@novelsandrecords I think its the rape gangs, the petrol bombs, the FGM, and the beheadings, and stuff like 9-11, that Ayaan has problems with. I can see her point, to be candid. Can't you? If you are honest?
The problem Islam has is that its Holy texts ARE interpreted as condoning violent Jihad and the domination and degradation of non-Muslims, the obliteration of ALL other religions as well as the killing of dissenters and apostates. It only takes a TINY minority to heed this call and EVERYONE lives in fear. THIS is the truth of Islam; Muslims themselves are tyrannized and know the risks and pointlessness of criticizing Islam and its teachings. Islam is a mafia organisation and always will be.
Isn't it interesting that the FIRST command to Mohammed was to 'READ'. Well, in fact he did anything BUT read. No, he 'RECITED'. In other words he disobeyed the very first instruction he was given. He did not 'read' he 'dictated' and as far as we know he NEVER read anything.
Khomeini's first book was Kashf al-Asrar, aka Secrets Unveiled, was published in 1942 "Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world" Is this Koranic? Well yes. See my next comment
Qu’ran 9:38 O you who have believed, what is [the matter] with you that, when you are told to go forth in the cause of Allah , you adhere heavily to the earth? Are you satisfied with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But what is the enjoyment of worldly life compared to the Hereafter except a [very] little.
9:39 If you do not go forth, He will punish you with a painful punishment and will replace you with another people
If Islam was so peaceful, how come 3 out of the 4 new leaders of Islam immediately after Mohammed's death were MURDERED? How come Islam has fractured into incompatible sects that regard eachother as heretical? How come Mohammed only managed to get a few hundred followers during 10 years of preaching, yet when he became a military leader, racketeer and slaver, THEN his 'religion' took off.
So if the Koranic text can be interpreted in an infinite variety of ways and each word can have multiple meanings, then CLEARLY the Koran can mean WHATEVER you want. So, the Muslim claim that it is the 'inimitable word of Allah' is ABSURD - to MANY Islamic scholars it means kill the infidel, rape your slaves, killing in the name of Allah GUARANTEES a place in an eternal brothel. Or be a 'better Muslim' ie the above applies or can be softened to 'fight' means 'argue'. Yeah, right.
The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.- Francois Gautier (French Writer and Journalist)
@ritchloui What is your evidence for what you say? Besides, even if what you say is accurate, it makes no difference: Islam, considered as a religion in and of itself, does not condone massacre. If you look at the Qur'an there are very specific and concrete rules laid down for any violent struggle; and if these guidelines are not followed it is hardly Islamic. Certainly, you have to make a distinction between Islam and Muslims.
@bayreuth79 The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.- Francois Gautier (French Writer and Journalist)
Will Durrant (US historian) “The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture an dpeace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within”
@ritchloui The Muslim conquerers of India were hardly barbarians! In fact, the Mogul dynsty represents one of the great flourishings of art, culture and religion in the Indian Subcontinent. William Dalrymple has written extensively about the richness of the Mogul (that is, Muslim) rule of India; and his assessment is remarkably positive. The Moguls were also a very tolerant civilization, especially towards non-muslims.
@bayreuth79 There were indeed some 'enlightened' Mogul Emperors of India who learned from the Indian civilisation and treasured it. However, as is usual with Islam the enlightened thinkers and lovers of art and learning are eclipsed by the ignorant fundamentalists who despise culture and prefer massacres and obliteration. This dreadful fact is something that ALL people have to face. Islam alone REFUSES to face its ugly underbelly. It CANNOT learn but would rather idealize itself uncritically.
@bayreuth79 Afghanistan was once a hugely wealthy Buddhist nation on the great silk route. Since its conquest by Islam it has had ALL its wealth disappear and it has been a desolate, destitute backwater run by squabbling warlords and tribal rivalries. This has been the fate of Islamic Africa; destitution and endless wars. This is the direction of the Middle East; life governed by banditry, violence and tyranny. Islam is incompatible with civilisation, it mandates violence, polygamy and contempt.
@ritchloui Ok, so please explain why Islam produced one of the greatest civilizations the world has ever known with some of the finest architecture (think Taj Mahal, Dome on the Rock, Alhambra, etc) and art (think Persian carpets, etc) and science produced up until the decline of Islamic civilization after 1492?
@bayreuth79 Nomadic Arab militias did not have architecture, stone masons, engineers, literature, science or mathematics. Those were the achievements of ALREADY advanced civilisations. The fact that Islam adopted for itself the architecture of other peoples, and as usual plagiarised (does not acknowledge the source), is like the thief who wears the finery of its victims. The 'Islamic' architecture did not originate from Arabia or from Islam. Nomads DIDN'T HAVE architecture. OBVIOUSLY!
If Islam encourages people to 'seek knowledge' isn't it strange that the Middle East, once the seat of great civilisations has been unable to produce a scientist, mathematician of philosopher of note for 1,000 years. Islam wears the finery of its victims as a serial killer plays with his trophies. Nomadic Arabs did not have architecture, stone masons, literature, engineering; NO these were the achievements of ALREADY advanced civilisations. Now reduced to tyranny and idiocy BY Islam.
@ritchloui Islam did produce one of the greatest civilizations in human history, so you shouldn't leave that out of the equation. Baghdad and Cordoba (in Al-Andalus, Muslim Spain) were the two greatest cities in the world until the Ghengis Khan destroyed Baghdad and Catholic Spain conquered the Moors. Let us not forget that the so-called muslim world was colonized by the Western powers, so we can hardly expect great things from them
@bayreuth79 NO, the fact that nomadic Arabs conquered ALREADY advanced civilisations does not mean their achievements are owed to Islam. No mention of who had cherished and studied the Ancient Greek, Indian and Persian texts for 1,000 years BEFORE Islam. No mention of WHO translated that work into Arabic. No mention of the fact that the font of that wisdom was eventually stemmed and silenced 1,000 years ago.
@ritchloui The point is that the muslims clearly prized the intellectual achievements of the Greeks otherwise they wouldn't have been interested in asking Syrian monks to translate the texts into Arabic; but you are also failing to realize that the Muslims (Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, Ibn al-Haythum, and many others) actually expanded upon the Greek inheritance. In other words, they contributed to the advancement of human kind; and to deny that is an injustice.
@bayreuth79 Again, I have to disagree. Muslims, by definition, are committed to fairy tales and dogma. Slapping an Arab name on someone does not make them a 'believing Muslim'. The great thinkers of yesteryear (most of whom were anything but Arab) HAD to be careful of what they said of Islam, though some did write of their contempt for it. As usual, Islamic propaganda claims the achievements that have NOTHING to do with the Koran. The MAIN contribution was that ADVANCED peoples shared Arabic.
@bayreuth79 Again, you make wild claims; the Western powers did not 'colonize' the Muslim world. The demise of the Ottoman Empire was NOT a matter of colonization but its defeat in a war. Had the West 'colonised' the Muslim lands then perhaps things might have turned out differently. Who knows. But we DO know that Muslim Arabs have been brought up with a supremacist separatist ideology and their once great promise has UTTERLY disappeared BECAUSE of Islam.
@ritchloui There is no historian I know of who would deny that the Muslim lands were colonized by the West. Historians these days are talking about "Post-Colonial trauma" in the muslim world, so clearly you are mistaken. Look at all the dictators in the so-called muslim world- who put them in power? For the most part, the west! The Shah in Iran (before Khomeini) was a US/UK backed ruler; Saddam Hossein; Mubarak; Gaddafi, etc. The mess in the Muslim world is largely a Western mess.
@bayreuth79 How much do you know of what it was like under the Ottoman Empire? What do you know of the massacres? What do you know AT ALL? The Europeans were only involved in the Middle East for less than 80 years. Of course the Muslims blame everyone and everything except their own ideology which forbids criticism of it. The Muslims CANNOT learn from their mistakes because the aren't even informed about them. No apology for 1,400 years slaving. No apology for the genocides. Just propaganda.
@bayreuth79 The Ottoman Empire was extant until 1928. It was in existence for about 800 years, during which time it specialised in torture, mutilation, and slavery.
So when did the West actually have time to 'colonise' it. Mainly, the West has been restisting conquest from it. This resistance has gone on for hundreds of years. That's not 'colonising.' That's fighting back.
Islam does not like that, though, does it? Bullies hate it when they get hit back. Poor Islam.
This jerk begins to reveal his true colors at around 36:45. He used to hate. Now he finds "peaceful" and "rational" ways to justify his beggarly allegiance to an already bankrupt faith. Judge Islam by its nonsense. Did Muhammad have a book dictated to him by an "Angel" called Gabriel? Did he fly off on a horse (Buraq) or is that also nonsense? JUST FUCKING BE HONEST. It's obviously nonsense. And it will kill you to defend its place in your face.
Islam has produced a tremendous amount of violence and death. I'm not looking to compare religions here. I'm just stating a fact. Christians, and Muslims are statistically INCREDIBLY violent. That's just a fact. All pop religions are nonsense. Judaism, Christianity, Islam.... they make wild supernatural claims that are not true. So.... just fuck them all. We're all violent apes. territorial. sexually jealous. greedy. disgusting. Am I wrong?
@capturedpilot The Constitution of the United States: the sacred text of flag worshippers and other irrationalists. I admire the Constitution up to a point (it is, after all, the product of Jefferson's immersion in the philosophy of John Locke, etc) but the degree of reverence that Americans have for it is out of all proportion to its actual value as a document.
By the way, most Muslims, throughout the world, can't even read. They are not the wise, 'questioning' philosophers that this silly girl is trying to make them out to be.
@capturedpilot You claim that most muslims can't read. That might be true for all I know; but how do you know? And even if it were true do you really expect us to believe that that is Islam's fault? The West colonized the "Muslim world" and as a consequence kept the indigenous population in a condition of cultural alienation (including education), so you can blame the West for that problem. Islam produced one of the greatest Civilizations in world history, so don't be patronizing
The Muslim bimbo is a complete stooge: if you believe this bimbo, think about this . . .
The Muslim Brotherhood, financed by Saudi, spends billions on PR; part of this PR is the creation of characters-for-public-consumption, like little Miss Butter Wouldn't Melt here. It's an old old trick: give the enemy a friendly (pretty?) face, to get them to drop their guard.
Islam wants to destroy the West. That's the truth.
@capturedpilot What an absurd statement! Of course the Muslim Brotherhood has nothing whatsoever to do Zeba Khan (whom you kindly referred to as "the muslim bimbo"). The Muslim Brotherhood are an extremist organization, but Zeba Kahn articulates an understanding of Islam which is certainly not extremist (far from it). In fact, she is openly against the MB. Furthermore, the MB wouldn't even consider her to be a muslim given that she doesn't wear the veil- hardly a view of Islam they espouse!
that majid guy is tossing and turning on his views because he doesn't know the truth from the myth. he really is just blabbering away not acknowledging any real issues at hand..
What I do not understand how muslims can believe that Muhammad (the Perfect Man) could do things that they now say to be evil, such as sleeping with a nine year old? If he was, as they claim, morally perfect, how could he act immorally? Modern muslims are more moral than Muhammad himself? What about revelation?
@capturedpilot From your comments I understand that you are an irrational Islamophobe who has scarely read a single book on the subject of Islam. I, however, have attended lectures at Cambridge University and read countless books on the subject of Islam- its history, its legal, theological, and mystical thought, its modern internal problems, etc- but have you? You can be as sarcastic as you like; what counts is knowledge and a decent arguments- none of which you possess.
@bayreuth79 Khomeini's first book was Kashf al-Asrar, aka Secrets Unveiled, was published in 1942 Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world". Presumably an Ayatollah has no idea about Islam either.
Ayatollah Khomeini Kashf al-Asrar, aka Secrets Unveiled, 1942 But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world ... Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Ayatollah Khomeini
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Hadith Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol. 9:57. Most Muslims have NO IDEA about the fundamentals of Islam. Those that enjoy relative privilege take NO INTEREST in the hell that Islam visits upon those who have no voice; the slaves, the women behind the veil, the mutilated, the hidden. Look at the 100% Muslim countries to get an idea of what happens when Muslims have NO other influences than Islam. MADHOUSES.
@ritchloui Your analysis is all too simplistic. There are no Muslim countries any longer. When I look at the so-called Muslim world I cannot find a single country that faithfully implements the Shari'ah. Saudi Arabia is a good example of what I mean. This is an apparently Shari'ah dominated society, but its not really. It is a Wahhabi dominated society; and there is a difference between the two.
The Ottoman Empire didn't execute apostates; and I can't think of any country that does.
@bayreuth79 Qu’ran 9:38 O you who have believed, what is [the matter] with you that, when you are told to go forth in the cause of Allah , you adhere heavily to the earth? Are you satisfied with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But what is the enjoyment of worldly life compared to the Hereafter except a [very] little.
I am tired of Muslims pretending that there is a 'real' Islam and what we actually see in Islamic States is not 'really' Islam.
@ritchloui Perhaps you dislike it because it challenges your simple and simplistic understanding of something that is much more complicated- and much more interesting. Of course you can quote verses from the Qur'an out of context and expect us to believe that this quote somehow proves what you are saying. No! It doesn't represent the normative understanding of the Qur'an. Consult the great Tafsirs (Commentaries) and you might be surprised.
@bayreuth79 The fact is that in 1,400 years Islam has achieved practically nothing. It has disabled the once great civilisations of the Middle East, and worse, has tried to claim for itself the achievements of those civilisations when in actuality Islam brought it all to an end 1,000 years ago. I am SICK of Islamic apologists who REFUSE to face the evidence that wherever Islam has taken root eventually all is reduced to barbarity. Islam cannot learn if it cannot face its own history.
@bayreuth79 By definition, a quote is 'out of context.' How else can one quote a quote? Meanwhile, words are words. If the Koran says "kill" non-believers, then that is what the Koran says. And the Koran does indeed say "kill." It says "kill" most of all. When it's not saying rape or child abuse or animal fucking. The whole 'context' of the Koran is abuse.
So, stop your deception and your pathetic academic pretensions. Get off it, bro.
@capturedpilot The interesting thing about 'context' is that in fact the context reveals that the Koran is a great deal more depraved than we know. Check out watch?v=XN-g5Cq4JRM when an Arab speaker gives the context of Q9:49 when a man approaches Mohammed asking not to be tested by going on a bandit raid. The context is that he is not afraid of dying but does not like the perverse temptations Mohammed was giving his men, to capture and rape 'blonde' women.
@ritchloui Islam was created around rape. The promise of rape with impunity is the evil energy of Islam, right from the beginning and right up until today.
For example, the MB gains many followers in Manchester and Leeds because those young Muslim guys are told it's okay (in fact, a duty) to rape white teenage girls and force them into prostitution, in 'work houses.' The British police do nothing, of course. They don't want to offend Islam.
@capturedpilot The fight back has already begun, with more and more people actually doing their research about Islam. The gloves are off and a far more critical appraisal is underway. I suspect that over the past 150 years Europeans had lost their fear of Islam and begun to buy into its self-adulation and propaganda. This of course has been unwise. 10 years ago most Europeans and Americans had NO IDEA at all about Islam. The whitewash will wear very thin as more historians revisit the issue.
@bayreuth79 Tell me, if Islam 'encourages learning' let us for a moment compare the achievements of the British Empire with the Ottoman Empire. No contest. Britain wipes the floor with the Ottomans on EVERY front. The Ottomans contributed NOTHING at all to the modern world, yet it governed ALL of the once MOST advanced peoples on earth. THAT is Islam's achievement; breaking the human spirit.
@ritchloui That is a very weak comparison. The Ottoman Empire had its heyday in the late medieval period, whereas the British Empire (which, let us not forget, colonized places such as India with violence and massacres) is a later phenomena, so of course the British Empire is going to contribute more to the modern world!
Muslims transmitted Greek learning to the West. Muslims made important scientific and mathematical advances. Muslim medical texts were used in the West until the 1700s, etc.
@bayreuth79 Again, you seem to be utterly unable to see the obvious. The Ottoman Empire began LONG before the British Empire and ended at about the same time. The fact that the Ottomans achieved so little, DESPITE governing peoples who had traditionally been the MOST ADVANCED says something about the Ottomans. While Europe was under the Roman Church, it was grizzly. ONLY when the RCC had lost its iron grip did things change in Europe.
@bayreuth79 Ah, now tell me, which 'massacres' by the British in India are you talking about? I don't want you to say a 'few hundred' equals a massacre, go ahead and give me numbers even in actual battles! You see, normally a massacre means hundreds of thousands, you know, mountains of skulls that some of the Moguls were very keen on building.
@ritchloui Khomeini was a Shi'a (Shi'as comprise less that 10% of the muslims worldwide) and as such his views are hardly representative of Islam as a whole. If you think about to the Rushdie Affair in 1989, Khomeini's fatwa ordering the death of Salman Rushdie was rejected by the majority of muslims, including the most important centre for Islamic learning: Al-Azhar University (Cairo). Khomeini is not representative of Islam.
1.38.20 Moderates "Have refused to turn in the extremists" there you go, says it all really. Muslims put other muslims before non muslims precisely because it is a religious command from a totalitarian supervisor.
I wish Hitch could have been on this with Ayaan. However the debate goes on.
The issue here is the outcome of influence.
Take a human brain, invest it with beliefs. Examine the resulting behaviours. Judge the moral value of the outcomes of those behaviours.
Of course, sometimes the outcome will be bad (slavery is OK) or good (education is worthwhile). With Islam etc its clearly negative. Why ? because it disregards the value of the human for the totalitarian which is inerrant. The scales tip.
she is such an opportunist woman. She lied to get to Netherlands, became the mouth piece for politicians who want to offend and insult islam and remain politically correct. She loves the attention she is getting and using it for own benefit.
obviously this girl who claims to represent that notion that has no clue whatsoever. Among many trivialities she said was that she "Prayed in a synagogue every day" which is quite stupid.
Let us see what happens to here if she says what she is saying here in Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic country. By all means she would be beheaded.
Muslims are in general peaceful as long they live as minorities. Once they have control, " Islam inside them" will turn them into beasts and terrorists.
I'm very happy to find this video. This is very educational.
ClaudioBuenaventura 2 days ago
wow, i did not expect that result!
beefdlo 1 week ago
Honestly, Ayaan really is very ignorant about Islam.
the main tenants of Islam are:
Testimony: saying there is only one god
Prayer
Zakat: alms-giving (charity)
Fasting
Hajj: Making the pilgrimage to mecca, if you are able, once in your lifetime
so where's the violence in this? how are these acts not peaceful?
novelsandrecords 2 weeks ago
@novelsandrecords
what if if refuse to believe in your cock sucking allah?
what if i refuse to pay booty money that you call zakat?
going to mecca and kissing the pagan black stone? LOL
muhammad the pedophile is a terrorist and lunatic...u should know that better!
allahlovesmycock3 1 week ago
@novelsandrecords I think its the rape gangs, the petrol bombs, the FGM, and the beheadings, and stuff like 9-11, that Ayaan has problems with. I can see her point, to be candid. Can't you? If you are honest?
capturedpilot 1 week ago
The problem Islam has is that its Holy texts ARE interpreted as condoning violent Jihad and the domination and degradation of non-Muslims, the obliteration of ALL other religions as well as the killing of dissenters and apostates. It only takes a TINY minority to heed this call and EVERYONE lives in fear. THIS is the truth of Islam; Muslims themselves are tyrannized and know the risks and pointlessness of criticizing Islam and its teachings. Islam is a mafia organisation and always will be.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui Way to go, bro! Fully with you!
capturedpilot 1 week ago
Isn't it interesting that the FIRST command to Mohammed was to 'READ'. Well, in fact he did anything BUT read. No, he 'RECITED'. In other words he disobeyed the very first instruction he was given. He did not 'read' he 'dictated' and as far as we know he NEVER read anything.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
Khomeini's first book was Kashf al-Asrar, aka Secrets Unveiled, was published in 1942 "Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world" Is this Koranic? Well yes. See my next comment
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
Qu’ran 9:38 O you who have believed, what is [the matter] with you that, when you are told to go forth in the cause of Allah , you adhere heavily to the earth? Are you satisfied with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But what is the enjoyment of worldly life compared to the Hereafter except a [very] little.
9:39 If you do not go forth, He will punish you with a painful punishment and will replace you with another people
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
If Islam was so peaceful, how come 3 out of the 4 new leaders of Islam immediately after Mohammed's death were MURDERED? How come Islam has fractured into incompatible sects that regard eachother as heretical? How come Mohammed only managed to get a few hundred followers during 10 years of preaching, yet when he became a military leader, racketeer and slaver, THEN his 'religion' took off.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
So if the Koranic text can be interpreted in an infinite variety of ways and each word can have multiple meanings, then CLEARLY the Koran can mean WHATEVER you want. So, the Muslim claim that it is the 'inimitable word of Allah' is ABSURD - to MANY Islamic scholars it means kill the infidel, rape your slaves, killing in the name of Allah GUARANTEES a place in an eternal brothel. Or be a 'better Muslim' ie the above applies or can be softened to 'fight' means 'argue'. Yeah, right.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.- Francois Gautier (French Writer and Journalist)
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui What is your evidence for what you say? Besides, even if what you say is accurate, it makes no difference: Islam, considered as a religion in and of itself, does not condone massacre. If you look at the Qur'an there are very specific and concrete rules laid down for any violent struggle; and if these guidelines are not followed it is hardly Islamic. Certainly, you have to make a distinction between Islam and Muslims.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
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@bayreuth79 The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.- Francois Gautier (French Writer and Journalist)
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
Will Durrant (US historian) “The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture an dpeace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within”
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui The Muslim conquerers of India were hardly barbarians! In fact, the Mogul dynsty represents one of the great flourishings of art, culture and religion in the Indian Subcontinent. William Dalrymple has written extensively about the richness of the Mogul (that is, Muslim) rule of India; and his assessment is remarkably positive. The Moguls were also a very tolerant civilization, especially towards non-muslims.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 There were indeed some 'enlightened' Mogul Emperors of India who learned from the Indian civilisation and treasured it. However, as is usual with Islam the enlightened thinkers and lovers of art and learning are eclipsed by the ignorant fundamentalists who despise culture and prefer massacres and obliteration. This dreadful fact is something that ALL people have to face. Islam alone REFUSES to face its ugly underbelly. It CANNOT learn but would rather idealize itself uncritically.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Afghanistan was once a hugely wealthy Buddhist nation on the great silk route. Since its conquest by Islam it has had ALL its wealth disappear and it has been a desolate, destitute backwater run by squabbling warlords and tribal rivalries. This has been the fate of Islamic Africa; destitution and endless wars. This is the direction of the Middle East; life governed by banditry, violence and tyranny. Islam is incompatible with civilisation, it mandates violence, polygamy and contempt.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui Ok, so please explain why Islam produced one of the greatest civilizations the world has ever known with some of the finest architecture (think Taj Mahal, Dome on the Rock, Alhambra, etc) and art (think Persian carpets, etc) and science produced up until the decline of Islamic civilization after 1492?
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Nomadic Arab militias did not have architecture, stone masons, engineers, literature, science or mathematics. Those were the achievements of ALREADY advanced civilisations. The fact that Islam adopted for itself the architecture of other peoples, and as usual plagiarised (does not acknowledge the source), is like the thief who wears the finery of its victims. The 'Islamic' architecture did not originate from Arabia or from Islam. Nomads DIDN'T HAVE architecture. OBVIOUSLY!
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
If Islam encourages people to 'seek knowledge' isn't it strange that the Middle East, once the seat of great civilisations has been unable to produce a scientist, mathematician of philosopher of note for 1,000 years. Islam wears the finery of its victims as a serial killer plays with his trophies. Nomadic Arabs did not have architecture, stone masons, literature, engineering; NO these were the achievements of ALREADY advanced civilisations. Now reduced to tyranny and idiocy BY Islam.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui Islam did produce one of the greatest civilizations in human history, so you shouldn't leave that out of the equation. Baghdad and Cordoba (in Al-Andalus, Muslim Spain) were the two greatest cities in the world until the Ghengis Khan destroyed Baghdad and Catholic Spain conquered the Moors. Let us not forget that the so-called muslim world was colonized by the Western powers, so we can hardly expect great things from them
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 NO, the fact that nomadic Arabs conquered ALREADY advanced civilisations does not mean their achievements are owed to Islam. No mention of who had cherished and studied the Ancient Greek, Indian and Persian texts for 1,000 years BEFORE Islam. No mention of WHO translated that work into Arabic. No mention of the fact that the font of that wisdom was eventually stemmed and silenced 1,000 years ago.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui The point is that the muslims clearly prized the intellectual achievements of the Greeks otherwise they wouldn't have been interested in asking Syrian monks to translate the texts into Arabic; but you are also failing to realize that the Muslims (Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, Ibn al-Haythum, and many others) actually expanded upon the Greek inheritance. In other words, they contributed to the advancement of human kind; and to deny that is an injustice.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Again, I have to disagree. Muslims, by definition, are committed to fairy tales and dogma. Slapping an Arab name on someone does not make them a 'believing Muslim'. The great thinkers of yesteryear (most of whom were anything but Arab) HAD to be careful of what they said of Islam, though some did write of their contempt for it. As usual, Islamic propaganda claims the achievements that have NOTHING to do with the Koran. The MAIN contribution was that ADVANCED peoples shared Arabic.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Again, you make wild claims; the Western powers did not 'colonize' the Muslim world. The demise of the Ottoman Empire was NOT a matter of colonization but its defeat in a war. Had the West 'colonised' the Muslim lands then perhaps things might have turned out differently. Who knows. But we DO know that Muslim Arabs have been brought up with a supremacist separatist ideology and their once great promise has UTTERLY disappeared BECAUSE of Islam.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui There is no historian I know of who would deny that the Muslim lands were colonized by the West. Historians these days are talking about "Post-Colonial trauma" in the muslim world, so clearly you are mistaken. Look at all the dictators in the so-called muslim world- who put them in power? For the most part, the west! The Shah in Iran (before Khomeini) was a US/UK backed ruler; Saddam Hossein; Mubarak; Gaddafi, etc. The mess in the Muslim world is largely a Western mess.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 How much do you know of what it was like under the Ottoman Empire? What do you know of the massacres? What do you know AT ALL? The Europeans were only involved in the Middle East for less than 80 years. Of course the Muslims blame everyone and everything except their own ideology which forbids criticism of it. The Muslims CANNOT learn from their mistakes because the aren't even informed about them. No apology for 1,400 years slaving. No apology for the genocides. Just propaganda.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
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capturedpilot 1 week ago
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@bayreuth79 The Ottoman Empire was extant until 1928. It was in existence for about 800 years, during which time it specialised in torture, mutilation, and slavery.
So when did the West actually have time to 'colonise' it. Mainly, the West has been restisting conquest from it. This resistance has gone on for hundreds of years. That's not 'colonising.' That's fighting back.
Islam does not like that, though, does it? Bullies hate it when they get hit back. Poor Islam.
capturedpilot 1 week ago
Zeba=naive child.
mouthyweasel 2 weeks ago
This jerk begins to reveal his true colors at around 36:45. He used to hate. Now he finds "peaceful" and "rational" ways to justify his beggarly allegiance to an already bankrupt faith. Judge Islam by its nonsense. Did Muhammad have a book dictated to him by an "Angel" called Gabriel? Did he fly off on a horse (Buraq) or is that also nonsense? JUST FUCKING BE HONEST. It's obviously nonsense. And it will kill you to defend its place in your face.
mouthyweasel 2 weeks ago
Also... this moderator is awful. Sorry, buddy. But... you're awful.
mouthyweasel 2 weeks ago
Islam has produced a tremendous amount of violence and death. I'm not looking to compare religions here. I'm just stating a fact. Christians, and Muslims are statistically INCREDIBLY violent. That's just a fact. All pop religions are nonsense. Judaism, Christianity, Islam.... they make wild supernatural claims that are not true. So.... just fuck them all. We're all violent apes. territorial. sexually jealous. greedy. disgusting. Am I wrong?
mouthyweasel 2 weeks ago
The Koran is 'like the Constitution.' America, are you going to swallow that? Really?
capturedpilot 2 weeks ago
@capturedpilot The Constitution of the United States: the sacred text of flag worshippers and other irrationalists. I admire the Constitution up to a point (it is, after all, the product of Jefferson's immersion in the philosophy of John Locke, etc) but the degree of reverence that Americans have for it is out of all proportion to its actual value as a document.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Say what, bro?
capturedpilot 1 week ago
Do you really trust Mr Oily Guy? Could he be any more patently deceptive?
capturedpilot 2 weeks ago
By the way, most Muslims, throughout the world, can't even read. They are not the wise, 'questioning' philosophers that this silly girl is trying to make them out to be.
capturedpilot 2 weeks ago
@capturedpilot You claim that most muslims can't read. That might be true for all I know; but how do you know? And even if it were true do you really expect us to believe that that is Islam's fault? The West colonized the "Muslim world" and as a consequence kept the indigenous population in a condition of cultural alienation (including education), so you can blame the West for that problem. Islam produced one of the greatest Civilizations in world history, so don't be patronizing
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
The Muslim bimbo is a complete stooge: if you believe this bimbo, think about this . . .
The Muslim Brotherhood, financed by Saudi, spends billions on PR; part of this PR is the creation of characters-for-public-consumption, like little Miss Butter Wouldn't Melt here. It's an old old trick: give the enemy a friendly (pretty?) face, to get them to drop their guard.
Islam wants to destroy the West. That's the truth.
capturedpilot 2 weeks ago
@capturedpilot What an absurd statement! Of course the Muslim Brotherhood has nothing whatsoever to do Zeba Khan (whom you kindly referred to as "the muslim bimbo"). The Muslim Brotherhood are an extremist organization, but Zeba Kahn articulates an understanding of Islam which is certainly not extremist (far from it). In fact, she is openly against the MB. Furthermore, the MB wouldn't even consider her to be a muslim given that she doesn't wear the veil- hardly a view of Islam they espouse!
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
islam sucks , quran sucks , god dosent exist , quran , bible , they all written by men , men with penises
loly1969 2 weeks ago
god exist n he dicatates books , fuckoff
loly1969 2 weeks ago
for fuck sake , god is an emotional attitude , religions r false , universe hs always bn here , not created , thats how u know religions r false ,
loly1969 2 weeks ago
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you dont know ..you dont know SHIT!
the mindset of muslims...are SHIT!
that majid guy is tossing and turning on his views because he doesn't know the truth from the myth. he really is just blabbering away not acknowledging any real issues at hand..
OWNED at 1:11:22 !
kingkonghitme 1 month ago
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kingkonghitme 1 month ago
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kingkonghitme 1 month ago
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kingkonghitme 1 month ago
What I do not understand how muslims can believe that Muhammad (the Perfect Man) could do things that they now say to be evil, such as sleeping with a nine year old? If he was, as they claim, morally perfect, how could he act immorally? Modern muslims are more moral than Muhammad himself? What about revelation?
bayreuth79 1 month ago
I am not a muslim, so I have no axe to grind, but Ayaan Hirsi's remarks are astonishingly poor.
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 I am sure you could do better than her, what with you being so patently acute and well-informed. And, yes, I am being sarcastic.
capturedpilot 2 weeks ago
@capturedpilot From your comments I understand that you are an irrational Islamophobe who has scarely read a single book on the subject of Islam. I, however, have attended lectures at Cambridge University and read countless books on the subject of Islam- its history, its legal, theological, and mystical thought, its modern internal problems, etc- but have you? You can be as sarcastic as you like; what counts is knowledge and a decent arguments- none of which you possess.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Khomeini's first book was Kashf al-Asrar, aka Secrets Unveiled, was published in 1942 Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world". Presumably an Ayatollah has no idea about Islam either.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
Ayatollah Khomeini Kashf al-Asrar, aka Secrets Unveiled, 1942 But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world ... Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Ayatollah Khomeini
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Hadith Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol. 9:57. Most Muslims have NO IDEA about the fundamentals of Islam. Those that enjoy relative privilege take NO INTEREST in the hell that Islam visits upon those who have no voice; the slaves, the women behind the veil, the mutilated, the hidden. Look at the 100% Muslim countries to get an idea of what happens when Muslims have NO other influences than Islam. MADHOUSES.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui Your analysis is all too simplistic. There are no Muslim countries any longer. When I look at the so-called Muslim world I cannot find a single country that faithfully implements the Shari'ah. Saudi Arabia is a good example of what I mean. This is an apparently Shari'ah dominated society, but its not really. It is a Wahhabi dominated society; and there is a difference between the two.
The Ottoman Empire didn't execute apostates; and I can't think of any country that does.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Qu’ran 9:38 O you who have believed, what is [the matter] with you that, when you are told to go forth in the cause of Allah , you adhere heavily to the earth? Are you satisfied with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But what is the enjoyment of worldly life compared to the Hereafter except a [very] little.
I am tired of Muslims pretending that there is a 'real' Islam and what we actually see in Islamic States is not 'really' Islam.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui Perhaps you dislike it because it challenges your simple and simplistic understanding of something that is much more complicated- and much more interesting. Of course you can quote verses from the Qur'an out of context and expect us to believe that this quote somehow proves what you are saying. No! It doesn't represent the normative understanding of the Qur'an. Consult the great Tafsirs (Commentaries) and you might be surprised.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 The fact is that in 1,400 years Islam has achieved practically nothing. It has disabled the once great civilisations of the Middle East, and worse, has tried to claim for itself the achievements of those civilisations when in actuality Islam brought it all to an end 1,000 years ago. I am SICK of Islamic apologists who REFUSE to face the evidence that wherever Islam has taken root eventually all is reduced to barbarity. Islam cannot learn if it cannot face its own history.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 By definition, a quote is 'out of context.' How else can one quote a quote? Meanwhile, words are words. If the Koran says "kill" non-believers, then that is what the Koran says. And the Koran does indeed say "kill." It says "kill" most of all. When it's not saying rape or child abuse or animal fucking. The whole 'context' of the Koran is abuse.
So, stop your deception and your pathetic academic pretensions. Get off it, bro.
capturedpilot 1 week ago
@capturedpilot The interesting thing about 'context' is that in fact the context reveals that the Koran is a great deal more depraved than we know. Check out watch?v=XN-g5Cq4JRM when an Arab speaker gives the context of Q9:49 when a man approaches Mohammed asking not to be tested by going on a bandit raid. The context is that he is not afraid of dying but does not like the perverse temptations Mohammed was giving his men, to capture and rape 'blonde' women.
ritchloui 1 week ago
@ritchloui Islam was created around rape. The promise of rape with impunity is the evil energy of Islam, right from the beginning and right up until today.
For example, the MB gains many followers in Manchester and Leeds because those young Muslim guys are told it's okay (in fact, a duty) to rape white teenage girls and force them into prostitution, in 'work houses.' The British police do nothing, of course. They don't want to offend Islam.
What can we do, huh? How do we fight back?
capturedpilot 1 week ago
@capturedpilot The fight back has already begun, with more and more people actually doing their research about Islam. The gloves are off and a far more critical appraisal is underway. I suspect that over the past 150 years Europeans had lost their fear of Islam and begun to buy into its self-adulation and propaganda. This of course has been unwise. 10 years ago most Europeans and Americans had NO IDEA at all about Islam. The whitewash will wear very thin as more historians revisit the issue.
ritchloui 1 week ago
@bayreuth79 Tell me, if Islam 'encourages learning' let us for a moment compare the achievements of the British Empire with the Ottoman Empire. No contest. Britain wipes the floor with the Ottomans on EVERY front. The Ottomans contributed NOTHING at all to the modern world, yet it governed ALL of the once MOST advanced peoples on earth. THAT is Islam's achievement; breaking the human spirit.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui That is a very weak comparison. The Ottoman Empire had its heyday in the late medieval period, whereas the British Empire (which, let us not forget, colonized places such as India with violence and massacres) is a later phenomena, so of course the British Empire is going to contribute more to the modern world!
Muslims transmitted Greek learning to the West. Muslims made important scientific and mathematical advances. Muslim medical texts were used in the West until the 1700s, etc.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Again, you seem to be utterly unable to see the obvious. The Ottoman Empire began LONG before the British Empire and ended at about the same time. The fact that the Ottomans achieved so little, DESPITE governing peoples who had traditionally been the MOST ADVANCED says something about the Ottomans. While Europe was under the Roman Church, it was grizzly. ONLY when the RCC had lost its iron grip did things change in Europe.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Ah, now tell me, which 'massacres' by the British in India are you talking about? I don't want you to say a 'few hundred' equals a massacre, go ahead and give me numbers even in actual battles! You see, normally a massacre means hundreds of thousands, you know, mountains of skulls that some of the Moguls were very keen on building.
ritchloui 2 weeks ago
@ritchloui Khomeini was a Shi'a (Shi'as comprise less that 10% of the muslims worldwide) and as such his views are hardly representative of Islam as a whole. If you think about to the Rushdie Affair in 1989, Khomeini's fatwa ordering the death of Salman Rushdie was rejected by the majority of muslims, including the most important centre for Islamic learning: Al-Azhar University (Cairo). Khomeini is not representative of Islam.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
1.38.20 Moderates "Have refused to turn in the extremists" there you go, says it all really. Muslims put other muslims before non muslims precisely because it is a religious command from a totalitarian supervisor.
GowanBray 1 month ago 2
I wish Hitch could have been on this with Ayaan. However the debate goes on.
The issue here is the outcome of influence.
Take a human brain, invest it with beliefs. Examine the resulting behaviours. Judge the moral value of the outcomes of those behaviours.
Of course, sometimes the outcome will be bad (slavery is OK) or good (education is worthwhile). With Islam etc its clearly negative. Why ? because it disregards the value of the human for the totalitarian which is inerrant. The scales tip.
GowanBray 1 month ago
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she is such an opportunist woman. She lied to get to Netherlands, became the mouth piece for politicians who want to offend and insult islam and remain politically correct. She loves the attention she is getting and using it for own benefit.
habibyALLAH 2 months ago
First the Catholics, now Islam. When Religion debates Reason, reason wins every time.
csadler 2 months ago
obviously this girl who claims to represent that notion that has no clue whatsoever. Among many trivialities she said was that she "Prayed in a synagogue every day" which is quite stupid.
Let us see what happens to here if she says what she is saying here in Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic country. By all means she would be beheaded.
Muslims are in general peaceful as long they live as minorities. Once they have control, " Islam inside them" will turn them into beasts and terrorists.
sadeanlo 2 months ago 2
@sadeanlo she is obviously not who she says she is and who she is representing and that much is clear
zaazi123 2 months ago