ALMS Laguna Seca '07: Porsche vs. Audi battle

[reggielittle25]

I want this video on my V750 unit.

[buddyrich410]

This video is a favorite on Abuja

[Aztech355]

Good Race!!

[SevenNationArmy69]

How does the whole time thing on these races work? Is it how many laps you can do in the time given? and why sometimes they say its the last lap only for them to do another lap right after?

[deggis4]

@SevenNationArmy69 [Couple of corrections] Once the time reaches (in this race and most ALMS races) 2 hours 45 minutes, the lap the lead car is doing becomes the last lap. Obviously they can predict the last lap at the end, but safety car perioids etc. won't stop the clock. Not sure if I understood your second question.

[djdorq]

@FrodothePuppet lol yes, because it's not sad at all having to combine two dying LMP1 & LMP2 classes and GT1 & GT2 classes, AND creating two "Challenge" classes that feature a wide range of...wow, ONE car!!!! Similar to GM spreading itself too thin and shutting down most of it's brands, so too has ALMS.

The Rolex Series thrives on it's formula of mating purpose-built chassis w/ the engine of your choice. It's affordable, competitive, great racing. prototypes just aint what they used 2 b dude.

[deggis4]

@djdorq The LMP classes have been, umm - re-separated for this year. Old LMP2 is now basically LMP1 (as per ACO rules) and LMP2 is now much more catered towards low costs (price caps for chassis & engine). The prototype grids still look pretty bleak, except for Sebring and Petit Le Mans which are part of the Intercontinental Le Mans Cup. GT2 on the other hand is flourishing. I agree about the Challenge classes. They're stupid and should be abandoned when the grids get to an acceptable level.

[djdorq]

@deggis4 there is no LMP2 in ALMS any more, that was my pt. the FIA LMP and GT classes may be thriving elsewhere in the world, but here it's been dying out, largely due to the economy. I SO miss the GT1 days of the early 2000's...the MC112, C5Rs, 575Ms, etc. I hope they're able to beef up the ALMS ranks again, maybe a GT1 and LMP2 class will be viable once again. I agree w you, i pray the C classes will be dropped asap!

[deggis4]

@djdorq My point was that there will be again LMP2, with largely different technical regs than the old LMP2 had. I know there wasn't last year. There is no "FIA LMP" though because FIA is not the governing body.

[djdorq]

@deggis4 yea i hear u, i would love to see two LMP classes again, but what makes you say it'll be so vastly different than the old LMP2? im curious 2 see where the LMP class(es) will be in 5yrs, what with the V12 R10 becoming a V10 R15 becoming a V6 R18...I loved watching the LMP675 MG with that 500hp turbo 4. After all, P2 brought porsche & acura into the game. I think LMPDiesel & LMPPetrol classes would be cool. diesel wiped petrol LMPs off the map as soon as the R10 left the pits.

[deggis4]

@djdorq "but what makes you say it'll be so vastly different than the old LMP2?"

Price caps for chassis & engine. Cheaper, production based engines. The price caps are the most effective but iirc there are also other restrictions that limit spending. In couple of years I'd expect ALMS to have a good LMP2 gid. LMP1 on the other hand needs manufacturers.

ACO rules now has an actual article that is supposed to keep better balance between petrol and diesel. I'm not too hopeful that it will do that.

[djdorq]

@deggis4 also thanks, lol. I got the ACO and FIA mixed up.

[TheMarching110fan]

too bad the audi and porsche prototypes can't be found in alms anymore. Now that was great racing. Oh and I agree , who needs grand am and their sad idea of sportcars.

[FrodothePuppet]

Who needs the Gran-Damn Faux-lex sports car series when the ALMS gives us such terrific racing with very different cars? When Gran-Damn will allow Audi, Peugeot, Aston Martin, etc to bring cars of their own creation to the Faux-lex 24, I'll take them seriously.

[Schnookynibbles]

That's one sweet sounding motor on the Penske Porche!

[adyolive]

nice racing

[operationcwaI789789]

i remember this... watched live.....

this is the same race where GT2 ferrari pushed flying lizard porsche into the wall feets from checkered flag

[deggis4]

No, that was Sebring (2007)

[operationcwaI789789]

my bad... same season though....

i was on the edge of my seat the whole time

[elibeli2595]

@deggis4 Still, Melo shouldn't havbe done that :P

[al395]

Bring back the Audi!

[adyolive]

nice battle

[ffmotorsports51]

I REALLY want Penske to return to ALMS with their Porsche RS Spyder's!!! The racing will be so much better with them around and I want Audi back in ALMS as well! They would have fought the Acura's hard and the racing would have been awesome.

[checkergermany]

This is much better than Formula 1

[7HIFAST]

Diesel power. Min 5.38 It is great to have al that torque. Great race.

[FormulaOneSpy]

It's great to have technical regulations that make any petrol engine pretty much obsolete against diesels.

[socialspasmdrums]

I hope Porsche makes a LMP1 car so they can teach audi and peugeot what a real race car can do

[deggis4]

Not going to happen unless Audi steps away first. Remember who owns both marques now.

[bavarianbass]

@deggis4 i know from a frew porsche guys there will be definitly a LMP2 car in the next few years. and maybe if vw gives the green light the want to do a winable LMP1 car. but only for the 24h of le mans. to show the world once more who is the greatest racecar builder on the planet! :) no thats not their point but they really want to win le mans again.

[deggis4]

@bavarianbass If you referred to the RS Spyder, that program has ended. There was a team in US wanting to use it next year but they have simply stopped producing spare parts and essentially ended the program.

I still don't think we'll see Porsche in prototypes as long as Audi is there. There might be a will but there's not a way.

VW/Porsche has been recently talking about F1. Which one of the brands (Porsche or Audi) will be in Le Mans racing depends on that too.

[bavarianbass]

@deggis4 yes i know :)

in lmp2 there sure will be a new winable car maybe in 2015. at least thats what i heard. in lmp1 i dont know... maybe there will be an porsche audi again. would be nice too

yes they talked about suppling engines for f1. would be great. porsche has a lot of experience from the indy car series. but thats a long time ago if it comes to modern engineering. and well vw has its own formula volkswagen. but its still not as popular as formula v was...

we´ll see :)

[elibeli2595]

@deggis4 wow...really? I remember Porsche tried F1 a while back and failed...right? But they do have the power :)

[deggis4]

@elibeli2595 The half-assed effort with the Footwork team 1991 was a failure but before that McLaren used TAG-Porsche branded (still "made by Porsche") engines and that was highly successful.

[elibeli2595]

@deggis4 I see...

but im with you, i think Le Mans is Porsches world

[socialspasmdrums]

@deggis4 It just seems to me that porsche belongs at Le Mans. Audi can go to F1

[scscotto]

You must know It's Mr. Piech who brought Porsche all it's early glory in endurance racing and now controls it all.He has built Audi's racing program up for years.Porsche does not now have the money to pursue LMP1 or 2 and Audi is already working towards the new regs for 2010 and 2011.Porsche will stay in GT2 or may build for the later coming GT class but that's it.

[masstrkiller]

@scscotto Its unfortunate to think that such an iconic winning racing marque such as Porsche would be subjugated to the GT2 class and not compete in the prototype class for outright wins at Le Mans. Yes we should blame the attempted take-over of VW which backfired in the worst possible way by the Porsche CEO at the time. Very sad to see Porsche sit the sidelines and watch others compete. VW should give the power back to Porsche just for name sake. Very sad.

[scscotto]

@masstrkiller The most recent reads from Porsche are that once the rules change go into effect after 2011 Audi will continue w/ Diesel development and Porsche may do an LMP hybrid car. They have started with the GT3 hybrid they are running this year. Work will progress to the point they can put it into a prototype. Let's hope. I too get tired of seeing them out of LMP.

[elibeli2595]

@socialspasmdrums As many times as I've said that same thing and as much as I want it to happen (we all know they could easily dominate), deggis4 makes the Point. VW wouldn't allow Porsche to compete with Audi in LMP1

...which brings the question as to why they have the new R8 LMS for the GT classes in Europe where the GT3 RSR has but extremely successfull for years...

[deggis4]

@elibeli2595 Interestingly they now seem to have reverted their opinion: put "Porsche more likely to tackle Le Mans than F1" to google, first result points to ESPN story.

[bavarianbass]

@socialspasmdrums wait for 2014



[joelmafonso]

i like to see american brands and japonese in the 24 hours le mans

[MrFinno8]

they cant make race cars

[gotchevypower3]

Nothing like Laguna Seca!!!

[icanhaslego]

i remember watching this... brilliant driving...

[dcgood66]

Audi will come back next year and win the Le Mans again. look at it audi won 6 of the 9 races this decade. OK Peugeot won 2009, but it hasn't won besides that since 1993

[FormulaOneSpy]

Peugeot also did not even participate in the race between 1994-2006... ;) (excluding supplying engines)

Victory is a victory but you gotta admit Audi did not have much competition between 2001-2006...

[Rivelution]

Audi's actually won 8 of the past 10 Le Mans. I love how since Peugeot has won the 24 this year, all the delusional Audi fans are saying "well look at how many times Audi has won compared to Peugeot." Please, get over it. And this is coming from a hardcore, but respectful Audi fan...

[Chansonmusika]

god i love the ALMS. I was there for this race! So lucky to have grown up in the Monterey area, seen so many great races at Laguna Seca.

[themorganator]

great racing! Thanks for posting!

[MazelTHC]

Audi won and this is it:)

[Schnookynibbles]

The ultimate would be if ALMS allowed a P2 w. their 3.4L, but turbocharged...would out brake, out corner/maneuver, and then out accelerate all comers. Anyway, incredible driving by Dumas to keep it as competetive as he has...he's taken P1 cars before & obviously gives no quarter to anyone.

[FormulaOneSpy]

Yeah and if they allowed bigger NAs in P2 that would outbrake and outcorner everyone else... get the point? Both, turbocharged and NAs are supposed to be competitive options, altough seems that NAs have a little edge right now..

[BurtonwoodXBL]

i remember watchin this live on motors tv an i was on the edge of my seat for pretty much the whole race...fantastic battle...f1 is shite compared to this!!

[JKUnlimited]

Dindo is the man !!

[knappar]

if BMW was still in the LMP1 audi would not be as successful as they are now.

[Topkartracer]

Audi is the reason BMW isn't in P1 anymore, they ran them out.

[FormulaOneSpy]

bullshit. BMW just like Mercedes and Toyota went to F1.

[BrnoutJerzey]

not true.

[chanman4rings]

Audi has proved they welcome any competition and have proved that anyone willing to enter LMP1 has to go through them. Look at Peugoet their car is light years fasters than the R10, but that car just keeps on trucking and winning all of the big events

[Rivelution]

Audi's car might be slower than the Peugeot buts its more reliable, and they have VERY experienced drivers. Just look at Petit Le Mans '08. I believe Audi won mainly because of McNish's strong determination and vast experience.

[exsoda345128]

yeah you may have got me at turn 11... watch this!!!

[DarthSparhawk]

Amazing, this is absolutely amazing!

[operationcwaI789789]

Melo vs Bergmeister was much more thrilling

[XXformula]

I believe that we will see hydrogen fuel cells in most of our road vehicles in 50 years..however most racing series will still run some form of renewable fuel like ethanol...i just can't picture silent electric/hydrogen cars quietly laping around our racetracks....the sound is half of the racing experience

[moustachio334]

then wow that is very impressive

[moustachio334]

the audi is a LMP1 car right??

[FormulaOneSpy]

yep

[Lompican]

Such a good effort from both drivers,truly amazing Footage

[911hul]

Imagine if Porsche made a LMP1 car.

[Petrolhead1984]

That would be awesome

[al395]

or if Audi made an LMP2 car

[heyjunjin1]

This is the best series on the Planet :P St.Pete this year was the greatest race ive ever seen!!!

[Lemans15]

dont like that diesels...

[s1xsp33d]

I was there sittin on start/finish

[celisto001]

it wont be dead itll go green with hybrid motors just like toyota already did with thier GT500 supra race car...

[ekstra12]

PORSCHE still the best..........

[vivaSchumi7]

street porsches...or before '99

[upyurskert]

The 2007 season will be a one to remember. Now as much as I loved the continuing battles between the two German cars, the next season with its regulations coming into play will hopefully bring more competitors to the front of the pack to make for some more exciting racing.

[deggis4]

I'm afraid season 2008 is will be not so epic... there are rumours(!!) that Audi might cancel ALMS program after Sebring because they are not happy with that IMSA didn't fully enforce the new regulations. :/

Anyway, Sebring is going to be epic because Peugeot is there.

Audi has confirmed to have at least one car (from Joest) in LMES series. Too bad that LMES seems to have the large grids but ALMS has the media coverage :( I wish there was only one, truly world wide series...

[upyurskert]

True, Audi might not be involved, but I really don't see any real competition from any other LMP1s. I think it's important they stay for sebring, but wouldn't be to bad if they left the AMLS for the time being. Give some of the private teams a chance and let the GT classes have a better share of the spot light.

[quattrings]

You do know that the Audi has power restrictions and weight restrictions on it? It has won so many races in a row that it is handicapped. That's how this series works, so yes - they should be happy considering.

[deggis4]

This LMP1 vs. LMP2 probably ain't gonna happen anymore next season because IMSA agreed to enforce the new regulation changes.

Altough as a fan I'd still take half-arsed rules instead of no competition on the track at all :/ at least Audi has a competitor in Sebring and Petit Le Mans IF Peugeot shows up.

[a4qt]

Agreed.  Funny how Porsche, then Audi both threatened to leave the series based on restrictions. Porsche will have more weight next year. The two classes really shouldn't be so close, but it was exciting. Peugeot should threaten Audi with their Diesels in 08!

[tuberstank]

good conversation - flawed tacing is better than NO racing when it comes to sportscar racing in America. Too bad Porsche is being penalized for building a quicker car. The Audi also has more fuel capacity for fewer stops and another advantage.

[944turb0]

VAG+Porsche = domination on track

[gustavorr20]

Porsche needs that power the Audi has, piss me off when audi can accelerate like that!!!

[brocky]

soo sweet. amazing driving. what a way to maneuver with a smaller machine. Nice try Dumas

[12valvepower]

audi has sooooooooooooooo much power

[tuberstank]

torque. I has so much more torque than the Porsche. Power is close.

[porschehaha]

LOOOOL

I love the audi staff at the end : so happy etc... because they win on a LMP2 with a LMP1... They must be effrayd that a LMP2 kick them like this !

[dwkfym]

I was there at turn 2 watching the battles... STUNNING!

[vancityguy]

I loved watching this, but I knew the R10 would be the better machine. What a way to end the 2007 season.

[bigmikezx12r]

I missed the race live, thanks for posting this vid !!

[al395]

What an awesome race!!

[Chernaudi]

Where'd you find this?

[deggis4]

TBK Motorsport Forums: tbk(dot)fameflame(dot)dk/phpBB­2

this logo in the beginning I added myself.

[dieselislife2]

i seen on tv, great fight.. go TDI POWER!

[tuberstank]

I cant wait to see diesels go away from racing - use them for truck that need all that torque and for cars and small trucks in europe - they are all over!

I want the scream of horsepower, the wail of 10,000 rpm V-12s - do you really want to listen to the Audi TDI when racing?

[a4qt]

Actually I love the sound of the Audi V12 TDI. Do a search here and there is one video of it and it sounds amazing. It's also not so darn loud that your eardrums start bleeding. Get used to Diesels, they will be taking over hybrids in the U.S. starting in 2008

[tuberstank]

I heard the TDI and it didnt rev. I go to races to hear and smell the cars, feel the ground shake as the roar by...call me a old timer if ya want.

Velocity stacks on a Chevy V-8 Lola or the scream of Ferrari motors at 9,000 rpm - that is racing to me as much as anything.

TDI is ingenious and a tech wonder, but not a car that stirs the blood!

[a4qt]

Fair enough, I can appreciate that. I think the Audi's raw speed and display of power, with some tough competition from Porsche are what get me excited. After watching the Audis and Porsches battle this last season, I can't wait to see even more competition in the LMP1 class.  2008 is going to be a great year!

[tuberstank]

I agree with you on '08. Kinda reminds me of the old days of IMSA and Group C racing.

[deggis4]

Better get used to it now - in 2058 motorsport is either dead or running with eletric motors :)

Of course nothing beats V10 Judd but I'm still glad it was Le Mans who took the 1st position in "greener racing".

[tuberstank]

green racing is is oxymoron - like jumbo shrimp!

eco and green racing will never make an appealing racing event! Have you seen an entertaining electric car that was not a RC car?

[deggis4]

If you read carefully I used year 2058 as an example... with what you are supposed to put into a petrol engine when there is no oil left? Or whatever were the latest estimations.

As I said, either there is no motorsport at all or there is motorsport with hydrogen/eletric whatever power units. Eletric might be NOW just enough for RC car but in the 20s many people didn't believe man could go to the moon either...

I'm NOT an eco hippie. :D

[tuberstank]

Ive seen the upstart racing leagues based on hydrogen and electricity in Road & Track and Car and Driver. I realize that oil based fuels are finite. Lets enjoy them while we have them! Racing will never be the same when fossil fuels are gone, sorry. Not being a jerk, I just dont see a future for racing in the year 2050.

[deggis4]

As long as there are some kind of vehicles, there will be some sort of racing too :D

[jelzin1985]

i guess they will drive with methanol then

[tuberstank]

racing is a indulgent sport - using a ton of fuel each year - and yes it will run out. but electric or hydrogen racing will never have the same appeal as the racing cars of last 50 years...

[awachtel]

What about biodiesel? Still a combustion engine with comparable power.

[ingekevi]

Truly spoken tuberstank.

[martynhoyer]

Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome!

I was watching live in the UK, so it was nearing 3am, and I was getting a bit tired, Dindo's move one Romain (at the start of this video) woke me up a bit! Loved it!

[dieselislife2]

the audi needs a jake brake

[LolaJudd]

porsche needs to move to LMP1