Like your video! There is another argument that I would like to add. Many religious people I have talked to have used the 'design argument'. It basically means something as complicated as the human eye can't just happen by chance but surely if something that complicated can't just come into existence. What about god? We can't comprehend god. So surely if something as complicated as an eye can't just come into existence then why is god 'real'. Surely god is a lot harder to comprehend than the
Actually you can prove Santa and Unicorns dont exist . Because they HAVE A HISTORY. The modern Santa was the product of Harper magazine in the 1800. Unicorns came about during the Renaissance as a a symbol of purity and grace. Also there no unicorns walking about today and theirs no fossils. Take away religion. You cant prove the concept of god dose or doesn't exist unless you have infinite knowledge of the universe. Which no one haves. Beside there whole lot more we dont know then we know.
You heard people say- "it will never be found", "it ain't true", "it just can't be".
I'm here to tell you these People are WRONG- I found it. Using Google Earth -
I found God's Watermarks of the REAL Garden of Eden. Look at my Channel and see the Video I made of it. I didn't point all of it out either- there are many things still hid for you to find. I even found 3 picture's of God. Come see.
There may be no laws which prohibit rape, but there are laws against adultery, which would include extramarital rape, and there are commands for husbands to love their wives. If a husband loved his wife, he would not want to rape her, loving her as his own flesh.
@LMMEjsmith About the holy text, i don't believe God physically wrote the entire Bible. I believe that, while God authored it, humans took dictation. That any holy text would be written in an universal language seems unreasonable, but the original language the new testament was written in came close. Greek was the widest spread and understood language of that time, in that area.
If God were to intervene in every instance of "evil", what would we learn? Let God handle it? Do nothing, it's not our responsibility? There are laws and commands in place to teach us, so that "evil" won't happen. Evil does happen because people choose to cause it or let it happen. Foreknowing an event does not mean people have no free will, it just means that our choices have been predicted.
The purpose for creation is to give God glory, for God to share love, and to be loved in return. I have a daughter, i love her, i want her to love me, but even if i could force her to love me, i wouldn't, because love given without a choice is cold, programmed, and false. God wants us to want to obey, not to respond to programming.
@LMMEjsmith The laws against adultery are gender specific. In other words, it's abut women cheating on their husbands. It doesn't go the other way around. So, rape is *not* covered by the adultery laws.
Besides, how easy would it be to make "Thou shall not rape" into the 10 Commandments? Why isn't it there? Instead, god wastes three commandments to say the same thing: "Obey me!"
@LordStrange Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery." That's not gender specific. Maybe God hasn't corrected it because He doesn't think it needs correcting. In any translation that i've read the basic gist is the same, the stories are the same, and the plan for salvation is the same.
@LMMEjsmith Check with your local Rabbi about the translation. The connotation in the original Hebrew is "woman cheating on husband." The English doesn't have that connotation.
@LordStrange Ok, then, Leviticus 18:20 "moreover, thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbor's wife, to defile thyself with her." There's a few other instances where men are held responsible for adultery. Leviticus 20:10, and Deuteronomy 22:23-24. In that last one, the female is punished because she does not scream for help, which indicates to me that rape was looked down on. Genesis 34 has an account where a woman, neither married nor betrothed, is essentially raped, and the man is punished.
@LMMEjsmith Youtube won't let me post links, so do a google search for "bible rape marriage punishment." the first link should be evil bible. check it out.
The assertion that God is good or evil seems to be based on human terms, as we understand them. If mankind were the measure of all things, then there would be no good or evil, because as logoRH mentions, they would be non absolutes. The scriptural assertion that God is good is not done based on human measures, but on God's measure. God, being good, is the ultimate universal standard for goodness. Anything that does not meet God's standard is what is evil.
You cite unjust murder as a form of evil, but is the violence that the God of the old testament unjust? And i mean by the standard of the scriptures themselves. If you disagree with the reasons given for the violence, that is one thing, but if the scriptures themselves contradict the reasons given for the violence, that is something else.
to prove that something is of non-existence, it first have to exist. there is no solid evidence of GOD's existence so hows anyone going to disprove him is he doesn't exist!?
@LordStrange i didnt say i dont have them. You didnt asked for it. You asked how i know. I Answered. The Problem with "evidence" in this case is, what evidence would you accept? Archilogical? Scriptual? Historical? We also would have to Diskuss what evidence really is ect. ect. its nothing i could say in 500 Charakters. And of course, there is ne undiskussed evidance. There is also evidence, that all is wrong. Its History. Thats how it works.
...i would say its the same Thing with the Bibel and me. My Vater gave it to me, i red it, and i liked it. In Fakt i liked it even more, the more i understood about it. How do i know the Bibel is true? I could say thousands of Words, we could Diskuss this propably some Time. But you ask, why i know it. I know it, because it proof right to me. I lived after what is in this book, i prayed and God responced. I prayed and knew he was there. Its a little bit like falling in Love. You cant tell
@LordStrange you say by yourself, for excample in the Video Play Dirty: The Magician from about 6:20 on, that we Make Pictures in our Minds. We Image how the Story or the Person is, we Read or hear about. Thats how we are. We think Storys. Thats how the Bibel (espacially the old Testament) is written. And Storys always have a large Variaty of interpretation. Some People really like games like DnD, i dont like them. But when i hear from a DnD nerd why he likes it, sometimes i would play it...
@LordStrange Simply because i have an other Perspective on the Bibel then the People you talked to obviously. Its like with the Statement "God is Good" Sure it stands in the Bibel. It sure does. But You would also say that your Girl-friend is good. But would never think you have discribed her whole self, do you?
...its a Book which shows us, what he has overcome with his People. What Persons have experienced with God. No Rulebook, ok.. maybe a little bit. But what Rules are here for anyway? Every Roleplayer knows you cant play with or without them. You need them to remember what you should do. I dont wanna start an Argument, i really dont. I just want to encurage everyone: Read the Bibel. Surprise yourself
...God is a living Beeing. To say God is Good would reduce him significantly. How good is a Father who dont cares what his Children do and love them anyway? I dont make any Statements like: God will punish anyone.. no.. thats what you say. I just say.. he cares. He really does. He also cares about the Children who die. He cares about me, and about you. He cared about Humanity no matter how long they are on earth. Why should he give them Science in his Book? The Bibel is no scientifical Guideline
...or the simple Fact that his History would have begun 4000 Years ago. Now the simple Fact is, that you havent really looked. You mentioned by yourself that you hate Reviewers "Have you even red the Book?" now i am asking you the same Thing. Have you red the Bibel? And i mean not just overlooked it, i mean red. Without your Atheist-glases on, or with the Words orther People said to you. If you read the Bibel you will recognize that there are no real absolute Statements about God, because of....
Hey John. First: i am german, so if my grammer is wrong, my apologizes. Second i like to say, that i really like your Videos and your Games, espacially the new one, called Houses of the Blooded. Its really nice to read and i really have the Feeling you care for the Players and what you think is best.
Its good you Ask Questions, but the Problem is, that you Argue with Arguments from People who have a really one pointed sight of view. The responses you Make are to Arguments like: God is good....
@misterstarwars Actually, it doesn't. Modern translations have added "rape" to the text, but in the original Hebrew, it mentions nothing at all about rape.
If you want to learn about the Old Covenant, ask a Jew. He'll be happy to tell you all about it.
It's all blue car phenomenon. If you don't beleive in god, you'll find all the reasons god can't exist. If you do believe in god, you'll find all the reasons God does exist. Neither side will accept the other side's evidence as valid. big whell keep on turning, proud mary keep on rolling.
I am Muslim n I believe n follow Jesus,bible,Moses, toruh,ibrahaim,Salomon,David,Noah etc. The Quran wasn't written by muhammed cuzz muhammed was illiterate. But jabreel recited it to him then moe recited to the pplz around. The Quran never been changed nor edited. Through science I can proof the Quran is the book of god.
I don't like it when people try to prove others wrong like this. If you have something good to proclaim, proclaim it. If you have a grievance against another group, air it. But I hate seeing people preach a negative doctrine (ex. "I don't know what's right, but THESE guys are WRONG" etc.) I believe that uplifting others by teaching what you know to be true is more profitable for everyone.
compelling, though what if the ultimate outcome is good (which I hope it will be)? How can we know the ultimate outcome and diffinitevely say that free will did not exist? Sorry for the length, felt I needed to share this though.
that we as humans would have a hard time grasping omnipotence. With things like schrodinger's cat and the two slit experiment we get the sense that all probabilities exist until observed, maybe God knows all probabilities at all time, or maybe all probabilities do exist simultaneously as suggested by the many worlds theory, and if that's the case free will maybe the manifistation of the reality you reside within. Of all your arguement I find the notion that God knows the outcome the most
- continued I tend to agree with Einstein's views on God, and he did believe in god, in a God that reveals himself in the harmony that exists. As far as determinism, predestination or free will, I am still struggling with my own views on such. In fact science used to hold a deterministic view of the universe but now, with things like wave function and such we have learned that the universe is probably not deterministic, that chance does exist. I think as far as omnipotence and knowing all
-continued As far as why does God allow bad things to happen, here is my answer. As a parent if your child was to fall down and hurt themselves, and you had the power to stop it, you would, correct? Now let's consider If stopping this child from falling everytime, the end reult is that they never learn to walk would you still catch them? I also do not believe in a typical form of damnation, I believe damnation is litterally a stopping of the progression towards god, a "damn" so to speak.
I think with the first section of the video you are giving yourself the answer to the last half of the video. The bible (whichever you use) was written by man. There is light and truth in them, but they are faulty. God (which I'll use as the name for this higher power) did not write them. I believe that each person's journey to god is their own to make and some understand that journey better with the use of these books, as long as they do not use thier beliefs to harm others should be allowed
@Ataratha If the Bible and Koran "have light" and are ways of finding god, why doesn't he correct them? Also, both the Bible and the Koran have conflicting claims about god. Why doesn't he make it clear which one it is? In other words, if the bible is "the rules" for the game of life, why doesn't the game designer give us a better set of rules?
@LordStrange I don't believe God is as active as that in our lives, as far as specifically fixing something. He made the rules of the universe, and they are discernable to us by reason, and the mind. The reason he doesn't make things clear, easy or perfect goes back to that doing so would leave us without opportunity for growth. As far as more than one set of rules, there is usually more than one way to arrive at the same solution, for me paths to God are similar.
@Ataratha Also, about the entire free will debate, the problem is simple: If you are ALL knowing, ALL powerfull and ALL loving, 3 aspects that most Christians will claim fits God, then "free will" as a concept is simply not possible.
If he knows everything, absolutely everything, that means he would also know how people are going to react before they react. Actually, as he knows how everybody reacts, he could at the moment of creation see how you would react now and have changed it
@mhrby1985 I'm not "christian" by most people's definition, I'm closer to panathiest or buddhist, though neither quite describe my views.
As far as free will, determinism, and predestination, I'm not sure which is true, regardless of if a god does or does not exist. Science itself tends to point towards free will or chance as you will, not determinism.
If you are going to do something right now, that is considered a sin, then god created the universe, knowing that would you commit a sin now that he should judge you on.
But as he was all powerful, he would have had the power, at the moment of creation, to make such slight changes that everything stayed the same, except that one act of sin.
which brings me to the final part about the 3 aspects being impossible together
@Ataratha Either he knew and could have prevented you from commiting the sin, in which case he is not all loving, as he willfully judged you to eternity in hell for something he could have changed and knew you was going to do, which means you didnt have a choise, or no free will.
Or he knew and wanted to change it, but couldn't change it, which means he is not all powerfull.
Or he could and wanted to, but didn't know, and then he is not all knowing
@mhrby1985 I don't believe in the orthodox views of sin, I claim to be religous, I did not claim to be part of any organized religion.I do not believe in hell, I believe in "damnation', which is self imposed not deity impossed, a damning of the soul, as in a stopping of progression towards God.As far non-intervention from God I think the analogy of If you could stop your children from falling and getting hurt you would, but if doing so meant they would never learn to walk you would let them fall
@Ataratha Which is why I said most Christians and not specific it as you, sorry if it was not clear that I did not want to apply a label on you, as you hadn't provided any and instead I had to argument in a general sense of things.
So I assume that means that by your personal definition of God, God is not all powerfull, all knowing and all loving then?
Would you perhaps share your personal definition of God with me?
@mhrby1985 I would guess that if I had to try to define god it would be along the lines of omnipotent, all powerfull, and all knowing, but I also believe any defintion of god is flawed, much the same way that any observation we make is flawed because we can never remove the observer from the observed. To an extent the very nature of God is undefinable, mostly because of our own limited minds.
@Ataratha A good answer with your definition, and glad to see an intellectual beliver for once, or well, not intelligent that makes me happy, but intelligent and honest to yourself and to others at the same time; I am sure some of the others I talked with was intelligent as well, but they were never honest enough to even suggest their concepts or definitions could potentially be flawed.
So in what way is God important to you then? It must have some importance or it would not be worth beliving
@mhrby1985 Thank you.I have very heavily questioned my belief in God before, and while I do believe in God, I am not above questioning and examining my own beliefs now and then. For me, when I pray I feel at one with the comos in a sense, part of something grander, and though this may be self delusion the benefits of self visualization and self reflection that accompany prayer are worth it to me. I truly feel a oneness and order when I study science and religion, and I want others to feel that.
@Ataratha Sorry for basicly posting the same reply to you twice, but youtube wasn't updating the comments for me, so I thought my first replies had been lost.
I feel a connection to the cosmos too, but not due to prayer or any supernatural beliefs, but by making grand realizations based upon knowledge.
Once upon a time, way back in time, all matter and energy was connected, so once the atoms of my body touched the atoms of the stars in the other end of the galaxy.
@Ataratha If you trust a gut feeling so much that you would assert that you accept something as true based on that, then I feel slightly sorry for you.
I do not feel sorry for you, however, because I think we are using different definition of belief here, at least I hope you do not understand what I mean, when I tell you that in the right context, belief means to accept something as being true.
We have a everyday definition of belief that differs from the real one, just like theory in science
@mhrby1985 Not just a gut feeling but intuition. for example, before I ever learned that when flipping a coin you have a slightly higher percentage chance of landing on heads because of the slight weight differences on each side, even as a child my intuition told me to always go with heads, based on my experience, but not readily able to prove why at the moment, that's how I see my belief.
@Ataratha Really? that is a neat little fact I didn't know, I usually know such facts, but then again, as a non-american who use another currency than dollars, our coin designs are rather different (which also means my examples was quite tricky, as if I had actually flipped a coin, it would be neither head nor tails, as our coins doesn't have heads and tails, but "plat" and "krone" instead)
And if we are talking simply on what you think has the highest chance, I would belive there is no god
@mhrby1985 And I want to qualify that right away, when I say I think the chances are higher that there is no God, my definition of God is a sentinent transcendent being that is supernatural and created everything and which was not created itself and which cares about human existance.
@mhrby1985 I used this as an example as intuition, I had no reason (higher precentage chance) to have faith in heads, I just trusted my intuition, then latter learned why it was correct. In this case the reason my intuition was correct was precentage, but I do not narrow what my intuition may discern to be based solely on precentages.
@Ataratha The power of the subconscious mind. While the conscious mind is not aware, your subconscious mind is fully aware it had seen more heads than tails and thus concluded that as a more likely result which lead to your intuition telling you to pick heads.
I find your position of Agnostic Theist quite reasonable, not far removed from my own position of Agnostic Atheist
@Ataratha If you prefer to belive due to what you feel your intuition tell you, or because it makes you feel good and connected to the cosmos when you focus your concentration on prayer, that is entirely your choise and right to do so,
I am myself, however, not convinced of anything without rational and logical reasons for it, emotional manipulation (not saying you tried this, but many have), emotional arguments, personal experiences that can't be replicated and so on will never convince me
@Ataratha In everyday life, we might say "oh, I belive you got the hidden quarter in your left hand".
When we talking about religious beliefs, we are not using the word in that sense.
If you belive in God, then you accept as true that God does exist.
And in the same context, if to the question "do you belive in God?" or "do you accept as true that God does exist?" you choose to answer anything but "yes", then you are an atheist, including "maybe" and "not sure"
@mhrby1985 I think maybe we have a problem with the definition of true for myself. Truth can have a variety of meanings, from the state of being the case, being in accord with a particular fact or reality, being in accord with the body of real things, events, actuality, or fidelity to an original or to a standard, truth "behind" everything, the ontological truth. Truth is your reality as you see it, there is no truth, only reality, and that is open to interpretation, like so so many things.
@Ataratha I believe nothing is beyond questioning, even belief, so in a way I probably don't think of belief as most people do, but for myself, it is something I strongly propose to be true, though it may not be, I leave room for doubt and interpretation.
@Ataratha I agree that nothing should be beyond questioning, but for me, the only thing that can persuade me to belive in something is evidence that supports the validity of a claim.
In the case of God, I been presented with lots of supposed evidence, which all falls down before scrutiny, as the conclusions and value of the evidence that is presented always, without exception, is interpreted with the presumption that God exists before the conclusion is valid, which is a logical fallacy
@Ataratha And while it doesn't really matter what Einstein belived or didn't belive, as authority does nothing to affect a positions truth value, I think one of his last (if not last) quotes about God is pretty clear:
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are neverthelels pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this"
@mhrby1985 "In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views." =Albert Einstein
It is profoundly ignorant to claim that there is no God, so that should upset someone like Albert Einstein when someone who makes such a claim would quote him to make him out to be of the same view as them.
To belive something, means to accept something as being true.
On the belief in God, meaning accepting that God exist must be true, I have not seen sufficient evidence to justify such a belief.
On the belief that there is no God, meaning accepting that God does not exist must be true, i have not seen sufficient evidence to justify such a belief.
The belief that God does not exist is profoundly ignorant as well, as you cannot prove a negative
@Ataratha I know this can be troublesome to understand if you are new to discussing issues such a this, because the actual truth value of God's existance is a dichotomy, either God exists and God does not exist, one of those options is true and the other is false, but your beliefs about those are not a dichotomy.
If I flipped a coin, and you could not see the result, you would not belive it was neither heads nor tails, even tho it would absolutely be one of those options
@Ataratha I know this can be hard to understand if you are new to discussing this, but just because the absolut truth value of God's existance is either God does exist or God does not exist, with no middleground, does not mean your beliefs about that truthvalue has to be either one or the other.
If I flipped a coin, it would be either heads or tails. If you could not see the result, would you have a belief (accept as true) that it was heads or tails, or would you not have any belief about it?
@mhrby1985 I trust my intuiion, if I had a strong gut reaction that it was one or the other then yes I would believe it was one or the other, until proved either way definitevely. Intuition has it's place and value. My intuition tells me (from praying as one source) there is a God. Could I be wrong? Yes, but until it can be proved beyond a doubt, I'll probably (never say never) believe.
I'm probably going to have to break this down into a couple comments. I am a huge gamer, and actually wandered over from a video on GMing. I consider myself religous, though a very unorthodox religous person. I happen to believe in God because I have looked inside myself and when I pray I feel as if there is something greater than myself in the universe, a benevolent Higher power. So having this belief, I want to respond and offer you some of my own personal beliefs conerning a higher power.
why cant people just accept that u cant disprove or prove god. u can beleive what u want to as long as u dont try and force your views on others and show no predujuce towards other not of your faith
Also note that God said to love your neighbor as you would God. I think that pretty much covers all bad deeds that could be done to others, including "rape".
So typical of "believers". No atheist with a brain cell will argue that there is any possibility of disproving the existence of a god Just because that can´t be proven does not mean that both sides are equally probable or even likely. I´m tired of hearing exponents of theist bullshit who to my mind seem to be wilfully ignorant to the point of making a virtue out of stupidity.
learn youre facts it says in the bible that god did not write the bible himself but man. So from that perspective of course the things that book hold are most likly lies what and people fight over them. Dont you think????
Rape, murder, war, hunger, war, and etc.. Results like those dont belong in a resume of a supreme being. IF he existed he's obviously so a father figure who doesn't care. Its all bout being a loving, caring, and loving person. Not believing in a GOD n thinkin there's a another life n not living life to the fullest. Religion is the biggest b.s story in history. Religion is for social control. 10 commandment is for control of population but if it keeps them sane then let them believe in god.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Typical atheist nob comparing god with unicorns and fairies. God sent jesus and mohammed with pure knowledge. Darwins was bumming monkeys. God gave the world enough food and water but rich countries exploit poor ones. Dont blame god. All humans have hope. Atheists hope there is no god, simple as that.
@mazbalboa This is not entirely true. Since god is omnipotent, he can stop these horrible things happening to people. An all powerful, all loving being could snap a finger, and all the bad things in the world, all the suffering would be extinguished. Don't respond with the free will thing either, because the free will of one effects the free will of another. simple as that.
well idont know if i get flamed for this but here goes. flood stories all over world could all be the same one or just a coincidence.expansion of the univeres .bible seems to mention the pangea continent when all lands were one. mention of dinosaurs but called a different name. predictions came/ coming true e.g remeber when the jews got kicked out of isreal scattered around the world then brought back.
The question should be what is God. The golden ratio, Max Planck's "Mind of the matrix", princeton's global consciousness project, the great pyramid etc... If you are informed on these subjects, it becomes clear that there is a higher intellegence at work in the world. Defining it is a bit harder.
None of those things you listed gives any reason to think there is a higher power behind everything, unless you're ignorant and assume that your limited imagination is the limit of reality. That you cannot find valid explanations for something, does not automatically make the explanation "God did it" or "higher intelligence did it" a valid explanation, it is a pathethic thing to insert done by those who are afraid to admit it when there is something that they do not know
I did not say a higher intellegence did it. what ever it is. But I think there is strong evidence that our consciousness is an extention of sonething beyond ourselves. Atheist and religions are no different in that they both try to define the undefinable. The truth is we don't know shit. Einstein went so far as to call reality a delusion of consciousness, which to the Hindu's would be called the Maya. This world make little sence the deeper you dig into reality
I agree that is a facinating line of thinking, as the only thing one can truly know with certainty is "I think, therefore I am", as everything else is dependant upon the brains interpretation of various organs interpretation of various kinds of information.
To belive something you see with your eyes, you have to assume (not know, assume) that your brain is rightfully interpreting the signals send from the eye and that the eye is correctly interpreting the wavelengths of the light reflections
@mhrby1985 Seeing a higher intelligence in the ordered harmony is not ignorant or one of limited imagination. In fact Einstein himself believed something along those lines. "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." and as far as "those who are afraid to admit it when there is something that they do not know " the same could be used as a counter arguement against you.
Your a logical guy. I have been waiting for an aitheist to make actual logical claims. You summed it up very nicely. I especially like your "evil" point.
a translation depends upon peoples ability to comprehend , since god's words are perfect no one will ever translate or explain them the way they must be explained , yet your question is answered in quran which clearly you didn't read .
this evil or diseases really proves my point ,that your atheism is pathetic and an emotional reaction , its not logical conclusion
Haha..you're funny. Illogical conclusion? This is coming from the mouth of someone who believes in something w/o a stitch of evidence. You have the same amount of evidence for the Lockness monster, IF NOT MORE. With your logic you must believe in that as well right. Or how about the keebler elves?
ACTUALLY science doesn't prove their's a god or their isn't one. Please read books besides the quran. Science actually shows it can be done and most probably has been done w/o a deity. Who said random chance made the universe? It's amazing how you assert and believe w/o a stitch of reason to believe. Please use simple logic to refute instead of trying with brute lying assertions. What are your scientific facts??? As if you had any. to "prove" or show the universe was created.
I asked for you scientific facts. Not for you to tell me what I accept or believe. It doesn't matter what any atheist thinks about the beginning of the universe, as long as they don't guess or assert w/o any evidence, which is something you are doing. You're making the claim, the burden is on you. Your god created the universe, then show that with some evidence. Btw, everything that ever happens to you or anyone is chance because the variability is endless. Where are your facts???
You said you had the science and facts, now you're saying those can't be used. It's fun watching you back into a corner. That's right, we don't have an ideology, we have facts. You can't just assert they are absurd you have to demonstrate how they are. So you must believe first then understand? Typical. Start with a conclusion and then find justification in a 2000 year old book. How about start with facts then draw a conclusion. We have seen no deity and have shown life can start w/o one
Actually started with facts , but I've seen you don't believe in them . and you never have facts , since logic gives the same conclusion always . any religious person must have faith or believe in the unseen but that doesn't prevent a wide area for logic and thinking . this old book is every were around you , if you find contradiction in it then you can disprove religion easily .
( if you have any so called "Facts" i will be happy to look at )
You haven't listed a stitch of facts. No where! What facts do you want. I never claimed I had facts that their is no god. I simply claimed that the lack of evidence for a god is reason not to think that their is one. You said it yourself, it takes faith. And if the evidence is all around us then I guess you don't need faith because it would be obvious. But everything around us just shows theirs stuff around us, not that theirs a god.
All of your books are full contradictions and bad science but every time someone points it out you ppl rationalize that the translation is wrong and their is only one perfect language. Evolution shows that all animals weren't created at one time but life has evolved over billions of years. Theirs one fact that has tons of evidence. Now it's up to you to actually look at it objectively and detach yourself from your book and realize that it's fact.
existence of universe is a major point that our mind demands an explanation for it whats yours . about faith ( unseen) see this evidence around us is just pointing to its creator, i wont start talking about "evolution" see we all agree that ( 1+1 = 2 ) but not all scientist agree to evolution since its not a fact .
we don't have books Islam have only one book " the quran " and I've read it uncountable times and never find one contradiction , study it by your self before repeating fallacies
You're right, it does demand an explanation. My explanation for it is that it exist. I have no reason to assert that a god(s) put it there. No one has any evidence of that. You just have faith and you believe but that's not reality. The evidence around us points out that things exist around us, not that a creator put them there. On the contrary, evolution is FACT, pick up another damn book and learn something. All scientist agree things evolve. The disagreement very rarely is how.
Well not even that so much. Just which is the main mechanism. Natural selection, environment, etc. Any and all credible scientist agree. We have cracked the human genome and the evidence is overwhelming. After you pick up a book, "The Greatest Show on Earth - Richard Dawkins, then look up a few videos from here. Actually learn something. You ppl are so self centered and naive. We're done. I have nothing left to say to you. Your ignorance blends into stupidity.
So your explanation for universe existence is that it " exist " wow that's new thing and you call this scientific method of thinking . since universe exists logic says their is a cause or something made it exists with a point or goal for its existence . you need to read books .
and their is another hilarious sentence of yours "we have cracked the human genome"
this actually disproves evolution you need to update your info.
Actually your words exposed you and shown me that you know nothing of what you wrote before
I'm electronics systems engineer and physician and i can tell that you know nothing and have zero, zilch, nada , argument or knowledge to back your illusions with .
your atheism is a failure to find an answer or believe in god , you have nothing but arrogance .
You're both an electronics engineer and physician? Wow. What is that like 20 years of schooling? Moron. I doubt you're either and even if you were it gives you no place to try and interpret biological evidence. The ppl who are qualified all agree, and evolution is fact.. Sorry. This is my last response. I can't continue to respond to your nonsense. Really, pick up a book that actually challenges your bias. I did as a christian 2 years ago. Still annoyed that I was lied to for so long.
Wow. The delusions you suffer, you can't even understand correctly. I said the existence needs an explanation and that your god explanation is supported by no evidence. Exactly how does unlocking the human genome disprove evolution? Maybe the fact that 95% of our genes are even used. Their left overs from evolution. Or the retrovirus' that are found in our genes can also be found in the exact same locations as other primates like chimps. Chances of that are astronomically huge.
I am not christain, but I do not agree about your evolution being proof argument. Where is the missing link? Explain the 10,000 ton megaliths a Balbek. Explain Max Planck's comments regarding the mind of the matrix.
First off, I disagree with your assertion that I'm using evolution as proof that god(s) does not exist. Evolution was discussed as a topic of science that has facts and evidence to support it unlike his concept of a god that created everything. His lack of evidence for a god is enough to discredit his hypothesis. That's the way science works. You have a hypothesis present your evidence.
If it doesn't support your hypothesis then toss it out. He has the same amount evidence for a god as he does for fairys and I'm quite sure he doesn't believe in them. What does the megaliths have to do with anything DayistorY and I were talking about? The matrix as well. I have no idea what he said about and I'm not about to go searching through thousands of comments. It has no bearing on what were were talking about.
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter. Max Planck
There are many quotes regarding consciousness from Einstein, Heisenberg, Bohr, Jung that do make you think there may be something more to it all.
So someone who had smart and clever ideas, made wrong assumptions; so what?
Whatever Max Planck, Einstein, Heisenberg, Borh or Jung thought about the world (Einstein was an atheist through, but thats irrelevant to the point) belived or postulated doesn't matter, unless those beliefs was justified and backed up by evidence and valid arguments.
Simply quoting Max Planck to show that he personally thought there had to be something behind existance of matter, does not prove there had to be.
The error in the specific quote by Max Planck you present, is that if someone said that to me (be he as credited as Max Planck or Einstein or whoever), I would immediately asks "Why must we assume that?", he simply states that he thinks that we have to assume this conscious and intelligent mind exists to explain the origin of matter.
That is an argument from ignorance, if not backed by justifications and evidence, simply displaying that HE could not imagine it being any other way.
No it is backed by evidence. Every heard of wave particle duality and the observer influencing the outcome by simple observation. The uncertainty principle also demonstrates that matter is dependent on an observer.
I think I will take the words of a Bunch of Nobel Prize winning particle physicist. I think they are smarter thn me, oh but I am ignorant. Go back and debate the retard christains, atleast you are the same in terms of being dogmatic.
See, now you are starting to back up your claims with arguments and observations (evidence), before you just quoted something, which by itself was worth nothing.
I don't see how you do the leap from quantum mechanics and outcome being influenced by observation and unto "and thus there is intelligent behind the creation of matter"
(not a quote)
Sure, they are smarter than most people, but even the smartest person can be wrong.
Also, I don't think I called you ignorant, I said your argument fitted a catagory of logical fallacies called "Arguments from ignorance", which was why I used the term ignorance, as to describe the argument you put forth, was not intended as a description of you personally, as that would be stupid of me and an ad hominem attack.
Actually you used "argument from authority", while the argument from authority you presented fitted "argument from ignorance"
I have not heard of those 2 you mentioned (Max Planck rings a bell, but not something I can remember without having to do some searching, which I might do later), but I can adress your "missing link" critique.
It is really simple: There will always be a missing link, due to the criteria of what qualifies of the missing link is constantly changed by the opponents of evolutionary theory.
"This universe existence have only two cases , either its infinte or its was nothing and once it existed ( created) .
so tell me " as if you had any " any other possibility i don't know ."
Another possibility is that this universe came about as part of a transformation of something else. Everything, including living organisms, are all made of the same stuff. All matter is essentially a dense form of energy. Perhaps this universe was a form of energy before it became what we know.
Alvin Plantinga actually poses a very good response to most of your points. Also the holy books were handed down to man through a divine channel therefor is flawed due to mans hand(according to religious mythology). I don't believe either but you gotta brush up on philosophy if you want to argue it
If the "holy books" aren't perfect, we have no way to know which parts are good and which parts are bad without using our own judgment.
That is to say, we didn't really have to read the books in the first place, because we're already capable of telling good from bad, or not, and the book can't change that.(Or at least not in any better way than secular books)
Certainly, it would be ridiculous for gods to punish people for not adhering to rules he never communicated properly.
to the christians that respond to this guy. Please don't pass judgement on him and say "he's not going to heaven" or "he's going to hell" Only God has that Power.
And maybe the holy books were writen for you, so that you will learn what is good and what is bad if your not smart enough to figure it out by yourself.
I think its like this, DO GOOD DEEDS, that is what most religions try to say and the fact of God existing or not has no real value. So if you are religious and do good deeds - good, if youre not religious and do good deeds - good, you and all ppl will benefit. But if you do bad deeds and say something like "i can do it cose i can, or cose i have free will, or cose no god exists" or any other reason, if you do bad deeds than your simply stupid.
Therefore, you can't prove if God exist or not, but you can say "if God exist, and if he is benevolent, believing in him is not that important". You can even say that an atheist who act selflessly is closer to a benevolent God than any deep religious man who make his choice according to his fear of the Lord or the hope of a reward.
And if God is not benevolent, therefore, you don't have any reason to put your faith in him.
If there is a Heaven, atheists and agnostics will be first to go there
Atheist, pagans, agnostics, can be pretty decent people, and they are clearly more altruistic when they do any moral choice or sacrifice for others than a religious man who expects that his choice will be rewarded in the afterlife.
If God is benevolent and value free will, then not believing in him is in his point of view a better choice than being obedient to his will.
If God is benevolent, he really should not care if you believe in him or not. He should even be wise enough to not care about whatever people believe or says about him (or he's just insecure which doesn't really fit with an all-mighty God) - therefore blasphemy should not be a sin in his eyes. If God cares about it, if he thinks that people who don't believe in him, hates him or believe in another God, must burn just because of that, then, he's just plain evil (or petty).
Plus lets face facts here. TheBible is NOT a rule book. it is a book of history and prophecy. It has rules in it but thats part of the history of The people of Isael. The Bible talks frequently on people "Ravishing women" but it's not God telling them to do so.
Jesus puts it best. Love your God, and Love people every thing else falls into place if you do that. Rape is not love, it's extreem hate. Both inwards and outwards.
1)Since you know so much about ppl dying of diarrhea, wat are you doin to help? Does that make you evil also?
2)No one said god wrote the bible. Its well known that its actually just a collection of letters written by people retelling jesus' journey (new testament).
1:30 bc a bunch of different men wrote it i'm sure god told some of them to write them others may have been mistaken or misunderstood him and in anser to your question its bc he is testing us
Such videos are a waste of time. This is faith we are talking about and faith is not measured by rational examination.
You are talking about something you don't really understand and you are attacking it from the wrong angle. I can put you up against a jewish Rabai and believe me, for every answer or question you have he will have a response for you and it is all connected and has a meaning eventually.
Now, I understand this is a response to someone asking to disprove the Judeo-Christian deity concept of the omni-'three'. But, for sake of argument, what if god isn't omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and that has either been placed in the myths by people, or as a direct lie from said god? For the record, I'm a 'casual' polytheist, and don't believe omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence is possible.
The last bit reminds me of quite a bit of the Gnostic stuff that I've read. The Demiurge or Creator God is essentially evil for it's inclusion of all the terrible things that you mention. We suffer because we are made to suffer etc etc
Infact, if he were to give us life in a silver platter, you would be a religious man, doing all but god. You would not be an athiest, you would nto have that hat, or that mustache and beardis you have. It would be all perfect, infact we all would be the same, like the same boring food for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Would you like that? Or would you like having your free will to decide on what to believe or what not to believe in?
Since he hasn't given us the rules (the holy books are obviously contradictory so it can't be his words anymore) we don't have any choice of whether to follow his rules or not as we aren't well informed to make that choice. True free will requires you to be well informed enough to make choices, otherwise you only think you do.
Have you read the Preacher graphic novel? I love the point it makes about god. Basically it's that if everyone would be happy in this world and there would be no suffering, then everybody would believe in god as his existence would be plainly evident... Yet that's not satisfying to him. However... If the god sees sees that some people STILL believe in him DESPITE all the atrocities bestowed upon human race, he gets a kick out it. It's an ego thing.
Sorry for the multiple post, but i think i over wrote some stuff. Again i am but an idiotic person who like to think he knows at least the minimum on religion. =)
I am not a very religious person. But there are a few flaws in your commentary.
1. I believe that the "Holy Book" was not written by "god" himself, but he spoke, to the specific purpose (Paul, John, Jeremiah) etc. So whatever "god" told each people that wrote their part of the "holy book" they interpreted differently, and not exactly as "god" intended to be.
How do you know he "spoke" to these people. It's pure conjecture on your part, and it's the same with every other faith. People need to believe in something in order to justify their lack of scientific understanding. You can't offer any tangible prove. Although, you'll always hear the same old arguments, "He moves in mysterious ways" or some such nonsense.
2. Why does "god" permits evil to be in the world? Why not just give you your life on a silver platter? Your asking for the purpose of life to be ruined and that all that famous question " why am I here, what is my purpose" would be defeated. Instead of us spending our money on necessary items but when we can use that money to chip in, and take care of our neighbors? Screw it, let "god" take care of it, right?
Why not just give your life on a silver platter? that's a question for YOU to answer, not me. I WOULD give everyone a life on a silver platter. That's because I'm moral.
Let god take care of it? You're damn right. He made the universe, it's his job to take care of it. You wouldn't tell this to a child with a pet, would you? It's the child's responsibility to take care of the pet, because the pet (us) obviously can't take care of ourselves.
Actually If you would give life on a silver platter to everyone you would deny them form their "free will" or choice they have in life, going back again to ruining the whole life experience throwing out that famous question "why am I here for what is my purpose?" or at least that's the way i see it. Its the whole human experience trial and error. without THAT our lives would be in a way senseless. IF "god" would give us all the knowledge there is we would not even be discussing this right now.
3. For those 9k years, we were mush brain, unable, to understand "god" words or "good news". Again, what every "revelation" "god" gave out, we as humans interpreted our own way. Reveal us Aspirin, technology? Again, why not just get our life trip on a silver platter.
You going off the concept of evultion, if you look at it through a creation stand point then we humans have only been around for about 6,000 years and not 96,000 years. but even if we were around for those 96, 000 years we have no proff that God did not guide man during that time. that staetment requires a staement of faith. does this help?
4. There is a comment on the "holy book" If you look at a woman lustfully you already committed sin. I think it makes a little bit more sense that hey, if that is bad maybe forcing myself is also bad.
5. Again, I believe god did not write this holy book but instead us. So all the flaws, all the mistranslations all on us.
The Bible was written by many men over a peroid of 1400 years, three languages, three countries. The book of Timothy says that all scripture is God breathed. some english translations put that as God inspired. Does this he
* than the human eye
ShaunHowells1029 3 weeks ago
Like your video! There is another argument that I would like to add. Many religious people I have talked to have used the 'design argument'. It basically means something as complicated as the human eye can't just happen by chance but surely if something that complicated can't just come into existence. What about god? We can't comprehend god. So surely if something as complicated as an eye can't just come into existence then why is god 'real'. Surely god is a lot harder to comprehend than the
ShaunHowells1029 3 weeks ago
Actually you can prove Santa and Unicorns dont exist . Because they HAVE A HISTORY. The modern Santa was the product of Harper magazine in the 1800. Unicorns came about during the Renaissance as a a symbol of purity and grace. Also there no unicorns walking about today and theirs no fossils. Take away religion. You cant prove the concept of god dose or doesn't exist unless you have infinite knowledge of the universe. Which no one haves. Beside there whole lot more we dont know then we know.
Tuber77 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You heard people say- "it will never be found", "it ain't true", "it just can't be".
I'm here to tell you these People are WRONG- I found it. Using Google Earth -
I found God's Watermarks of the REAL Garden of Eden. Look at my Channel and see the Video I made of it. I didn't point all of it out either- there are many things still hid for you to find. I even found 3 picture's of God. Come see.
downyourtube 2 months ago
There may be no laws which prohibit rape, but there are laws against adultery, which would include extramarital rape, and there are commands for husbands to love their wives. If a husband loved his wife, he would not want to rape her, loving her as his own flesh.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
@LMMEjsmith About the holy text, i don't believe God physically wrote the entire Bible. I believe that, while God authored it, humans took dictation. That any holy text would be written in an universal language seems unreasonable, but the original language the new testament was written in came close. Greek was the widest spread and understood language of that time, in that area.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
@LMMEjsmith You've still got a problem. The book exists under god's permission. If he wanted to correct it, he could.
He hasn't, so I assume he doesn't want to.
LordStrange 3 months ago
If God were to intervene in every instance of "evil", what would we learn? Let God handle it? Do nothing, it's not our responsibility? There are laws and commands in place to teach us, so that "evil" won't happen. Evil does happen because people choose to cause it or let it happen. Foreknowing an event does not mean people have no free will, it just means that our choices have been predicted.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
The purpose for creation is to give God glory, for God to share love, and to be loved in return. I have a daughter, i love her, i want her to love me, but even if i could force her to love me, i wouldn't, because love given without a choice is cold, programmed, and false. God wants us to want to obey, not to respond to programming.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
@LMMEjsmith The laws against adultery are gender specific. In other words, it's abut women cheating on their husbands. It doesn't go the other way around. So, rape is *not* covered by the adultery laws.
Besides, how easy would it be to make "Thou shall not rape" into the 10 Commandments? Why isn't it there? Instead, god wastes three commandments to say the same thing: "Obey me!"
LordStrange 3 months ago
@LordStrange Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery." That's not gender specific. Maybe God hasn't corrected it because He doesn't think it needs correcting. In any translation that i've read the basic gist is the same, the stories are the same, and the plan for salvation is the same.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
@LMMEjsmith Check with your local Rabbi about the translation. The connotation in the original Hebrew is "woman cheating on husband." The English doesn't have that connotation.
LordStrange 3 months ago
@LordStrange Ok, then, Leviticus 18:20 "moreover, thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbor's wife, to defile thyself with her." There's a few other instances where men are held responsible for adultery. Leviticus 20:10, and Deuteronomy 22:23-24. In that last one, the female is punished because she does not scream for help, which indicates to me that rape was looked down on. Genesis 34 has an account where a woman, neither married nor betrothed, is essentially raped, and the man is punished.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
@LMMEjsmith Youtube won't let me post links, so do a google search for "bible rape marriage punishment." the first link should be evil bible. check it out.
by the way, did you talk to your local Rabbi?
LordStrange 3 months ago
The assertion that God is good or evil seems to be based on human terms, as we understand them. If mankind were the measure of all things, then there would be no good or evil, because as logoRH mentions, they would be non absolutes. The scriptural assertion that God is good is not done based on human measures, but on God's measure. God, being good, is the ultimate universal standard for goodness. Anything that does not meet God's standard is what is evil.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
You cite unjust murder as a form of evil, but is the violence that the God of the old testament unjust? And i mean by the standard of the scriptures themselves. If you disagree with the reasons given for the violence, that is one thing, but if the scriptures themselves contradict the reasons given for the violence, that is something else.
LMMEjsmith 3 months ago in playlist More videos from LordStrange
to prove that something is of non-existence, it first have to exist. there is no solid evidence of GOD's existence so hows anyone going to disprove him is he doesn't exist!?
RokkuNoBushi 7 months ago
@LordStrange i didnt say i dont have them. You didnt asked for it. You asked how i know. I Answered. The Problem with "evidence" in this case is, what evidence would you accept? Archilogical? Scriptual? Historical? We also would have to Diskuss what evidence really is ect. ect. its nothing i could say in 500 Charakters. And of course, there is ne undiskussed evidance. There is also evidence, that all is wrong. Its History. Thats how it works.
shineshadow 8 months ago
...i would say its the same Thing with the Bibel and me. My Vater gave it to me, i red it, and i liked it. In Fakt i liked it even more, the more i understood about it. How do i know the Bibel is true? I could say thousands of Words, we could Diskuss this propably some Time. But you ask, why i know it. I know it, because it proof right to me. I lived after what is in this book, i prayed and God responced. I prayed and knew he was there. Its a little bit like falling in Love. You cant tell
shineshadow 8 months ago
@shineshadow So you have no more evidence than the Hindus or the Muslims or any other religion on the earth?
LordStrange 8 months ago
@LordStrange you say by yourself, for excample in the Video Play Dirty: The Magician from about 6:20 on, that we Make Pictures in our Minds. We Image how the Story or the Person is, we Read or hear about. Thats how we are. We think Storys. Thats how the Bibel (espacially the old Testament) is written. And Storys always have a large Variaty of interpretation. Some People really like games like DnD, i dont like them. But when i hear from a DnD nerd why he likes it, sometimes i would play it...
shineshadow 8 months ago
@LordStrange Simply because i have an other Perspective on the Bibel then the People you talked to obviously. Its like with the Statement "God is Good" Sure it stands in the Bibel. It sure does. But You would also say that your Girl-friend is good. But would never think you have discribed her whole self, do you?
shineshadow 8 months ago
@shineshadow How do you know the bible is true? In other words, what makes the bible different than any other book written by man?
LordStrange 8 months ago
...its a Book which shows us, what he has overcome with his People. What Persons have experienced with God. No Rulebook, ok.. maybe a little bit. But what Rules are here for anyway? Every Roleplayer knows you cant play with or without them. You need them to remember what you should do. I dont wanna start an Argument, i really dont. I just want to encurage everyone: Read the Bibel. Surprise yourself
shineshadow 8 months ago
@shineshadow I have read the Bible from cover to cover. It didn't impress me.
LordStrange 8 months ago
@shineshadow In fact, reading the Bible is what confirmed my atheism.
Besides, how do you know all of this about the god of the bible? How do you refute the claims of others when you are using the same source material?
LordStrange 8 months ago
...God is a living Beeing. To say God is Good would reduce him significantly. How good is a Father who dont cares what his Children do and love them anyway? I dont make any Statements like: God will punish anyone.. no.. thats what you say. I just say.. he cares. He really does. He also cares about the Children who die. He cares about me, and about you. He cared about Humanity no matter how long they are on earth. Why should he give them Science in his Book? The Bibel is no scientifical Guideline
shineshadow 8 months ago
...or the simple Fact that his History would have begun 4000 Years ago. Now the simple Fact is, that you havent really looked. You mentioned by yourself that you hate Reviewers "Have you even red the Book?" now i am asking you the same Thing. Have you red the Bibel? And i mean not just overlooked it, i mean red. Without your Atheist-glases on, or with the Words orther People said to you. If you read the Bibel you will recognize that there are no real absolute Statements about God, because of....
shineshadow 8 months ago
Hey John. First: i am german, so if my grammer is wrong, my apologizes. Second i like to say, that i really like your Videos and your Games, espacially the new one, called Houses of the Blooded. Its really nice to read and i really have the Feeling you care for the Players and what you think is best.
Its good you Ask Questions, but the Problem is, that you Argue with Arguments from People who have a really one pointed sight of view. The responses you Make are to Arguments like: God is good....
shineshadow 8 months ago
Deuteronomy 22:23-26 offers the death penalty for rape.
misterstarwars 1 year ago
@misterstarwars Actually, it doesn't. Modern translations have added "rape" to the text, but in the original Hebrew, it mentions nothing at all about rape.
If you want to learn about the Old Covenant, ask a Jew. He'll be happy to tell you all about it.
LordStrange 1 year ago
It's all blue car phenomenon. If you don't beleive in god, you'll find all the reasons god can't exist. If you do believe in god, you'll find all the reasons God does exist. Neither side will accept the other side's evidence as valid. big whell keep on turning, proud mary keep on rolling.
LordSathar 1 year ago
@LordSathar Nope. I'm willing to accept any evidence of god. So far, all I've heard is anecdote.
LordStrange 1 year ago
I am Muslim n I believe n follow Jesus,bible,Moses, toruh,ibrahaim,Salomon,David,Noah etc. The Quran wasn't written by muhammed cuzz muhammed was illiterate. But jabreel recited it to him then moe recited to the pplz around. The Quran never been changed nor edited. Through science I can proof the Quran is the book of god.
Goodyemani19 1 year ago
@Goodyemani19 You are triing to sell us another GOD´s BOOK?
Cmon...we are in the internet age, nobody read books nowadays.
roner61 1 year ago
I don't like it when people try to prove others wrong like this. If you have something good to proclaim, proclaim it. If you have a grievance against another group, air it. But I hate seeing people preach a negative doctrine (ex. "I don't know what's right, but THESE guys are WRONG" etc.) I believe that uplifting others by teaching what you know to be true is more profitable for everyone.
LanceVader 1 year ago
compelling, though what if the ultimate outcome is good (which I hope it will be)? How can we know the ultimate outcome and diffinitevely say that free will did not exist? Sorry for the length, felt I needed to share this though.
Ataratha 1 year ago
that we as humans would have a hard time grasping omnipotence. With things like schrodinger's cat and the two slit experiment we get the sense that all probabilities exist until observed, maybe God knows all probabilities at all time, or maybe all probabilities do exist simultaneously as suggested by the many worlds theory, and if that's the case free will maybe the manifistation of the reality you reside within. Of all your arguement I find the notion that God knows the outcome the most
Ataratha 1 year ago
- continued I tend to agree with Einstein's views on God, and he did believe in god, in a God that reveals himself in the harmony that exists. As far as determinism, predestination or free will, I am still struggling with my own views on such. In fact science used to hold a deterministic view of the universe but now, with things like wave function and such we have learned that the universe is probably not deterministic, that chance does exist. I think as far as omnipotence and knowing all
Ataratha 1 year ago
-continued As far as why does God allow bad things to happen, here is my answer. As a parent if your child was to fall down and hurt themselves, and you had the power to stop it, you would, correct? Now let's consider If stopping this child from falling everytime, the end reult is that they never learn to walk would you still catch them? I also do not believe in a typical form of damnation, I believe damnation is litterally a stopping of the progression towards god, a "damn" so to speak.
Ataratha 1 year ago
I think with the first section of the video you are giving yourself the answer to the last half of the video. The bible (whichever you use) was written by man. There is light and truth in them, but they are faulty. God (which I'll use as the name for this higher power) did not write them. I believe that each person's journey to god is their own to make and some understand that journey better with the use of these books, as long as they do not use thier beliefs to harm others should be allowed
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha If the Bible and Koran "have light" and are ways of finding god, why doesn't he correct them? Also, both the Bible and the Koran have conflicting claims about god. Why doesn't he make it clear which one it is? In other words, if the bible is "the rules" for the game of life, why doesn't the game designer give us a better set of rules?
LordStrange 1 year ago
@LordStrange I don't believe God is as active as that in our lives, as far as specifically fixing something. He made the rules of the universe, and they are discernable to us by reason, and the mind. The reason he doesn't make things clear, easy or perfect goes back to that doing so would leave us without opportunity for growth. As far as more than one set of rules, there is usually more than one way to arrive at the same solution, for me paths to God are similar.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha Also, about the entire free will debate, the problem is simple: If you are ALL knowing, ALL powerfull and ALL loving, 3 aspects that most Christians will claim fits God, then "free will" as a concept is simply not possible.
If he knows everything, absolutely everything, that means he would also know how people are going to react before they react. Actually, as he knows how everybody reacts, he could at the moment of creation see how you would react now and have changed it
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 I'm not "christian" by most people's definition, I'm closer to panathiest or buddhist, though neither quite describe my views.
As far as free will, determinism, and predestination, I'm not sure which is true, regardless of if a god does or does not exist. Science itself tends to point towards free will or chance as you will, not determinism.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha Well, not really asking about your views, but your definition of God specifically.
You say you belive there is a God; So when you say God, what does that word mean?
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha Then comes the problem of "sin".
If you are going to do something right now, that is considered a sin, then god created the universe, knowing that would you commit a sin now that he should judge you on.
But as he was all powerful, he would have had the power, at the moment of creation, to make such slight changes that everything stayed the same, except that one act of sin.
which brings me to the final part about the 3 aspects being impossible together
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha Either he knew and could have prevented you from commiting the sin, in which case he is not all loving, as he willfully judged you to eternity in hell for something he could have changed and knew you was going to do, which means you didnt have a choise, or no free will.
Or he knew and wanted to change it, but couldn't change it, which means he is not all powerfull.
Or he could and wanted to, but didn't know, and then he is not all knowing
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 I don't believe in the orthodox views of sin, I claim to be religous, I did not claim to be part of any organized religion.I do not believe in hell, I believe in "damnation', which is self imposed not deity impossed, a damning of the soul, as in a stopping of progression towards God.As far non-intervention from God I think the analogy of If you could stop your children from falling and getting hurt you would, but if doing so meant they would never learn to walk you would let them fall
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha Which is why I said most Christians and not specific it as you, sorry if it was not clear that I did not want to apply a label on you, as you hadn't provided any and instead I had to argument in a general sense of things.
So I assume that means that by your personal definition of God, God is not all powerfull, all knowing and all loving then?
Would you perhaps share your personal definition of God with me?
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 I would guess that if I had to try to define god it would be along the lines of omnipotent, all powerfull, and all knowing, but I also believe any defintion of god is flawed, much the same way that any observation we make is flawed because we can never remove the observer from the observed. To an extent the very nature of God is undefinable, mostly because of our own limited minds.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha A good answer with your definition, and glad to see an intellectual beliver for once, or well, not intelligent that makes me happy, but intelligent and honest to yourself and to others at the same time; I am sure some of the others I talked with was intelligent as well, but they were never honest enough to even suggest their concepts or definitions could potentially be flawed.
So in what way is God important to you then? It must have some importance or it would not be worth beliving
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 Thank you.I have very heavily questioned my belief in God before, and while I do believe in God, I am not above questioning and examining my own beliefs now and then. For me, when I pray I feel at one with the comos in a sense, part of something grander, and though this may be self delusion the benefits of self visualization and self reflection that accompany prayer are worth it to me. I truly feel a oneness and order when I study science and religion, and I want others to feel that.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha Sorry for basicly posting the same reply to you twice, but youtube wasn't updating the comments for me, so I thought my first replies had been lost.
I feel a connection to the cosmos too, but not due to prayer or any supernatural beliefs, but by making grand realizations based upon knowledge.
Once upon a time, way back in time, all matter and energy was connected, so once the atoms of my body touched the atoms of the stars in the other end of the galaxy.
That is truly mindblowing
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha If you trust a gut feeling so much that you would assert that you accept something as true based on that, then I feel slightly sorry for you.
I do not feel sorry for you, however, because I think we are using different definition of belief here, at least I hope you do not understand what I mean, when I tell you that in the right context, belief means to accept something as being true.
We have a everyday definition of belief that differs from the real one, just like theory in science
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 Not just a gut feeling but intuition. for example, before I ever learned that when flipping a coin you have a slightly higher percentage chance of landing on heads because of the slight weight differences on each side, even as a child my intuition told me to always go with heads, based on my experience, but not readily able to prove why at the moment, that's how I see my belief.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha Really? that is a neat little fact I didn't know, I usually know such facts, but then again, as a non-american who use another currency than dollars, our coin designs are rather different (which also means my examples was quite tricky, as if I had actually flipped a coin, it would be neither head nor tails, as our coins doesn't have heads and tails, but "plat" and "krone" instead)
And if we are talking simply on what you think has the highest chance, I would belive there is no god
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 And I want to qualify that right away, when I say I think the chances are higher that there is no God, my definition of God is a sentinent transcendent being that is supernatural and created everything and which was not created itself and which cares about human existance.
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 I used this as an example as intuition, I had no reason (higher precentage chance) to have faith in heads, I just trusted my intuition, then latter learned why it was correct. In this case the reason my intuition was correct was precentage, but I do not narrow what my intuition may discern to be based solely on precentages.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha The power of the subconscious mind. While the conscious mind is not aware, your subconscious mind is fully aware it had seen more heads than tails and thus concluded that as a more likely result which lead to your intuition telling you to pick heads.
I find your position of Agnostic Theist quite reasonable, not far removed from my own position of Agnostic Atheist
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha If you prefer to belive due to what you feel your intuition tell you, or because it makes you feel good and connected to the cosmos when you focus your concentration on prayer, that is entirely your choise and right to do so,
I am myself, however, not convinced of anything without rational and logical reasons for it, emotional manipulation (not saying you tried this, but many have), emotional arguments, personal experiences that can't be replicated and so on will never convince me
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha In everyday life, we might say "oh, I belive you got the hidden quarter in your left hand".
When we talking about religious beliefs, we are not using the word in that sense.
If you belive in God, then you accept as true that God does exist.
And in the same context, if to the question "do you belive in God?" or "do you accept as true that God does exist?" you choose to answer anything but "yes", then you are an atheist, including "maybe" and "not sure"
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 I think maybe we have a problem with the definition of true for myself. Truth can have a variety of meanings, from the state of being the case, being in accord with a particular fact or reality, being in accord with the body of real things, events, actuality, or fidelity to an original or to a standard, truth "behind" everything, the ontological truth. Truth is your reality as you see it, there is no truth, only reality, and that is open to interpretation, like so so many things.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha I believe nothing is beyond questioning, even belief, so in a way I probably don't think of belief as most people do, but for myself, it is something I strongly propose to be true, though it may not be, I leave room for doubt and interpretation.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha I agree that nothing should be beyond questioning, but for me, the only thing that can persuade me to belive in something is evidence that supports the validity of a claim.
In the case of God, I been presented with lots of supposed evidence, which all falls down before scrutiny, as the conclusions and value of the evidence that is presented always, without exception, is interpreted with the presumption that God exists before the conclusion is valid, which is a logical fallacy
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha And while it doesn't really matter what Einstein belived or didn't belive, as authority does nothing to affect a positions truth value, I think one of his last (if not last) quotes about God is pretty clear:
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are neverthelels pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this"
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 "In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views." =Albert Einstein
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha So what?
It is profoundly ignorant to claim that there is no God, so that should upset someone like Albert Einstein when someone who makes such a claim would quote him to make him out to be of the same view as them.
Atheism is not saying "I belive there is no God".
Atheism is not beliving in a God.
Very big difference between those two
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 So you believe there is a God but choose not to believe in him/it/her?
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha No, that is not the case.
To belive something, means to accept something as being true.
On the belief in God, meaning accepting that God exist must be true, I have not seen sufficient evidence to justify such a belief.
On the belief that there is no God, meaning accepting that God does not exist must be true, i have not seen sufficient evidence to justify such a belief.
The belief that God does not exist is profoundly ignorant as well, as you cannot prove a negative
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha I know this can be troublesome to understand if you are new to discussing issues such a this, because the actual truth value of God's existance is a dichotomy, either God exists and God does not exist, one of those options is true and the other is false, but your beliefs about those are not a dichotomy.
If I flipped a coin, and you could not see the result, you would not belive it was neither heads nor tails, even tho it would absolutely be one of those options
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@Ataratha I know this can be hard to understand if you are new to discussing this, but just because the absolut truth value of God's existance is either God does exist or God does not exist, with no middleground, does not mean your beliefs about that truthvalue has to be either one or the other.
If I flipped a coin, it would be either heads or tails. If you could not see the result, would you have a belief (accept as true) that it was heads or tails, or would you not have any belief about it?
mhrby1985 1 year ago
@mhrby1985 I trust my intuiion, if I had a strong gut reaction that it was one or the other then yes I would believe it was one or the other, until proved either way definitevely. Intuition has it's place and value. My intuition tells me (from praying as one source) there is a God. Could I be wrong? Yes, but until it can be proved beyond a doubt, I'll probably (never say never) believe.
Ataratha 1 year ago
I'm probably going to have to break this down into a couple comments. I am a huge gamer, and actually wandered over from a video on GMing. I consider myself religous, though a very unorthodox religous person. I happen to believe in God because I have looked inside myself and when I pray I feel as if there is something greater than myself in the universe, a benevolent Higher power. So having this belief, I want to respond and offer you some of my own personal beliefs conerning a higher power.
Ataratha 1 year ago
lol..just another fatass pig with empty coconut shell..:) gain KNOWLEDGE first before posing before the cam..lol
clydedoris 1 year ago
why cant people just accept that u cant disprove or prove god. u can beleive what u want to as long as u dont try and force your views on others and show no predujuce towards other not of your faith
jamey72 1 year ago
@LordStrange
Also note that God said to love your neighbor as you would God. I think that pretty much covers all bad deeds that could be done to others, including "rape".
locoyo386 1 year ago
@LordStrange
"perfect book?"
Why would God not provide us with a perfect existence?
locoyo386 1 year ago
@LordStrange
How can you possibly know "intention" and "consequence" of something you do not even believe in?
locoyo386 1 year ago
God exitst, accept it or ignore it, it's your choice.
locoyo386 1 year ago
So typical of "believers". No atheist with a brain cell will argue that there is any possibility of disproving the existence of a god Just because that can´t be proven does not mean that both sides are equally probable or even likely. I´m tired of hearing exponents of theist bullshit who to my mind seem to be wilfully ignorant to the point of making a virtue out of stupidity.
yatter1 1 year ago
you ask the wrong questions
TheMasterOfTheFrets 1 year ago
you know what? I was sooo distracted by the mess in your house... i saw your room and thought omg he needs to clean up...lol... sorry :)
cindyknowsitall 1 year ago
learn youre facts it says in the bible that god did not write the bible himself but man. So from that perspective of course the things that book hold are most likly lies what and people fight over them. Dont you think????
spwn6000 1 year ago
Rape, murder, war, hunger, war, and etc.. Results like those dont belong in a resume of a supreme being. IF he existed he's obviously so a father figure who doesn't care. Its all bout being a loving, caring, and loving person. Not believing in a GOD n thinkin there's a another life n not living life to the fullest. Religion is the biggest b.s story in history. Religion is for social control. 10 commandment is for control of population but if it keeps them sane then let them believe in god.
MrKnockOutLA 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Typical atheist nob comparing god with unicorns and fairies. God sent jesus and mohammed with pure knowledge. Darwins was bumming monkeys. God gave the world enough food and water but rich countries exploit poor ones. Dont blame god. All humans have hope. Atheists hope there is no god, simple as that.
mazbalboa 2 years ago
@mazbalboa You are a clown.
Scanini 2 years ago 2
@mazbalboa This is not entirely true. Since god is omnipotent, he can stop these horrible things happening to people. An all powerful, all loving being could snap a finger, and all the bad things in the world, all the suffering would be extinguished. Don't respond with the free will thing either, because the free will of one effects the free will of another. simple as that.
skywize 1 year ago
Very good video LordStrange. Very well thought out and presented
Slixors 2 years ago
well idont know if i get flamed for this but here goes. flood stories all over world could all be the same one or just a coincidence.expansion of the univeres .bible seems to mention the pangea continent when all lands were one. mention of dinosaurs but called a different name. predictions came/ coming true e.g remeber when the jews got kicked out of isreal scattered around the world then brought back.
strange isn't it?
from what i've read it all seems to add up.
swordmonkey05 2 years ago
@swordmonkey05
The question should be what is God. The golden ratio, Max Planck's "Mind of the matrix", princeton's global consciousness project, the great pyramid etc... If you are informed on these subjects, it becomes clear that there is a higher intellegence at work in the world. Defining it is a bit harder.
TheWillwillwill 2 years ago
None of those things you listed gives any reason to think there is a higher power behind everything, unless you're ignorant and assume that your limited imagination is the limit of reality. That you cannot find valid explanations for something, does not automatically make the explanation "God did it" or "higher intelligence did it" a valid explanation, it is a pathethic thing to insert done by those who are afraid to admit it when there is something that they do not know
mhrby1985 2 years ago
I did not say a higher intellegence did it. what ever it is. But I think there is strong evidence that our consciousness is an extention of sonething beyond ourselves. Atheist and religions are no different in that they both try to define the undefinable. The truth is we don't know shit. Einstein went so far as to call reality a delusion of consciousness, which to the Hindu's would be called the Maya. This world make little sence the deeper you dig into reality
TheWillwillwill 2 years ago
I agree that is a facinating line of thinking, as the only thing one can truly know with certainty is "I think, therefore I am", as everything else is dependant upon the brains interpretation of various organs interpretation of various kinds of information.
To belive something you see with your eyes, you have to assume (not know, assume) that your brain is rightfully interpreting the signals send from the eye and that the eye is correctly interpreting the wavelengths of the light reflections
mhrby1985 2 years ago
@mhrby1985 Seeing a higher intelligence in the ordered harmony is not ignorant or one of limited imagination. In fact Einstein himself believed something along those lines. "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." and as far as "those who are afraid to admit it when there is something that they do not know " the same could be used as a counter arguement against you.
Ataratha 1 year ago
@Ataratha You impose a higher intelligence into the harmony of certain aspects of nature and reality.
That is an assertion, a claim you are making, you canont just infer design by a higher intelligence, that is something you will have to demonstrate.
I am not saying it is not possible, I am saying "I do not know"
What have I claimed to know, that I do not know?
You are making a subtle claim that you know a higher intelligence is behind it, you got the burden of proof
mhrby1985 1 year ago
Your a logical guy. I have been waiting for an aitheist to make actual logical claims. You summed it up very nicely. I especially like your "evil" point.
mgeno216 2 years ago
a translation depends upon peoples ability to comprehend , since god's words are perfect no one will ever translate or explain them the way they must be explained , yet your question is answered in quran which clearly you didn't read .
this evil or diseases really proves my point ,that your atheism is pathetic and an emotional reaction , its not logical conclusion
DayiStorY 2 years ago
Haha..you're funny. Illogical conclusion? This is coming from the mouth of someone who believes in something w/o a stitch of evidence. You have the same amount of evidence for the Lockness monster, IF NOT MORE. With your logic you must believe in that as well right. Or how about the keebler elves?
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
i expect such response , See this way of thinking you people have really " absurd "
Yes ,logical conclusion you say random or chance made universe , i say god . your chance is refuted by simple logic and scientific facts .
God " allah" didn't create the universe and all beings and left them he did send prophets to remember people of their creator and worship him .
DayiStorY 2 years ago
ACTUALLY science doesn't prove their's a god or their isn't one. Please read books besides the quran. Science actually shows it can be done and most probably has been done w/o a deity. Who said random chance made the universe? It's amazing how you assert and believe w/o a stitch of reason to believe. Please use simple logic to refute instead of trying with brute lying assertions. What are your scientific facts??? As if you had any. to "prove" or show the universe was created.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
Well , chance or random is atheists only justification to get out of this issue , if you are amazingly have new one please let me know .
lets try this , This universe existence have only two cases , either its infinte or its was nothing and once it existed ( created) .
so tell me " as if you had any " any other possibility i don't know .
DayiStorY 2 years ago
I asked for you scientific facts. Not for you to tell me what I accept or believe. It doesn't matter what any atheist thinks about the beginning of the universe, as long as they don't guess or assert w/o any evidence, which is something you are doing. You're making the claim, the burden is on you. Your god created the universe, then show that with some evidence. Btw, everything that ever happens to you or anyone is chance because the variability is endless. Where are your facts???
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
If by scientific fact you mean you want to see god in this life , then you wont .
and this your problem atheists , you don't have one solid ideology each one of you have his own justifications or arguments which are plain absurd .
proofs are unlimited but enough to say that this organized complex universe leads to wise and powerful creator , since nothing gives nothing .
next step to proof Islam is the true religion of god , you have to study Islam and understand quran .
DayiStorY 2 years ago
You said you had the science and facts, now you're saying those can't be used. It's fun watching you back into a corner. That's right, we don't have an ideology, we have facts. You can't just assert they are absurd you have to demonstrate how they are. So you must believe first then understand? Typical. Start with a conclusion and then find justification in a 2000 year old book. How about start with facts then draw a conclusion. We have seen no deity and have shown life can start w/o one
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
Actually started with facts , but I've seen you don't believe in them . and you never have facts , since logic gives the same conclusion always . any religious person must have faith or believe in the unseen but that doesn't prevent a wide area for logic and thinking . this old book is every were around you , if you find contradiction in it then you can disprove religion easily .
( if you have any so called "Facts" i will be happy to look at )
DayiStorY 2 years ago
You haven't listed a stitch of facts. No where! What facts do you want. I never claimed I had facts that their is no god. I simply claimed that the lack of evidence for a god is reason not to think that their is one. You said it yourself, it takes faith. And if the evidence is all around us then I guess you don't need faith because it would be obvious. But everything around us just shows theirs stuff around us, not that theirs a god.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
All of your books are full contradictions and bad science but every time someone points it out you ppl rationalize that the translation is wrong and their is only one perfect language. Evolution shows that all animals weren't created at one time but life has evolved over billions of years. Theirs one fact that has tons of evidence. Now it's up to you to actually look at it objectively and detach yourself from your book and realize that it's fact.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
existence of universe is a major point that our mind demands an explanation for it whats yours . about faith ( unseen) see this evidence around us is just pointing to its creator, i wont start talking about "evolution" see we all agree that ( 1+1 = 2 ) but not all scientist agree to evolution since its not a fact .
we don't have books Islam have only one book " the quran " and I've read it uncountable times and never find one contradiction , study it by your self before repeating fallacies
DayiStorY 2 years ago
You're right, it does demand an explanation. My explanation for it is that it exist. I have no reason to assert that a god(s) put it there. No one has any evidence of that. You just have faith and you believe but that's not reality. The evidence around us points out that things exist around us, not that a creator put them there. On the contrary, evolution is FACT, pick up another damn book and learn something. All scientist agree things evolve. The disagreement very rarely is how.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
Well not even that so much. Just which is the main mechanism. Natural selection, environment, etc. Any and all credible scientist agree. We have cracked the human genome and the evidence is overwhelming. After you pick up a book, "The Greatest Show on Earth - Richard Dawkins, then look up a few videos from here. Actually learn something. You ppl are so self centered and naive. We're done. I have nothing left to say to you. Your ignorance blends into stupidity.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
So your explanation for universe existence is that it " exist " wow that's new thing and you call this scientific method of thinking . since universe exists logic says their is a cause or something made it exists with a point or goal for its existence . you need to read books .
and their is another hilarious sentence of yours "we have cracked the human genome"
this actually disproves evolution you need to update your info.
DayiStorY 2 years ago
Actually your words exposed you and shown me that you know nothing of what you wrote before
I'm electronics systems engineer and physician and i can tell that you know nothing and have zero, zilch, nada , argument or knowledge to back your illusions with .
your atheism is a failure to find an answer or believe in god , you have nothing but arrogance .
DayiStorY 2 years ago
You're both an electronics engineer and physician? Wow. What is that like 20 years of schooling? Moron. I doubt you're either and even if you were it gives you no place to try and interpret biological evidence. The ppl who are qualified all agree, and evolution is fact.. Sorry. This is my last response. I can't continue to respond to your nonsense. Really, pick up a book that actually challenges your bias. I did as a christian 2 years ago. Still annoyed that I was lied to for so long.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
Wow. The delusions you suffer, you can't even understand correctly. I said the existence needs an explanation and that your god explanation is supported by no evidence. Exactly how does unlocking the human genome disprove evolution? Maybe the fact that 95% of our genes are even used. Their left overs from evolution. Or the retrovirus' that are found in our genes can also be found in the exact same locations as other primates like chimps. Chances of that are astronomically huge.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
I am not christain, but I do not agree about your evolution being proof argument. Where is the missing link? Explain the 10,000 ton megaliths a Balbek. Explain Max Planck's comments regarding the mind of the matrix.
TheWillwillwill 2 years ago
First off, I disagree with your assertion that I'm using evolution as proof that god(s) does not exist. Evolution was discussed as a topic of science that has facts and evidence to support it unlike his concept of a god that created everything. His lack of evidence for a god is enough to discredit his hypothesis. That's the way science works. You have a hypothesis present your evidence.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
If it doesn't support your hypothesis then toss it out. He has the same amount evidence for a god as he does for fairys and I'm quite sure he doesn't believe in them. What does the megaliths have to do with anything DayistorY and I were talking about? The matrix as well. I have no idea what he said about and I'm not about to go searching through thousands of comments. It has no bearing on what were were talking about.
rsxfreak03 2 years ago
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter. Max Planck
There are many quotes regarding consciousness from Einstein, Heisenberg, Bohr, Jung that do make you think there may be something more to it all.
TheWillwillwill 2 years ago
So someone who had smart and clever ideas, made wrong assumptions; so what?
Whatever Max Planck, Einstein, Heisenberg, Borh or Jung thought about the world (Einstein was an atheist through, but thats irrelevant to the point) belived or postulated doesn't matter, unless those beliefs was justified and backed up by evidence and valid arguments.
Simply quoting Max Planck to show that he personally thought there had to be something behind existance of matter, does not prove there had to be.
mhrby1985 2 years ago
The error in the specific quote by Max Planck you present, is that if someone said that to me (be he as credited as Max Planck or Einstein or whoever), I would immediately asks "Why must we assume that?", he simply states that he thinks that we have to assume this conscious and intelligent mind exists to explain the origin of matter.
That is an argument from ignorance, if not backed by justifications and evidence, simply displaying that HE could not imagine it being any other way.
mhrby1985 2 years ago
No it is backed by evidence. Every heard of wave particle duality and the observer influencing the outcome by simple observation. The uncertainty principle also demonstrates that matter is dependent on an observer.
I think I will take the words of a Bunch of Nobel Prize winning particle physicist. I think they are smarter thn me, oh but I am ignorant. Go back and debate the retard christains, atleast you are the same in terms of being dogmatic.
TheWillwillwill 2 years ago
By which am I dogmatic?
See, now you are starting to back up your claims with arguments and observations (evidence), before you just quoted something, which by itself was worth nothing.
I don't see how you do the leap from quantum mechanics and outcome being influenced by observation and unto "and thus there is intelligent behind the creation of matter"
(not a quote)
Sure, they are smarter than most people, but even the smartest person can be wrong.
mhrby1985 2 years ago
Also, I don't think I called you ignorant, I said your argument fitted a catagory of logical fallacies called "Arguments from ignorance", which was why I used the term ignorance, as to describe the argument you put forth, was not intended as a description of you personally, as that would be stupid of me and an ad hominem attack.
Actually you used "argument from authority", while the argument from authority you presented fitted "argument from ignorance"
mhrby1985 2 years ago
What missing link are you refering to?
I have not heard of those 2 you mentioned (Max Planck rings a bell, but not something I can remember without having to do some searching, which I might do later), but I can adress your "missing link" critique.
It is really simple: There will always be a missing link, due to the criteria of what qualifies of the missing link is constantly changed by the opponents of evolutionary theory.
mhrby1985 2 years ago
Imagine the Evolutionary progress as a 50 feet piece of rope.
One end is the start, we will call this point for X
The other end we call Y.
X represent a previous state, for instance the common ancestor for humans and other living primates.
Y represents current human state (homo sapiens)
Now, we can find point A, which is halfway between X and Y.
That just means we are now missing 2 things, the midpoint between X and A and the midpoint between A and Y.
We know of many transitional forms
mhrby1985 2 years ago
@DayiStorY
"This universe existence have only two cases , either its infinte or its was nothing and once it existed ( created) .
so tell me " as if you had any " any other possibility i don't know ."
Another possibility is that this universe came about as part of a transformation of something else. Everything, including living organisms, are all made of the same stuff. All matter is essentially a dense form of energy. Perhaps this universe was a form of energy before it became what we know.
JamesMorlan 2 years ago
Good answer but taking 10 minutes means the guy asking the question does not get a chance to digest the answer.
MicrosoftsourceCode 2 years ago
Alvin Plantinga actually poses a very good response to most of your points. Also the holy books were handed down to man through a divine channel therefor is flawed due to mans hand(according to religious mythology). I don't believe either but you gotta brush up on philosophy if you want to argue it
elcrasho 2 years ago
If the "holy books" aren't perfect, we have no way to know which parts are good and which parts are bad without using our own judgment.
That is to say, we didn't really have to read the books in the first place, because we're already capable of telling good from bad, or not, and the book can't change that.(Or at least not in any better way than secular books)
Certainly, it would be ridiculous for gods to punish people for not adhering to rules he never communicated properly.
Gnomefro 2 years ago
to the christians that respond to this guy. Please don't pass judgement on him and say "he's not going to heaven" or "he's going to hell" Only God has that Power.
I'm not an atheist
MrPrior69 2 years ago
And maybe the holy books were writen for you, so that you will learn what is good and what is bad if your not smart enough to figure it out by yourself.
rewolwerowiec 2 years ago
I think its like this, DO GOOD DEEDS, that is what most religions try to say and the fact of God existing or not has no real value. So if you are religious and do good deeds - good, if youre not religious and do good deeds - good, you and all ppl will benefit. But if you do bad deeds and say something like "i can do it cose i can, or cose i have free will, or cose no god exists" or any other reason, if you do bad deeds than your simply stupid.
rewolwerowiec 2 years ago
I don't know what religeon you believe in, but christianity teaches it is grace through faith and not of works...
MrPrior69 2 years ago
You wear The Yellow Sign, which makes you automatically evil!
UncleAntitheist 2 years ago
Therefore, you can't prove if God exist or not, but you can say "if God exist, and if he is benevolent, believing in him is not that important". You can even say that an atheist who act selflessly is closer to a benevolent God than any deep religious man who make his choice according to his fear of the Lord or the hope of a reward.
And if God is not benevolent, therefore, you don't have any reason to put your faith in him.
If there is a Heaven, atheists and agnostics will be first to go there
denyscorel 2 years ago
Atheist, pagans, agnostics, can be pretty decent people, and they are clearly more altruistic when they do any moral choice or sacrifice for others than a religious man who expects that his choice will be rewarded in the afterlife.
If God is benevolent and value free will, then not believing in him is in his point of view a better choice than being obedient to his will.
denyscorel 2 years ago 2
Why the hell are you lumping pagans in with atheists and agnostics?
Paganism is the total opposite of atheism. Even moreso that the monotheistic religions.
Nyarlathoteplol 2 years ago
If God is benevolent, he really should not care if you believe in him or not. He should even be wise enough to not care about whatever people believe or says about him (or he's just insecure which doesn't really fit with an all-mighty God) - therefore blasphemy should not be a sin in his eyes. If God cares about it, if he thinks that people who don't believe in him, hates him or believe in another God, must burn just because of that, then, he's just plain evil (or petty).
denyscorel 2 years ago
Plus lets face facts here. TheBible is NOT a rule book. it is a book of history and prophecy. It has rules in it but thats part of the history of The people of Isael. The Bible talks frequently on people "Ravishing women" but it's not God telling them to do so.
Jesus puts it best. Love your God, and Love people every thing else falls into place if you do that. Rape is not love, it's extreem hate. Both inwards and outwards.
MrPrior69 2 years ago
1)Since you know so much about ppl dying of diarrhea, wat are you doin to help? Does that make you evil also?
2)No one said god wrote the bible. Its well known that its actually just a collection of letters written by people retelling jesus' journey (new testament).
loutasrb26 2 years ago
what the hell? what the fuck do you want him to do about it? lmao
Hottielvr 2 years ago
1:30 bc a bunch of different men wrote it i'm sure god told some of them to write them others may have been mistaken or misunderstood him and in anser to your question its bc he is testing us
Magiclukie 2 years ago
1:30 it was written by man and its a test
Magiclukie 2 years ago
Faith evolved for thousands of years, don't persume to thwart it in a single video :-)
yossieven 2 years ago
John,
Such videos are a waste of time. This is faith we are talking about and faith is not measured by rational examination.
You are talking about something you don't really understand and you are attacking it from the wrong angle. I can put you up against a jewish Rabai and believe me, for every answer or question you have he will have a response for you and it is all connected and has a meaning eventually.
yossieven 2 years ago
U can disprove that men can get pregnant.
jt13dabest 2 years ago
Invisible garage dragon FTW!
uberllama42 2 years ago
Now, I understand this is a response to someone asking to disprove the Judeo-Christian deity concept of the omni-'three'. But, for sake of argument, what if god isn't omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and that has either been placed in the myths by people, or as a direct lie from said god? For the record, I'm a 'casual' polytheist, and don't believe omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence is possible.
lighttigersoul 2 years ago
The last bit reminds me of quite a bit of the Gnostic stuff that I've read. The Demiurge or Creator God is essentially evil for it's inclusion of all the terrible things that you mention. We suffer because we are made to suffer etc etc
nlp3000 2 years ago
Comment removed
nlp3000 2 years ago
Infact, if he were to give us life in a silver platter, you would be a religious man, doing all but god. You would not be an athiest, you would nto have that hat, or that mustache and beardis you have. It would be all perfect, infact we all would be the same, like the same boring food for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Would you like that? Or would you like having your free will to decide on what to believe or what not to believe in?
nemoxhoek 2 years ago
Since he hasn't given us the rules (the holy books are obviously contradictory so it can't be his words anymore) we don't have any choice of whether to follow his rules or not as we aren't well informed to make that choice. True free will requires you to be well informed enough to make choices, otherwise you only think you do.
TheMockFrog 2 years ago
1. The claim that "The Holy Book" is the word of god. Agreed, there is ample evidence that this can't be literal.
2. Evil exists and therefore God can't be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient plus good.
Well, I kind of like it that I am not a puppet. Think of a game that is all goodies and no challenge. What fun is that? None. Missing the point.
3. If you are correct with 1. being a false claim then you can't argument with it here. You can't disprove/prove anything based a false statement.
jerzykowalskiShosa 2 years ago
Hi John!
Have you read the Preacher graphic novel? I love the point it makes about god. Basically it's that if everyone would be happy in this world and there would be no suffering, then everybody would believe in god as his existence would be plainly evident... Yet that's not satisfying to him. However... If the god sees sees that some people STILL believe in him DESPITE all the atrocities bestowed upon human race, he gets a kick out it. It's an ego thing.
Gotta love that point. Cheers!
hathiphnath 2 years ago
Sorry for the multiple post, but i think i over wrote some stuff. Again i am but an idiotic person who like to think he knows at least the minimum on religion. =)
nemoxhoek 2 years ago
I am not a very religious person. But there are a few flaws in your commentary.
1. I believe that the "Holy Book" was not written by "god" himself, but he spoke, to the specific purpose (Paul, John, Jeremiah) etc. So whatever "god" told each people that wrote their part of the "holy book" they interpreted differently, and not exactly as "god" intended to be.
nemoxhoek 2 years ago
How do you know he "spoke" to these people. It's pure conjecture on your part, and it's the same with every other faith. People need to believe in something in order to justify their lack of scientific understanding. You can't offer any tangible prove. Although, you'll always hear the same old arguments, "He moves in mysterious ways" or some such nonsense.
DeTzardis 2 years ago
2. Why does "god" permits evil to be in the world? Why not just give you your life on a silver platter? Your asking for the purpose of life to be ruined and that all that famous question " why am I here, what is my purpose" would be defeated. Instead of us spending our money on necessary items but when we can use that money to chip in, and take care of our neighbors? Screw it, let "god" take care of it, right?
nemoxhoek 2 years ago
Why not just give your life on a silver platter? that's a question for YOU to answer, not me. I WOULD give everyone a life on a silver platter. That's because I'm moral.
Let god take care of it? You're damn right. He made the universe, it's his job to take care of it. You wouldn't tell this to a child with a pet, would you? It's the child's responsibility to take care of the pet, because the pet (us) obviously can't take care of ourselves.
LordStrange 2 years ago
Actually If you would give life on a silver platter to everyone you would deny them form their "free will" or choice they have in life, going back again to ruining the whole life experience throwing out that famous question "why am I here for what is my purpose?" or at least that's the way i see it. Its the whole human experience trial and error. without THAT our lives would be in a way senseless. IF "god" would give us all the knowledge there is we would not even be discussing this right now.
nemoxhoek 2 years ago
3. For those 9k years, we were mush brain, unable, to understand "god" words or "good news". Again, what every "revelation" "god" gave out, we as humans interpreted our own way. Reveal us Aspirin, technology? Again, why not just get our life trip on a silver platter.
nemoxhoek 2 years ago
But God made us that way. Why not make us a little smarter and give us all the information we needed at the beginning?
Again, you are justifying 96,000 years of unnecessary suffering. Causing billions of lives unnecessary suffering is just evil.
LordStrange 2 years ago
You going off the concept of evultion, if you look at it through a creation stand point then we humans have only been around for about 6,000 years and not 96,000 years. but even if we were around for those 96, 000 years we have no proff that God did not guide man during that time. that staetment requires a staement of faith. does this help?
MrPrior69 2 years ago
4. There is a comment on the "holy book" If you look at a woman lustfully you already committed sin. I think it makes a little bit more sense that hey, if that is bad maybe forcing myself is also bad.
5. Again, I believe god did not write this holy book but instead us. So all the flaws, all the mistranslations all on us.
nemoxhoek 2 years ago
So, god condemns us for our thoughts? Our lustful instincts which we cannot control?
And again, you are interpolating: you are adding meaning to the text that isn't there. "Adultery" doesn't mean rape. Rape means rape.
So, if god exists, why didn't he provide us with a perfect book?
LordStrange 2 years ago
The Bible was written by many men over a peroid of 1400 years, three languages, three countries. The book of Timothy says that all scripture is God breathed. some english translations put that as God inspired. Does this he