HOW TO: Record Drums-Overheads-AKG C414-PRM

[dripgoss]

XY is great if you're you're trying to do lo-fi, don't have a lot of cymbals in a big physical arc, don't care much about stereo spread and are trying to also capture drums with the cymbals. XY's also lovely at washy sounding cymbals and lots of kit bleed. However, a *well done* AB technique is so much more flexible, isolated and generally produces better sounding cymbal tracks most of the time with the right mics and placement.

[JensHappe]

xy is the best for my opinions

[jabathehut420]

sounds like david cross

[vincentmack37]

the funny think about youtube is that people get into the most ridiculous arguments that they would never get into face to face, see below for examples. now somebody attack me for saying that

[ScalerWave]

Might want to upload a higher res vid next time. The sound quality could be a bit better.

[drummerdominicjordan]

pie - stee

[DrumStickBurner]

pay-stee

PAY-STEE?!?!?!?!?!

YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!!!

IM GOING TO KILL EVERY FUCKING ONE WHO WILL CALL IT ANYTHING OTHER THAN pie-stee, which is the closest foreigners can pronounce

only estonians can call it like its meant to be called

long live the spirit of Toomas Paiste

[BackBeatBoom]

@DrumStickBurner

Jeez, To quote Sgt. Hulka in Stripes, "Lighten up Francis". What a Douchebag.

[DrumStickBurner]

@BackBeatBoom

well sorry for being somewhat of a grammar and pronuncuation nazi

its just horrible to listen people saying pay-stee or even worse - paste

and its awful to watch how someone is using a base drum

its just, painful

[IfOnlyHumansCouldFly]

@DrumStickBurner

Haha. Recap: you're a self proclaimed grammar Nazi. You spelled "bass" wrong. You also spelled "it's" wrong. The comma after "just" is superfluous.

Bam.

[DrumStickBurner]

@IfOnlyHumansCouldFly

oh fucking come on!

i could write basically flawless text (except upper comas)

and if you would read my sentence again, you will see that it is sarcastic (i like people using a bass drum and i love people using two bass drums)

and fuck comas

its about general writing

actually better yet, screw the English language

minge kõik vittu! sitapead!

[IfOnlyHumansCouldFly]

@DrumStickBurner Wow, contrats dude. You're a huge jerk. You can insult me in Estonian, awesome. I was having a bit of fun with your hypocrisy, and you just had to ruin it, you dick.

[DrumStickBurner]

@IfOnlyHumansCouldFly

cry me a river :D

no seriously, can't we already forget this?

it's getting annoying

[LTChaosLT]

he stares at your soul

[flippytheleper]

say paiste right, I am so sick of hearing that

[JonnyWedel]

@flippytheleper lol i know what you mean, i just corrected someone the other day and he didn't even care.

[beau96080]

@JonnyWedel let me know how to pronounce it because my whole drumming life I've always called it "Paste-ee".. because that's just how it looks to me. I'm being serious. I don't use them, but I'd still like to know how to say it.

[JonnyWedel]

@beau96080 well the stee is correct, but the first part is like saying "pint" (of beer etc.) but with an Irish accent. like "pi-stee". its a hard word to describe.  and it has weird pronunciation because its dutch.

[beau96080]

@JonnyWedel thanks!

[SheikTijl]

@flippytheleper

He said it correct

[flippytheleper]

@SheikTijl it's pie-stee, not pay-stee

[SheikTijl]

@flippytheleper

hmmmmmmm, pie

[ryanward421]

I have a Pair of Neumann TLM 103's that I use for over heads and they get a much clearer tone then the akgs i think

[BencafeDunord]

I was talking to a friend, and he said the X-Y technique only works with 414s...

[mcbublick]

@BencafeDunord any cardiod mic can do x-y

[boondocksaints556]

Hi, great video. I am wondering whether you set up each of the 414's to a stereo track on your recording software...or did you set up mono tracks? Not sure which is the better option when using a pair of stereo mics and would really appreciate some insight...

[RockDanielRoll]

press always 2 for pig sound

press always 3 for bird sound

press always 4 for dog sound

[SicFloBeatz]

it's not a $1000 dollar microphone or anything....

[BobertBarker101]

I actually considered this until I realized the mics were $999 each

[YoungTrellafrella]

@BobertBarker101 hahahah

[drukqs2369]

dudes on crystal meth

[TriplePac]

Delegate! Get a real drummer to play instead of the wanking... Then you'll hear what you need. Paiste: "pie stee". Geezzzz...

[jimmylesliedrums]

paistey?

[lordward69]

Try rolling of between 500 and 800 hz? Gawd!

[1234588750]

is it possible to use the xy recording technique with normal mics? if so, is it possible to only use this method for decent sounding recordings? i am a guitar/keyboard guy, would a compressor help quality at all for this technique?

[edjorthebeast]

is 4' above the cymbals the lowest the mics can be placed, or can they be placed lower and still have a good recording quality?

[derm3000]

NICE VIDEO

[ToAsTmAn119911]

Funny how he's showing how to record in stereo, when we only have the left channel

[thepain258]

i love how its in mono

[pudge12yt]

Gosh i don't have 3 grand to to capture drums. c414's=overkill. but I'm sure it sounds nice.

[BackBeatBoom]

What continues to amaze me are the angry Butt plugs that slam these free videos.

If ya have such a strong opinion, get some balls and post something better to explain the topic at hand. Let's see it!

[Libsdontcareee]

You can get something close, NOT the same, but close for $200 a pair, and if you know how to EQ, cut freq, mic place, phase adjust, etc, then you will do just fine. I can't believe how bad this video fucking sucks.

[Libsdontcareee]

Yeah, the Bonham sound also required Bonham to be the one playing. Oh, and don't forget NO issues of digital distortion or clipping, it was all TAPE, and, the mics used were more expensive than your car.

Furthermore, this video sucks.

People watching shit like this, like me, do not have akg 414s. You think I would spend $2000 on two mics and then come to youtube for my engineering skills? fuck no. And fuck 414s.

[trikmixing]

@Libsdontcareee i dont think I've ever read a response I like/disliked so much. Why fuck 414s?

[theEddievanhalen]

bidirectional?more like bisexual!

[peterm3964]

PASTIES ARE WHAT STRIPERS SWING OFF THEIR TITS 

[ryan4951]

i like how he says paistey (pay-stee) rather than paiste (pay-st), or am i just saying it wrong?

[ubermicroness]

@ryan4951 pretty sure its pronounced "pie-stee"

[ryan4951]

@ubermicroness kk i wasnt sure :)

[Mundos]

@ryan4951

pie stee

[jalienation]

when you pan, do you pan 100% l/r?

[bestplugins]

@jalienation 99% of times, yes

[Inigobalboa]

@jalienation With X/Y at that distance, you tend to; if your x/y is closer you can pan less than 100%

[longsleeveless]

he said "pays-tee"

[stubkar]

What kind of mic pre are you using on this recording?

[TheLoveinOctoberBand]

Figure 8 = happiness

[AvengedSevenfoldDrum]

its paiste. like PIE-STY.

look on their website.

[14Tobi1995]

may you tell me how to mix audi records with video record ?!

thx

[bomberbadj]

it's "PIE-STEE"....................­........

[hoosier9009]

fucking AKG C414 are like 400 dollars each! FUCK

[dwsabianguy]

@hoosier9009 try a thousand

[SpeedJenga]

@hoosier9009 sorry to make it hurt more C414's run for about a grand each you're thinkin of the C214's they run about 400 that's ur choice when you want the sound but don't need all the patterns

[metalliclark]

were the toms, hi hat, and kick mics on?

[markBG007]

hurry grab one now it only cost 3k USD. lol

[MagicalMysteryTube]

Nice fundamental overview. Thanks for explaining the XY technique.

[supernine456]

So if i get overheads and a bass drum mic, do i need all the other mic's for toms and snare?

[crackmaster88]

obviously you need them. (open air, large indoor space)

[saheltaja]

@supernine456 Well, the so-called 'Bonham-style' miking uses only one overhead approx. two lengths of a stick above the snare and a bass drum mic. You get a nice and very retro mono sound. But if you require more control over the balance, the sound and so on, use more mikes - at least one for the snare.

[rasocomercial]

Great video. I'm guitarrist, but liked so much your job. Thanks from Brazil!

[bitcheznhos]

you are the best drummer of all time ! ! !

[DanielH3342]

Blink damn you! Blink!

[moshfists]

@DanielH3342 No kidding!! This guy is either an animatronic of some kind, or he has two glass eyes. Geez dude, don't worry - you won't lose your place on the script if you blink!

[doveign]

@DanielH3342 lol he blinks twice a minute

[MontgomerySt]

It's Pie-stie, not Pay-stie. Seriously, if you're gonna make a video get your brands name right.

[disturbedrocks992]

Do you need overheads that high? My stands don't go that high.

[maidendethallica]

pastor dave!

[TheProgmagog]

That is not a proper x-y setup. the mics should cross each other at the diaphragms. There is no school of thought that rolls off at 800 Hz to reduce the drum kit. That is done by using mics in conjunction to cause a phase cancillation with the overheads. I never did it cause its over my head, but I know about it. That rolloff sounds like doggy logs. This series should be called how NOT to record drums. OMG I sound hostile:) Just putting on my superman cape and rescuing unsuspecting newbies.

[carfreak213]

what afuckin fag

[zapatero39]

why dont vou blink????

[kk2134]

I hate the way he says "K custom dark ride."

[TheProgmagog]

@kk2134

I like the way he says it. He should sell these cymbals on a late night infomercial. "How much would YOU pay?, but wait! Thats NOT all!" You also get the AMAZING feltch machine at no additional cost:)LOL

[karp47]

@kk2134 haha, i listened to how he said, it, hilarious, i think i hate it too.

[Felipe917]

HAHAHA! 1:06

[TOOFUNKYYY]

He's looking into my soul

[theadorr]

The eq works but you gotta have the whole kit playing at the same time to notice that its cleaner

[paintsaint10]

god his voice is high pitched........

[theddrumdrummer6669]

i don't really like the 500-800 roll off, as i believe it makes the cymbals sound too hollow.

but, to each his own.

[wildmanhawkes]

What does it mean by rolling off. Are eliminating those frequencies?

[rylaniredale]

Thank you for that constructive comment Kables - I guess what I meant to say was I would suggest turning the lower eq up a little so the cymbals don't sound like they're coming threw a radio. But that's just my opinion.

[rylaniredale]

wow.. that cymbal only eq sounds like shit.. paper thin and tinny..

[TheStompbox]

its supposed to be that way.

[jessegimbel]

It's supposed to be thin, it's taking out everything but the higher frequencies for cymbals. You don't use this one its own, you use it along with other mics for kick, snare, toms, whatever else it needs.

[KablesP]

If you knew anything about recording you would know that the only reason it sounds like that is because it should. He wanted to hear the cymbals only and he did, and obviously it would be mixed with the other mic'd drums.

[TheProgmagog]

@KablesP

No it shouldnt. The only time cymbals should sound like they are coming through the radio is, when they are coming through the radio. The overheads should be rolled of at about 100-150 to reduce the low end rumble, but you still want a full warm sound. At least thats the school of thought I am from.

[progjazzfusion]

you can't judge the cyms low rolloff by itself, of course it sounds thin in isolation, but you have to hear it blended IN THE MIX which he does not give you here. Close mics will bring fullness and bass, etc. Once in the mix, you gain more focus and isolation for each drum and cym as they are not all washing out at same freqs. Especially in metal and harder modern rock this is done. I would not do it for jazz...then you want fullrange overheads. SO, it depends on the MIX and the MUSIC STYLE.

[TheProgmagog]

@progjazzfusion

Maybe so. I am a rock-metal artist and producer. Not to say it isnt ever done that way, but I never heard of anyone doing that in any style. (essentially using eq for isolation) I still think the corner will be noticable and warmth missing from the cymbals as the lower frequencies (than 800) are very prominent in rides and heavy crashes. But I admit I never tried it myself. It does seem a bit extreme to do this to me, but to each their own.

[johnmkmu]

@TheProgmagog :::yesyes i completely agree that sounds pretty crazy (roll of at 800 hz?!?) if you want cymbols only -- just mic the cymbols!!! about 6 inches directly above the bell / or try to catch HH/crash with one and ride/crash wi the other. otherwise make damn sure yr ovrs are in phase with snare and kick cause you def need that low end to have full cymbol sound

[purphanz]

don't mic each drum/cymbal

[harrytarlton]

I agree with you BackBeatBoom

[BackBeatBoom]

Terrible? I thought it was useful. It kills me when people provide these grand opinions for everyone.

If it's so terrible show us something better. Step up...

[DrumMasterT]

This is a terrible video for a "how to". C414's are prob the best condenser mics around for recording and live use. Also they cost around £400. This isn't helpful to anyone!

[Helslinky]

worst drummer ever

[drulius]

He's from Switzerland. That's where Paiste cymbals are made.

[drulius]

I met Erik Paiste a few years ago, and he actually pronounces it "pie-stay". But "pie-stee" is close enough, and way better than "pasty"!

[soulsanctuarymusic1]

lol i always thought it was pronouced "paist" or "paste"

[TheStompbox]

i've heard both ways

[theddrumdrummer6669]

good video!

helpful.

im gonna get my hands on them C414s!

[Audiowithalex]

I think if you already have a pair of fucking AKG C414 you would know how to do this shit lol

[PapaKenny777]

HAHAHAHA so true!

[TheCoryography]

@Audiowithalex Hes just geiving an xample with those mics. not that u have to use em lol

[YourADrag]

@Audiowithalex seriously! 

[NeilMan1990]

I REEALLLYYY need some help!!! I'm recording my band over the next 2 days and I am using a Yamaha MW12 CX mixer and Cubase AI 4 Software. Could some PLEEEASSSEE tell me how to recording the drums so that each drum (kick, snare, toms, etc) is on a separate track while I am recording with all the mics miced up.

[PAINTBALL55]

Pretty sure you need Firewire

[happyronbin]

The MW12 will only send a stereo mix to your computer, not separate tracks. you also only have 6 mic tracks, so can't close mic all your drums. What you need to do is get your mix right in the Yamaha mixer before sending it into Cubase. Look up the "Glynn Johns" and "Recorderman" methods - these will help you get a great sounding mix without having to fiddle around too much.

[ArisMetal]

what kind of soundcard do you use?? how many channels your soundcard has??

[28macsl8r]

That EQ you did sounded awful, have you heard of a gate?

[AndThePursuit]

theres no way you can gate your overheads enough to cut out the entire drum kit without it sounding horrible, that eq will work with other mics designated to pick up the isolated instruments ie, snare kick tom etc

[nickeax]

I wish I could just grab two C414s! But good tips, thanks.

[VittorioPetrina]

Open the snare drums.....it sounds too much

dark

[Smafdy]

Nicely produced piece of video but rather un-hip. The guy is kinda goofy and his playing is just lame.

[diwataness]

Isn't Paiste pronounced as "Pie-sty" and not "pasty?"

[Smafdy]

Pasty is so much easier to say. Why work so hard to mispronounce something?

[WelcomeToRapture08]

guess its down to preference, and the results you can get. id like to see some videos on room mics...u dont see much of that

[WelcomeToRapture08]

spaced pair for overheads......wider sound........

[Killenmachine05]

well he has the side facing out at the cymbals set on cardoid i dont know if i spelt that right but i know its direct on so its picking up the 2 individual cymbals directly

[EtcEtcAndEtc]

not necessarily... Try Mid/side just over the drummers head - crazy accurate imaging!

[guitardudy]

your eyes are creapy

[CoveLotuS]

very creapy

[VittorioPetrina]

Maybe it's the drug....:P

[spijtig]

i wouldn't aim my mics too close to the hihat,

always get a bit closer to the ride-side of the kit.

hihat is evil

[xxJonnyCxx]

yea but it sounds so much worse with just cymbols.

Not just because of the lack of drums but it sounds more 'spacey'

[briauc]

thats why i don't like the xy technique. It gets way too much snare and tom bleed. Try hat side and ride side direct. cymbals become much more intament. This is especially good if your doing a lot of bell work or intament high hat stuff.

[drulius]

hope I don't come across as a jerk, but it's "initimate". "Intament" is not a word.

[hollowmedia]

Paiste = Pie-Stee

[drumsforhands]

hahhahahahahaha i play paiste he is dumb

[kickflipindy78]

how to you actualy say it , iv always wondered lol

[drulius]

actually, it's pronounced 'pie-stay'. I met Erik Paiste at a convention and that's how he says it. Of course, 'pie-stee' is much better than 'pasty'!

[tongueboy500]

a lot of people think that cardioid is more directional than hypercardioid because they dont have a rear lobe. If you do the math hypercardioids have the highest off axis rejection, and are more directional than cardioids.

Also the width can easily be adjusted on the XY cardioid config by widening the splay angle, so its a flexible technique that sums well to mono.

[mitool]

Yep - mono compatibility is why I use the XY, no phase problems to overcome.

[thesatsui]

What a queer... useful information though

[goldensleeves]

No he is not !! I know this guy he was pretty cool when I went to the recording workshop in Ohio.

[Bubbles4uk]

look into my eyes, not around the eyes...look into my eyes

[paisteguy799]

logic audio is the best

[subkontra6660]

hey does anyone know any good softwhere for recording?

[Victorwo0ten]

i enjoy cubase

[vance111]

There's heaps man. Most of them usually get the same outcome. ProTools is the industry standard.

[TheWALOS]

It's a bit ironic that only the left channel works in a video that's supposed to be demonstrating a stereo image

[nathanfornash]

Only for the first minute

[maidendethallica]

you sound like paster dave from that 70s show

[Alexfurshur]

lol he so does!!!!!!!!

[carsonbramemr]

Hi, im trying to get started setting up mics on my kit and im not sure how to do it. Like when you connect the mics youll have like 5 XLR cable coming out of the mics, but how do you get those to one cable and onto your computer? what equipment do i need? if anybody could help me it would be great. thanks.

[seventeen17van]

well, you will definitely need a mixer....probably with at least 8 inputs, and then you run that into your computer, either with a firewire cable (for multiple track recording) or you can run an rca cable (red and white) into the line in on the back of your computer. and then audio recording program as well.

thats all i really know. i just got started myself, i found some great deals on ebay for my equipment. but i hope that helps a little bit.

[jamesallan87]

You should have done it with the AKG C 214's, there a bit more affordable lol

[musiccalgary]

Don't you love it when someone takes 4 minutes to give you 1 minute worth of information?

Yawn.

[TotalitarianHypnosis]

This is a good overview but not extremely realistic considering the C414s are well over a thousand dollars.

[groovemessenger2407]

Agreed, plus why hang $1500 worth of LDC mics over the kit only to then roll off everything under 5-800 Hz

[xxxlxt]

Rhymes with feisty

[MascisMan1]

paiste=pie-stee

[thenickanator]

should surely set up a stereo channel rather than pan with a stereo pair? :s

[dazzelya]

Nope, you lose flexibility.

[thenickanator]

well not really since you're gonna want to match the effects on the two anway otherwise its gonna sound like half the kits in a different room lol

[dazzelya]

Again not necessarily. Although you might want to use similar settings for the hipass and possible verb on the overheads (depending which effect you are looking for) eq settings can vary accordingly. Recording it to a stereo track limits you in more ways you might think. I say this as a professional engineer myself.

[thenickanator]

hmm unless your doing something drastic i would still go for a stereo channel the advantages outweigh the cons and tbh its called a 'stereo pair'.....

[dazzelya]

It's common practice buddy. I suggest you read up on it.

[thenickanator]

err i thinik you'll find common practice is in fact setting it as a stereo channel and tbh if you're a techy you'd surely know that 99% of this stuff is personal choice :s

[thenickanator]

you might want to take a bit of your own advice there buddy nice one on assuming you're the only sound tech that'd be watchin a video about recording btw hahaha

[thenickanator]

lol i'm a 20 year old technician nice one again on the arrogance dude

[dazzelya]

Call it arrogance. I call it knowledge, experience and a full time job ;)

Again, I'm out.

[thenickanator]

w/e man we'll have to agree to disagree on this one lol good luck with continuing to fool whoever hired you :)

[thenickanator]

you're an idiot its a stereo pair put in a stereo channel its just basic industry standard get over yourself

[TProjectDemos]

Drums sound not so good.

[dazzelya]

Drums sound fine. Remember you are only listening to the overheads, not to a complete(ly miced) kit.

[psychobollox]

it's an estonian name:

pai -> pie

ste -> steh

anything else is either an anglicisation or a totally fucked up way of saying it.

[metaldrummer66699966]

paiste not paist e