It's obvious Tuomas was/is in love with Tarja. That would obviously put a bias against Marcelo.
HOWEVER, everything else added up, and he DID think properly and objectively about it. The other members wouldn't have agreed otherwise. Were they all in love with Tarja? I really appreciate the points in this letter and it makes perfect sense. I think Tarja would go back and change it if she could though, but she already started that shit and so paid for it. Sad indeed.
If Tuomas had problems with Tarja, he should by all means end it, even much earlier than he did.
But I realy am dissapointed when I see a band that I respect and favor behave so shamelessly. Personal matters, are just that, personal. He could write publicly about the cooperation ending if he wanted so. All the other complains about behavior and husband stories,should be in private. All I see is a no reason humiliation of Tarja,who was mature enough not to sue him. So unprofessional of him.Pitty
@MichaelDelTheo You'd be surprised what people do when they are angry enough. And, this letter coupled with the Nightwish book, pretty much says that ALL the bandmembers, not just Tuomas, were really, really pissed off with Tarja. Marco almost quit, he was so sick of it. Jukka was tired of dealing with show cancellations, and complaints about money (he deals with most of the band's finances). Tuomas was tired of her acting like she didn't need Nightwish anymore.
@MichaelDelTheo It was only Emppu who had any hesitation about kicking her out. He just wants everyone to get along, so he was upset about kicking her out like that, but I think the other three were just so angry that they couldn't see any other way. They themselves admit it was brutal of them. You'd be shocked at what people can do with anger that runs that deep, for as long as it did (since Wishmaster). Frankly they could've made it an even bigger deal if they wanted to.
@MichaelDelTheo Oh, and sorry for spamming you with information (just trying to clear up some things for people), but actually, they DID sue them. Several times. Marcelo sued the publishers of the Nightwish book, but he lost because the court decided that, based on the evidence, there was reason enough for the members of Nightwish, their management, etc, to believe what was written (Marcelo had bad business practices, was bad with money, held NW back, etc).
I believe there is more than one side to this story. Perhaps Tarja really did say that she didn't need NW anymore, and perhaps she really did threaten to leave abruptly. But why? I think the phrases "...separately from us with your husband", "Somehow Marcelo has changed you..." and "...listen to your heart instead of Marcelo" are more significant than most think. I do not doubt that there were real structural problems, but I believe there was more to it than that.
Haha.. Tarja thinking they don't respect or listen to her.. -> "Believe us, we have always had the uppermost respect towards you"
Yeah, obviously, since you - instead of listening to her - gave her a LETTER while being as far as possible to say all that. Now THAT'S RESPECT AND LISTENING RIGHT THERE (sarcasm)
Bunch of pussies... I mean sure, they had problems but with 9 years of friendship, you'd think they could fucking TALK to her, not give her a letter, release it publicly and humiliate her
@sarkasmi83 The Finnish culture is very different to ours. Finns don't talk about their problems, it's a cultural thing. So I'd guess Tarja was probably just as bad at talking about what was bugging her, too. Anette has even said they have issues talking to her, years later. Anette seems to be a lot more straightforward than any of them, though, and it seems like she beats it out of them. LOL.
In a fast-paced world like theirs, things can go beyond repair before you even know there's a problem. Tuomas and Nightwish probably did the right thing by letting Tarja go when they did, for whatever reason. We will always have the music that we love from that band. It's all on CD's. And now we have Nightwish with Anette. It is a beautiful world!
To cancel sold-out show becouse of movies... I'm so sad if it's true. But some parts of letter seems to be written for a fool. I have a big doubt that Tarja is such fool. And of course, Tuomas and the others should talk all the problems about. Chicken-hearted guys.
@Arrrrrchy You think Tarja isn't a fool? How do you know this, I mean, seriously? Do you know her in real life? You're disregarding the fact Tuomas and Tarja were good FRIENDS before she supposedly turned into a diva. By the way, anyone can go on stage and don't act like a fool, offstage however, is an entirely different story.
This letter only scratches the surface on problems with Tarja and Marcelo. Anyone ever heard of the book called "Nightwish"? I do not know if it is sold also in English but in Finnish language at least. It tells the Nightwish story from beginning to the firing of Tarja from the band and everything is told there not just by Tuomas but the whole band, managers, business partners etc. After reading the whole story from there I would never ever think about defending Tarja / Marcelo...
@dieseldog00 You're in luck! It is out in English. You can buy it from the NW Shop, and probably Amazon. I think they might have it in e-book as well. I've read it, it is a really good read if you're a big NW fan. It explains pretty well, near the end, why they chose to can Tarja (as a band, not just Tuomas...you see that they were all pretty pissed, and why). Unfortunately, Tarja and Marcelo declined to add their comments, but it's still a good read.
@Tooteika The book is written from the Nightwish perspective right? Of course it would paint Tarja and Marcelo as the villains. And well they might be, but their story doesn't get told, so only one side comes out.
Ok, did any of you hating on Toumas actually read this? I mean HELLOOOO? This letter spells it all out she no longer believed in all ths band encompased! As much as I loved Tarja, she was no longer the right choice for the band. Anette has done a wonderful job so far keeping the spirit of the band alive. Its the music that matters, and bless whoever makes it worth listening to <3
While I personally think that it was a little bit over the top to make the letter public, it shows Tarja was in the wrong and despite how much I loved her then as I do now, I can't defend someone if they're in the wrong. With an attitude like hers, her dismissal should be considered a blessing.
I agree with "softan". I think that Toumas fell in love with Tarja and coulnt stand knowing she was with someone else while she was in a band with him. Than again am not so sure because if she really did want more monney,and canceled shows just to go watch movies with "marcelo" than that seems like a valid excuse to kick her out. :/
If they were so displeased with Tarja and her husband then WHY didn't they just talk things out? You can't be mad at someone without them knowing. This story has two sides so I don't think that people should hate on any of the band members, including Tarja. We will never know what REALLY happened. Deal with it and stop hating.
i can understand the cultural thing argentinean people tend to be so proud and make things the way they think is right so maybe he had some influence in tarja's
I feel so sorry for her! And for the rest of the band too. This is the least pleasant way to break up a friendship. We can never know what really happend between them what caused this, the letter explains a lot, but that's only half of the story, thus we cannot judge who is right. Only one thing is sure; if this would happen to me, I would go completely depressed, and cry my eyes out. Tarja is lucky to have her husbant plus so many fans left to love her.
And honestly, if that's how you feel about Tuomas and Nightwish as a whole, then you should forget about them and just listen to Tarja's solo music because they deserve more respect than that; they deserve loyal fans who won't slander them and paint them as petty teenagers.
Why are people saying that Tuomas did this out of jealousy?He was sticking up for you as the fan because clearly she only cared for herself and her career.Cancelling sold out shows and not even bothering to contact the band herself, never wanting to practice with them, moving far away and not speaking to them for a year and refusing to tour in countries with small venues speaks mountains about her attitude, not his.I can see why he didn't want her singing the music that he so passionately wrote.
all that letter does is provide the inner thoughts of a jealous man who couldn't have the girl he was so clearly in love with,he can dress it up however he wants but the fact is he wanted tarja but her heart belongs to marcelo,and that was killing him.
Of course, there are always two sides to everything. But the guys made a solid case. Tarja,in her press conference after being fired, said she was leaving after the next album and tour and was crying because they split with her before any of that could happen. Seems like they didnt want to have the front woman making all their decisions if she was just gonna leave anyway. It wasnt her band to make those demands, it's Tuomas' if its anyones. Its sad cuz Tarja is so good for Nightwish.
i think this letter has been missunderstood for to long... people think, as fans Tarja was everything but for the sake of a future nightwish for the chance to be happy in what they do. Tarja needed to go as they watched a good friend stumble into a person of which wasn't a good tern out , i think if your a fan of nightwish listen to not just Tarja but the whole band and the meaning of them, think beond the letter to see why it had to happen this way , much love :D
If understand the letter in the right way the members of the band thought Tarja became to commercial and also didn't want to spend enough time with Nightwish. Ok: but I really don't understand the issue about the cultural differences...
What a nice letter and explains a lot. Annette and Tarja are both good singers in different ways and I think it is good for NIghtwish to move away from Tarja and change to a different type of singer as it will allow them to explore new avenues musically
Before everything that you can read here, there are still people defending Tarja? Really? I feel sorry for you, I really do. Saying that doesn't wannna go on with NW and then go cry in front of the media? LOL So fake!
And you people saying that she was the soul of NW? WHAT THE FUCK? She just sing!! Nothing more! The lyrics, the music... They all came from Tuomas' heart, you know that right? Her solo career is nothing comparing to NW, even the "new" NW.
Sometimes things just need to be left alone. I'm glad i seen this, and my views have been greatly focused now. I guess we can safely say that both sides were just going under way too much stress and the whole thing just unraveled. If it didn't happen then it would have happen later no doubt. I think it's better for NW to still be around, likewise with Tarja.
So whatever drama there was between the band i have decided to just leave it int he past and move on with life.
Seems to me she has a great relationship with her husband and her husband was pushing her to something that was good for her. That's what husbands do; look out for their wive's best interests.
She wasn't happy in the band b/c things were obviously not going well so she looked elsewhere which happens but she felt bad in leaving as she explained in her interview. So the band forced her to leave earlier than expected. Even though Nightwish is not the same without Tarja a band can't work like that.
Before splitting NW was badly divided into two camps, Tarja and Marcelo vs. the four NW guys and their two managers. The camps disagreed in almost everything. They no longer shared the same goal.The camp members didn´t speak to each other. When it was absolutely necessary they sent emails, and Marcelo handled Tarja´s email correspondence. When people cannot communicate with each other we cannot blame just one party. The split was for the best of both parties.
greedy?? selfish?? wtf?! underestimating the fans?! she ALWAYS spend time with her fans!! they respect her as a friend?? friends don't announce their decisions with open letters where they describe their "friend" as a "greedy awful person who cares only about the moneys and nothing more". She doesn't deserve that kind of "friends". Too bad they're not together anymore but Tarja's happier now (and the other guys too) and that's what matters for me...:/
The only thing I think they were wrong about was disseminating this letter to the public the way they did. They should have just given Tarja the letter in private, announced they were looking for a new lead singer, and let Tarja be the one to decide if it should be in the public forum.
Journalist Ollila, the author of NW biography, was going to publish his book anyway. It appeared 6 mo later and also contained very detailed data about the dismissal
NW guys expected Marcelo and Tarja to give their own explanations in public
The letter tried to explain things to fans (eg NW guys wanted to say that cancelling the US tour was not their fault), record companies and concert promoters (NW guys didn´t want to overcharge gigs)
From what this sounds like the band didn't have the balls to sit down and talk to her about these "problems". I think they were afraid that she, Tarja, would become more famous than they, Nightwish, would ever have thought of. Nothing against the group, the "open letter" was an act of cowards. Just an opinion I am stating here.
@AlabamaVid2 I would agree with you.Long unaddressed feelings become issues,and then pure anger.Tarja in her interview in Finland did express that she was ignorant to the fact of how the band members thought of her.That alone shows how little they communicated!It is a shame on one hand because they were the only band that gave a feeling of ONENESS in their music!!!That is not matched so far by any other I came across.
@AlabamaVid2 On the other hand Tarja has many aspects of herself,and that,I feel,she would only be able to fully express in a "solo" carrier.And she has taken herself to another level or path of self discovery!And the way things play out make it happen intentionally or unintentionally!I think we all have to move on to other grounds in order to fully live and explore,and I feel she has done just that!
It's obvious they are pussys as well. Seeing as they had known eachother for 9 years and all the can muster up is a letter they give her and tell her to open it the next day. Are they really so afraid of confrontation. If they stood by there words there would be know reason not to tell her in person. Really lame imo to give her a letter
@softan thats kind of an immature interpretation of it. It was a band decision and Tuomas does not strike me as the sort of person who would mess up his band because he had an eye for Tarja. There were a number of valid reasons given (wanting more money, cancelling shows, refusing to rehearse, losing all contact with the band etc) it sounds like Tuomas had a good reason to fire her. Of course she will always be remembered as an incredible vocalist and the first female vocalist in Nightwish.
@softan That is a pretty crude accusation, i'm pretty damn sure there was A LOT more to it than that. That sounds like something a child would say, no offence.
If this is what *truely (*spelled) happened, then I really understand why the boys couldn't take it anymore.. it's never good to be greedy, Tarja.. hope you taught your lesson..
Thank you for postig... Ive bee wondering what all was said. But my goodess does he blame her a lot... Not once does he step back and acknowledge that he probably made some mistakes as well... So sad... I am sure that she never really intended for them to feel that way, and I am sure that he never intended her to take it as badly as she did... Just sad is what it is :(
Seems to me he blames Marcelo more then anything, He's convinced that Marcelo made her this way, seems more like jealousy of Marcelo doesn't it? :/
Tuomas' personality is what drove him to this conclusion of the Tarja era. Sad it is in fact, Tarja is still missed to this day, but that does not mean we should hate on Anette. When she is doing an incredible job keeping a band like this going strong.
@4MadnEsSx I don't miss Tarja at all, actually. It is Nightwish that I miss. It is still the same Tarja Turunen who sings in My Winter Storm and What Lies Beneath as the one that sang Once and whatnot. It so feels like when Tarja left, she took the heart and soul of Nightwish with her, and that while she was fired, that heart and soul (I think Tarja calls Her Ciaran) left willingly. I only discovered Nightwish and Tarja in 2009 August, and it has been an interesting journey for me.
@4MadnEsSx Marcelo torrmented Tuomas though always mocking him about the fact that he was married to Tarja and Tuomas had lost his chance with Tarja forever
@4MadnEsSx How can you say all of this when you don't know the whole story? In fact, nobody does except the band, Tarja, and Marcelo. Whether any of them have told the truth is something we can't say because we simply do not know. Also, in case you didn't notice, the letter is signed not just by Tuomas, but by Jukka, Emppu, and Marco. If you read the other bandmates' comments, Tuomas wasn't the only one who was DONE with Tarja. Marco and Jukka were especially fed up with her, too.
Tarja will rejoin Nightwish in 2013-14 at the latest. After the next tour, Annette will decide that she needs to spend more time with her two children, which will be around elementary school age by then. This will get talk going..things stirring, and when its announced that tarja will rejoin the band it's going to be one grand celebration! I only hope they come to America.
This is the biggest cowardice ever, and extremely disrespectful to women. Anyone with half a brain will understand these are pathetic lies and excuses to make himself the good guy and Tarja the bad guy. True mark of a coward, a big baby who cannot own up to his mistakes and flaws, needs to blame everyone else for his problems and his lack of social skills. Tuomas deserves no respect or kindness.
@astrolifter I agree he is one of the greatest musicians, I still love his songs. My opinion is regarding his personality based on the book they released. He has repeated the same behavior over and over again, low self-esteem, cowardice and immaturity. That's just the way he is.
yeah well...and now Annette is making babies and doing solos with other singers.. life sort of continues on a personal plane for everyone at some point...and watching the last tour dvd ending in the concert in Helsinki, the dudes do seem rather childish in their behavior and attitude toward Tarjas personal life, making remarks like her blowing Marcelo off and stuff..not very adult nor respectful toward someones marriage..Still, they were probably all to blame on some level.
Well, reguardless of things happened and who did what or whatever. Kicking someone out of a band through a letter is pretty childish. To Nightwish, "How old are we people?" come on.
i fully agree with tomas.i just think that nightwish made a terrible choice of new vocalist.i think that everyone is replaceable ,evn tarja who i greatly admire,but annete is the wosrts replacement
As much as I love Tarja and her era of Nightwish, I full heartedly agree with Tuomas and the guys with their decision. Maybe they could have gone about it a better way, but whats done is done.
Anette is awesome, lovely, funny and cute and everything AND MORE than Nightwish needs.
Nightwish is more than just music. and it always will be, with or without Tarja.
im sure they know how to spell venue and also if this is adressed to Tarja why does it talk to her as if its writen to someone else 2:23 in interviews ive mentions if Tarja leaves, that would be the end of the band, should'nt it be if YOU leave it would be the end of the band
Although im just Hair Splitting.
and also to be honest i think they probally would of done it in person and from how nightwish 'apparently' portray Tarja in this letter it seems that she wanted to leave anyway.
First of all, I love Anette, but I consider the 1997-2005 Nightwish as a magical and perfect band, and reading this letter it's so painful but fair; Long live to Nightwish (1997-present) and Tarja.
how can i believe this in any way ? personally i dont ... many stories have been told this may just be another one... and according to what @bestman3007 said i think he's right ... friends dont just write open letters !
@ohmkizawa yeah but they had a really strong relationship for many years of cooperation and i still don't believe he would send an open letter saying all these !
I'd write and say the same thing to my second ex-friend, why I kicked him out of my life, because I used to see him as a true friend and funny character to now an infantile, greedy pig head.
well. first of all, how do we know this isn't fake? Second of all. This letter make Tarja look SO bad, and soryy, but i simply wont and can't believe that.
@SogLZzzz Not fake :( But as I know Tarja nothing is true:) IMHO million bands can write similar letters to her. One meeting was enough for me to see her real face. She is the kindness person I have ever met and it will not be different ever. She is smart, wise, nice and very very elegant. Tarja will always be in my heart for what she is. No one will dictate me what to think of a person till I find out myself. NW rise their popularity by that letter Tuomas already regret. :)
tuomas is right.. you cant sacrifice the band because of one person, no matter what.. the fact is they all agreed that she must be kicked out of the band.. but still there are some people saying "tuomas kicked her out of the band, he is idiot, nightwish isnt nightwish anymore" .. stop being hypocrit.. they all agreed to fire her.. its 4 on 1 and you are still ignorant.. come on people..
i still feel her husband was actually behind all these sucksss......i believed Tarja was a good fren, naive, and sweet until she met her greedy , selfish husband ....but she loved her husband so much that she could not do anything but to follow that stupid Marcelo instructions in every single aspects of her life
Tarja is a great singer but now nightwish is better than ever. It's no matter how big star you are, you have to respect your fans. They will keep you alive.
@zephranna01 Well it sounds like she was ripping lots of people off! Cancelling sold out shows to go to the movies with your friends? Way to respect your fans.
But then there is the fact that Tuomas is an avowed racist. While Tarja was embracing other cultures on their tours, Tuomas was shunning them. Tarja liked Asian stuff, so much so she wore her fave Asian outfit in the Nemo video, and sometimes in concert. Tuomas didn't like that, now did he? Nor did he like the fact she married a latino in Marcelo. I don't have a problem with him. My own boyfriend, and life hero, Che Guevarra is also from Argentina. So it seems Tuomas has a problem with browns.
@PalemoonSun . You don't even know Tuomas personally, how can you say he is not open minded towards other cultures? He might be asshole but surely he looks clever. I don't think Tuomas gave a shit if Tarja married a latino , a scandinavian, a chinese, whoever. Haha perhaps Tuomas simply had a problem with the fact Tarja married someone else.
@PalemoonSun Spare me the CheGuevara myth please and the comunism -revolution ideas, especially coming from an american girl. Thanks god, you don't even have a remote idea of what comunism has been ,living in your stars and stripes country. ;)
@Moonsorrow84 What Che Guevara myth? And you're right, nobody who has been alive on the planet in the past couple hundred years has known anything about communism. I certainly don't. Maybe we should try it sometime. If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!
THE REAL TRUE WE NEVER KNOW CUZ WE DONT LIVE WITH THEM.
WE ARENT NOT FANS ANYMORE, WE ARE LIKE CHAINS IN HIS CAREERS.
THE FANS ARE THE HELL ! TUOMAS IS NOT A GOD, TARJA IS NO A QUEEN THEY ARE HUMANS LET THEM BE FREE
THIS BAND GIVES US TO MUCH AND THEY GOT TIRED ALL WE CAN DO IS GIVE THE SAME LOVE.
NO MORE HATE, SOME DAY NIGHTWISH AND TARJA WILL BE TOGETHER AGAIN CUZ THE LIVE IS A CIRCLE YOY WILL SEE NIGHTWISH AND TARJA NEED THIS SPACE OF THIS PRESSURE OF THE FAME
THE REAL TRUE WE NEVER KNOW CUZ WE DONT LIVE WITH THEM.
WE ARENT NOT FANS ANYMORE, WE ARE LIKE CHAINS IN HIS CAREERS.
THE FANS ARE THE HELL ! TUOMAS IS NOT A GOD, TARJA IS NO A QUEEN THEY ARE HUMANS LET THEM BE FREE
THIS BAND GIVES US TO MUCH AND THEY GOT TIRED ALL WE CAN DO IS GIVE THE SAME LOVE.
NO MORE HATE, SOME DAY NIGHTWISH AND TARJA WILL BE TOGETHER AGAIN CUZ THE LIVE IS A CIRCLE YOY WILL SEE NIGHTWISH AND TARJA NEED THIS SPACE OF THIS PRESSURE OF THE FAME
Ummm, Tuomas isn't a diva, or selfish, or even good. At best, he's an average synth operater and occasionally writes something worth reading. Flock of Seagulls had a much better synth operator than Nightwish. And they were a much better band, musically speaking.
Call Tuomas what he is. An idiot. Please!! He deserves it. Maybe he'll finally kill off the band so that we don't have to be tortured anymore! Everyone knows that Epica is the best band on the planet, with the best singer on the planet.
@PalemoonSun Epica is an overrated boring band, compared with old Nightwish they simply sucks. True valid female fronted bands were Third And The Mortal, The Gathering, old Theater of Tragedy. Now it's all pompous shit and boring sound, female metal is dead . Epica are just ridiculous. Go to listen to some decent gothic metal like Paradise Lost kid. The idiot is actually you if you think Epica is the best band on the planet ahah
@Moonsorrow84 Why did you say "old Nightwish" for? And what's wrong with Epica? I like many of the bands in the genre, from Xandria to Visions of Atlantis to Within Temptation. And since when is symphonic metal labeled as gothic metal? If I wanted to listen to a great gothic band, I'd crank up some Tea Party or Sisters of Mercy.
@PalemoonSun Because I think "old" Nightwish were making better music than DPP era. There is nothing wrong with Epica, just calling them "the best band of the genre" seems too much for me considering how unoriginal they are. Symphonic metal took many elements from classic gothic metal, and all wannabe goth girls listen to these bands (Epica, NW) now. Sisters of Mercy are not exactly a metal band, they are a gothic rock band. I'm talking about an other kind of "gothic".
@Moonsorrow84 I see where it all boils down to opinion. Nothing more. "Good" is merely relative to someone's opinion. Such as whether Tarja or Anette is the better sing.
You know, Tuomas could have easily ended that debate. He could have hired Vibeke when he had the perfect chance to do so. I'd like to hear her side on why Tuomas wouldn't go with her. My OPINION, is that she would not subject herself to the same old manipulation that Tarja, and now Anette, have been going through.
@Moonsorrow84 Vibeke retired to teach? Funny, I heard the same thing about the Visions of Atlantis singer Nicole, but she keeps popping up in Operas from time to time. I heard the same thing about Floor Jansen, all the while she was a member of After Forever for 12 straight years, and is now a member of ReVamp, and guess what? She's still a Professor of Music and continues to teach it. You know, there are some people that can actually chew gum and walk. Vibeke might be offended by your comment.
@PalemoonSun No seriously, I think that she really quit for her personal reasons because she wanted to teach or something similar. She wasn't fired. And in fact she isn't doing anything in music business now. Check her official statement. Anyway I think NW didn't contact any singers (perhaps a couple of famous names) , singers sent demos and they picked them up. Why they should have picked a singer singing in an other famous band, they already have their bands.
@Moonsorrow84 I think you summed it up there. Why did Nightwish bother to hire Tarja as their singer, knowing that she was not the best fit for them as they claimed in the letter.
@PalemoonSun Lol Nightwish didn't "hire" Tarja. When Tuomas had the idea to found a band on his own he already knew Tarja (they knew since they were 13) and he thought of asking her. They didn't even look for an other singer. And he never said she wasn't the best fit, actually he has always said she was perfect for NW. music was never the problem between them
@Moonsorrow84 So it was no problem when Tarja was a kid, but when she grew up into a woman and was able to think and speak for herself, that's when it became a problem?
@PalemoonSun No, problems for the band started when Marcelo kept interfeering too much with their decisions about gigs. Obviously it's much more complex and most of the faults, in my opinion, laid in Nightwish bad comunication and management, but it would be too long to explain. Add to this scenario personal problems between Tarja and Tuomas.
@Moonsorrow84 That sounds like a more neutral answer, lol. But I'm still mad with Tuomas. You are right to point out the personal problems. I think it's just sad that he had to drag his differences with Tarja into the public and then try to manipulate the fans to think it was all Tarja's fault. I'm sure she's not totally innocent either. But Tuomas acts like he's never done anything wrong. If you listen to Dead Boy's Poem, he tells you that he will let you down, betray you. It's the way he is.
@PalemoonSun I'm quite neutral about the whole mess with NW. Anyway, I agree about Tuomas lyrics. In his lyrics he actually self pity a lot..saying all the time in his lyrics which kind of bad person he is. Take The Poet and The Pendulum, it's all about disliking himself. Pretty emo, huh? ahah
@Moonsorrow84 And in case you don't know what manipulation I'm referring to, it's the very manipulation that drove both Tarja and Anette to seek out their own personal managers. Funny, that was something listed in the video above, as to why Tuomas dumped Tarja.
But there's more. What does Tuomas mean by "cultural differences" in the letter? Last time I checked, both Tarja and Tuomas are from the same small city in Finland. There is no cultural difference between them.
@PalemoonSun The "cultural differences" thing was related to Marcelo not to Tarja. And his comment is not racist in my opinion. It was maybe inappropriate and too personal but not racist. He just meant that Marcelo, coming from an other country and culture, had an other way of thinking.
And for all of the people who love using the diva word, not a single one of them knows what the hell diva actually means. It's a reference to a successful female singer. What's wrong with that? In that definition, which is actually in the dictionary, then Anette is a diva as she's been a pretty successful female singer in her own right. Is she not?
@musikmood I agree, I only wish Tuomas had left the fans out of his jealous rage over Tarja. I don't care to hear his childish behavior. He needs to keep his ass in the studio where it belongs and his nose out everybody's business.
this open letter is just one sound of the bell and not the main reason, anyway Tarja does well with her own band and Nightwish are not really hitting the fans out of the shoes with the new songs, neither with the "old" songs performed by Anette, but hey thats just my opinion as fan from the first CD on... enjoy your life : )
Now the new band. I am a HUGE Tarja fan, but I said I would give the new vocalist the chance everyone deserves. After listening to the new material released by the band no it is not the same by any regards. I have always listed the previous compositions as an angelically dark band. Now its just another dark band. The new vocalist is good don't let it be misconstrued, the girl is extremely talented. Her voice just doesn't ring angelic to me. Just my opinions. I mean no offense. ---Landfear
@ThompsonInternation that is the point though (at least the way i see it) angelic-angel- heaven- dead or sorrow
while anette got a more lively vocals... i hope you understand what i mean, most of tarjas songs seem... well... sad... (end of all hope...two for tragedy) while anettes seem more hopeful (Eva, escapist)
i hope you understand, and i enjoyed reading your posts
@ThompsonInternation That was a respectful comment, better than all the abuse I see on her videos. I heard Anette's songs first so became a fan of her and now am opening my eyes to some of Tarja's stuff. Wow! I think her voice is incredible, i love the music (esp this, phantom of the opera, angel) and I've seen vids of her stunning audiences live, although I admit I had to let her voice grow on me. I think Annette's voice however, is suited to more melodic songs like bye bye beautiful/ amaranth.
So I am a fan of both the girls, Anette forthe rockier ones, and Tarja for the beautiful melodies such as this one. However from this video alone, I don't think she sounds like a singer I would respect (that is, for anything other than voice) I have a solo single of hers in my related vids that looks interesting, tempted to click on it but don't see the point as I can see the reasons for leaving in the first place were selfish and unkind n don't want to boost
you know this whole thing is kind of messed up. irregardless of the reasons behind the break I think it was more a break down in between people. B/c to be honest best friends should just want each other to be happy. Its clear both sides were unhappy and the separation could have been handled better. They had a beautiful thing going, but it came to an end. Why not celebrate what it was and then move on. now both sides are hurt to where repair is not possible. Truly sad.
CONT: ... and that will be forever curved in metal history not as a footnote but as significant fact. Now it is Annette's turn and I am immensley enjoying her vocal style. In my brain, there is room for Tarja, Annette, Nightwish, Within Temptation, Leaves' Eyes and what have you. My only wish is for all you European metal female fronted bands is to stop copying Amy Lee/Evanecsence because it really sucks. You have a winning formula so don't screw it up.
A teachable moment for both sides. Nightwish had very good and legitimate reasons. Bottomline: they just weren't getting along fine anymore and knew that Tarja would be leaving the band after the release of a new album. Tarja, on the other hand, had her own priorities, her own goals st up for the near future. Bottomline: the band shoul've spken with her personally first before making it public like they did. But what is done is done. Tarja made beautiful music with the band...
I hate this letter, everyone see that Tuomas loves Tarja and have Jealous of her husband,is not the right way to kicked someone in the Band. I trust me I´ve seen Atitudes like this before.
Well, I wish they would have talked about this problem isntead of through an open letter. Then the problem could have been solved (thats what I have established after looking at both sides of the argument).
And I wish they would have stopped blamng it all on her husband.
When Tarja made her solo album,she showed that she can go on her own,but Nightwish with Anette is just wrong,I mean she has a good voice but it is not the real Nightwish... :(
Guys you need to know that she got fired because the band felt that she was being greedy, and that she did not have Nightwish as a priority anymore. Disagreements between the band and her husband also played a factor in her dismissal.
"The mental satisfaction should always be more important than money! Nightwish is a band, it's an emotion." Well, this statement it's like a BIG LOL having in mind what they made of Nightwish!!! It's more comercial then ever, and why? Because they knew that Tarja leaving the band would go down, so they had to go for a diferent aproach in order to reach to a diferent quind of fans because the old ones would, most of them, be gone. The band is about money? Oh no, surelly not... LOL... whatever.
Tuomas doesn't seem to understand that he feeds himself with sadness. He can't see it in a way that he knows that he creates all the sadness and soorrow around him, putting himself and others around him to this kind of situations. He's just too deep into it. It's really easy to see that just from listening and knowing Nightwish's songs. Amazing band, though
in my opinion, and others, i believe that Toumas loves Tarja... and is jealous of Marcelo... i mean... seriously, to watch videos of Tarja and Toumas together, it's like they're the married couple... but.... whatever...
well I don't hate anette but for me it's definetly not the Nightwish anymore I loved so much...and I'm even not sure what I should believe - Tarja's version or the band's version...I don't know so I just accept their decision and listen to the old songs and Tarja's new album. But it was very interesting to read the letter and see what the band's opinion is like...thanks for uploading this.
@LadyMithrain Agreed! The diferences in Tarja since she left NW are too big not to be noticed. Her performance on stage, for na instance, now she's much more "free", she has fun all the time, interacts with fans and stuff... when in Nightwish she sort of restrained herself and she didn't looked exactly happy... It's all too contradictory, I honnestly think that Tuomas was the problem, not Tarja. In my opinion, he atacked her and Marcelo in order to reach her somehow, even if in a bad way.
Pienso que pudo solucionarse o terminar en los mejores terminos y no con la carta abierta, Nighwish como Tarja son excelentes y los dos se complementan muy bien, éxitos para los dos aunque estén separados!!
anette is a very telented singer...she's def no tarja but I like her style. If anything needs replacing is the guitarist...man they could do so much better. He plays fine but he doesn't stand out or have a wow factor. Imagine someone like george lynch or zakk with em...
I don't really think it was right of him to make this an open letter.
DarkAlone8 1 week ago
It's obvious Tuomas was/is in love with Tarja. That would obviously put a bias against Marcelo.
HOWEVER, everything else added up, and he DID think properly and objectively about it. The other members wouldn't have agreed otherwise. Were they all in love with Tarja? I really appreciate the points in this letter and it makes perfect sense. I think Tarja would go back and change it if she could though, but she already started that shit and so paid for it. Sad indeed.
caitlinispurecool 2 weeks ago
IT'S MARCELO'S FOLT
nightwish2507 2 weeks ago
If Tuomas had problems with Tarja, he should by all means end it, even much earlier than he did.
But I realy am dissapointed when I see a band that I respect and favor behave so shamelessly. Personal matters, are just that, personal. He could write publicly about the cooperation ending if he wanted so. All the other complains about behavior and husband stories,should be in private. All I see is a no reason humiliation of Tarja,who was mature enough not to sue him. So unprofessional of him.Pitty
MichaelDelTheo 4 weeks ago
@MichaelDelTheo You'd be surprised what people do when they are angry enough. And, this letter coupled with the Nightwish book, pretty much says that ALL the bandmembers, not just Tuomas, were really, really pissed off with Tarja. Marco almost quit, he was so sick of it. Jukka was tired of dealing with show cancellations, and complaints about money (he deals with most of the band's finances). Tuomas was tired of her acting like she didn't need Nightwish anymore.
crimrose 1 week ago
@MichaelDelTheo It was only Emppu who had any hesitation about kicking her out. He just wants everyone to get along, so he was upset about kicking her out like that, but I think the other three were just so angry that they couldn't see any other way. They themselves admit it was brutal of them. You'd be shocked at what people can do with anger that runs that deep, for as long as it did (since Wishmaster). Frankly they could've made it an even bigger deal if they wanted to.
crimrose 1 week ago
@MichaelDelTheo Oh, and sorry for spamming you with information (just trying to clear up some things for people), but actually, they DID sue them. Several times. Marcelo sued the publishers of the Nightwish book, but he lost because the court decided that, based on the evidence, there was reason enough for the members of Nightwish, their management, etc, to believe what was written (Marcelo had bad business practices, was bad with money, held NW back, etc).
crimrose 1 week ago
I believe there is more than one side to this story. Perhaps Tarja really did say that she didn't need NW anymore, and perhaps she really did threaten to leave abruptly. But why? I think the phrases "...separately from us with your husband", "Somehow Marcelo has changed you..." and "...listen to your heart instead of Marcelo" are more significant than most think. I do not doubt that there were real structural problems, but I believe there was more to it than that.
OliverLarson 1 month ago
Haha.. Tarja thinking they don't respect or listen to her.. -> "Believe us, we have always had the uppermost respect towards you"
Yeah, obviously, since you - instead of listening to her - gave her a LETTER while being as far as possible to say all that. Now THAT'S RESPECT AND LISTENING RIGHT THERE (sarcasm)
Bunch of pussies... I mean sure, they had problems but with 9 years of friendship, you'd think they could fucking TALK to her, not give her a letter, release it publicly and humiliate her
sarkasmi83 1 month ago
@sarkasmi83 The Finnish culture is very different to ours. Finns don't talk about their problems, it's a cultural thing. So I'd guess Tarja was probably just as bad at talking about what was bugging her, too. Anette has even said they have issues talking to her, years later. Anette seems to be a lot more straightforward than any of them, though, and it seems like she beats it out of them. LOL.
crimrose 1 week ago
In a fast-paced world like theirs, things can go beyond repair before you even know there's a problem. Tuomas and Nightwish probably did the right thing by letting Tarja go when they did, for whatever reason. We will always have the music that we love from that band. It's all on CD's. And now we have Nightwish with Anette. It is a beautiful world!
513jlynn 1 month ago
@513jlynn Sure, Tarja was leaving, no doubt about that. But the way they did it was pretty damn low.
sarkasmi83 1 month ago
...I miss you, Tarja...
ShadowPhantomKnight 1 month ago
@ShadowPhantomKnight Last time I checked, she was still alive and doing a successful solo career... >_>
Doum92 2 weeks ago
To cancel sold-out show becouse of movies... I'm so sad if it's true. But some parts of letter seems to be written for a fool. I have a big doubt that Tarja is such fool. And of course, Tuomas and the others should talk all the problems about. Chicken-hearted guys.
Arrrrrchy 1 month ago
@Arrrrrchy You think Tarja isn't a fool? How do you know this, I mean, seriously? Do you know her in real life? You're disregarding the fact Tuomas and Tarja were good FRIENDS before she supposedly turned into a diva. By the way, anyone can go on stage and don't act like a fool, offstage however, is an entirely different story.
Drygal1337 1 month ago 3
is it not easier follow the tarja's solo career?
MaRiaMeL29 1 month ago
This letter only scratches the surface on problems with Tarja and Marcelo. Anyone ever heard of the book called "Nightwish"? I do not know if it is sold also in English but in Finnish language at least. It tells the Nightwish story from beginning to the firing of Tarja from the band and everything is told there not just by Tuomas but the whole band, managers, business partners etc. After reading the whole story from there I would never ever think about defending Tarja / Marcelo...
Tooteika 1 month ago
@Tooteika I would like to read that book if it ever comes out in English. Kind of hard to blame the band when they all agreed on the firing...
dieseldog00 1 month ago
@dieseldog00 You're in luck! It is out in English. You can buy it from the NW Shop, and probably Amazon. I think they might have it in e-book as well. I've read it, it is a really good read if you're a big NW fan. It explains pretty well, near the end, why they chose to can Tarja (as a band, not just Tuomas...you see that they were all pretty pissed, and why). Unfortunately, Tarja and Marcelo declined to add their comments, but it's still a good read.
crimrose 1 week ago
@Tooteika The book is written from the Nightwish perspective right? Of course it would paint Tarja and Marcelo as the villains. And well they might be, but their story doesn't get told, so only one side comes out.
dieseldog00 1 week ago
Ok, did any of you hating on Toumas actually read this? I mean HELLOOOO? This letter spells it all out she no longer believed in all ths band encompased! As much as I loved Tarja, she was no longer the right choice for the band. Anette has done a wonderful job so far keeping the spirit of the band alive. Its the music that matters, and bless whoever makes it worth listening to <3
CrazyLittleDragonfly 1 month ago
While I personally think that it was a little bit over the top to make the letter public, it shows Tarja was in the wrong and despite how much I loved her then as I do now, I can't defend someone if they're in the wrong. With an attitude like hers, her dismissal should be considered a blessing.
CokedUpPuppy 1 month ago
I agree with "softan". I think that Toumas fell in love with Tarja and coulnt stand knowing she was with someone else while she was in a band with him. Than again am not so sure because if she really did want more monney,and canceled shows just to go watch movies with "marcelo" than that seems like a valid excuse to kick her out. :/
dragonheart6crush 2 months ago
If they were so displeased with Tarja and her husband then WHY didn't they just talk things out? You can't be mad at someone without them knowing. This story has two sides so I don't think that people should hate on any of the band members, including Tarja. We will never know what REALLY happened. Deal with it and stop hating.
charici 2 months ago
i can understand the cultural thing argentinean people tend to be so proud and make things the way they think is right so maybe he had some influence in tarja's
abdielogando 2 months ago
I feel so sorry for her! And for the rest of the band too. This is the least pleasant way to break up a friendship. We can never know what really happend between them what caused this, the letter explains a lot, but that's only half of the story, thus we cannot judge who is right. Only one thing is sure; if this would happen to me, I would go completely depressed, and cry my eyes out. Tarja is lucky to have her husbant plus so many fans left to love her.
joyaneana 2 months ago
And honestly, if that's how you feel about Tuomas and Nightwish as a whole, then you should forget about them and just listen to Tarja's solo music because they deserve more respect than that; they deserve loyal fans who won't slander them and paint them as petty teenagers.
stevenjsmith87 2 months ago
Why are people saying that Tuomas did this out of jealousy?He was sticking up for you as the fan because clearly she only cared for herself and her career.Cancelling sold out shows and not even bothering to contact the band herself, never wanting to practice with them, moving far away and not speaking to them for a year and refusing to tour in countries with small venues speaks mountains about her attitude, not his.I can see why he didn't want her singing the music that he so passionately wrote.
stevenjsmith87 2 months ago 2
ultimately the blame tarja and Marcello
but i miss the old nightwish </3
JiaSlipknotNightwish 2 months ago
Although Tuomas have said many times he got over, I don´t really thinks so at all. I bet anything he stills missing her more than ever hahahahaha
TheEpicmarian 2 months ago
all that letter does is provide the inner thoughts of a jealous man who couldn't have the girl he was so clearly in love with,he can dress it up however he wants but the fact is he wanted tarja but her heart belongs to marcelo,and that was killing him.
MrMuzzkat 2 months ago
@MrMuzzkat i think you watch too much tv and create stories...
ViciousMinius 2 months ago
@ViciousMinius ok
MrMuzzkat 2 months ago
Of course, there are always two sides to everything. But the guys made a solid case. Tarja,in her press conference after being fired, said she was leaving after the next album and tour and was crying because they split with her before any of that could happen. Seems like they didnt want to have the front woman making all their decisions if she was just gonna leave anyway. It wasnt her band to make those demands, it's Tuomas' if its anyones. Its sad cuz Tarja is so good for Nightwish.
Danuch113ny 3 months ago
i think this letter has been missunderstood for to long... people think, as fans Tarja was everything but for the sake of a future nightwish for the chance to be happy in what they do. Tarja needed to go as they watched a good friend stumble into a person of which wasn't a good tern out , i think if your a fan of nightwish listen to not just Tarja but the whole band and the meaning of them, think beond the letter to see why it had to happen this way , much love :D
xdarkeningcore 3 months ago
seriously.. i feel like crying reading that.
xCraveARavex 3 months ago
If understand the letter in the right way the members of the band thought Tarja became to commercial and also didn't want to spend enough time with Nightwish. Ok: but I really don't understand the issue about the cultural differences...
spaansholland 3 months ago
What a nice letter and explains a lot. Annette and Tarja are both good singers in different ways and I think it is good for NIghtwish to move away from Tarja and change to a different type of singer as it will allow them to explore new avenues musically
adyj73 3 months ago 2
Maybe Tarja was a bitch, but she still sings much better than Anette!
MrShpoulsen 3 months ago 2
@MrShpoulsen tarja isn't a bitch.! why is she a bitch.?
but yes the blame which he left was hers..and i agree that tarja is much better :/
JiaSlipknotNightwish 2 months ago
@MrShpoulsen Tarja was never a bitch...Don't believe whatever they tell you...But yes she is better than anette !!
MyloveforTarja 2 months ago 2
Before everything that you can read here, there are still people defending Tarja? Really? I feel sorry for you, I really do. Saying that doesn't wannna go on with NW and then go cry in front of the media? LOL So fake!
And you people saying that she was the soul of NW? WHAT THE FUCK? She just sing!! Nothing more! The lyrics, the music... They all came from Tuomas' heart, you know that right? Her solo career is nothing comparing to NW, even the "new" NW.
She just have what she deserves.
DiannaRibeiiro 3 months ago
Sometimes things just need to be left alone. I'm glad i seen this, and my views have been greatly focused now. I guess we can safely say that both sides were just going under way too much stress and the whole thing just unraveled. If it didn't happen then it would have happen later no doubt. I think it's better for NW to still be around, likewise with Tarja.
So whatever drama there was between the band i have decided to just leave it int he past and move on with life.
mullent169 3 months ago
Seems to me she has a great relationship with her husband and her husband was pushing her to something that was good for her. That's what husbands do; look out for their wive's best interests.
She wasn't happy in the band b/c things were obviously not going well so she looked elsewhere which happens but she felt bad in leaving as she explained in her interview. So the band forced her to leave earlier than expected. Even though Nightwish is not the same without Tarja a band can't work like that.
hefinca 3 months ago
i love how the annoying mofo spams all over. yet is a fanatic of anette.
fail.
ISeeAnIdiot 3 months ago
Before splitting NW was badly divided into two camps, Tarja and Marcelo vs. the four NW guys and their two managers. The camps disagreed in almost everything. They no longer shared the same goal.The camp members didn´t speak to each other. When it was absolutely necessary they sent emails, and Marcelo handled Tarja´s email correspondence. When people cannot communicate with each other we cannot blame just one party. The split was for the best of both parties.
MetalHeel479 3 months ago 2
greedy?? selfish?? wtf?! underestimating the fans?! she ALWAYS spend time with her fans!! they respect her as a friend?? friends don't announce their decisions with open letters where they describe their "friend" as a "greedy awful person who cares only about the moneys and nothing more". She doesn't deserve that kind of "friends". Too bad they're not together anymore but Tarja's happier now (and the other guys too) and that's what matters for me...:/
HalfBloodSeverus 4 months ago 5
The only thing I think they were wrong about was disseminating this letter to the public the way they did. They should have just given Tarja the letter in private, announced they were looking for a new lead singer, and let Tarja be the one to decide if it should be in the public forum.
derkommissar1917 4 months ago 2
@derkommissar1917 Several reasons to publish the letter
Journalist Ollila, the author of NW biography, was going to publish his book anyway. It appeared 6 mo later and also contained very detailed data about the dismissal
NW guys expected Marcelo and Tarja to give their own explanations in public
The letter tried to explain things to fans (eg NW guys wanted to say that cancelling the US tour was not their fault), record companies and concert promoters (NW guys didn´t want to overcharge gigs)
MetalHeel479 3 months ago
From what this sounds like the band didn't have the balls to sit down and talk to her about these "problems". I think they were afraid that she, Tarja, would become more famous than they, Nightwish, would ever have thought of. Nothing against the group, the "open letter" was an act of cowards. Just an opinion I am stating here.
AlabamaVid2 5 months ago 2
@AlabamaVid2 I would agree with you.Long unaddressed feelings become issues,and then pure anger.Tarja in her interview in Finland did express that she was ignorant to the fact of how the band members thought of her.That alone shows how little they communicated!It is a shame on one hand because they were the only band that gave a feeling of ONENESS in their music!!!That is not matched so far by any other I came across.
vortex162 4 months ago
@vortex162 thank you for the reply. And I fully agree with you reply as well.
AlabamaVid2 4 months ago
@AlabamaVid2 On the other hand Tarja has many aspects of herself,and that,I feel,she would only be able to fully express in a "solo" carrier.And she has taken herself to another level or path of self discovery!And the way things play out make it happen intentionally or unintentionally!I think we all have to move on to other grounds in order to fully live and explore,and I feel she has done just that!
vortex162 4 months ago
@vortex162 we seem to be thinking alike. I totally agree with all you have said tonight.
AlabamaVid2 4 months ago
I hate this letter !!
TheSeherzada92 5 months ago
It's obvious they are pussys as well. Seeing as they had known eachother for 9 years and all the can muster up is a letter they give her and tell her to open it the next day. Are they really so afraid of confrontation. If they stood by there words there would be know reason not to tell her in person. Really lame imo to give her a letter
softan 5 months ago 2
He probably had a thing for Tarja which drove him angry at her husband.
softan 5 months ago 32
@softan thats kind of an immature interpretation of it. It was a band decision and Tuomas does not strike me as the sort of person who would mess up his band because he had an eye for Tarja. There were a number of valid reasons given (wanting more money, cancelling shows, refusing to rehearse, losing all contact with the band etc) it sounds like Tuomas had a good reason to fire her. Of course she will always be remembered as an incredible vocalist and the first female vocalist in Nightwish.
clem070605 4 months ago 3
@softan That is a pretty crude accusation, i'm pretty damn sure there was A LOT more to it than that. That sounds like something a child would say, no offence.
mullent169 3 months ago
@softan ya.... dont look at any of the many logical facts he listed in the letter.....lets just make up rumors....good job Tarja fanatics.
metalkingdom100 2 months ago 2
now, i understand. thx for the truth
OPELxGUY 5 months ago
have you read the letter that she wrote back?
slanis 5 months ago
If this is what *truely (*spelled) happened, then I really understand why the boys couldn't take it anymore.. it's never good to be greedy, Tarja.. hope you taught your lesson..
//Pernille S. Skovgaard (Night Pressure)
NightPressure 6 months ago
Thank you for postig... Ive bee wondering what all was said. But my goodess does he blame her a lot... Not once does he step back and acknowledge that he probably made some mistakes as well... So sad... I am sure that she never really intended for them to feel that way, and I am sure that he never intended her to take it as badly as she did... Just sad is what it is :(
modelgirl2793 6 months ago
Seems to me he blames Marcelo more then anything, He's convinced that Marcelo made her this way, seems more like jealousy of Marcelo doesn't it? :/
Tuomas' personality is what drove him to this conclusion of the Tarja era. Sad it is in fact, Tarja is still missed to this day, but that does not mean we should hate on Anette. When she is doing an incredible job keeping a band like this going strong.
4MadnEsSx 7 months ago 38
@4MadnEsSx I don't miss Tarja at all, actually. It is Nightwish that I miss. It is still the same Tarja Turunen who sings in My Winter Storm and What Lies Beneath as the one that sang Once and whatnot. It so feels like when Tarja left, she took the heart and soul of Nightwish with her, and that while she was fired, that heart and soul (I think Tarja calls Her Ciaran) left willingly. I only discovered Nightwish and Tarja in 2009 August, and it has been an interesting journey for me.
featherwinglove 3 months ago
@4MadnEsSx Marcelo torrmented Tuomas though always mocking him about the fact that he was married to Tarja and Tuomas had lost his chance with Tarja forever
TheDarkMousey 1 month ago
@4MadnEsSx How can you say all of this when you don't know the whole story? In fact, nobody does except the band, Tarja, and Marcelo. Whether any of them have told the truth is something we can't say because we simply do not know. Also, in case you didn't notice, the letter is signed not just by Tuomas, but by Jukka, Emppu, and Marco. If you read the other bandmates' comments, Tuomas wasn't the only one who was DONE with Tarja. Marco and Jukka were especially fed up with her, too.
crimrose 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tarja will rejoin Nightwish in 2013-14 at the latest. After the next tour, Annette will decide that she needs to spend more time with her two children, which will be around elementary school age by then. This will get talk going..things stirring, and when its announced that tarja will rejoin the band it's going to be one grand celebration! I only hope they come to America.
astrolifter 7 months ago
Comment removed
MyBonnySweetheart 7 months ago
This is the biggest cowardice ever, and extremely disrespectful to women. Anyone with half a brain will understand these are pathetic lies and excuses to make himself the good guy and Tarja the bad guy. True mark of a coward, a big baby who cannot own up to his mistakes and flaws, needs to blame everyone else for his problems and his lack of social skills. Tuomas deserves no respect or kindness.
MyBonnySweetheart 7 months ago
Comment removed
astrolifter 7 months ago
@astrolifter I agree he is one of the greatest musicians, I still love his songs. My opinion is regarding his personality based on the book they released. He has repeated the same behavior over and over again, low self-esteem, cowardice and immaturity. That's just the way he is.
MyBonnySweetheart 7 months ago
@MyBonnySweetheart I haven't read the book..I'll have to look into that one, perhaps there are things i'm not seeing..
astrolifter 7 months ago
@astrolifter Yeah it's very detailed & interesting.
MyBonnySweetheart 7 months ago
yeah well...and now Annette is making babies and doing solos with other singers.. life sort of continues on a personal plane for everyone at some point...and watching the last tour dvd ending in the concert in Helsinki, the dudes do seem rather childish in their behavior and attitude toward Tarjas personal life, making remarks like her blowing Marcelo off and stuff..not very adult nor respectful toward someones marriage..Still, they were probably all to blame on some level.
somesortanaughty 7 months ago
Well, reguardless of things happened and who did what or whatever. Kicking someone out of a band through a letter is pretty childish. To Nightwish, "How old are we people?" come on.
zephead26 8 months ago
i fully agree with tomas.i just think that nightwish made a terrible choice of new vocalist.i think that everyone is replaceable ,evn tarja who i greatly admire,but annete is the wosrts replacement
leonidas6326 8 months ago
As much as I love Tarja and her era of Nightwish, I full heartedly agree with Tuomas and the guys with their decision. Maybe they could have gone about it a better way, but whats done is done.
Anette is awesome, lovely, funny and cute and everything AND MORE than Nightwish needs.
Nightwish is more than just music. and it always will be, with or without Tarja.
:)
MrDeylen07 8 months ago
im sure they know how to spell venue and also if this is adressed to Tarja why does it talk to her as if its writen to someone else 2:23 in interviews ive mentions if Tarja leaves, that would be the end of the band, should'nt it be if YOU leave it would be the end of the band
Although im just Hair Splitting.
and also to be honest i think they probally would of done it in person and from how nightwish 'apparently' portray Tarja in this letter it seems that she wanted to leave anyway.
Squgy 10 months ago
First of all, I love Anette, but I consider the 1997-2005 Nightwish as a magical and perfect band, and reading this letter it's so painful but fair; Long live to Nightwish (1997-present) and Tarja.
AaronHolopainen 11 months ago
what are open letters ?xD
CrownChanel 1 year ago
how can i believe this in any way ? personally i dont ... many stories have been told this may just be another one... and according to what @bestman3007 said i think he's right ... friends dont just write open letters !
sofakifuckoff 1 year ago
@sofakifuckoff at that point i don't believe they are still friends :(
ohmkizawa 10 months ago
@ohmkizawa yeah but they had a really strong relationship for many years of cooperation and i still don't believe he would send an open letter saying all these !
sofakifuckoff 10 months ago
Not nice - poor Tarja.
scarletjamable 1 year ago
I didn't understand the part about cultural differences, what was that about?
mynameisnyhm 1 year ago
I'd write and say the same thing to my second ex-friend, why I kicked him out of my life, because I used to see him as a true friend and funny character to now an infantile, greedy pig head.
I'll never give up beacause of one person.
genchandy 1 year ago
cultural diferences? we sudamericans have always the fault? they lost their mainds!
BTW... she is living here in Buenos Aires (South America;) )
danielcaraj 1 year ago
and they say Tarja is bitch?
wow then nightwish is an epic fail.
"Cultural differences"? fuking idiots...
ISeeAnIdiot 1 year ago
well. first of all, how do we know this isn't fake? Second of all. This letter make Tarja look SO bad, and soryy, but i simply wont and can't believe that.
SogLZzzz 1 year ago
@SogLZzzz Not fake :( But as I know Tarja nothing is true:) IMHO million bands can write similar letters to her. One meeting was enough for me to see her real face. She is the kindness person I have ever met and it will not be different ever. She is smart, wise, nice and very very elegant. Tarja will always be in my heart for what she is. No one will dictate me what to think of a person till I find out myself. NW rise their popularity by that letter Tuomas already regret. :)
Althreya 1 year ago
@SogLZzzz Tarja has acknowledged receiving the letter and addressed a lot of the points made.
astrolifter 7 months ago
tuomas is right.. you cant sacrifice the band because of one person, no matter what.. the fact is they all agreed that she must be kicked out of the band.. but still there are some people saying "tuomas kicked her out of the band, he is idiot, nightwish isnt nightwish anymore" .. stop being hypocrit.. they all agreed to fire her.. its 4 on 1 and you are still ignorant.. come on people..
MrCold768 1 year ago
i still feel her husband was actually behind all these sucksss......i believed Tarja was a good fren, naive, and sweet until she met her greedy , selfish husband ....but she loved her husband so much that she could not do anything but to follow that stupid Marcelo instructions in every single aspects of her life
cinta2020 1 year ago
I'm curious, what exactly happened that Tuomas was so sad for one year (as he wrote) and that he did not speak during this time with Tarja ...
GwiazdaWieczorna 1 year ago
Tarja is a great singer but now nightwish is better than ever. It's no matter how big star you are, you have to respect your fans. They will keep you alive.
mrjarna 1 year ago
@mrjarna I don't think Nightwish is better than ever,the new girl make Nighwish to Nightbitch.it's pop not Metal
elektra647 1 year ago
@zephranna01 Well it sounds like she was ripping lots of people off! Cancelling sold out shows to go to the movies with your friends? Way to respect your fans.
BoyWithBlackWings07 1 year ago
But then there is the fact that Tuomas is an avowed racist. While Tarja was embracing other cultures on their tours, Tuomas was shunning them. Tarja liked Asian stuff, so much so she wore her fave Asian outfit in the Nemo video, and sometimes in concert. Tuomas didn't like that, now did he? Nor did he like the fact she married a latino in Marcelo. I don't have a problem with him. My own boyfriend, and life hero, Che Guevarra is also from Argentina. So it seems Tuomas has a problem with browns.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun . You don't even know Tuomas personally, how can you say he is not open minded towards other cultures? He might be asshole but surely he looks clever. I don't think Tuomas gave a shit if Tarja married a latino , a scandinavian, a chinese, whoever. Haha perhaps Tuomas simply had a problem with the fact Tarja married someone else.
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun Spare me the CheGuevara myth please and the comunism -revolution ideas, especially coming from an american girl. Thanks god, you don't even have a remote idea of what comunism has been ,living in your stars and stripes country. ;)
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 What Che Guevara myth? And you're right, nobody who has been alive on the planet in the past couple hundred years has known anything about communism. I certainly don't. Maybe we should try it sometime. If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
STOP THIS FIGHT!
THE REAL TRUE WE NEVER KNOW CUZ WE DONT LIVE WITH THEM.
WE ARENT NOT FANS ANYMORE, WE ARE LIKE CHAINS IN HIS CAREERS.
THE FANS ARE THE HELL ! TUOMAS IS NOT A GOD, TARJA IS NO A QUEEN THEY ARE HUMANS LET THEM BE FREE
THIS BAND GIVES US TO MUCH AND THEY GOT TIRED ALL WE CAN DO IS GIVE THE SAME LOVE.
LET DOWN TO THIS SARCASTICS COMMENTS
NO MORE HATE, SOMEDAY NIGHTWISH AND TARJA WILL BE TOGETHER AGAIN YOU WILL SEE NIGHTWISH AND TARJA NEED THIS SPACE OF THIS PRESSURE OF THE FAME
musikmood 1 year ago
Comment removed
musikmood 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WE NEED STOP THIS FIGHT!
THE REAL TRUE WE NEVER KNOW CUZ WE DONT LIVE WITH THEM.
WE ARENT NOT FANS ANYMORE, WE ARE LIKE CHAINS IN HIS CAREERS.
THE FANS ARE THE HELL ! TUOMAS IS NOT A GOD, TARJA IS NO A QUEEN THEY ARE HUMANS LET THEM BE FREE
THIS BAND GIVES US TO MUCH AND THEY GOT TIRED ALL WE CAN DO IS GIVE THE SAME LOVE.
NO MORE HATE, SOME DAY NIGHTWISH AND TARJA WILL BE TOGETHER AGAIN CUZ THE LIVE IS A CIRCLE YOY WILL SEE NIGHTWISH AND TARJA NEED THIS SPACE OF THIS PRESSURE OF THE FAME
musikmood 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WE NEED STOP THIS FIGHT!
THE REAL TRUE WE NEVER KNOW CUZ WE DONT LIVE WITH THEM.
WE ARENT NOT FANS ANYMORE, WE ARE LIKE CHAINS IN HIS CAREERS.
THE FANS ARE THE HELL ! TUOMAS IS NOT A GOD, TARJA IS NO A QUEEN THEY ARE HUMANS LET THEM BE FREE
THIS BAND GIVES US TO MUCH AND THEY GOT TIRED ALL WE CAN DO IS GIVE THE SAME LOVE.
NO MORE HATE, SOME DAY NIGHTWISH AND TARJA WILL BE TOGETHER AGAIN CUZ THE LIVE IS A CIRCLE YOY WILL SEE NIGHTWISH AND TARJA NEED THIS SPACE OF THIS PRESSURE OF THE FAME
musikmood 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WE NEED STOP THIS FIGHT!
THE REAL TRUE WE NEVER KNOW CUZ WE DONT LIVE WITH THEM.
WE ARENT NOT FANS ANYMORE, WE ARE LIKE CHAINS IN HIS CAREERS.
THE FANS ARE THE HELL ! TUOMAS IS NOT A GOD, TARJA IS NO A QUEEN THEY ARE HUMANS LET THEM BE FREE
THIS BAND GIVES US TO MUCH AND THEY GOT TIRED ALL WE CAN DO IS GIVE THE SAME LOVE.
NO MORE HATE, SOME DAY NIGHTWISH AND TARJA WILL BE TOGETHER AGAIN YOU WILL SEE NIGHTWISH AND TARJA NEED THIS SPACE OF THIS PRESSURE OF THE FAME
musikmood 1 year ago
Ummm, Tuomas isn't a diva, or selfish, or even good. At best, he's an average synth operater and occasionally writes something worth reading. Flock of Seagulls had a much better synth operator than Nightwish. And they were a much better band, musically speaking.
Call Tuomas what he is. An idiot. Please!! He deserves it. Maybe he'll finally kill off the band so that we don't have to be tortured anymore! Everyone knows that Epica is the best band on the planet, with the best singer on the planet.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun Epica is an overrated boring band, compared with old Nightwish they simply sucks. True valid female fronted bands were Third And The Mortal, The Gathering, old Theater of Tragedy. Now it's all pompous shit and boring sound, female metal is dead . Epica are just ridiculous. Go to listen to some decent gothic metal like Paradise Lost kid. The idiot is actually you if you think Epica is the best band on the planet ahah
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 Why did you say "old Nightwish" for? And what's wrong with Epica? I like many of the bands in the genre, from Xandria to Visions of Atlantis to Within Temptation. And since when is symphonic metal labeled as gothic metal? If I wanted to listen to a great gothic band, I'd crank up some Tea Party or Sisters of Mercy.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun Because I think "old" Nightwish were making better music than DPP era. There is nothing wrong with Epica, just calling them "the best band of the genre" seems too much for me considering how unoriginal they are. Symphonic metal took many elements from classic gothic metal, and all wannabe goth girls listen to these bands (Epica, NW) now. Sisters of Mercy are not exactly a metal band, they are a gothic rock band. I'm talking about an other kind of "gothic".
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 I see where it all boils down to opinion. Nothing more. "Good" is merely relative to someone's opinion. Such as whether Tarja or Anette is the better sing.
You know, Tuomas could have easily ended that debate. He could have hired Vibeke when he had the perfect chance to do so. I'd like to hear her side on why Tuomas wouldn't go with her. My OPINION, is that she would not subject herself to the same old manipulation that Tarja, and now Anette, have been going through.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun Vibeke retired from music world to teach. She is not singing in any bands otherwise she would have stayed with Tristania.
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 Vibeke retired to teach? Funny, I heard the same thing about the Visions of Atlantis singer Nicole, but she keeps popping up in Operas from time to time. I heard the same thing about Floor Jansen, all the while she was a member of After Forever for 12 straight years, and is now a member of ReVamp, and guess what? She's still a Professor of Music and continues to teach it. You know, there are some people that can actually chew gum and walk. Vibeke might be offended by your comment.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun No seriously, I think that she really quit for her personal reasons because she wanted to teach or something similar. She wasn't fired. And in fact she isn't doing anything in music business now. Check her official statement. Anyway I think NW didn't contact any singers (perhaps a couple of famous names) , singers sent demos and they picked them up. Why they should have picked a singer singing in an other famous band, they already have their bands.
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 I think you summed it up there. Why did Nightwish bother to hire Tarja as their singer, knowing that she was not the best fit for them as they claimed in the letter.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun Lol Nightwish didn't "hire" Tarja. When Tuomas had the idea to found a band on his own he already knew Tarja (they knew since they were 13) and he thought of asking her. They didn't even look for an other singer. And he never said she wasn't the best fit, actually he has always said she was perfect for NW. music was never the problem between them
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 So it was no problem when Tarja was a kid, but when she grew up into a woman and was able to think and speak for herself, that's when it became a problem?
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun No, problems for the band started when Marcelo kept interfeering too much with their decisions about gigs. Obviously it's much more complex and most of the faults, in my opinion, laid in Nightwish bad comunication and management, but it would be too long to explain. Add to this scenario personal problems between Tarja and Tuomas.
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 That sounds like a more neutral answer, lol. But I'm still mad with Tuomas. You are right to point out the personal problems. I think it's just sad that he had to drag his differences with Tarja into the public and then try to manipulate the fans to think it was all Tarja's fault. I'm sure she's not totally innocent either. But Tuomas acts like he's never done anything wrong. If you listen to Dead Boy's Poem, he tells you that he will let you down, betray you. It's the way he is.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun I'm quite neutral about the whole mess with NW. Anyway, I agree about Tuomas lyrics. In his lyrics he actually self pity a lot..saying all the time in his lyrics which kind of bad person he is. Take The Poet and The Pendulum, it's all about disliking himself. Pretty emo, huh? ahah
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 I don't see him as being emo at all. I see him as a hypocrite.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun +1
IvanTsarina 1 year ago
@Moonsorrow84 And in case you don't know what manipulation I'm referring to, it's the very manipulation that drove both Tarja and Anette to seek out their own personal managers. Funny, that was something listed in the video above, as to why Tuomas dumped Tarja.
But there's more. What does Tuomas mean by "cultural differences" in the letter? Last time I checked, both Tarja and Tuomas are from the same small city in Finland. There is no cultural difference between them.
PalemoonSun 1 year ago
@PalemoonSun The "cultural differences" thing was related to Marcelo not to Tarja. And his comment is not racist in my opinion. It was maybe inappropriate and too personal but not racist. He just meant that Marcelo, coming from an other country and culture, had an other way of thinking.
Moonsorrow84 1 year ago
And for all of the people who love using the diva word, not a single one of them knows what the hell diva actually means. It's a reference to a successful female singer. What's wrong with that? In that definition, which is actually in the dictionary, then Anette is a diva as she's been a pretty successful female singer in her own right. Is she not?
Destin65 1 year ago
Tarja was the better one! And there was no reason for this abasement the band did to Tarja
Shockwave69 1 year ago
Comment removed
musikmood 1 year ago
@musikmood I agree, I only wish Tuomas had left the fans out of his jealous rage over Tarja. I don't care to hear his childish behavior. He needs to keep his ass in the studio where it belongs and his nose out everybody's business.
Destin65 1 year ago
No... Nightwish without Tuomus is Nothing. Not Tarja...
typicalxlyf 1 year ago
Tarja was fired, because of all her greedy behaviors, huh.
genchandy 1 year ago
this open letter is just one sound of the bell and not the main reason, anyway Tarja does well with her own band and Nightwish are not really hitting the fans out of the shoes with the new songs, neither with the "old" songs performed by Anette, but hey thats just my opinion as fan from the first CD on... enjoy your life : )
Mad9977 1 year ago
Now the new band. I am a HUGE Tarja fan, but I said I would give the new vocalist the chance everyone deserves. After listening to the new material released by the band no it is not the same by any regards. I have always listed the previous compositions as an angelically dark band. Now its just another dark band. The new vocalist is good don't let it be misconstrued, the girl is extremely talented. Her voice just doesn't ring angelic to me. Just my opinions. I mean no offense. ---Landfear
ThompsonInternation 1 year ago 19
@ThompsonInternation that is the point though (at least the way i see it) angelic-angel- heaven- dead or sorrow
while anette got a more lively vocals... i hope you understand what i mean, most of tarjas songs seem... well... sad... (end of all hope...two for tragedy) while anettes seem more hopeful (Eva, escapist)
i hope you understand, and i enjoyed reading your posts
NightWish22893
nightwish22893 1 year ago
@ThompsonInternation That was a respectful comment, better than all the abuse I see on her videos. I heard Anette's songs first so became a fan of her and now am opening my eyes to some of Tarja's stuff. Wow! I think her voice is incredible, i love the music (esp this, phantom of the opera, angel) and I've seen vids of her stunning audiences live, although I admit I had to let her voice grow on me. I think Annette's voice however, is suited to more melodic songs like bye bye beautiful/ amaranth.
BoyWithBlackWings07 1 year ago
@ThompsonInternation (continued)
So I am a fan of both the girls, Anette forthe rockier ones, and Tarja for the beautiful melodies such as this one. However from this video alone, I don't think she sounds like a singer I would respect (that is, for anything other than voice) I have a solo single of hers in my related vids that looks interesting, tempted to click on it but don't see the point as I can see the reasons for leaving in the first place were selfish and unkind n don't want to boost
BoyWithBlackWings07 1 year ago
@ThompsonInternation her solo career with views if she is that sort of person. :(
BoyWithBlackWings07 1 year ago
you know this whole thing is kind of messed up. irregardless of the reasons behind the break I think it was more a break down in between people. B/c to be honest best friends should just want each other to be happy. Its clear both sides were unhappy and the separation could have been handled better. They had a beautiful thing going, but it came to an end. Why not celebrate what it was and then move on. now both sides are hurt to where repair is not possible. Truly sad.
---Landfear
ThompsonInternation 1 year ago
CONT: ... and that will be forever curved in metal history not as a footnote but as significant fact. Now it is Annette's turn and I am immensley enjoying her vocal style. In my brain, there is room for Tarja, Annette, Nightwish, Within Temptation, Leaves' Eyes and what have you. My only wish is for all you European metal female fronted bands is to stop copying Amy Lee/Evanecsence because it really sucks. You have a winning formula so don't screw it up.
valleyofneptune 1 year ago
A teachable moment for both sides. Nightwish had very good and legitimate reasons. Bottomline: they just weren't getting along fine anymore and knew that Tarja would be leaving the band after the release of a new album. Tarja, on the other hand, had her own priorities, her own goals st up for the near future. Bottomline: the band shoul've spken with her personally first before making it public like they did. But what is done is done. Tarja made beautiful music with the band...
valleyofneptune 1 year ago
I hate this letter, everyone see that Tuomas loves Tarja and have Jealous of her husband,is not the right way to kicked someone in the Band. I trust me I´ve seen Atitudes like this before.
ladyxscorpion 1 year ago
tarja husband chose to a solo diva so that they can make money...but suddenly is hard to chose both of them.. the band mate or the love one's...
marcdy032889 1 year ago
After reading this i unerstand the band but they should of told her straight up
LukeSWalker 1 year ago
I hate this stupid letter
this is written only by Tuomas
chopantura 1 year ago
i think that a part of the letter was wrote by tuomas' jealousy towards marcelo.
legolas628 1 year ago
Well, I wish they would have talked about this problem isntead of through an open letter. Then the problem could have been solved (thats what I have established after looking at both sides of the argument).
And I wish they would have stopped blamng it all on her husband.
litlemadguitarist 1 year ago
@litlemadguitarist you are right.probabbly tuomas was too scared to talk with her
legolas628 1 year ago
When Tarja made her solo album,she showed that she can go on her own,but Nightwish with Anette is just wrong,I mean she has a good voice but it is not the real Nightwish... :(
darknessblackyuki666 1 year ago
Guys you need to know that she got fired because the band felt that she was being greedy, and that she did not have Nightwish as a priority anymore. Disagreements between the band and her husband also played a factor in her dismissal.
reeree10488 1 year ago
"The mental satisfaction should always be more important than money! Nightwish is a band, it's an emotion." Well, this statement it's like a BIG LOL having in mind what they made of Nightwish!!! It's more comercial then ever, and why? Because they knew that Tarja leaving the band would go down, so they had to go for a diferent aproach in order to reach to a diferent quind of fans because the old ones would, most of them, be gone. The band is about money? Oh no, surelly not... LOL... whatever.
YouAreLost2 1 year ago
Tuomas doesn't seem to understand that he feeds himself with sadness. He can't see it in a way that he knows that he creates all the sadness and soorrow around him, putting himself and others around him to this kind of situations. He's just too deep into it. It's really easy to see that just from listening and knowing Nightwish's songs. Amazing band, though
TheSunWisdom 1 year ago
in my opinion, and others, i believe that Toumas loves Tarja... and is jealous of Marcelo... i mean... seriously, to watch videos of Tarja and Toumas together, it's like they're the married couple... but.... whatever...
izziegirlvamp666 1 year ago
well I don't hate anette but for me it's definetly not the Nightwish anymore I loved so much...and I'm even not sure what I should believe - Tarja's version or the band's version...I don't know so I just accept their decision and listen to the old songs and Tarja's new album. But it was very interesting to read the letter and see what the band's opinion is like...thanks for uploading this.
DarkSun336 1 year ago
He never stopped two seconds to think that maybe HE was the problem.
LadyMithrain 1 year ago
@LadyMithrain Agreed! The diferences in Tarja since she left NW are too big not to be noticed. Her performance on stage, for na instance, now she's much more "free", she has fun all the time, interacts with fans and stuff... when in Nightwish she sort of restrained herself and she didn't looked exactly happy... It's all too contradictory, I honnestly think that Tuomas was the problem, not Tarja. In my opinion, he atacked her and Marcelo in order to reach her somehow, even if in a bad way.
YouAreLost2 1 year ago
ANETTE SUCKS...and i'm soo sad because of that fuckin son of a bitch Marcelo
dorinpe 1 year ago
Pienso que pudo solucionarse o terminar en los mejores terminos y no con la carta abierta, Nighwish como Tarja son excelentes y los dos se complementan muy bien, éxitos para los dos aunque estén separados!!
Azumilu 1 year ago 3
It's sad.
ZwergEmanze 1 year ago 6
Anette SUCKS!
MarioPetkovic 2 years ago 2
anette is a very telented singer...she's def no tarja but I like her style. If anything needs replacing is the guitarist...man they could do so much better. He plays fine but he doesn't stand out or have a wow factor. Imagine someone like george lynch or zakk with em...
Jaywarde82 1 year ago
that letter can not be wrote at the English language, they are from Finland fgs!
Ana open letter...? That is a shit.
Nakovcanka 2 years ago 2