "Going to Tchepone: oplan el paso"
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@9Apilot >once committed, war is 'all or nothing'
that was also the problem. Retrospective history shows that defending the South from the North was not worth one killed person, American or Asian.
LBJ was later ridiculed later for saying in '64 that he did not seek a wider war, but this is entirely true. We just wanted to set up and protect our client regime. The NVN were like 'WTF, GTFO!'
Their commitment to "freeing" their country was going to be greater than our commitment to stop them.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
@tachikaze222 I couldn't agree with you more, my father fought in Vietnam and a part of his service was to train the ARVN. The biggest problem he had training the ARVN was that they had been heavily infiltrated by the VC for the dual purpose of obtaining military training and reducing the fighting effectiveness of the ARVN. My dad refused to go on operations with them because they could not be trusted. The SVN Government was if anything, more corrupt then the ARVN!
trevorpom 1 year ago
@trevorpom I did two tours in Viet Nam and felt basically the same. So many times you would see the 20 something Vietnamese boys riding their scooters as fast as they could to get past areas where fighting was going on. Yes really. There were a lot of US guys who spend time there and spilled their blood, only to see the local slickie boys evading ARVN service because they didn't want to miss smoking weed with their buddies. Viet Nam fell because the local boys had no belly for the fight.
Postie218 1 year ago
@Postie218 My old man agrees, he served with the Australian 1st Armoured Regiment and lost a few friends over there for, as he puts it, fuck all. And then got home to find hippies calling him a child killer and throwing dog turds at him as he got off the plane. He was very angry for years about it, and rightly so. But as I recently told the old man, in Australia we respect our veterans on ANZAC Day every year, and they proudly march. Those throwing the dog turds however, are nowhere to be seen.
trevorpom 1 year ago
look at the expression on the yankee bastard, he is pissing in his pants
the yankees got a lesson in vietnam
hayouni1968 1 year ago
@hayouni1968 - as i read in a book, i saw them called "yankee air pirates"
decimated550 1 year ago
@hayouni1968 So did the French..........but hey, has France ever won a war?
trevorpom 1 year ago
@trevorpom actually, a British historian calaculated that up to 1940, the French had the best win/loss record. It's all gone wrong since 1940...
anthonythirteen 1 year ago
@anthonythirteen Hastings, Waterloo, Ireland, Russia, Mexico..............all losses, and all well before 1940 my friend. That's also leaving out WW2 where they were considered, before the Germans invaded, to be the best standing army in the world. The French drill instructors call out "Present arms!" and they drop their rifles and raise their arms above their heads......so it would seem.
trevorpom 1 year ago
@trevorpom Ireland? Don't know what point you are trying to make, Hastings - won by the (Norman) French. All nations lose battles, but the historian's point was that the French had the best win/loss record! I do like your joke about the French infantry - just like the one about the Italian tank with 1 forward gear and 14 reverse gears!!!
anthonythirteen 1 year ago
@anthonythirteen 1798 The Battle of Ballynamuck, look it up, and laugh ya arse off. It is one of the biggest military farces in history. The French were invited by Irish rebels to occupy Ireland and throw out the English............it ended badly, to say the least. Sorry about Hastings, I meant Agincourt.
trevorpom 1 year ago
@trevorpom yes at the end of the 17th century under Louis 14th, the palatinean war. :)
weddinganejakopp 3 months ago
what a bunch of jerks
billysacramento 1 year ago
well done Vietnam !
saranewyork 1 year ago
well come to B52 victory museum in Vietnam if you want to see B52 wreck.
ankychan 1 year ago
well done!
jirka76 1 year ago
A fake, he is not a pilot, but a captured soldat!
zimmermann10 1 year ago
That is a fake, no real!
zimmermann10 1 year ago
Heroes destroying coward yank trash...........groovy
filtro6 1 year ago
@filtro6
Your heroes should have been fed a nuke back in 68
bshaun2 1 year ago
@bshaun2 constraining our options was the perception that too much bombing would bring in the Chinese big-time, like 1950. If we wanted to keep the intervention under WW3 thresholds we had to moderate our actions.
Plus if we started the wholesale slaughter of civilians in the North we would have lost any moral high ground we had.
tachikaze222 1 year ago
slant eyed fucks!
IIZJAZON 1 year ago
@IIZJAZON I sense some butthurt in your comment.
Brooklyn83 1 year ago 6
LMAO,look at the pilot's face.Thats what you get! LOL
kdolo100 1 year ago
@kdolo100 In the video they captured just one alive B-52 get a crew from six man I think
anyone know how working ejection system in B-52 ?
TheSuperN00b 1 year ago
@TheSuperN00b If you talking about the number of ejection systems in a B-52,i would just google it,take care.
kdolo100 1 year ago
@kdolo100 lol kk
TheSuperN00b 1 year ago
Comment removed
kdolo100 1 year ago
Thats beautiful
kosiak10851 2 years ago
Great footage comrade.
VNMIG 2 years ago