Thanks for this video. Ephesians2:3-5\ 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. God's goodness leads us to repentance. God bless.
You have confused the synedoche where a part is used to represent the whole (all hands on deck) with the metonym where an object closely associated with something is used for it (suits for business man.) The real thing that concerns me, as when similar arguments are used by the Watchtower, is that you are setting up a situation where it is impossible for the idea you disbelieve to be found or expressed in the Bible. Just HOW would it have to be written for you to believe God hates sinners?
"our theology" is the Bible, and I have no problem with it at all. You also have to ask yourself why God supposedly hated Esau..was it because Esau was a sinner? No, we are all sinners. Esau rejected his birthright, and thereby changed God's plans for the Messiah being in his line. God subsequently rejected Esau, and that is what it means by hated. If you hate someone, you will do whatever you can to destroy them; you will see to it that they are ruined. Is this our God? No. See John 3:16
It doesn't say God hated Esau's actions. It says He hated Esau. Tell me, does this fit your image of God:
"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.
1 Samuel 15:3
God is telling Israel to Kill babies? To be honest, I do have a problem with these passages. They are hard to accept. But am I supposed to pretend they don't exist for my comfort?
Being that God blessed Esau and gave him and his people territory, and even forbid the Israelites from fighting the Edomites during the Exodus, did he REALLY hate Esau?
Or by hate does it mean that he loved Esau less than Jacob? Does Christ literally mean that we have to hate our family before we can be worthy of him? Surely not.
No, God chose Jacob to have the birthright and blessing, it's not talking about their eternal salvation or damnation.
And Malachi is clearly refering to the nations of Esau and Jacob when he says that.
God commanding the children to be slain was actually merciful. Better that they should die in their innocence, and be with Him in heaven, than live to maturity and go to hell for worshipping false gods.
Were the infants in Sodom and Gommorah innocent? Remember, God told Abraham if there were ANY rightous in the city He would not destroy it for there sake. According to your theology God should not have destryed those cities.
What about the Noahchin flood? Was God being "merciful" to the ifants upon the earth in Noah's day.
I'm not saying your wrong, but your argument is not convincing.
The Sodomites were evil and they refused to heed God and His warnings. I believe that God has in some cases ordered the death of babies because it shows His sovereignty over the world, and it shows the devastating effect sin has on all, not just the ones who directly commit it. The consequences of sin is death, and that includes not only people, but the other creatures on the world. It still does not prove that God hates sinners, because there are just as many sinners that He has given mercy to
Innocent and righteous are not the same thing. Being righteous is choosing to obey God and follow his will and his commandments. A child cannot do that because he lacks the intelligence to understand. He is innocent by virtue of that state of grace. Paul talked about how he was alive once without the law, then the commandment came and he died.
Yes, God was being merciful because had they grew up and lived in sin and rebellion, they would have went to hell. So God spared them that fate.
if it wasn't Esau's actions that God hated, did God hate Esau before he sinned? No. God had chosen Esau for the royal line of the Messiah to come through, & Esau jerked God around, by selling his birthright. God obviously didn't choose arbitrarily hate Esau, because it only happened after Esau sinned, so unless you would say that God "ordained" Esau to sin and then hated him for doing what he was forced to do, you will have no choice but to admit that it was Esau's sin that God hated
Yet, Saint James says that no man can say that God tempted him because he tempts no man.
God can ordain something according to his forknowledge of what people will do. Compatibilism is a farce, and a poor attempt at a Calvinist who tries to give man some responsibility for the actions he was predetermined to do. He couldn't have done otherwise, so God is still guilty. He caused the man to have those desires and then commit the sin.
a hyper Calvinist is one who moves beyond the simple teachings of John Calvin and makes strange and wild assertions based on misunderstandings of both Calvin's teachings, and the Bible. Examples are "God hates fags", "God hates the sinner", "God is pleased by sending people to hell", God implants faith into the elect", and the ever popular excuse that states that John 3:16 is written only to the elect. If God loves only the elect, then by what standard does He choose to do this?
You can't just take a single verse out of God's word and create an entire doctrine or dogma, it has to be studied and prayed out. The answer is yes, according to ONE verse, God hates sinners, but according to the entirety of the Bible, He does not. That's the problem with man's traditions, they don't seek truth, just convenient excuses to ratify their preconceived notions and lend credence to their idealism. That is sloppy and lazy theology. BTW, by John 3:16, does God love all mankind?
@apologeticsman Sloppy and Lazy theology? You have given no exegetical defense on your position? The reason you cannot accept God as hating anyone is because of your tradition. Insofar as John 3:16 what you need to prove is that the word "world" means evry person head for head. In that very same verse it says that "Only the ones who believe" will inherit eternal life. Sounds limited in scope to me as I study it?
@October31st1517 Yes, John 3:16 does say God loves every person in the world, and if that verse were not enough, there are dozens more that say the same thing in different ways. You are taking two or 3 verse out of context and creating a ludicrous doctrine, all to further YOUR personal hatred of certain kinds of sinners. That's how people feel justified in standing outside of Mormon temples and soldier's funerals and condemning people, instead of reaching out to them and begging them to repent
does God hate feet? Hands? Lips? Do you hate your Father and mother as Jesus commanded to do? You have to take things in the context in which they are written, & in the context of the entirety of the Bible, & most importantly you have to have spiritual discernment, or you will preach a false gospel, which I fear is what you are doing. You have these strange people who live in the hills and mountains that take a verse about believers handling serpents, and they run with it-zeal without knowledge
Dang. You really explained it very nicely.
nintendo768 1 day ago
Thanks for this video. Ephesians2:3-5\ 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. God's goodness leads us to repentance. God bless.
24kevinB 3 days ago
You have confused the synedoche where a part is used to represent the whole (all hands on deck) with the metonym where an object closely associated with something is used for it (suits for business man.) The real thing that concerns me, as when similar arguments are used by the Watchtower, is that you are setting up a situation where it is impossible for the idea you disbelieve to be found or expressed in the Bible. Just HOW would it have to be written for you to believe God hates sinners?
Blogrich55 2 years ago
Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.
Romans 9:13
"The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;You hate all workers of iniquity."
Psalm 5:5
You just find it hard to believe that God can hate an individual. Your problem is not with our theology but with the bible.
October31st1517 2 years ago
"our theology" is the Bible, and I have no problem with it at all. You also have to ask yourself why God supposedly hated Esau..was it because Esau was a sinner? No, we are all sinners. Esau rejected his birthright, and thereby changed God's plans for the Messiah being in his line. God subsequently rejected Esau, and that is what it means by hated. If you hate someone, you will do whatever you can to destroy them; you will see to it that they are ruined. Is this our God? No. See John 3:16
apologeticsman 2 years ago
It doesn't say God hated Esau's actions. It says He hated Esau. Tell me, does this fit your image of God:
"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.
1 Samuel 15:3
God is telling Israel to Kill babies? To be honest, I do have a problem with these passages. They are hard to accept. But am I supposed to pretend they don't exist for my comfort?
October31st1517 2 years ago
Being that God blessed Esau and gave him and his people territory, and even forbid the Israelites from fighting the Edomites during the Exodus, did he REALLY hate Esau?
Or by hate does it mean that he loved Esau less than Jacob? Does Christ literally mean that we have to hate our family before we can be worthy of him? Surely not.
No, God chose Jacob to have the birthright and blessing, it's not talking about their eternal salvation or damnation.
It's also a quote from Malachi.
GuardianofTwilight 2 years ago
And Malachi is clearly refering to the nations of Esau and Jacob when he says that.
God commanding the children to be slain was actually merciful. Better that they should die in their innocence, and be with Him in heaven, than live to maturity and go to hell for worshipping false gods.
GuardianofTwilight 2 years ago
Were the infants in Sodom and Gommorah innocent? Remember, God told Abraham if there were ANY rightous in the city He would not destroy it for there sake. According to your theology God should not have destryed those cities.
What about the Noahchin flood? Was God being "merciful" to the ifants upon the earth in Noah's day.
I'm not saying your wrong, but your argument is not convincing.
October31st1517 2 years ago
The Sodomites were evil and they refused to heed God and His warnings. I believe that God has in some cases ordered the death of babies because it shows His sovereignty over the world, and it shows the devastating effect sin has on all, not just the ones who directly commit it. The consequences of sin is death, and that includes not only people, but the other creatures on the world. It still does not prove that God hates sinners, because there are just as many sinners that He has given mercy to
apologeticsman 2 years ago
Innocent and righteous are not the same thing. Being righteous is choosing to obey God and follow his will and his commandments. A child cannot do that because he lacks the intelligence to understand. He is innocent by virtue of that state of grace. Paul talked about how he was alive once without the law, then the commandment came and he died.
Yes, God was being merciful because had they grew up and lived in sin and rebellion, they would have went to hell. So God spared them that fate.
GuardianofTwilight 2 years ago
if it wasn't Esau's actions that God hated, did God hate Esau before he sinned? No. God had chosen Esau for the royal line of the Messiah to come through, & Esau jerked God around, by selling his birthright. God obviously didn't choose arbitrarily hate Esau, because it only happened after Esau sinned, so unless you would say that God "ordained" Esau to sin and then hated him for doing what he was forced to do, you will have no choice but to admit that it was Esau's sin that God hated
apologeticsman 2 years ago
Yes God does ordain bad things to happen. (Acts 17:26) But he cannot be held responsible for does not commit these acts. For example:
God has ordained the Cow to eat the grass. But can you blame God for eating the grass?
God has ordained the lion to kill the gazel. But can you blame God for killing the gazel?
This is called compatiblism. God does ordain evil acts, but he cannot be held responsible because He does not commit these acts.
October31st1517 2 years ago
Yet, Saint James says that no man can say that God tempted him because he tempts no man.
God can ordain something according to his forknowledge of what people will do. Compatibilism is a farce, and a poor attempt at a Calvinist who tries to give man some responsibility for the actions he was predetermined to do. He couldn't have done otherwise, so God is still guilty. He caused the man to have those desires and then commit the sin.
GuardianofTwilight 2 years ago
a hyper Calvinist is one who moves beyond the simple teachings of John Calvin and makes strange and wild assertions based on misunderstandings of both Calvin's teachings, and the Bible. Examples are "God hates fags", "God hates the sinner", "God is pleased by sending people to hell", God implants faith into the elect", and the ever popular excuse that states that John 3:16 is written only to the elect. If God loves only the elect, then by what standard does He choose to do this?
apologeticsman 2 years ago
Then ZKueker88 does not fit this mold. You look like a very smart & sincere individual. Think before you write.
October31st1517 2 years ago
I don't even know who ZKueker88 is.
apologeticsman 2 years ago
@October31st1517 So, how does it feel to be hated by God?
apologeticsman 6 months ago
@apologeticsman I will be more than happy to answer once you have answered mine. According to the above verses, does God love everybody?
October31st1517 6 months ago
You can't just take a single verse out of God's word and create an entire doctrine or dogma, it has to be studied and prayed out. The answer is yes, according to ONE verse, God hates sinners, but according to the entirety of the Bible, He does not. That's the problem with man's traditions, they don't seek truth, just convenient excuses to ratify their preconceived notions and lend credence to their idealism. That is sloppy and lazy theology. BTW, by John 3:16, does God love all mankind?
apologeticsman 6 months ago
@apologeticsman Sloppy and Lazy theology? You have given no exegetical defense on your position? The reason you cannot accept God as hating anyone is because of your tradition. Insofar as John 3:16 what you need to prove is that the word "world" means evry person head for head. In that very same verse it says that "Only the ones who believe" will inherit eternal life. Sounds limited in scope to me as I study it?
October31st1517 6 months ago
@October31st1517 Yes, John 3:16 does say God loves every person in the world, and if that verse were not enough, there are dozens more that say the same thing in different ways. You are taking two or 3 verse out of context and creating a ludicrous doctrine, all to further YOUR personal hatred of certain kinds of sinners. That's how people feel justified in standing outside of Mormon temples and soldier's funerals and condemning people, instead of reaching out to them and begging them to repent
apologeticsman 6 months ago
does God hate feet? Hands? Lips? Do you hate your Father and mother as Jesus commanded to do? You have to take things in the context in which they are written, & in the context of the entirety of the Bible, & most importantly you have to have spiritual discernment, or you will preach a false gospel, which I fear is what you are doing. You have these strange people who live in the hills and mountains that take a verse about believers handling serpents, and they run with it-zeal without knowledge
apologeticsman 6 months ago
He hates the sins not the sinners. simple.
calimissionary777 2 years ago