i did respond dont u get it ? everything is inside those sites and this after i addressed Aisha's age when comparing her to Mary again in my earlier reply
Amen! May we, Christians, speak the truth about the glory, deity, crucifixion, saving grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ. No common ground with others except on the ground of Jesus the Architect of History and what is to come. May Jesus be our way to gaining tolerance with everyone.
Beautifully spoken, but more to the point; presenting the Naked Truth to bare witness to the Unique Majesty of the Son of GOD. He ALONE IS WORTHY. GOD bless you John Piper.
For all the people that say Muslims deny Christ's deity and this and that. Don't the Jews do as well but no one talks about that. If you're going to enforce a principle, enforce it 100% of the time or at least a number close to it. There are some commonalities though. e all believe that there is only One God. Whether it is One and Only God, the Greatest God among many others like Baal or a Triune God, it's still one.
@nameonwhitestone The video isn't divisive... The foundational principle's of Islam are opposed to the foundation of our faith in Christ.
The absolute worst sin (unpardonable) in Islam is elevating someone to the level of God. They think Jesus Christ was just a prophet and didn't die on the cross. They think that the New Testament has been for the most part corrupted to deceive people about the nature of Jesus. Muslims believe that Christians are polytheist (worshiping more than one god.)
I haven't followed John Piper's work for years, so I didn't know what his stand was regarding Islam. It's good to see that at least some Christians are not falling for the nonsense that Christianity and Islam teach the same things! I've been horrified to see Christians supporting Islam. It not only teaches the exact opposite of what Christianity teaches in many foundational doctrines, but it also teaches unbelievers should be forcibly converted, subjugated or killed. Cheers to you, John Piper!
@TheFasfas123 I have read the Koran. I know what Islam teaches. It teaches I, as unbeliever, must convert, submit to sharia, or die. I know Mohammad was a warlord who "married" Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9.
@TheFasfas123 I won't waste my time giving you many, since I am sure you will deny whatever I say, but here are a few: 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
@TheFasfas123 4:74 So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory - We will bestow upon him a great reward.
@Yesica1993 ....i guess on what you don't understand with 4:74 and many other such verses is that you don't know translation of Allah....................its GOD..............those who fight in favor of GOD will be rewarded.....the fight must be for good not for evil.......
@TheFasfas123 hadith Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
Also Bukhari, volume 5, #234 which is too long to copy here
@TheFasfas123 What do you mean, what am I trying to say?! Can you not read plain English? Your "prophet" is a child rapist. It is documented there, in the Islamic text itself!
Good grief, I don't know why I'm wasting my time. There it is, in black and white, from ISLAMIC TEXTS and you have the nerve to say, "What are you trying to say?" Goodbye.
@Yesica1993 .....if you want to know i ll explain but as seen from your reply......if ur narrow minded like Anis Shorrosh theres no use , it will be just a waste of time
@Yesica1993 ....LOL ....wats wrong with you.......most of your questions will be easily solved if you just say the word 'GoD" instead of Allah .....also you have to know that GOD only support for those who are right....
@TheFasfas123 What do you continue to blather on about?
Refute the passages I have posted. You cannot. They are there for all to see. Mohammad was a warlord child rapist. It's all there in your own texts, for anyone to see. You cannot provide a defense, because there isn't one for such filth.
@Yesica1993 all the explanation u need that is if u are willing to actually hear or rather read the truth (3w)(dot)muslimaccess(slash)com(slash)quraan(slash)tafseer(slash)tauba(dot)(html) and as for u submitting who cares "to you your religion and to me be mine " "there is no compulsion in religion " and before u pull the abrogation card here: publications(dot)islamkashmir(dot)org(slash)naskh-or-abrogation-of-verses
@Yesica1993 are u kidding me right now are incapable of copy pasting the sites i gave u and changing (dot) ? is that too much to as ? i mean im in no mood to join a copy pasting challenge knowledge is for u to seek not me and did u read all my replies i gave u evidence with articles as proof and now before replying again READ the articles
@Yesica1993 how old was Mary when she married Joseph huh ? 12 and he was 90 !!! for god"s sake stp with the double standards dont u know that maturity difeffers between now and 1400 years ago !!! not to mention people used to day young in fact 60 or so was the average not forget Aisha was pivotal for islam she is called "Mother of the believers " and visit Wikipedia they have a good article on her with enough citations
@TheFasfas123 Hey I hate to break to ya but your Koran is a cheap knock to the Gnostic Bible. You see, your "prophet" actually got the koran not from Archangel Gabriel,but Gnostic heretics that were escaping persecution from the Orthodox Christians in Byzantine Empire who manage to make their way to Mecca, in fact that was only form of "Christianity" that was in Mecca at time. Also I read your "holy book" and looked back at the Gnostic bible, it does have traces of Gnostic in it.
Using a picture in a school yr book is an unfortunate example as there is no picture of what Jesus looked like. Perhaps semitic is too vague. Of course true Christians don't want war but war is being perpetrated by nations. Some say it's war in the name of terror and others say it's really religous denomination. It disgusts me when people r stoned to death for seemingly frivolous reasons but it is also morally culpable for Texas to inject poison into the veins of prisoners but for better reasons
@2036asteroid His example isn't about what Jesus looked like. He's saying when we talk about certain aspects that the God of the Bible and the god of Islam may have in common it might appear as though we are basically the same or at least quite similar, but when you really look at what they believe and what we as believe, especially about the Godhead, Jesus as the perfect God-man, and His propitiatory death on the cross, and resurrection.
if i heard Piper right, he said that Muslims cannot have knowledge of the true God like that of Christians...if that's the case, then how would we account Romans 1?...all people know the true God either Muslims or Christians...it is exactly this knowledge that non-Christians deny...man apart from Jesus sins against his better knowledge of the true God through his reason and philosophical formulation...
@24arcel Man naturally knows about God through the revelation of creation, but Piper's point is that we can't come together with Muslims in worship because they deny the perfect revelation of God in that they deny the deity of Christ, and His sacrifice for the sin's of the world... meaning that they do indeed worship a different god.
this video emphasized the unique distinction of Christianity and that is worthy of appreciation...however, watching this video leads me to think that there is nothing in common between Muslims and Christians...both similarity and distinction must be maintained to avoid confusion and arrogance...ours is humility for it is only grace that makes the difference between us and them...
Don't you beleive it is okay to share a love of God and a dialouge about God (even if that dialouge is respectful debate) but at the same time disagree about the nature of God?
This is the solid, true Gospel (thanks John Piper)- Muslims, repent & believe, God's forgiveness is offered only in Christ- His holiness will burn up all your good deeds/deen on the last day because justification can only come through Him, and the way He has provided, Christ crucified & risen. Its historical fact- repent of your sins & believe that in Christ you will be forgiven and given a new heart- THIS IS THE GOSPEL people.
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
Jesus didn't want to die, He HAD to die, to save you and me from eternal damnation. He loved us so much that He did this for us!! We, do not deserve His grace but He did it out of a Godly love for us. He is righteous and true. The only true God. Without Jesus, we would all be doomed. Now with Him we only need to accept Him as our saveiour. Thank you Jesus!
Jesus DIDNT DIE he was saved by God the real God who sent Jesus Moses Ibraham and Mohamed to remind ppl and its ppl who CLAIMED and changed the Truth everyone appreciate Jesus and respect him but as a human prophet not GOD !!
coz God is not similar or could be even compared to his human and NOONE can save my except me and my deeds if its good or bad
and there is a question if u killed someone will blame jesus and say wtever he is gonna save me!!! its u who is responsible 4 ur deeds no1 else
We're all sinners. For all have come short of the glory of God. Also:
you were talking about the Shema
"Hear o Israel the Lord our God is One"
well there's a book called the Zohar which is a commentary on the Torah written before jesus that makes this comment on that Very Scripture."Hear, O Israel, Adonai Eloheinu Adonai is one. These three are one. How can the three Names be one? Only through the perception of faith; in the vision of the Holy Spirit, in the beholding of the hidden eye alone.
"Say 'He is God "Allah in arabic", The One and Only. Allah. the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Jesus died, indeed, and he rose up from the dead in the third day. He claimed to be the Messiah, witch is the "Father of eternity" and would rule forever (Isaiah 9:6-7), a thing that only God himself can accomplish.
The other interesting thing is Koran talks about Jesus' Injil, witch comes from evangelion, the good news, and those good news are the definitive forgiveness in Jesus Christ for those who seek the righteousness of God. It's the new alliance (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
Christianity as dictated through the Holy Bible teaches that Jesus (as quoted by himself) was the son of man, son of god, i am a christian, but i do not believe he is god incarnate ... your deeds cannot save you from damnation, because you have sinned before and broke a commandment at some point, Bible says: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), there for "God so loved the world that he sent his son so thet he who believes in him shall not perish but have life".
Jesus never said im God ..!! also he is NOT a son of God ..he is a messanger and chosen from God to wake his people up and covey a message that God is ONE... but as usual they shifted and lie on him to direct people from submitting to the only God to worship a human beying..
@Nado626 Jesus did not have to say "I am God"; he made it abundantly clear in his actions, which included Specific miracles like walking on water, that he intended to specifically communicate that he was God; the Bible says in Isaiah that only GOD treads on the waves of the sea -- Jesus made a profound statement of being God by walking on water. There are dozens upon dozens of examples like this.
just clear your mind and think... why jesus "as u think he is God" could die!! why he just didn kill those who tortured him with just one glance cause if he was God or the creator, then he cannot be killed by his creation it doesnt make any sense!!
and as for walkin on water those are miracles we muslim read it and know it coz its in Qur;an u can read sura MARY in Qur;an it will tell u the whole story of Mary and jesus.
@Nado626 Jesus was crucified by His Father's design, in the form of a man, because only a man could atone for the sins of mankind. You're right, it doesn't make any sense! But that's God's design- 'His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts'. Repent & believe that Christ died for your sins. Without the blood of Jesus covering your soul, you will never have forgiveness from the Father and will face Christ's wrath on that day, it is written...
Thnx for the explanation, now i can kill my jerk co worker he really irritates me!! u said all my sins are clear and Jesus died for my sins!!! oooh plzzzzzzzz
we muslim luv jesus and respect him as a prophet and a word from God with no father and he has nothing to do wiz wtever u guys saying about him
@Nado626 All I have to say is repent & believe. God wants you to know Him intimately and only through Christ can you know your Creator. Religious knowledge will not get you into Heaven. If you knew how HOLY & righteous God truly is, you would realise that nothing you can do can atone for your sins- someone had to die for you to be forgiven. Thats the Gospel- please believe it & be saved
Gods wrath or Christs wrath? On the day of Judgement will Christ judge me or the father, or will they both get together and talk it out - wait they are ONE? Does God create a universe then enter it and is bounded by time and space? the limitless god restricts himself to the laws of his own universe he created? Or does he make a son or is the son really him but he calls him Son but this son is a human coming out of of the womb like me and you? Also goes to the washroom? God? wat?
@furnis1 You have alot of questions man...in the Bible we are told that those who aren't born of the Spirit can't understand the things of the Spirit. This has proved true bcos I thought most Biblical stuff was foolish & contradictory until I was born again by conviction through the Gospel. John Piper and other guys have alot of knowledge, but trust me they don't have the power to make you see God clearly, and until you're born again there is no way you can possibly understand the Trinity
@UnrealHelix thanks, thats cool. here is a simple question - You think you can point to me to a reference of the word and definition of "trinity" in the bible - so that I can see what it means?
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Being a latterly applied theological term, there's obviously no mention of the word Trinity in the Bible, but I think the above scripture speaks for itself.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Being a latterly applied theological term, there's obviously no mention of the word 'Trinity' in the Bible, but I think the above scripture speaks for itself.
@furnis1 If I may join in. Here are some references for you.
The Old Testament does not explicitly describe God as a trinity. Rather, with its references to God's Spirit (e.g., Gen. 1:2), its use of “us/our” for God (e.g., Gen. 1:26), and its indications or hints of a divine Messiah (e.g., Ps. 110:5; Isa. 9:6; cf. Ezek. 34:15, 23), it lays the groundwork for the fuller declaration of divine triunity that is found in the New Testament (Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 12:4–6; 2 Cor. 13:14).
@furnis1 Rhetorical questions will not lead you to know him, especially if they are already rooted in disbelief. Ask these questions from your heart, and open yourself to the mere "possibility" that God is alive and will answer your legitimate questions. This is what I did a few years ago, and sure enough my questions were answered explicitly by God, to my heart. It convinced me so fully that Christ, the Son of God, rose from the dead that I have committed my life to him.
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
@Nado626 Jesus DID in fact also answer specifically that he was God, when asked by Pilate before his crucifixion: Matthew 26:63-64 "...The high priest said to him [(Jesus)], 'I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.' 'Yes, it is as you say,' Jesus replied." Can't get much more clear than that.
@MatthewMcIntyre321 One slight minor correction -- Pilate of course was the Roman Governor -- as the passage makes clear, it was the high priest that asked Jesus if he was "the Son of God" (thus meaning God himself -- Son of God = God incarnate, God in the personage of Christ).
the new testament is a more historically reliable account of jesus' life than the Quran because it matches eyewitness accounts of Jesus' resurrection months after he died, and they were written a couple of years after his death. Legends can't wipe out a chunk of history in a few months. Islam contradicts history and the gospel and makes claims about Jesus 600 years after his death. That's like me opening my history book and changing 15th century's history..
Muslims DO NOT reject jesus peace be upon him they reject the idea of Jesus beying god .. its only one God who created Jesus Moses Adam Mohamed me and you
Jesus is not a son of God as God has no sons or daughters and he is not in a compare to his creatures
how can a god get killed by his own creations!!!
in deuteronomy 6:4 it said "our God our Lord is ONE"
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This is a disgrace. John piper is promoting a kind of religious phobia or bias. He is sounding like an Islamic fundamentalist who will not hear anything but his own beliefs. Common ground means they begin at the same point of god openness. You don't come to a table of spiritual reconciliation fighting for YOUR position. You have to start at a common ground and if you disagree you disagree. Don't be afraid to talk peacefully. Classic conservative christian fundamentalist. Phobics.
Christ is the centre to Christian faith and its meant to be a centre in Christian Life. Without Christ as being the fundemental source of Life, love, justice you don't have true Christianity. Christianity is All about Christ.
Dave, you should listen from 7:20 to about 7:48. You've completely mischaracterized what John piper is trying to convey. Christians and Muslims should definitely have open and "peaceful" discussions about their respective conceptions of God, but that's not the point. The point is that the Christian doctrine and Islamic doctrine are at complete variance with one another with respect to their beliefs about God, more specifically Jesus.
Sure both religions share common ground in that they believe in the supernatural, but both have different conceptions as to the properties and attributes of god. The point John Piper is making is that we should not use convoluted language to pretend that Christianity and Islam are essentially the same, which is clearly is not. However, we should definitely encourage open, "honest," and truthful discussion about the differences and validity of the two.
Sad that all Muslims are going to hell, maybe if they looked at their ridiculously flawed and irrational religion theyd do the right thing and research other religions and see christianity is the correct religion.
first of all, Christianity is not a "religion." It is to be a relationship with God through Jesus where we work every day to live out the example that Jesus' life gave us. Every judgemental statement that "we" as Christians utter is a slap in the face of everything Jesus taught us
Jesus said: "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). So Jesus himself said for us to judge righteously...
Also he said judge not less ye be judged meaning if you are sinning that sin dont judge another sinner of that sin (I am not a muslim so i can judge em), so its fine to judge according to the bible and Jesus, if tis righteous judgement.
actually, judge not lest ye be judged has nothing to do with how you put it...that's totally out of context. What it means is that we are not to judge others because we are equally guilty of sin...sin is sin...whether we lie or whether we kill someone. God sees no difference. God is the judge, not us. Our duty here is to love as Jesus loved...he does not call us to be judges. Before taking the speck out of someone else's eye take the log out of your own...don't forget that verse, either
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a matter of resting from your work and your effort to do what Jesus did. Jesus came to show us we are incapable of doing what he did; Living a perfectly righteous life. No amount of effort to "live" his example will result in anything more than failure on your part. It is impossible for you to accomplish. It took a Divine Savior to do for you and for me what we were unable to do for ourselves. Working every day is only going to get you closer to hell. Eph.2:8-10.
I don't know much about John Piper. I commend this guy for speaking out for what he believes here. Some Christians are wishy washy and sit on the fence. Like he says, 'BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU LEND YOUR SUPPORT TO'!
PRAISE God. We must pray for clear discernment. Many angels of light abound with messages of love & tolerance.
When will we realize that satan nevers comes in our thoughts or hearts as satan? He always uses a disguise.
Christ is our Big Brother. (Hebrews 2:11) What must a thief do before robbing us of our treasure? He must create distractions, divert our attention away from Brother - convince us we are safe w/out Him. The thief is a strong man, but he knows our Brother is stronger.
I love Muslim people - their children play with mine at parks & this is a beautiful experience. As Piper says, I certainly wish them no harm. Christ said, "He who lives by the sword dies by it."
But if the only way to ensure peace is by denying the complete & absolute LORDSHIP of Yeshua, Jesus Christ - that is not a treasure worth having, but fool's gold. And only a fool would have it.
Piper's analogy to the yearbook picture is excellent. There is only one truth. And it is written in red.
@fruitofspirit Very good reply. I think it draws a beautiful picture that your children play with Muslim children in the parks. This is the simplicity of love as Christ taught it. And you are sooooo right about the true treasure of knowing Christ as the complete and absolute Son of God. Thanks for sharing your heart publicly.
do not trust the religious as most are wolves in sheeps clothing but in the case of muslims they are wolves outright so how can they be trusted moreso?
I would agree with the statement that Yahweh is completely different that Allah. And the idea that we can find a credible common ground between them is lunacy. Jesus is Yahweh, Jesus is God and to dance around that statement in fear of losing a potential connection with Islam is flawed. In any situation, we must establish Jesus as first importance and let everything mediate through Him. Inevitably the goal of the Christian response to "A Common Word" has to missional, not just conversational.
seems to me, Piper missed the point. A common word is intended to establish grounds for discussing the truths of Christianity/Islam amidst enmity. The two arecertainly very different religions, but document was not meant to be a pulpit for preaching Christ - Christ himself taught through relationships, not by posting documents on temple walls. I usually like Piper... but I think he missed the forest for the trees...
why did this guy John Piper not organise his convention or common word here you have rightious people in the world trying atlease trying to get heart to together and the last thing we need is his comments or wining honest sorry to say that but it hurt when people are trying its the beginning of a good cause support it let it grow instead you putting your two senses on youtube i gues thats why your on youtube and not on stage with them cause they are making a change not you its blessed be the
The fact is, We Christians don't want change, conformity, or universality. Christianity is different than Islam. If we say that we should come together, that nullifies both Islam and Christianity because then we would be saying that there is no absolute truth. Yes, we should be open to discussion, but my God, the Christian God, Yahweh, is totally different than Allah. Our salvation is totally different as well. There is no common word, and we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking there is.
Have it Yahweh jkyleb . There are as many Gods as civilisations . It is a natural Human response to create a mythology in order explain the gaps in our Knowledge. The problem arises when you try to marry ancient belief systems to modern Science. You can only present biblical accounts as allegories of the widest order to be credible. The fundamentalist viewpoint has been clearly destroyed by the evidence available. Perhaps the idea that truth is absolute is a problem too
Thats why you choose the religion that sounds the most convincing. Rather than gamble with atheism. It sounds over simplified I know, but deep down you must know that you are taking a huge risk.
There is one difference between secular humanitarianism and christian missionary work, it is the gospel. they both do social programs, but the christian does it one step further he preaches to the masses,because he/she wants them to have an opportunity to be saved. its much heinous, if the christian kept the goodnews to himself, rather than sharing it, secular workers however, prioritize on doing good works in the name of democracy or human rights
greetings! I have brought good news! We have science and learning now , which has convincingly consigned religious superstition to the dustbin of medieval falsehood. You no longer have to consider priests as wearing the badge of honour. Rather, question their assertions and ask them to provide some evidence or be still. Dont let them tell you you can cheat death. You cannot.Put them in the same box as tarot cards , astrologers , mediums , republicans and amways salesmen. RUBBISH.
Thats why you choose the religion that sounds the most convincing. Rather than gamble with atheism. It sounds over simplified I know, but deep down you must know that you are taking a huge risk.
I suggest that most people adhere to the religion that is prevalent in the place they grew up. Born in Kansas? Likely to be Christian. Tibet? Buddha your man. England? you worship the Rain God.
Risk what? Damnation? Only if you are right. Which you aren`t. If I said Frankie the giant Penguin will judge you when you die , would you worry? You are peddling the same idea with the same lack of evidence and same credibility. Dont mean to be mean, but, pull the other one.
Now I see your second point in which you do address what I said. 1st of all, there are probably more real Christians in Asia now than in Atheist Europe and Materialistic America (despite persecution of protestantism in China) So I disagree with your first point.
Secondly I see you are attributing the same likelihood of deity to a made up entity (frankie the giant penguin) than to a historical figure, Jesus. Keep setting up that straw man and knocking him down. Shows how weak ur argument is.
I am only saying that it is within your ability to assess the different religions, research them and find which one sounds most credible (I would advise you that Frankie the giant penguin would fall on the low end of that scale). If you don't choose a religion, you are risking eternity. If I am wrong I still had a very fulfilled life and I my life ends at death, oh well. Have you truely researched Christianity (and not just from hypocritical messages and messengers)?
Jesus may well have been a historical figure friend , but all the supernatural events attributed to him have no credible evidence to back them up , and if you think they do , dont become a lawyer or a scientist. If you tell me , in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary , that the Biblical creation account is accurate , that you will live after you die , that Evolution is somehow wrong , that man was created whole etc etc then you and Frankie are on the same page. No straw man pal
Besides , I have worked on the door of a few clubs so St Peter will let me in. It is the code between Doormen. Even though I think the owner is horrible and has some weird ideas , it does have a bar right? How can it be heaven with no beer? And roads with no speed limits? Blues music? Surely no children pissing everyone off? WHAT ? you dont have a single plumber? Actually not surprised.
All I'm saying is that the likelihood of the Jesus being who the Bible says he is high taking into account many factors including prophecy (for example psalm 22...specifically vs. 16 which is my favorite example of amazing prophecy)the fact that the disciples and apostles who spent so much time with him all died excruiating horrible deaths for not denying his deity (why would they endure torture for a lie?) the way that this religion has stood the test of time and the cohesion of scripture etc..
You keep bringing up evolution, well let me ask you a question: Why would God create the world looking brand new (since evolution points to an old universe)? Isn't it logical to think that since he created adam as a fully mature man and not a baby, that he would create the earth as he wanted to, even with the appearance of age? Now you may reject that point but the point is that it's all how you look at it. Again I reject your strawman since you compared the likelihood of Jesus to a penguin.
You can invent all kinds of fanciful theories about how everything that is , came to be.
Scientists are quite happy to say "WE DONT KNOW" on the basis that IT IS THE TRUTH. And filling the gaps in our knowledge with crappy bronze age stories that are in complete contrast with the evidence available to us is ok if you are an aborigine , but if you are an educated westerner , it is slapping the face of all those brilliant scientists who fought hard to free us from religious dogma.
You didnt address my theory of God making the world as it is (not as a brand new looking earth, whatever that would have looked like). Yes that is a convenient theory because it fits in with my world view,but after studying theology, history, biblical prophecy, etc. I can comfortably embrace Christianity. I would never dream of even thinking about adopting an atheistic worldview. What a risk to take, and either way my life is very fulfilling as a Bible believing Christian. better hope ur right.
What , god said " I will create the Earth complete with all the evidence to suggest that I DIDN`T so people will conclude that I don`t exist Ahhahahaha what a trickster I am. Lets put all these fossils here and see who believes in me now!" Convenient? You said it buddy. I am losing the will to live...
If that is the best you can come up with then good luck and keep away from sharp objects.
God should have made Adam as a zygote according to you. Then he wouldn't be "tricking" anyone. Ill accept ur criticism of my theory when u tell me how it would be possible to create a world made of material that appeared to be 0 years old. wow really smart theory there. keep insulting me,thats all atheists resort to.they like setting up strawmen arguments saying things like"sky daddy" so it makes them feel smart.If I'm right, I'll be right for eternity, you for 50 years till u die. (or whenever)
According to me , ( and most of the nobel prize winning biologists , who you dismiss in such a cavalier way in favour of people like Macarthur who has 1% of their brains) God didn`t make Adam. Adam is mythical character in a book and God is a concept Mankind invented to explain gaps in Human Knowledge. There are thousands of them in Human Culture. You just happen to believe in one of them.
I dont believe God created the world is my answer to your "Theory". I thought that was obvious?
Al Gore and Paul Krugman are also nobel prize winners. Doesn't say much. There are tens of thousands of Bible believing scientists, and many of the most famous scientists in history believed in the God of the Bible. Many religions were made up by man, I believe Christianity is the most convincing example of one that was not.You cannot ignore the prophecy and so many other examples I've already said that point to its validity.Your arguments are not even close to convincing (don't mean to be rude)
I will bet you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Nobel prize winning scientists who share you fundamentalist view.
You find me an eminent geologist who believes the world is 3 minutes old , or whatever claptrap goes on in Macarthurland. Or a top paleontologist who thinks dinosaurs coexisted with man. yeah right! ps All religions were made up by men , except shopping , which was created by women.
Well your bet enforces my view that you should not be betting on things (such as God not existing), because you most definitely lose this bet on the nobel prize winners. (triple w)(dot)adherents(dot)com(slash)people(slash)100(underscore)Nobel(dot)html
On the list of the 30 Nobel laureates for science, how many are fundamentalists? The first one listed is Einstein who definitely was not andis often misquoted by people who have a religious agenda in order to try and support their ideas with scientific credibility. I bet if you ask All of those people they would say the Earth is 4.5 Billion years old. I am not suggesting that no scientist believes in a creator , but 99.9of them will tell you that Adam and Eve is a story .
If ur definition of fundamentalist is that u believe in Jesus's death and resurrection to save us from our sins then a good portion of the list would b "fundamentalist".Ill leave you with a quote from Max Planck,a Christian and the father of quantum physics:Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words:'Ye must have faith.'It is a quality which the scientist cannot dispense with.
but why do scientists exist? they are researchers who ceaselessly find laws and facts about nature and how things work. For all of time, as we know it, scientists have been trying to get their minds around how things work. but really, they have never concluded their work. there is just so many things to observe and learn and discover. So how can that be? that a world "evolved" from nothing, not created, can be so immense and unmeasurable?
You got me joomyo . Know one knows , which is why John Macarthur can sell some people a line. Mr Sticky my interpretation of the word Fundamentalist would be someone who sees no room for metaphor or allegory in the Bible and takes everything literally. The Garden of Eden had flower beds and a compost heap , complete with a talking serpent. Noah really pulled of an incredible feat of Marine Engineering and fedex`d some Kangaroos over from Australia. "Faith" does not mean taking a simpleton view
"Sell some people a line"? Try again. Atheists are the biggest line givers of all time "I don't believe in a giant penguin either". Wow what a stellar argument, that really bamboozled me.
It is my witty and charming way of suggesting that because I cannot disprove your contention that there is a God , then your idea has validity , which is a logical fallacy. You cannot disprove the Penguin either , which also has no evidence to support its existence. Sorry to bamboozle you sticky! No harm intended....
I know you think it's witty and charming, but seriously it's an amateurish and weak argument that alot of atheists resort to. Classic strawman, we've been down that road already. The probablility of the God of the Bible exisiting and the all powerfull giant penguin are not equal. There is no DNA evidence for the existance of God or the giant penguin true. But to incessantly try to portray them both as equal in terms of probablity is frankly retarded, and below your level of thinking.
I know you never cited Einstein . I was just using him as another example of a scientist who is misrepresented by people with a religious agenda , and I was using the penguin example to demonstrate your logical fallacy in suggesting that as I can`t disprove God , you somehow claim that believing in him is justified. It is only my opinion that the penguin is about as likely as a flying pig , or Jehovah. No-one has been able to give me anything tangible to make me think otherwise.
It consitently amazes me how atheists can be so knowledgeable about the concept of cause and effect, and yet deny there is a God. And we who believe in the Bible are the "simpletons". Scientists have been working overtime for thousands of years trying to decode the laws of the universe. So who coded it? Max Planck the founder of quantam physics echoed these sentiments. I guess you'll conveniently rule out the concept of cause and effect which you cited before.
Tens of thousands?! Bullshit. Where did you get that information from? You're completely making things up here. As science has advanced over the course of history, so has the proportion of scientists who reject the Bible. Is Judaism made up then? What about Zoroastrianism or Mithraism? Ultimately, Christianity incorporates all of these.
Judaism incorporates the Torah which is the first 5 books of the Bible, but then it digresses into the classic relgion of "get to heaven if you are a "good person"" which I reject on many different grounds. Zora'ism and mith'ism are complete bull compared to the Christianity's compellingness. Christianity may have hints or similarties here and there, but when it comes to God himself (the perfect being) sacrificing himself for the sins of mankind, there is only 1 religion to choose from.
So was Jesus of David's lineage or was he of God's? The Bible indicates both. He has to be of David's to fulfill prophecy of the OT, but then if that is the case he is born with original sin, which kind of negates the whole sinless life idea. So which is it? Also, if God is perfect, why does he have such an attitude adjustment from the OT to the NT? Perfection needs no change, right?
Jesus was both fully man and fully God at the same time. He limited himself in submission to the Father in terms of what power he used and when while he was on the earth. So while he came from the line of David, he was also born of a virgin. It is an excellent question. As for how God acted in the old testament vs. the new, this is a very broad issue with many differnt points and one that shouldn't be confined to a youtube comment box. I would suggest googling "Dispensationalism".
How can he be born of a virgin and still be of the lineage of David (a human)? That makes no sense whatsoever. And if he is both fully god and fully human, why does he in one gospel ask, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Is he talking to himself?
He is in the Lineage through Mary.Mary was the daughter of Heli, who was the son of Matthat, who was the son of Levi, and so on back to David. There r other women besides Mary who were in the lineage as well.
Just like the trinity makes no sense right? Also being able to predict in Psalms that Jesus would be crucified (Romany style) before that was even invented makes no sense either. I'll tell you what definitely wouldn't make sense, would be for Jesus discples to undergo torture for a lie.
In both Matthew and Luke Jesus's lineage to David is through Joseph. And in Luke 3:23 it lists Joseph as the son of Heli. Mary and Joseph, brother and sister? In Psalms 22:16 it only makes reference to piercing hands and feet and does not specify any particular style of crucifixion. 1+1+1=1? Christian math? Lastly, are you suggesting that people of other 'false' religions don't endure torture, maiming and death in the name of that religion? It happens all the time. Terrible argument there.
Joseph was the husband of Mary, therefore Jesus was in the line of david. As for Psalm 22, you have got to be kidding me. First of all 22:16 is only one verse in the chapter that makes clear reference to the cruxifixion of Christ. Look at vs. 1,7,14,15,16,17,18,31. Open your eyes, this is obviously not King David speaking about himself. David never had his enemies pierce his hands and feet. They never cast lots for his clothing as he was mocked. It is the account of the crucifixion foretold.
No, it says that Joseph is the son of Jacob in Matt. and of Heli in Luke (which is correct?). That's what it says. And it doesn't say son in law. It says this in two places. Is this another instance where I should 'open my mind' and create new meanings out of very simple statements?
There are discrepcies throughout the two lists and they are different because Luke is written from Nathan (son of David) and Matthew from Solomon (also son of David. In regards to Jospeph's father, it was Jacob. Heli or Eli was the father of Mary (and father in law of Joseph). So in this case you just need to do a little homework, this was a good question.
I would seriously encourage you to read that chapter (psalm 22) with an open mind in its entirity and think about how those verses could not be from David's experience. Of course those from false religions endure torture. But I guarentee you they wouldn't if they KNEW it was all a big lie. The disciples witnessed and wrote about their time with Jesus and all the miracles they witnessed. They were tortured and killed for not recanting what they had seen and heard. Your cite a false comparison.
So read psalm 22 with lots of imagination then? Sure. There's still no specific reference to crucifixion. Why isn't the crown of thorns mentioned? The disciples wrote? Read Acts 4:13. Peter and John were illiterate as were most if not all of the disciples, as they were common men who had no need for writing or reading for that matter. You're confusing knowledge with belief. People may suffer for what they think is true whether it is true or not. The disciples were no different.
Matt'w was a tax collector,Luke a physcician John a fisherman,Mark unknown although is known 2 have used a scribe to record the gospels.Again u r ignoring that the account in Psalm 22 would b lunacy 2 attribute 2 King David. r u going to ingore all the other verses I pointed out that:1.couldnt have been David and 2.describe the crucifixion?At this point the conversation is discouraging cuz I feel u r more concerned with winning an argument than dealing with the objection in a forthright manner.
I know there is no winning this argument. You will have a convoluted explanation for just about any of the discrepancies. I guess I'm just curious to see how convoluted they get. I've read the other verses you pointed out and it's quite a bit of poetic imagery, but no real description of the crucifixion unless you start inventing a subtext and reading things into it in the light of the NT.
I literally dont know how u can read Psalm 22 and not see a suffering savior (couldn't be David). The New Testement is constantly referring back 2 the psalms as prophecying what was 2 come, and in this case it was so utterly compelling to me (casting lots,pierced hands and feet, mocking/hurling insults, band of evil men encircle me, bones out of joint which is what happens as you hang on the cross, dire thirst, people stare and gloat over me etc). I guess its agree to disagree time now. Cheers.
Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I appreciate you not doing any name calling or making personal attacks. I've been in other discussions along these same lines and that kind of thing always seems to be involved. All the best!
Rick warren preached on a muslim conference, he said lets put our differences aside, the difference is JESUS, what happened John Piper?
yesoqueesbrother 3 hours ago
@Yesica1993
i did respond dont u get it ? everything is inside those sites and this after i addressed Aisha's age when comparing her to Mary again in my earlier reply
TheJack1452 1 month ago
Amen! May we, Christians, speak the truth about the glory, deity, crucifixion, saving grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ. No common ground with others except on the ground of Jesus the Architect of History and what is to come. May Jesus be our way to gaining tolerance with everyone.
aclp003 5 months ago
Beautifully spoken, but more to the point; presenting the Naked Truth to bare witness to the Unique Majesty of the Son of GOD. He ALONE IS WORTHY. GOD bless you John Piper.
For His Glory!!!
forhisglory700 5 months ago
God bless john piper for standing up to the truth!!!
patriciacarrasco 5 months ago
For all the people that say Muslims deny Christ's deity and this and that. Don't the Jews do as well but no one talks about that. If you're going to enforce a principle, enforce it 100% of the time or at least a number close to it. There are some commonalities though. e all believe that there is only One God. Whether it is One and Only God, the Greatest God among many others like Baal or a Triune God, it's still one.
ultimatemaijn 6 months ago
@ultimatemaijn .....Well Said...
TheFasfas123 4 months ago
@nameonwhitestone The video isn't divisive... The foundational principle's of Islam are opposed to the foundation of our faith in Christ.
The absolute worst sin (unpardonable) in Islam is elevating someone to the level of God. They think Jesus Christ was just a prophet and didn't die on the cross. They think that the New Testament has been for the most part corrupted to deceive people about the nature of Jesus. Muslims believe that Christians are polytheist (worshiping more than one god.)
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
Wow can't believe people still believe in the stupid magic
canbuyu 7 months ago
I thought it was 300 clerics? Huh...oh well.
Yeshua9000 10 months ago
I haven't followed John Piper's work for years, so I didn't know what his stand was regarding Islam. It's good to see that at least some Christians are not falling for the nonsense that Christianity and Islam teach the same things! I've been horrified to see Christians supporting Islam. It not only teaches the exact opposite of what Christianity teaches in many foundational doctrines, but it also teaches unbelievers should be forcibly converted, subjugated or killed. Cheers to you, John Piper!
Yesica1993 11 months ago 8
@Yesica1993 ..... pls don't lie about what Islam teaches, if you don know you can ask ......
TheFasfas123 4 months ago
@TheFasfas123 I have read the Koran. I know what Islam teaches. It teaches I, as unbeliever, must convert, submit to sharia, or die. I know Mohammad was a warlord who "married" Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9.
I WILL NOT SUBMIT.
Yesica1993 4 months ago
@Yesica1993 .......present me the verse in quran which proves what you say.....
TheFasfas123 4 months ago
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@TheFasfas123 I won't waste my time giving you many, since I am sure you will deny whatever I say, but here are a few: 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Yesica1993 4 months ago
@TheFasfas123 4:74 So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory - We will bestow upon him a great reward.
Yesica1993 4 months ago
@Yesica1993 ....i guess on what you don't understand with 4:74 and many other such verses is that you don't know translation of Allah....................its GOD..............those who fight in favor of GOD will be rewarded.....the fight must be for good not for evil.......
TheFasfas123 4 months ago 4
@TheFasfas123 hadith Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
Also Bukhari, volume 5, #234 which is too long to copy here
Yesica1993 4 months ago
@Yesica1993 .....what are you trying to say by ........hadith Bukhari vol. 7, #65
TheFasfas123 4 months ago
@TheFasfas123 What do you mean, what am I trying to say?! Can you not read plain English? Your "prophet" is a child rapist. It is documented there, in the Islamic text itself!
Good grief, I don't know why I'm wasting my time. There it is, in black and white, from ISLAMIC TEXTS and you have the nerve to say, "What are you trying to say?" Goodbye.
Yesica1993 4 months ago
@Yesica1993 .....if you want to know i ll explain but as seen from your reply......if ur narrow minded like Anis Shorrosh theres no use , it will be just a waste of time
TheFasfas123 4 months ago
@TheFasfas123 Incoherent nonsense.
The verses from your ideology are posted for all to see. You cannot refute them and you know it.
I will not submit!
Yesica1993 4 months ago
@Yesica1993 ....LOL ....wats wrong with you.......most of your questions will be easily solved if you just say the word 'GoD" instead of Allah .....also you have to know that GOD only support for those who are right....
TheFasfas123 4 months ago
@TheFasfas123 What do you continue to blather on about?
Refute the passages I have posted. You cannot. They are there for all to see. Mohammad was a warlord child rapist. It's all there in your own texts, for anyone to see. You cannot provide a defense, because there isn't one for such filth.
I WILL NOT SUBMIT. Do you hear me?
Yesica1993 4 months ago
@Yesica1993 ......y r you keeping on changing the subject .......pls do not lie abt Mohammed (pbuh)......
i did not ask you to submit then y do you keep on saying i will not submit.....you submit or not wats it to do with me
TheFasfas123 4 months ago
@Yesica1993 all the explanation u need that is if u are willing to actually hear or rather read the truth (3w)(dot)muslimaccess(slash)com(slash)quraan(slash)tafseer(slash)tauba(dot)(html) and as for u submitting who cares "to you your religion and to me be mine " "there is no compulsion in religion " and before u pull the abrogation card here: publications(dot)islamkashmir(dot)org(slash)naskh-or-abrogation-of-verses
TheJack1452 1 month ago
@TheJack1452 I have given plenty of verses. Address them, and spare me this incomprehensible gibberish.
Yesica1993 1 month ago
@Yesica1993 are u kidding me right now are incapable of copy pasting the sites i gave u and changing (dot) ? is that too much to as ? i mean im in no mood to join a copy pasting challenge knowledge is for u to seek not me and did u read all my replies i gave u evidence with articles as proof and now before replying again READ the articles
TheJack1452 1 month ago
@TheJack1452 Address the verses I have given.
Yesica1993 1 month ago
@Yesica1993 how old was Mary when she married Joseph huh ? 12 and he was 90 !!! for god"s sake stp with the double standards dont u know that maturity difeffers between now and 1400 years ago !!! not to mention people used to day young in fact 60 or so was the average not forget Aisha was pivotal for islam she is called "Mother of the believers " and visit Wikipedia they have a good article on her with enough citations
TheJack1452 1 month ago
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@TheFasfas123 Hey I hate to break to ya but your Koran is a cheap knock to the Gnostic Bible. You see, your "prophet" actually got the koran not from Archangel Gabriel,but Gnostic heretics that were escaping persecution from the Orthodox Christians in Byzantine Empire who manage to make their way to Mecca, in fact that was only form of "Christianity" that was in Mecca at time. Also I read your "holy book" and looked back at the Gnostic bible, it does have traces of Gnostic in it.
SethNemah 1 month ago
Using a picture in a school yr book is an unfortunate example as there is no picture of what Jesus looked like. Perhaps semitic is too vague. Of course true Christians don't want war but war is being perpetrated by nations. Some say it's war in the name of terror and others say it's really religous denomination. It disgusts me when people r stoned to death for seemingly frivolous reasons but it is also morally culpable for Texas to inject poison into the veins of prisoners but for better reasons
2036asteroid 11 months ago
@2036asteroid His example isn't about what Jesus looked like. He's saying when we talk about certain aspects that the God of the Bible and the god of Islam may have in common it might appear as though we are basically the same or at least quite similar, but when you really look at what they believe and what we as believe, especially about the Godhead, Jesus as the perfect God-man, and His propitiatory death on the cross, and resurrection.
There are irreconcilable differences.
Grace & Peace.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
if i heard Piper right, he said that Muslims cannot have knowledge of the true God like that of Christians...if that's the case, then how would we account Romans 1?...all people know the true God either Muslims or Christians...it is exactly this knowledge that non-Christians deny...man apart from Jesus sins against his better knowledge of the true God through his reason and philosophical formulation...
24arcel 1 year ago
@24arcel Man naturally knows about God through the revelation of creation, but Piper's point is that we can't come together with Muslims in worship because they deny the perfect revelation of God in that they deny the deity of Christ, and His sacrifice for the sin's of the world... meaning that they do indeed worship a different god.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
this video emphasized the unique distinction of Christianity and that is worthy of appreciation...however, watching this video leads me to think that there is nothing in common between Muslims and Christians...both similarity and distinction must be maintained to avoid confusion and arrogance...ours is humility for it is only grace that makes the difference between us and them...
24arcel 1 year ago
Don't you beleive it is okay to share a love of God and a dialouge about God (even if that dialouge is respectful debate) but at the same time disagree about the nature of God?
MrDynomutt 1 year ago
This is the solid, true Gospel (thanks John Piper)- Muslims, repent & believe, God's forgiveness is offered only in Christ- His holiness will burn up all your good deeds/deen on the last day because justification can only come through Him, and the way He has provided, Christ crucified & risen. Its historical fact- repent of your sins & believe that in Christ you will be forgiven and given a new heart- THIS IS THE GOSPEL people.
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
I just hate propaganda...
raduking 1 year ago
save to favorites, ^_^ itll come in handy later haha
rodrigoburgos169 1 year ago
Thunderous applause for John Piper and telling the life-giving TRUTH!!!
AppleCinnamonCider 1 year ago
100% TRUE!
bizzarreangel 1 year ago
scribd (dot) com/nb812
DreamsofMajesty 1 year ago
You are all out of your mind! How can you forget, that it's SATAN WHO IS OUR LORD, and in Darkness she binds us! SIEG HEIL SATAN!
agquarx 1 year ago
Nado626 I will only say two words "brain washed" read Romans 8:1 and think about what it's really saying, god bless
paultm7 1 year ago
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God is one
Jesus is a messanger chosen by God
He is NOT a son of God
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
Nado626 1 year ago
God is one
Jesus is a messanger chosen by God
He is NOT a son of God
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
Nado626 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God is one
Jesus is a messanger chosen by God
He is NOT a son of God
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
Nado626 1 year ago
I've benefited so much from this man. He's a godly role model for my generation.
aricandisgood 2 years ago
Praise God! Very good response.
sirmoosa 2 years ago
i was there at ETS during his panel discussion, he did so well
acaval3 2 years ago
so plz stop beying ignorant and read more b4 u judge !
Nado626 2 years ago
Jesus didn't want to die, He HAD to die, to save you and me from eternal damnation. He loved us so much that He did this for us!! We, do not deserve His grace but He did it out of a Godly love for us. He is righteous and true. The only true God. Without Jesus, we would all be doomed. Now with Him we only need to accept Him as our saveiour. Thank you Jesus!
wowwowmomma 2 years ago
Jesus DIDNT DIE he was saved by God the real God who sent Jesus Moses Ibraham and Mohamed to remind ppl and its ppl who CLAIMED and changed the Truth everyone appreciate Jesus and respect him but as a human prophet not GOD !!
coz God is not similar or could be even compared to his human and NOONE can save my except me and my deeds if its good or bad
and there is a question if u killed someone will blame jesus and say wtever he is gonna save me!!! its u who is responsible 4 ur deeds no1 else
Nado626 2 years ago
We're all sinners. For all have come short of the glory of God. Also:
you were talking about the Shema
"Hear o Israel the Lord our God is One"
well there's a book called the Zohar which is a commentary on the Torah written before jesus that makes this comment on that Very Scripture."Hear, O Israel, Adonai Eloheinu Adonai is one. These three are one. How can the three Names be one? Only through the perception of faith; in the vision of the Holy Spirit, in the beholding of the hidden eye alone.
whtjdwo 2 years ago
So it is with the mystery of the threefold Divine manifestations designated by Adonai Eloheinu Adonai—three modes which yet form one unity."1
whtjdwo 2 years ago
@Nado626 Who then is the word that is God and the word that became flesh in John chapter 1? It is Jesus who was and is God!
duckiesdad 2 years ago
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"Say 'He is God "Allah in arabic", The One and Only. Allah. the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Nado626 2 years ago
Jesus died, indeed, and he rose up from the dead in the third day. He claimed to be the Messiah, witch is the "Father of eternity" and would rule forever (Isaiah 9:6-7), a thing that only God himself can accomplish.
The other interesting thing is Koran talks about Jesus' Injil, witch comes from evangelion, the good news, and those good news are the definitive forgiveness in Jesus Christ for those who seek the righteousness of God. It's the new alliance (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
God bless you.
tiagotrinidad 2 years ago
nado626 does God have the ability to enter into His creation if He choose to? and why?
aburocko 2 years ago
my answer :
watch?v=CJzuJ5O3qig&feature=PlayList&p=432111AA1DC3F2A5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3
Nado626 2 years ago
Sorry, that link is not doing anything for me.
Plus, is this "your" answer?
My question is a very simple one, is it not?
aburocko 2 years ago
Christianity as dictated through the Holy Bible teaches that Jesus (as quoted by himself) was the son of man, son of god, i am a christian, but i do not believe he is god incarnate ... your deeds cannot save you from damnation, because you have sinned before and broke a commandment at some point, Bible says: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), there for "God so loved the world that he sent his son so thet he who believes in him shall not perish but have life".
ajgYT09 1 year ago
Jesus never said im God ..!! also he is NOT a son of God ..he is a messanger and chosen from God to wake his people up and covey a message that God is ONE... but as usual they shifted and lie on him to direct people from submitting to the only God to worship a human beying..
how typical
La ILLAh ELa Allah Mohamed Rasol Allah
Nado626 1 year ago
@Nado626 Jesus did not have to say "I am God"; he made it abundantly clear in his actions, which included Specific miracles like walking on water, that he intended to specifically communicate that he was God; the Bible says in Isaiah that only GOD treads on the waves of the sea -- Jesus made a profound statement of being God by walking on water. There are dozens upon dozens of examples like this.
MatthewMcIntyre321 1 year ago
@MatthewMcIntyre321
just clear your mind and think... why jesus "as u think he is God" could die!! why he just didn kill those who tortured him with just one glance cause if he was God or the creator, then he cannot be killed by his creation it doesnt make any sense!!
and as for walkin on water those are miracles we muslim read it and know it coz its in Qur;an u can read sura MARY in Qur;an it will tell u the whole story of Mary and jesus.
Nado626 1 year ago
@Nado626 You do err...not knowing God's word.
firstdance2000 1 year ago
@Nado626 Jesus was crucified by His Father's design, in the form of a man, because only a man could atone for the sins of mankind. You're right, it doesn't make any sense! But that's God's design- 'His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts'. Repent & believe that Christ died for your sins. Without the blood of Jesus covering your soul, you will never have forgiveness from the Father and will face Christ's wrath on that day, it is written...
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
@UnrealHelix
Thnx for the explanation, now i can kill my jerk co worker he really irritates me!! u said all my sins are clear and Jesus died for my sins!!! oooh plzzzzzzzz
we muslim luv jesus and respect him as a prophet and a word from God with no father and he has nothing to do wiz wtever u guys saying about him
thnx
Nado626 1 year ago
@Nado626 All I have to say is repent & believe. God wants you to know Him intimately and only through Christ can you know your Creator. Religious knowledge will not get you into Heaven. If you knew how HOLY & righteous God truly is, you would realise that nothing you can do can atone for your sins- someone had to die for you to be forgiven. Thats the Gospel- please believe it & be saved
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
@UnrealHelix
Gods wrath or Christs wrath? On the day of Judgement will Christ judge me or the father, or will they both get together and talk it out - wait they are ONE? Does God create a universe then enter it and is bounded by time and space? the limitless god restricts himself to the laws of his own universe he created? Or does he make a son or is the son really him but he calls him Son but this son is a human coming out of of the womb like me and you? Also goes to the washroom? God? wat?
furnis1 1 year ago
@furnis1 You have alot of questions man...in the Bible we are told that those who aren't born of the Spirit can't understand the things of the Spirit. This has proved true bcos I thought most Biblical stuff was foolish & contradictory until I was born again by conviction through the Gospel. John Piper and other guys have alot of knowledge, but trust me they don't have the power to make you see God clearly, and until you're born again there is no way you can possibly understand the Trinity
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
@UnrealHelix thanks, thats cool. here is a simple question - You think you can point to me to a reference of the word and definition of "trinity" in the bible - so that I can see what it means?
furnis1 1 year ago
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@furnis1 Yeah, check 1 John 5:7-8 which says:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Being a latterly applied theological term, there's obviously no mention of the word Trinity in the Bible, but I think the above scripture speaks for itself.
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
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@furnis1 Yeah, check 1 John 5:7-8 which says:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Being a latterly applied theological term, there's obviously no mention of the word 'Trinity' in the Bible, but I think the above scripture speaks for itself.
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
@furnis1 If I may join in. Here are some references for you.
The Old Testament does not explicitly describe God as a trinity. Rather, with its references to God's Spirit (e.g., Gen. 1:2), its use of “us/our” for God (e.g., Gen. 1:26), and its indications or hints of a divine Messiah (e.g., Ps. 110:5; Isa. 9:6; cf. Ezek. 34:15, 23), it lays the groundwork for the fuller declaration of divine triunity that is found in the New Testament (Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 12:4–6; 2 Cor. 13:14).
Guslund 1 year ago
@furnis1 Rhetorical questions will not lead you to know him, especially if they are already rooted in disbelief. Ask these questions from your heart, and open yourself to the mere "possibility" that God is alive and will answer your legitimate questions. This is what I did a few years ago, and sure enough my questions were answered explicitly by God, to my heart. It convinced me so fully that Christ, the Son of God, rose from the dead that I have committed my life to him.
dwarfcakesoccer 11 months ago
God is one
Jesus is a messanger chosen by God
He is NOT a son of God
He is a son of Mary peace be upon her she was virgin and gave birth to Jesus so its a miracle like Adam who has no father and mother who was created by God the ONE ..
so its ok for God to create wteva Wants he says be so it is ..
JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD HE IS A MESSANGER FROM GOD CHOSEN TO SEND A MESSAGE..
Nado626 1 year ago
@Nado626 Jesus DID in fact also answer specifically that he was God, when asked by Pilate before his crucifixion: Matthew 26:63-64 "...The high priest said to him [(Jesus)], 'I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.' 'Yes, it is as you say,' Jesus replied." Can't get much more clear than that.
MatthewMcIntyre321 1 year ago
@MatthewMcIntyre321 One slight minor correction -- Pilate of course was the Roman Governor -- as the passage makes clear, it was the high priest that asked Jesus if he was "the Son of God" (thus meaning God himself -- Son of God = God incarnate, God in the personage of Christ).
MatthewMcIntyre321 1 year ago
@MatthewMcIntyre321
it means that Moses also is God as he threw his steak and turned it to a snake, and he was able to shove the sea to escape with his ppl.PLEASE!!!!!
Nado626 1 year ago
And one more thing:
the new testament is a more historically reliable account of jesus' life than the Quran because it matches eyewitness accounts of Jesus' resurrection months after he died, and they were written a couple of years after his death. Legends can't wipe out a chunk of history in a few months. Islam contradicts history and the gospel and makes claims about Jesus 600 years after his death. That's like me opening my history book and changing 15th century's history..
whtjdwo 2 years ago
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Nado626 2 years ago
Muslims DO NOT reject jesus peace be upon him they reject the idea of Jesus beying god .. its only one God who created Jesus Moses Adam Mohamed me and you
Jesus is not a son of God as God has no sons or daughters and he is not in a compare to his creatures
how can a god get killed by his own creations!!!
in deuteronomy 6:4 it said "our God our Lord is ONE"
Mark 12:29 "hear o Israel the Lord our God is ONE
Nado626 2 years ago
islam is the only way of life.(*TRUTH*)
islam714 2 years ago
islam eats it's own children and is a wickedness before The Creator.
Inga4020 2 years ago
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This is a disgrace. John piper is promoting a kind of religious phobia or bias. He is sounding like an Islamic fundamentalist who will not hear anything but his own beliefs. Common ground means they begin at the same point of god openness. You don't come to a table of spiritual reconciliation fighting for YOUR position. You have to start at a common ground and if you disagree you disagree. Don't be afraid to talk peacefully. Classic conservative christian fundamentalist. Phobics.
dave1122drum 2 years ago
Christ is the centre to Christian faith and its meant to be a centre in Christian Life. Without Christ as being the fundemental source of Life, love, justice you don't have true Christianity. Christianity is All about Christ.
damianos1122 2 years ago 2
Dave, you should listen from 7:20 to about 7:48. You've completely mischaracterized what John piper is trying to convey. Christians and Muslims should definitely have open and "peaceful" discussions about their respective conceptions of God, but that's not the point. The point is that the Christian doctrine and Islamic doctrine are at complete variance with one another with respect to their beliefs about God, more specifically Jesus.
chigaeboy 2 years ago
Sure both religions share common ground in that they believe in the supernatural, but both have different conceptions as to the properties and attributes of god. The point John Piper is making is that we should not use convoluted language to pretend that Christianity and Islam are essentially the same, which is clearly is not. However, we should definitely encourage open, "honest," and truthful discussion about the differences and validity of the two.
chigaeboy 2 years ago
God Bless John Piper
yshuasgathering 2 years ago
Ditto!
SAOProductions1955 2 years ago
Sad that all Muslims are going to hell, maybe if they looked at their ridiculously flawed and irrational religion theyd do the right thing and research other religions and see christianity is the correct religion.
Xavier350 2 years ago
first of all, Christianity is not a "religion." It is to be a relationship with God through Jesus where we work every day to live out the example that Jesus' life gave us. Every judgemental statement that "we" as Christians utter is a slap in the face of everything Jesus taught us
svedishmafia 2 years ago 2
Jesus said: "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). So Jesus himself said for us to judge righteously...
Also he said judge not less ye be judged meaning if you are sinning that sin dont judge another sinner of that sin (I am not a muslim so i can judge em), so its fine to judge according to the bible and Jesus, if tis righteous judgement.
Xavier350 2 years ago
actually, judge not lest ye be judged has nothing to do with how you put it...that's totally out of context. What it means is that we are not to judge others because we are equally guilty of sin...sin is sin...whether we lie or whether we kill someone. God sees no difference. God is the judge, not us. Our duty here is to love as Jesus loved...he does not call us to be judges. Before taking the speck out of someone else's eye take the log out of your own...don't forget that verse, either
svedishmafia 2 years ago
Its not out of context, you read it wrong and out of context.
Xavier350 2 years ago
just curious...what's your education level in this area?
svedishmafia 2 years ago
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a matter of resting from your work and your effort to do what Jesus did. Jesus came to show us we are incapable of doing what he did; Living a perfectly righteous life. No amount of effort to "live" his example will result in anything more than failure on your part. It is impossible for you to accomplish. It took a Divine Savior to do for you and for me what we were unable to do for ourselves. Working every day is only going to get you closer to hell. Eph.2:8-10.
SAOProductions1955 2 years ago
Oh that we would all have such a strong conviction and knowledge of the truth. Thank you John!
smegatron444 2 years ago
Jesus is my Lord and Saviour. He is the Only Way. Talk to muslims OK, but don't sell out your faith. JESUS CHRIST is the Lord of All.
skycaptain665 2 years ago 2
I don't know much about John Piper. I commend this guy for speaking out for what he believes here. Some Christians are wishy washy and sit on the fence. Like he says, 'BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU LEND YOUR SUPPORT TO'!
Stand up and be counted.
skycaptain665 2 years ago 19
Amen. Piper is legit!
therealdrag0 2 years ago
PRAISE God. We must pray for clear discernment. Many angels of light abound with messages of love & tolerance.
When will we realize that satan nevers comes in our thoughts or hearts as satan? He always uses a disguise.
Christ is our Big Brother. (Hebrews 2:11) What must a thief do before robbing us of our treasure? He must create distractions, divert our attention away from Brother - convince us we are safe w/out Him. The thief is a strong man, but he knows our Brother is stronger.
fruitofspirit 2 years ago
I love Muslim people - their children play with mine at parks & this is a beautiful experience. As Piper says, I certainly wish them no harm. Christ said, "He who lives by the sword dies by it."
But if the only way to ensure peace is by denying the complete & absolute LORDSHIP of Yeshua, Jesus Christ - that is not a treasure worth having, but fool's gold. And only a fool would have it.
Piper's analogy to the yearbook picture is excellent. There is only one truth. And it is written in red.
fruitofspirit 2 years ago 11
@fruitofspirit Solid.
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
@fruitofspirit Very good reply. I think it draws a beautiful picture that your children play with Muslim children in the parks. This is the simplicity of love as Christ taught it. And you are sooooo right about the true treasure of knowing Christ as the complete and absolute Son of God. Thanks for sharing your heart publicly.
dwarfcakesoccer 11 months ago
powerful!
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
God bless. Jesus loves you no matter ho u are or what uve done.
daranac2 2 years ago
Wrong God is angry with the wicked everyday! Psalm 7:11
jaykarroll 2 years ago 3
parents can get angry with there kids and still love them.
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
MatthewHudghton 2 years ago 3
do not trust the religious as most are wolves in sheeps clothing but in the case of muslims they are wolves outright so how can they be trusted moreso?
newportvtman 3 years ago
I would agree with the statement that Yahweh is completely different that Allah. And the idea that we can find a credible common ground between them is lunacy. Jesus is Yahweh, Jesus is God and to dance around that statement in fear of losing a potential connection with Islam is flawed. In any situation, we must establish Jesus as first importance and let everything mediate through Him. Inevitably the goal of the Christian response to "A Common Word" has to missional, not just conversational.
jukorama 3 years ago
seems to me, Piper missed the point. A common word is intended to establish grounds for discussing the truths of Christianity/Islam amidst enmity. The two arecertainly very different religions, but document was not meant to be a pulpit for preaching Christ - Christ himself taught through relationships, not by posting documents on temple walls. I usually like Piper... but I think he missed the forest for the trees...
Wheedog30 3 years ago
why did this guy John Piper not organise his convention or common word here you have rightious people in the world trying atlease trying to get heart to together and the last thing we need is his comments or wining honest sorry to say that but it hurt when people are trying its the beginning of a good cause support it let it grow instead you putting your two senses on youtube i gues thats why your on youtube and not on stage with them cause they are making a change not you its blessed be the
shakurlatif 3 years ago
The fact is, We Christians don't want change, conformity, or universality. Christianity is different than Islam. If we say that we should come together, that nullifies both Islam and Christianity because then we would be saying that there is no absolute truth. Yes, we should be open to discussion, but my God, the Christian God, Yahweh, is totally different than Allah. Our salvation is totally different as well. There is no common word, and we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking there is.
jkyleb 3 years ago
Have it Yahweh jkyleb . There are as many Gods as civilisations . It is a natural Human response to create a mythology in order explain the gaps in our Knowledge. The problem arises when you try to marry ancient belief systems to modern Science. You can only present biblical accounts as allegories of the widest order to be credible. The fundamentalist viewpoint has been clearly destroyed by the evidence available. Perhaps the idea that truth is absolute is a problem too
ilikezappa 3 years ago
Thats why you choose the religion that sounds the most convincing. Rather than gamble with atheism. It sounds over simplified I know, but deep down you must know that you are taking a huge risk.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
Jesus Christ is the SAVIOR.
BonzaiJakab 3 years ago
There is one difference between secular humanitarianism and christian missionary work, it is the gospel. they both do social programs, but the christian does it one step further he preaches to the masses,because he/she wants them to have an opportunity to be saved. its much heinous, if the christian kept the goodnews to himself, rather than sharing it, secular workers however, prioritize on doing good works in the name of democracy or human rights
psyknai 3 years ago
greetings! I have brought good news! We have science and learning now , which has convincingly consigned religious superstition to the dustbin of medieval falsehood. You no longer have to consider priests as wearing the badge of honour. Rather, question their assertions and ask them to provide some evidence or be still. Dont let them tell you you can cheat death. You cannot.Put them in the same box as tarot cards , astrologers , mediums , republicans and amways salesmen. RUBBISH.
ilikezappa 3 years ago
then why are there scientist (who are doctors) who still believe the Gospel???
cougarsrule45 3 years ago
You got me . Don`t think many of them take the fundamentalist view as you can clearly witness evolution in micro organisms
ilikezappa 3 years ago
Thats why you choose the religion that sounds the most convincing. Rather than gamble with atheism. It sounds over simplified I know, but deep down you must know that you are taking a huge risk.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
I suggest that most people adhere to the religion that is prevalent in the place they grew up. Born in Kansas? Likely to be Christian. Tibet? Buddha your man. England? you worship the Rain God.
Risk what? Damnation? Only if you are right. Which you aren`t. If I said Frankie the giant Penguin will judge you when you die , would you worry? You are peddling the same idea with the same lack of evidence and same credibility. Dont mean to be mean, but, pull the other one.
ilikezappa 3 years ago
Now I see your second point in which you do address what I said. 1st of all, there are probably more real Christians in Asia now than in Atheist Europe and Materialistic America (despite persecution of protestantism in China) So I disagree with your first point.
Secondly I see you are attributing the same likelihood of deity to a made up entity (frankie the giant penguin) than to a historical figure, Jesus. Keep setting up that straw man and knocking him down. Shows how weak ur argument is.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
I am only saying that it is within your ability to assess the different religions, research them and find which one sounds most credible (I would advise you that Frankie the giant penguin would fall on the low end of that scale). If you don't choose a religion, you are risking eternity. If I am wrong I still had a very fulfilled life and I my life ends at death, oh well. Have you truely researched Christianity (and not just from hypocritical messages and messengers)?
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
Jesus may well have been a historical figure friend , but all the supernatural events attributed to him have no credible evidence to back them up , and if you think they do , dont become a lawyer or a scientist. If you tell me , in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary , that the Biblical creation account is accurate , that you will live after you die , that Evolution is somehow wrong , that man was created whole etc etc then you and Frankie are on the same page. No straw man pal
ilikezappa 3 years ago
Besides , I have worked on the door of a few clubs so St Peter will let me in. It is the code between Doormen. Even though I think the owner is horrible and has some weird ideas , it does have a bar right? How can it be heaven with no beer? And roads with no speed limits? Blues music? Surely no children pissing everyone off? WHAT ? you dont have a single plumber? Actually not surprised.
ilikezappa 3 years ago
All I'm saying is that the likelihood of the Jesus being who the Bible says he is high taking into account many factors including prophecy (for example psalm 22...specifically vs. 16 which is my favorite example of amazing prophecy)the fact that the disciples and apostles who spent so much time with him all died excruiating horrible deaths for not denying his deity (why would they endure torture for a lie?) the way that this religion has stood the test of time and the cohesion of scripture etc..
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
You keep bringing up evolution, well let me ask you a question: Why would God create the world looking brand new (since evolution points to an old universe)? Isn't it logical to think that since he created adam as a fully mature man and not a baby, that he would create the earth as he wanted to, even with the appearance of age? Now you may reject that point but the point is that it's all how you look at it. Again I reject your strawman since you compared the likelihood of Jesus to a penguin.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
People died excrutiating deaths because they believed in Adolf Hitler. What is your point?
Astrology has "stood the test of time" again , is this a good enough reason for accepting that it is valid?
On what basis do you dismiss my contention that the world was created by a giant penguin?
Can you disprove it ? Of course not.
ilikezappa 3 years ago
You can invent all kinds of fanciful theories about how everything that is , came to be.
Scientists are quite happy to say "WE DONT KNOW" on the basis that IT IS THE TRUTH. And filling the gaps in our knowledge with crappy bronze age stories that are in complete contrast with the evidence available to us is ok if you are an aborigine , but if you are an educated westerner , it is slapping the face of all those brilliant scientists who fought hard to free us from religious dogma.
REPENT
ilikezappa 3 years ago
You didnt address my theory of God making the world as it is (not as a brand new looking earth, whatever that would have looked like). Yes that is a convenient theory because it fits in with my world view,but after studying theology, history, biblical prophecy, etc. I can comfortably embrace Christianity. I would never dream of even thinking about adopting an atheistic worldview. What a risk to take, and either way my life is very fulfilling as a Bible believing Christian. better hope ur right.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
What , god said " I will create the Earth complete with all the evidence to suggest that I DIDN`T so people will conclude that I don`t exist Ahhahahaha what a trickster I am. Lets put all these fossils here and see who believes in me now!" Convenient? You said it buddy. I am losing the will to live...
If that is the best you can come up with then good luck and keep away from sharp objects.
ilikezappa 3 years ago
God should have made Adam as a zygote according to you. Then he wouldn't be "tricking" anyone. Ill accept ur criticism of my theory when u tell me how it would be possible to create a world made of material that appeared to be 0 years old. wow really smart theory there. keep insulting me,thats all atheists resort to.they like setting up strawmen arguments saying things like"sky daddy" so it makes them feel smart.If I'm right, I'll be right for eternity, you for 50 years till u die. (or whenever)
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
According to me , ( and most of the nobel prize winning biologists , who you dismiss in such a cavalier way in favour of people like Macarthur who has 1% of their brains) God didn`t make Adam. Adam is mythical character in a book and God is a concept Mankind invented to explain gaps in Human Knowledge. There are thousands of them in Human Culture. You just happen to believe in one of them.
I dont believe God created the world is my answer to your "Theory". I thought that was obvious?
ilikezappa 3 years ago
Al Gore and Paul Krugman are also nobel prize winners. Doesn't say much. There are tens of thousands of Bible believing scientists, and many of the most famous scientists in history believed in the God of the Bible. Many religions were made up by man, I believe Christianity is the most convincing example of one that was not.You cannot ignore the prophecy and so many other examples I've already said that point to its validity.Your arguments are not even close to convincing (don't mean to be rude)
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
I will bet you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Nobel prize winning scientists who share you fundamentalist view.
You find me an eminent geologist who believes the world is 3 minutes old , or whatever claptrap goes on in Macarthurland. Or a top paleontologist who thinks dinosaurs coexisted with man. yeah right! ps All religions were made up by men , except shopping , which was created by women.
ilikezappa 3 years ago
Well your bet enforces my view that you should not be betting on things (such as God not existing), because you most definitely lose this bet on the nobel prize winners. (triple w)(dot)adherents(dot)com(slash)people(slash)100(underscore)Nobel(dot)html
Make sure you spell "Nobel" with a capital N.
Touche on the shopping point.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
On the list of the 30 Nobel laureates for science, how many are fundamentalists? The first one listed is Einstein who definitely was not andis often misquoted by people who have a religious agenda in order to try and support their ideas with scientific credibility. I bet if you ask All of those people they would say the Earth is 4.5 Billion years old. I am not suggesting that no scientist believes in a creator , but 99.9of them will tell you that Adam and Eve is a story .
ilikezappa 3 years ago
So , I think the bet (which is a pint of Guinness by the way ) is mine.
You may drink it for me. I have to go to Italy for a week now so CIAO and happy Xmas all you Christians
ilikezappa 3 years ago
If ur definition of fundamentalist is that u believe in Jesus's death and resurrection to save us from our sins then a good portion of the list would b "fundamentalist".Ill leave you with a quote from Max Planck,a Christian and the father of quantum physics:Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words:'Ye must have faith.'It is a quality which the scientist cannot dispense with.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
but why do scientists exist? they are researchers who ceaselessly find laws and facts about nature and how things work. For all of time, as we know it, scientists have been trying to get their minds around how things work. but really, they have never concluded their work. there is just so many things to observe and learn and discover. So how can that be? that a world "evolved" from nothing, not created, can be so immense and unmeasurable?
joomyjoo 3 years ago
You got me joomyo . Know one knows , which is why John Macarthur can sell some people a line. Mr Sticky my interpretation of the word Fundamentalist would be someone who sees no room for metaphor or allegory in the Bible and takes everything literally. The Garden of Eden had flower beds and a compost heap , complete with a talking serpent. Noah really pulled of an incredible feat of Marine Engineering and fedex`d some Kangaroos over from Australia. "Faith" does not mean taking a simpleton view
ilikezappa 3 years ago
"Sell some people a line"? Try again. Atheists are the biggest line givers of all time "I don't believe in a giant penguin either". Wow what a stellar argument, that really bamboozled me.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
It is my witty and charming way of suggesting that because I cannot disprove your contention that there is a God , then your idea has validity , which is a logical fallacy. You cannot disprove the Penguin either , which also has no evidence to support its existence. Sorry to bamboozle you sticky! No harm intended....
ilikezappa 3 years ago
I know you think it's witty and charming, but seriously it's an amateurish and weak argument that alot of atheists resort to. Classic strawman, we've been down that road already. The probablility of the God of the Bible exisiting and the all powerfull giant penguin are not equal. There is no DNA evidence for the existance of God or the giant penguin true. But to incessantly try to portray them both as equal in terms of probablity is frankly retarded, and below your level of thinking.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
I know you never cited Einstein . I was just using him as another example of a scientist who is misrepresented by people with a religious agenda , and I was using the penguin example to demonstrate your logical fallacy in suggesting that as I can`t disprove God , you somehow claim that believing in him is justified. It is only my opinion that the penguin is about as likely as a flying pig , or Jehovah. No-one has been able to give me anything tangible to make me think otherwise.
ilikezappa 3 years ago
we've already been down this exact same road, and my response to your comment here hasn't changed. truce.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
Ok Sticky . Enjoy your day. I am going to get the 360 out and drive like a nutter see you
ilikezappa 3 years ago
It consitently amazes me how atheists can be so knowledgeable about the concept of cause and effect, and yet deny there is a God. And we who believe in the Bible are the "simpletons". Scientists have been working overtime for thousands of years trying to decode the laws of the universe. So who coded it? Max Planck the founder of quantam physics echoed these sentiments. I guess you'll conveniently rule out the concept of cause and effect which you cited before.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
Tens of thousands?! Bullshit. Where did you get that information from? You're completely making things up here. As science has advanced over the course of history, so has the proportion of scientists who reject the Bible. Is Judaism made up then? What about Zoroastrianism or Mithraism? Ultimately, Christianity incorporates all of these.
tadamcochran 3 years ago
Judaism incorporates the Torah which is the first 5 books of the Bible, but then it digresses into the classic relgion of "get to heaven if you are a "good person"" which I reject on many different grounds. Zora'ism and mith'ism are complete bull compared to the Christianity's compellingness. Christianity may have hints or similarties here and there, but when it comes to God himself (the perfect being) sacrificing himself for the sins of mankind, there is only 1 religion to choose from.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
So was Jesus of David's lineage or was he of God's? The Bible indicates both. He has to be of David's to fulfill prophecy of the OT, but then if that is the case he is born with original sin, which kind of negates the whole sinless life idea. So which is it? Also, if God is perfect, why does he have such an attitude adjustment from the OT to the NT? Perfection needs no change, right?
tadamcochran 3 years ago
Jesus was both fully man and fully God at the same time. He limited himself in submission to the Father in terms of what power he used and when while he was on the earth. So while he came from the line of David, he was also born of a virgin. It is an excellent question. As for how God acted in the old testament vs. the new, this is a very broad issue with many differnt points and one that shouldn't be confined to a youtube comment box. I would suggest googling "Dispensationalism".
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
How can he be born of a virgin and still be of the lineage of David (a human)? That makes no sense whatsoever. And if he is both fully god and fully human, why does he in one gospel ask, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Is he talking to himself?
tadamcochran 3 years ago
He is in the Lineage through Mary.Mary was the daughter of Heli, who was the son of Matthat, who was the son of Levi, and so on back to David. There r other women besides Mary who were in the lineage as well.
Just like the trinity makes no sense right? Also being able to predict in Psalms that Jesus would be crucified (Romany style) before that was even invented makes no sense either. I'll tell you what definitely wouldn't make sense, would be for Jesus discples to undergo torture for a lie.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
In both Matthew and Luke Jesus's lineage to David is through Joseph. And in Luke 3:23 it lists Joseph as the son of Heli. Mary and Joseph, brother and sister? In Psalms 22:16 it only makes reference to piercing hands and feet and does not specify any particular style of crucifixion. 1+1+1=1? Christian math? Lastly, are you suggesting that people of other 'false' religions don't endure torture, maiming and death in the name of that religion? It happens all the time. Terrible argument there.
tadamcochran 3 years ago
Joseph was the husband of Mary, therefore Jesus was in the line of david. As for Psalm 22, you have got to be kidding me. First of all 22:16 is only one verse in the chapter that makes clear reference to the cruxifixion of Christ. Look at vs. 1,7,14,15,16,17,18,31. Open your eyes, this is obviously not King David speaking about himself. David never had his enemies pierce his hands and feet. They never cast lots for his clothing as he was mocked. It is the account of the crucifixion foretold.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
No, it says that Joseph is the son of Jacob in Matt. and of Heli in Luke (which is correct?). That's what it says. And it doesn't say son in law. It says this in two places. Is this another instance where I should 'open my mind' and create new meanings out of very simple statements?
tadamcochran 3 years ago
There are discrepcies throughout the two lists and they are different because Luke is written from Nathan (son of David) and Matthew from Solomon (also son of David. In regards to Jospeph's father, it was Jacob. Heli or Eli was the father of Mary (and father in law of Joseph). So in this case you just need to do a little homework, this was a good question.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
I would seriously encourage you to read that chapter (psalm 22) with an open mind in its entirity and think about how those verses could not be from David's experience. Of course those from false religions endure torture. But I guarentee you they wouldn't if they KNEW it was all a big lie. The disciples witnessed and wrote about their time with Jesus and all the miracles they witnessed. They were tortured and killed for not recanting what they had seen and heard. Your cite a false comparison.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
So read psalm 22 with lots of imagination then? Sure. There's still no specific reference to crucifixion. Why isn't the crown of thorns mentioned? The disciples wrote? Read Acts 4:13. Peter and John were illiterate as were most if not all of the disciples, as they were common men who had no need for writing or reading for that matter. You're confusing knowledge with belief. People may suffer for what they think is true whether it is true or not. The disciples were no different.
tadamcochran 3 years ago
Matt'w was a tax collector,Luke a physcician John a fisherman,Mark unknown although is known 2 have used a scribe to record the gospels.Again u r ignoring that the account in Psalm 22 would b lunacy 2 attribute 2 King David. r u going to ingore all the other verses I pointed out that:1.couldnt have been David and 2.describe the crucifixion?At this point the conversation is discouraging cuz I feel u r more concerned with winning an argument than dealing with the objection in a forthright manner.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
I know there is no winning this argument. You will have a convoluted explanation for just about any of the discrepancies. I guess I'm just curious to see how convoluted they get. I've read the other verses you pointed out and it's quite a bit of poetic imagery, but no real description of the crucifixion unless you start inventing a subtext and reading things into it in the light of the NT.
tadamcochran 3 years ago
I literally dont know how u can read Psalm 22 and not see a suffering savior (couldn't be David). The New Testement is constantly referring back 2 the psalms as prophecying what was 2 come, and in this case it was so utterly compelling to me (casting lots,pierced hands and feet, mocking/hurling insults, band of evil men encircle me, bones out of joint which is what happens as you hang on the cross, dire thirst, people stare and gloat over me etc). I guess its agree to disagree time now. Cheers.
stick1to2the3issue 3 years ago
Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I appreciate you not doing any name calling or making personal attacks. I've been in other discussions along these same lines and that kind of thing always seems to be involved. All the best!
tadamcochran 3 years ago