Government should get out of EVERYTHING! Health insurance companies are a kind of socialised medicine - we pay into it all our lives, never get sick - why should we be paying premiums to cover those that do? Government is taking our money for stuff we never use. Let private companies build road, and charge to use them. House on fire? - give your credit card number first, the fire brigade will come out. Privatise the military, and they can choose the most profitable wars to fight for themselves.
So.... Communism it is? Not Soviet communism, but the other communism..... Because Soviets are what people will think of and be ass holes about.... So good luck? Let me tell you, there are some stupid people out there, okay not some, a whole fucking lot.
Republicans are more likely to say they fight the idea of a big government. Well, let's now talk about ethics, religion, sex, wars and you'll see WHO supports big government. That's why I proudly turned libertarian ! :-)
@96gfan Ron Paul will restore honor to America. He'll run it the way our founding fathers wanted it to be run. Don't vote for Romney! I'm telling you!
If we could just get the government out of health care instead of having them pander to special interest groups, everyone would be able to afford health care on their own.
Really, it's not even a matter of whether other people should have to pay for you. Don't just throw someone else's money at the problem as we've been doing on every issue for decades, FIX THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.
I don't get it. You are upset that the government, run by these Democrats and Republicans, sells out to medical corporations, so you want them to institute a bureaucratic nightmare that pretty much guarantees those same medical corporations will get paid whatever they demand out of the government, while destroys the ability for people to get more efficient healthcare from companies? I think I'll pass.
WHOA WHOA WHOA. Expanding the powers of the federal government is NOT a good idea bros. Look at how they've f**ked everything else up. 15 trillion in debt, 3 wars, skyrocketed unemployment and huge inflation. F**k the feds they don't deserve the right to control our healthcare.
@1337wafflezz Haha it obviously is satire. But the scary thing is there are a lot of people that actually believe government can provide services more efficiently than the free market.
Yet any personal experience dealing with the government be it renewing a passport, filling out taxes, dealing with any sort of paper work involves SLOW and UNCARING service.
You know what the real problem is when 50%+ either rely on government, or work for the government!
Just a thought lets say you have 300+ million americans each month they are taxed 1$ that 1$ goes into a single pay medical bank where anyone who needs treatment can get what they need. After 1 month thats 300million dollars in the bank. After 12 months its 1.2 Billion$.
if its 2$ its 2.4 billion
if 50$ a month for free health care its 180billion a year.
or for the sake of argument 150$ a month, 540 billion!
So 1$ or 150$ how much would you pay for free health care? How much is your insurance?
@Boondock980 We spend over 2 trillion on healthcare a year and we have a labor force of about 150 million people. That means for everyone to have free healthcare, each one of those working people have to contribute $1k per MONTH. Considering some of these people are not even netting $1k per month, I don't see how this is at all feasible.
@nexus1g The issue seems to be a for profit system that will charge you enough for a nice house. Put it under federal control where the government dictates the prices. Single payer system in a nutshell. Take the private interest out of the equation.
@Boondock980 Even if we cut down healthcare costs by half, that's still $500 per working person per month. Some of these people are $900 a month before taxes and deductions. It's something that simply cannot happen.
@Boondock980 Let's take it to the extreme... Let's say that all 300 million Americans are working and we cut the cost of health care by half. Given this scenario, it still isn't even feasible as every American would have to give over $250 a month.
@Boondock980 And keep in mind that this is just the healthcare costs. This doesn't include the additional money needed for the management overhead for the system.
@Boondock980 Just to give you an idea on how much money we're talking about -- even our out-of-control military spending could not pay for healthcare for everyone.
This is the ONLY accurate discription of Dems and REpublicans. Now I'm against Universal Health care, but still, thumbed you up because well, you actually realize that they are one in the same.
Tell Congress to force people to pay into another federal program based on force and coercion, and we'll put you in a cage or steal your money if you don't like what we're forcing you to buy or pay into. Yea the guy that represents America on the right fits right in with Democrats and Republicans.
I call bias, you made the democrat look like someone consistintly on drugs or old, and wrinkly, and the republican a handsome, good-looking, clean person.
Medicare...a government run entitlement program...run efficiently? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha...you have GOT to be kidding! Nice joke though...BTW...you're not fooling anyone, this is a Democrat disinformation campaign.
@YourSkyliner ...No, I'm the 53%. Medicare is in the red because it is run by federal bureaucrats who spend according projections not contolled by any fraud mitigation or cost containment. If you had a private administation who ran it like a business, you might have a program that would stay solvent...but that's not on the table is it?
If you had actually watched any of the videos in this series you would know they are down on BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties. and by the way, your perverse use of "Democrat" as an adjective brands you as a Republican operative and troll. it's diagnostic and YOU are not fooling anyone. typically you have no real policy argument to add to the debate, only derision and contempt.
@peaceteam ...well, if Medicare is your dream solution to the heathcare ills of this country, perhaps you should be bitching at Obama, not me, he's the one who oversaw the Democrat House and Democrat Senate pass legislation that cut $500 Billion out of Medicare fundng.....oh, but YOU'RE the one with a REAL argument...and what was that again?
jokertim77 writes: "I don't want to be included in your medical ponzi scheme." Typical of some brainwashed right-winger who has never really thought about this, nor found themselves with a loved one dying for lack of medical care or medicines. Those "market forces" are great until they force your mother to die.
But remember, socialized healthcare with no tort reform will mean less pay for doctors and more regulation on how they do their jobs. Do you really want a doctor who works by the hour, or a doctor who works by the patient? I come from a family of doctors who occassionally get patients from Canada and the UK, and they complain all the time how the socialized medical care there is so terrible because the doctors have no incentive at all to work. And I'm a Democrat.
@af4k Your dying family member is not my responsibility, nor is YOUR lack of health care. YOU are the reason you dont have any health care, not the rest of us. Your statement suggests that we should take money from my house, where i provide food, shelter, clothing, and health care for my family, and give it to yours because.....??????
No one survives alone. When many, many people in the game are losing, maybe it's time to say we should change the rules a little and give other people access to medical care. BTW, if you're a fiscal conservative, medicare-for-all is by far the cheapest (most efficient) way to do health care (according to the non-partisan Office of Congressional Budget).
@memnokthedevil333 Because you're a compassionate human being. Oh wait, you think another dying human being is not your responsibility... I guess you have the compassion of a psychopath actually.
@memnokthedevil333 That's not fair in the slightest. The only reason you have these things is because you were born into it. And just because of birth doesn't mean there's a RIGHT to something, it just shows you have a gift. Which isn't a bad thing, btw! But what you're saying is that "your dying family member is not MY problem."
Here, on a fiscal side: once that family member goes to the E.R., it's going to cost a lot more than if that member simply got smaller pieces of free medication.
@memnokthedevil333 Because otherwise they may starve and die. The Government has a responsibility to take care of its citizens. Do you think someone who cannot afford healthcare should simply be allowed to die? To me, that is insanity. I understand what your saying totally but would an insignificant amount of income really be so terrible when being put to the use of saving another persons life? Just something to think about.
Genesis 4:9: Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”
Even desert tribes thousands of years ago knew better than to pretend others' suffering wasn't their responsibility. Have we really regressed so far since then?
@memnokthedevil333 right not where is he was born, or wealth just handed down from your parents in your non-dysfunctional household. Everything we all do is done on our own and our own responsibilities, not instilled values, perspectives, and the random vagina we were all lucky enough to crawl out of?
@af4k Shut the fuck up douche bag. You dont like America Canada is a days drive away fagot! How about you sponge off their system. or Mexico that place is cool
I am a democrat,because republicans are selfish,cheap,and RETARDS! they honestly only care about themselfs by letting the rich not pay taxes and screwing everything up!!!! STOP VOTING FOR THEM! Bush put us in this war and now their blaming obama for not gettings us out of it!
@JurassicGator You have it all wrong dude. Republicans aren't bad at all. THE REAL republicans. The fake neo conservatives (bill oriely, Rush limbaugh, and glen beck just a short from the media) Are what ruin the republican name and our country. Same shit with democrats. They are both very similar but the far left and far right wing morons are what ruin it for us.
The republicans mission and only mission is to do as much harm to this country and its people no matter who it hurts, and from their last surge to power you can see that happening right now in 2011, and if it wasn’t for our president finally seeing that and specking up and out to us about it we wouldn’t have a chance, we must vote them out as many and as soon as we can, we must all of the good people left here of all races. And we must start yesterday!!
@clarenceisgay "The republicans mission and only mission is to do as much harm to this country and its people no matter who it hurts" Very little intell on that statement. Do you even know how the republican and democratic parties wherer formed? Do you even know what REAL republicans beleive in? Do you even know what a republic is? IF these cons where real republicans, Then they wouldn't go against the constitution, they would follow it, and promote free trade which we would prosper with.
Get used to Minimum wage since the corporatist GOP and corporatist DNC have been shipping our skilled high paying jobs overseas and then allowing liars to come here on H1B's to take even more of them working for near minimum wages. to corporatists, they want us ALL to be sub-minimum wage serfs competing with the serfs in China and Africa.
They want it so that either you are screwing someone over, or you are getting screwed. They created and perpetuate this paradigm and punish those who resist. They want no middle class. As for those who think Communism is so evil, do you consider that the Communists have taken our jobs, support our national debt and make most of our stuff?
Our corrupt economy is now totally dependent on communist slave labor and capital. Meanwhile our corporatist masters have this "Disease Care" trick up their sleeve. They will cap insurance companies profits at 15% - but will NOT cap health care spending. This means insurance companies can only increase profits by SPENDING MORE - Right now they make profits by not treating people and excluding people.
When their profits are tied to Spending more, they WILL! And what that means is that premiums will go up like crazy ! How will working people afford that? There is NO cap on premiums!!! No cap on these disease care expenditures. The only cap is that insurance companies only get 15% of what they spend. Do you get it? They don't care about Cures, Healing, Prevention or Health. This is purely about Who will profit and who will pay. They will profit and WE will pay.
Yes, I want this health care bill, I have always wanted a Politician to wipe my shitty ass. You guys are so full of it you don't even know the stars are not close to the earth. Matter of fact, you probably think the world is a large Flat Table.
Government and Everybody else is out to screw you and let you have the baby on your own. Depend on yourself and you will always be there.
seriously, is it possible for you drop kick right wingers make a policy argument based on anything except that fact that you have toilet for a mouth??
You Sir, fail to do your homework, or if you did your homework, you are exposing a Marxist tendency. Health Care is not supposed to make us ill, and if you can read this bill and not get ill, your cancer has become terminal.
Great videos. Too bad about twenty to thirty percent of the country is trying to out-douchebag their neighbor by by seeing how low they can go in the debate and on the other side, people are buying into any change is good.
typical that an ignorant right winger cannot make a policy argument without descending to obscenities. we will leave your comment up, just to demonstrate what a foul-minded cretin you are.
otherwise nobody here is talking about FORCING anyone to participate in a Medicare for All OPTION. if you don't want to participate, go for your existing corporate rip off.
So, the answer to Tyrannical Big Government Boondoggles is to extend one of the worst Tyrannical Big Government Boondoggle to all American Citizens (and Illegal Aliens)?
Medicare for All was never intended to "answer Tyrannical BG Boondoggles"; it is intended to escape tyrannical for-profit healthcare deniers. Or rather, to give you the option to make such escape. If you like your insurance company ripping you off, nobody will stop you from paying their stockholders. If you can afford it.
HR676 does have a solution for funding it - 3% increase in taxes for all those who work, 4% increase in payroll taxes for employers, and graduated increases in taxes for the top 10% of income earners.
I don't know about you, but paying to cover myself through insurance companies costs a lot more than 3%, or even 7% - through my work it never got lower than 20% of my income.
Medicare for all? No thanks, I don't want it. You can have it though if you want to pay for it. I don't want to be included in your medical ponzi scheme.
I'll just pay my doctor cash for services and buy a low premium catastrophic coverage plan. That way the free market forces of competition and value can drive innovation and prices rather than DC bureaucrats. It will also cut into the profits of large corporate insurance companies by people reducing their plan coverage and premiums.
>I'll just pay my doctor cash for services and buy a low >premium catastrophic coverage plan.
Gosh, that sounds great. I've looked into those plans. I could pay $500 a month for a plan with a $3000 deductible. Three itsy-bitsy problems with this:
1. I can't afford $500/month
2. I couldn't afford the deductible should I get sick.
3. The insurance company would weasel out of paying if I got really sick.
In a free market, each person has the ability to weigh the costs and benefits for themselves and make their own decision. Plan coverages and rates differ not only by employer and State, but by individual as well (age, history, etc.)
HSA Plans allow for tax free health care savings (I have one).
If you don't believe in private insurance, don't buy it and save your money to self-insure. You can always be treated for free at the emergency room if something bad happens.
Yeah, and guess who pays for those "free" E-room visits - you and me. And does your "something bad" include cancer? Do you think you could save enough money to "self insure" on minimum wage or anywhere close to it? If you care even a little bit about other people you will see that our current system is wrong.
There are lots of things wrong with our healthcare system now, but giving everyone Medicare will just make things worse... not better.
Many hospitals and individual doctors do charity work (even with cancer patients) and I accept that I pay higher prices to help support those in need who cannot pay.
However, saving is not a function of how much you make. Minimum wage earners can save for medical expenses (I know, I did it).
Soon, our government may be too broke to help anyone. What then?
If you accept paying high prices to support those in need, then what do you have against a public plan? The current proposal will actually lower costs and reduce the deficit, And again, did you save enough on min. wage for chemo, or major surgery, or expensive medicines all while paying rent and possibly raising children? Bravo if you did that on $7.50 an hour.
There is a big difference in providing critical care and a public option. Lower costs and reduce the deficit? You don't actually believe that, and neither do I.
I did SAVE on minimum wage, but I didn't STAY on minimum wage. You make it sound like people are forced to work for $7.50 their whole lives.
Most minimum wage earners are teens and seniors. Teens who will wait to have kids (until they are more financially secure), and seniors who already have Medicare. Teens also require less care.
As a matter of fact, I do believe it will lower costs and reduce the deficit. To find out how, just change the channel from Fox once in a while. And yes, there are many people who live there whole lives making min. wage or close to it. Not everyone has the opportunity or the skills to advance, its a sad and simple fact. Additionally, the reason many of these people are in that situation is because they have serious illnesses or disabilities, which makes it difficult to get private insurance.
First of all, I don't watch Fox News. Secondly, stop drinking the administration Kool-Aid and research our government's track record of estimating medical program costs.
I find it ridiculous that you want to point to a tiny sliver of our population and say that because that group can't afford Health Insurance, everyone should have Medicare. Its completely absurd. If that group is not currently covered by State services (they are in my State) then advocate covering them only.
Currently the plan doesn't force anyone to do anything, except possibly that you must have some form of insurance. Just because there aren't that many of them doesn't mean we can ignore them. I certainly don't agree with this admin. all the time, but I've felt we've needed universal healthcare long before now. Its too bad we won't get it, the Dems are much too weak to pass real reform. What I find ridiculous is that the richest nation in the world can't do what many other countries can do.
How do you feel now that the health care reform bill has passed. I'm a Republican and believe it or not I'm willing to give Obama's health care a chance because I believe that health care is a social issue that needs to be addressed in this country.
@Trekiefreak777 That's a huge problem with this country. You shouldn't ALWAYS vote one party, that's stupid. Make the decision that YOU think is best. I think Obama is a pretty terribl president, but I can give him credit for repealing DADT. That's something that never would have happened under a conservative president, and I'm glad it has been repealed.
Stealing is also cheaper than buying, but that doesn't make it good policy.
The government can't provide health care cheaper than the market can, it can only promise to do so... and then fail miserably when people realize all the unfunded liabilities that have been hidden from them. Population demographics have turned against the Ponzi scheme pyramid that has allowed people to be tricked into thinking this plan was working until now.
Oh ok, I never knew that non-profitt mas more expensive then profitt.
They CAN do it cheaper, because they CAN run it without any profitt. Any private hospital is owned by a private person, thus that person want profitt. So the only way that person can do that is to either increase costs or decrease what he gives the workers.
I wish the world was as simple as your shallow dogma implies it to be... sadly, it's not. You can wish for government health services to be cheaper by repeating your mantra (non profit), but that doesn't change the fact that government increases the costs of services in the real world.
Besides confusing government with actual private non profits organizations (which are beneficial), you lack a basic understanding of economic reality that prevents a meaningful discussion. Bye.
@datott Which, when private people do it, in 100% of the cases is just a code word for giving workers worse labour rights, paying them less or making a worse deal to the people using the service. Besides, there isnt anything way to make it more efficent that the government cant do. And its not like private people can just magically turn down the price.
@gulbirk yes, and all north koreans agree, the state is a much better employer than private enterprises. Private entrepreneurs can make things more effecient, that's where all our wealth comes from (for example: thats why we can write blogcomments on Youtube using our Laptops).
@datott That is bullshit. Tell me, why did the market fail at providing people with wealth until the government stepped in?
Not once did I say we should nationalise our industry either you fucking idiot . The fact that you dont see a difference between public healthcare and nationalising industry proves my point. You are a moron. On a side note though, we the Norwegians paid less for electricity when the state controlled it. No, all companies just try to make it profit from it.
@gulbirk I used to be a leftist like you at your age. As you grow up you will see that wealth does not come from distribution of capital. Wealth comes from creation. The government can never be better at creating stuff than driven individuals doing what they do best.
Chanting bad words at somebody on youtube won't change that fact, it will only make you look desperate.
@datott Ok, so tell me then why the market failed at creation wealth when it had all the time from the industrial revolution and all the way up until almost modern times?
Why did government have to step in to ensure that workers werent being exploited for the sake of profit. You are dead wrong. The UN development index clearly illustrates that the distribution of wealth is why we have wealth at all.
@gulbirk Why do you believe that the market have failed at creating wealth? The wealth creation is huge! Our standard of living have risen astronomically since the first market reforms were introduced in England 300 years ago.
Thanks to market reforms (individuals who create wealth gets to keep it) countries (for example China) are moving away from poverty to wealth. Thanks to globalization and free trade we have soon erased poverty and hunger. Why do you persume this is not happening?
@datott It's rather about education but most importantly - intelligence. People who say that when other guy sets up a company and wants to make a profit out of it is a bad guy are this same people who wants get MORE money for they labour. So an employeer should be exploited in order to increase the Profit for workers for their labour. Why don't those good social people work for free or just asking for board and accomodation? That would be very much non-profit thus all right , wouldn't it?
@gulbirk Don't you know anything about economics. The fact of the manner is that for a private business to succeed they need to provide 1. a better service and 2, they need to provide it at a reasonable price. In most cases private business is actually better then that of public business. They tend to run more efficiently. Yes they do have to make profits unlike that of the public sector, but they have to compete for their business. Ex: University of Chicago Hospital or a public hospital. QOS
@Maggs009 Well, maybe because ALL the wealth you have have literally nothing to do with the market, if you look at it alone. The reason you have any wealth what so ever is because of unions and the government. If you dont believe me, how about going back to 12 hour days for 5 times as little as a minimum wage? The only reason children can get anywhere, is because of social justice, has nothing to do with the markets. General wealth came social justice.
@gulbirk PART 2: If private is so much better, why is it that the best countries at healthcare have PUBLIC health care services?
And why is it that when Norways electrical companies went from being state owned to privatised the cost was actually increased? The market turned the price up. I know why, because thats basic math. One is private and ran for profit, and the other is state owned and NON Profit.
@gulbirk Or increase efficiency, or increase product quality. Those are arguably the two most important aspects, and the government has no incentive to do either of those things, which is why removing the profit incentive even further (it's already been heavily distorted) would almost certainly increase healthcare costs and decrease quality.
@rockon6191 What utter nonsense. The government run things non profit, which is clearly cheapest. Are pro capitalists like yourselve ripped from compassion for other people?
It seems as your entire world view is saying that the only reason to do good stuff is to make money. Maybe you dont have the incentive to become better, the rest of us does. I only have one word in a response to that entire statement. CERN
@gulbirk Actually, I sincerely believe many people are compassionate and will take care of others given the opportunity. That's why I don't think we need the government to force them to. We used to have plenty of charity hospitals, until regulations, the crowding effect, and rising costs due to market distortion caused many to close. As for your statement that non profit is always the cheapest: gov institutions like the post office and public education have already proven that isn't true.
@rockon6191 Yeah, because when a profit company takes over they can lower the expenses. Which normally means pay people worse, or provide less labor rights. Thats the only way they ever make it cheaper. And yes, you are ripped from compassion. Because you could say things like ""Government dont care about making the schools more efficient which private people will"". Which is the same as saying no one cares about children, they only care about profit.
@rockon6191 Yeah, because when a profit company takes over they can lower the expenses. Which normally means pay people worse, or provide less labor rights. Thats the only way they ever make it cheaper. And yes, you are ripped from compassion. Because you could say things like ""Government dont care about making the schools more efficient which private people will"". Which is the same as saying no one cares about children, they only care about profit.
@gulbirk That was a total non-sequitor. I said government has no incentive to be efficient, because they have a virtually unlimited pool of money they can draw from, in a way creating a moral hazard. Even if they genuinely care about student welfare, the proper efficiency incentives are removed. A private company can say "I want to provide the best education to children at the most affordable cost." I don't see how that means they only care about profit.
@gulbirk And even if a private entity does only care about profit, no one can force you to work there or spend your money there. So either they provide an efficient model that creates a good product and thus make you want to spend your money there, or you don't spend your money there and they fail. The government is the only entity that can legally remove choice from the equation. Even if you choose not to use their services, you still have to pay for them (taxes).
Very elaborate parody right there. I assume you're being satirical, which, if true, means you've put a good deal of effort into making that seem serious.
Oh. You're serious? I thought you were being satirical for sure when you said that competition will bring down insurance coverage to nothing.
Not everyone can afford health care. But it is something that everyone should have a right to, just as they have rights to protection from invasion, fires, starvation, and roads. It's bad for society to have several people being bankrupted by health costs. This could be avoided if everyone were insured by one insurer and given equal rate.
You prefer to continue the charade that you thought I was joking. Okay.
Please don't say I claimed that "competition will bring down insurance coverage to nothing." You know I did no such thing.
People have a right to protect themselves from home invasion by owning a firearm (police are NOT required to save you). Fire protection is to protect ME from YOUR negligence. Starvation and Roads? Please, that's just ridiculous.
Unfortunately, we don't live in a world of isolated tribes. You may think that we can survive as cavemen who just succeeds on our own intelligence and etc. The fact is, the success of everyone is dependent on society. Without society, your education, your trade (unless you're a farmer), and your assets would be largely useless.
If you want to live in an I Me Mine society, exile yourself to the forest. But as long as you benefit from society, you must pay your favors to it.
Attempting to assign silly positions to me and then arguing against them is an incredibly poor excuse for a discussion. You comments betray an irrational hostility towards people who don't share your view. Intolerant much?
Tell me that's not all you've got? Hostility and straw men?
Not only are you unconvincing to any people skeptical to your view, you are also make those sympathetic to it embarrassed by your actions. Let that sink in for a while, and then get back to me.
Hostility isn't quite the word for it. But arguing with people who believe selfishness is the solution to everything can only be achieved by debasing their false notions that people are entirely responsible for their successes.
And what else do you argue with? Basically, you don't think the police should be responsible for rescuing you from home invasions. That's completely selfish and radical. Likewise is allowing people to starve on the roads or burn in their homes.
And unfortunately, I don't tolerate arguments that state that society itself should not exist. And that's what you're arguing, by saying the police (and supposedly military) should not exist; that people should just get guns and board themselves into their homes for protection. You also pretend like civilization would work fine without public roads or other utilities.
Sadly, your supposed moral outcry against me doesn't budge me. What I said describes you, you just don't know it.
Thank you. Your crazy ramblings have made my point far better than I ever could.
But please, don't quit now... you're on a roll. And I could use a good laugh. Tell me all about myself, since you know me so well. I'll just sit back and enjoy the show.
Ah the classical conservative holier-than-art-thou rage quit. It never fails to entertain me! Despite the fact that I've basically made a template for it...
1: Argue a moot point or radical idea. Get called out for it.
2: Defend yourself with even more radical idea or stupider point. Get called out for it.
3: Back into corner and deny allegations. Get pressed further.
4: Give up and finish with, "Thank you for proving..." or "You dumb liberals never learn" or etc. Cease arguing.
Template...that's exactly what you do, isn't it? Your contacts in life fit neatly into some flowchart or template that you already have in your head. That's why you impute motives and opinions to me that I don't hold and have never stated. You don't discuss ideas and trade information... you revert to a pre-programed, robotic dictation. You treat separate individuals as one monolithic group.
You've even been forced to rationalize why people don't respond well to you.
There is no medical "ponzi scheme" btw. You pay money into a general health care fund; if you get sick, money from that fund gets used for you and you might not pay as much as if you didn't have that insurance. If you don't it might waste your money.
This is what insurance basically is. The only difference is that single-payer insurance (one large public insurance) is nonprofit and all costs go into health care, thus reducing costs. It works in most countries, why not the US?
Great video, thanks! Medicare Part E now! E for Everyone! But we'll be lucky to ever get it since this country has been lax, and dumbed down so badly by the corporate controlled media, and the resultant low information voters have elected a congress which is a wholly owned subsidiary of trans-national corporations who have no allegiance to America. In short, it has been heading down the road to fascism since the 80's. Now we're paying the price for not paying attention.
The medicare for all is about taking choice out of the patient's hands.
It's about an enforced medical program that will NOT be in favor of anyone but big pharma and its' minions. If you value your health at all do not leave it up to those who serve lobbyists and political agendas. Freedom of choice is what we need.
Medicare gives you choice of providers and M for All would give you total choice, because providers would either accept the M payment schedule or quit the profession. Very few would quit because M would still pay a very good living--and probably pay off most or all of their academic debt.
The choice then resides in the popular political will, instead of restricted by private profit motives. That's why, contrary to what you say, big pharma hates M for All.
Isn't that what the bullies always do? Resort to name calling to dominate a conversation and to try to make themselves look superior. What's in the health care bill indicates medical communism, pure and simple. No alternative healthcare allowed and all who refuse will be documented as "non compliant." Take big pharma poisons or else. This is tied in with Codex Alimentarius and the control of all vitamins, minerals and herbs. Not interested.
You're right, name-calling should be off the table. Mine was just a funny way to call attention to your handle, apparently very retro (as opposed to progressive).
Yes, M for All is communistic. And so much the better!
But nobody would force you to take any of pharma's products.
Yes... and communism is about existence at the whim of the state. Too bad you can't ask people in China or Myanmar about that. In those countries there is no freedom of speech. But hell, in China they do benefit some by harvesting organs from those who speak out, like Falun Gong practitioners. Communism is about pure oppression and nothing more. We don't need that here.
Uh, Myanmar is not communist. China is ruled by a party that calls itself Communist (capital "c"). There has never been a true communism (small "c"). Study some.
Military huntas and communism embrace the same principle of existence at the whim of the state. In either human rights have no place. And it's obvious that the poltical factions in this country are making the move to take us there. But...contrary to what they think they will fail. Climategate is the first step in a series of spiralling failures. Keep watching...it's all going to get very interesting as the expose what they're about.
I agree with that part. Now, how does having the option to choose a govt-run plan reduce your freedom to choose? Nobody is even considering the possibility of denying you your sacred right to help insurance company CEOs buy more yachts and mansions.
Government should get out of EVERYTHING! Health insurance companies are a kind of socialised medicine - we pay into it all our lives, never get sick - why should we be paying premiums to cover those that do? Government is taking our money for stuff we never use. Let private companies build road, and charge to use them. House on fire? - give your credit card number first, the fire brigade will come out. Privatise the military, and they can choose the most profitable wars to fight for themselves.
lozman67 2 hours ago
So.... Communism it is? Not Soviet communism, but the other communism..... Because Soviets are what people will think of and be ass holes about.... So good luck? Let me tell you, there are some stupid people out there, okay not some, a whole fucking lot.
DrMFoster7 1 week ago
Republicans are more likely to say they fight the idea of a big government. Well, let's now talk about ethics, religion, sex, wars and you'll see WHO supports big government. That's why I proudly turned libertarian ! :-)
TheThreeHundredHemi 3 weeks ago
Only cyber crazy YouTube lovers are gonna vote for Ron Paul. It's pretty obvious that's who supports him. Romney 2012
96gfan 3 weeks ago
@96gfan Ron Paul will restore honor to America. He'll run it the way our founding fathers wanted it to be run. Don't vote for Romney! I'm telling you!
wowbeastfull1 4 days ago
If we could just get the government out of health care instead of having them pander to special interest groups, everyone would be able to afford health care on their own.
Really, it's not even a matter of whether other people should have to pay for you. Don't just throw someone else's money at the problem as we've been doing on every issue for decades, FIX THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.
HomicidalDonut 1 month ago
Get the government OUT of medicine all together!
JoanieDoeShadow 1 month ago
THERE IS NO DIFFRENCE BOTH ARE BLOOD SUCKERS Ron Paul 2012
Abbadon380 1 month ago 2
I don't get it. You are upset that the government, run by these Democrats and Republicans, sells out to medical corporations, so you want them to institute a bureaucratic nightmare that pretty much guarantees those same medical corporations will get paid whatever they demand out of the government, while destroys the ability for people to get more efficient healthcare from companies? I think I'll pass.
mtanousable 1 month ago
What about ponies for everyone? Vermin Supreme 2012!.....read Atlas Shrugged.
592jules 1 month ago
What if I don't want medicare?
I want freedom.
Ron Paul 2012.
SupurNinja 1 month ago
0:27 No, we don't.
ikaninjau2 1 month ago 3
Ron Paul 2012
gigaboy47 1 month ago 2
WHOA WHOA WHOA. Expanding the powers of the federal government is NOT a good idea bros. Look at how they've f**ked everything else up. 15 trillion in debt, 3 wars, skyrocketed unemployment and huge inflation. F**k the feds they don't deserve the right to control our healthcare.
1337wafflezz 1 month ago
@1337wafflezz Ok Ok but just wait and see how well the government runs things.
Like havent u been to the DMV, always friendly fast service! The IRS is a breeze to deal with, taxes aren't complicated!
I mean the government is always doing a great job, public education system envy of the world. Even private school kids do worse then public schools.
Man is there anything the government cant do!
Jamespot24 1 month ago 12
@Jamespot24 Lol nice satire...At least I hope it's satire 0.0
1337wafflezz 1 month ago
@1337wafflezz Haha it obviously is satire. But the scary thing is there are a lot of people that actually believe government can provide services more efficiently than the free market.
Yet any personal experience dealing with the government be it renewing a passport, filling out taxes, dealing with any sort of paper work involves SLOW and UNCARING service.
You know what the real problem is when 50%+ either rely on government, or work for the government!
Then theres no going back to freedom!
Jamespot24 1 month ago
Just a thought lets say you have 300+ million americans each month they are taxed 1$ that 1$ goes into a single pay medical bank where anyone who needs treatment can get what they need. After 1 month thats 300million dollars in the bank. After 12 months its 1.2 Billion$.
if its 2$ its 2.4 billion
if 50$ a month for free health care its 180billion a year.
or for the sake of argument 150$ a month, 540 billion!
So 1$ or 150$ how much would you pay for free health care? How much is your insurance?
Boondock980 2 months ago
@Boondock980 We spend over 2 trillion on healthcare a year and we have a labor force of about 150 million people. That means for everyone to have free healthcare, each one of those working people have to contribute $1k per MONTH. Considering some of these people are not even netting $1k per month, I don't see how this is at all feasible.
nexus1g 1 month ago
@nexus1g The issue seems to be a for profit system that will charge you enough for a nice house. Put it under federal control where the government dictates the prices. Single payer system in a nutshell. Take the private interest out of the equation.
Boondock980 1 month ago
@Boondock980 Even if we cut down healthcare costs by half, that's still $500 per working person per month. Some of these people are $900 a month before taxes and deductions. It's something that simply cannot happen.
nexus1g 1 month ago
@Boondock980 Let's take it to the extreme... Let's say that all 300 million Americans are working and we cut the cost of health care by half. Given this scenario, it still isn't even feasible as every American would have to give over $250 a month.
nexus1g 1 month ago
@Boondock980 And keep in mind that this is just the healthcare costs. This doesn't include the additional money needed for the management overhead for the system.
nexus1g 1 month ago
@Boondock980 Just to give you an idea on how much money we're talking about -- even our out-of-control military spending could not pay for healthcare for everyone.
nexus1g 1 month ago
@nexus1g Pray tell, where did you get those numbers?
EmmaStoneAddict 1 month ago
@EmmaStoneAddict Kaiser Permanente and the Census Bureau.
nexus1g 1 month ago
RON PAUL 2012
thehulk3010 2 months ago
This is the ONLY accurate discription of Dems and REpublicans. Now I'm against Universal Health care, but still, thumbed you up because well, you actually realize that they are one in the same.
pcgamernum1 2 months ago
*Your life
RoyalBaller9 2 months ago
Tell Congress to force people to pay into another federal program based on force and coercion, and we'll put you in a cage or steal your money if you don't like what we're forcing you to buy or pay into. Yea the guy that represents America on the right fits right in with Democrats and Republicans.
RoyalBaller9 2 months ago
Democrats and Republicans are like Nick Clegg and David Cameron, there are exactly the same.
0ct0parr0t 2 months ago
And I am a Marxist.
FlawlessCock 2 months ago
I call bias, you made the democrat look like someone consistintly on drugs or old, and wrinkly, and the republican a handsome, good-looking, clean person.
Zeldagigafan90210 2 months ago
@Zeldagigafan90210
your comment would be a text book example of age bias.
peaceteam 2 months ago
Medicare...a government run entitlement program...run efficiently? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha...you have GOT to be kidding! Nice joke though...BTW...you're not fooling anyone, this is a Democrat disinformation campaign.
kimberHD45 3 months ago
@kimberHD45 your a disinformation campaign
YourSkyliner 2 months ago
@YourSkyliner ...No, I'm the 53%. Medicare is in the red because it is run by federal bureaucrats who spend according projections not contolled by any fraud mitigation or cost containment. If you had a private administation who ran it like a business, you might have a program that would stay solvent...but that's not on the table is it?
kimberHD45 2 months ago
@kimberHD45 did fox tell you that?
YourSkyliner 2 months ago
Comment removed
kimberHD45 2 months ago
@kimberHD45
If you had actually watched any of the videos in this series you would know they are down on BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties. and by the way, your perverse use of "Democrat" as an adjective brands you as a Republican operative and troll. it's diagnostic and YOU are not fooling anyone. typically you have no real policy argument to add to the debate, only derision and contempt.
peaceteam 2 months ago
@peaceteam ...well, if Medicare is your dream solution to the heathcare ills of this country, perhaps you should be bitching at Obama, not me, he's the one who oversaw the Democrat House and Democrat Senate pass legislation that cut $500 Billion out of Medicare fundng.....oh, but YOU'RE the one with a REAL argument...and what was that again?
kimberHD45 2 months ago
yea i want free stuff, we can just pass laws and give us free stuff yay! that will work!
dem0nthesis 3 months ago
economical?
wingmanmenship 3 months ago
This video is evidence of the intelligence level of people who support Medicare for all.
RoboSlater 3 months ago
American ''democrats'' are very conservative compared to most of the world... just saying.
''who pays the bill'' <-- the billionaires :)
RedSkiesAwaitUs 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
That about sums it up!
Dionysos37 3 months ago
Who's paying the bill?
Zulske 3 months ago
Communism is the change you want?
wordfaith77840 3 months ago
low taxes woo!
small government woo!
guns woo!
hard work!
fuck socialism woo!
MrMcKusk 3 months ago
@MrMcKusk
In translation:
debt default woo!
broke government woo!
gunshots while states war over control woo!
hard work to survive and avoid marauding bands woo!
fuck society woo!
nafaidni 3 months ago
jokertim77 writes: "I don't want to be included in your medical ponzi scheme." Typical of some brainwashed right-winger who has never really thought about this, nor found themselves with a loved one dying for lack of medical care or medicines. Those "market forces" are great until they force your mother to die.
af4k 4 months ago 4
@af4k,
Are you saying that your mother died from lack of medical care/medicines? Or is this just a hypothetical example?
BTW, the reply feature makes it easy to talk TO people, instead of just ABOUT people. Give it a try.
jokertim777 3 months ago
@af4k that medical ponzi scheme is the reason it cost so much
wobinga7 2 months ago
@af4k
But remember, socialized healthcare with no tort reform will mean less pay for doctors and more regulation on how they do their jobs. Do you really want a doctor who works by the hour, or a doctor who works by the patient? I come from a family of doctors who occassionally get patients from Canada and the UK, and they complain all the time how the socialized medical care there is so terrible because the doctors have no incentive at all to work. And I'm a Democrat.
Mrpastry909 2 months ago
@af4k Your dying family member is not my responsibility, nor is YOUR lack of health care. YOU are the reason you dont have any health care, not the rest of us. Your statement suggests that we should take money from my house, where i provide food, shelter, clothing, and health care for my family, and give it to yours because.....??????
memnokthedevil333 2 months ago 21
@memnokthedevil333
No one survives alone. When many, many people in the game are losing, maybe it's time to say we should change the rules a little and give other people access to medical care. BTW, if you're a fiscal conservative, medicare-for-all is by far the cheapest (most efficient) way to do health care (according to the non-partisan Office of Congressional Budget).
erikkpritchard 2 months ago
@memnokthedevil333 Because you're a compassionate human being. Oh wait, you think another dying human being is not your responsibility... I guess you have the compassion of a psychopath actually.
nexus1g 1 month ago
@memnokthedevil333 That's not fair in the slightest. The only reason you have these things is because you were born into it. And just because of birth doesn't mean there's a RIGHT to something, it just shows you have a gift. Which isn't a bad thing, btw! But what you're saying is that "your dying family member is not MY problem."
Here, on a fiscal side: once that family member goes to the E.R., it's going to cost a lot more than if that member simply got smaller pieces of free medication.
EmmaStoneAddict 1 month ago
@memnokthedevil333 Because otherwise they may starve and die. The Government has a responsibility to take care of its citizens. Do you think someone who cannot afford healthcare should simply be allowed to die? To me, that is insanity. I understand what your saying totally but would an insignificant amount of income really be so terrible when being put to the use of saving another persons life? Just something to think about.
boondocks123o 1 month ago
To your first sentence -
Genesis 4:9: Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”
Even desert tribes thousands of years ago knew better than to pretend others' suffering wasn't their responsibility. Have we really regressed so far since then?
mahela9 2 weeks ago
@memnokthedevil333 right not where is he was born, or wealth just handed down from your parents in your non-dysfunctional household. Everything we all do is done on our own and our own responsibilities, not instilled values, perspectives, and the random vagina we were all lucky enough to crawl out of?
mikejpete 1 week ago
@af4k Shut the fuck up douche bag. You dont like America Canada is a days drive away fagot! How about you sponge off their system. or Mexico that place is cool
Jamespot24 1 month ago
Medicare for all 300 million people = debt over 100 trillion dollars
asebrookb 4 months ago
republicans keep blaming obama for everything bush got us in
JurassicGator 4 months ago
@JurassicGator we was in debt before bush you idiot. go do some fucking research you fucking socialist
4everUSNavy 4 months ago
I am a democrat,because republicans are selfish,cheap,and RETARDS! they honestly only care about themselfs by letting the rich not pay taxes and screwing everything up!!!! STOP VOTING FOR THEM! Bush put us in this war and now their blaming obama for not gettings us out of it!
JurassicGator 4 months ago
@JurassicGator You have it all wrong dude. Republicans aren't bad at all. THE REAL republicans. The fake neo conservatives (bill oriely, Rush limbaugh, and glen beck just a short from the media) Are what ruin the republican name and our country. Same shit with democrats. They are both very similar but the far left and far right wing morons are what ruin it for us.
tehatemachine 3 months ago
The republicans mission and only mission is to do as much harm to this country and its people no matter who it hurts, and from their last surge to power you can see that happening right now in 2011, and if it wasn’t for our president finally seeing that and specking up and out to us about it we wouldn’t have a chance, we must vote them out as many and as soon as we can, we must all of the good people left here of all races. And we must start yesterday!!
clarenceisgay 4 months ago
@clarenceisgay "The republicans mission and only mission is to do as much harm to this country and its people no matter who it hurts" Very little intell on that statement. Do you even know how the republican and democratic parties wherer formed? Do you even know what REAL republicans beleive in? Do you even know what a republic is? IF these cons where real republicans, Then they wouldn't go against the constitution, they would follow it, and promote free trade which we would prosper with.
tehatemachine 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
nope I don't want this
vandev97 4 months ago
Free healthcare... wanna bet your freedom on it?
StopSocialismUSA 4 months ago
Yeah. This is inaccurate
ERICx223 5 months ago
Hahahaha I have no idea about democrats and republicans. I just go with the flow people :)
Hausofcozy108 1 year ago 5
@Hausofcozy108 stupid bitch. if you like to go with the flow and remain completely ignorant, please don't vote.
MrSonia56 4 months ago
@Hausofcozy108 I find that sad.
flightstudios 3 months ago
@Hausofcozy108 And that's why Obama is President.
KnightKrawk 3 months ago
YEAHHHHHHHHHH
Textynn 2 years ago
Get used to Minimum wage since the corporatist GOP and corporatist DNC have been shipping our skilled high paying jobs overseas and then allowing liars to come here on H1B's to take even more of them working for near minimum wages. to corporatists, they want us ALL to be sub-minimum wage serfs competing with the serfs in China and Africa.
Leadingbrandz 2 years ago
@Leadingbrandz - part 2
They want it so that either you are screwing someone over, or you are getting screwed. They created and perpetuate this paradigm and punish those who resist. They want no middle class. As for those who think Communism is so evil, do you consider that the Communists have taken our jobs, support our national debt and make most of our stuff?
Leadingbrandz 2 years ago
@Leadingbrandz - part 3
Our corrupt economy is now totally dependent on communist slave labor and capital. Meanwhile our corporatist masters have this "Disease Care" trick up their sleeve. They will cap insurance companies profits at 15% - but will NOT cap health care spending. This means insurance companies can only increase profits by SPENDING MORE - Right now they make profits by not treating people and excluding people.
Leadingbrandz 2 years ago
@Leadingbrandz - part 4
When their profits are tied to Spending more, they WILL! And what that means is that premiums will go up like crazy ! How will working people afford that? There is NO cap on premiums!!! No cap on these disease care expenditures. The only cap is that insurance companies only get 15% of what they spend. Do you get it? They don't care about Cures, Healing, Prevention or Health. This is purely about Who will profit and who will pay. They will profit and WE will pay.
Leadingbrandz 2 years ago
Yes, I want this health care bill, I have always wanted a Politician to wipe my shitty ass. You guys are so full of it you don't even know the stars are not close to the earth. Matter of fact, you probably think the world is a large Flat Table.
Government and Everybody else is out to screw you and let you have the baby on your own. Depend on yourself and you will always be there.
smajdk 2 years ago
seriously, is it possible for you drop kick right wingers make a policy argument based on anything except that fact that you have toilet for a mouth??
peaceteam 2 years ago
You Sir, fail to do your homework, or if you did your homework, you are exposing a Marxist tendency. Health Care is not supposed to make us ill, and if you can read this bill and not get ill, your cancer has become terminal.
smajdk 2 years ago
Great videos. Too bad about twenty to thirty percent of the country is trying to out-douchebag their neighbor by by seeing how low they can go in the debate and on the other side, people are buying into any change is good.
We shouldn't have to settle.
vladh451 2 years ago
Sadly, Americans get the government they deserve. :/
wdgeo 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ron Paul 2012! This video sucks!
dimaniak 2 years ago
I LOVE IT!! LIBERY FOR ALL!!
BlueTunisia 2 years ago
ya we want medicare for all
All 26% of us
The other 74% say get the fuck out
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
typical that an ignorant right winger cannot make a policy argument without descending to obscenities. we will leave your comment up, just to demonstrate what a foul-minded cretin you are.
otherwise nobody here is talking about FORCING anyone to participate in a Medicare for All OPTION. if you don't want to participate, go for your existing corporate rip off.
peaceteam 2 years ago
LOL thats the democrats job.
I'm just speaking in terms you can understand.
or maybe not
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
So, the answer to Tyrannical Big Government Boondoggles is to extend one of the worst Tyrannical Big Government Boondoggle to all American Citizens (and Illegal Aliens)?
Brilliant.
VerbotenDingleberry 2 years ago
Dear Dingleberry,
Medicare for All was never intended to "answer Tyrannical BG Boondoggles"; it is intended to escape tyrannical for-profit healthcare deniers. Or rather, to give you the option to make such escape. If you like your insurance company ripping you off, nobody will stop you from paying their stockholders. If you can afford it.
DenverKirk 2 years ago
ROFLMAO.
Right, whatever...
VerbotenDingleberry 2 years ago
Who Pays for Medicare for All?
davidpark68 2 years ago
We all do, thats the idea...
muaddib2012 2 years ago
HR676 does have a solution for funding it - 3% increase in taxes for all those who work, 4% increase in payroll taxes for employers, and graduated increases in taxes for the top 10% of income earners.
I don't know about you, but paying to cover myself through insurance companies costs a lot more than 3%, or even 7% - through my work it never got lower than 20% of my income.
mexcurmudgeon 2 years ago
Medicare for all? No thanks, I don't want it. You can have it though if you want to pay for it. I don't want to be included in your medical ponzi scheme.
I'll just pay my doctor cash for services and buy a low premium catastrophic coverage plan. That way the free market forces of competition and value can drive innovation and prices rather than DC bureaucrats. It will also cut into the profits of large corporate insurance companies by people reducing their plan coverage and premiums.
jokertim777 2 years ago 8
Dear joke,
A "low premium" plan that you'll probably never collect on? Have you checked the escalation of premiums lately?
The only "innovation" these parasites do is to invent new ways to deny payments.
DenverKirk 2 years ago
>I'll just pay my doctor cash for services and buy a low >premium catastrophic coverage plan.
Gosh, that sounds great. I've looked into those plans. I could pay $500 a month for a plan with a $3000 deductible. Three itsy-bitsy problems with this:
1. I can't afford $500/month
2. I couldn't afford the deductible should I get sick.
3. The insurance company would weasel out of paying if I got really sick.
So, why pay into the big fat hairy scam?
mistergarth 2 years ago
mistergarth,
In a free market, each person has the ability to weigh the costs and benefits for themselves and make their own decision. Plan coverages and rates differ not only by employer and State, but by individual as well (age, history, etc.)
HSA Plans allow for tax free health care savings (I have one).
If you don't believe in private insurance, don't buy it and save your money to self-insure. You can always be treated for free at the emergency room if something bad happens.
jokertim777 2 years ago
Yeah, and guess who pays for those "free" E-room visits - you and me. And does your "something bad" include cancer? Do you think you could save enough money to "self insure" on minimum wage or anywhere close to it? If you care even a little bit about other people you will see that our current system is wrong.
muaddib2012 2 years ago 2
There are lots of things wrong with our healthcare system now, but giving everyone Medicare will just make things worse... not better.
Many hospitals and individual doctors do charity work (even with cancer patients) and I accept that I pay higher prices to help support those in need who cannot pay.
However, saving is not a function of how much you make. Minimum wage earners can save for medical expenses (I know, I did it).
Soon, our government may be too broke to help anyone. What then?
jokertim777 2 years ago
If you accept paying high prices to support those in need, then what do you have against a public plan? The current proposal will actually lower costs and reduce the deficit, And again, did you save enough on min. wage for chemo, or major surgery, or expensive medicines all while paying rent and possibly raising children? Bravo if you did that on $7.50 an hour.
muaddib2012 2 years ago
There is a big difference in providing critical care and a public option. Lower costs and reduce the deficit? You don't actually believe that, and neither do I.
I did SAVE on minimum wage, but I didn't STAY on minimum wage. You make it sound like people are forced to work for $7.50 their whole lives.
Most minimum wage earners are teens and seniors. Teens who will wait to have kids (until they are more financially secure), and seniors who already have Medicare. Teens also require less care.
jokertim777 2 years ago
Saving on minimum wage doesn't count if mom and dad are footing your bills.
monashaw 2 years ago
I agree, but what does that have to do with anything? I wasn't a teen when I worked for minimum wage and saved.
This discussion has been sidetracked from the main issue of the video. Unless you have a relevant point to make, I think I'll move on.
jokertim777 2 years ago
As a matter of fact, I do believe it will lower costs and reduce the deficit. To find out how, just change the channel from Fox once in a while. And yes, there are many people who live there whole lives making min. wage or close to it. Not everyone has the opportunity or the skills to advance, its a sad and simple fact. Additionally, the reason many of these people are in that situation is because they have serious illnesses or disabilities, which makes it difficult to get private insurance.
muaddib2012 2 years ago
First of all, I don't watch Fox News. Secondly, stop drinking the administration Kool-Aid and research our government's track record of estimating medical program costs.
I find it ridiculous that you want to point to a tiny sliver of our population and say that because that group can't afford Health Insurance, everyone should have Medicare. Its completely absurd. If that group is not currently covered by State services (they are in my State) then advocate covering them only.
jokertim777 2 years ago
Currently the plan doesn't force anyone to do anything, except possibly that you must have some form of insurance. Just because there aren't that many of them doesn't mean we can ignore them. I certainly don't agree with this admin. all the time, but I've felt we've needed universal healthcare long before now. Its too bad we won't get it, the Dems are much too weak to pass real reform. What I find ridiculous is that the richest nation in the world can't do what many other countries can do.
muaddib2012 2 years ago
How do you feel now that the health care reform bill has passed. I'm a Republican and believe it or not I'm willing to give Obama's health care a chance because I believe that health care is a social issue that needs to be addressed in this country.
cn012891pat 1 year ago
@cn012891pat Awesome man.
You should be an example to the other repubs. I'm a demo, but I don't care what party a president is in, so long as they make the right choices.
Trekiefreak777 4 months ago
@Trekiefreak777 That's a huge problem with this country. You shouldn't ALWAYS vote one party, that's stupid. Make the decision that YOU think is best. I think Obama is a pretty terribl president, but I can give him credit for repealing DADT. That's something that never would have happened under a conservative president, and I'm glad it has been repealed.
NothingSpecialMusic1 4 months ago
@jokertim777 SUre. Apart from the fact that paying taxes comes out cheaper then all the insurences and bills you have to pay.
gulbirk 5 months ago
@gulbirk,
Stealing is also cheaper than buying, but that doesn't make it good policy.
The government can't provide health care cheaper than the market can, it can only promise to do so... and then fail miserably when people realize all the unfunded liabilities that have been hidden from them. Population demographics have turned against the Ponzi scheme pyramid that has allowed people to be tricked into thinking this plan was working until now.
I want to opt out of the whole mess.
jokertim777 5 months ago
@jokertim777 They cant?
Oh ok, I never knew that non-profitt mas more expensive then profitt.
They CAN do it cheaper, because they CAN run it without any profitt. Any private hospital is owned by a private person, thus that person want profitt. So the only way that person can do that is to either increase costs or decrease what he gives the workers.
gulbirk 5 months ago 6
@gulbirk,
I wish the world was as simple as your shallow dogma implies it to be... sadly, it's not. You can wish for government health services to be cheaper by repeating your mantra (non profit), but that doesn't change the fact that government increases the costs of services in the real world.
Besides confusing government with actual private non profits organizations (which are beneficial), you lack a basic understanding of economic reality that prevents a meaningful discussion. Bye.
jokertim777 5 months ago
@jokertim777 You are the very definition of a retard. Where are health services cheapest? In Norway, or USA?
Its quite clear that the government doesnt push up the price of anything you fucktard, because they are the ones paying for it.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk ...or make it more efficient.
datott 3 months ago
@datott Which, when private people do it, in 100% of the cases is just a code word for giving workers worse labour rights, paying them less or making a worse deal to the people using the service. Besides, there isnt anything way to make it more efficent that the government cant do. And its not like private people can just magically turn down the price.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk yes, and all north koreans agree, the state is a much better employer than private enterprises. Private entrepreneurs can make things more effecient, that's where all our wealth comes from (for example: thats why we can write blogcomments on Youtube using our Laptops).
datott 3 months ago
@datott That is bullshit. Tell me, why did the market fail at providing people with wealth until the government stepped in?
Not once did I say we should nationalise our industry either you fucking idiot . The fact that you dont see a difference between public healthcare and nationalising industry proves my point. You are a moron. On a side note though, we the Norwegians paid less for electricity when the state controlled it. No, all companies just try to make it profit from it.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk I used to be a leftist like you at your age. As you grow up you will see that wealth does not come from distribution of capital. Wealth comes from creation. The government can never be better at creating stuff than driven individuals doing what they do best.
Chanting bad words at somebody on youtube won't change that fact, it will only make you look desperate.
datott 3 months ago
@datott Ok, so tell me then why the market failed at creation wealth when it had all the time from the industrial revolution and all the way up until almost modern times?
Why did government have to step in to ensure that workers werent being exploited for the sake of profit. You are dead wrong. The UN development index clearly illustrates that the distribution of wealth is why we have wealth at all.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk Why do you believe that the market have failed at creating wealth? The wealth creation is huge! Our standard of living have risen astronomically since the first market reforms were introduced in England 300 years ago.
Thanks to market reforms (individuals who create wealth gets to keep it) countries (for example China) are moving away from poverty to wealth. Thanks to globalization and free trade we have soon erased poverty and hunger. Why do you persume this is not happening?
datott 3 months ago
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montanamxc 3 months ago
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montanamxc 3 months ago
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@datott It's rather about education but most importantly - intelligence. People who say that when other guy sets up a company and wants to make a profit out of it is a bad guy are this same people who wants get MORE money for they labour. So an employeer should be exploited in order to increase the Profit for workers for their labour. Why don't those good social people work for free or just asking for board and accomodation? That would be very much non-profit thus all right , wouldn't it?
montanamxc 3 months ago
@montanamxc Very good point. It's true. They should offer to work for free, just like they want the business owners to do.
datott 3 months ago
@gulbirk Don't you know anything about economics. The fact of the manner is that for a private business to succeed they need to provide 1. a better service and 2, they need to provide it at a reasonable price. In most cases private business is actually better then that of public business. They tend to run more efficiently. Yes they do have to make profits unlike that of the public sector, but they have to compete for their business. Ex: University of Chicago Hospital or a public hospital. QOS
Maggs009 3 months ago
@Maggs009 Well, maybe because ALL the wealth you have have literally nothing to do with the market, if you look at it alone. The reason you have any wealth what so ever is because of unions and the government. If you dont believe me, how about going back to 12 hour days for 5 times as little as a minimum wage? The only reason children can get anywhere, is because of social justice, has nothing to do with the markets. General wealth came social justice.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk PART 2: If private is so much better, why is it that the best countries at healthcare have PUBLIC health care services?
And why is it that when Norways electrical companies went from being state owned to privatised the cost was actually increased? The market turned the price up. I know why, because thats basic math. One is private and ran for profit, and the other is state owned and NON Profit.
gulbirk 3 months ago
@gulbirk Or increase efficiency, or increase product quality. Those are arguably the two most important aspects, and the government has no incentive to do either of those things, which is why removing the profit incentive even further (it's already been heavily distorted) would almost certainly increase healthcare costs and decrease quality.
rockon6191 2 months ago
@rockon6191 What utter nonsense. The government run things non profit, which is clearly cheapest. Are pro capitalists like yourselve ripped from compassion for other people?
It seems as your entire world view is saying that the only reason to do good stuff is to make money. Maybe you dont have the incentive to become better, the rest of us does. I only have one word in a response to that entire statement. CERN
gulbirk 2 months ago
@gulbirk Actually, I sincerely believe many people are compassionate and will take care of others given the opportunity. That's why I don't think we need the government to force them to. We used to have plenty of charity hospitals, until regulations, the crowding effect, and rising costs due to market distortion caused many to close. As for your statement that non profit is always the cheapest: gov institutions like the post office and public education have already proven that isn't true.
rockon6191 2 months ago
@rockon6191 Yeah, because when a profit company takes over they can lower the expenses. Which normally means pay people worse, or provide less labor rights. Thats the only way they ever make it cheaper. And yes, you are ripped from compassion. Because you could say things like ""Government dont care about making the schools more efficient which private people will"". Which is the same as saying no one cares about children, they only care about profit.
gulbirk 2 months ago
@rockon6191 Yeah, because when a profit company takes over they can lower the expenses. Which normally means pay people worse, or provide less labor rights. Thats the only way they ever make it cheaper. And yes, you are ripped from compassion. Because you could say things like ""Government dont care about making the schools more efficient which private people will"". Which is the same as saying no one cares about children, they only care about profit.
gulbirk 2 months ago
@gulbirk That was a total non-sequitor. I said government has no incentive to be efficient, because they have a virtually unlimited pool of money they can draw from, in a way creating a moral hazard. Even if they genuinely care about student welfare, the proper efficiency incentives are removed. A private company can say "I want to provide the best education to children at the most affordable cost." I don't see how that means they only care about profit.
rockon6191 2 months ago
@gulbirk And even if a private entity does only care about profit, no one can force you to work there or spend your money there. So either they provide an efficient model that creates a good product and thus make you want to spend your money there, or you don't spend your money there and they fail. The government is the only entity that can legally remove choice from the equation. Even if you choose not to use their services, you still have to pay for them (taxes).
rockon6191 2 months ago
@jokertim777
Very elaborate parody right there. I assume you're being satirical, which, if true, means you've put a good deal of effort into making that seem serious.
Nice work.
nafaidni 3 months ago
@nafaidni,
Welcome to the conversation. Better late than never, I suppose. Did you have anything to offer besides sarcastic remarks?
Please, if you can make a case for why the government should provide "free" health care for everyone, I'd like to hear it.
jokertim777 3 months ago
@jokertim777
Oh. You're serious? I thought you were being satirical for sure when you said that competition will bring down insurance coverage to nothing.
Not everyone can afford health care. But it is something that everyone should have a right to, just as they have rights to protection from invasion, fires, starvation, and roads. It's bad for society to have several people being bankrupted by health costs. This could be avoided if everyone were insured by one insurer and given equal rate.
nafaidni 3 months ago
@nafaidni,
You prefer to continue the charade that you thought I was joking. Okay.
Please don't say I claimed that "competition will bring down insurance coverage to nothing." You know I did no such thing.
People have a right to protect themselves from home invasion by owning a firearm (police are NOT required to save you). Fire protection is to protect ME from YOUR negligence. Starvation and Roads? Please, that's just ridiculous.
Equal rates are a terrible idea, ask me why.
jokertim777 3 months ago
@jokertim777
Unfortunately, we don't live in a world of isolated tribes. You may think that we can survive as cavemen who just succeeds on our own intelligence and etc. The fact is, the success of everyone is dependent on society. Without society, your education, your trade (unless you're a farmer), and your assets would be largely useless.
If you want to live in an I Me Mine society, exile yourself to the forest. But as long as you benefit from society, you must pay your favors to it.
nafaidni 3 months ago
@nafaidni,
Attempting to assign silly positions to me and then arguing against them is an incredibly poor excuse for a discussion. You comments betray an irrational hostility towards people who don't share your view. Intolerant much?
Tell me that's not all you've got? Hostility and straw men?
Not only are you unconvincing to any people skeptical to your view, you are also make those sympathetic to it embarrassed by your actions. Let that sink in for a while, and then get back to me.
jokertim777 3 months ago
@jokertim777
Hostility isn't quite the word for it. But arguing with people who believe selfishness is the solution to everything can only be achieved by debasing their false notions that people are entirely responsible for their successes.
And what else do you argue with? Basically, you don't think the police should be responsible for rescuing you from home invasions. That's completely selfish and radical. Likewise is allowing people to starve on the roads or burn in their homes.
nafaidni 3 months ago
@jokertim777
And unfortunately, I don't tolerate arguments that state that society itself should not exist. And that's what you're arguing, by saying the police (and supposedly military) should not exist; that people should just get guns and board themselves into their homes for protection. You also pretend like civilization would work fine without public roads or other utilities.
Sadly, your supposed moral outcry against me doesn't budge me. What I said describes you, you just don't know it.
nafaidni 3 months ago
@nafaidni,
Thank you. Your crazy ramblings have made my point far better than I ever could.
But please, don't quit now... you're on a roll. And I could use a good laugh. Tell me all about myself, since you know me so well. I'll just sit back and enjoy the show.
jokertim777 3 months ago
@jokertim777
Ah the classical conservative holier-than-art-thou rage quit. It never fails to entertain me! Despite the fact that I've basically made a template for it...
1: Argue a moot point or radical idea. Get called out for it.
2: Defend yourself with even more radical idea or stupider point. Get called out for it.
3: Back into corner and deny allegations. Get pressed further.
4: Give up and finish with, "Thank you for proving..." or "You dumb liberals never learn" or etc. Cease arguing.
nafaidni 3 months ago
@nafaidni,
Calmer now?
Template...that's exactly what you do, isn't it? Your contacts in life fit neatly into some flowchart or template that you already have in your head. That's why you impute motives and opinions to me that I don't hold and have never stated. You don't discuss ideas and trade information... you revert to a pre-programed, robotic dictation. You treat separate individuals as one monolithic group.
You've even been forced to rationalize why people don't respond well to you.
jokertim777 3 months ago
@jokertim777
There is no medical "ponzi scheme" btw. You pay money into a general health care fund; if you get sick, money from that fund gets used for you and you might not pay as much as if you didn't have that insurance. If you don't it might waste your money.
This is what insurance basically is. The only difference is that single-payer insurance (one large public insurance) is nonprofit and all costs go into health care, thus reducing costs. It works in most countries, why not the US?
nafaidni 3 months ago
right to roads btw, not protection therefrom...
nafaidni 3 months ago
Great video, thanks! Medicare Part E now! E for Everyone! But we'll be lucky to ever get it since this country has been lax, and dumbed down so badly by the corporate controlled media, and the resultant low information voters have elected a congress which is a wholly owned subsidiary of trans-national corporations who have no allegiance to America. In short, it has been heading down the road to fascism since the 80's. Now we're paying the price for not paying attention.
arcturus33333 2 years ago
So Your answer to Fascism is Socialism?
davidpark68 2 years ago
The medicare for all is about taking choice out of the patient's hands.
It's about an enforced medical program that will NOT be in favor of anyone but big pharma and its' minions. If you value your health at all do not leave it up to those who serve lobbyists and political agendas. Freedom of choice is what we need.
ancestralblue 2 years ago
Well stated, simple and true :)
MaryandRose11 2 years ago
Dear neanderthalblue--
Medicare gives you choice of providers and M for All would give you total choice, because providers would either accept the M payment schedule or quit the profession. Very few would quit because M would still pay a very good living--and probably pay off most or all of their academic debt.
The choice then resides in the popular political will, instead of restricted by private profit motives. That's why, contrary to what you say, big pharma hates M for All.
DenverKirk 2 years ago
Isn't that what the bullies always do? Resort to name calling to dominate a conversation and to try to make themselves look superior. What's in the health care bill indicates medical communism, pure and simple. No alternative healthcare allowed and all who refuse will be documented as "non compliant." Take big pharma poisons or else. This is tied in with Codex Alimentarius and the control of all vitamins, minerals and herbs. Not interested.
ancestralblue 2 years ago
You're right, name-calling should be off the table. Mine was just a funny way to call attention to your handle, apparently very retro (as opposed to progressive).
Yes, M for All is communistic. And so much the better!
But nobody would force you to take any of pharma's products.
DenverKirk 2 years ago
Yes... and communism is about existence at the whim of the state. Too bad you can't ask people in China or Myanmar about that. In those countries there is no freedom of speech. But hell, in China they do benefit some by harvesting organs from those who speak out, like Falun Gong practitioners. Communism is about pure oppression and nothing more. We don't need that here.
ancestralblue 2 years ago
Uh, Myanmar is not communist. China is ruled by a party that calls itself Communist (capital "c"). There has never been a true communism (small "c"). Study some.
DenverKirk 2 years ago
Military huntas and communism embrace the same principle of existence at the whim of the state. In either human rights have no place. And it's obvious that the poltical factions in this country are making the move to take us there. But...contrary to what they think they will fail. Climategate is the first step in a series of spiralling failures. Keep watching...it's all going to get very interesting as the expose what they're about.
ancestralblue 2 years ago
>Freedom of choice is what we need.
I agree with that part. Now, how does having the option to choose a govt-run plan reduce your freedom to choose? Nobody is even considering the possibility of denying you your sacred right to help insurance company CEOs buy more yachts and mansions.
mistergarth 2 years ago 2
Because a Government Run Option will be subsidized by tax dollars & therefore become a monopoly.
davidpark68 2 years ago