Heirlooms- Ruining WoW low lvl PvP since WotLK

[TheDinosaurDemocracy]

quit crying

[LightningIrving]

And don't bother trying to report me for threats of violence, because I didn't threaten anyone. I said I HOPE they burn in hell. I didn't say I was PERSONALLY going to send them there. I'm fucking angry, not stupid.

[LightningIrving]

Fuck Bliztard. I hope the fucking shit-heads who made this decision all burn in hell. And I hope the fucktards who refuse to fix it fucking burn away into nothing, in a sea of never ending lava...

If you think I'm fucking over-reacting, try playing HEIRLOOMLESS WITH LAG!!! I'm SICK of being PUSHED AROUND in that SHITTY EXCUSE of a "game"!!!! I just quit about 10 minutes, actually. Never buying one of Bliztards shitty projects ever again.

[TheJakubCZ1]

Fucking heirlooms 

[toldosaurusrex]

Heirlooms need a massivenerf especially in the lower levels. I just joined wsg on my 19 unheirloomed (but still decently geared) rogue (yeah yeah, i know) and I got 1 shot by a hunters 700 crit aimed shot (he had 1.4k hp.. how are you meant to compete against that?!) I tried grabbing their flag, shadowstep, gouge and tried to sprint away but he still got me in under a second when his gouge was over. How can blizzard be so retarded and not do anything about this?! This is turning off new players.

[SarethZhukov314]

Heirlooms completely ruined PvP. To be honest, twinks were more tolerable. PvP isn't fun anymore because dungeon and pvp vendor gear isn't even worth anything at low levels. Blizzard has got so lazy with their game that they know that adding "new" things to the same game will keep people wanting to pay for it. Same thing happened with COD, same method that Blizzard uses. It's pathetic, really. Blizzard should take heirlooms out, because they ruin the fun for people who can't afford them..

[Warhamer116]

@SarethZhukov314 ^+1

True. I have all looms minus the fishing ring, and it's too easy to both lvl and do pvp with those.

I made experiment with hunter: It took 1 day to get from lvl 1 to lvl 65, with only 5 hours of playing segmented between morning, evening and late night.

Seems kinda ridiculous

And ofc... those aimed shots... i hit the same numbers with my 50 fire mage and with my 20 hunter.

[SarethZhukov314]

@Warhamer116 I know i wear heirlooms too, but if you think about it that's the ONLY way to survive in PvP. I wouldn't do it if i didn't have to. If a hunter targets you in PvP with aimed shot, you're as good as dead if you don't stun them. Blizzard ruined low-level PvP, I don';t know if they realize it... I was thinking of making a ticket about it. Just so i could at least let Blizzard know many players are unhappy about this. But they'll probably think i'm wasting their time w/ the ticket..

[Warhamer116]

@SarethZhukov314 They know.

Even blue post confirmed it saying "we are aware of this issue, but we are concentrating our efforts on the endgame content where the balance changes will have more effect"

So basically "We are too busy drinking kool-aid that we wont fix low lvls. Buy the fucking expansions and get the looms idiots!"

[M16xDr0pSh0tz]

@SarethZhukov314

well not out but out of pvp because people that don't wanna level another toon have somewhat of a chance to not die like shit. I am new to WoW... 67 tauren and I know that you CANNOT pvp at low ranks what so ever because you get Vets on full heirlooms getting 100k dps overall and it makes newbies like me pissed off at the unbalacement

[SarethZhukov314]

@M16xDr0pSh0tz I feel for you, man. I've played since 2006, and when i'm not wearing heirlooms, it doesn't matter how long i've PvPed. I still get killed by full heirloomed hunters and rogues. of course, i don't hate the players themselves. I hate blizzards stupid outrageous decision to include such ridiculous items to the game.

Low level PvP is ruined because of it. Heirlooms only start to lose their value at level 70 when you start getting gladiator gear. It sucks.

[maxumus158]

your lucky that worgen is a noob and was wearing the honour heirlooms instead of the justice ones

[Warhamer116]

@maxumus158 the worgen had no looms.

Honor looms are better than justice looms in pvp.

[maxumus158]

@Warhamer116 ah i forgot about that i normally use heirlooms instead of crappy pvp looms which is so much easier to get

[Warhamer116]

@secretPENGUIN69 What's the point of using trinket for sap when you don't see enemy?

All that happens is that i get sapped again without enemy that i can put myself "in combat" against.

Yes i can use the FN and Frze to root them in place, but that requites me to see my enemy.

well.... rogues... you get the idea.

[tommyrogu3]

you dont need heirlooms just enchant your gear!!

[Warhamer116]

@tommyrogu3 Problem here:

They have enchants as well.

Also if you buy expensive enchant, enchant your non-heirloom item, that item is going to get outdated FAST. I mean like one bracket and done. With looms that's not the case. Also if you use weaker, less expensive enchants... well, let's just say that it's like throwing bucket of water at erupting volcano. It's not going to work. Against dudes with 2-3x your hp and 25% resilience, one or two points of stamina or armor won't help.

[Darkz699]

as a new player, i stopped my subscription because of heirloom imballance. would like to play again, but not if looms are there

[Warhamer116]

@Darkz699 The looms start to suck after lvl 60, but the problem lies in levels before 60.

Those 60 levels of imbalance are far more than enough for new players to quit indeed.

As i am pvp'r in hear, this imbalance is damn unfair. It's like pvp in free mmo.

And as a new player, you can't get looms as justice points are lvl 70+ only, and honor gain before lvl 70 is minimal.

All in all, nerfs made this game more "new player" friendly, while slapping "new players" into the face with heirlooms.

[Scwibbles91]

you were level 10 what did you think was gonna happen?

[Warhamer116]

@Scwibbles91 pvp.

And as you know, PvP=/= oneshotting

I could argue about class imbalances as well, but i consider it quite ridiculous that players in same bracket can oneshot even without skill.

Yes you die fast if you fight against non-loomed player with non-loomed char, but there is difference between dying fast and getting oneshotted.

[sabbalo]

heirlooms ruined wow leveling experience

[Warhamer116]

@sabbalo That too.

It's annoying how everything, EVERYTHING is like "you can't judge the game from it's lvling content! play endgame blaaa".

MMO's are about DEVELOPING YOUR CHARACTER, BECOMING MORE SKILLED WITH LEVELS and so on etc etc. The way lvling goes nowdays they might as well ding all players to 85 (or 90 soon, pandaria is out soon) if you have all expansions. If some tbc player came back to wow as it is right now, he would think of it as private server (that was my reaction).

[sabbalo]

@Warhamer116 i totally agree

[bhwasmir]

Owned!

[Rockinbite]

i miss old twinks before this heirloom crap atleast the were fewer in number

[Warhamer116]

@Rockinbite Also the twinks needed more work.

If you want to twink with looms you need to:

get high char.

Transfer looms.

Done.

BC twinks needed grinding for enchants, grinding for gear, grinding for everything, it was so much harder and there ware so few of them. BTW blue post reads that they know what's going on but they won't bother doing anything about it as they are busy buffing ice lance damage and Shatter effect.

[sabbalo]

@Warhamer116 god i still remember my twinks! that was so much fun back in BC. i had a rogue a warrior and a mage, and i teared shit up ^^

[enigmasadrenaline6]

wow i am really glad some one made a video about this. they should really stop this, like not allowing heirlooms in pvp

[MrToadful]

Heirlooms as a whole ruined the levelling experience in WoW - not just PVP. You now get the alts of high levels steaming through dungeons so fast that it's not a challenge at all. They forget that new or casual players don't have gear to match theirs, so often end up pulling aggro with their inflated DPS or taking on too many mobs that an average-geared healer can't deal with. Blizzard now just focus on endgame and the alts of endgame players. No-one else is seen as important.

[Warhamer116]

@MrToadful Yep.

I was levelling hunter with full heirloom gear is stratholme, and one multishot took entire aggro from all of the adds.

And according to blizzard, heirlooms were made so that "Levelling via pvp is now viable way of levelling"

So basically heirlooms should theorethically be BALANCED in pvp.

Fucking a.

[Ryuksama]

I just want to point out that it isn't so much heirloom gear making certain classes hit harder, admittedly it is for a bunch of them. But low level rogues and hunters are completely op in bgs right now. Rogues have an almost guaranteed crit with ambush, and most all low level rogues are sub, so they have shadowstep right off. And hunters can just kite for days in the low level brackets.

[Warhamer116]

@Ryuksama Agreed.

Easiest nerf would be to move concussive shot to lvl 25 (when other classes get slows etc)

and reduce ambush and eviscerate damage by 50% with 50% diminish per bracket or something (50% @ 10-14, 25% @ 15-19, 12,5% @ 20-25, 6,25% @ 26-30) to lvl damage output with health.

Well, that being said i'll go back getting oneshotted by loomed prot paladin's avenger's shield..

[Multishot20001]

heirlooms are op yes i think they shoudnt be allowed in pvp or atleast not 10-59 60-80 cuz there you can get pvp gear

[Warhamer116]

@Multishot20001 Idd the looms shouldn't be allowed until 55. why 55? Because DK's come at 55. Then the pvp is DKvP until 60 (dk starting gear is basically the 60 pvp gear)

[rand0msap44]

Fucking heirlooms shouldn't be allowed in PvP. End of Story.

[Warhamer116]

@rand0msap44 In that we agree brother.

[TheStingerY]

A lowby geared hunter taking down a twinked out warrior. Would that be the case in PvP for rift? If so, rift has a win in my book, there are some issues that I would personally workout before I was moved from WoW to rift, if it was AEON to rift, rift definate win.

[Warhamer116]

@TheStingerY Rift has problems, i don't deny it.

But it has potential, whereas WoW has reached the old age of mmorpgs.

It is still strong, yet it is getting boring or repetitive to increasingly many players

[Ln192]

@Warhamer116 Rift... potential? Wow. I must've played the wrong game then.

[TheStingerY]

I have heard this before, I have a buddy who plays rift and he listens to me(twinked) complain all the time about how games are always coming down to which team is better geared, and tells me that the class(soul trees) set up have a way of complementing eachother to make the game in general much more balanced then wow, he says that even in a case of someone geared to overpower, a less geared person with the right class set up can still take control of the combat situation. I.e. WoW's version of

[TheStingerY]

My gear comes in handy outside of PvP just as much as in PvP, I hope you find a way to satisfy what your looking for, but nerfs always lead to more nerfs, and if you have underpowered gear, it comes down to classes/talent setup, when that gets nerfed, it goes back to who has better gear, I think that even without Hlooms, people would find awayto "ruin" low level PvP no matter what.

[Warhamer116]

@TheStingerY TBC twinks in other words.

Odd though, the Rift mmorpg doesn't have "twinking", because enchantments etc etc have strict lvl requirements (no +25 agi enchants to ilvl 1 gear)

The twinking CAN be balanced, or removed.

Blizz don't want to do that though, since it unbalanced low lvl pvp funnels pvp'rs to endgame content, just like broken pvp queues do right now (4.2).

[TheStingerY]

@Warhammer116, I agree with your statement at the beginning of the video when you say its unbalanced, I go into lowby bracket PvP all the time and the winner of the BG is usaully the team with more players geared in BOA(honor/justice) Hlooms, but, the agruement that its "ruining" WoW low level PvP is not accurate, I have Hlooms gear, but it took winning( and many looses) to get them, yes it was hard, but not impossible, plus, noone is forcing you to play PvP via BG games.

[Warhamer116]

@TheStingerY World pvp is dead. Guards killed it.

Arena is for 70+

Bg is only pvp in vanilla wow and tbc. Face it.

[officialseaside]

they dont care about you if you didnt buy there expansions its as simple as that it is highly unbalanced but the game will always be that way they nerf somthing here then somthing else gets to strong so they nerf that its a chain and it wont end

[akoolhordie]

well if there ruining pvp why dont you stop qqing and get some looms then you will be as op as them

[Warhamer116]

@akoolhordie Read teh description plox.

I have all binds to account items except dead pirate ring and guild tabards (4.2)

[Drazinz]

Looms make a so huge difference against any class... so ye let's take a low lvl huntard and put some fucked up looms on him = OP top damage + kills in any BG what so ever.... why?

[bubblebeam8888]

i don't get the point in this. basically, as a mage beeing killed by a rogue with better gear is normal (it's the same when you do pvp after just reaching the max-lvl; guess how many classes would kill you within a second at lvl 85 with no resilience and 80k hp or so). i mean, at that point you would get pvp-gear, so how about getting some heirlooms?

[Warhamer116]

@bubblebeam8888 That is completely true.

The difference, however, is that at 85 you can either specialize to PvE or PvP with gear.

The 10-14 and 15-19 brackets are the most unbalanced brackets in the game, and also trial and new players brackets. At that point these groups i mentioned don't have access to BtA gear, or lvl-specific PvP gear. This causes extremely bad impression of WoW (as the pvp is quite enjoyable @85), almost like any free mmorpg (ubergear chars only for VIP players)

[bubblebeam8888]

@Warhamer116 well, i know read the description and slightly get ur intention.

however, for a game that's released for so long, it's just normal to develop something like the heirlooms (i just assume u do know the difference between the f2p-mmorpg-store system and wows heirlooms).

anyway, u should be aware that this game has enough players (basically well experienced and familiar with this (kind of) "ubergear") and is obviously made for "them" and not those who testing it.

[Warhamer116]

@bubblebeam8888 Yes i know the f2p and BtA difference (real $ vs honor grind).

I've been playing shaya before wow.

I am aware that the players with mains get it easier.

I am just trying to defend those who are less fortunate (those who dont have bta gear).

Battle i'm going to lose i know.

[bubblebeam8888]

@Warhamer116

no no, i someway appreciate this, your altruism i mean ~

[Drazinz]

@Warhamer116 Unfair for the Trial account players, makes the game look bad for people who love PvP. Let's say you enter PvP for the very first time and then suddenly 1-3 huntards in looms show up and you only die/ress through the entire fucking battle? Don't see why he should ever get the game.

[Warhamer116]

@Drazinz My thoughts exactly.

The only reason i bought this game back in WotLK was because my friend let me play his 80 feral druid for 3 bg's. The PvP was breathtaking, and i fell in love with it. That didn't happen when i was oneshotted/gycamped in 10-14 ans 15-19.

[bubblebeam8888]

@Warhamer116

u see, its kind of a simple theory as it comes to lowlvlplayers: 1. they have no experience and/or not the possibility to get heirlooms and just die (factual meaning) 2. they have exp. and/or heirlooms and live (again factual meaning). (maby a little oversimplified...)

so, everyone can decide on his own, wether he uses this (kind of..) theory to her/his advantage or complains about it.

[Warhamer116]

@bubblebeam8888 So basically new players are cannonfodder?

Oh well. Just played pvp on 12 druid.

I was 2 shotted most of the time, but still managed to get 3-1 k/d. No looms, but only skill.

but there were some 1.3k hp lvl 10 players that were utterly undownable 1shotters. Ofc skill matters, but gear matters more (wow=gear based)

Anyway, one's gg is other's bg. A law of nature, unles fight was fair (normally not in 10-19). Still managed to pull of some nice duels against unloomed players :)

[bubblebeam8888]

@Warhamer116 actually i never played pvp lvl 1-30 (most of my characters reached lvl 30 in one day, so i saw no nessecity).

therefore i modify the theory. it works from lvl 30 on.

it works for every player, though, if you omit the "or" in 1. and 2.

[Warhamer116]

@bubblebeam8888 I see.

However, in my experience the trial players can't buy BTA gear (the druid whom i was speaking of got 2175 honor and tried to buy pvp shoulders, but wasn't able to). Anyway the hardcore pvp'rs won't get good impression from wow based on trial pvp time. When i started wow (i am hardcore pvp'r, all that matters to me is good pvp) i played the trial and was like meh. Also your theory is basically "stop whining and go get som looms" theory. Sorry for criticizing.

[bubblebeam8888]

@Warhamer116 you know, there's no need to apologize.

in any case, u figured out the punchline in ur former statement.

however, even if ur intention (this strange style of kindness) is a good thing, what's ur aim in this dispute?

or do u just want to argue? i'd be fine with that, though :3 ~

[Warhamer116]

@bubblebeam8888 This is basically video-form protest towards heirloom gear.

Also it was basically the very reason i deserted wow and turned my gaze towards Rift (in addition to graphics). I like lvling>endgame, and this is heresy to your average wow player's ears. To vanilla veterans it's basically the only way to go. I miss old WoW (vanilla and TBC), the WoW before new devs buttraped it :'L

So that being said i go to WoW 2.0, AKA Rift, AKA "WoW if devs actually worked for their salary"

[bubblebeam8888]

@Warhamer116 my, my! now you've brought something. but that's fine, u indirectly ended this quarrel.

i will say 3 things in return.

first of all, u can't use "protest" as a reason, protest, for its part, needs a reason.

secondly, be careful with overall judging people.

and thirdly, what u wrote at the and (inrespect to the first point) finally was a good reason. i agree with what u said, wow was better at this former time, beyond doubt, this u can defend.

btw: how's rift? (in comparison)

[Warhamer116]

@bubblebeam8888 Rift= WoW patch 1.1-1.5 with dungeon finder (sorta, only random dungeons, other with LFG), and battleground finder + graphics that rape your computer in the ass (look my video on that).

Also i like the fact that there is no

-overpowered pvp resilience gear

-no heirlooms (yay!)

-BG lvl-limit goes 10 lvls (10-19, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, 50) so i can actually go to pvp without 10-60 min queue

[WantToKnowEvreything]

I still beat them without heirlooms :S

[Warhamer116]

@aj42311 There is a chance that this video was made just as 4.1 popped out (17.5 )

New videos hardly get much views in short time u know (unless you have large subscriber base).

Anyway there is a saying "Fight fire with fire" Hope you didn't get very offended :D

[buliwyfZrage]

@Warhamer116 The Game isnt about low lvl PvP.

[Warhamer116]

@buliwyfZrage But it's part of it.

The game is (in pvp front) all abot 85 pvp, and (in rpg front) raiding

Still, if i were to say: Children need no rights because childhood covers only 1/6th of life, would it be right?

[buliwyfZrage]

@Warhamer116 The low lvl PvP is just a extra to get faster EXP now.

[Warhamer116]

@buliwyfZrage for some indeed.

For some it's more simple pvp, and most of all, it's the new players and trial players pvp.

Those who are starting wow and those who are trying wow get REALLY bad impressions of WoW PvP when they play this kind of pvp. I mean, ubergear chars, ultrahp potions, +100 str buffs, etc etc.

Are you getting what i'm trying to say? Not everyone is lvl 85 in blizzard servers.

[buliwyfZrage]

@Warhamer116 If they want a better view of the PvP, they easely can watch a PvP Video.

[Warhamer116]

@buliwyfZrage That tells little.

Like saying: If you want to know what martial art is like, then watch video of it.

(If you have tried any martial art, you'll know the difference)

Looking from the side and actually doing something are different things.

[buliwyfZrage]

@Warhamer116 Instead of caring too much about a virtual Game You should LEARN Martial art.

[Warhamer116]

@buliwyfZrage I AM learning martial art.

The name of it is Han Moo Doo. Agility and speed based composition martial art mostly practiced in Scandinavia.

[buliwyfZrage]

@Warhamer116 Then stop bitching about this Game, and don't wonder why You suck at low lvl PvP.

[Warhamer116]

@buliwyfZrage That breaks the point.

And tell me: How is it sucking when you get 1shotted by enemy you can't see?

[aj42311]

You can get to 85 without heirlooms. And 1, your story isn't straight, there is one level 10 rogue, and one level 13 (I couldn't make out the resolution, but the level color is not yellow). There are OP classes in every single level bracket, from 10-20 it's rogues, from 20-30 it's rogues and paladins. Casters are pretty easy for low level BGs, even with heirlooms on. Rogues are the weakest at 85, they have to try the hardest, and die the fastest.

[Warhamer116]

@aj42311 First "hurr durr 85 gtfo" comment from you sir.

BTW did you even bother to read description?

[aj42311]

@Warhamer116 I don't exactly know what a "hurr durr 85 gtfo" is..

My only point was that developers of games aren't going to spend time trying to balance a level bracket where you spend 3 hours in. They're going to focus on the 85 brackets of course. Over 2 million people have been 1-hit in a low level BG. Why were you the only one to make a video about it?

[Warhamer116]

@aj42311 "hurr durr 85 gtfo" comment is basically comment that says "no need to balance low lvl because endgame pvp is all that matters because everyone naturally have all expansions automatically installed" in one form or other. These kinds of comments can be found: While playing BG as alliance. WoW low lvl pvp threads and Youtube comments. And why did i make video?

For the lulz. Just to show what kind of pvp you can expect if you start wow WITHOUT buying all 120€ expansions.

[aj42311]

@Warhamer116 Also, how fragile is your ego that you have to reply to every single one of your viewer's comments, insulting them saying "READ THE DESCRIPTION FOOL". You do realize people don't come on YouTube to read the description of your video, especially when it was poorly typed like yours is. I'm glad you "published looms (no cata legs or rings) minus kalyak's fishing derby stam ring (Dread Pirate Ring)"

[Warhamer116]

@aj42311 umad bro O.o

Anyway yours was the first one i responded with look at the description.

As i come from Finland (languages: Finnish and Swedish) there will be English grammar errors.

BTW i didn't call anyone fool as long as i can remember.

BTW2 reading description makes the video clearer (usually) and decreases troll comments like yours.

[benman212]

dude hitting 136 on you and taking all your health you fail



[Warhamer116]

@benman212 how do you prevent it :3

Frost shield wont help you naw

[Roxamification]

happens to me all the time.... though im the one with the heirlooms ^^

u mad people without heirlooms?

[Warhamer116]

@Roxamification Pretty mad yes. Wouldn't you be if you bought game that advertised itself as "Balanced" and find out that it's just as imbalanced as any "Free" mmorpg?

Nowdays pretty many people have heirlooms, but the heirloom gear can only be attained by having main char who grinded honor for looms to give alt. Newcomers won't have those. And like i said, trial mode players will just drop the game before even buying it.

I considered dropping it, and after 500 facepalm matches i quit wow.

[LimeGuy101]

@Warhamer116 grinded honor for heirlooms? At level 85, do a few heroics, get some JP, buy a few heirlooms, there you go, your toon is as decked out as all the others. Plus, I really don't see why you're complaining, if you wanna do PVP while levelling then you'll be getting enough honor to buy PVP gear for your level, which is far superior to Heirlooms in a PVP situation. Heirlooms are designed to help powerlevel alts, therefore they have PVE stats, Quit whining cause Horde ganked you.

[Warhamer116]

@LimeGuy101 Did you even read my comments -.-'

i have all heirlooms, minus kalyak's fishing ring.

The point of the video is that the TRIAL and NEW players get horrible pvp experience, and this alone should be worth noting, as majority of pvp'rs that start new MMoRPG run trials first before they buy game. The low lvl isn't very... informing in this way.

Someone like endgame<lvling, plus expansions sum to 130€ (aprox). Some like to know if they get their money's worth before buying.

[Owliganka]

This is why I quit wow......

[Ownage1067]

Yeah, I have a twink, with blues, he has the green goggles, and he gets fucking destroyed now. I used to come in first with him without even trying, and now i get destroyed by heirlooms... It's like what the fuck?

[Warhamer116]

@Ownage1067 btw i had full max craft gear minus chestpiece. all green.

Anyway it's not the heirlooms hp bonus that is op, but the damage bonus.

Unloomed ones die before they have fighting chance and that is really unfair/op.

(saw how beautifully the worgen priest died? like straight off the book!)

[95uptheirons]

lol you fail

[Warhamer116]

@95uptheirons You do realize that it's hard to fight when you are oneshotted?

[95uptheirons]

@Warhamer116 Yes Yes, i really do :) But why don't you get some heirlooms yourselves though? Problem solved!

[Warhamer116]

@95uptheirons That is the easiest solution, but think this way:

The 10-14 and 15-19 bracers are trial (new players and trying players) bracers.

What kind of impression does this pvp give to new players? That is my point (and yes, i have all heirlooms. I made this only to show unloomed pvp)

[Warhamer116]

@95uptheirons (all heirlooms minus kalyak's fishing derby stamina ring)