theory ... magnitism is two dimentional... what we see as a megnetic field is polarity caused by spin... we can only measure magnitism when there is a polarity ... polarity can only be present in three dimensional space...therefore does a magnetic field rotate with an objec? ... hmm ... in reference to the two dimensional magnetism I would say no .... in reference to the three dimensional polarity I would say yes... again just a theory *<:0)
I think Maxwell and Heaviside as well as Tesla all felt the magnetic field was 3D or even 4D (including time). You may find youtube user, SirZerp's work enlightening on this matter:
watch?v=XT3NrFfQclg&feature=player_profilepage
Also youtube user, Pinestonemtn has some interesting videos as well:
watch?v=byxCYvDjFRM
Did you notice also, the effect when the magnet is drawn to and from the screen?
So basically if that were the case then starting rotating a magnet along its axis as a homopolar motor would not generate current. However it does generate current. Because the electrons starting from a stand still must experience a change in flux to be compelled forward. Even though that flux remains of equal flux density along the axis of rotation. Basically what I am saying is you are not rotating the magnet fast enough along its axis to see any effect.
When conventional current flows in a homopolar motor wire, it leaves the center of the battery positive and moves radially outward across the variant magnetic field. This produces a force that is perpendicular to the current flow and perpendicular to the B field. This also occurs along the edge of the battery because the field is not uniform along that edge, so a force exists there as well.
If you are correct and I do not believe you are. Then how would you explain how a homopolar motor rotates along the axis of the magnetic field. I believe the only working explanation is that there is rotation of magnetic flux even along the axis.
The reason that you are you do not see a change is because the magnetic field of the magnet is evenly distributer and as you can see from the reaction of your camera the monitor it is not, that is why you get those straight lines. My understanding of tvs/monitors is that they have an electron gun at the back firing at the phosphorus on the the front of the screen in successive lines which are stationary normally on a horizontal orientation. The weak magnetic equator cant induce a change
The reason is because the flux angle and flux density is the same for any give radius from the center of the magnet all the way around.
You are correct that many TV's and Monitors have Cathode Ray Tubes that have electron guns and this is true of the one used in the video. However, the 'stationary' lines are a product of our eyes persistence of vision coupled with the photo-emissive phosphor. If you had a fast enough camera, you would see that they are really only successive dots.
The camera "bars" are caused by timing interference in the framing of the screens.
The magnetic patterns are produced by interactions of the screen components and the induced magnetic fields that interaction produces. The electrons take a different path when they travel through the field and this is what causes the patterns as the electrons hit different phosphor than they were intended to. The fact that the patterns do not change as the magnet is rotated, shows axial symmetry for B
I think that this experiment does not work because the part you putting on the screen is only the north or the south.If you put both the south and the north on the screen and you rotate both of them then you will have some rotating field lines.
The reason there is no rotation is because the cross section of the field that intersects the screen (Gaussian surface) is symmetrical in a circle around the center of the pole. For any radius from that center, the flux is the same around the circumference of that radius. The CRT electron interaction with that flux will only change if the flux magnitude or the angle of the flux changes. Since neither of these things change during rotation the pattern does not change. ;-)
Now that is an interesting 1/2 experiment, is it not?
All that remains is to keep the magnet still and rotate the monitor!
I guess then if the field lines are fixed in space, it would rotate on the monitor if the monitor was rotated. (This is the other half of the experiment)
Do you suppose then, that space rotates with the Earth in it's rotation and orbits? Or does the Earth pass through it? Where then does the monitor fit in with that space, or does it? Does moving the monitor offer a complete solution to your hypothesis or are other experiments required as well?
My experiment was to prove that the magnetic field is axially symmetrical and bound to the magnet. Therefore the experiment is complete as proof of my hypothesis.
Maybe you meant NOT bound to the magnet, and I agree with that.
I suggest that the axial field is not bound to anything and is free to rotate with the magnet or not. In this case the field is bound to the screen because this is where the least work would be done.
Some believe the field is locked to space, and rotating the monitor would show a field rotation on the screen.
The axial field is symmetrical - therefore it does not matter how you rotate the magnet, the flux density will be the same for any given radius from the magnetic center. Only when the field is asymmetric will you see deviations during rotation.
To cause an asymmetric field, simply attach a small ferrous particle somewhere on the pole face.
Imagine your pattern on the screen using the wand to be a 2 dimensional slice through a 3 dimensional iron atom that's maybe an inch in diameter. as you tilt the wand you scan the shape of the cluster 3 dimensional field poles of electron shells. the tv screen is actually showing you what the iron atom looks like one slice at a time, I think. I could be wrong but I think the iron atoms in the magnet are lensing/projecting in the flux their architecture via the energy flowing through the magnet
My model requires a belief in time does not exist. Now exists and and past and future are only logical constructs. It also requires no gravity and what causes us to stick to the earth is the expansion of space or the flow of something through space that has an impedance on light and matter. It should be possible then to think of hydrodynamics as the universal field theory.I'm heavily influenced by classical physics and e=mc^2, Tewari, Depalma, Searl, Tesla, Nordberg, Reich, Schauberger...
oops wrong video, thinking of the spinning disc under the glass bowl experiment.
I think the patterns on the screen are scalar interferences from crossing or constricting streams of space. I think the flux vector is related to the same principle causing barbell shaped electron orbits around the atomic nucleus. I'ts hard to describe but I see space flowing through a magnet like water flows through a restriction.
or maybe it's better to say I see space flowing through the atomic structure of matter like water flows through a bed of gravel. It only works if the mag field is an aspect of space and not of the magnet but is influenced by the magnet. Iron must be a better conductor or conduit of space than other elements and diamagnetic materials might be insulators from space causing the flow of space to redirect around diamagnetics.
..or when the disc is rotating fast enough that the magnets are entering a collapsing field propagated by a previous magnet's position there that it adds to or multiplys a magnetic field spike . When the magnets were at rest the field was strongest at that point and since it takes time for the field to propagate then the strength of the field manifested by the moving magnet at any point would not peak as high as the field at rest if that magnet were moving faster than the speed of propagation
external and equatorial flux vector?I dont know what that means or don't remember. I'm thinking the expansion of the universe the astrophysicists talk about is causing gravity as in if space wasn't expanding then things would not appear to be attracted I think there is a push on matter by the flow of space expanding out from the center of the universe or from the flow of something unknown through space. In your experiment to corealis affect could be a factor in spin direction or...
In other words the magnet is constricting the omnidirectional expansion of space into a north-south linear flow of space in the regeon of the magnet. the shapes on the screen are not changed because the magnet is only condensing the space flow that is already there into a moment of stress and does not actually create the pattern. the tunneling of expanding space throught the venturi of the magnet is a hydrodynamic function.
Interesting Hypothesis - How does this expansion and the observed magnetic effect demonstrated here relate to the rotation and revolution of the Earth? Also, how do we resolve the fact that along any magnetic equatorial line, the external flux vector is 180° out of phase with the B vector? I found the results of Gravity Probe-B very interesting as it relates to space-time and frame dragging.
the magnetic field is a biasing of space-flow it's not a force exhibited by the magnet itself. The atoms within the magnet align the flow of space by the alignment of the iron atoms and the spin of the electrons. particles are actually light flowing in a sperical wave through space and space is moving as the universe expands. Universal expansion is the most basic homogenous flow of space and is responsible for gravity.
A lot of monitors/TV's have a shadow mask layer in the tube which is thin metal with tiny holes. Sony uses an aperture grille which is very fine wires. Sometimes you can look close and see a support wire on your screen to keep the grille from collapsing. I think the tunnel effect is the same as when you point a camera at a mirror. The guns usually are a triangle pattern, Sony guns are in line...Trinitron, if spelled correctly.
because on these cylindrical magnets the north and south poles are at the end of cylinder. or in the case of the larger magnet the 2 large surfaces. so no there wouldn't be a change in magnetic fields.
The magnetic field bends a "stream"/beam of electrons.
If the field is horizontal, the bending occurs vertically. The colors displayed on the monitor are dependent on the angle of the electron beam. Your magnet is only deflecting/interfering with the electron beam.
True, and there is some interaction with the mask behind the phosphor; but why does any movement except an axial movement cause an interaction? Why is the axial field independant of motion? The field is there because if causes a pattern, but why doesn't the pattern rotate with the magnet as it does on the other two axis? ;-)
if an electron was traveling through a horizontal magnetic field then the deflection would be vertical. since the colors on a crt monitor are dependent on the angle of the beam, the field deflects or causes a change in that angle.
Actually there are 3 guns and the color is dependant on when the grid voltage for the gun is turned on and at what intensity. There is a separate grid for each gun. The yoke coils move all 3 beams together in a sweeping pattern across the screen dropping 1 row of pixles at a time for each sweep. I have selected White which is maximum intensity of all 3 colors. When an electron enters the magnetic field of my magnet it will experience a force perpendicular to its travel vector and ...
...perpendicular to the B field of the magnet using the right hand rule. It is a bit more complex than that because there are incident angles involved, but suffice it to say, some of the electrons do not hit their intended target. Some hit the mask which typically has a honeycomb configuration and some hit pixels they were not intended to hit. The resulting color pattern is a map of the forces involved. Therefore, the force vectors should be obvious by the pattern they produce. Why do we see ...
... overlapping circles in the pattern if the field is supposed to be uniform axially? Here is another way to prove the field does not rotate: Couple two magnets axially but keep the separated some distance by some pivotal method like string holding each back. Rotate one of the magnets and note that although the magnets are coupled magnetically, they do not rotate the other magnet. The field remains stationary when the material is rotated. That is why the colors do not change in my axial demo.
I would think that the beam is deflected at different distances and different amounts of deflection would occur. The magnetic field farthest from the magnet would be weakest, but the deflected beam would have the farthest to travel on it's deflected path and would also encounter stronger lines of flux while approaching the magnet. My monitor is not honeycomb, but is a grill and the guns would be inline and not a triangle. Try this experiment on a b/w tv and see what happens.
You would not know if the mask was a honeycomb unless you check the manufacture drawings or disassemble the CRT because the mask is behind the phosphor and generally no part of it is visible after assembly. The guns themselves are almost always in-line horizontal even though the pixels they strike are usually grouped in a triangle. Some of the older lower res monitors had the pixles in-line also. Search 'Dot Pitch' for more info. Sorry, no B&W here :(
Excellent , Ok nothing on the "B" axis. Could this be because the field is the same at all places in time and space and therefore does not show up on the monitor. Could it be rotating and simply not evident visually on the monitor.
Perhaps, but compare this to the spikes you have seen with ferrofluid. Why do the spikes form the way they do? Why do they not rotate with the magnet? How is the B field disconnected from magnet motion? ;-)
theory ... magnitism is two dimentional... what we see as a megnetic field is polarity caused by spin... we can only measure magnitism when there is a polarity ... polarity can only be present in three dimensional space...therefore does a magnetic field rotate with an objec? ... hmm ... in reference to the two dimensional magnetism I would say no .... in reference to the three dimensional polarity I would say yes... again just a theory *<:0)
helpmonkey 5 months ago
@helpmonkey ,
Hi :)
I think Maxwell and Heaviside as well as Tesla all felt the magnetic field was 3D or even 4D (including time). You may find youtube user, SirZerp's work enlightening on this matter:
watch?v=XT3NrFfQclg&feature=player_profilepage
Also youtube user, Pinestonemtn has some interesting videos as well:
watch?v=byxCYvDjFRM
Did you notice also, the effect when the magnet is drawn to and from the screen?
What if we used two magnets
AdminOnDuty 5 months ago
So basically if that were the case then starting rotating a magnet along its axis as a homopolar motor would not generate current. However it does generate current. Because the electrons starting from a stand still must experience a change in flux to be compelled forward. Even though that flux remains of equal flux density along the axis of rotation. Basically what I am saying is you are not rotating the magnet fast enough along its axis to see any effect.
forevereternal22 8 months ago
@forevereternal22
Thanks for your thoughtful response ;-)
When conventional current flows in a homopolar motor wire, it leaves the center of the battery positive and moves radially outward across the variant magnetic field. This produces a force that is perpendicular to the current flow and perpendicular to the B field. This also occurs along the edge of the battery because the field is not uniform along that edge, so a force exists there as well.
What do you think the force pushes against?
AdminOnDuty 8 months ago
ahem... I mean rotation of magnetic flux around the central axis of the magnetic field
forevereternal22 8 months ago
If you are correct and I do not believe you are. Then how would you explain how a homopolar motor rotates along the axis of the magnetic field. I believe the only working explanation is that there is rotation of magnetic flux even along the axis.
forevereternal22 8 months ago
The reason that you are you do not see a change is because the magnetic field of the magnet is evenly distributer and as you can see from the reaction of your camera the monitor it is not, that is why you get those straight lines. My understanding of tvs/monitors is that they have an electron gun at the back firing at the phosphorus on the the front of the screen in successive lines which are stationary normally on a horizontal orientation. The weak magnetic equator cant induce a change
MercJ777 10 months ago
@MercJ777
The reason is because the flux angle and flux density is the same for any give radius from the center of the magnet all the way around.
You are correct that many TV's and Monitors have Cathode Ray Tubes that have electron guns and this is true of the one used in the video. However, the 'stationary' lines are a product of our eyes persistence of vision coupled with the photo-emissive phosphor. If you had a fast enough camera, you would see that they are really only successive dots.
AdminOnDuty 10 months ago
@MercJ777
The camera "bars" are caused by timing interference in the framing of the screens.
The magnetic patterns are produced by interactions of the screen components and the induced magnetic fields that interaction produces. The electrons take a different path when they travel through the field and this is what causes the patterns as the electrons hit different phosphor than they were intended to. The fact that the patterns do not change as the magnet is rotated, shows axial symmetry for B
AdminOnDuty 10 months ago
I think that this experiment does not work because the part you putting on the screen is only the north or the south.If you put both the south and the north on the screen and you rotate both of them then you will have some rotating field lines.
100mButterfly 1 year ago
@100mButterfly ,
The reason there is no rotation is because the cross section of the field that intersects the screen (Gaussian surface) is symmetrical in a circle around the center of the pole. For any radius from that center, the flux is the same around the circumference of that radius. The CRT electron interaction with that flux will only change if the flux magnitude or the angle of the flux changes. Since neither of these things change during rotation the pattern does not change. ;-)
AdminOnDuty 1 year ago
Now that is an interesting 1/2 experiment, is it not?
All that remains is to keep the magnet still and rotate the monitor!
I guess then if the field lines are fixed in space, it would rotate on the monitor if the monitor was rotated. (This is the other half of the experiment)
lumen0 1 year ago
@lumen0
Interesting hypothesis.
Do you suppose then, that space rotates with the Earth in it's rotation and orbits? Or does the Earth pass through it? Where then does the monitor fit in with that space, or does it? Does moving the monitor offer a complete solution to your hypothesis or are other experiments required as well?
My experiment was to prove that the magnetic field is axially symmetrical and bound to the magnet. Therefore the experiment is complete as proof of my hypothesis.
AdminOnDuty 1 year ago
@AdminOnDuty
You say "the field is bound to the magnet"?
Maybe you meant NOT bound to the magnet, and I agree with that.
I suggest that the axial field is not bound to anything and is free to rotate with the magnet or not. In this case the field is bound to the screen because this is where the least work would be done.
Some believe the field is locked to space, and rotating the monitor would show a field rotation on the screen.
lumen0 1 year ago
@lumen0,
The field is bound to the magnet.
Where the magnet goes, the field goes.
The axial field is symmetrical - therefore it does not matter how you rotate the magnet, the flux density will be the same for any given radius from the magnetic center. Only when the field is asymmetric will you see deviations during rotation.
To cause an asymmetric field, simply attach a small ferrous particle somewhere on the pole face.
Cheers!
AdminOnDuty 1 year ago
Imagine your pattern on the screen using the wand to be a 2 dimensional slice through a 3 dimensional iron atom that's maybe an inch in diameter. as you tilt the wand you scan the shape of the cluster 3 dimensional field poles of electron shells. the tv screen is actually showing you what the iron atom looks like one slice at a time, I think. I could be wrong but I think the iron atoms in the magnet are lensing/projecting in the flux their architecture via the energy flowing through the magnet
goodfingerz 2 years ago
My model requires a belief in time does not exist. Now exists and and past and future are only logical constructs. It also requires no gravity and what causes us to stick to the earth is the expansion of space or the flow of something through space that has an impedance on light and matter. It should be possible then to think of hydrodynamics as the universal field theory.I'm heavily influenced by classical physics and e=mc^2, Tewari, Depalma, Searl, Tesla, Nordberg, Reich, Schauberger...
goodfingerz 2 years ago
oops wrong video, thinking of the spinning disc under the glass bowl experiment.
I think the patterns on the screen are scalar interferences from crossing or constricting streams of space. I think the flux vector is related to the same principle causing barbell shaped electron orbits around the atomic nucleus. I'ts hard to describe but I see space flowing through a magnet like water flows through a restriction.
goodfingerz 2 years ago
or maybe it's better to say I see space flowing through the atomic structure of matter like water flows through a bed of gravel. It only works if the mag field is an aspect of space and not of the magnet but is influenced by the magnet. Iron must be a better conductor or conduit of space than other elements and diamagnetic materials might be insulators from space causing the flow of space to redirect around diamagnetics.
goodfingerz 2 years ago
..or when the disc is rotating fast enough that the magnets are entering a collapsing field propagated by a previous magnet's position there that it adds to or multiplys a magnetic field spike . When the magnets were at rest the field was strongest at that point and since it takes time for the field to propagate then the strength of the field manifested by the moving magnet at any point would not peak as high as the field at rest if that magnet were moving faster than the speed of propagation
goodfingerz 2 years ago
external and equatorial flux vector?I dont know what that means or don't remember. I'm thinking the expansion of the universe the astrophysicists talk about is causing gravity as in if space wasn't expanding then things would not appear to be attracted I think there is a push on matter by the flow of space expanding out from the center of the universe or from the flow of something unknown through space. In your experiment to corealis affect could be a factor in spin direction or...
goodfingerz 2 years ago
In other words the magnet is constricting the omnidirectional expansion of space into a north-south linear flow of space in the regeon of the magnet. the shapes on the screen are not changed because the magnet is only condensing the space flow that is already there into a moment of stress and does not actually create the pattern. the tunneling of expanding space throught the venturi of the magnet is a hydrodynamic function.
goodfingerz 2 years ago
Interesting Hypothesis - How does this expansion and the observed magnetic effect demonstrated here relate to the rotation and revolution of the Earth? Also, how do we resolve the fact that along any magnetic equatorial line, the external flux vector is 180° out of phase with the B vector? I found the results of Gravity Probe-B very interesting as it relates to space-time and frame dragging.
Cheers,
Harvey
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
the magnetic field is a biasing of space-flow it's not a force exhibited by the magnet itself. The atoms within the magnet align the flow of space by the alignment of the iron atoms and the spin of the electrons. particles are actually light flowing in a sperical wave through space and space is moving as the universe expands. Universal expansion is the most basic homogenous flow of space and is responsible for gravity.
goodfingerz 2 years ago
i think its because you are not changing the north or south pole you are rotating around the pole/
slacker361 2 years ago
A lot of monitors/TV's have a shadow mask layer in the tube which is thin metal with tiny holes. Sony uses an aperture grille which is very fine wires. Sometimes you can look close and see a support wire on your screen to keep the grille from collapsing. I think the tunnel effect is the same as when you point a camera at a mirror. The guns usually are a triangle pattern, Sony guns are in line...Trinitron, if spelled correctly.
solarsynapse 2 years ago
because on these cylindrical magnets the north and south poles are at the end of cylinder. or in the case of the larger magnet the 2 large surfaces. so no there wouldn't be a change in magnetic fields.
but it does beg the question of the ocpmm
lucky13XOC 2 years ago
5:50 lol.
That would be a great desktop.
Xjkjk3264X 2 years ago
You have my permission to copy it and use it.
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
The magnetic field bends a "stream"/beam of electrons.
If the field is horizontal, the bending occurs vertically. The colors displayed on the monitor are dependent on the angle of the electron beam. Your magnet is only deflecting/interfering with the electron beam.
InvalidMemberAccount 2 years ago
True, and there is some interaction with the mask behind the phosphor; but why does any movement except an axial movement cause an interaction? Why is the axial field independant of motion? The field is there because if causes a pattern, but why doesn't the pattern rotate with the magnet as it does on the other two axis? ;-)
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
the magnetic field deflects the electron's path.
if an electron was traveling through a horizontal magnetic field then the deflection would be vertical. since the colors on a crt monitor are dependent on the angle of the beam, the field deflects or causes a change in that angle.
InvalidMemberAccount 2 years ago
Actually there are 3 guns and the color is dependant on when the grid voltage for the gun is turned on and at what intensity. There is a separate grid for each gun. The yoke coils move all 3 beams together in a sweeping pattern across the screen dropping 1 row of pixles at a time for each sweep. I have selected White which is maximum intensity of all 3 colors. When an electron enters the magnetic field of my magnet it will experience a force perpendicular to its travel vector and ...
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
...perpendicular to the B field of the magnet using the right hand rule. It is a bit more complex than that because there are incident angles involved, but suffice it to say, some of the electrons do not hit their intended target. Some hit the mask which typically has a honeycomb configuration and some hit pixels they were not intended to hit. The resulting color pattern is a map of the forces involved. Therefore, the force vectors should be obvious by the pattern they produce. Why do we see ...
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
... overlapping circles in the pattern if the field is supposed to be uniform axially? Here is another way to prove the field does not rotate: Couple two magnets axially but keep the separated some distance by some pivotal method like string holding each back. Rotate one of the magnets and note that although the magnets are coupled magnetically, they do not rotate the other magnet. The field remains stationary when the material is rotated. That is why the colors do not change in my axial demo.
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
I would think that the beam is deflected at different distances and different amounts of deflection would occur. The magnetic field farthest from the magnet would be weakest, but the deflected beam would have the farthest to travel on it's deflected path and would also encounter stronger lines of flux while approaching the magnet. My monitor is not honeycomb, but is a grill and the guns would be inline and not a triangle. Try this experiment on a b/w tv and see what happens.
InvalidMemberAccount 2 years ago
You are correct regarding the deflection.
You would not know if the mask was a honeycomb unless you check the manufacture drawings or disassemble the CRT because the mask is behind the phosphor and generally no part of it is visible after assembly. The guns themselves are almost always in-line horizontal even though the pixels they strike are usually grouped in a triangle. Some of the older lower res monitors had the pixles in-line also. Search 'Dot Pitch' for more info. Sorry, no B&W here :(
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
Nice demo thanks for showing this.
smokyatgroups 3 years ago
The magnet is magnetized along its length, is that correct?
tracmag 3 years ago
Excellent , Ok nothing on the "B" axis. Could this be because the field is the same at all places in time and space and therefore does not show up on the monitor. Could it be rotating and simply not evident visually on the monitor.
tracmag 3 years ago
Perhaps, but compare this to the spikes you have seen with ferrofluid. Why do the spikes form the way they do? Why do they not rotate with the magnet? How is the B field disconnected from magnet motion? ;-)
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago
reference?
lucky13XOC 2 years ago
watch?v=zpBxCnHU8Ao
Cheers
AdminOnDuty 2 years ago