...is this LD Policy? My coach won't even let us enter for any type of policy which I'm fine with. Spewing is absolutely ridiculous. You can't understand anything they're saying. Completely defeats the purpose of debating.
Yeah its progressive LD. Its great if thats what you do. But stop complaining about how its policy and LD doesn't have solvency. It can, it just depends on the situation and the tournament. Plus this is NFA, not NFL. Big diffrence
I really enjoy the speed that he is going at, as I'm not flowing this right now, but it is fast enought to get his point around and to debate effectively, but it isn't a fast spread so I (and the other 20,000 people who watched this) can understand it. Effectively I think this is a great round, good job to both debaters and iliketrains76 for uploading.
The title says "LD Debate", not policy, not LD policy, no. Just LD Debate. And this is NOT LD debate. thats the first reason this video fails.
Second,
Spreading is what real debaters do. Anyone who says spreading is bad is fucking retarded. The real tournaments, like the TOC, encourage spreading. Not this national tournament, no-flow, parent judge bullshit. This is for amateurs. Rofl, you're all fags and you all fail. LD and PF are the only real types of debate
@ilyLaura1 The LD you are thinking of is High School LD you know for kids. This is College level LD. Which is policy based and not value/fact based. For us this IS what LD is and we don't give a flying fuck about your highschool ld bullshit. Second there is a written rule against spreading in OUR LD rules. You know not what you say child so put your head down.
Read the title. It's LD Policy. Spreading is supposed to be discouraged, hence, he is not flying. He wants slow-flow judges to be able to follow.
Also, the exact resolution is already provided in the heading. It is the Greater Horn and it is not limited to Public Health. Read the title next time.
Umm...coming from a student currently in LD at the moment, his speaking speed honestly isn't that unusual. I really dislike his (or this) style of debating, and personally, I take care to make sure that both my judge AND opponent are understanding and interesting in what I have to say, to make the debate fair to my opponent.
I guess what I'm saying is that, even if you're getting a lot in, you're really sacrificing for "delivery".
WTF happened to what LD is supposed to be. i joined to debate in an oratorical and philosophical environment, not a policy backed LD (In LD solvency does not exist or should not, its a policy term). :'( if someone can tell me a job that one needs to speak w/o oratorical skills and plainly speed (aside from an auctioneer) then please inform me. why we should sacrifice our speaking skills just for a ballot?
@4T41AS Again, this is LD POLICY. Spreading is discouraged if it impedes their ability to debate each other. They are both going the same rate, so neither has a problem.
Policy is evidence intensive. When engaging in a functional analysis of government proposals, that ought to be an information intensive act. So while you are correct that auctioneers are the only profession that speaks this rate, policy debaters are attempting to match a depth of analysis found in a typical policy brief.
@iliketrains76 i apologize but i see no way that speaking fast gives any debater the ability to look in depth or analyze anything. i just feel that should one speak at a normal conversation pace one could get a greater understanding of what one says. also i dont hear or flow a lot of analysis in this debate, i hear alot of arguments tossed back and forth with evidence from people. that doesnt make in my opinion for good debate.
@4T41AS Fast debate has many key educational advantages over slow. The first major area is that of research and topic knowledge. The debate round itself only lasts for an hour or two. A tournament at most three days. People research for months, sometimes even years (for policy year-long topics, at least in high school). There is so much more research and exploration, both in depth and breadth of topics. Doing both debate (note that I am not dismissing lay, simply saying fast has its own merits).
@4T41AS i agree w/ you about the impracticality of this fast-paced debate, but what's the alternative? im looking to get involved in "oratorical and philosophical" debate next year, but have you found other organizations to do this in?
@4T41AS LD has a given resolution when given a resolution one must find imperical evidence ( warrants) to support it policy debate is predominantly (excuse bad spelling if some is there) in CX but can be used in other forms of debate if your going for speaking skills then go to student congress or Extempt, and by the way you still need speaking skills thus SPEAKER points on ballots.
I was an LD debater back in the early 80s, and I think LD was actually founded because CX had become so ridiculous as far as spreading and so on. This kid sounds like exactly what LD was invented to NOT be. Values inherency, anyone?
Well, yeah, he's not going fast in terms of policy debate, But even policy debate has been criticized for that. If you're going to teach speech, teach speech. This isn't speech. Neither was CX 25 years ago. I'm not the old man saying 'get off my lawn'. This was going on even then. Stunk then, stinks now. What are kids really learning from this? I will concede one thing (and it IS important for college). Research skills. But not speech.
This really isn't all that fast. Flowing this wouldn't be hard whatsoever, and if you miss voters, cross-ex clarification is an "if nothing else" fallback option.
I was in LD back in the day, and I must say that I could mess that Spencer kid up. As a side note, his speed was nothing compared to the debators that I've went up against.
it makes me wanna go, "hey judge, I would totally attack this guy's case, if I had understood a word he said." guess that's what you get when an actress debates. hahaha
well like I said; at speech tournaments I do the acting events. doing debate unravels everything about speaking that I believe in. so yes. still too fast for me.
hmm, well its true that it is way more challenging. ok, thats fine. LD is still pretty difficult though, definitely more than Congress or Public Forum ~
this is a maveric policy round we r SUBSTANTIALLY losing the ability 2 realize that LD is PHYLOSOPHY debate. if u would like 2 talk fast about statistics gain social skills at least enough 2 b able 2 have a partner b able 2 STAND u. otherwise don't debate. ur talking away from LD as a whole.
Value: protectingl ld debate
Criterion: teleology
C1: Using LD for its teleogical purpose
A. the teleological purpose of an LD debate is to gain PHILOSOPHICAL knowledge.
i woulda prefered if he didnt read as fast though. totally kills the purpose. all spreaders do are overwhelm the other side with arguments. if thats their winning strategy, then its totally pathetic. honestly though, this guy wasnt really spreading and a lot of judges dont mind that anymore. LD has changed so much D:
spreading is when the speaker speaks as fast as they can (almost totally disregarding comprehension) in order to get as much material out as possible.
no, debating is about winning arguments, not talking pretty. spreading is a very useful strategy, this guys pissed because he knows he'll never make it outside of league tournaments
The sad thing is, is not only spreading ruining debate but almost every resoulution that comes out for LD could be used in CX debate if the word policy is inserted. They are that similar
In LD, as I always say before I judge a round, speed kills. LD is a persuasive communication event. That is what sets it apart from the other styles. This guy would lost if I was judging him. I'd put down my pen and stop listening as soon as he started spreading.
There are a few reasons why you would. Some judges think speed is a good thing, and it can be used to your advantage. Some debaters like spreading. Some coaches make their debaters spread.
For the beginning, i think spencer did a good job of spreading effectively because 1. the girl was will have to leave out more arguments and focus on ones to defend her value 2. he controlled cross x effectively since he provided strong answers and effectively chose what to answer 3. the girl did not ask short-concise ?'s thus wasting her own time 4. she did not reiterate questions she wanted answers to
This feels extremely similar to policy, but obviously that was already pointed out by so many. But did anyone else notice that he sounds like Kermit the Frog? It's eerily similar.
This IS NFL. NFL is like the head company NFA-LD is like a store that sells some of what the head company has to offer.
Parli is NPDA but it's still a part of the NFL.
And Policy garners no education that doing NFA-LD and NPDA have when both done by the debater. I'd argue the point that doing those two are actually better for the debater than doing Policy.
And Policy debaters are notorious for being... Policy Debaters. I'd rather be a Forensicator. =]
I don't like spreading in general, and it sucks that this has happened to LD.
Short term: regular parents won't get it, when you're competing at local tournaments.
Long term: what do you get out of it? Speech & Debate is supposed to help you beyond your high school life, but a special "style" of debate like this that is so different from conventional conversations and debates seems kind of useless.
You are right that this style doesn't lend itself to a lay audience. ...But it should be noted that there is a lot in debate that doesn't. Stock issues, for instance, see out of sync with what a newcomer would expect or understand.
The strength of speed is that debaters can fully explore the implications of issues. I don't know if a debate about global warming ought to be reduced to 10 points. The problem is the strategy of spreading so that the opponent cannot respond. This is another issue.
In potentially gaining a "deeper" debate with more complex arguments, a speed debater loses one of the principles of forensics: communication and presentation. Is it so hard to just make a debate longer and/or consider word economy? Then all you lose is some time, not an integral part of debate.
@awkwardhawk there are PLENTY of forensics activities which stress "communication and presentation", like extemp, public forum, and any speech event. LD is evolving to not be one of those activities, at least on the national circuit. and faster debaters usually have better word economy in order to to be concise. also tournaments are usually run on a really tight schedule so increasing speech times would put everyone under huge amount of stress. also, one more thing...define a "speed debater"?
I'd say that debate is elitist and not real world. This is college level and judges that don't know what they are doing have no place in our world. At least in my experience. I judge for high school. I did high school. High school sucks compared to college.
@awkwardhawk Parents usually judge PF where there is an outlaw of spreading just recently made, majority of CX and LD rounds are judged by Varsity debaters and coaches. Towards the long term, this will without a doubt help you take the SAT for example it may not use all of this information but Speech and Debate help your social, gramatical, and languistic skills which are needed for the reading portion.( pardon spelling was in hurry) they help tons in real life for jobs and college.
i agree.... it is also called value debate for a reason. I dont mind a little spreading but in my opinion this is a little fast. However bozz is correct that LD is becoming faster(unfortunately). I guess im just old fashioned because i have been coached by an old fashioned coach.
Hmmm... compared with sort of the current standard in LD, he's not going very fast. Flow judges nowadays would have no issue whatsoever. As for emphasis, he's putting lots of stuff down everywhere on the flow. He may be going somewhat fast, but he's explaining quite clearly. The plan text isn't an issue, just another form of argumentation. LD isn't necessarily characterized by value/vc debate. It's become sort of normative, but there's no necessity for a value.
There is a difference between being able to understand arguments, and being able to flow arguments. And for those of you out there who know nothing about debate but still think they do, flowing means you write arguments down. That's what the judge needs to do. The speaker needs to be talking slowly enough for the judge to be able to flow all the arguments.
I find both of them rather annoying. But the boy is definitely understandable. I heard every word he said. But just as a tip since this isn't policy, because he was going so fast he wasn't able to emphasize anything. and emphasis is HUGE when making arguments.
Goddamn. This guy is running a mini-policy case, and I wonder what the topic writers were smoking when they posted this in LD. He misframes his case so much I would almost drop him before the end of this video.
The topic was released by the NFL. This is for College. I see nothing wrong with the way he debated this. Understand he didn't make this case himself. he had his team and coaches helping him. If you would drop him before this video you clearly don't know what you're doing.
is this a competition on who can move theri mouth faster, or a way in which ideas are shared and discussed offering both points of view? it seems like the first one to me. He mumbles, how are u suppose to follow that?
wow that is hardly a hard spread to follow guys. If you can't understand him then you can't handle LD, let alone CX.
It is wise to speak quickly, because that's a skill you develop when you do debate. If you can't hack it, keep up and argue back, you have no business debating.
it is not wise to speak so quickly. the attempt to cram so much into the speech so ur competition have problem touching on all of ur points makes you sound retarded. just try to connect with the judges
This isn't the LD that you guys do in HS this is the college circuit NFA LD finals just because you guys can't keep up with the speed doesn't change its educational applications.
NO IT'S NOT! I don't know of any high schoolers that compete on Western Kentucky UNIVERSITY's squad. And that goes for Drury UNIVERSITY'S squad either. If you do let me know, but if not stfu.
this is college LD. it's basically one man policy. high school LD can be this fast too. i used to go this fast in my constructives. varsity judges can usually flow it.
lol LD. oughta stand for legitimate debate. fricken CX.... everything seems to end in nuclear war. and recently, ive seen a couple people run a 'space war' case.
Do you understand that level of speed-reading after gaining some experience or just by practicing flowing? Also, when that girl is reading the copy of his case, is she listening to him talking and reading at the same time? I really need to learn how to do this...
wow he speaks incfredibolly fast thanks for posting this i'm in 7th grade and im going to do my first L.D. debate so thids is helpfull just wish he'd talk slower but I know they talk fast alot
NFA's version of LD is policy debate. The key differences between NFA and traditional policy debate: It's a 1v1 competition. It has a charter of established rules that suggest an official paradigm. As for your commentary on his speaking abilities, I must disagree. It's possible that you judge a good speaker by eloquent speech. But in debate, the quality of a speech is not determined by lack of stutter, nor posture. A good speaker is noted for positing good points. Spencer is very good.
1. It could be more effective to present fewer, but better researched and more coherent arguments than many, lightly researched arguments
and
2. This guy is talking at such a rate, I could hardly understand him. I find it difficult that anyone would be able to understand 100% of what hes saying, and I find it even harder to believe that anyone could take notes that fast. His speech is therefore less effective because of that
I really do agree with #1 you post. I always advocate that debaters try to win solid, defensible arguments from qualified sources. It preserves the integrity of the activity and it simply looks better. (Ex:No one wants to spend their last speech saying they won because Rush Limbaugh thinks the plan would cause aliens to kill us all.) As for #2,again I say that the standard for speaking is the standard of your opponent and judge.If the room can comprehend it, then you're not speaking too fast.
...hmm well I thought it was LD since it says LD....but this topic does seem to be in policy...but if it IS policy, its a little slower then normal people who do policy cause they spread
In case anyone still reads and cares. Topic was Resolved: that the USFG should substantially increase assistance to the Greater Horn of Africa in one of the following: human rights protection, economic development, or public health (roughly, it is paraphrased)
This was literally the first time he read this case in a round. He doesn't look up because he was on a squad with 2 debaters and 1 argument coach. He was forced to spend more time on researching than practicing just speaking. Watch ARs
I always remind people that speaker points are on a separate section of the ballot from the part that designates the winner. I would like to hear more comments on his argumentation instead of fixation on his presentation. Debate requires more than speaking skills.
this spreading is agonizing
camilamila42 3 weeks ago
just condoms? this isn't going to solve anything. nice, crisp diction but hollow ideas.
politicaldebauchery 1 month ago
...is this LD Policy? My coach won't even let us enter for any type of policy which I'm fine with. Spewing is absolutely ridiculous. You can't understand anything they're saying. Completely defeats the purpose of debating.
kettlecorn442 1 month ago
Wait, what did he say??? Dude, your talking WAY to fast. No Idea how the crap you got to nats.
:P Oh, and have you ever taken a speech class? From watching this video I presume not.
marcuswaterman1 2 months ago
How the fuck did this guy make it to national finals with his terrible speaking skills
AGeekWithAShotgun 3 months ago
Yeah its progressive LD. Its great if thats what you do. But stop complaining about how its policy and LD doesn't have solvency. It can, it just depends on the situation and the tournament. Plus this is NFA, not NFL. Big diffrence
chrisDchandler 9 months ago
one he is unclear two his voice would make me stuff pens in my ears...learn how to speak shorten your construct....
BrettRyan70 11 months ago
I really enjoy the speed that he is going at, as I'm not flowing this right now, but it is fast enought to get his point around and to debate effectively, but it isn't a fast spread so I (and the other 20,000 people who watched this) can understand it. Effectively I think this is a great round, good job to both debaters and iliketrains76 for uploading.
troythisler3 11 months ago
this dude sounds like kermit the frog on meth
yashespatel 1 year ago 7
um.. why is he talking that fast.. this does not sound like a debate
omfgiamhot 1 year ago
this is why it's optional to give your case away for LD
rayfan222 1 year ago
SLOWWWWW down.
MillionVoices13 1 year ago
you guys are all retarded.
The title says "LD Debate", not policy, not LD policy, no. Just LD Debate. And this is NOT LD debate. thats the first reason this video fails.
Second,
Spreading is what real debaters do. Anyone who says spreading is bad is fucking retarded. The real tournaments, like the TOC, encourage spreading. Not this national tournament, no-flow, parent judge bullshit. This is for amateurs. Rofl, you're all fags and you all fail. LD and PF are the only real types of debate
ilyLaura1 1 year ago
@ilyLaura1 The LD you are thinking of is High School LD you know for kids. This is College level LD. Which is policy based and not value/fact based. For us this IS what LD is and we don't give a flying fuck about your highschool ld bullshit. Second there is a written rule against spreading in OUR LD rules. You know not what you say child so put your head down.
darkprincesspoet 1 year ago
Wow. i hoped watching a ld debate round would help me understand this i was so wrong
xmazz31x 1 year ago
this guy spreads like a fuckin tard. Get out of here loser.
pspfathaxor 1 year ago
How disappointing that debate has degraded into a competition over who can talk more quickly.
bgeorgewalker 1 year ago
but it's really weird how can you expect people to adju you this way?? haiz...
wheelchair89 1 year ago
This is not spreading..
tgoloubentsev 1 year ago
It's not slow debate for sure, but its far from spreading
kuzadaman 1 year ago
god, this is a debate? he needs to slow down....
wheelchair89 1 year ago
Hah. I used to watch Spencer debate all the time in high school. Pretty rad seeing him here.
PoeticLieSins 1 year ago
wow. he is speed-talking. thats so gay. it violates ethical laws and shows he doesnt have any pride.
838287 2 years ago
wat
policyguy224 1 year ago
@838287
ha!
If you think that is speed-talking, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Minarchist 1 year ago
This is Policy dumbass, not LD. Not only that, it's Bad Policy. This kid can not spread.
Policy topic from 2 or three years ago that he's debating: Resolved the U.S. ought to substantially increase aid to Subsaharan Africa.
ganixaba 2 years ago 2
@ganixaba
Read the title. It's LD Policy. Spreading is supposed to be discouraged, hence, he is not flying. He wants slow-flow judges to be able to follow.
Also, the exact resolution is already provided in the heading. It is the Greater Horn and it is not limited to Public Health. Read the title next time.
iliketrains76 2 years ago 8
@iliketrains76 the title says nothing about policy
YourLittleVampireBoy 1 year ago
@iliketrains76 The title says nothing about Policy...go you.
ColorfulSilhouette 1 year ago
@iliketrains76 In my debate team, we use Lincoln-Douglas. Is there a difference between LD and LD policy?
ScarletGhost4356 7 months ago
lol this video made me laugh
zlobies 2 years ago
@ganixaba hey, your wrong. this is a NFA - LD. In college (NFA), LD is policy not value based.
RexSilver 7 months ago
Umm...coming from a student currently in LD at the moment, his speaking speed honestly isn't that unusual. I really dislike his (or this) style of debating, and personally, I take care to make sure that both my judge AND opponent are understanding and interesting in what I have to say, to make the debate fair to my opponent.
I guess what I'm saying is that, even if you're getting a lot in, you're really sacrificing for "delivery".
cjn1414118 2 years ago
WTF happened to what LD is supposed to be. i joined to debate in an oratorical and philosophical environment, not a policy backed LD (In LD solvency does not exist or should not, its a policy term). :'( if someone can tell me a job that one needs to speak w/o oratorical skills and plainly speed (aside from an auctioneer) then please inform me. why we should sacrifice our speaking skills just for a ballot?
4T41AS 2 years ago
@4T41AS Again, this is LD POLICY. Spreading is discouraged if it impedes their ability to debate each other. They are both going the same rate, so neither has a problem.
Policy is evidence intensive. When engaging in a functional analysis of government proposals, that ought to be an information intensive act. So while you are correct that auctioneers are the only profession that speaks this rate, policy debaters are attempting to match a depth of analysis found in a typical policy brief.
iliketrains76 2 years ago 2
@iliketrains76 i apologize but i see no way that speaking fast gives any debater the ability to look in depth or analyze anything. i just feel that should one speak at a normal conversation pace one could get a greater understanding of what one says. also i dont hear or flow a lot of analysis in this debate, i hear alot of arguments tossed back and forth with evidence from people. that doesnt make in my opinion for good debate.
4T41AS 1 year ago
@4T41AS Fast debate has many key educational advantages over slow. The first major area is that of research and topic knowledge. The debate round itself only lasts for an hour or two. A tournament at most three days. People research for months, sometimes even years (for policy year-long topics, at least in high school). There is so much more research and exploration, both in depth and breadth of topics. Doing both debate (note that I am not dismissing lay, simply saying fast has its own merits).
LlamaNamedOsama 1 year ago
@iliketrains76 THE TITLE SAYS LD NOT LD POLICY U NEED TO CHANGE IT
TrictionaryHD 9 months ago
@4T41AS i agree w/ you about the impracticality of this fast-paced debate, but what's the alternative? im looking to get involved in "oratorical and philosophical" debate next year, but have you found other organizations to do this in?
sixstring1991 1 year ago
@4T41AS Real Talk man, In my LD competition...I lost to a kid who i was for sure i shouldve beaten and gone 4-0, who was speaking sooo damn fast
This is completely ridiculous
ZzLiGHTNiNGzZ 1 year ago
@4T41AS LD has a given resolution when given a resolution one must find imperical evidence ( warrants) to support it policy debate is predominantly (excuse bad spelling if some is there) in CX but can be used in other forms of debate if your going for speaking skills then go to student congress or Extempt, and by the way you still need speaking skills thus SPEAKER points on ballots.
tyrell5555 1 year ago
He's actually surprisingly slow and relaxed. Not very clear, though. :-/ Maybe it's just the YouTube cap on audio quality.
MarshunMartin 2 years ago
I was an LD debater back in the early 80s, and I think LD was actually founded because CX had become so ridiculous as far as spreading and so on. This kid sounds like exactly what LD was invented to NOT be. Values inherency, anyone?
Raider17 2 years ago
Wrong type of LD. This is NFA-LD, which is pretty much one-person policy. And, in terms of speed, he isn't really going that fast.
Bluestrike2 2 years ago
Well, yeah, he's not going fast in terms of policy debate, But even policy debate has been criticized for that. If you're going to teach speech, teach speech. This isn't speech. Neither was CX 25 years ago. I'm not the old man saying 'get off my lawn'. This was going on even then. Stunk then, stinks now. What are kids really learning from this? I will concede one thing (and it IS important for college). Research skills. But not speech.
Raider17 2 years ago
@Raider17 yeah, if you want to learn "speech" and communicative skills, then you can do speech events...
birthmarkslaya826 2 years ago
@Raider17 also, this isn't very fast in terms of LD (nowadays) either
birthmarkslaya826 2 years ago
Well I found the policy debater.
Senex61 2 years ago
This really isn't all that fast. Flowing this wouldn't be hard whatsoever, and if you miss voters, cross-ex clarification is an "if nothing else" fallback option.
GrahamInStereo 2 years ago
Good grief!
By the time he was done with his aff. speech
And they went to CX I found out that they were talkin bout condoms!!
He needs to slow down. I have a debate tomorrow and i'm not ready for it. Sigh. Oh well.
moneygirl26 2 years ago
aff sounds like seth rogen...
iliveforthis13EN 2 years ago
I´m a debate champion. No, he is not talking fast but try flowing his every word and not let him get your misses in voters- that is the hard part.
libertyingod 2 years ago
Comment removed
Bluestrike2 2 years ago
Isn't this policy debate?
dictator4rent 2 years ago
no. policy has teams.
emimeow 2 years ago
I could swear that this kid is still in hight school. I just saw someone who looked just like him at my debate this weekend.
Cerebrus000 2 years ago
I was in LD back in the day, and I must say that I could mess that Spencer kid up. As a side note, his speed was nothing compared to the debators that I've went up against.
h2dennis 2 years ago
That's true. i'm in open LD as a freshman and today, for example, the semi-finals of Damien Debates were much faster.
He's not spreading at all.
Dandaman95 2 years ago
ugh, I freaking hate when people speed,
it makes me wanna go, "hey judge, I would totally attack this guy's case, if I had understood a word he said." guess that's what you get when an actress debates. hahaha
BabyImmaSuperstarr 2 years ago
this stuff really isn't that fast, I wouldn't even call this spreading
erzzr 2 years ago
well, it's still too fast when you're more of an interper and you decide to try debate. but you're right, I have heard faster.
BabyImmaSuperstarr 2 years ago
He's not talking quickly at all....
Dandaman95 2 years ago
well like I said; at speech tournaments I do the acting events. doing debate unravels everything about speaking that I believe in. so yes. still too fast for me.
BabyImmaSuperstarr 2 years ago
ugh fast talkers kill the suspense
DawsonDreamer 2 years ago
Debate has suspense unique to its "slow" form?
OWC1987 2 years ago
LD = Lincoln Douglass = loser debate
jxw6762 2 years ago
haha, and what is "winner" debate?
hitsugaya1001 2 years ago
c-x
jxw6762 2 years ago
hmm, well its true that it is way more challenging. ok, thats fine. LD is still pretty difficult though, definitely more than Congress or Public Forum ~
hitsugaya1001 2 years ago
@jxw6762 too bad you can't spell "Douglas"
birthmarkslaya826 2 years ago
@birthmarkslaya826 thats how bad it is. affects my spelling
jxw6762 2 years ago
What? The resolution doesn't sound like LD and it doesn't look like LD. What has gone wrong? I miss how I learned LD.
AlannaPwnsAtDebate 2 years ago
Manner: 27
Matter: 30
Method: 15
Total: 72
His manner kills him.
randomquotage 2 years ago
this is a maveric policy round we r SUBSTANTIALLY losing the ability 2 realize that LD is PHYLOSOPHY debate. if u would like 2 talk fast about statistics gain social skills at least enough 2 b able 2 have a partner b able 2 STAND u. otherwise don't debate. ur talking away from LD as a whole.
Value: protectingl ld debate
Criterion: teleology
C1: Using LD for its teleogical purpose
A. the teleological purpose of an LD debate is to gain PHILOSOPHICAL knowledge.
-->idk how you made it to nats.
Sammeejo56 2 years ago
i believe that LD is a value debate, too.
i woulda prefered if he didnt read as fast though. totally kills the purpose. all spreaders do are overwhelm the other side with arguments. if thats their winning strategy, then its totally pathetic. honestly though, this guy wasnt really spreading and a lot of judges dont mind that anymore. LD has changed so much D:
BRING BACK THE IMPORTANCE OF A VALUE ;_;
hitsugaya1001 2 years ago
hes reading fast because he has a lot to say. when I am debating I have to speak fast to say all I need to say.
redraidersfan6 2 years ago
My equality is more importance than your Peace. GO VALUE!
OWC1987 2 years ago
rest assured. this isn't LD. it's NFA-LD, some sort of strange spin-off.
and values FTW.
ChUbErTaL 2 years ago
Hes not really spreading, i mean i am a cx person so I've heard faster, but at least hes clear.
Spellcastor1100 2 years ago
spreading= BADDDDDDDDD
slipknotmetallicafan 2 years ago
what's spreading?
veezbokumar 2 years ago
spreading is when the speaker speaks as fast as they can (almost totally disregarding comprehension) in order to get as much material out as possible.
mortalxfatality 2 years ago
that sounds pretty retarded to me...doesn't that completely destroy the art of speaking?
veezbokumar 2 years ago
yes it does, but people use it, distorting the point of speech and debate, in order to win. its a sick practice.
mortalxfatality 2 years ago
You're a sick practice.
OWC1987 2 years ago
What's artistic about speaking?
OWC1987 2 years ago
no, debating is about winning arguments, not talking pretty. spreading is a very useful strategy, this guys pissed because he knows he'll never make it outside of league tournaments
thesupersurfer 2 years ago
The sad thing is, is not only spreading ruining debate but almost every resoulution that comes out for LD could be used in CX debate if the word policy is inserted. They are that similar
LegalizeMedCannabis 2 years ago
omg my name is spencer harris too
mulattoh1 2 years ago
In LD, as I always say before I judge a round, speed kills. LD is a persuasive communication event. That is what sets it apart from the other styles. This guy would lost if I was judging him. I'd put down my pen and stop listening as soon as he started spreading.
MrJudL 2 years ago
come on!!! dont spread in LD thats laaaaame
GittlesAndVits 2 years ago
yeah. why spread on LD? it becomes like CX
osmark0 2 years ago
There are a few reasons why you would. Some judges think speed is a good thing, and it can be used to your advantage. Some debaters like spreading. Some coaches make their debaters spread.
darkprincesspoet 2 years ago
i think that the name of the video is wrong its an CX debate ? lolz
pinkwall94 2 years ago
i love how destructive cross x can be :D
For the beginning, i think spencer did a good job of spreading effectively because 1. the girl was will have to leave out more arguments and focus on ones to defend her value 2. he controlled cross x effectively since he provided strong answers and effectively chose what to answer 3. the girl did not ask short-concise ?'s thus wasting her own time 4. she did not reiterate questions she wanted answers to
makimaki51o 2 years ago
why did his harms take 4 minutes?
coolswimmerguy5 2 years ago
Uhh hi here's a little fun fact for the person who named this video:
this topic was for CX in 2008, not LD.
soadluvr8 2 years ago
mass failure
no true premise
framework
or any warrants
just fail
Jockey701 2 years ago
This feels extremely similar to policy, but obviously that was already pointed out by so many. But did anyone else notice that he sounds like Kermit the Frog? It's eerily similar.
misanthrope37 2 years ago 10
this is pathetic... compared to NFL, this is nothing...
just b/c you speed read doesnt mean ur great...
if she listened carefully, there was a lot of repition and mistakes within his speech and could be easily implemented in an overwhelming victory
i personally like L-D style debate since its style really helps you in humanities and other classes... really helps u plan ur logic out...
but seriously, that dude is kinda good, he should be in policy :)
shigenmakizan 2 years ago
This IS NFL. NFL is like the head company NFA-LD is like a store that sells some of what the head company has to offer.
Parli is NPDA but it's still a part of the NFL.
And Policy garners no education that doing NFA-LD and NPDA have when both done by the debater. I'd argue the point that doing those two are actually better for the debater than doing Policy.
And Policy debaters are notorious for being... Policy Debaters. I'd rather be a Forensicator. =]
darkprincesspoet 2 years ago
I don't like spreading in general, and it sucks that this has happened to LD.
Short term: regular parents won't get it, when you're competing at local tournaments.
Long term: what do you get out of it? Speech & Debate is supposed to help you beyond your high school life, but a special "style" of debate like this that is so different from conventional conversations and debates seems kind of useless.
awkwardhawk 2 years ago
You are right that this style doesn't lend itself to a lay audience. ...But it should be noted that there is a lot in debate that doesn't. Stock issues, for instance, see out of sync with what a newcomer would expect or understand.
The strength of speed is that debaters can fully explore the implications of issues. I don't know if a debate about global warming ought to be reduced to 10 points. The problem is the strategy of spreading so that the opponent cannot respond. This is another issue.
iliketrains76 2 years ago
In potentially gaining a "deeper" debate with more complex arguments, a speed debater loses one of the principles of forensics: communication and presentation. Is it so hard to just make a debate longer and/or consider word economy? Then all you lose is some time, not an integral part of debate.
awkwardhawk 2 years ago
@awkwardhawk there are PLENTY of forensics activities which stress "communication and presentation", like extemp, public forum, and any speech event. LD is evolving to not be one of those activities, at least on the national circuit. and faster debaters usually have better word economy in order to to be concise. also tournaments are usually run on a really tight schedule so increasing speech times would put everyone under huge amount of stress. also, one more thing...define a "speed debater"?
birthmarkslaya826 2 years ago
I'd say that debate is elitist and not real world. This is college level and judges that don't know what they are doing have no place in our world. At least in my experience. I judge for high school. I did high school. High school sucks compared to college.
darkprincesspoet 2 years ago
@awkwardhawk Parents usually judge PF where there is an outlaw of spreading just recently made, majority of CX and LD rounds are judged by Varsity debaters and coaches. Towards the long term, this will without a doubt help you take the SAT for example it may not use all of this information but Speech and Debate help your social, gramatical, and languistic skills which are needed for the reading portion.( pardon spelling was in hurry) they help tons in real life for jobs and college.
tyrell5555 1 year ago
bozz- the value IS absolutely necessary.. it is what one is supposed to base his case off of.
As far as his delivery, It seems like eye contact has gone out of style lol
in any case, this is a pretty good debate..
Beta311 2 years ago
i agree.... it is also called value debate for a reason. I dont mind a little spreading but in my opinion this is a little fast. However bozz is correct that LD is becoming faster(unfortunately). I guess im just old fashioned because i have been coached by an old fashioned coach.
woodwesley 2 years ago 2
This is not that fast. The top CXers spread about 500 words a minute. I wish LD debate were like this in high school.
Zhou9 2 years ago
This is NFA LD its a college event not high school there is a difference. NFA LD is a one on one policy round.
spydermrj 2 years ago
Hmmm... compared with sort of the current standard in LD, he's not going very fast. Flow judges nowadays would have no issue whatsoever. As for emphasis, he's putting lots of stuff down everywhere on the flow. He may be going somewhat fast, but he's explaining quite clearly. The plan text isn't an issue, just another form of argumentation. LD isn't necessarily characterized by value/vc debate. It's become sort of normative, but there's no necessity for a value.
bozzioismyhero 3 years ago 2
There is a difference between being able to understand arguments, and being able to flow arguments. And for those of you out there who know nothing about debate but still think they do, flowing means you write arguments down. That's what the judge needs to do. The speaker needs to be talking slowly enough for the judge to be able to flow all the arguments.
DecorusRuina 3 years ago
this is like, one-man policy
birthmarkslaya26 3 years ago
I find both of them rather annoying. But the boy is definitely understandable. I heard every word he said. But just as a tip since this isn't policy, because he was going so fast he wasn't able to emphasize anything. and emphasis is HUGE when making arguments.
xxxLAWRENCExxx 3 years ago
Goddamn. This guy is running a mini-policy case, and I wonder what the topic writers were smoking when they posted this in LD. He misframes his case so much I would almost drop him before the end of this video.
bigtandmmb 3 years ago
he has a heavy, policy background
fdddxxx655 3 years ago
The topic was released by the NFL. This is for College. I see nothing wrong with the way he debated this. Understand he didn't make this case himself. he had his team and coaches helping him. If you would drop him before this video you clearly don't know what you're doing.
darkprincesspoet 2 years ago
Lulz at the people who think this is spreading.
Paste this into your URL bar after the = sign: yrJdCbHqhGk
That's a *rebuttal* speech. Klinger's not even reading cards in that one.
ArgumentiveSilence 3 years ago
is this a competition on who can move theri mouth faster, or a way in which ideas are shared and discussed offering both points of view? it seems like the first one to me. He mumbles, how are u suppose to follow that?
superandwich 3 years ago
Once you get better , you can flow it. I'm able to to flow this, he's not even talking that fast to flow. it takes practice
Jinder221 3 years ago
you have to understand that most judges arent good enought to flow that though, specially in LD
hobosaywhat 3 years ago 2
I disagree, Parent judges ya, but most judges can I think. He's speaking very clear.
Jinder221 3 years ago
wow that is hardly a hard spread to follow guys. If you can't understand him then you can't handle LD, let alone CX.
It is wise to speak quickly, because that's a skill you develop when you do debate. If you can't hack it, keep up and argue back, you have no business debating.
heartofmysins 3 years ago 2
it is not wise to speak so quickly. the attempt to cram so much into the speech so ur competition have problem touching on all of ur points makes you sound retarded. just try to connect with the judges
willden15 3 years ago
This isn't the LD that you guys do in HS this is the college circuit NFA LD finals just because you guys can't keep up with the speed doesn't change its educational applications.
spydermrj 3 years ago
Wheres the philosophy? wheres the value and criterion? wheres the public speaking skills? Where is the Debate?
superextempman 3 years ago
It doesn't need a value and value criterion; it's a plan text. "The US should fund condom social marketing programs in Uganda." go to 4:25ish
123x45x67 3 years ago
OMG go back to high school please.
darkprincesspoet 2 years ago 5
this IS in high school...
kikyoh8r 2 years ago
No it's not. Read the description box. These guys are from Colleges. This is NFA-LD.
darkprincesspoet 2 years ago
NO IT'S NOT! I don't know of any high schoolers that compete on Western Kentucky UNIVERSITY's squad. And that goes for Drury UNIVERSITY'S squad either. If you do let me know, but if not stfu.
darkprincesspoet 2 years ago
Fucccccccccccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
That Spead Is going to kill debate forever.
You do not sound smart when you speak that fast.
It sounds like he snorted speed before his round!
superextempman 3 years ago
i agree about speed in general, however if youve ever been to an invitational or seen toc debators they tend to go wayyy faster than these debators
valleygrl411 3 years ago
this sounds like a poopoo resolution.
and if he didn't sound so much like Bert from Sesame Street, you'd understand him better.
AaronTheSecond 3 years ago
Speak slower god dammit what the fuck???
macintologist04 3 years ago
All you pofo noobs, he is not going fast for any form of LD. The freshman on my team at lay rounds are at least twice this.
RougeWaterPoloPlayer 3 years ago 2
isnt he talking a bit fast for LD?
piggienose 3 years ago 2
this is college LD. it's basically one man policy. high school LD can be this fast too. i used to go this fast in my constructives. varsity judges can usually flow it.
coolswimmerguy5 3 years ago
This guy is speaking at like 400 WPM. You should generally speak at 120 WPM. That way the Judge can flow your arguments.
PivotMaster990 3 years ago
Comment removed
heartofmysins 3 years ago
Wow... I wonder how the judges even flowed that...
PivotMaster990 3 years ago
it probably wasn't that hard for them.
it really wasn't that fast.
MissHeartxx 3 years ago
Your right it was very,very slow.
RougeWaterPoloPlayer 3 years ago
what are you talking about? he isn't even speeding
klcc66 3 years ago
lol LD. oughta stand for legitimate debate. fricken CX.... everything seems to end in nuclear war. and recently, ive seen a couple people run a 'space war' case.
dacalpha 3 years ago
I know that guy hahaha
zpandsamd 3 years ago
Do you understand that level of speed-reading after gaining some experience or just by practicing flowing? Also, when that girl is reading the copy of his case, is she listening to him talking and reading at the same time? I really need to learn how to do this...
smilemkay 3 years ago
wow he speaks incfredibolly fast thanks for posting this i'm in 7th grade and im going to do my first L.D. debate so thids is helpfull just wish he'd talk slower but I know they talk fast alot
lenamoon96 3 years ago
This is a college LD debate round. In HS LD, unless your debating in the varsity pool, you can expect debaters to speak the same rate or slower.
yuo2233 3 years ago
Remember two things;
1) This is essentially single person policy debate at a slower speed.
2) High School LD is structured differently.
Turtlehoop 3 years ago
nice spelling buddy. I dont remember learning 2nd grade grammar which you fail to use.... in 2nd grade.
RobertQiao 3 years ago
im in congress in debate and confused HELP
jason21923 3 years ago
Ummm.... I think this is policy, NOT LD?
Maybe he's just a bad speaker...?
Oh, yep, just a bad speaker.
MrCropper 3 years ago
NFA's version of LD is policy debate. The key differences between NFA and traditional policy debate: It's a 1v1 competition. It has a charter of established rules that suggest an official paradigm. As for your commentary on his speaking abilities, I must disagree. It's possible that you judge a good speaker by eloquent speech. But in debate, the quality of a speech is not determined by lack of stutter, nor posture. A good speaker is noted for positing good points. Spencer is very good.
iliketrains76 3 years ago
A good speaker is noted for good arguments, but!
1. It could be more effective to present fewer, but better researched and more coherent arguments than many, lightly researched arguments
and
2. This guy is talking at such a rate, I could hardly understand him. I find it difficult that anyone would be able to understand 100% of what hes saying, and I find it even harder to believe that anyone could take notes that fast. His speech is therefore less effective because of that
pyroatheist 3 years ago 2
I really do agree with #1 you post. I always advocate that debaters try to win solid, defensible arguments from qualified sources. It preserves the integrity of the activity and it simply looks better. (Ex:No one wants to spend their last speech saying they won because Rush Limbaugh thinks the plan would cause aliens to kill us all.) As for #2,again I say that the standard for speaking is the standard of your opponent and judge.If the room can comprehend it, then you're not speaking too fast.
iliketrains76 3 years ago
Scrath my last comment. Stupid moment.
0tubachick0 3 years ago
Actually, the speed of his speech is somewhat normal for LD, im in my first year and its actually quite easy to take notes down if you "flow" it
BleakPerfection 3 years ago
This isn't even LD is it? I thought this was the Policy topic last year.
0tubachick0 3 years ago
...hmm well I thought it was LD since it says LD....but this topic does seem to be in policy...but if it IS policy, its a little slower then normal people who do policy cause they spread
BleakPerfection 3 years ago
Sorry, said scratch the last comment. lol
I thought it was last years Policy topic for NFL, but it's not NFL.
0tubachick0 3 years ago
While I accept it is somewhat quick for the layman, by debate standards, this is incredibly slow (even by LD standards).
medman196 3 years ago
Ahaha a fellow LDer!
RougeWaterPoloPlayer 3 years ago
Comment removed
heartofmysins 3 years ago
In case anyone still reads and cares. Topic was Resolved: that the USFG should substantially increase assistance to the Greater Horn of Africa in one of the following: human rights protection, economic development, or public health (roughly, it is paraphrased)
This was literally the first time he read this case in a round. He doesn't look up because he was on a squad with 2 debaters and 1 argument coach. He was forced to spend more time on researching than practicing just speaking. Watch ARs
jambroni 3 years ago 2
I always remind people that speaker points are on a separate section of the ballot from the part that designates the winner. I would like to hear more comments on his argumentation instead of fixation on his presentation. Debate requires more than speaking skills.
iliketrains76 3 years ago
Not to say it doesn't require both, however.
Gehile 3 years ago
he can't look up at all? The only motion he makes is to push his glasses back up. eprang24 is right, he definitely sounds like Kermit. :)
LordofSorrow 3 years ago
Ha. Very true...
fastfuriousfingers 3 years ago
wow this is not how we do ld, way to fast for effective presentation
mjthree45242 3 years ago 3