No emotion? This argument facinates me with Steinman. Jim wrote this song, it comes from a play he wrote, he understands the emotion that the song needs and portrays wonderfully, better then Meat did in my opinion. Alot of the emotion you speak off, well, Jim taught him how to do that.Listen to his recording pre Bat Out of Hell, he was nowehre near the calibre of performer that Steinman moulded him into.
It's true that nobody can truly understand how to sing a song as well as the composer but Meat Loaf has a much greater ability to convey emotions. If you listen to Steinman's high notes, he's just focusing on hitting the notes and can't actually portray much emotion behind them.
I love Steinman as a composer but there was a reason he chose Meat Loaf to sing his songs for him.
@metalmilitia4641 Jim takes an easy way out by saying this. Of course it's easier to say "the album was meant for that other guy to sing anyway" rather than to tour, sing and promote the album on his own, and carry the star status burden on his own shoulders.
@torchwood11 Much better than Meat, if you ask me. When Meat sings Jim's song, he sounds like a dumb redneck. Jim's an intellectual, and he sounds as such. He brings brains into his vocals, as well as raw passion. A really good singer, just like Bob Dylan, Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen. Meat Loaf doesn't even come close.
Hmm, not sure if I'd go that far. I really do love Meat, the best live performer working today in my opinion, but in an ideal world, Jim would have still wrote Bat for Meat and then covered some of the songs from it on his later solo albums. The fact that Jim only had one solo album is a travesty in my opinion.
@MeatTycoonDevious Bob Dylan Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen all blow at singing. No disrespect, but their voices, like Steinman's, are just not good. Steinman can't even hit the notes on this, and it's HIS OWN SONG. I'm sorry, I realize this is an opinion--I can't prove you wrong--but I simply don't know how anybody could think those guys sing well. Whatever. Have a good life.
@Sjack90 Plenty of people do like those guys' singing, Bob being my personal favorite, mainly due to his phrasing, rough texture and the overall feeling of cynicism that he projects.
Also, Tom's and Leo's voices make a lot of ladies' vaginas tingle. Good for album sales.
On the other hand, Whitney Houston and Celine Dion such some big juicy sweaty elephant balls, and blow bubbles while doing so.
@MeatTycoonDevious He wanted a heroic voice for his epic. It was his requiem he was the orcastrator of a whole new genre and wanted the world to know. He needed someone to reflect the music in his mind, he knew his wasn't enough to do so, but he didn't like Meat Loaf getting the glory for it but he got over in BOOH 2.
@MeatTycoonDevious He also has two failure commercially albums because of performing on his own or having complete control. Bad for Good (failure commercially) he preformed in most songs, Pandora's Box (BIG failure commercially) even though he hired another group he had too much control over the album. The only albums he did with nothing but his music that were sucesses was with Meatloaf, Bat out of hell sucess, Dead Ringer success, Bat out of hell 2 sucess. Its in the records
@mrfivegold Yep, and Justin Bieber's World 2.0 went platinum in both Australia and US, which I guess makes it better than any Tom Waits record. :-/
Firstly, I couldn't give two shits about sales. Secondly, Bad For Good went platinum, and could do much better if Jim at least toured for it. Thirdly, it suffered from having to live up to Bat Out Of Hell. If Jim sang himself from the beginning, it wouldn't be an issue.
@MeatTycoonDevious Would you honestly say that you would prefer that the world never had BOOH with a Meat Loaf vocal but just Jimmy's? Do you honestly think it would still be a success? And Bad for Good only went Platinum after over five years in the UK.
@mrfivegold Absolutely, I would prefer BooH with Jim singing alone (with Ellen on one song). As for success - it probably wouldn't be the mega-seller that it was, but it would still sell pretty well, and Jim wouldn't be trapped in his position of a power ballad writer for hire, and could go on to make more intellectually challenging stuff - like his 1969 Dream Engine musical (my favorite of his works).
@MeatTycoonDevious Jim is more than a writer for hire he wrote plays even today that have marked him beyond the station of Meat Loafs partner. Just because he choose to get a singer he wanted to represent his work doesn't make that stuff bad. He is just suited for some things, I mean would you prefer he sing the major roles in Dance of the Vampires instead of just writing it and leaving it to people who can do his work justice?
@mrfivegold Again, Jim's post-BooH stuff, including theater, wasn't nearly as intellectually challenging as The Dream Engine, and the music sounded like he had to fit in with the expectations he created with BooH - basically, Spector/Springsteen meet Broadway.
Also, Jim kicked ass as Bhaal in The Dream Engine, but I doubt he'd make a good Krolock. He was too fat by that time. :-D
@MeatTycoonDevious That is the translation. Dance of the Vampires is the english version. Listen if you like Steinman fine. But Meat Loaf IS a better singer. If you want just listen to Steinman sing and don't bother listening to Meat Loaf if thats the way you want it.
@MeatTycoonDevious Thats Meat Loaf. You know just because Jim decided to audition for a lead singer doesn't make his work with Meat Loaf any less than this, and furthermore his breaks to often on this demo.
@MeatTycoonDevious Alright let me try and explain why he choose a different vocalist. First off he practices Wagnerian Rock its a theatrical/opera type of music that requires someone with a deep strong voice. Which was why he worked well with Bonnie Tyler and Meat Loaf they have deep powerful voices that he can work with without them he has to go for a country rock type of style like in his other demo Crying out loud which doesn't suit his tastes. He just needs for backup.
@mrfivegold Yeah, I've read Jim's explanations. They sound like unconvincing excuses to me.
Jim's voice is much deeper than Meat's, or those of majority of his male singers - sans Steve Barton, obviously.
"Wagnerian rock" is really reaching it. Spectorian would be more proper, but I also loved it when Jim used good old blues rock with a Weill twist, like he did in The Dream Engine. I agree that country rock doesn't suit him much.
@MeatTycoonDevious Well its not full blown cancer he has this infection disease in his throat that if not treated will give him cancer. He posted it on his facebook last year november 2010. He is having it treated that is why he hasn't worked on his BOOH musical. However he posted this month that come 2012-2013 it should be in full blown production. He is just putting together the script now and looking for the right starting cast.
der gute alte jim, super wie immer. danke an allen J.S. fans die das ermöglichen!!!!
Truckertheo 1 month ago
Great song! Side note, did anyone notice "rape" is in the URL?
Superninja5125 5 months ago 5
No emotion? This argument facinates me with Steinman. Jim wrote this song, it comes from a play he wrote, he understands the emotion that the song needs and portrays wonderfully, better then Meat did in my opinion. Alot of the emotion you speak off, well, Jim taught him how to do that.Listen to his recording pre Bat Out of Hell, he was nowehre near the calibre of performer that Steinman moulded him into.
torchwood11 5 months ago
It's true that nobody can truly understand how to sing a song as well as the composer but Meat Loaf has a much greater ability to convey emotions. If you listen to Steinman's high notes, he's just focusing on hitting the notes and can't actually portray much emotion behind them.
I love Steinman as a composer but there was a reason he chose Meat Loaf to sing his songs for him.
TheTomReid 5 months ago
@TheTomReid It's not about high notes, it's that Jim's voice on the whole is much deeper than Meat's. Personally, I prefer deep voices.
MeatTycoonDevious 4 months ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Yeah Jim is good but Bat was only meant for Meat, Jim even says so
metalmilitia4641 6 months ago
@metalmilitia4641 Jim takes an easy way out by saying this. Of course it's easier to say "the album was meant for that other guy to sing anyway" rather than to tour, sing and promote the album on his own, and carry the star status burden on his own shoulders.
MeatTycoonDevious 6 months ago
Holy.....This is fantastic !!!
Lisae6175 7 months ago
Gee, I love Jim's vocals. It sucks he didn't make Bat Out Of Hell with his own vocals.
MeatTycoonDevious 7 months ago 3
@MeatTycoonDevious Yes Jim is good, but BOH wouldn't have been as good as it was without Meatloaf singing it...
MilestoneRoad 6 months ago
@MilestoneRoad Yep, it would be better. :-)
MeatTycoonDevious 6 months ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Good lord I'm glad I found someone who thinks the same as me. Jim's a fantastic singer, as good as Meat in my opinion
torchwood11 6 months ago
@torchwood11 Much better than Meat, if you ask me. When Meat sings Jim's song, he sounds like a dumb redneck. Jim's an intellectual, and he sounds as such. He brings brains into his vocals, as well as raw passion. A really good singer, just like Bob Dylan, Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen. Meat Loaf doesn't even come close.
MeatTycoonDevious 6 months ago
@MeatTycoonDevious
Hmm, not sure if I'd go that far. I really do love Meat, the best live performer working today in my opinion, but in an ideal world, Jim would have still wrote Bat for Meat and then covered some of the songs from it on his later solo albums. The fact that Jim only had one solo album is a travesty in my opinion.
torchwood11 6 months ago
@torchwood11 Best live performer working today? Probably Mike Patton for me.
MeatTycoonDevious 6 months ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Bob Dylan Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen all blow at singing. No disrespect, but their voices, like Steinman's, are just not good. Steinman can't even hit the notes on this, and it's HIS OWN SONG. I'm sorry, I realize this is an opinion--I can't prove you wrong--but I simply don't know how anybody could think those guys sing well. Whatever. Have a good life.
Sjack90 4 months ago
@Sjack90 Plenty of people do like those guys' singing, Bob being my personal favorite, mainly due to his phrasing, rough texture and the overall feeling of cynicism that he projects.
Also, Tom's and Leo's voices make a lot of ladies' vaginas tingle. Good for album sales.
On the other hand, Whitney Houston and Celine Dion such some big juicy sweaty elephant balls, and blow bubbles while doing so.
Have a good one, you too. :-)
MeatTycoonDevious 4 months ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Meatloaf is a world class vocalist.
Makingnewnamesisdumb 3 months ago
@Makingnewnamesisdumb More like a world class ass.
MeatTycoonDevious 3 months ago
@MeatTycoonDevious What makes you say that? I mean, his ass is okay I guess...
Makingnewnamesisdumb 3 months ago
@MeatTycoonDevious He wanted a heroic voice for his epic. It was his requiem he was the orcastrator of a whole new genre and wanted the world to know. He needed someone to reflect the music in his mind, he knew his wasn't enough to do so, but he didn't like Meat Loaf getting the glory for it but he got over in BOOH 2.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold That's just a lame excuse Jim gives for not performing his music on his own.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious He also has two failure commercially albums because of performing on his own or having complete control. Bad for Good (failure commercially) he preformed in most songs, Pandora's Box (BIG failure commercially) even though he hired another group he had too much control over the album. The only albums he did with nothing but his music that were sucesses was with Meatloaf, Bat out of hell sucess, Dead Ringer success, Bat out of hell 2 sucess. Its in the records
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Yep, and Justin Bieber's World 2.0 went platinum in both Australia and US, which I guess makes it better than any Tom Waits record. :-/
Firstly, I couldn't give two shits about sales. Secondly, Bad For Good went platinum, and could do much better if Jim at least toured for it. Thirdly, it suffered from having to live up to Bat Out Of Hell. If Jim sang himself from the beginning, it wouldn't be an issue.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Would you honestly say that you would prefer that the world never had BOOH with a Meat Loaf vocal but just Jimmy's? Do you honestly think it would still be a success? And Bad for Good only went Platinum after over five years in the UK.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Absolutely, I would prefer BooH with Jim singing alone (with Ellen on one song). As for success - it probably wouldn't be the mega-seller that it was, but it would still sell pretty well, and Jim wouldn't be trapped in his position of a power ballad writer for hire, and could go on to make more intellectually challenging stuff - like his 1969 Dream Engine musical (my favorite of his works).
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Jim is more than a writer for hire he wrote plays even today that have marked him beyond the station of Meat Loafs partner. Just because he choose to get a singer he wanted to represent his work doesn't make that stuff bad. He is just suited for some things, I mean would you prefer he sing the major roles in Dance of the Vampires instead of just writing it and leaving it to people who can do his work justice?
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Again, Jim's post-BooH stuff, including theater, wasn't nearly as intellectually challenging as The Dream Engine, and the music sounded like he had to fit in with the expectations he created with BooH - basically, Spector/Springsteen meet Broadway.
Also, Jim kicked ass as Bhaal in The Dream Engine, but I doubt he'd make a good Krolock. He was too fat by that time. :-D
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Dance of the Vampires was made in 1997 after BOOH 2. And it was a BIG hit.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold That's Tanz. Dance was that "wonderful" version with Mikey Crawford from a few years later. :-D
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious That is the translation. Dance of the Vampires is the english version. Listen if you like Steinman fine. But Meat Loaf IS a better singer. If you want just listen to Steinman sing and don't bother listening to Meat Loaf if thats the way you want it.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Nobody IS a better singer than anybody else. Meat is just the singer YOU like more. Notice the subtle difference? :-)
When I feel like listening to Jim, I'll listen to Jim, and when I feel like listening to Meat, I'll listen to Meat.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Thats Meat Loaf. You know just because Jim decided to audition for a lead singer doesn't make his work with Meat Loaf any less than this, and furthermore his breaks to often on this demo.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold That's Meat Loaf? I thought it was Jim singing on this song here. :-/
I didn't notice any breaking, probably because I don't care if it happens. It gives the singing more character.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious You said Meat, call him Meat Loaf infidel. And no thats not character that flaws.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Meat Loaf is an infidel?
Flaws are a part of character.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Character flaws, yup Jims voice is full of them character flaws, you smart ass.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold He has his share of flaws, but they work for him.
Yep, my ass is pretty smart, apart from its numerous other positive qualities, thank you very much. :-)
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious He is better at monolgues. Like "I've been dreaming up a storm lately".
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Yep, he's a good actor as well. And a kickass piano player.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious I wonder why he wasn't the Pianist on Pray Lewd on the album Pandoras Box?
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold I wonder why he wasn't the pianist for all of the songs on all of his albums, but then again I wonder the same about his singing. :-)
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Alright let me try and explain why he choose a different vocalist. First off he practices Wagnerian Rock its a theatrical/opera type of music that requires someone with a deep strong voice. Which was why he worked well with Bonnie Tyler and Meat Loaf they have deep powerful voices that he can work with without them he has to go for a country rock type of style like in his other demo Crying out loud which doesn't suit his tastes. He just needs for backup.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Yeah, I've read Jim's explanations. They sound like unconvincing excuses to me.
Jim's voice is much deeper than Meat's, or those of majority of his male singers - sans Steve Barton, obviously.
"Wagnerian rock" is really reaching it. Spectorian would be more proper, but I also loved it when Jim used good old blues rock with a Weill twist, like he did in The Dream Engine. I agree that country rock doesn't suit him much.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Well there is nothing he can do now about vocals he has throat cancer you know.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Jim has throat cancer? News to me.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Jim has throat cancer? News to me.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious Well its not full blown cancer he has this infection disease in his throat that if not treated will give him cancer. He posted it on his facebook last year november 2010. He is having it treated that is why he hasn't worked on his BOOH musical. However he posted this month that come 2012-2013 it should be in full blown production. He is just putting together the script now and looking for the right starting cast.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold Good to know it's moving. Can you PM me his Facebook profile, by the way? I heard about it before, can't find it.
MeatTycoonDevious 1 month ago
@MeatTycoonDevious I sent you the link to his facebook page.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
@mrfivegold I have Jim as a friend on Facebook and I don't recall reading any such post....
torchwood11 1 month ago
@torchwood11 You're right I read that from his fan page my mistake.
mrfivegold 1 month ago
Apart from the obvious "country twang", this is a nice version.
z0dit 9 months ago