Wages have not kept up because industry couldn't afford it, they were being taxed to high by government.
The gov't got your raise, the raise you deserved and now the democrats who were the ones who initiated these taxes, want to save the day with socialism
Democrats couldn't navigate a boat in a bathtub, no less run a nation-the proof is everywhere-look what a mess we're in.
@Zendout1 Yea its all their damn fault! Thats if you leave the 8 years of bloody war and terrible Rep leadership out of this cause that did not have aaaannnyyything to do with this. nope not at all.
But it will also tell doctors what to do, and how much they can treat patients, ("Over 65? DROP DEAD!) It will also enable the goverment to cast us all into "Patriotic Labour Brigades"! This is 1984.....coming 26 years later! Don't let this happen! Don't give Obama a vote of confidence in 2012! VOTE LIBERTARIAN FOR FREEDOM! (And no, this ISN'T spam....it's just the words of one very frightened, liberty-loving American!)
Look these people have ruined our system for their own gain-ask McConnell about the "unity club." Vote out all incumbents for Progressives...Baucaus helped give another 200 billion to Pakistan-while he denies our own unemployment! VOTE this prickoutta office!!!!pass the word-oh and while their at it-of we beg can we get rid of the Federal rRserve corporation please? They been enslaving everyone for way too long! How bout that Senator?
There is no shift of income here. Taxes belong to the elected government, even before the encumbered taxes were actually paid. Taxes are a priviledge and a right of passage to citizenship. If you don't want to be a US citizen, get the hell out, and then you can stop paying your dues.
It is not the govt's job to alter the incomes of the people to fit some kind of utopian idea that all people should be near the same 'paygrade'. Lets face it, some people are just dumb-they will always be poor- and some people are persistant and will always excel. There is no such thing as equal results from the efforts of all people. Those who cant perform whine about the incomes of those who can perform. Freedom to thrive should never be stunted by a govt.
This is big govt wannabe admin vs small govt we the people. People who cant, want big govt to take care of their every need against the 'evil' successful people. People who 'can do', dont want big govt to stump on their dreams in their pursuit of happiness. Obama is nothing more than an all out attack on the private sector. Every bill and every thought he does is to the detrement of the private sector. In order to accomplish his goal, Obama needs a dumbed down citizenship.
Yes, Obama is for small gov, small business, glad we finally have an intelligent leader at the helm.
Obama is very pro private sector, the new healthcare law proves it. Yes, dumb people are angry at Obama because he is lessening corporate control, he's more in favor of local business which is quite refreshing after years of dumbo Bush.
I like it when members of congress actually tell the truth. This admin wants to redistribute the wealth, and Obama just said recently that companies will not do anything for the public good--spoken like a true socialist. This admin and dem congress is about breaking down America and turning into a left wing marxist/socialist nation. The trillions of dollar deficit and the many socialist members in his admin prove this.
Well, we all agree the rich have gotten too rich, so as a Americans we have no choice but to equalize our wealth. If we didn't, the dumb people would revolt (see the tea party) so glad Obama is smart to help balance our society after the terrible destruction to our country by Bush. Obama has become a hero of prosperity for all, can wait until he solves our energy problem and immigration. He's become one of our greatest Presidents ever, that's for sure.
@Myaka2001 Im sorry if i offended you. I was just trying to have a friendly debate. I never meant to offend, but you haven't been able to properly back up your claims. And it's not that i'm blind, I just can't see something that is not there
John Adams said, "A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." The government takeover of our health care system has brought about the death of the principles that were the foundation of the ratification of our Constitution. Along with this comes the death of liberty and end of national wellbeing and happiness. The result will be the removal of the consent of governed and consummation of desolation of our nation.
A lot of Libertarians do join the Republican Party, but it is due to the fact that they have more in common with them then the Dems. ( lIke Ron Paul and his son) We do have to have a 2 party system, and the libertarians know that until their party get's bigger they don't want to divide votes because then the Dems. will win.
Libertarians differ from Republicans in that they are social liberals where Republicans have slowly become religious fascist when it comes to individual rights.
Australian news said:For more than nine months, the American people have been in revolt against Obama, for betraying their trust by bailing out Wall Street and the City of London, and then ramming through actually Nazi health care, that gouges $2 trillion out of Medicare for the elderly and forces 32 million Americans to sign up to private health insurance. Other countries see it . what is wrong with some of the people in America???
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times." -Thomas Jefferson, a Founding Father! The number of discoveries being made is exponential so... CHANGE!
@slowpoke86 that doesn't mean trample the Constitution. Yes things need to progress with the times, but not in a dictating to the people, nanny state way. It needs to progress BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE, not from people in Ivory towers telling you and I how to live.
@ngionfri WOW I never thought about it but TRUE socialism (look it up) is a government by the people, for the people. A true socialist government has no leader. Everything is voted upon by the people. Not very efficient, but ensures that everyone gets heard. I am not talking about the McCarthy scare tactic socialism. "Those
who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." O'Reilly = McCarthy. Someone PLEASE give me some CREDIBLE evidence (not FOX news) that Obama wants to be a dictator
@ngionfri It's funny that you bring up "by the people, for the people" because that is EXACTLY what socialism is. Well, socialism is a very GENERAL idea. A government with no leader, in which everything is owned by everyone and decided by everyone. There have been MANY different interpretations in how such a government is set up, and there are many other possibilities that have barely been explored. If people weren't so damn corruptible in nature, it could have worked in many occasions.
There is no doubt about it, there is definitely CORRUPTION on both sides of the field, but all they do is point fingers at the other side. BOTH SIDES are to blame. Just look at how many scandals we hear about in the news!
@slowpoke86Yes, we need reform but not with hidden crap to take over our lives.. Obama would not listen to ideas on fixing healthcare because all he wanted to do is have government healthcare with all the hidden crap to control us..Also Obama's way will be terrifically expensive ..He just wants to be dictator..he is working on it
@Myaka2001 PLEASE give me some CREDIBLE evidence that Obama wants to be a dictator. Not from FOX news though, the CEO was a consultant for several republicans from the 60s, 70s and 80s and OBVIOUSLY has a conservative bias. How is it trying to control us? Please elaborate
@slowpoke86 Everything he does sends red flags..Where do I start.. He is going against americans right now by passing that health bill that will destroy many businesses ..he just forces what he wants.. he has a dictator state of mind..silence any against him and force if the people don't want it..dictator
@Myaka2001 The president does not have absolute power. There is due process. It was voted upon. If you didn't like it, then you should have contacted your representatives. I, along with many Americans, did not elect Bush as president, but it happened anyways. He passed the Patriot act, which allowed the government to spy on us in the name of homeland security. What kind of Big Brother crap is that? If Cheney didnt get the boot, then Obama shouldn't either. Give me more specific examples.
@slowpoke86 We contacted all our representative many many many times, signed petiitions, put our own money out faxing congressman and even Obama himself. but it was all in vain because they knew they were going to do it anway.. voting, I wonder if it even counts anymore..corrupt government we have..I try
@slowpoke86 Pelosi and obama were going to force healthcare with the Slaughter deal or another was being talked abou if they did not get votest The majority of Americans told the government , we do not want it.. You see, I have first hand information that the news does not tell..especially if you watch CNN, ABC NBC and so on.
@Myaka2001 "True, Republicans have been guilty of using Reconciliation and the Slaughter deal, but NEVER at this massive scale, or with something this critical to the entire nation and our future, and one sixth of our entire economy." This is the only thing I found about a "slaughter deal." It was on a forum about assault rifles. They cited hannity and mark levin. They are known to have an extremely conservative bias so unless I see this somewhere else, it's unreliable information
@slowpoke86 Pelosi was talking abut using Slaugter deal for healthcare if they did not get the votes.. that tells me we are already under a dictatorship..they just don't want us to know it yet...those no good bastards lying and taking our money and rights..I hope my business does not go down because of this and cap and trade and other taxes Obama wants to do
@Myaka2001 "Cap and trade is an environmental policy tool that delivers results with a mandatory cap on emissions while providing sources flexibility in how they comply." Straight from the EPA site. Global warming is real. If it isn't, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do our best to shrink our carbon footprint and take care of the planet we live on. What type of business do you own, if you don't mind me asking?
@Myaka2001 He is just trying to create an incentive to adopt cleaner energy. Although I must agree that it is bad timing right now, but it would have been a great strategy before 2001. Might have saved us the trouble of having to go to the Middle East at all. Instead he should legalize, regulate, and tax pot and paraphernalia. It has the potential of being a multi-billion dollar industry that would bring lots of tax revenue and save billions from prison costs and from the unnecessary drug wars
@maciindrew I actuallly burst out laughing on this one, sorry . Our business just paid $40,000.00 on taxes for 2009.. never before have we had to pay that outrageous amount..not right..cutting taxes...he is adding so many taxes, it is going to really hurt businesses and hurt most everyone as everything will be taxed that were never taxed before..no more joking around ok?
@slowpoke86 Everything he does sends red flags..Where do I start.. He is going against americans right now by passing that health bill that will destroy many businesses ..he just forces what he wants.. he has a dictator state of mind..silence any against him and force if the people don't want it..dictator
@slowpoke86 he forced the healthcare and if he didn't get the votes he was going to force it anyway..where do I start..Everything this presdient does sends up red flags to people that knows what this type government can do to the people.. I certainly am not alone in my thinking
@Myaka2001 You can't tell what WOULD'VE happened if he didn't get the votes. No one can. There are a lot of people who still think that Elvis and Tupac are alive, that does not make it true. Come on, I want you to give me some real evidence, some more red flags. All I here is regurgitated bologna from FOX, which is just modern McCarthyism. I want infallible evidence and the things you are telling me do not connect the dots.
@slowpoke86 Pelosi and Obama were talking of a couple methods to bypass the Congress and pass this bill..one was the slaughter deal. so there was no doubt in my mind we were getting socialize healthcare like Pelosi said, one way or another it will happen
@maciindrew the battle isn't over..the fight is on ...we will not bow to that marxist ...he wants to put id in our bodies also, and he can drop dead, I will not..no way...
@macindrew I don't know where you got that info.. I have copies of polls from even CBS that showed 85% of the people thought well of Fox.. stop with this nonesense.. you believe all the propaganda..good bye
@Myaka2001 Polls are only effective if the group being polled is a good representation of the entire country. Fox polls are biased because most of the people that watch it are super conservative. That is the audience that they market to. It's a business. That is why you can't trust network news, they have no obligation to give you the truth. it's all ratings. After all, we do live in a capitalist society.
@Myaka2001 drop dead, I have other things to do and you will not listen to any of it anyways..we are not allowed much room on here to explain anything . Tired of you wasting my time..check it out yourself.
Do any of you people throwing the word socialism around even know what it means? No one has ever known TRUE socialism because it has never existed. Stop trying to find someone to blame. It is irrelevant at this point. FOCUS your attention on a solution. And IF you are going to stick your neck out and debate, make sure your argument is not FULL of LOGICAL FALLACIES. If you don't know what they are, look them up.
@slowpoke86 You are so correct, I think everyone that throws the word "Socialism" around, should look it up in the dictionary. We are no closer to being a socialized nation than we are to flying to Jupiter. It is just another GOP scare tactic and quit frankly is getting old and tired. I am old enough to know that everytime a Democrat gets in the White House, the word "Socialism" becomes a popular word. In 3 more years I want all those ppl that spew that BS to let me know how "Socialized" we are!
Redistribution of wealth is a form of socialism and it does not work. As soon as the do-nothings can tell the producers if and how they can make money then our society is doomed. We are perilously close to that condition now. The Federales now control the banks, the insurance industry, health care, automobiles, all transmitted communication, soon energy and manufacturing (Cap and Trade). Hugo Chavez couldn't have done it any better. If you are old you need to wake up.
We are no more closer to becoming a socialized country than we are to fly to the sun. Not sure how old you are, but in my lifetime I have heard the same bullshit over & over when a Dem is in the White House. The GOP's great idea is to distribute with wealth to big corporations in hopes that it trickles down. We just got done with an 8 year trickle down experiment and it drove us in to a near depression. Let me know in 3 years if we have become a socialized nation, and I will eat my words!
@phillipmarch22 When I hear "redistributing the wealth" I think socialism (maybe Marxism and the belief of a classless society). It doesn't work. There has to be motivation for people to be rewarded for excellence. Without it mediocrity thrives and the US dies. I think Cap and Trade will be the final nail as it will make the US completely non-competitive in the world economy. No matter what, the defense of Baucus is inexcusable- he is a disaster.
Yes, but as a healthy society, we need to be sure the rich do not become too rich and the poor become too poor... otherwise you get social unrest. Most economists agree we are out of balance right now, so it's good Obama realizes this issue and is taking steps to bring our country into balance so we ALL can be prosperous once again.
Yes, cap and trade will make us more competitive... thanks!
@maciindrew Do you understand that Cap and Trade will increase electricity rates by up to 50%. That means that every manufacturing facility in the United States will have higher production cost making us much less competitive. Please explain your rational how increasing production costs can possibly make us more competitive. There are think tanks that estimate that up to 3 million manufacturing jobs will be lost if this thing passes.
@maciindrew The most fearful thing of this whole thread is that it appears that you actually believe what you are writing. If you are going to converse on the issue, at least have some idea of what the issue entails.
Cap and Trade is a tax on energy, pure and simple. If you think the truth is fearful, you should write you senators and tell them to votre against this absolute horrible piece of legislation.
No, it's a "credit"... so dirty energy sources "trades" for "clean"... it won't affect the consumer other than they will notice the skies clearing, plants and trees coming back to life, less extreme weather, and fewer wars over clean water and resources.
You sound very uneducated, are you a Fox News viewer or something?
@maciindrew I am not sure what your story is and will not waste my time on you after this. Cap and Trade is expected to (conservatively estimated) cost the average American family of four an additional $2000 dollars a year in energy expenses by 2020 with the cost escalating to $6,800 by 2035. That cost may not bother your lah lah land view of things, but as a concerned, educated citizen, I understand the economic implications and they are not pretty.
@maciindrew hey mac n nut, damn no matter where you go you post stupid and idiotic stuff and people who read your stuff think you are a joke. You equated passing cap and tax would mean fewer wars over clean water and resources. How many sci fi movies do you watch? Cap and tax will be a diaster financially but Obama does not care about that.
you should read what maciindrew writes. he's rather brillant. why are you against America? you seem hateful and anti-america, are you someone from the south or something? Nah, cap and trade will set off a new wave of cheap energy, and lessen our dependence on islamic oil. It's good Obama is doing this now, before a Republican gets in office in about 15 more years. Repubs love to cause wars, spend money and jack up prices on the middle class. Obama has been a godsend for America.
@Tnoy34rt Hey tnuty, you and macndrew must live in the same alternate universe. You said Obama is for small govt. The over trillion dollar deficit he ran up shows you dont know the damn hell you are talking about, but then again you say Maciidrew is brilliant. People who say the rich has gotten too rich are those who have no clue of how to prosper in life and are too consumed with the matters of others.
I'm sure that you've been on this planet far longer than I have, but I know for fact that doesn't make you anymore knowledgeable than anyone on this thread. People have been duped before (see Iraq War) by politicians, they have been scammed into believing a system would work & remain efficient for as long as they were alive (see USPS, Medicare, SS), but they've never been taken care of. Dependency is not being taken care of. Let's use a better word for Obama if he's not socialist....UnAmerican.
President Obama Un-American? I am sure he would rather be called that then a mass murderer, lier, and war criminal like the last fucktard President.
President Obama would have to work overtime to fuck up as bad as bush w. did. That idiot couldn't do anything right. I challenge anyone on this thread to name one thing he did right and I guarantee you I can prove you wrong! Worst President in US history. Some come close, but he wins the gold medal!
@phillipmarch22 I promise you Obama will make Bush look like saint... Bush was bad but obama will destroy our country..he is well on the way...All these bills that will destroy businesses and more people will be unemployed.. I have no hope for the future unless Obama is gone....
The only thing I can say is that you must have been in a coma during the bush w. adminisration. President Obama would have to work full time to fuck up as bad as bush w. did. Again, I challenge you or anyone else on this video to tell me anything that bush w. did right. He completly fucked up everything he even thought about doing. bush w. is a mass murderer and war criminal. He won't leave this country, he will be arrested for war crimes. And he knows it!
@phillipmarch22 you can play with words all you want but we are heading for communism which will take our rights away.. facts are communism , marxism always ends with the people going without food and dying, if not gased.. they want to depopulate, next it will be this to silence those that do not agree.not rights...if that is what you want..... progressivism is going towards communism.
Slippery slope. What proof do you have that communism is the inevitable outcome of socialized health care? Speaking of taking away right, who passed the Patriot Act? As for taking away rights, socialized health care is GIVING us a right: right to affordable health care. There are so many problems with our healthcare system that a large scale rethinking is necessary. People sue their doctors, making doctors charge astronomical fees in order to cover their insurance.
(cont) Pharmaceutical companies sponsor doctors, pressuring them to push their products, which do not have generic alternatives, rather than what is necessary. Also, pharmaceutical companies have a major conflict of interest. Since we operate in a capitalist society, there is more money in a treatment, which temporarily subsides symptoms, rather than finding a cure. I'm not saying socialized healthcare will fix this, but you have to admit that something drastic must be done to remedy this issue.
In 2006 the Democrats were NOT in power. There were 49 Republicans, 49 Democrats, and 2 Independents in the Senate. Hardly a Democrat takeover. From 2006 to 2008, both bush & Congress were lame ducks. NOTHING got accomplished. Oops, I was wrong. Min. wage was increased, The only reason the GOP passed that is cause it was an election year and they needed the votes, & the Ledbetter bill passed also. Congress just waited it out till 2008 cause they knew the Dems were taking over.
I live in Montana and am ashamed of this man. He is not drunk. At the risk of offending Sarah, he is retarded. He was in a motorcycle crash several years ago and had head trauma. This is what is left- a babbling slobbering idiot. I am sure the intellectual capitol that created this legislation could not do us wrong! Haaah!! We are screwed!
(cont) Schumer and Frank advised all Dems to vote against the bill and block regulation. The Dems voted unanimously against it and it killed the bill. Fwank is on video subsequently insisting that the GSEs were in excellent financial shape just months before they collapsed. He was also living with an executive at the GSEs who helped create the financial products the GSEs sold, making millions in the process (and they were together while Fwank was chairman of he financial services committee).
(cont) Bawney Fwank who was on the financial services committee opposed the legislation, stating that the GSEs were not in crisis. In fact, he advocated blocking the bill because he said it would hinder the GSEs from doing MORE for affordable housing. In 2005, Greenspan warned that a failure to reform the GSEs would place the financial future of the US at substantial risk. McCain introduced a bill in 2006 to regulate the GSEs stating that they needed to be reformed without delay. (cont)
BTW draconiansdevil, Im sick of the Dems lying about the financial crisis and blaming it on Bush. They are lying through their teeth and youre a pathetic lapdog for helping them spread the lies. Bush raised red flags about the solvency of Fannie/Freddie in April 2001. In 2003, Bushs warnings about Fannie/Freddie were upgraded because the failure of the GSEs would damage markets outside the housing sector. Bush told Congress to reform the GSEs with a new regulatory agency. (cont)
ALx90x you socialist give yourself a bad name. This is not a socialist nation, never has been. If it becomes a product of you socialist scum it will fall and you will all burn. Socialism's the path to Communism. Final stage of socialism is Communism and if your a commie then I hope you Fry.
Obama is a pile of crap, I am ashamed at the nation for electing him, I hope we have all learned a lesson. Nov. will be our last chance to start turning this mistake around. It will take a long time to fix.
Slippery slope, more like a avalanche pouring down a mountain. Look up socialism, friend. And please sir I implore you to educate yourself before making public comments that make you look like an uneducated buffoon, but by all means you do have the RIGHT to do so if you wish.
So Max Baucus thinks the wealthy has gotten too rich. Well the statest in power dont see that as a good thing. Instead of lowering taxes and bring the lower income people up thru better employment and business opportunities lets go upside the head of the job creators and make more people dependent on the govt. Whats next, telling someone they have way too much personal property, it could be redistributed among the collective. Oh oh,I dont want to give Chairman Obama any ideas.
Oh damn what a surprise, the Obama adminstration interjecting the redistribuiton of wealth. Well what was our first clue?--taxing the rich and giving the benefits to the poor? I guess another clue was the commie Vann Jones and his dumbass 'green jobs' plan. Oh yea the student loan govt take over is in the health bill-hey if your going to destroy some insurance companies lets erase some private bank buisness along the way. Obamanomics, it is going to take alot ot time to fix this crap.
Jesus, Mary, Joseph and David. God help us. We have a mess to clean up come november. Folks, Be AWARE, Stay true to yourself and do in your heart what you know is right! God bless, us one an all. We will get through this catastrophe.
"Redistibutive Chage"-"Spread the Wealth", "Economic Justice", Social Justice".."Temporary Assistance", 'The Great Society".
After nearly 50 years can someone please name one single person who became wealthy because of any of this? Who has ever gotten rich on Welfare? Lincoln said we should not look at the rich man's house and wish to tear it down, but look at it as a reminder of what we should work hard to attain for ourselves. This social experiment has fail all over the world, it's our turn.
What a stupid argument. The Tea Party members were FORCED to pay into those federal programs just like every one else. And if they are close to retirement age, they have been paying into the system for decades. They lose no credibility by accepting the benefits from a program that they were forced by law to finance. And by the way, Social Security and Medicare are BANKRUPT. They prove that the federal govt should never create another bloated social program ever again, you freeloading doofus.
"The American dream is not that every man must be level with every other man. The American dream is that every man must be free to become whatever God intends he should become." --Ronald Reagan
The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison Principle author of the Consitution and 4th President of the United States
With each moment that passes it becomes closer and closer to a cultural civil war... doing nothing sets conservative American way of life further and further away from reality. Continually, the uneducated less motivated become slaves to their leaders being led into cattle cars for a tragic ending!
When the governments try to redistribute wealth, they end up redistributing poverty. It is always the case in history... Socialist EU states would never have viable systems without the American technology and health care education. It is easier to run a socials system in small Sweden then in a large mix culture USA. To many people will going to take advantage of it and it will end up collapsing. How ever Sweden system will going to bankrupt too. You cannot produce 1$ and spend 2$ forever.
How do you get the truth from Obama? Take the exact opposite of what he says. I've found this works 9/10, instead of 2/10 when I take his word at face value.
revmo37, I agree that Baucus is an idiot, but he absolutely believes every word of what he is saying. However, since he's a scumbag, he didn't admit it until AFTER the bill passed. When Obama was caught saying that he wanted to "spread the wealth around" the Dems condemned conservatives as evil, hate-mongering racists for calling him a socialist. This speech confirms that Obama was a socialist then, now, and that his party slandered Americans for political purposes in the campaign. Filthy liars.
and by using terms like "worthless, lazy, incompetent freeloaders ...envious..."
youve demonstrated that you know little to nothing about socialism.
if youre going to throw around words like socialist you should at least know a little about them.
but if youre american the only encounter youve had w/anything even mildly socialistic is probably the welfare system, which gives us socialists a bad name to say the least.
Yeah alx90x, well all head right on over to a socialist website. Just as soon as we are interested in learning how to become worthless, lazy, incompetent freeloaders interested only in destroying prosperous societies by using government force to steal the wealth of the productive whom we are so envious of that we cant bear our own inferior existence until everyone is as miserable, bitter, pathetic, and hopeless as you are. Well get right on that.
im not interested in any1s political ideologies and i sure as hell am not trying 2 get u interested in socialism. my main point is that evrything obama has done, up to and including this healthcare bill is CONTRARY to socialist values. im just trying to demonstrate to you and others that calling Obama a socialist is completely ignorant and false. it just shows u know little about politics.
burntonion05, we'll see how stable the middle class is when it's hit with a value added tax--a steep sales tax that all Euro nations with universal healthcare have to pay for it (France 20%, Scandanavian countries 25%). It will burden the middle class along with high income taxes, high unemployment and limit purchasing power. Obama promised during the campaign-no new taxes for households under 250K but recently said he is now "agnostic" about increasing taxes on the middle class. Sucker.
TheAutiger13, it won't be. This administration couldn't even handle managing cash for clunkers. They swore strict accounting of every stimulus dollar distributed and their records show billions disappearing into non-existent Congressional districts. The 75 billion foreclosure aid program is a complete bust so naturally they are INCREASING it. Obama's 2nd TSA Chief nominee withdrew today because of a scandal in his past (Obama is incapable of vetting nominees). They're totally incompetent.
@seanarther Thats why i did not trust this bill because the Obama has a bad track record when implementing major policy and the likelihood of future mishandling the implementation of this major program. I still find it amazing that many people think Obama can do wrong although time after time he been proven to be incompetent as a leader.I just remembered he is a great orator.
Do you remember when he met with Republicans early in the year. They all had their notes and talking points. He answered most of their questions without notes and picked them to pieces. Even Fox News realize it was a mistake and move away. The republican leadership looked like a bunch of incompetent imbeciles. If he is so incompetent what are they? Take a long look at the last guy in that office. I think incompetent was stamped on his forehead.
I saw the Prez fail in epic fashion. Dingell said on talk radio.. Let me remind you this [Americans allegedly dying because of lack of universal health care] has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you're going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.
Thats a novel theory. Opposition to Obamas policies is racism. It couldnt possibly be the fact that hes spending the nation into bankruptcy on programs that have not only failed but made things worse. Stimulus FAIL. Mortgage relief FAIL. Cash for clunkers FAIL. Weatherizing homes FAIL. Trillions of dollars down the govt rathole. But after all that failure, surely Obamacare will be a runaway success, right? And if it isnt, why the fuck should you care? You obviously dont pay taxes.
"I know it causes great pain to see your nightmare come true. It is difficult for some to see an intelligent black man with charisma, wisdom, and a strong family as president!"
--draconiansdevil
You never said anything about racism? Then why would you characterize "an intelligent black man" being President as someone's "nightmare"? We all know what you meant. And every time the race card is played by the Left it becomes more and more meaningless.
Dude why are you swearing? I thought we were having a debate. I learn when you tell me your opinions. I do pay taxes and way too much for health care. This bill will not help me in the least. But it will help others. If you disagree that is your right!
@draconiansdevil So...... Do you actually pay income taxes or just taxes? If you are an income tax payer, you are screwed, you will pay a lot more and your health insurance premiums will go up drastically. Only an idiot would think all of these mandates are going to lower anyones costs for anything. This President is an economic moron who will end up making Jimmy Carter look good.
@draconiansdevil You seem to forget Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ran the oversight committees. You also forget it was Democrats who crammed down the laws to make make it possible to lend to those who weren't credit worthy. Yes, Bush was a dud, but barry is just plain insane.
In no way did you pay income tax at 16, you may have filed, but I promise you paid nothing unless you inherited a lot of wealth.
@hopeurfree By the way, Taxes are gonna sky rocket, the deficit is out of control healthcare premiums are going to go up and the poor will still have pay for insurance (it isn't free). I don't get it. It is insane!!!!!!!!
No, draconiansdevil, you do not "call them like you see them." You are a liar and a troll. Your persistent attempts to shift focus to Bush is to protect your Obamamessiah from criticism. If you actually had a problem with govt spending during the Bush years then Obama's agenda would compel you to be standing outside the White House with a pitchfork, but instead you support Obamacare and have no criticism of the trillions Obama has already wasted on 4-5 other programs. EPIC FAIL. Go away troll.
draconiansdevil If you don't think insurance premiums will go down then why has Obama stupidly remarked that they will go down by 3000 percent and that employers will be handing out pay raises as a result of the savings? Is he lying or just wrong? And your "what about Bush" memo is TIRED. What about THIS President. Every spending program is a bust after only one year. But you support this massive spending program anyway? One that has failed everywhere else, e.g. Massachusetts?
draconiansdevil Yes, Obama is lying his ass off to sell this catastrophic plan to the slobbering sycophants like you that voted for him and continue to support him despite the fact that everything he's touched has failed and he has broken virtually every promise he made to get elected.
draconiansdevil, you are a liar and a troll. You did not vote for Bush twice and support him until you were "betrayed." You never supported him or voted for him. No one that voted for Bush twice would EVER express support for Obamacare because it will "help people," or accuse others of racism because its their "nightmare" that we have an "intelligent black man as president." Also, no supporter would EVER say the GOP "allowed" 9/11 to occur. Those are talking points of the left. Go away troll.
Yet strangely enough the economy was never better than it was under Bush with unemployment at 5% historic lows while the Dow Jones hit an all time high.
Then 2007 rolled along and things have not been the same.
What happened again in 2007? Oh right, Democrats got control of Congress and the pursetrings to the government.
ANd yet, you post no proof, no items, nothing. Just talking points you got from the Communists. Max Baucus should be put in stocks in the town square.
How about posting some proof here for these talking points? Everything that is wrong now, $787 B out the window and $500 B more to the bankers, 12% unemployment and now this communism, all Obama's fault.. sorry bud.
draconiansdevil I am swearing because socialists and their brainless minions make me sick. If you think that everyone in this country has a right to "free" healthcare insurance covering every illness and injury, including pre-existing conditions and preventative care, then by all means, go find some uninsured people and buy them policies with your own money. But you don't want to "help people" badly enough to do that. It's easier for you to support govt taking the wealth of others to do so.
Your race card will not play anymore. It has been thrown down so often it can no longer be read and has no meaning.
It's the Communism you moron.
Ron Bloom, Manufacturing Czar..."We kind of agree with Mao, that political power comes from the barrel of a gun". What part of that statement do you fail to understand?
Intelligent? If you call an IQ of 116 intelligent that's your problem. His race means nothing to me. His Communism concerns me greatly.
The Patriot act has been expanded under Obama. did you miss that?
Do you know what Communism is? Apparently not. Name calling? You mean Communist? You got one thing right and I'll quote you..
"And I am the moron".
Both of Obamas parents were Communists. Do a search. How about the image of Mao on a Christmas ornament hanging on the White House Christmas tree? Did that bother you? Does Valerie Jarret calling the US an "Imperialist nation" cause you no concern? Are you blind?
His PARENTS were Communists. Do you believe that the political views of a parent have no affect on a child?
My arguments are not talking points,they are things that I have learned on my own by observing the actions of the Won. By listening to his words and reading his book. And where do you see anger in my posts? Calling you a moron was not done in anger, just a result of reading your posts.
Ron Bloom and his comment about Mao and where political power comes from..OK with you?
AlaskanInfidel, draconiansdevil is a troll that is here to spread Obama propaganda, but he's too dumb to keep his lies consistent about how he's supposedly a former Republican that voted for Bush twice. It's pathetic--he claims he left the GOP because he felt "betrayed" when they didn't balance the budget (yet he supports Obamacare at 2 trillion bucks). He's outraged about the Patriot Act (2001), so why did he vote for Bush a second time (2004)? He's a dim-witted liar just like all Obamazombies.
@draconiansdevil Lol you're funny. I am 75% black and know many intellectual blacks. Wow that is patethic thats what you get for pulling the race card. Not all people against Obama are racists that don't want a black president in office. I do not like Obama why i oppose the policy of say the past 5 presidents because they leading us down a path of excessive spending and deficits that take a long time to pay off
The Democratic Party is doomed. All they have left are the racists, the lower end of the natural selection pool, their rich politicians, and large corporations. They spit on the American dream, and lead their simple simon sheep down any road they wish, while taking their money. The not-so-brights will elect them every time, in hopes of a handout from hard working Republicans.
Oh Senator Baucus...remove foot from mouth..
rs09985 10 months ago
Wages have not kept up because industry couldn't afford it, they were being taxed to high by government.
The gov't got your raise, the raise you deserved and now the democrats who were the ones who initiated these taxes, want to save the day with socialism
Democrats couldn't navigate a boat in a bathtub, no less run a nation-the proof is everywhere-look what a mess we're in.
Zendout1 1 year ago
@Zendout1 Yea its all their damn fault! Thats if you leave the 8 years of bloody war and terrible Rep leadership out of this cause that did not have aaaannnyyything to do with this. nope not at all.
VictorKim1988 7 months ago
But it will also tell doctors what to do, and how much they can treat patients, ("Over 65? DROP DEAD!) It will also enable the goverment to cast us all into "Patriotic Labour Brigades"! This is 1984.....coming 26 years later! Don't let this happen! Don't give Obama a vote of confidence in 2012! VOTE LIBERTARIAN FOR FREEDOM! (And no, this ISN'T spam....it's just the words of one very frightened, liberty-loving American!)
UTAOUB 1 year ago
Hooray for lying Socialists.
NoGuff 1 year ago
Look these people have ruined our system for their own gain-ask McConnell about the "unity club." Vote out all incumbents for Progressives...Baucaus helped give another 200 billion to Pakistan-while he denies our own unemployment! VOTE this prickoutta office!!!!pass the word-oh and while their at it-of we beg can we get rid of the Federal rRserve corporation please? They been enslaving everyone for way too long! How bout that Senator?
amicusdevida 1 year ago
There is no shift of income here. Taxes belong to the elected government, even before the encumbered taxes were actually paid. Taxes are a priviledge and a right of passage to citizenship. If you don't want to be a US citizen, get the hell out, and then you can stop paying your dues.
YentaY0 1 year ago
screw you baucus, you don't represent my lovely state, you sound drunk asshole
fatkidinabucket 1 year ago
@fatkidinabucket Baucus Dionysus was the Greek god of wine and intoxication, known as Bacchus to Romans. so this Maximus is named appropriately :))
Rawego 1 year ago
@Rawego Bacchus fits this guy rather well!
fatkidinabucket 1 year ago
It is not the govt's job to alter the incomes of the people to fit some kind of utopian idea that all people should be near the same 'paygrade'. Lets face it, some people are just dumb-they will always be poor- and some people are persistant and will always excel. There is no such thing as equal results from the efforts of all people. Those who cant perform whine about the incomes of those who can perform. Freedom to thrive should never be stunted by a govt.
joskemom 1 year ago
This is big govt wannabe admin vs small govt we the people. People who cant, want big govt to take care of their every need against the 'evil' successful people. People who 'can do', dont want big govt to stump on their dreams in their pursuit of happiness. Obama is nothing more than an all out attack on the private sector. Every bill and every thought he does is to the detrement of the private sector. In order to accomplish his goal, Obama needs a dumbed down citizenship.
joskemom 1 year ago
Yes, Obama is for small gov, small business, glad we finally have an intelligent leader at the helm.
Obama is very pro private sector, the new healthcare law proves it. Yes, dumb people are angry at Obama because he is lessening corporate control, he's more in favor of local business which is quite refreshing after years of dumbo Bush.
Tnoy34rt 1 year ago
I like it when members of congress actually tell the truth. This admin wants to redistribute the wealth, and Obama just said recently that companies will not do anything for the public good--spoken like a true socialist. This admin and dem congress is about breaking down America and turning into a left wing marxist/socialist nation. The trillions of dollar deficit and the many socialist members in his admin prove this.
joskemom 1 year ago
Well, we all agree the rich have gotten too rich, so as a Americans we have no choice but to equalize our wealth. If we didn't, the dumb people would revolt (see the tea party) so glad Obama is smart to help balance our society after the terrible destruction to our country by Bush. Obama has become a hero of prosperity for all, can wait until he solves our energy problem and immigration. He's become one of our greatest Presidents ever, that's for sure.
Tnoy34rt 1 year ago
why in hell am I wasting my time with you people to blind to see,.
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 Im sorry if i offended you. I was just trying to have a friendly debate. I never meant to offend, but you haven't been able to properly back up your claims. And it's not that i'm blind, I just can't see something that is not there
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 You want me to prove everything in this little area and for some reason it doesn't seem to be working at times.
I have information on Obama saved on a couple computers.. No doubt in my mind what he is doing..he doesn;t care about you or me....
Myaka2001 1 year ago
Come on people, I have seen more red flags in a party full of crips
slowpoke86 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
John Adams said, "A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." The government takeover of our health care system has brought about the death of the principles that were the foundation of the ratification of our Constitution. Along with this comes the death of liberty and end of national wellbeing and happiness. The result will be the removal of the consent of governed and consummation of desolation of our nation.
Myaka2001 1 year ago
JESUS EFFIN CHRIST.....what the hell happened to the youtube layout. It's awful! Is this a joke or what? Sorry....off topic, I know.
InFromTheVoid 1 year ago
VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!!!!!! Pass it on.
It seem most don't even know that there is a third party :(
InFromTheVoid 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
A lot of Libertarians do join the Republican Party, but it is due to the fact that they have more in common with them then the Dems. ( lIke Ron Paul and his son) We do have to have a 2 party system, and the libertarians know that until their party get's bigger they don't want to divide votes because then the Dems. will win.
Libertarians differ from Republicans in that they are social liberals where Republicans have slowly become religious fascist when it comes to individual rights.
InFromTheVoid 1 year ago 4
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
Is it true that the richest 2 % pay the most in taxes (sum wise), but the middle class actually pays more % wise?
InFromTheVoid 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
Australian news said:For more than nine months, the American people have been in revolt against Obama, for betraying their trust by bailing out Wall Street and the City of London, and then ramming through actually Nazi health care, that gouges $2 trillion out of Medicare for the elderly and forces 32 million Americans to sign up to private health insurance. Other countries see it . what is wrong with some of the people in America???
Myaka2001 1 year ago
What was "Hidden" about it?
It was right there the whole time for the world to see.
Spread the Health around -
inflateyourtires 1 year ago
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times." -Thomas Jefferson, a Founding Father! The number of discoveries being made is exponential so... CHANGE!
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 that doesn't mean trample the Constitution. Yes things need to progress with the times, but not in a dictating to the people, nanny state way. It needs to progress BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE, not from people in Ivory towers telling you and I how to live.
ngionfri 1 year ago
@ngionfri WOW I never thought about it but TRUE socialism (look it up) is a government by the people, for the people. A true socialist government has no leader. Everything is voted upon by the people. Not very efficient, but ensures that everyone gets heard. I am not talking about the McCarthy scare tactic socialism. "Those
who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." O'Reilly = McCarthy. Someone PLEASE give me some CREDIBLE evidence (not FOX news) that Obama wants to be a dictator
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@ngionfri It's funny that you bring up "by the people, for the people" because that is EXACTLY what socialism is. Well, socialism is a very GENERAL idea. A government with no leader, in which everything is owned by everyone and decided by everyone. There have been MANY different interpretations in how such a government is set up, and there are many other possibilities that have barely been explored. If people weren't so damn corruptible in nature, it could have worked in many occasions.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
There is no doubt about it, there is definitely CORRUPTION on both sides of the field, but all they do is point fingers at the other side. BOTH SIDES are to blame. Just look at how many scandals we hear about in the news!
slowpoke86 1 year ago 2
@slowpoke86Yes, we need reform but not with hidden crap to take over our lives.. Obama would not listen to ideas on fixing healthcare because all he wanted to do is have government healthcare with all the hidden crap to control us..Also Obama's way will be terrifically expensive ..He just wants to be dictator..he is working on it
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 PLEASE give me some CREDIBLE evidence that Obama wants to be a dictator. Not from FOX news though, the CEO was a consultant for several republicans from the 60s, 70s and 80s and OBVIOUSLY has a conservative bias. How is it trying to control us? Please elaborate
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 Everything he does sends red flags..Where do I start.. He is going against americans right now by passing that health bill that will destroy many businesses ..he just forces what he wants.. he has a dictator state of mind..silence any against him and force if the people don't want it..dictator
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 The president does not have absolute power. There is due process. It was voted upon. If you didn't like it, then you should have contacted your representatives. I, along with many Americans, did not elect Bush as president, but it happened anyways. He passed the Patriot act, which allowed the government to spy on us in the name of homeland security. What kind of Big Brother crap is that? If Cheney didnt get the boot, then Obama shouldn't either. Give me more specific examples.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 We contacted all our representative many many many times, signed petiitions, put our own money out faxing congressman and even Obama himself. but it was all in vain because they knew they were going to do it anway.. voting, I wonder if it even counts anymore..corrupt government we have..I try
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 Pelosi and obama were going to force healthcare with the Slaughter deal or another was being talked abou if they did not get votest The majority of Americans told the government , we do not want it.. You see, I have first hand information that the news does not tell..especially if you watch CNN, ABC NBC and so on.
Myaka2001 1 year ago
Comment removed
Myaka2001 1 year ago
Comment removed
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 "True, Republicans have been guilty of using Reconciliation and the Slaughter deal, but NEVER at this massive scale, or with something this critical to the entire nation and our future, and one sixth of our entire economy." This is the only thing I found about a "slaughter deal." It was on a forum about assault rifles. They cited hannity and mark levin. They are known to have an extremely conservative bias so unless I see this somewhere else, it's unreliable information
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 Pelosi was talking abut using Slaugter deal for healthcare if they did not get the votes.. that tells me we are already under a dictatorship..they just don't want us to know it yet...those no good bastards lying and taking our money and rights..I hope my business does not go down because of this and cap and trade and other taxes Obama wants to do
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 "Cap and trade is an environmental policy tool that delivers results with a mandatory cap on emissions while providing sources flexibility in how they comply." Straight from the EPA site. Global warming is real. If it isn't, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do our best to shrink our carbon footprint and take care of the planet we live on. What type of business do you own, if you don't mind me asking?
slowpoke86 1 year ago
Comment removed
Myaka2001 1 year ago
Comment removed
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 He is just trying to create an incentive to adopt cleaner energy. Although I must agree that it is bad timing right now, but it would have been a great strategy before 2001. Might have saved us the trouble of having to go to the Middle East at all. Instead he should legalize, regulate, and tax pot and paraphernalia. It has the potential of being a multi-billion dollar industry that would bring lots of tax revenue and save billions from prison costs and from the unnecessary drug wars
slowpoke86 1 year ago
Obama is for low taxes, that's why he has been cutting so much spending don't forget.
maciindrew 1 year ago
@maciindrew I actuallly burst out laughing on this one, sorry . Our business just paid $40,000.00 on taxes for 2009.. never before have we had to pay that outrageous amount..not right..cutting taxes...he is adding so many taxes, it is going to really hurt businesses and hurt most everyone as everything will be taxed that were never taxed before..no more joking around ok?
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 Everything he does sends red flags..Where do I start.. He is going against americans right now by passing that health bill that will destroy many businesses ..he just forces what he wants.. he has a dictator state of mind..silence any against him and force if the people don't want it..dictator
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 he forced the healthcare and if he didn't get the votes he was going to force it anyway..where do I start..Everything this presdient does sends up red flags to people that knows what this type government can do to the people.. I certainly am not alone in my thinking
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 You can't tell what WOULD'VE happened if he didn't get the votes. No one can. There are a lot of people who still think that Elvis and Tupac are alive, that does not make it true. Come on, I want you to give me some real evidence, some more red flags. All I here is regurgitated bologna from FOX, which is just modern McCarthyism. I want infallible evidence and the things you are telling me do not connect the dots.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 Pelosi and Obama were talking of a couple methods to bypass the Congress and pass this bill..one was the slaughter deal. so there was no doubt in my mind we were getting socialize healthcare like Pelosi said, one way or another it will happen
Myaka2001 1 year ago
Let's just be glad it passed and move on. The PEOPLE demanded healthcare and WE got it... so why are you complaining?
maciindrew 1 year ago
@maciindrew the battle isn't over..the fight is on ...we will not bow to that marxist ...he wants to put id in our bodies also, and he can drop dead, I will not..no way...
Myaka2001 1 year ago
fox news viewers are only 1% of the population, good luck trying to fight 99% of america.
no offense, but sounds like you have a mental illness.
macindrew 1 year ago
@macindrew I don't know where you got that info.. I have copies of polls from even CBS that showed 85% of the people thought well of Fox.. stop with this nonesense.. you believe all the propaganda..good bye
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 Polls are only effective if the group being polled is a good representation of the entire country. Fox polls are biased because most of the people that watch it are super conservative. That is the audience that they market to. It's a business. That is why you can't trust network news, they have no obligation to give you the truth. it's all ratings. After all, we do live in a capitalist society.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@Myaka2001 drop dead, I have other things to do and you will not listen to any of it anyways..we are not allowed much room on here to explain anything . Tired of you wasting my time..check it out yourself.
Myaka2001 1 year ago
Do any of you people throwing the word socialism around even know what it means? No one has ever known TRUE socialism because it has never existed. Stop trying to find someone to blame. It is irrelevant at this point. FOCUS your attention on a solution. And IF you are going to stick your neck out and debate, make sure your argument is not FULL of LOGICAL FALLACIES. If you don't know what they are, look them up.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
@slowpoke86 You are so correct, I think everyone that throws the word "Socialism" around, should look it up in the dictionary. We are no closer to being a socialized nation than we are to flying to Jupiter. It is just another GOP scare tactic and quit frankly is getting old and tired. I am old enough to know that everytime a Democrat gets in the White House, the word "Socialism" becomes a popular word. In 3 more years I want all those ppl that spew that BS to let me know how "Socialized" we are!
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
Redistribution of wealth is a form of socialism and it does not work. As soon as the do-nothings can tell the producers if and how they can make money then our society is doomed. We are perilously close to that condition now. The Federales now control the banks, the insurance industry, health care, automobiles, all transmitted communication, soon energy and manufacturing (Cap and Trade). Hugo Chavez couldn't have done it any better. If you are old you need to wake up.
ssc222 1 year ago 2
We are no more closer to becoming a socialized country than we are to fly to the sun. Not sure how old you are, but in my lifetime I have heard the same bullshit over & over when a Dem is in the White House. The GOP's great idea is to distribute with wealth to big corporations in hopes that it trickles down. We just got done with an 8 year trickle down experiment and it drove us in to a near depression. Let me know in 3 years if we have become a socialized nation, and I will eat my words!
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
@phillipmarch22 When I hear "redistributing the wealth" I think socialism (maybe Marxism and the belief of a classless society). It doesn't work. There has to be motivation for people to be rewarded for excellence. Without it mediocrity thrives and the US dies. I think Cap and Trade will be the final nail as it will make the US completely non-competitive in the world economy. No matter what, the defense of Baucus is inexcusable- he is a disaster.
ssc222 1 year ago 6
Yes, but as a healthy society, we need to be sure the rich do not become too rich and the poor become too poor... otherwise you get social unrest. Most economists agree we are out of balance right now, so it's good Obama realizes this issue and is taking steps to bring our country into balance so we ALL can be prosperous once again.
Yes, cap and trade will make us more competitive... thanks!
maciindrew 1 year ago
@maciindrew Do you understand that Cap and Trade will increase electricity rates by up to 50%. That means that every manufacturing facility in the United States will have higher production cost making us much less competitive. Please explain your rational how increasing production costs can possibly make us more competitive. There are think tanks that estimate that up to 3 million manufacturing jobs will be lost if this thing passes.
ssc222 1 year ago 2
complete nonsense... it won't increase rates at all.. so quite trying to spread fear... you're almost as bad as fox news.
maciindrew 1 year ago
@maciindrew The most fearful thing of this whole thread is that it appears that you actually believe what you are writing. If you are going to converse on the issue, at least have some idea of what the issue entails.
Cap and Trade is a tax on energy, pure and simple. If you think the truth is fearful, you should write you senators and tell them to votre against this absolute horrible piece of legislation.
ssc222 1 year ago
No, it's a "credit"... so dirty energy sources "trades" for "clean"... it won't affect the consumer other than they will notice the skies clearing, plants and trees coming back to life, less extreme weather, and fewer wars over clean water and resources.
You sound very uneducated, are you a Fox News viewer or something?
maciindrew 1 year ago
@maciindrew I am not sure what your story is and will not waste my time on you after this. Cap and Trade is expected to (conservatively estimated) cost the average American family of four an additional $2000 dollars a year in energy expenses by 2020 with the cost escalating to $6,800 by 2035. That cost may not bother your lah lah land view of things, but as a concerned, educated citizen, I understand the economic implications and they are not pretty.
Have a nice life!
ssc222 1 year ago
you're just very naive... take care...
maciindrew 1 year ago
@maciindrew hey mac n nut, damn no matter where you go you post stupid and idiotic stuff and people who read your stuff think you are a joke. You equated passing cap and tax would mean fewer wars over clean water and resources. How many sci fi movies do you watch? Cap and tax will be a diaster financially but Obama does not care about that.
joskemom 1 year ago
you should read what maciindrew writes. he's rather brillant. why are you against America? you seem hateful and anti-america, are you someone from the south or something? Nah, cap and trade will set off a new wave of cheap energy, and lessen our dependence on islamic oil. It's good Obama is doing this now, before a Republican gets in office in about 15 more years. Repubs love to cause wars, spend money and jack up prices on the middle class. Obama has been a godsend for America.
Tnoy34rt 1 year ago
@Tnoy34rt Hey tnuty, you and macndrew must live in the same alternate universe. You said Obama is for small govt. The over trillion dollar deficit he ran up shows you dont know the damn hell you are talking about, but then again you say Maciidrew is brilliant. People who say the rich has gotten too rich are those who have no clue of how to prosper in life and are too consumed with the matters of others.
joskemom 1 year ago
I'm sure that you've been on this planet far longer than I have, but I know for fact that doesn't make you anymore knowledgeable than anyone on this thread. People have been duped before (see Iraq War) by politicians, they have been scammed into believing a system would work & remain efficient for as long as they were alive (see USPS, Medicare, SS), but they've never been taken care of. Dependency is not being taken care of. Let's use a better word for Obama if he's not socialist....UnAmerican.
ngionfri 1 year ago
President Obama Un-American? I am sure he would rather be called that then a mass murderer, lier, and war criminal like the last fucktard President.
President Obama would have to work overtime to fuck up as bad as bush w. did. That idiot couldn't do anything right. I challenge anyone on this thread to name one thing he did right and I guarantee you I can prove you wrong! Worst President in US history. Some come close, but he wins the gold medal!
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
@phillipmarch22 I promise you Obama will make Bush look like saint... Bush was bad but obama will destroy our country..he is well on the way...All these bills that will destroy businesses and more people will be unemployed.. I have no hope for the future unless Obama is gone....
Myaka2001 1 year ago
@Myaka2001
The only thing I can say is that you must have been in a coma during the bush w. adminisration. President Obama would have to work full time to fuck up as bad as bush w. did. Again, I challenge you or anyone else on this video to tell me anything that bush w. did right. He completly fucked up everything he even thought about doing. bush w. is a mass murderer and war criminal. He won't leave this country, he will be arrested for war crimes. And he knows it!
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
phillip: You Are Wrong.
MrEmesis 1 year ago
@phillipmarch22 you can play with words all you want but we are heading for communism which will take our rights away.. facts are communism , marxism always ends with the people going without food and dying, if not gased.. they want to depopulate, next it will be this to silence those that do not agree.not rights...if that is what you want..... progressivism is going towards communism.
Myaka2001 1 year ago
Slippery slope. What proof do you have that communism is the inevitable outcome of socialized health care? Speaking of taking away right, who passed the Patriot Act? As for taking away rights, socialized health care is GIVING us a right: right to affordable health care. There are so many problems with our healthcare system that a large scale rethinking is necessary. People sue their doctors, making doctors charge astronomical fees in order to cover their insurance.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
(cont) Pharmaceutical companies sponsor doctors, pressuring them to push their products, which do not have generic alternatives, rather than what is necessary. Also, pharmaceutical companies have a major conflict of interest. Since we operate in a capitalist society, there is more money in a treatment, which temporarily subsides symptoms, rather than finding a cure. I'm not saying socialized healthcare will fix this, but you have to admit that something drastic must be done to remedy this issue.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil
In 2006 the Democrats were NOT in power. There were 49 Republicans, 49 Democrats, and 2 Independents in the Senate. Hardly a Democrat takeover. From 2006 to 2008, both bush & Congress were lame ducks. NOTHING got accomplished. Oops, I was wrong. Min. wage was increased, The only reason the GOP passed that is cause it was an election year and they needed the votes, & the Ledbetter bill passed also. Congress just waited it out till 2008 cause they knew the Dems were taking over.
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
I live in Montana and am ashamed of this man. He is not drunk. At the risk of offending Sarah, he is retarded. He was in a motorcycle crash several years ago and had head trauma. This is what is left- a babbling slobbering idiot. I am sure the intellectual capitol that created this legislation could not do us wrong! Haaah!! We are screwed!
ssc222 1 year ago
(cont) Schumer and Frank advised all Dems to vote against the bill and block regulation. The Dems voted unanimously against it and it killed the bill. Fwank is on video subsequently insisting that the GSEs were in excellent financial shape just months before they collapsed. He was also living with an executive at the GSEs who helped create the financial products the GSEs sold, making millions in the process (and they were together while Fwank was chairman of he financial services committee).
seanarther 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
(cont) Bawney Fwank who was on the financial services committee opposed the legislation, stating that the GSEs were not in crisis. In fact, he advocated blocking the bill because he said it would hinder the GSEs from doing MORE for affordable housing. In 2005, Greenspan warned that a failure to reform the GSEs would place the financial future of the US at substantial risk. McCain introduced a bill in 2006 to regulate the GSEs stating that they needed to be reformed without delay. (cont)
seanarther 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
BTW draconiansdevil, Im sick of the Dems lying about the financial crisis and blaming it on Bush. They are lying through their teeth and youre a pathetic lapdog for helping them spread the lies. Bush raised red flags about the solvency of Fannie/Freddie in April 2001. In 2003, Bushs warnings about Fannie/Freddie were upgraded because the failure of the GSEs would damage markets outside the housing sector. Bush told Congress to reform the GSEs with a new regulatory agency. (cont)
seanarther 1 year ago
Sorry Senator. Congress doesn't decide rights. Congress cannot create rights. Something isn't magically a right now just because congress said so.
Vote out all the morons in congress.
drummermanrick 1 year ago
If you vote out all the idiots, then there wouldn't be anyone left!
slowpoke86 1 year ago
ALx90x you socialist give yourself a bad name. This is not a socialist nation, never has been. If it becomes a product of you socialist scum it will fall and you will all burn. Socialism's the path to Communism. Final stage of socialism is Communism and if your a commie then I hope you Fry.
Obama is a pile of crap, I am ashamed at the nation for electing him, I hope we have all learned a lesson. Nov. will be our last chance to start turning this mistake around. It will take a long time to fix.
mcoopermusic 1 year ago
Slippery slope, more like a avalanche pouring down a mountain. Look up socialism, friend. And please sir I implore you to educate yourself before making public comments that make you look like an uneducated buffoon, but by all means you do have the RIGHT to do so if you wish.
slowpoke86 1 year ago
Bye-bye Max "The Sucker" Baucus See you at the voting booth =)
aynrand4freedom 1 year ago
I'm really starting to beleive in this redistribution of wealth thing!
The Democrats have had way too much wealth in power and come November the citizens aim to redistribute it.
dalmatian847 1 year ago
So Max Baucus thinks the wealthy has gotten too rich. Well the statest in power dont see that as a good thing. Instead of lowering taxes and bring the lower income people up thru better employment and business opportunities lets go upside the head of the job creators and make more people dependent on the govt. Whats next, telling someone they have way too much personal property, it could be redistributed among the collective. Oh oh,I dont want to give Chairman Obama any ideas.
joskemom 1 year ago
Oh damn what a surprise, the Obama adminstration interjecting the redistribuiton of wealth. Well what was our first clue?--taxing the rich and giving the benefits to the poor? I guess another clue was the commie Vann Jones and his dumbass 'green jobs' plan. Oh yea the student loan govt take over is in the health bill-hey if your going to destroy some insurance companies lets erase some private bank buisness along the way. Obamanomics, it is going to take alot ot time to fix this crap.
joskemom 1 year ago
Jesus, Mary, Joseph and David. God help us. We have a mess to clean up come november. Folks, Be AWARE, Stay true to yourself and do in your heart what you know is right! God bless, us one an all. We will get through this catastrophe.
tekdiveraz 1 year ago
Pretty soon, there will be NOTHING, to distribute!
gunnyranger2 1 year ago
Barry says we are gonna learn to like it. That is what a man tells his wife on their honeymoon.
hopeurfree 1 year ago
The once was a Senator named Max,
He drank hard liquor just to relax,
And with a grin as booze dribbled down his chin,
Said "there isn't anyone I won't tax".
hopeurfree 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil I won't be giving up my day job for poetry anytime soon, but it was pretty funny, you have to admit.
hopeurfree 1 year ago
"Redistibutive Chage"-"Spread the Wealth", "Economic Justice", Social Justice".."Temporary Assistance", 'The Great Society".
After nearly 50 years can someone please name one single person who became wealthy because of any of this? Who has ever gotten rich on Welfare? Lincoln said we should not look at the rich man's house and wish to tear it down, but look at it as a reminder of what we should work hard to attain for ourselves. This social experiment has fail all over the world, it's our turn.
wideawake123 1 year ago 2
As a land owner in montana I shall do what I can to vote out the Marxist-Communist Party (Democrats) in Montana. As I shall in my home State also.
smart12day 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
What a stupid argument. The Tea Party members were FORCED to pay into those federal programs just like every one else. And if they are close to retirement age, they have been paying into the system for decades. They lose no credibility by accepting the benefits from a program that they were forced by law to finance. And by the way, Social Security and Medicare are BANKRUPT. They prove that the federal govt should never create another bloated social program ever again, you freeloading doofus.
seanarther 1 year ago
"The American dream is not that every man must be level with every other man. The American dream is that every man must be free to become whatever God intends he should become." --Ronald Reagan
iprazhm 1 year ago
The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison Principle author of the Consitution and 4th President of the United States
iprazhm 1 year ago
With each moment that passes it becomes closer and closer to a cultural civil war... doing nothing sets conservative American way of life further and further away from reality. Continually, the uneducated less motivated become slaves to their leaders being led into cattle cars for a tragic ending!
performingsys 1 year ago 2
When the governments try to redistribute wealth, they end up redistributing poverty. It is always the case in history... Socialist EU states would never have viable systems without the American technology and health care education. It is easier to run a socials system in small Sweden then in a large mix culture USA. To many people will going to take advantage of it and it will end up collapsing. How ever Sweden system will going to bankrupt too. You cannot produce 1$ and spend 2$ forever.
eclipptv 1 year ago 2
How do you get the truth from Obama? Take the exact opposite of what he says. I've found this works 9/10, instead of 2/10 when I take his word at face value.
cevansroxy 1 year ago
You can tell that even this stuttering idiot doesn't really believe what he's saying
revmo37 1 year ago
revmo37, I agree that Baucus is an idiot, but he absolutely believes every word of what he is saying. However, since he's a scumbag, he didn't admit it until AFTER the bill passed. When Obama was caught saying that he wanted to "spread the wealth around" the Dems condemned conservatives as evil, hate-mongering racists for calling him a socialist. This speech confirms that Obama was a socialist then, now, and that his party slandered Americans for political purposes in the campaign. Filthy liars.
seanarther 1 year ago
@seanarther
and by using terms like "worthless, lazy, incompetent freeloaders ...envious..."
youve demonstrated that you know little to nothing about socialism.
if youre going to throw around words like socialist you should at least know a little about them.
but if youre american the only encounter youve had w/anything even mildly socialistic is probably the welfare system, which gives us socialists a bad name to say the least.
alx90x 1 year ago
omg listen to this garbage! go to a socialist website...they hate this healthcare bill!
im a socialist, i kno socialists, i go to socialist meetings!!
I HAVE NO MET A SINGLE SOCIALIST THAT SUPPORTS THIS BILL, OR BARACK OBAMA FOR THAT MATTER
alx90x 1 year ago
Yeah alx90x, well all head right on over to a socialist website. Just as soon as we are interested in learning how to become worthless, lazy, incompetent freeloaders interested only in destroying prosperous societies by using government force to steal the wealth of the productive whom we are so envious of that we cant bear our own inferior existence until everyone is as miserable, bitter, pathetic, and hopeless as you are. Well get right on that.
seanarther 1 year ago
@seanarther
haha what hostility!
im not interested in any1s political ideologies and i sure as hell am not trying 2 get u interested in socialism. my main point is that evrything obama has done, up to and including this healthcare bill is CONTRARY to socialist values. im just trying to demonstrate to you and others that calling Obama a socialist is completely ignorant and false. it just shows u know little about politics.
alx90x 1 year ago
@alx90x - If you're a socialist, I'm Superman. LOL.
cevansroxy 1 year ago
Very smart man. The US cannot survive without a stable middle class. Why are Repubs so dumb that they can't understand this?
burntonion05 1 year ago
burntonion05, we'll see how stable the middle class is when it's hit with a value added tax--a steep sales tax that all Euro nations with universal healthcare have to pay for it (France 20%, Scandanavian countries 25%). It will burden the middle class along with high income taxes, high unemployment and limit purchasing power. Obama promised during the campaign-no new taxes for households under 250K but recently said he is now "agnostic" about increasing taxes on the middle class. Sucker.
seanarther 1 year ago
i hope healthcare is better ran than the other entitlements have been managed
TheAutiger13 1 year ago
TheAutiger13, it won't be. This administration couldn't even handle managing cash for clunkers. They swore strict accounting of every stimulus dollar distributed and their records show billions disappearing into non-existent Congressional districts. The 75 billion foreclosure aid program is a complete bust so naturally they are INCREASING it. Obama's 2nd TSA Chief nominee withdrew today because of a scandal in his past (Obama is incapable of vetting nominees). They're totally incompetent.
seanarther 1 year ago
@seanarther Thats why i did not trust this bill because the Obama has a bad track record when implementing major policy and the likelihood of future mishandling the implementation of this major program. I still find it amazing that many people think Obama can do wrong although time after time he been proven to be incompetent as a leader.I just remembered he is a great orator.
TheAutiger13 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
TheAutiger13
Do you remember when he met with Republicans early in the year. They all had their notes and talking points. He answered most of their questions without notes and picked them to pieces. Even Fox News realize it was a mistake and move away. The republican leadership looked like a bunch of incompetent imbeciles. If he is so incompetent what are they? Take a long look at the last guy in that office. I think incompetent was stamped on his forehead.
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
I saw the Prez fail in epic fashion. Dingell said on talk radio.. Let me remind you this [Americans allegedly dying because of lack of universal health care] has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you're going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.
AlaskanInfidel 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
Thats a novel theory. Opposition to Obamas policies is racism. It couldnt possibly be the fact that hes spending the nation into bankruptcy on programs that have not only failed but made things worse. Stimulus FAIL. Mortgage relief FAIL. Cash for clunkers FAIL. Weatherizing homes FAIL. Trillions of dollars down the govt rathole. But after all that failure, surely Obamacare will be a runaway success, right? And if it isnt, why the fuck should you care? You obviously dont pay taxes.
seanarther 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"I know it causes great pain to see your nightmare come true. It is difficult for some to see an intelligent black man with charisma, wisdom, and a strong family as president!"
--draconiansdevil
You never said anything about racism? Then why would you characterize "an intelligent black man" being President as someone's "nightmare"? We all know what you meant. And every time the race card is played by the Left it becomes more and more meaningless.
seanarther 1 year ago
seanarther
Dude why are you swearing? I thought we were having a debate. I learn when you tell me your opinions. I do pay taxes and way too much for health care. This bill will not help me in the least. But it will help others. If you disagree that is your right!
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil So...... Do you actually pay income taxes or just taxes? If you are an income tax payer, you are screwed, you will pay a lot more and your health insurance premiums will go up drastically. Only an idiot would think all of these mandates are going to lower anyones costs for anything. This President is an economic moron who will end up making Jimmy Carter look good.
hopeurfree 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil You seem to forget Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ran the oversight committees. You also forget it was Democrats who crammed down the laws to make make it possible to lend to those who weren't credit worthy. Yes, Bush was a dud, but barry is just plain insane.
In no way did you pay income tax at 16, you may have filed, but I promise you paid nothing unless you inherited a lot of wealth.
hopeurfree 1 year ago 2
@hopeurfree By the way, Taxes are gonna sky rocket, the deficit is out of control healthcare premiums are going to go up and the poor will still have pay for insurance (it isn't free). I don't get it. It is insane!!!!!!!!
hopeurfree 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
No, draconiansdevil, you do not "call them like you see them." You are a liar and a troll. Your persistent attempts to shift focus to Bush is to protect your Obamamessiah from criticism. If you actually had a problem with govt spending during the Bush years then Obama's agenda would compel you to be standing outside the White House with a pitchfork, but instead you support Obamacare and have no criticism of the trillions Obama has already wasted on 4-5 other programs. EPIC FAIL. Go away troll.
seanarther 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
draconiansdevil If you don't think insurance premiums will go down then why has Obama stupidly remarked that they will go down by 3000 percent and that employers will be handing out pay raises as a result of the savings? Is he lying or just wrong? And your "what about Bush" memo is TIRED. What about THIS President. Every spending program is a bust after only one year. But you support this massive spending program anyway? One that has failed everywhere else, e.g. Massachusetts?
seanarther 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
draconiansdevil Yes, Obama is lying his ass off to sell this catastrophic plan to the slobbering sycophants like you that voted for him and continue to support him despite the fact that everything he's touched has failed and he has broken virtually every promise he made to get elected.
seanarther 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
draconiansdevil, you are a liar and a troll. You did not vote for Bush twice and support him until you were "betrayed." You never supported him or voted for him. No one that voted for Bush twice would EVER express support for Obamacare because it will "help people," or accuse others of racism because its their "nightmare" that we have an "intelligent black man as president." Also, no supporter would EVER say the GOP "allowed" 9/11 to occur. Those are talking points of the left. Go away troll.
seanarther 1 year ago
Yet strangely enough the economy was never better than it was under Bush with unemployment at 5% historic lows while the Dow Jones hit an all time high.
Then 2007 rolled along and things have not been the same.
What happened again in 2007? Oh right, Democrats got control of Congress and the pursetrings to the government.
How have things worked out since then?
dalmatian847 1 year ago
ANd yet, you post no proof, no items, nothing. Just talking points you got from the Communists. Max Baucus should be put in stocks in the town square.
NHTPC 1 year ago
HTPC
The communist have already won man.
We have gov.health care now. What
else do they need? What is left?
We can't get out of this debt.
We are the minorty now!
reytrapaet 1 year ago
How about posting some proof here for these talking points? Everything that is wrong now, $787 B out the window and $500 B more to the bankers, 12% unemployment and now this communism, all Obama's fault.. sorry bud.
NHTPC 1 year ago
It would've worked if the greedy executives didn't use it to pay themselves bonuses
slowpoke86 1 year ago
draconiansdevil I am swearing because socialists and their brainless minions make me sick. If you think that everyone in this country has a right to "free" healthcare insurance covering every illness and injury, including pre-existing conditions and preventative care, then by all means, go find some uninsured people and buy them policies with your own money. But you don't want to "help people" badly enough to do that. It's easier for you to support govt taking the wealth of others to do so.
seanarther 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil
Your race card will not play anymore. It has been thrown down so often it can no longer be read and has no meaning.
It's the Communism you moron.
Ron Bloom, Manufacturing Czar..."We kind of agree with Mao, that political power comes from the barrel of a gun". What part of that statement do you fail to understand?
Intelligent? If you call an IQ of 116 intelligent that's your problem. His race means nothing to me. His Communism concerns me greatly.
(I'm Blackfoot Indian.)
AlaskanInfidel 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil
The Patriot act has been expanded under Obama. did you miss that?
Do you know what Communism is? Apparently not. Name calling? You mean Communist? You got one thing right and I'll quote you..
"And I am the moron".
Both of Obamas parents were Communists. Do a search. How about the image of Mao on a Christmas ornament hanging on the White House Christmas tree? Did that bother you? Does Valerie Jarret calling the US an "Imperialist nation" cause you no concern? Are you blind?
AlaskanInfidel 1 year ago
Comment removed
draconiansdevil 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil
His PARENTS were Communists. Do you believe that the political views of a parent have no affect on a child?
My arguments are not talking points,they are things that I have learned on my own by observing the actions of the Won. By listening to his words and reading his book. And where do you see anger in my posts? Calling you a moron was not done in anger, just a result of reading your posts.
Ron Bloom and his comment about Mao and where political power comes from..OK with you?
AlaskanInfidel 1 year ago
AlaskanInfidel, draconiansdevil is a troll that is here to spread Obama propaganda, but he's too dumb to keep his lies consistent about how he's supposedly a former Republican that voted for Bush twice. It's pathetic--he claims he left the GOP because he felt "betrayed" when they didn't balance the budget (yet he supports Obamacare at 2 trillion bucks). He's outraged about the Patriot Act (2001), so why did he vote for Bush a second time (2004)? He's a dim-witted liar just like all Obamazombies.
seanarther 1 year ago
@seanarther
Thanks...always good to know your enemy and now I know him a little better.
I thought it was odd the way he changed "parents" to "grandparents..."
AlaskanInfidel 1 year ago
@draconiansdevil Lol you're funny. I am 75% black and know many intellectual blacks. Wow that is patethic thats what you get for pulling the race card. Not all people against Obama are racists that don't want a black president in office. I do not like Obama why i oppose the policy of say the past 5 presidents because they leading us down a path of excessive spending and deficits that take a long time to pay off
TheAutiger13 1 year ago 2
Evil shit
a5dr3 1 year ago
The Democratic Party is doomed. All they have left are the racists, the lower end of the natural selection pool, their rich politicians, and large corporations. They spit on the American dream, and lead their simple simon sheep down any road they wish, while taking their money. The not-so-brights will elect them every time, in hopes of a handout from hard working Republicans.
DarwinSheriff 1 year ago 15