Cartoon HOW THE PROP 8 STOLE MARRIAGE

[Smexii18]

its Whoville not Whosville

[138tonsutube]

thax 4 the pictures it really helped me better under stand all about the gay8

[Kittle8777]

i love this vidio  new franid

[toonycartoons]

Thanks friend. Have you seen all my videos yet. What do you think?

[aceofspades1020]

Late, poorly drawn, poorly animated, poorly edited, poorly executed, this is a piece of shit. I could not stand to watch halfway through this thing. It seems that you weren't really striking any thoughtful points, the whole thing just wasn't funny.

[toonycartoons]

What do you mean by late?

By poorly edited did you mean the pacing of the piece or the cuts?

Thank you for your opinion. It helps me grow as an artist.

[aceofspades1020]

I mean the prop was passed two months before this was made, it came a little late when few people still care. The whole vid went a little slow. It seemed to take forever for the guy to go between sentences, yet he never said anything thoughtful. The whole uptight trophy was lame beyond recognition, and all you did wasn't funny. Especially the "boys kissing" part, that was so stupid. Why did you even make the gays demented colorful demon-things?

[hyraxproductions]

Incase you didn't understand, this cartoon was a political satire about the religious right who, in an attempt to alleviate the drudgery of their self-imposed misery, told lies to the public in order to undermine the civil rights of others. And satire, incase you didn't know, because of its timely nature, favors message over aesthetic form. And besides, have you ever made a cartoon by yourself? Not as easy as it looks. It sounds like you insulted it just because you disagree with the message.

[brokenskyy]

This cartoon is entertaining and true.

[toonycartoons]

What was your favorite part?

[vicelar]

you must be living in a a cartoon

[toonycartoons]

Why do you think that?

[vicelar]

I was referring to brokensky who said your cartoon was entertaining and true, while I have to admit it is entertaining I feel if he thinks that is truth then he must be living in a cartoon. while it may hold some truth to you, everything I see in support of this issue finds some way to distort reality, claiming it's about hate, while I"m sorry you all feel that way and I know there are some out there that do feel that way, most do not.

[vicelar]

its what cows do, and  its also what you're little cartoon is BULLSHIT

[toonycartoons]

What about the cartoons do you think is bullshit?

[vicelar]

BULLSHIT

[toonycartoons]

What is Bullshit?

[hyraxproductions]

Well good job, you win in the lofty attitude contest. I still don't understand where your deep-seated hatred comes from. It seems more like resentment, or a naked aggression. It seems you're not really interested in a reasoned solution, but rather to feel superior to your opponents. I mean, do you make a lot of friends with this attitude? Wait, I know you don't want "amoral" friends, right? Well, your approach is completely misanthropic, (read jerk). As far as being in the majority

[hyraxproductions]

innovation always starts off unpopular. When slavery was first abolished there were people just like you rallying to support it. It takes a small group of innovators to affect change. I'm confident that history will eventually find you as the oppressor of yesteryear, like the Nazis. I know in principle, I am right. I prefer to be humane than cartoonishly cruel. Then again I do believe that people who weave on the freeway should be dragged out of their cars and shot. Arrogant bastards.

[hyraxproductions]

And btw, my comparisons are completely valid. Leviticus was written during the stone age. All other areas of human knowledge have updated. It's time for religion to take a hint. And the new testament is a literary construct based on a pagan story that is an allegory for the solar calendar. Both were written before the invention of science. The interesting thing is that not all religious groups even share your views. It's very clear that you prefer rules to people.

[jxwhit8]

The laws of the Old Testament were made obsolete by the ATonement of Christ. Mosaic laws were discontinued with His sacrifice. Homosexuality is disdained in the old and the new testament, the Qu'ran, Bhudism and Hinduism and every other culture in the world (minus the social liberal culture).

[hyraxproductions]

If you're going to drop Christ's name, then acknowledge what he was all about: compassion. It shocks me how many people are ready to condemn in his name when that's the opposite of what he was about: Golden rule, he who has not sinned cast the first stone, etc. Btw, the Qu'ran says to kill non-believers just about on every page. Now do you think that's a good place to get sound advice on morality? I won't deny there's wisdom in the Bible, but it's wisdom from an age long past.

[jxwhit8]

Christ hates the sin, but loves the sinner. When the prostitute (Mary) was to be stoned to death, he told the multitude that he that was without sin to cast the first stone.  The multitude left in shame and he told the prostitute to go and "sin no more". She sinned no more. As Christians, we have followed Christ's example. Hate the sin and love the sinner. Christ has asked them to go and sin no more (repent) or face the judgement of God. They are not holding up their end of the bargain.

[hyraxproductions]

ASSUMING, first of all, that Christianity is the correct religion, (which is assuming ALOT,) Sure,that makes sense for a prostitute, thief, corrupt politician, etc... but can you really ask a gay person to stop being gay? Don't you think that after centuries of being told how sinful they are, gays would have stopped choosing to be gay if that were possible? I think they're born that way. I just don't think that being gay is really a moral issue, but rather than a physiological/neurological one.

[hyraxproductions]

I mean, do you blame people with asbergers for having asbergers syndrome? Is that also sinful, to have a medical condition? Your forgetting that the fact that they were mentioned in the bible proves that they've been around FOREVER. Can something that's been around for that long be unnatural, especially considering that this behavior has been observed in animals? Maybe you can answer this question. Why is religion in America so obsessed with punishing private pleasure?

[jxwhit8]

So you are saying homosexuality is a mental and physical disorder like Asbergers? OK... I will buy that.

[hyraxproductions]

Asbergers was the first example I could think of. A better on is dyslexia, (or as Zapf Brannagan would say, "Sexlexia.") To say it's a disorder is kind of crass. The AMA de-listed homosexuality as a pathology in Remember, the idea isn't to sneer down your nose at them. That serves no one. Remember that even religion can be described as a large scale mental illness, complete with delusions... But I'll take a page out of my own book and not insist on such a view.

[hyraxproductions]

I meant to say that the AMA de-listed homosexuality as a mental Disorder in 1974 (according to wikipedia.) Rightly so, in my opinion, as it does not impair a person's cognitive abilities.

[jxwhit8]

do you think after telling people for centuries that stealing, lying, and killing is wrong... they would catch on as well?

[hyraxproductions]

You got me there, but again,those things are actions where being gay is more innate. When an person repents from crime, their life improves, they become happier. When you force a gay person to be straight, their self-esteem plummets, they get depressed because they are denying who they are inherently. Why would God do that to someone? I believe they have a purpose. I heard that in some places they were revered.

[hyraxproductions]

I should ammend this comment to say that there is also wisdom to be found in the Qu'ran. But just as in the Bible, this wisdom is intermingled with terse, rigid ideology which makes prescriptions which range from the neurotic to the psychotic, particularly in the realm of sexuality. Truth and flaws alike are exclusive to neither.

[vicelar]

DUDE YOU ARE AN IDIOT

[toonycartoons]

Who is an idiot?

[vicelar]

i was responding lyraxproductions arguments, took to time to read them and found so many of them to be so completely ridiculous just had to let him know I think he is an idiot, as for your cartoon what is bullshit about it is it is a blatant distortion of t e truth and I think you know it

[toonycartoons]

I don't know what you believe to be a distortion. Could you please elaborate so I can understand your opinion?

What specific parts do you see as distortions?

[hyraxproductions]

So, what parts of what I said were ridiculous? What were my blatant distortions of the truth? I am interested to know.

[vicelar]

I have since come to the conclusion that people on both sides of this issue myself included tend to distort the truth to some degree or other- I do not agree with the idea of same sex marriage, I do not believe that religion is some institution of hate out to deprive people of their rights- but I have to say you are entitled to your belief and I understand maybe a little of where you're coming from.

[hyraxproductions]

Bravo sir. Your comment took courage. You are to be commended. You are right, Religion is not all bad and is, in fact, a great source of joy and moral rectitude for many. And not all of them are the same. However, there are certain elements who I believe attacked the gays in order to alarm the public and consolidate their own power by manipulating their fears. That is what I take issue with, and with the way they try to dictate the destiny of other people.

[hyraxproductions]

I mean, you can believe it's a sin, and that gays are going to hell if that really what you want, (which to me, frankly, is a psychotic thing to believe,) but at least let them decide their own fate. They don't need anyone's approval to be happy. And that is where the whole hypocrisy arises in this situation. Why does that element feel they have the right to tell people whom to marry? May I please ask, sir, why do you find gay marriage offensive? What distortions do you feel we have made?

[hyraxproductions]

A baseless insult... How refreshing. So Captain Pejorative, do you have something meaningful to add to the conversation, or are you content to hurl invectives at complete strangers?

[hyraxproductions]

Well, in case you didn't understand, this cartoon was a political satire which likened the supporters of prop 8 to the Grinch, an unhappy person who, not content to endure his self-imposed misery, decided to give his life meaning by imposing his unhappiness on other people rather than taking steps to improve his life... which, in my opinion was quite dead-on. As for the production value, have you ever tried to make a cartoon by yourself? Not as easy as it looks.

[jxwhit8]

not really... I dont hate anyone. I employ gay people. I dont have to accept their immoral behavior.

[hyraxproductions]

Well thats good. That tells me that you at least respect the boundaries between public and private life. All I'm saying is, put yourself in their place. If you were gay, how would this discussion make you feel? I think the debate boils down to whether or not its a choice. Since you know some gay people, maybe you can tell it's not really a choice for them any more than being straight is a choice for you. Maybe get to know them a little... maybe you'll find they're not so different?

[hyraxproductions]

defenseless people who are doing absolutely nothing to me. It's unfortunate that have all of this hatred for them. But for all your purple-faced ranting, you're proving that I have more to fear from you than I have ever had from any gay person. Gay people don't yell at me the way you do. They don't propose laws to keep others from making the best out of their already difficult existence. It sounds like your path is the path of endless misery. It's time for a change bud. Put down the stone.

[jxwhit8]

LOL... purple faced and yelling?? YAWN.... your RANT is weak at best. I never yelled and checked the mirror for a purple face.

No.. Gay people dont yell at you I am sure.. you share their values. Ask the Marine recruiting office near Berkley or any religious group in the Castro and then you tell me who is screaming purple-faced and vandalizing property.

I assure you that I am quite calm... because my side won the arguement. Watch and see what the CA supreme court does... LOL.

[hyraxproductions]

Well, you know, Marines kill people for a living, so I'm sure it's not such a big deal to them to get yelled at by a few gays. ;)

[hyraxproductions]

To mention that gay people have never been able to get married before is... idiotic. Of course they haven't, because they have been been treated as less than human since the beginning of time. And yes, when you do it, it is a hate crime, because you are acting abusive towards a minority. Does might equal right? Why are you in such a hurry to hurt gays? What did they ever do to you? We abolished slavery, now it's time to end discrimination against gays. Or was emancipation an abuse as well?

[jxwhit8]

thank you for agreeing with me that this metaphor doesnt work, by saying that the rainbows always celebrated their marriage.

You are a typical social liberal who want special rights above and beyond the Constitution. With your arguement, we need to legitimize all perverse sexual behavior for the sake of "equal rights". Hey, why not just legitimize all immoral behavior for the sake of "equal rights". The truth is homosexuality is an immoral choice and should be restricted by the law.

[hyraxproductions]

And you are a typical right-wing conservative, who favors cruel, anti-social and illogical laws in order to preserve a fragile fantasy about how the world ought to be, punishing people for who they are rather than their actual impact on society. Tell me, I want to know. What makes homosexuality immoral? Why should it be restricted by law? Why the hell should the government spend valuable resources keeping gay people from marrying each other? Why are you so afraid of it-of them?

[jxwhit8]

thank you for making my point. I guess we shouldnt punish anybody for who they are and the immoral decisions that they make.

Morality is decided by society (that is why stealing is wrong, murder is wrong, pedophilia is wrong.... etc). Also... we study the natural order of things, like it takes a human male to mate with a human female to produce a human child. If you dont like the human gene pool protecting itself from behaviorial oddities and immorality... then you are part of the problem.

[hyraxproductions]

Give me a break... Murder is wrong because it has a victim. Stealing is wrong because it has a victim. Pedophile is wrong because it has a victim. Tell me, oh moral one, who is the victim in a homosexual relationship between two consenting adults? And furthermore, why does the gene pool need defending from couples who produce no children? I wish these could be longer... Btw, homosexuality is well documented in nature. You know what isn't? Religion. By your logic let's punish the religious

[jxwhit8]

lying is wrong, incest is wrong (even between consenting adults). We are all victims of homosexual marriage. If this perverse, unnatural, and abnormal behavior is normalized... then we will be forced by law to endure and tolerate it. This is an attack on the moral core of an individual and the children of a moral society. Most of the world (over 90%) knows that homosexuality is wrong. If you deny them their right to define morality in their society, then they are the victim.

[hyraxproductions]

It sounds like you are going well out of your way to be offended by something that has nothing to do with you. Lying is wrong, yes, incest as well, as that really does have lasting consequences. But gays have the potential to positively affect our economy and society. I still fail to see how gays are "attacking" us. I think it just makes you uncomfortable because you are not equipped to talk about sexuality in general. Do you even know any gay people? They make easy targets for you don't they?

[hyraxproductions]

They are never around to defend themselves because they are isolated, few in numbers, or are hiding and living in denial out of utter fear for their lives. I think that religious institutions use gays as a target in order to consolidate power for themselves by playing on the fears of regular folk. I've never had anything to fear from a gay person. Straight, pick-up-truck-driving rednecks on the other hand... Besides... you're totally trying to steal my right to define morality in my society.

[hyraxproductions]

Oh, and you made up that statistic about 90% of the world thinking homosexuality is wrong. I'm pretty sure that negative views of homosexuality increase in underdeveloped nations where poverty widespread and education scarce, and decrease in most industrialized countries where people are more educated.

[jxwhit8]

China, India, Russia, Japan, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Spain, Australia are not underdeveloped nations. Your athiestic version of morality is based on mostly European social liberalism (UK, France, Canada etc). The US is one of the most Socially Liberal countries in the world and over 70% believe Homosexual Marriage is wrong. When was the last time you explored life outside the "Castro"??

[phranquis]

China, India and brazil are all developing countries FYI!

Saudi Arabia is a really crappy example of a perfectly good place to live that just happens to not allow gay marriage.

Germany and Spain have very permissive laws in terms of gay and lesbian marriage.

Oh and our govt is the result of atheistic and deistic beliefs from the 1700s. JUST FYI!!!

[hyraxproductions]

It's true... Benjamin Franklin did say, "lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

[jxwhit8]

you have a right to define morality... unfortunately, you are in the minority and your version of morality was developed in the last 30 years, while I embrace traditionaly morality that is thousands of years old.

[hyraxproductions]

Ah, well okay, %70 isn't %90 is it now. You assume a lot. I have no loyalty to Castro. What's funny is that you claim pride in having a "1000 year old morality", but criticize me for being narrow minded for embracing progressive thinking. Kind of backward, don't you think? I mean, what you you say of a doctor who uses techniques from the bronze age? That's narrow minded, right? Sadly, you're right, I am in the minority because I refuse to take issue with these relatively

[jxwhit8]

90% of the WORLD...

and yes, your new "morality" is twisted and wrong.

I dont even know what you are saying... you are comparing moral values to archaic medicine?? your comparison is whack.

[hyraxproductions]

Uh, I'm sorry jxwhit8, but that comment is completely asinine. You think that gay people are entirely incapable of commitment? And what exactly do you think the divorce rate is amongst straight people in the U.S. anyway? It hovers around %50. And as for the vandalism and so forth- wouldn't you be mad if somebody took away your rights. Civil disobedience is called for sometimes. Or have you forgotten about a little act of vandalism called the Boston Tea Party?

[jxwhit8]

Huh?! This isnt about straight people. This is about making the metaphor work. The truth is that gays had a window of time to marry in CA that was granted through an absolute abuse of the judicial system. This video made the assumption that gays were marrying since the beginning of time and that was the way they were created. And why is it.. when you vandalize it is civil disobedience and if we vandalize it is a hate crime? Boston Tea Party was pre-USA.. now we have a Constitution.

[hyraxproductions]

To mention that gay people have never been able to get married before is... idiotic. Of course they haven't, because they have been been treated as less than human since the beginning of time. And yes, when you do it, it is a hate crime, because you are acting abusive towards a minority. Does might equal right? Why are you in such a hurry to hurt gays? What did they ever do to you? We abolished slavery, now it's time to end discrimination against gays. Or was emancipation an abuse as well?

[jxwhit8]

you forgot to have the rainbow dudes banging each other in the corn hole.

[toonycartoons]

Is that what you are interested in seeing?

[jxwhit8]

Absolutely... you cant leave the homosexuality out of it. Also, you made it appear that rainbow people were marrying each other their entire existence, and then the grinch 8 came and spoiled it for them. for your metaphor to work you would to have the rainbow people only marrying for a few months (but mostly avoiding marriage) before the Grinch 8 took it away. Also, you should of included rainbow people vandalizing property and calling others bigots and homophobes and suing everyone in court