Suicide 'bombings' are just newest method of it. Not that I'm claiming religion holds no place within the situation, but that imo, it's simply a justification for these individuals and their family. Many, regardless of religion, would have killed themselves if deemed necessary to destroy their supposed "enemy" and/or occupier. I think culture (which yes is heavily influenced by religion) is the target that should be looked at more closely.
Sam Harris is brilliant when it comes to debunking religion itself.. but, as this debate has shown me, isn't the greatest when it comes to socio-political debates. He claims that martyrdom is the biggest cause of suicide attacks yet throughout all of human history, through every war, men and women, even children, have committed suicide to kill an opposing force or enemy. From kids running up to GI's with grenades in Vietnam to Kamikaze pilots in WWII, there has and always will be suicide attacks
I am an atheist... but I hate how Harris totally missed the point. Hedges does not ignore fundamentalism... his critique is that Harris goes beyond fundamentalism to paint all religion as somehow evil or malicious. And frankly that opinion of his is completely divorced from facts. Hedges is right about the circumstances that lead people towards extremism. And extremism can impact both secular and religious movements. Too bad Harris has never understood that.
What Sam Harris fails to understand is that most Muslims would just mind their own business in peace and would keep away of violent radicalism if we, the Western powers and Israel, just left them alone instead of constantly invading and occupying their lands and interfering in their societies and internal affairs. Contrary to him, Chris Hedges seems to comprehend this perfectly.
@TheHippo18 And you lose for not knowing what the word apologist means. Understanding the CAUSE of something does not mean you think it is RIGHT. Furthermore, the facts support Hedges position when it comes to the causes of violent behaviour. I recommend you investigate the study of System Justification in social psychology. People tend to be stronger adherents to religion when they begin to feel like the secular world (the state) is losing control. look up research by john jost and aaron kay.
first off hedges isnt defending religion he is saying that it is other factors that are to blame for suicide bombers and hes kind of right. the point that i would like to make is that if we take religion away, then the reasons these bombers give for what they do can be looked at more rationally and judged without reverting to fundamentalist islam clichés. but the US and Israel dont want that because then they have no smokescreen. sam harriss won this before it started
There has been an extreme polarization in all aspects of human society over the past couple of decades. So it is disingenuous to make generalizations.
Even though I'm mostly on Harris's side, I'm always impressed by people with actual experience. Hedges travels to dangerous places, Scheer actually interviewed Bertrand Russell.
Sam should stick with just the religious apologetics. He pretty much beat Chris on his Jesus talk, everything after that, Chris pretty much served him.
It seems that Chris and Sam agree on a lot of issues and some of the issues where they disagree are just semantics and basic misunderstanding. Where they differ is that Chris believes that some of Sam's views are "bordering on racism" and he is basically taken his views too far. I think Hedges said in another debate that it was the human heart that is corruptible and basically if there was no religion there would be another system that is just as corrupt and that is caused by legit. grievances.
Sam Harris is pretty ignorant of the world and human behavior. I do not agree with Hedges religious beliefs, but Harris has a characature view of people, especially the religious, in general.
Hedges sure is an apologist for Islam, a strangely discordant view from someone who equates televangelists with fascists.
It really means nothing to speak of what the "muslim world" thinks. It's a region more factious and ideologically diverse that Europe or N. America. The most pro-American place in the world outside the US is Kurdistan. Hedges would like what he hears from a palestinian but not from a Kurd, though both are mostly muslim.
The French thought Saddam had wmd also. You can claim they were right for not supporting the invasion, but not that they were right for something they didn't believe.
Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.
Islam isn't a race. And its adherents consider it universal. They would prefer that everyone believe it and practice it. So you're statement is on par with claiming "Not liking falafels is racims."
Hedges' possition ignores cases such as when dispair and desire for survival leads Muslim people to support US foreign policy, i.e. the Kurds, Bosnians, and Libyans, not to mention Kuwaities.
Does anyone dare ask him if that is less forgivable than martyrdom?
The 'moderator' wasn't really moderating. He was offering his own opinion, ideas and attacking arguments posed by both sides. It felt like there was some bias, but regardless, a moderator shouldn't be speaking that much. As a person with integrity, he's fine, but a poor moderator if that was his role.
@charlesfrith Have you read his books? Was it not extremely clear that the debate was overtaken, by all three men, by examples of the middle east? They were specifically discussing the middle east and why they think the problems are occurring. it was one example, for both if them. you either didn't watch it, or don't understand it:
I find it strange that people are complaining about the non-impartiality of the moderator, its not like he used his power as moderator to gang up on Harris, in fact he gave him far more time than Hedges because of his non-impartiality, which actually hurt Hedges. I sympathise deeply with both of these men, on some issues i agree more with Hedges, on some issues i agree more with Harris i can't see how anyone could say Hedges or Harris lost this debate
People commenting should remember that this is not a football match, it's an intellectual debate. It's not as if one side is "right" and the other one is "wrong". Both had some perfectly strong and insightful arguments, as well as some crappy ones. I agree with Sam when he says that religious teachings are irrational, oppressive, a fueling factor to violence etc., and Chris explained very well that they are not the fundamental cause. I'm really glad to have watched these two wise men discuss.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Sam Harris can't make up his mind whether to be a comedian or outraged atheist. On this alone he's confused about his future but much more pernicious is his intolerance for an Islam for which he can justify a never ending round of depleted Uranium bombing despite Vietnam, El Salvador and the list of Christian killing from the US goes on and on. He's a lizard. An ugly racist lizard.
@charlesfrith Ah, the old "racist" accusation...since when is Islam a race? I guess you didn't hear his defense of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and dark-skinned Muslim females against the horrors of Islamic misogyny. It is interesting that Hedges never mentions the clitorectomy rate in Egypt despite his years of living there. And as Harris points out, no one suffers from Islamic cruelty more than Muslims. Sorry dude, the sooner people abandon religion the better.
@TheTorJohnson I specifically use the word racism as that is what Sam Harris is when he paints broad strokes for Islam that have never once included the largest population of Muslims on the planet in Indonesia. When Harris gets out of his armchair theoretician and qualifies that Islam is not the middle East I'll follow suit. Till then he is a racist and a disgusting apologist for neocon slaughter.
@charlesfrith Sam is very much critical of the Islamic terrorists in Indonesia, the Philippines, and Thailand. He is vocal against the Afghan/Pakistani Taliban and their acid-throwing ways, and they are are not at all Middle Eastern. His antagonism against the stoning of homosexuals and female genital mutilation of all races surely deserves praise among all civilized people. Call him all the names you want (neocon, racist, etc) but it damages your own reliability more than his reputation.
@charlesfrith You're post rationalising your defence. Drilling down because you wont have expected this I was at the Amnesty International press conference for the Southern Thailand conflict three weeks ago. It is a complete mystery. Nobody knows the claims, the aims or the reasons why the Buddhists are being beheaded except that it is in a war on terror in whose favour it is to keep the tension simmering. The absence of claims are something I specifically tackled. Indonesia is fine.
@BobMcCob I think you made a mistake then. It's you're not your. I wont call you a Moron because you need to get help. Meditate or aromatherapy or something nice and relaxing. Big kiss from me Bobby. xxxx
@BobMcCob Islam is probably the most interesting Abrahamic faith for reasons I wont burden you with. The mistake you made confusing "your" with "you're" is a common one so don't be harsh on yourself. I forgive you and sympathise with your plight too. I'm sorry things are so negative you take comfort in leaving the comments you feel obliged to leave. If your self esteem wasn't low it wouldn't be necessary but it is so I forgive you.
@charlesfrith I don't exactly know what you are trying to say, but you look like quite a dumbfuck to the outside observer. Is this actually what happens to you when you are cornered and proven wrong?
Interesting. Harris seems to largely ignore the social component that should actually be obvious. Ideologies are shaped by the socioeconomic conditions the communities in which they dominate are faced with. He only sees the egg and forgets about the chicken. If one wants to avoid social phenomena such as suicide bombing one needs to alter the destitute conditions that feed these phenomena.
Good debate. So far I agree with both speakers on different points. I however don't like the hostile tone that a lot of people have here in the comments section. This is not a gladiator fight, this is an intellectual debate. You should cheer for reason and not people.
Chris - I sympathize with his values with respect to culture, being anti-war, the role of desperation, and the rise of oligarchs. But his radical, wafer-thin minority view of religion is almost a non-sequiter in the real world.
Sam - Proves that atheism is no remedy from our baser instincts. His more recent work, where he imagines a science of morality, clearly shows he is no more rational than those he despises.
looney atheists? tut tut, atheists are not the ones who don't believe in science. The only looneys are people who believe in stuff for which THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
I agree, its not good to demonise an entire group of people - but we should be clear about what is getting demonised here; its the dogma which is deserving of demonisation. And then its just unfortunate if they follow like sheep..
@ImBackAJ20101 Why is he a bad moderator? it's the format of this debate that the moderator was given a turn to assert his own opinion and put forth questions. the questions he raised were important and most educated Americans were doubtlessly thinking some of the same things as he was, so what's the problem here?
@truthslap The moderator become the second opponent. Let's count how many times the moderator went against Chris Hedges, vs. Sam Harris, shall we? If the moderator can pick sides, then don't call it a debate.
Regardless, Sam did a good job of handling both of them.
@ImBackAJ20101 If he's going to assert his opinion as part of the debate format then naturally it'd fall one way or the other. I didn't like that he would interrupt the speakers from answering each others questions, and I didn't much appreciate his outbursts at the audience for applauding Harris, but he did ask some pertinent questions that I'm sure alot of other people were thinking, and this was just the particular format of the debate.
Wow, what a truly great debate. I love Harris and Hedges, and they did not disappoint. Religion is divisive, politics is divisive, both are used to oppress.
@ikickyonuts yeah, what a fµ€king hypocrite Scheer is, saying "I remain an agnostic on their divisions" when he was clearly putting his full support behind Hedges; where did truthdig dig him up from? probably an organisation called 'sh!te-dig'
If Islam really posed the threat that Sam claims, we would be in some real trouble--there's over a billion Muslims in the world. Sam is full of it and he should really stop making an ass of himself. I think he's forgetting a real important factor--how U.S./Western imperialism is at the root of Islamic terrorism. Hedges spent years in the Muslim world. I think it makes logical sense to listen to someone who actually has firsthand knowledge of these people.
@migs791 Or someone like Mohammed Atta? he certainly has first hand knowledge of them..as for saying 'Western imperialism is at the root of Islamic terrorism', as the HItch says "you see how far the termites have got, Ladies & Gentlemen" ..classic cretinism..
@0933062 Maybe all you nut-case atheists can team up with teh Christian Fascists and start a war on Islam. Good luck.. Religion isn't necessary to commit atrocities. The most horrific acts of terrorism were committed against the civilians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, in the name of imperialim. This act of terrorism was actually the begining of the Cold War--the U.S. wanted the unconditional surrender of the Japanase and they didn't mind killing hundreds of thousands of peeps to scare the soviets
@migs791 Nutcase? who's the one who believes in a supernatural deity for which there is no evidence WHATSOEVER. Scientific research (you know, science, that discipline whichis the antithesis of faith) has shown substantial evidence that theists have low IQs. I arrest my case.
@0933062 O.K., how about looney tunes. First, of all I have nothing against atheists or people of faith, but I definitely disagree with the extremists on both sides of the spectrum. Whether your a member of the Christian Right (fascists) or a looney atheist, it's not cool to demonize an entire group of people based on the actions of a small minority. I think ur boy Harris, at the very least owes an apology to all Muslims serving in our military.
Just Hitler in the name of his Catholicism(among other things) didn't mind burning 60 million Jew, just as the Crusades didn't mind killing 40 million people either, or the equisition, just to name a few. Yeah...Religion doesn't kill ANYBODY. Oh did I forget when God supposedly flooded the world killing all but a small family and some animals? As 0933062 said, I rest my case.
@elvebrothergenju Really, 60 million Jews. I think someone misinformed ur ass. If that was the case there wouldn't be any Jews left. Nonetheless, I totally agree w/ you that atrocities have and continue to be justified in the name of religion. However, I don't agree with the demonization of Muslims and I also disagree with the false notion that certain atheists have--if it weren't for religion, this world would be a better place. If u believe the latter, u might as well believe in fairy tales.
Humans have the ability to make errors my friend, perhaps understand that before speaking uncivilized. It was more around 6 million Jews, an unfortunate typo on my part. I never stated anything of the Muslims myself, at least not specifically. However, I do feel that had religion been stripped of it's supernatural and immoral tendencies, and used only as literature. We certainly could have avoided a great deal of misfortune, as well as made some further progression.
These fuckin policor maggots always try to pull the same bullshit with their stupid attempts at character-assassination by accusing the opponent of racism or putting words in their mouths.
Fuck them, i'm from Holland and the policor mafia destroyed this country which was once a paradise. The charities/greenwingers/policor dipshits are the new religions
Do as we say and pay this, or you're a bad person.
His comparison between nazism and islam but using it to show how ridiculous it is to leave a religion/ideology alone while the core beliefs are messed up with both of them.
One of his gems in some debates was something like:
"The moderates provide the shade under which the fundies can relax"
The first 10 mins, that chrisdude doesn't realise he's proving Sams point about how fucked up islam is, despite the fact he's trying to undermine Sam by accusing his book of not being accurate.
@ikickyonuts Totally! What the hell is he doing, overriding Sam Harris, who is one of the most eloquent, calmest and reasonable debaters on this subject out there, and siding with the hysterical Hedges, who actually accidentally stumbles on some good points whilst weaving through his rambling monologue, essentially saying that he beats any of Harris very well presented points because he met a Muslim. I've read James Hider's book "The Spiders of Allah" - does it mean he is right every time?
Everybody conveniently forgets that America hosted IRISH REPUBLICAN TERRORISTS, over a hundred years ago. They were called FENIANS, and their modus operandi was to attack British targets in Canada from the American side of the border. Their terrorist actions were called FENIAN RAIDS.
@SadieMirsade Of course. Terrorism, insurgency, guerilla warfare are battlefield tactics not an ideology. Waging a war against battlefield tactics (War on terror) is absolutely idiotic. Any ideology can use insurgency tactics including religious fanatics. Battlefield tactics are ideology neutral.
Notice how every time Harris gets a clap it's because of something he said that was thoughtful, Hedges gets a clap for saying what everyone already knew "we shouldn't be bombing the middle east " APPLAUSE...please
Part of the problem with Harris's response is that he fails to distinguish between cause and motive in the case of suicide bombing conducted in the name of religion. Poverty is sometimes, but not always, a causal factor; political grievances and its attendant objectives are almost always a causal AND motivating factor. A particular kind of religious logic is often a motivating factor. But causes are more important than motives. We should work to remove the causative factors for terrorism.
Scheer is not a participant. He is the moderator. If wanted to participate, he should have put himself in the discussion. His intervention is detrimental to the conservational flow of these passionate speakers.
These guys are both terrific in some of their points but they just talked past each other too much, and as I see their squabbles continue that sort of incommensurability is maintained and heightened in a way.
Its a shame sam harris has to justify himself against religion at all, his logical thinking could be used to further society rather than giving religion any time of day
Someone in the audience had to yell out "you're the moderator", LOL
Harris vs Hedges & the moderator: someone needs to show Sam's opponents here footage of jubilation in the Muslim world after 911. Search YouTube: 'celebrating 911'
These two delusional jerks claim 911 was condemned in the Muslim world (when they weren't blaming the Jews).
What a lie and what a fantastic insult to all who were murdered!
The problem I have with Harris is the way he makes so makes so many reductio ad absurdum jokes that he ends up coming off as disrespectful sometimes. However, he had some good arguments that seemed to voice authentic ethical concerns.
Harris seems to completely block out and ignore the impact that US foreign policy has had on the Arab world and for this reason they are just talking past one another in most of the discussion.
@shallbeagain They do really seem to be talking past one another. Sam does not seem to understand that the horrendous policy, atrocities, and support for dictatorships are driving the hostility and violence. Religion may provoke some irrational and violent behavior but those extreme views and the unrest are much more likely driven by despair from legitimate grievances.
It takes hold at certain moments mr. moderator because thats how Islam is. When they are weak numerically and militarily they stay silent, but when they are not they jump to the attack.
Fucking lefties are gonna kill us all with their tolerance to the intolerant. They are ignoring Islam at their own peril. Whats with this new politically correct way to view Islam and Islam only? Fuck that! They are just like any other religion which is opened to criticism and insult.
Whats with these self-loathing people other debater + moderator? I guess all that i have read about them is true. They always have to find blame in their own camps because to do otherwise is racist and bigoted. I'm sick and tired of this Western guilt bullshit! Has it ever occured to these people that our side and ideas (other than not being perfect) is better than theirs? This ability to self-criticize is good to a degree, but you will never find this in the Muslim world at least in this extent
@44warjunkie I'm wasting my breath but has it occurred to you in your simplistic world to consider the real drivers of hostility? The US has taken the lead in decades of exploitation of the region for hegemonic control of resources, through war and propping of corrupt dictators. Our terrorism has killed 100's of thousands, driving up their terrorist ranks. Neither is legit. Not about guilt, it's about reality. Read what our victims say then imagine yourself in their place. Elementary morality.
@Simbelmyne13 You serious? You think the U.S invented the rules of “how to usurp and exploit other people’s lands”? This has been going on since the creation of our species. Nothing new here, if the U.S didn't do it some other nation would. This is called the opportunity of self-interest. In a perfect world, that is bad. But in an imperfect world, that is necessary.
@44warjunkie Lets ignore reality again and the great resistance against actions that are just "human nature". All imperial states fail, so you should be no more angry if some nation invades us in the future than if a tornado hits your house. It's nature. If an extremist sets off a bomb in retaliation here, only natural then his being violent? You are just legitimizing the greed of the elites, ignoring the social and economic drivers. It's not fate, humans have choice, can remake their context.
@Simbelmyne13 trust me, its not poverty of lack of opportunities that drive these people. If that was the case, half of the world would be engaged in a struggle of this magnitude.
@44warjunkie Dude where have you been? Half the world IS engaged in struggle of this magnitude. Most do it in a non-extremist, non-violent manner. This is what all the uprisings in the middleast, latin america, and everywhere else are all about. Summarizing again, a wealthy elite via the state and corporations have been engaged in exploitation and subverting democracy for hegemonic reasons. The US just happens to be the predominate world power now controlling quite a bit of this. Read more.
@Simbelmyne13 I should have added there is great struggle here in America as well as the noose around the majority of the public has been tightened and the corporate elite have gained unprecedented power and wealth. You have only to listen to what the people in Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and other states are saying to see the real reasons unrest occur, as these are the same things happening globally.
this moderator loves to hear himself talk.
kirkeichler 2 days ago 2
Suicide 'bombings' are just newest method of it. Not that I'm claiming religion holds no place within the situation, but that imo, it's simply a justification for these individuals and their family. Many, regardless of religion, would have killed themselves if deemed necessary to destroy their supposed "enemy" and/or occupier. I think culture (which yes is heavily influenced by religion) is the target that should be looked at more closely.
HalcyonSunset 4 days ago
Sam Harris is brilliant when it comes to debunking religion itself.. but, as this debate has shown me, isn't the greatest when it comes to socio-political debates. He claims that martyrdom is the biggest cause of suicide attacks yet throughout all of human history, through every war, men and women, even children, have committed suicide to kill an opposing force or enemy. From kids running up to GI's with grenades in Vietnam to Kamikaze pilots in WWII, there has and always will be suicide attacks
HalcyonSunset 4 days ago
I am an atheist... but I hate how Harris totally missed the point. Hedges does not ignore fundamentalism... his critique is that Harris goes beyond fundamentalism to paint all religion as somehow evil or malicious. And frankly that opinion of his is completely divorced from facts. Hedges is right about the circumstances that lead people towards extremism. And extremism can impact both secular and religious movements. Too bad Harris has never understood that.
ymatmband 1 week ago
What Sam Harris fails to understand is that most Muslims would just mind their own business in peace and would keep away of violent radicalism if we, the Western powers and Israel, just left them alone instead of constantly invading and occupying their lands and interfering in their societies and internal affairs. Contrary to him, Chris Hedges seems to comprehend this perfectly.
237Michael 1 week ago
Chris Hedges lost the debate purely for using the non-word 'irregardless'. Plus the fact he's an apologist for suicide bombers and faith heads.
TheHippo18 1 week ago
@TheHippo18 And you lose for not knowing what the word apologist means. Understanding the CAUSE of something does not mean you think it is RIGHT. Furthermore, the facts support Hedges position when it comes to the causes of violent behaviour. I recommend you investigate the study of System Justification in social psychology. People tend to be stronger adherents to religion when they begin to feel like the secular world (the state) is losing control. look up research by john jost and aaron kay.
ymatmband 1 week ago
first off hedges isnt defending religion he is saying that it is other factors that are to blame for suicide bombers and hes kind of right. the point that i would like to make is that if we take religion away, then the reasons these bombers give for what they do can be looked at more rationally and judged without reverting to fundamentalist islam clichés. but the US and Israel dont want that because then they have no smokescreen. sam harriss won this before it started
lawndog6794 1 week ago
The title should be Sam Harris vs Chris Hedges & Robert Scheer
cuove 3 weeks ago
@cuove agreed. and sam handles it with such class, sophistication, and logic to defuse hedges and scheer's arguments
mjsipos13 2 weeks ago
Why have a non-moderate moderator?!
cuove 3 weeks ago
.But the violence would still exist...even if Islam didnt. Religious extremism is only one part of the problems facing human society.
librazone 3 weeks ago 2
There has been an extreme polarization in all aspects of human society over the past couple of decades. So it is disingenuous to make generalizations.
librazone 3 weeks ago 2
Is Sam Harris against Buddhism ?
librazone 3 weeks ago
@librazone yes
lawndog6794 1 week ago
sorry Chris but Sam LITERALLY pwned you on this one dood
oneirishpoet 3 weeks ago
@oneirishpoet can i ask why do people spell it pwned?
lawndog6794 1 week ago
Sam Harris is a god (not THE God) and the moderator is a douchebag...and Chris Hedges loses my respect for his defense of ANY religious 'faith'
oneirishpoet 3 weeks ago 4
best debate I have seen in a long time
85jacob85 1 month ago
Even though I'm mostly on Harris's side, I'm always impressed by people with actual experience. Hedges travels to dangerous places, Scheer actually interviewed Bertrand Russell.
jessc1979 1 month ago
Sam should stick with just the religious apologetics. He pretty much beat Chris on his Jesus talk, everything after that, Chris pretty much served him.
moety2 1 month ago
@helperthrope Are you butthurt? I don't understand your problem... seriously
OriginellerUserName 1 month ago
@helperthrope Good to know whos the actual troll:)
OriginellerUserName 1 month ago
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OriginellerUserName 1 month ago
@OriginellerUserName You, Sir, are ill-informed and a purveyor of corrosive and unpleasant views. You have no perspective.
Were you not so ill-informed, you would know that more Muslims are killed by other Muslims than by any other group.
Shame on you. I suggest that you gather more knowledge before speaking further.
GhostofHitchens 1 month ago
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OriginellerUserName 1 month ago
@OriginellerUserName Your use of 'text-speak' is a disappointment; I had at least assumed that I was dealing with some degree of intelligence.
Examine the fallacies in your own comments and save me the trouble of educating you.
A warning: you clearly believe that you are well-informed; it is equally clear that you are not. Superficial logic is your speciality.
Please don't expect further correspondence.
GhostofHitchens 1 month ago
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OriginellerUserName 1 month ago
So Saddam is secular leader? How can secular leader urge Jihad? WTF!
BigLebowsk 1 month ago
@OriginellerUserName Trololololl
ImBackAJ20101 1 month ago
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OriginellerUserName 1 month ago
It seems that Chris and Sam agree on a lot of issues and some of the issues where they disagree are just semantics and basic misunderstanding. Where they differ is that Chris believes that some of Sam's views are "bordering on racism" and he is basically taken his views too far. I think Hedges said in another debate that it was the human heart that is corruptible and basically if there was no religion there would be another system that is just as corrupt and that is caused by legit. grievances.
anus1233 1 month ago
Saddam was not a secular leader. Secular leaders don't have Koran's written in their own blood.
paxtexana 1 month ago 2
Sam Harris lost . Where is Chris Hedges' TED talk?!
raizr 1 month ago
@raizr sorry but Hedges got OWNED by Sam, and Chris sounds like some whiny petulant, adolescent asshole
oneirishpoet 3 weeks ago 2
Sam Harris is pretty ignorant of the world and human behavior. I do not agree with Hedges religious beliefs, but Harris has a characature view of people, especially the religious, in general.
YaelY7 1 month ago
Harris whupped (whooped?) both the moderator and Hedges.
redchango 2 months ago
Hedges sure is an apologist for Islam, a strangely discordant view from someone who equates televangelists with fascists.
It really means nothing to speak of what the "muslim world" thinks. It's a region more factious and ideologically diverse that Europe or N. America. The most pro-American place in the world outside the US is Kurdistan. Hedges would like what he hears from a palestinian but not from a Kurd, though both are mostly muslim.
charlesvan13 2 months ago
Hedges says some of the stupidest things.
30:15
The French thought Saddam had wmd also. You can claim they were right for not supporting the invasion, but not that they were right for something they didn't believe.
charlesvan13 2 months ago
The moderator's lame comment at 6:00 really makes me question his intelligence.
There's no comparison between the threat of nuclear terrorism and their use in WW2.
charlesvan13 2 months ago
@charlesvan13 Great point, its actually way worse to use nuclear weapons to murder innocent women and children than it is to threaten it.
narotax 1 month ago
Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.
1tabligh 2 months ago
Great debate between 2 great men and a wonderful, brilliant moderator. I think Mr. Hedges made the best points towards the end of the debate.
Liberalviewer1 2 months ago in playlist More videos from KYLYKaHYT 2
Colonel Sanders needs to quit moderating and go back to making fried chicken.
shkafster 2 months ago
wow, get rid of that moderator.
december6 2 months ago
The moderator needs to shut up.
blakeesmith84 2 months ago
Chris Hedges is an utter douchebag.
blakeesmith84 2 months ago
The old anti Islam isn't racism card doesn't work here. xxx
charlesfrith 3 months ago
@charlesfrith
Islam isn't a race. And its adherents consider it universal. They would prefer that everyone believe it and practice it. So you're statement is on par with claiming "Not liking falafels is racims."
charlesvan13 2 months ago
I had to turn this off after a few minutes because of that cunt moderator interrupting and getting mad at the audience.
BobMcCob 3 months ago
The moderate is a tool. At one point even the audience was screaming at him. No one came to see him speak, he should learn how to shut the fuck up.
BobMcCob 3 months ago
Hedges' possition ignores cases such as when dispair and desire for survival leads Muslim people to support US foreign policy, i.e. the Kurds, Bosnians, and Libyans, not to mention Kuwaities.
Does anyone dare ask him if that is less forgivable than martyrdom?
charlesvan13 3 months ago
Hedges' possitions really fail to address the issue of what's appropriate when middle eastern countries want us to intervene, such as Libya.
Saying some knee-jerk thing about American imperialism just dodges the issue.
The NTC with NATO's help gave Libyans a say in their govenment and weath.
charlesvan13 3 months ago
Oh god.
30:16 Hedges : The French were right.
Chirac was Saddams go to guy for nuclear technology. That was incredibly irresponsible behavior, on the part of France.
charlesvan13 3 months ago
Hedges can really be an apologist for Islamic terror.
"Muslims in Europe have an identity crisis."
There are immigrants all over the world, including most of America, who initially have the same problem. That doesn't go near explaining mass murder.
charlesvan13 3 months ago
Sam Harris vs Moderator... and Chris Hedges
thegod1nator 3 months ago
@thegod1nator sam doesnt need notes he just kicks ass every time out
phildirt3 3 months ago
The 'moderator' wasn't really moderating. He was offering his own opinion, ideas and attacking arguments posed by both sides. It felt like there was some bias, but regardless, a moderator shouldn't be speaking that much. As a person with integrity, he's fine, but a poor moderator if that was his role.
fazelol 3 months ago
To hear a journalist use the term 'irregardless' makes me question his entire argument.
phayzedjaymz 3 months ago
@charlesfrith Have you read his books? Was it not extremely clear that the debate was overtaken, by all three men, by examples of the middle east? They were specifically discussing the middle east and why they think the problems are occurring. it was one example, for both if them. you either didn't watch it, or don't understand it:
BER2ERKER 3 months ago
@charlesfrith you're clearly way off base on Sam harris' stance; or, you're just off base with reality.
BER2ERKER 3 months ago
I find it strange that people are complaining about the non-impartiality of the moderator, its not like he used his power as moderator to gang up on Harris, in fact he gave him far more time than Hedges because of his non-impartiality, which actually hurt Hedges. I sympathise deeply with both of these men, on some issues i agree more with Hedges, on some issues i agree more with Harris i can't see how anyone could say Hedges or Harris lost this debate
gar77772221able1 3 months ago
2 on 1 and Sam easily dispatches them both
manonthemount 3 months ago in playlist More videos from KYLYKaHYT
Moderator from hell.
aigg 3 months ago
27:31 "Irregardless" NONSTANDARD ADVERB. Your argument is invalid. Oh snap.
mattplayer85 3 months ago
Ohh i get it now, a moderaters job is to be the center of attention........
fnuttskallen 3 months ago
That moderator reveals his bias at every moment and therefore should not be moderating.
melzaren 4 months ago
People commenting should remember that this is not a football match, it's an intellectual debate. It's not as if one side is "right" and the other one is "wrong". Both had some perfectly strong and insightful arguments, as well as some crappy ones. I agree with Sam when he says that religious teachings are irrational, oppressive, a fueling factor to violence etc., and Chris explained very well that they are not the fundamental cause. I'm really glad to have watched these two wise men discuss.
386dx1 4 months ago
Yeah this moderator is an ass
jasmac04 4 months ago 19
This moderator needs to shut up and let the speakers speak.
sirmailbox 4 months ago 2
I'm pretty sure Harris is a witch.
WestonPDX100 4 months ago
Islam is a monster that west is waking that up. it will burn all human civilization
Happal8788 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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lightandbeautiful 4 months ago
8:37 to 8:38 - what is that cut?
PublicSecrecy 4 months ago
Sam Harris can't make up his mind whether to be a comedian or outraged atheist. On this alone he's confused about his future but much more pernicious is his intolerance for an Islam for which he can justify a never ending round of depleted Uranium bombing despite Vietnam, El Salvador and the list of Christian killing from the US goes on and on. He's a lizard. An ugly racist lizard.
charlesfrith 4 months ago
@charlesfrith Ah, the old "racist" accusation...since when is Islam a race? I guess you didn't hear his defense of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and dark-skinned Muslim females against the horrors of Islamic misogyny. It is interesting that Hedges never mentions the clitorectomy rate in Egypt despite his years of living there. And as Harris points out, no one suffers from Islamic cruelty more than Muslims. Sorry dude, the sooner people abandon religion the better.
TheTorJohnson 4 months ago 7
@TheTorJohnson I specifically use the word racism as that is what Sam Harris is when he paints broad strokes for Islam that have never once included the largest population of Muslims on the planet in Indonesia. When Harris gets out of his armchair theoretician and qualifies that Islam is not the middle East I'll follow suit. Till then he is a racist and a disgusting apologist for neocon slaughter.
charlesfrith 4 months ago
@charlesfrith Sam is very much critical of the Islamic terrorists in Indonesia, the Philippines, and Thailand. He is vocal against the Afghan/Pakistani Taliban and their acid-throwing ways, and they are are not at all Middle Eastern. His antagonism against the stoning of homosexuals and female genital mutilation of all races surely deserves praise among all civilized people. Call him all the names you want (neocon, racist, etc) but it damages your own reliability more than his reputation.
TheTorJohnson 4 months ago
@charlesfrith You're post rationalising your defence. Drilling down because you wont have expected this I was at the Amnesty International press conference for the Southern Thailand conflict three weeks ago. It is a complete mystery. Nobody knows the claims, the aims or the reasons why the Buddhists are being beheaded except that it is in a war on terror in whose favour it is to keep the tension simmering. The absence of claims are something I specifically tackled. Indonesia is fine.
charlesfrith 4 months ago
@charlesfrith well Islam is not a race so your a total fucking moron.
BobMcCob 3 months ago
@BobMcCob I think you made a mistake then. It's you're not your. I wont call you a Moron because you need to get help. Meditate or aromatherapy or something nice and relaxing. Big kiss from me Bobby. xxxx
charlesfrith 3 months ago
@charlesfrith Islam is a religion, the most popular in the world, not a race - deal with it.
BobMcCob 2 months ago
@BobMcCob Islam is probably the most interesting Abrahamic faith for reasons I wont burden you with. The mistake you made confusing "your" with "you're" is a common one so don't be harsh on yourself. I forgive you and sympathise with your plight too. I'm sorry things are so negative you take comfort in leaving the comments you feel obliged to leave. If your self esteem wasn't low it wouldn't be necessary but it is so I forgive you.
charlesfrith 2 months ago
@charlesfrith I don't exactly know what you are trying to say, but you look like quite a dumbfuck to the outside observer. Is this actually what happens to you when you are cornered and proven wrong?
BobMcCob 2 months ago
I don't think the moderator knows what a moderator is supposed to do. This really was a 2 on 1 debate. Sam did quite well despite this.
TheTorJohnson 4 months ago 2
Interesting. Harris seems to largely ignore the social component that should actually be obvious. Ideologies are shaped by the socioeconomic conditions the communities in which they dominate are faced with. He only sees the egg and forgets about the chicken. If one wants to avoid social phenomena such as suicide bombing one needs to alter the destitute conditions that feed these phenomena.
Ichtiostega 4 months ago
@Ichtiostega Harris' arguments can be also be used as a legitimation of the imperialist policies of Israel and the West.
Ichtiostega 4 months ago
Good debate. So far I agree with both speakers on different points. I however don't like the hostile tone that a lot of people have here in the comments section. This is not a gladiator fight, this is an intellectual debate. You should cheer for reason and not people.
Ichtiostega 4 months ago
At 34:35, the Moderator, Scheer, has to resort to outright LYING about the facts (the pew poll questions) in order to argue against Sam Harris.
professorgentzel 4 months ago
Chris - I sympathize with his values with respect to culture, being anti-war, the role of desperation, and the rise of oligarchs. But his radical, wafer-thin minority view of religion is almost a non-sequiter in the real world.
Sam - Proves that atheism is no remedy from our baser instincts. His more recent work, where he imagines a science of morality, clearly shows he is no more rational than those he despises.
drchaffee 4 months ago
looney atheists? tut tut, atheists are not the ones who don't believe in science. The only looneys are people who believe in stuff for which THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
I agree, its not good to demonise an entire group of people - but we should be clear about what is getting demonised here; its the dogma which is deserving of demonisation. And then its just unfortunate if they follow like sheep..
0933062 5 months ago
Worst Moderator Ever
ImBackAJ20101 5 months ago 47
@ImBackAJ20101 No shit. I've never seen a moderator talk this much.
Reip187 3 months ago in playlist More videos from KYLYKaHYT
@ImBackAJ20101 who is this meatball and why isnt he just moderating
phildirt3 3 months ago
@ImBackAJ20101
Yeah, this guy sucks balls.
You're not supposed to say things like "I;m glad to hear that." to a debater when you're the moderator.
charlesvan13 3 months ago
@ImBackAJ20101 Why is he a bad moderator? it's the format of this debate that the moderator was given a turn to assert his own opinion and put forth questions. the questions he raised were important and most educated Americans were doubtlessly thinking some of the same things as he was, so what's the problem here?
truthslap 3 months ago
@truthslap The moderator become the second opponent. Let's count how many times the moderator went against Chris Hedges, vs. Sam Harris, shall we? If the moderator can pick sides, then don't call it a debate.
Regardless, Sam did a good job of handling both of them.
ImBackAJ20101 3 months ago
@ImBackAJ20101 If he's going to assert his opinion as part of the debate format then naturally it'd fall one way or the other. I didn't like that he would interrupt the speakers from answering each others questions, and I didn't much appreciate his outbursts at the audience for applauding Harris, but he did ask some pertinent questions that I'm sure alot of other people were thinking, and this was just the particular format of the debate.
truthslap 3 months ago
@ImBackAJ20101 Yes and no. I rather wish more moderators would step in and point out logical fallacies in debates.
tyotypic 2 months ago
yes, in your own words, sheer, you are a lousy moderator. sam harris will eat your lunch any time he wants.
jalapaman 5 months ago
This moderator asks too much question?
voltus76 5 months ago
Wow, what a truly great debate. I love Harris and Hedges, and they did not disappoint. Religion is divisive, politics is divisive, both are used to oppress.
luisdez81 5 months ago 3
I think Chris Hedges is actually a straw man, himself.
ubernaffa 5 months ago
Scheer & Hedges tried to cover up the abuse of popular religions for the sake of attacking Western-ism... really weak.
tobynsaunders 5 months ago 3
@ikickyonuts yeah, what a fµ€king hypocrite Scheer is, saying "I remain an agnostic on their divisions" when he was clearly putting his full support behind Hedges; where did truthdig dig him up from? probably an organisation called 'sh!te-dig'
0933062 5 months ago
If Islam really posed the threat that Sam claims, we would be in some real trouble--there's over a billion Muslims in the world. Sam is full of it and he should really stop making an ass of himself. I think he's forgetting a real important factor--how U.S./Western imperialism is at the root of Islamic terrorism. Hedges spent years in the Muslim world. I think it makes logical sense to listen to someone who actually has firsthand knowledge of these people.
migs791 5 months ago
@migs791 Or someone like Mohammed Atta? he certainly has first hand knowledge of them..as for saying 'Western imperialism is at the root of Islamic terrorism', as the HItch says "you see how far the termites have got, Ladies & Gentlemen" ..classic cretinism..
0933062 5 months ago
@0933062 Maybe all you nut-case atheists can team up with teh Christian Fascists and start a war on Islam. Good luck.. Religion isn't necessary to commit atrocities. The most horrific acts of terrorism were committed against the civilians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, in the name of imperialim. This act of terrorism was actually the begining of the Cold War--the U.S. wanted the unconditional surrender of the Japanase and they didn't mind killing hundreds of thousands of peeps to scare the soviets
migs791 5 months ago
@migs791 Nutcase? who's the one who believes in a supernatural deity for which there is no evidence WHATSOEVER. Scientific research (you know, science, that discipline whichis the antithesis of faith) has shown substantial evidence that theists have low IQs. I arrest my case.
0933062 5 months ago
@0933062 O.K., how about looney tunes. First, of all I have nothing against atheists or people of faith, but I definitely disagree with the extremists on both sides of the spectrum. Whether your a member of the Christian Right (fascists) or a looney atheist, it's not cool to demonize an entire group of people based on the actions of a small minority. I think ur boy Harris, at the very least owes an apology to all Muslims serving in our military.
migs791 5 months ago
@migs791
Just Hitler in the name of his Catholicism(among other things) didn't mind burning 60 million Jew, just as the Crusades didn't mind killing 40 million people either, or the equisition, just to name a few. Yeah...Religion doesn't kill ANYBODY. Oh did I forget when God supposedly flooded the world killing all but a small family and some animals? As 0933062 said, I rest my case.
elvebrothergenju 5 months ago
@elvebrothergenju Really, 60 million Jews. I think someone misinformed ur ass. If that was the case there wouldn't be any Jews left. Nonetheless, I totally agree w/ you that atrocities have and continue to be justified in the name of religion. However, I don't agree with the demonization of Muslims and I also disagree with the false notion that certain atheists have--if it weren't for religion, this world would be a better place. If u believe the latter, u might as well believe in fairy tales.
migs791 5 months ago
@migs791
Humans have the ability to make errors my friend, perhaps understand that before speaking uncivilized. It was more around 6 million Jews, an unfortunate typo on my part. I never stated anything of the Muslims myself, at least not specifically. However, I do feel that had religion been stripped of it's supernatural and immoral tendencies, and used only as literature. We certainly could have avoided a great deal of misfortune, as well as made some further progression.
elvebrothergenju 5 months ago
BTW these same policor maggots are in bed with the corporate.
Armchair-socialists. They hijacked the term left, democratic and socialism and ran with it.
Too bad the real socialists are too old to make a fist. They made western society a better place by spreading the wealth
sonykroket 5 months ago
These fuckin policor maggots always try to pull the same bullshit with their stupid attempts at character-assassination by accusing the opponent of racism or putting words in their mouths.
Fuck them, i'm from Holland and the policor mafia destroyed this country which was once a paradise. The charities/greenwingers/policor dipshits are the new religions
Do as we say and pay this, or you're a bad person.
But the masses fall for it.......
sonykroket 5 months ago 2
Fuck, i can't stop being amazed
His comparison between nazism and islam but using it to show how ridiculous it is to leave a religion/ideology alone while the core beliefs are messed up with both of them.
One of his gems in some debates was something like:
"The moderates provide the shade under which the fundies can relax"
Sheer brilliance, i stand in awe
sonykroket 5 months ago
Damn, this is one of Sam's finest hours
He's on a roll, yo!
sonykroket 5 months ago
This host is one prejudiced fuckin policor douchebag
Good thing they're desperate because Sam is a league of his own
sonykroket 5 months ago
The first 10 mins, that chrisdude doesn't realise he's proving Sams point about how fucked up islam is, despite the fact he's trying to undermine Sam by accusing his book of not being accurate.
What a dumbass and a traitor
sonykroket 5 months ago
The host looks like a zombie fossil that doesn't yet realise it belongs in a museum
sonykroket 5 months ago 2
Harris didnt even need to get out of second gear.
TheAtheistlover 5 months ago 11
@TheAtheistlover
Shit mate sam had his engine only idling in first gear. Accelerator peddle wasn't even touched!
jasmac04 4 months ago
@jasmac04 Very true hahaha !!!
TheAtheistlover 4 months ago
The moderator clearly is on his fucking high horse and needs to get down.
ZachRose88 6 months ago
the naivette of Scheer and Hedges is astounding
funcpl2741054 6 months ago 2
@ikickyonuts Totally! What the hell is he doing, overriding Sam Harris, who is one of the most eloquent, calmest and reasonable debaters on this subject out there, and siding with the hysterical Hedges, who actually accidentally stumbles on some good points whilst weaving through his rambling monologue, essentially saying that he beats any of Harris very well presented points because he met a Muslim. I've read James Hider's book "The Spiders of Allah" - does it mean he is right every time?
DanielBignell 6 months ago 2
Comment removed
DirtDickDylinger402 6 months ago
@DirtDickDylinger402 easy there, silly person.
instereovideos 6 months ago
They are mixing arguments. They are getting off topic when they bring in the socioeconomic forces on belief. That's a different argument.
BKKaye 6 months ago
No. Everybody and anybody can go suicide bombing not just Muslims. Sam Harris seems ignorant of Japanese Kamikazes.
technatezin 6 months ago
@technatezin
He never claimed that they were the only ones, try again.
Chinomareno 6 months ago
@technatezin
Everybody conveniently forgets that America hosted IRISH REPUBLICAN TERRORISTS, over a hundred years ago. They were called FENIANS, and their modus operandi was to attack British targets in Canada from the American side of the border. Their terrorist actions were called FENIAN RAIDS.
SadieMirsade 6 months ago
@SadieMirsade Of course. Terrorism, insurgency, guerilla warfare are battlefield tactics not an ideology. Waging a war against battlefield tactics (War on terror) is absolutely idiotic. Any ideology can use insurgency tactics including religious fanatics. Battlefield tactics are ideology neutral.
technatezin 6 months ago
Sam knows his onions!
RandomVortex 6 months ago
Notice how every time Harris gets a clap it's because of something he said that was thoughtful, Hedges gets a clap for saying what everyone already knew "we shouldn't be bombing the middle east " APPLAUSE...please
TheLydianRocks 6 months ago 3
Wait, was the debater supposed to be in the middle on this debate or was it a 2 on 1?
swimmerzargon 6 months ago 2
Part of the problem with Harris's response is that he fails to distinguish between cause and motive in the case of suicide bombing conducted in the name of religion. Poverty is sometimes, but not always, a causal factor; political grievances and its attendant objectives are almost always a causal AND motivating factor. A particular kind of religious logic is often a motivating factor. But causes are more important than motives. We should work to remove the causative factors for terrorism.
nyscholartist 6 months ago
Harris is so fucking perfect with his analogies. Hedges at 17:13 : if even hateful passages cannot be used to discredit a book, what can?
Hedges is brainwashed.
masusomasuso 6 months ago 2
Scheer is not a participant. He is the moderator. If wanted to participate, he should have put himself in the discussion. His intervention is detrimental to the conservational flow of these passionate speakers.
sccitylhh 6 months ago 2
These guys are both terrific in some of their points but they just talked past each other too much, and as I see their squabbles continue that sort of incommensurability is maintained and heightened in a way.
fauyd 6 months ago
Its a shame sam harris has to justify himself against religion at all, his logical thinking could be used to further society rather than giving religion any time of day
UnDermynes 6 months ago
hedges is right about gaza but that is not the debate
justgold76 6 months ago
Harris wiped the floor with that on the fence asshole Hedges and the mod!!!!
justgold76 6 months ago
Someone in the audience had to yell out "you're the moderator", LOL
Harris vs Hedges & the moderator: someone needs to show Sam's opponents here footage of jubilation in the Muslim world after 911. Search YouTube: 'celebrating 911'
These two delusional jerks claim 911 was condemned in the Muslim world (when they weren't blaming the Jews).
What a lie and what a fantastic insult to all who were murdered!
Hotlinekick 7 months ago
Harris will always win because the facts and reason are on his side.
Hotlinekick 7 months ago 2
The problem I have with Harris is the way he makes so makes so many reductio ad absurdum jokes that he ends up coming off as disrespectful sometimes. However, he had some good arguments that seemed to voice authentic ethical concerns.
ludenmenthol 7 months ago
15:55 In the pre-Enlightened Christian world, was anyone suffering more than Christian women?
cleanhomer 7 months ago
Harris, jihad does NOT always mean violence!
cleanhomer 7 months ago
Harris needs more videos!!!!
emmanuelmorrell 7 months ago
Harris seems to completely block out and ignore the impact that US foreign policy has had on the Arab world and for this reason they are just talking past one another in most of the discussion.
shallbeagain 7 months ago 3
@shallbeagain They do really seem to be talking past one another. Sam does not seem to understand that the horrendous policy, atrocities, and support for dictatorships are driving the hostility and violence. Religion may provoke some irrational and violent behavior but those extreme views and the unrest are much more likely driven by despair from legitimate grievances.
Simbelmyne13 7 months ago
It takes hold at certain moments mr. moderator because thats how Islam is. When they are weak numerically and militarily they stay silent, but when they are not they jump to the attack.
44warjunkie 7 months ago
Fucking lefties are gonna kill us all with their tolerance to the intolerant. They are ignoring Islam at their own peril. Whats with this new politically correct way to view Islam and Islam only? Fuck that! They are just like any other religion which is opened to criticism and insult.
44warjunkie 7 months ago
Whats with these self-loathing people other debater + moderator? I guess all that i have read about them is true. They always have to find blame in their own camps because to do otherwise is racist and bigoted. I'm sick and tired of this Western guilt bullshit! Has it ever occured to these people that our side and ideas (other than not being perfect) is better than theirs? This ability to self-criticize is good to a degree, but you will never find this in the Muslim world at least in this extent
44warjunkie 7 months ago 2
@44warjunkie I'm wasting my breath but has it occurred to you in your simplistic world to consider the real drivers of hostility? The US has taken the lead in decades of exploitation of the region for hegemonic control of resources, through war and propping of corrupt dictators. Our terrorism has killed 100's of thousands, driving up their terrorist ranks. Neither is legit. Not about guilt, it's about reality. Read what our victims say then imagine yourself in their place. Elementary morality.
Simbelmyne13 7 months ago
@Simbelmyne13 You serious? You think the U.S invented the rules of “how to usurp and exploit other people’s lands”? This has been going on since the creation of our species. Nothing new here, if the U.S didn't do it some other nation would. This is called the opportunity of self-interest. In a perfect world, that is bad. But in an imperfect world, that is necessary.
44warjunkie 7 months ago
@44warjunkie Lets ignore reality again and the great resistance against actions that are just "human nature". All imperial states fail, so you should be no more angry if some nation invades us in the future than if a tornado hits your house. It's nature. If an extremist sets off a bomb in retaliation here, only natural then his being violent? You are just legitimizing the greed of the elites, ignoring the social and economic drivers. It's not fate, humans have choice, can remake their context.
Simbelmyne13 7 months ago
@Simbelmyne13 trust me, its not poverty of lack of opportunities that drive these people. If that was the case, half of the world would be engaged in a struggle of this magnitude.
44warjunkie 7 months ago
@44warjunkie Dude where have you been? Half the world IS engaged in struggle of this magnitude. Most do it in a non-extremist, non-violent manner. This is what all the uprisings in the middleast, latin america, and everywhere else are all about. Summarizing again, a wealthy elite via the state and corporations have been engaged in exploitation and subverting democracy for hegemonic reasons. The US just happens to be the predominate world power now controlling quite a bit of this. Read more.
Simbelmyne13 7 months ago
@Simbelmyne13 I should have added there is great struggle here in America as well as the noose around the majority of the public has been tightened and the corporate elite have gained unprecedented power and wealth. You have only to listen to what the people in Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and other states are saying to see the real reasons unrest occur, as these are the same things happening globally.
Simbelmyne13 7 months ago